In This Episode…

I sit down with Alex Markley and Susie Reed from Markley Bros. Entertainment. We get to catch up on what they have been up to building and creating new content. We get to learn about how they do what they do creating fun and entertaining content.

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/lancelots-roundtable/donations

Welcome Back to Lancelot's Roundtable Season 3.

In This Episode…

I'm happy to welcome Romy Nos to the Roundtable. Years ago when I was about to finish College, Romy and I took the plunge and decided to take a trip to Europe for a month. In this episode we re-count what lead us to make the decision to go on this adventure, the countries we visited and our experiences on our adventure.

Episode Minutes:

• 00:04:20 - Welcoming Guest
• 00:07:49 - Romy and I talk about how our friendship started
• 00:08:49 - When we started talking about going on a Europe trip
• 00:10:42 - Romy’s mindset leading up to leaving for the trip
• 00:12:40 - Romy and I talk about in intense change from college to full time job life
• 00:17:40 - Starting to prepare for the trip
• 00:22:10 - Romy’s thoughts around friendship and risking in friendships
• 00:26:27 - Romy talks about losing a friend and the pain of that loss
• 00:29:46 - We discuss continuing to prepare for the trip
• 00:33:52 - We arrive in Europe and our memories in the first city we visited, Paris
• 00:42:27 - Romy’s favorite memory from Paris
• 00:46:06 - We go to Rome
• 00:54:17 - Off to the Italian Cinque Terre
• 01:05:51 - Our next stop in Zurich, Switzerland
• 01:07:00 - Staying in a hostel for the first time
• 01:13:57 - Dealing with some conflict and expensive gummy bears in Zurich
• 01:25:00 - Arriving in London, Lance is detained at the airport
• 01:32:00 - Conflict in Madrid, Spain
• 01:35:18 - Off to Edinburgh, Scotland
• 01:38:51 - Lance’s closing thoughts
• 01:40:56 - Romy’s closing thoughts

RESOURCE LINKS

Places and things we mention in the show:

1. Tour de Espana (Which is actually called ‘La Vuelta’
2. Museum in Madrid, Spain

You can listen to Lancelot's Roundtable on all your favorite listener sites.

https://www.lancelotsroundtable.com

Episode Length: 1 hour 46 minutes

Thanks so much for tuning in. Join us again next week for another episode!

DOWNLOAD OPTIONS

• Direct Download: Right-click on the download area located in the player and click “Save As” for a direct download.
• Listen and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player for free!
• If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review so more people can find the podcast.

"It's gonna happen, people are gonna be evil, people are going to do do evil things... but if someone doesn't do something, it's just going to be that much worse" - Jake

Connect with us! Leave a comment. We love talking to, and getting to know our listeners!

Follow and share Lancelot's Roundtable on Instagram.

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/lancelots-roundtable/donations

Welcome Back to Lancelot's Roundtable Season 3.

In This Episode…

I'm happy to welcome George Loukoumis to the Roundtable. George Immigrated to the United States years ago from Greece. We are joined by special guest co-host Cal Militaru who I interviewed in Episode 8. In this episode we talk with George about his experience moving to Findlay, Ohio to go to college, meeting his wife there, and ultimately moving to Columbus, Ohio where he and his wife built a life.

Episode Minutes:

• 00:03:08 - Introducing guest and guest co-host
• 00:04:21 - George decides to come to America
• 00:08:19 - Did George plan on staying in the States
• 00:11:10 - What it’s like living n Findlay, Ohio and going to college
• 00:14:42 - Life in Columbus and transitioning fro college to adult life
• 00:16:18 - Getting married young
• 00:19:18 - George exploring Careers
• 00:21:01 - Losing a job unexpectedly
• 00:28:18 - Who you work with\for can greatly affect your workplace
• 00:42:00 - Adapting to life in college
• 00:51:31 - Becoming a United States Citizen
• 00:58:16 - Some deep reflections from Cal
• 01:11:47 - Closing thoughts

RESOURCE LINKS

You can listen to Lancelot's Roundtable on all your favorite listener sites.

https://www.lancelotsroundtable.com

Episode Length: 1 hour 19 minutes

Thanks so much for tuning in. Join us again next week for another episode!

DOWNLOAD OPTIONS

• Direct Download: Right-click on the download area located in the player and click “Save As” for a direct download.
• Listen and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player for free!
• If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review so more people can find the podcast.

"It's gonna happen, people are gonna be evil, people are going to do do evil things... but if someone doesn't do something, it's just going to be that much worse" - Jake

Connect with us! Leave a comment. We love talking to, and getting to know our listeners!

Follow and share Lancelot's Roundtable on Instagram.

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/lancelots-roundtable/donations

Welcome Back to Lancelot's Roundtable Season 3.

In This Episode…

I'm joined by local freelance artist Sam Brieck. For this episode I asked Tony Garner and Brandon Jenkins from episode 18 to join as special guest co-hosts. Together we take a deep dive in to Sam's journey in becoming a freelance artist. It's a fascinating story of how Sam has worked to learn, hone and challenge his skills as an artist. We also discuss balancing having a family while working as an artist. I hope you enjoy listening to this episode.

Episode Minutes:

• 00:03:00 - Grief Episode Intro
• 00:04:25 - Sam takes us through how he got started doing art
• 00:06:22 - Sam Goes to Commercial Art Career Center and chooses to embrace the challenge
• 00:12:34 - Tony asks Sam if his creativity got crushed during the experience; Sam talks about the process of get ego and creativity crushed and then how his abilities were re-built
• 00:16:18 - Sam talks about learning art at Columbus College of Art & Design pushing him to expand his skills even further
• 00:20:48 - The importance of being pushed to be better and embracing that challenge
• 00:21:25 - What post college life was like; working some interesting/mundane jobs (toxic job and some chill jobs)
• 00:25:12 - Sam starts Freelance work
• 00:27:32 - Upright Press Jess Hinshaw; doing poster shows and networking
• 00:30:19 - Sam explains screen printing
• 00:37:22 - Sam talks about the art Sam-the-artist does; his art will be on a pen and paper RPG with Wet Ink Games
• 00:39:55 - Sam talks about the difference in creating personal art versus art for work; when you’re art project surprises you
• 00:44:31 - Sam discusses how gratifying it is seeing people getting lost looking at your art
• 00:47:06 - Sam explains his work process; the importance of taking your time in the process and doing the preparation
• 00:52:57 - Sam talks about the different kinds of art he produces (digital/physical) 
• 00:57:19 - Sam gets in to the vulnerability of getting the art out of you and putting it out in to the world
• 01:01:01 - Tony talks about the first time he put an piece of his art in an auction
• 01:03:26 - Tony and Sam discuss ideas around keeping or destroying art that you aren’t happy with; whether or not Sam should consider getting rid of his ancient artwork
• 01:08:40 - How you can find Sam
• 01:19:50 - Sam announces a new big project coming 2023 Holiday Season
• 01:21:01 - Commissioning Sam for some art
• 01:22:14 - Closing/final remarks

RESOURCE LINKS

You can listen to Lancelot's Roundtable on all your favorite listener sites.

https://www.lancelotsroundtable.com

Commercial Art Career Center

Columbus College of Art & Design

Wet Ink Games

Crafting outlaws

CCAD Art Fair

Commercial Art Career Center

Finding/Contacting Sam:

Website - https://www.brieckdraw.com

IG - https://www.instagram.com/brieckdraw/?hl=en

Etsy - https://www.etsy.com/shop/BrieckDraw

Episode Length: 1 hour 27 minutes

Thanks so much for tuning in. Join us again next week for another episode!

DOWNLOAD OPTIONS

• Direct Download: Right-click on the download area located in the player and click “Save As” for a direct download.
• Listen and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player for free!
• If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review so more people can find the podcast.

"It's gonna happen, people are gonna be evil, people are going to do do evil things... but if someone doesn't do something, it's just going to be that much worse" - Jake

Connect with us! Leave a comment. We love talking to, and getting to know our listeners!

Follow and share Lancelot's Roundtable on Instagram.

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/lancelots-roundtable/donations

Welcome Back to Lancelot's Roundtable Season 3.

In This Episode…

My special guests Beau, Maggie, Kim and I dive in to the intense and agonizing topic of grief. Whether or not you've experienced harrowing grief. Whether or not you've experienced the excruciating loss of something dear to you. You are not going to want to miss this episode. On today's Roundtable, we look in to the abyss of grief and try to make some sense of of the deep pain we sometimes must walk through.

Episode Minutes:

• 00:02:40 - Grief Episode Intro
• 00:06:28 - Diving in to grief
• 00:09:00 - Maybe don’t use the phrase ‘at least’
• 00:13:08 - Kim share’s about getting ‘The Call’
• 00:16:55 - Beau shares some of her grief journey
• 00:19:02 - Something Jocko Willink said about what grief can be like
• 00:20:17 - Maggie shares a quote about what grief is like
• 00:21:42 - Maggie talks about the psychological definition of grief and how grief isn’t just related to death. Every loss deserves grief
• 00:23:22 - Any loss (no matter how small) allows us to practice grieving
• 00:25:25 - You need to tell the story as you process grief
• 00:27:21 - Barbara Brown Taylor Quote about relearning how to sit with yucky emotions
• 00:28:58 - Beau shares a story about sitting with, feeling and processing grief\sadness
• 00:31:33 - Maggie talks about taking risk and not avoid the pain and learning how to process feelings
• 00:33:46 - Beau explains Pre-grieving or anticipatory grieving (article?)
• 00:35:13 - We talk about grief, faith, Jesus, anger, bitterness, etc.
• 00:38:02 - Beau explains you can’t always be prepared, sometimes it REALLY just sucks
• 00:45:59 - Grieving for and then forgiving people as a full process
• 00:52:06 - Maggie talks about the importance of validating
• 00:54:10 - Maggie tells us about ‘Core Longings’
• 00:59:26 - Addressing the layers of grief as an individual
• 01:06:00 - Bitterness other negative things and how it affects you when grieving is hard
• 01:12:05 - The importance of learning to fail
• 01:14:41 - Tips for getting out of the ‘quick sand’ of un-ending grief
• 01:19:10 - Ryan Manion does the Marine Marathon for her brother Travis
• 01:23:40 - Closing thoughts, finding the beauty through the road of grief
• 01:30:57 - Maggie is the Executive Director of the Healing Care Center

RESOURCE LINKS

You can listen to Lancelot's Roundtable on all your favorite listener sites.

https://www.lancelotsroundtable.com

Learning to walk in the Dark by Barbara Brown Taylor

theHealingCareCenter.org

Maslow’s Hierarchy of needs - https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html

Jocko Podcast 201 w/ Ryan Manion: "The Knock at the Door"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFAosAUqyH0

Travis Manion Foundation:

https://www.travismanion.org/about-us/tmf-staff-and-board/ryan-manion/

Episode Length: 1 hour 37 minutes

Thanks so much for tuning in. Join us again next week for another episode!

DOWNLOAD OPTIONS

• Direct Download: Right-click on the download area located in the player and click “Save As” for a direct download.
• Listen and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player for free!
• If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review so more people can find the podcast.

"It's gonna happen, people are gonna be evil, people are going to do do evil things... but if someone doesn't do something, it's just going to be that much worse" - Jake

Connect with us! Leave a comment. We love talking to, and getting to know our listeners!

Follow and share Lancelot's Roundtable on Instagram.

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/lancelots-roundtable/donations

Welcome Back to a brand new Season of Lancelot's Roundtable.

In This Episode…

It's the season premier of Season 3. I'm so excited to welcome Master Jon Bennett who taught me Karate. The particular style of karate we trained in - Shorin-Ryu comes from Okinawa. On today's Roundtable, Jon and I look back at the time of training in his classes years ago, the invaluable lessons learned, and the courage to not quit even when things are difficult.

I'm incredibly proud of this episode and thrilled to be able to share it.

• 00:03:04 - Episode Intro
• 00:05:25 - Jon’s start in karate
• 00:10:17 - Jon Training after coming back from combat
• 00:11:42 - What is a kata?
• 00:17:08 - Similarities between Shotokan and Shorin-ryu Karate
• 00:19:50 - Jon share his thoughts on the benefits of karate 
• 00:28:40 - You’re never the best. You can always be better
• 00:31:49 - Benefit of learning to ignore discomfort in self defense
• 00:34:16 - Having a Sensei/teacher who taught for the love of the art and not for a job
• 00:37:15 - Drive, determination, focus and a kicking competition
• 00:43:40 - Improving yourself, keeping ego in check
• 00:46:10 - Some unique things about Matsubyashi Shorin-Ryu karate and the bonds between practitioners 
• 00:49:12 - Differences in how folks viewed belt colors
• 00:55:04 - Having Goals for students to hit
• 00:56:51 - Be the belt you want to be; don’t care about the belt you are (a philosophy life lesson)
• 01:00:55 - Closing thoughts

RESOURCE LINKS

You can now listen to Lancelot's Roundtable on all your favorite listener sites.

https://www.lancelotsroundtable.com

Episode Length: 1 hour 9 minutes

Thanks so much for tuning in. Join us again next week for another episode!

DOWNLOAD OPTIONS

• Direct Download: Right-click on the download area located in the player and click “Save As” for a direct download.
• Listen and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player for free!
• If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review so more people can find the podcast.

"It's gonna happen, people are gonna be evil, people are going to do do evil things... but if someone doesn't do something, it's just going to be that much worse" - Jake

Connect with us! Leave a comment. We love talking to, and getting to know our listeners!

Follow and share Lancelot's Roundtable on Instagram.

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/lancelots-roundtable/donations

Episode 25 -

Growing up in a family that owns a small business, venturing into risks, and talking politics. 

I’ve looked forward to talking to Beau for a long time. She is a ‘Jack of all trades’. Beau grew up in Appalachia in a family that owned a small business. She has lived and worked in the crazy world of politics and she works with incredibly innovative entrepreneurs. I’m excited for you to get to know Beau.

In This Episode…

We take a plunge into learning about, growing up in rural America, small business owners, innovative entrepreneurs, and good old-fashioned hard working folks 

• [00.00] Podcast Introduction
• [00.57] Opening comments and guess introduction
• [03.06] Growing up in Appalachia
• [05.08] Growing up in a secure environment
• [06:10] Beau’s two experiences of failure
• [08.48] The reality of failure, grieving, and the death of a parent
• [11.10] Being a township trustee
• [15.23] Informing yourself in the political space
• [17.01] Getting involved in your community
• [19.56] Researching politicians
• [23.40] States rights and Federal rights
• [28.28] Why can’t either side talk to each other
• [33.21] The importance of conversation
• [37.13] Talking with neighbors
• [41.00] Beau talks about a new video game being developed 
• [46.56] For some of us (me), it’s hard to take the leap and make a big decision
• [48.41] Challenges in rural America
• [53.51] Closing remarks

RESOURCE LINKS

Links to People and Companies We Mentioned in the Show

• BBC America
• Heroes League

You can now listen to Lancelot's Roundtable on all your favorite listener sites.

Episode Length: 59 minutes

Thanks so much for tuning in. Join us again next week for another episode!

DOWNLOAD OPTIONS

• Direct Download: Right-click on the download area located in the player and click “Save As” for a direct download.
• Listen and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player for free!
• If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review so more people can find the podcast.

"If you don’t do the work and make it - it will never exist" - Alex Markley

Connect with us! Leave a comment. We love talking to, and getting to know our listeners!

Follow and share Lancelot's Roundtable on Instagram.

Public Episode Page

59 min

Unpublished Draft

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/lancelots-roundtable/donations

Lance Foulis 0:01 

Everybody, welcome to another bonus episode of the Lancelot roundtable. For this bonus episode, I wanted to try something new we hadn't previously done on the roundtable. Allow me to elaborate. When I was originally thinking of doing this bonus episode, I wanted it to be a review of the first season of the chosen TV series. Well, as we recorded, it turned out a bit differently than I had originally planned. So I wanted to explain three things before you listen to the episode. First thing, my special guest co-host, and I talk about reviewing the chosen throughout throughout our our talk. What actually happened during this recording wasn't really a review. Instead, I would say we just had a discussion about the chosen TV series as we recapped our thoughts and feelings for watching the first season. Second, as already stated, My original like what I was thinking about envisioning for this bonus episode was kind of a review of the entire season of the chosen TV series of the first season. Well, one episode recording for Lancelot roundtable was not even nearly enough time to do a quote review of an entire season of a TV TV series. So we we didn't even remotely get close to the end of the entire to like talking about the whole the whole first season of the chosen. And third, there are spoilers obviously in this in in our discussion of the chosen TV series. So listen at your own risk if you haven't seen it already. Now if you haven't, I really highly recommend it. So definitely, definitely take the time to go see it. Now I definitely hope that you enjoy listening to our discussion. And as always, thank you so much for taking the time to listen into the roundtable we really appreciate all of you that regularly listen in to our episodes.

David Eckl 1:50 

You get your paycheck today but every month you have to go to this hut stand in line and pay it

Lance Foulis 1:58 

yeah cuz right now dude like we don't have to see how much taxes are coming out of our paycheck Yes, we just get our direct deposit and and then every time you look at your your your cheque and you're like, wait, you took how much my paycheck would have been what Hello, everybody and welcome back to land sloths roundtable. Today we have an episode where we are going to be reviewing a TV series. That TV series is called a chosen. And here to help me with that review is my good friend David eco. Dave, welcome to the roundtable. Hi,

David Eckl 2:44 

Lance. Happy to be here.

Lance Foulis 2:45 

Yeah, happy to have you man. So we are going to be doing a review of the chosen. You feel up for that.

David Eckl 2:50 

I am totally up for it. Sweet. One of the best. Yes,

Lance Foulis 2:54 

it's a fantastic fantastic series. Why don't you tell the people a little bit about yourself?

David Eckl 2:59 

Yeah, so Lance you and I met a couple of years ago couple couple it's I think it's been seven or eight it seems like it's been a couple but at the company we currently work for still today. I am a big apple aficionado as you well know we've already talked about that.

Lance Foulis 3:15 

Number eight your cubicle you had those like what was it like the original icons on the very first app or something like that?

David Eckl 3:21 

I had something like that a lot of Apple pictures now it's just working from home I don't have those anymore. So yeah, forget about it. But yeah, big apple time. Guy love it. love everything about it.

Lance Foulis 3:33 

They heard you kind of like golf to

David Eckl 3:36 

golf. Yes. Golf on the weekends in the summer is kind of my go to I really enjoy the time out on the course. My data to now has a month old, three year old. So it's a little hectic in the home. But we're making it you make it work, right? We make it work. That's for sure. There's two boys, right? Two boys, Olin and Bo and I'm really thankful for them. I love being a dad, as I'm sure you're well aware. Oh, it's fantastic. So

Lance Foulis 4:06 

it's I feel like it's one of the biggest challenges ever been through. But it's also one of the biggest rewards biggest adventure biggest reward? Yes. Especially when you really I feel like once we got past the infant stage. I mean, we've had this conversation before. When you're when for me personally, when I was in the infant stage, it was just lack of sleep really got to me. Yes. So once we got out of the infant stage and everybody's sleeping through the night, then it just becomes like, Oh, you're living with these little humans that have these really interesting personalities. They throw giant fits sometimes. And that's not fun, but it's still very fascinating. And then like when they do start Yeah, it's just it's very rewarding, right? challenging, but rewarding,

David Eckl 4:42 

right. One of my biggest things I like to say is the word bummer around the home, so bummer. Well now my three almost three year old is now walking around the house and saying Oh bummer. Yeah, when something isn't right and I'm like okay, they are little sponges.

Lance Foulis 4:56 

They are little sponges. They absorb everything. They watch everything they See it all? Yeah, it's kind of scary. Anyway. So today, Dave, we're going to review the chosen. I don't remember when I found out about this. I think the first season was out when I first heard about it, I think was one of our friends one of Kim's good friends. Christine, I think she messaged Kim or something because we were frustrated about, there's nothing that kids can watch. There's nothing, there's nothing good that we can watch. And then I think it was Christine who messenger on Facebook or something was like, Hey, I, you guys should just watch the chosen the kids loved our kids love the chosen and it's really good. And it's really well done. So then I found out that it was like, I'm putting this in quotes everybody a Christian show. And I personally have some thoughts about, again, Christian in quotes, content that gets created movies, right feel like you can kind of always tell when you see one of these TV shows or movies. Oh, yeah, this is this is done by one of those Christian. I don't even know what you'd call them. But with with this. So when I went in, I was like, I wasn't very excited about watching this. And I think Kim and I then watched, like the first episode, and I was literally just blown away. Everything. Everything was just spot on. The music was amazing. The acting was fantastic. And the emote, you were immediately drawn in. I just I loved it. I was hooked right away. You

David Eckl 6:29 

Yeah, the theatrics of it. I think that's what you're looking for. There was just on point, like, it was one of those things where, especially in the day and age today, if you're not hooked from the start, or kind of get a little bit, you know, have a sense of Wow, that's good. You might not watch it past, you know, the intro or first, you know, a couple of minutes in there. 100% I think for my wife and I Katie, we're just like, wow, like, is intense. Yes, it is intense. It's kind of I like the it's a straight shot in terms of you know, what they're trying to talk about. It's not like they're trying to cover everything in one episode. It's spread out obviously over. Yep. And I really appreciated like, there's a very serious part in every thing that they're talking about. But there's also the humor. Yeah, that keeps you kind of coming back. Yes. It's funny. I really, you know, I, I watched season one and two, we watched it again. We're like, Let's go like, let's watch. Let's get to the other seasons. I know they have seven. Planning. Yeah, planning seven. So they are in

Lance Foulis 7:29 

three right there in

David Eckl 7:30 

three. So three just got got funded, officially, the whole series, the whole series got funded. So the whole season, the whole season. So now they're going to start filming. Okay, so I'm excited. Yeah, very excited. It's actually I did have a couple of notes here that I was surprised about is actually shot in Utah. So season one into place. I knew that Utah, yeah. And they're now they moved it down to Dallas. And that's where season three and beyond will be shot. But also the cool part about it when I was reading about it, is that they're actually going to create a tourist attraction, where you can go seasonally, that's, and thanks. So I think that would be a fun kind of thing to go see how it's shot. And yeah, maybe some of the people are there that are the actors and you know, the different props and how they did it would be a cool thing to see. Yeah, take the kids 200%

Lance Foulis 8:20 

agree with that. I didn't know any of that. I don't even think I knew or were shot. I think I thought Season Two for some reason was in Texas, but that's probably just because I saw something about season three on Instagram because I followed the director Dallas Jenkins on Instagram. And he's always posting stuff about where they're at. And so I think I just saw something where they were in Dallas, or maybe because his name is Dallas. I thought that everything was just in Dallas. That's a good one. Oh, geez. Okay, sorry folks. We had a little bit of a technical glitch. I think the headphones I had David using are bad. And I thought I'd got rid of my bad headphones but anyway, here we are. We're back. We're back. We're live and we're recording technically not live so what I was saying is I have like this website the synopsis place so it has all of the I have episode one the different things that happened in episode one so I can kind of think through I was looking through this yesterday. I know you already have some notes, but I just thought we would start with season one. So I'm just I'm just remembering like yeah, firing it up and just immediately being like, wow, like the cinematography is good. The music's good. And I was pretty much immediately hooked. So if you can remember the episode one does a really good job of like enjoying a lot of different characters in a really interesting way. So I love how in episode one, they open with just it's it's nighttime, it's this little girl, it's her dad, there's a tent, so they don't even have like a home and she's afraid I think she You said she's afraid of the dark, essentially. And then her dad's I think he hands her the doll or she has the doll. Yep. And then he's like, What do we say? And then he, he quotes Isaiah, Isaiah 43, which says, Thus says the Lord who created you, oh, Jacob, and he who formed you, oh is real fear not for I have redeemed you, I have called you by name, you are mine. And she keeps that verse in her little doll. And then if you remember, like, immediately after that, like seeing the very next scene is essentially her dad dying of something. And then it cuts to several years later, when this little girl is all grown up, and she's in a city, and she's not having the best of times. What are your memories of of that opening?

David Eckl 10:41 

Yeah. So I like from the start, it seems like every single episode is a chance to say and be who is that? Like? Who like who is this little girl? And like, how many people are in the Bible? Hundreds or 1000s of people? And it's like, Wait, who is this one person? And who are they jumping in with? I do remember. I believe it was Mary. Right. And Mary, at a very young age, what we'll see in the next couple of episodes in terms of what she is going to become and then turn into but seen from the start her I don't know just innocence and who she was and just kind of like holding on to something special. I think a lot of times a lot of people have that one special thing that they kind of hold on to a doll, a bear a blanket, that being passed down to her and her holding on to that thing I feel like was just a quick kinda like, what is that? And that really from the start season one episode one like yeah, really captivates the audience and says, Okay, well, what is that? And even see, you know, the Isaiah 59 written on it. It's like, Okay, that's interesting. So, I don't know, that just kind of jumped right into it from the start for me where it's like, what is that? Yeah, kind of follow along. And every single episode that you watch really is either a flashback, or some kind of fast forward to what's going to be talked about any episode and kind of ties back to it later in the episode. So yeah, I think what we see initially we'll, we'll get to that, but we'll come back into that picture eventually.

Lance Foulis 12:12 

Yeah, I that's a really good way to put put it when you were saying like, how, like, a lot of times they start an episode. And you don't know, it's these new characters that you haven't seen yet. Even like in later episodes, it won't start with the characters that you've known. It'll be like a brand new character, and they're doing something you're like, What are they doing? And then, and then it clicks at some point, because they go through and they're doing what they're doing. And all of a sudden, it's like, Oh, this isn't even like Jesus's time. This is this Jacob, right? Oh, that's Jacob and his sons. Oh, that's what they're doing. And like, that's just so fascinating how they do that almost like, I think last, the TV series last was the first one that I can remember that would jump around time, like that. But yeah, like how I liked how it opens. And then it's like this little girl on you're like, I don't know who this is. She's got a dad. She's living in a tent. She has this doll. They know God. So clearly, this must be an Israelite, right? But I don't know who this is. This isn't Jesus. Because it's a little girl.

David Eckl 13:13 

I like it. Yeah, it for me. I think the context like it would be it would feel off if there was like a context to say, here's what this is. And here's the time. And here's the story. It gives me that sense of okay, what is this and trying to think through the entire Bible? Like, okay, what are they talking about from this first episode? Now watching it over again? I, I know what they're talking about. But it gives that kind of, okay, what is this? Exactly? And where are they in the Bible? And what is the story showing us?

Lance Foulis 13:44 

Yeah, it's like, it's like, it's a really interesting way to take it creatively. Because instead of, if they like, opened with a paragraph to place you where you are with who you are, instead of doing that what they're doing is they're just letting you be a fly on the wall. Right and experience what's going on and like, yeah, so I liked how they set that up. And when we say its merits, it wasn't, I mean, spoiler alert, this has been out for a while. So if you're listening to this, you know, pause it and go watch the first season or the first episode and then so we don't spoil anything for you. But the Mary that it is actually Mary Magdalene, so it's not like Mary Jesus's mom. So super interesting that that's the character that they introduced, introduced us with, it was intentional. I'll just say that it was intentional that we start with her. And then the next scene that they have here is with Nicodemus, you so you there's somebody traveling along the road, and he's wearing a nice outfit, he's got a girl, clearly his wife that he's traveling with, and he's got like priestly garments on and then Romans show up like Romans with armor and everything show up and they're basically the Romans are coming to tell him we don't know who this guy is yet, but he seems to be an importer. are in person. So the Roman guard is basically like, hey, people are fishing when they shouldn't be fishing and we're not getting taxes. Is that basically the setup? I believe so? Yeah. Because it's like, we need our taxes, and they're fishing when you people aren't supposed to do any work. And we're not getting taxes for that. So you need to, you need to make us put a stop to this. And that guy, he's a little bit like, I don't do your work, and they're like, well, you're going to anyway, so that's what I remember. Is that what you remember?

David Eckl 15:26 

Yeah, Nicodemus is a he's an important character in the full season one, like looking at it and really seen him from the start, you know, he is of importance with when they're riding, I believe it was horse and chariot like he is sitting like a king. And his role, what you'll see throughout the entire season one and season two, actually is is very important, but just to hear what he has to say and how he handles certain things he's getting he's got a little bit of some intrigue to him about what's going on. And understanding okay, something's something's up. Like he seems like there's something going on. And just in that early episode, and that early interaction with the Romans, something's not right. There's some something missing there that keeps intriguing you Yes. Okay. What is okay, what's going on here? Yeah. Yeah, that was a good, that was a good start. I really liked that. Start to add to see Nicodemus and what he eventually will do, and how he meets Jesus and talks to him. And that's tough. So you can kind of see right away this is kind of getting into the story of Jesus and what is going to come?

Lance Foulis 16:42 

Yeah, yeah, it's this show does a really good job of getting you invested not just in a singular character, but like, it sets up like a full story of like so many individual characters, and they're all very, very, very unique. Yes. And they all are drawn to this guy, Jesus, for very different reasons, yet kind of the saint, it's how they do that is really, really, really well done. And by the way, I always do this whenever I'm watching something, if I see if I see an actor, I'm like, oh, what else have I seen him in? So the guy that plays Nicodemus, his the actor's name is Erick Avari, who's actually a fairly well known actor. He was in like the first scene of Independence Day, he's the guy that wakes up and hits his head on a thing because somebody wakes him up, and he's monitoring for alien activity. First time I saw this actor was in actually Stargate. He plays like the main guy in the movie Stargate, sorry, the chief of like the locals. He's like the chief or the locals. So anyway, they got a that was that was one of the I don't think I recognized any of the other actors in this series. But I did recognize him. So I just wanted to call that out. Okay, so the next is there anything else you want to say about that scene? Good to go. Okay. All right. Then the next scene, we are introduced to Matthew, a tax collector. He's an Israelite, but he collects taxes for the Romans. And he is the actor that plays. Matthew is Paris Patel. And he's an Outstanding Actor in this role. Do you remember that? You remember that scene.

David Eckl 18:19 

Matthew is interesting, from the direction that he plays in this first off in the Bible, but then also in this series, just about where he comes from, and where it he is doing and how he goes about himself is interesting, because he's, he's truly unlike anyone else. Because everyone doesn't like him. Yeah. So any, we get into it with throughout the seasons, and the series is of how he kind of handles himself. But in this situation, we see him early about what he is going to be doing and what he is called to do. And I remember in kind of that first episode that Matthews just kind of, he's a little different. Yeah. And how he handles himself and seeing that i He's another one of those characters. That's like we now in been introduced to three characters already tuned. Mary, Nicodemus and Matthew, they all have this interesting type of thing to him. Yeah. And it's another one of those notches that's like, Okay, what is this and what's going on? Let's find out more about what they're about. Obviously, when you introduce a tax collector into this series, that it's going to obviously interrupt throw people off because it's someone that a lot of people don't like, and it kind of creates that maybe a bad character right off the right off the bat, like, yeah, why is this guy collecting taxes? Let's not show about him, but he was just as important to Jesus as anyone else. So yeah, it was early on he kind of get that feel for who he is and what he's gonna. What he's going to be for the for the show.

Lance Foulis 19:59 

Yeah. So like in the scene, he's like, on his way to his work, and he can't take a direct route, because that would put could put him at danger because like you said, a tax collector is not a very liked individual, they're collecting taxes for Rome, I think historically, they were known to, you know, maybe make people pay a little bit more than what they had to pay. And they would kind of take a little extra for themselves. So they were kind of like, despise and especially if, if you're an Israelite, which Matthew is, your all Israelites are subject under Rome right now. And he's working for, quote, the enemy. Because you're, you're under the you're under the rule of Rome, but you're your own ethnic group. And the fact that you're collecting taxes for the Romans, but you're actually an Israelite, there's, like, inherent levels of feelings of betrayal that we get into, obviously, but just the fact that he's very isolated kind of individual, he seems to like it first. But he seems to also not be happy about it. And just the nature of him not even being able to take a direct route to work and having almost smuggle himself. And then he gets there. And then that's when he has protection, because there's Roman guards there to kind of keep him safe, right, which we find out later. Well, we'll get to it.

David Eckl 21:16 

But even like in that's in that first scene, when he's going to work, what you see about him is he is trying to be as clean as possible. I think he thinks everyone else is dirty, you always see kind of not touching things, or just kind of being a little standoffish. And it's like, Okay, what's going on here? Like, do you not, you know, he is is or like, you not associate with these people? Yeah, because you are now the tax collector. It's, it is interesting.

Lance Foulis 21:47 

That just that reminds me because I think in the opening scene is when he's at his house, right? Yes. And he's like, got like a whole plate of food, like nice food, what you probably consider nice food. He's like dabbing, like, oils on himself or whatever to smell good. And then he puts on these really nice looking leather sandals, which he then proceeds to step in, poop. And then he, alright, we had a little bit of a hiccup there. I just caught it out of corner, my eye it stopped recording. So now we're recording again. So I think what I was just saying is like, this guy, Matthew, the character that we're introduced to, he's got his own. He has a backup pair of sandals. And you can kind of I got the sense that nobody says anything. But like, Oh, those are probably extra expensive sandals. These are like some Nike, you know, Jordan whatever's Yes, they

David Eckl 22:33 

are. They are not, they are not the Old Navy $5 Summer sandal. These are not that

Lance Foulis 22:40 

these are not those sandals. Yeah, they're just like that these are be super expensive. And not the the average person couldn't have it. And then he goes, and he walks steps in some poop. And he immediately has a backup pair that he can replace. And there's even that character that is he gets into the back of the guy's wagon, but the character is like, Oh, you're throwing those away, because you stepped in poop, give them to me that I could sell them and feed my family for a month. He said something like that. So we can tell that Matthew is very wealthy? He has. I don't know, he has a status type job. And he's just in a comfortable type position, I guess I would say

David Eckl 23:15 

He is very young. It's a good point of his age and might not be the wisest to make the decision will spoiler it also later on, you'll see with his parents, his parents don't agree with him being a tax collector, right at all. So I think he is a little young and immature in the fact that he chose this route for his life. Yeah. And he's kind of going about it on his own. Yeah, to figure things out.

Lance Foulis 23:42 

Yep. Yeah, that's good. All right. And then we go the next scene, it takes us back to Nicodemus, who has arrived at a synagogue and we basically, then it basically shows us how important he is. Because when he arrives at the synagogue, all of the people in the synagogue had been waiting for him to arrive. And basically, they start calling him like the Teacher of teachers. He's just you get a sense, like, this isn't just some random priestly guy. This isn't just some random Pharisee. Like this is somebody who's really high up there on whatever this hierarchy is. Do you have any thoughts about that scene?

David Eckl 24:19 

Just that you see, especially in the synagogue, you see early on the tradition and the history of what faith meant to people. And it was the history of Nicodemus being what they called him the teacher.

Lance Foulis 24:34 

All right, another technical issue, but we are back. Okay, we were talking you were talking about the Teacher of teachers.

David Eckl 24:41 

Nicodemus being the Teacher of teachers. And what we had talked about was him being that to so many people, at that certain time that whenever he would go someplace he had that respect for everyone else, or that everyone else had would have the respect for him and he would, everyone would look at him as a And person in that day because that's all they had to go for because of his faith at that time. So it was a very important person in the early go of this and what people's faith was at that time.

Lance Foulis 25:15 

Yeah. Yeah, that's good. I was I was kind of blown away because they had prepared a reading room for him. And so he gets in, and like everything set up where he's going to be reading what scrolls he's got, they have the pen thing that that so like, they have this thing that looks like a pen. And it's like, when they read, they're moving this thing along each word. So they're not actually writing anything, but it's like an instrument that they use when they actually read, which was wild. So they're like, is everything set, you know, to your standards? I think they had like some snacks there. And he's like, Yeah, that's fine, thank you. But I was just like, man, person arrives and like you have your own reading area set up and all of these very particular things like that's some that's some level of status, for sure. Okay, and then I one thing that's important to point out about this particular scene is that when it ends, a Roman shows up and proceeds to usher himself into this room, which is apparently like a no, no kind of disrespectful, and they're like, well, like all the other guys are like, What are you doing? You can't just walk in here? And he's like, Yes, I actually can. Thank you. And that's when the Romans are like to Nicodemus the character, like, we have a problem. There's a demon possessed person there. There was another scene, I think, that we had had where it flashes back to Mary and she's having some major issues. She actually sees. She sees a Rome and I think, and then she has a flashback, of of like earlier on, and it's just a silhouette of a Roman soldier coming into the room where she's at shutting the door, and you can infer what happened to her. She was a victim at that point. And then when she has that memory, she's having that memory from seeing a Roman in real time. And then like is messing with her? Like she you can just tell she's in a real turmoil, and then Then she's having issues in a room. Did I miss anything? You did not

David Eckl 27:17 

the one character I was gonna bring up in, really the start of it that will see important throughout everything is Schmell. Oh, yeah, shimmy. Well, Chanel, Chanel, like just the name of it. It's like, Who is this? Yeah, who is he? He I believe the guy was like, set up the room, right? Yes. And he was, I believe the right hand man to Nicodemus, that sounds right. Yeah, he was almost the next in line. And it does definitely the sense that you get it and yes, and there's something particular about him that was interesting, where he was, okay, what's going on? Like another one of those characters that's like, Okay, we have Mary, who is in this state of turmoil, turmoil. And then you have Roman guards, you have Matthew, and just one of those people that were keeping track of that. I mean, I've read the Bible, pretty much in my entire life. I haven't heard of him before, right in the Bible. So another a character that was, I believe, in the book, but also important in this to show kind of who Nicodemus is, and give them that support to what he's going to do.

Lance Foulis 28:19 

Yeah. Did you know when you say like you would read? Do you remember anybody named schmo shimmy? Well, in the Bible, not to my knowledge. Yeah, me either. But that's one cool thing about I think the series is that it introduces, it introduces characters that fit in in the world, and bring it more to life, I think. But yeah, he's a very interesting character, because your mind knows like, I'm cutting the track with this person. And you don't know why. But yeah, the show does a really good job of that. I think, like, oh, I need to need to pay attention to this guy is like as soon as Nicodemus arrives, this character from UL is like, Oh, I'm so glad that you're here. I've set up this room for you and like yelling at the Roman guard, you're not allowed in here. And then so one funny thing that happens when we're kind of all over the place, but it is what it is. When the Roman guard or when the Roman soldier shows up and they're like Nicodemus, you need to go down to the red quarter because there's somebody who's having a demon possessed situation and we can't have it. And he's taught. I don't think we know but you could probably have inferred it. They're talking about Mary Mary's having a severe issue. Some kind of demon possession type of a thing is what they're alluding to. And Nicodemus Nicodemus, his response is like, I don't, I don't deal with affairs of Rome, that's you need to deal with that. And then the Roman soldier is like, what did he say? He said something like you need to go take care of it. Your Way or or Rome will take care of it with our fire of fires. I don't remember what he said like before he said fires of fires, but that was hilarious because he basically was like, he asked nicely the first time then Nicodemus was like, No, that's Rome's problem. And then he's like, Well, Oh, you're actually going to do it, or we're going to just go down and destroy the place.

David Eckl 30:04 

It's, it was an interesting scene, quote unquote, where he went to go do that. Like he did not want to go down this Yeah. Or they can Amos did not want to do that.

Lance Foulis 30:15 

Yeah, it's a super it's so like, you definitely get the sense in this scene that it's a very edgy, not great area of town is the place that you don't want to go visit. You're not safe there. All of the deplorables are there. So this this high up guy wants nothing to do with going to that area of town.

David Eckl 30:36 

Right? Yeah, it is. It's going to be an interesting scene in it to see that someone that was possessed to being that taking out of them of what's to come there. Yeah. It's not an area that he wanted to go to but their own. The only true way for her to come out of that was for Nicodemus to go down there. Interesting that the Roman guard would say, hey, like, you need to take care of it instead of us. Because you would think with someone being possessed, you would probably choose the fire fires for them rather than saying, hey, Nicodemus, you need to go take care of them. Yeah. And then have that come out of her?

Lance Foulis 31:16 

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, it was a very, very, very interesting scene. So like, obviously, once that scene is over, it cuts from Nicodemus his storyline, essentially over to two brothers. So the next thing we're introduced to Simon Peter, and his brother, Andrew, and what are they doing?

David Eckl 31:38 

They are, were they fishing, they

Lance Foulis 31:41 

are gambling. They were in they were using, they were fighting. Simon Peter was like, basically in a boxing street match with this other guy who we find out later is his brother in law. And they're basically gambling and betting on Simon. They don't explain the rules. But basically, Simon is getting just punched around. And you kind of figure out that he's, he's playing the game. He's not really as hurt as he's letting on. He's not almost done, as he's letting on. And his brother Andrew is like looking on telling him you got to take another punch. And then Sam Peters, like, I don't want to take another one. And then his brother Andrew is like no, like, it's all like signals, right? Nobody's saying anything. They're just making looks at each other. And then he's like, No, you gotta take another one. So then he takes another punch. And he's acting like super hurt. Simon Peter is acting like he's super hurt. He's not called Simon Peter yet. He's just called Simon. And and then he like, Does this really cool hop, kicks himself up onto his feet after something apparently went the right way. And then he starts beating the tar out of the other guy. So Simon all of a sudden flips the tables, and is clearly not as hurt he said he had seemed to be and then he beats down the other guy who's his brother in law, which I don't even know if it reveals that. I don't think so. Any any thoughts on on on that?

David Eckl 33:03 

Interesting that fighting is something that's prevalent in the day and age and everything that's going on, obviously, it's another one of those things where we were introduced to Mary first now Nicodemus, and then when we're introduced to Matthew, and now we're introduced to more disciples of Christ, and you see that and like, what they're going to become for Jesus, and like, in the fighting aspect of it for me, I was like, okay, like, this is interesting. I'm not too much into fighting. Like, I don't like to watch it, you know, but I understand back then, obviously, it was some hobby that people enjoy doing. And they would

Lance Foulis 33:44 

was a form of entertainment when you didn't have a TV, no TV or watch a couple of days.

David Eckl 33:48 

Exactly. each other. Exactly. And they would gamble on it. And that was the afternoon of fun when they weren't working. It was it was interesting.

Lance Foulis 33:56 

Yeah. Yeah. And I also like thinking about overall how they do the TV show. Like if you've if, if you have been and like, I grew up in the church, I grew up reading my Bible. Well, actually, I didn't really start reading my Bible until I was older. I thought it was boring. But in reading the Bible in, you know, if you've gone to Sunday school, you've heard stories, you know, Peter, he's like, he's a top tier character and your brightness if you know the story of the Bible, Andrew, not so much a top tier character, but still an important character Jesus top to your character, Nicodemus. Now, I don't even know if he's literally mentioned in the Bible. He is He is maybe once or twice, okay, so he's a real character. Yes. And then Mary Magdalene, she is as well, but again, not a key character, Matthew, I don't really remember reading. I mean, he wrote one of the books in the Bible, but I don't really remember noticing him is a character that had a bunch of stories in the Bible. And what's interesting about this, this series is they don't, they don't start you off with a character writers that you're expecting like, Oh, it's a story about Jesus, we still haven't seen Jesus yet. And we're like, what three or four scenes in still haven't met Jesus don't know where he is. Don't know who he is. Maybe we have seen him, we don't know. And then finally, now we're just getting introduced to somebody that people that know the story of the Bible, they would know. Oh, Peter, I know who Peter is. His name was his name was Simon. So he's not the first character Mary is the first character, which is really fascinating to me. Okay, so basically, we get the sense that Simon is maybe not your he he may be isn't your the role model that you would want your kids to model themselves after he's gambling, he's fighting, trying to get money. And we realized, I don't remember if we realize in the scene, but basically, they need money. So they're trying to figure out how to make money because they haven't been making enough money fishing. And then we find out that Peter is married, which I think was a very fascinating take. I don't personally have any theories on whether or not he was actually married, except for I was reading mark the other night. And it did say, talk about his mother in law was sick, and that Jesus healed his mother and see that so if he has a mother in law, and again, I don't know the actual Hebrew of the book of Mark, but I remember reading that it's a mother in law, not his mother. So did you have any? What did you think when you saw Peter is married and his wife's name is Eden

David Eckl 36:30 

Simon is a very interesting character in this, you know, there's something about him when you're watching just kind of funny,

Lance Foulis 36:38 

witty, yes, he good humor,

David Eckl 36:41 

yes, has good humor, something about him. And when you go into the scene initially, like with him fighting, and then finding out he has a wife, there's some kind of, I don't know, sleight, I would say in terms of what he is doing and trying to do and get, you know, obviously, money to be able to pay taxes to be able to live to be able to do certain things. So he's trying to find all these different routes to take to be able to do something. Especially Andrew mean, his brother's a little bit, I would say, a little bit more wise, in terms of just is nature. But Simon is, is an interesting character, I think he's going to be great. And it's like, you would never have pictured if this was the first time you're watching or reading or following along with this. And you have no history of the Bible, or what it's talking about. The people that are starting to come into the scene. I don't think anyone would have an idea that they're all going to be together. Yeah, at some point. You know, it's like, way these stories,

Lance Foulis 37:44 

Jesus is gonna pick all these people to be in his troop. Yeah. See that? Because they're all two different.

David Eckl 37:49 

Yes. All different corners, the high levels, low levels, fighting people demon possessed. Simon is an interesting one, especially Andrew, and this.

Lance Foulis 38:00 

Yeah. And just like all the other characters that we've mentioned, they're all all of the actors are fantastic. And Paris Patel, like we were saying is, is who plays Matthew, I've never seen him in anything before. Shahar. Isaac is who plays Simon and he is super ripped. Yes, super ripped. And he's a fantastic actor. And I didn't think of this until you were kind of talking about it. But are you we're talking about Simon and Andrew but they have really great chemistry. Like you totally can believe that. They're brothers the way that they get they're very different. And just how they interact with each other is very brotherly. Which I guess you would expect but it's it's well done to their

David Eckl 38:41 

jobs in nature of being fishermen. Like you need to be very muscular you need to have a lot of I would say mind power but also that body power to be able to take these nets bringing all these fish you know do those kinds of things and do that I feel like getting your

Lance Foulis 38:59 

fingers all caught up with those nets you probably have major calluses I mean, have you ever seen Deadliest Catch people? Did you ever see that show? Deadliest Catch? No. Oh my gosh, I was really into that show like I don't know how long ago but yeah, it's just these fishermen in Alaska that go out and like get crab and it's super dangerous like the weather can turn in an instant and yeah, so anyway,

David Eckl 39:21 

but the net like there's no modern technology there's no hooks to be able to pull things in manually or automatically from the boats. It's your hands are out there. You're pulling in these fish you need to be very muscular and well fit to be able to withstand the days and you know, they're not just hanging out on the boat about getting suntan out the hair. They're right. They're working. You know, it is a working man's job and that is something that is very important to see. Yeah, in the visual of that too. I you know, you resonate a little bit with that, that they are relentless in their efforts to find a wage to support your family to support your why If Yeah, the mother in law for assignment isn't sick yet we don't see her right sick that will come eventually. But to be able to provide for the family is huge in this situation in this instance. So yep, I feel like he's going to all ends to figure out how we can bring in money for that.

Lance Foulis 40:15 

Yep. And like, it is really interesting when you meet Eden, you can see like, Oh, this is Simon's house, this is his wife, you get the sense that they're really young, like, like, in in that culture, you've alluded to this, but in that culture, you're the guy, you're out there and you gotta you got to do what you got to do to bring in provision. And if you don't do it, you and your wife starve your wife is home, taking care of things, getting food ready, taking care of the house, so that the house stays in order. But I just remember, I don't remember if it was this scene, but just kind of like the scenes that that we have with Peter, or excuse me with Simon and Eden, is just his, the burden, you can see the burden that he's carrying in need wanting to take care of his wife, and there's even like, Andrews around, he's doing stuff too. But you could you just get this set. I got this sense watching Peter. He's, it felt to me like he's more newly married, maybe a year, maybe two years or whatever. But like, he's just got this burden of responsibility on him. Like, I've got to take care of stuff. And I just feel that way. And I remember being young and married Kim, I was 25. When Kim and I got married, she was 21. I did not have an established career, but I can remember the burden of like, I need to be able to provide for my family. And like when things aren't going well. I can remember many times when things wouldn't go well. And it just seems like things aren't going right. And so just I just remember getting this set, getting that sense and feeling for Peter, especially as we get to know him like, things aren't easy. I can kind of see why he's making decisions that he's making that I wouldn't necessarily make. But he is under like a level of duress. Did you get any feelings like that?

David Eckl 41:59 

Yeah, so Eden is very much so a character a person that is really being forward in terms of how she's, you know, trying to be a wife to Simon and I think, especially the scenes I know what you're talking about, like where you're seeing her, you know, make food she's doing the laundry, she's cleaning up the house, you know, Simon's a lot of times I think I remember vividly and there is that Eden, said to said to her was there said to him said, Well, you know, where are you going? He's like, I gotta go, I'll be back. And like one of the things like he's going to do something to either make money to do something for fishing, but he's trying to figure it out where the responsibility now isn't just on his own. It's to provide for his family. Yeah. And seeing that was was key too.

Lance Foulis 42:51 

Yeah. So okay, so the next scene, we actually go back to Nicodemus and he is traveling through the seedy area of town. They call it the red quarter. It's where unsavory characters are, and they're walking around I think it's just funny because you got Nicodemus I think she she Manuel's like, to your point before he's like, right behind them right hand guy, I'm putting that in quotes. And there's like two or three other these guys, you can just tell they're incredibly out of their element. They're very uncomfortable, I think they see either prostitutes, or slaves or slaves that are prostitutes, like on the corner on the corner of the street. I'm putting that in quotes. Because it's, it's there's an image that happens and you just see them kind of look and make eye contact. When you see Nicodemus and his cohorts making eye contact with this scene, where these people are either getting sold or they're they're standing on a corner waiting to be purchased or something like that. You can just tell Oh, no, I need to avert my eyes. I shouldn't even be seeing what I'm seeing and they're traveling to go deal with this situation. And then when they get close to it, they have the audio of what we assume is Mary because there's a room or like I guess what we could call an apartment and you can just hear growling wailing very just noises that make you feel something's very very off

David Eckl 44:22 

very uneasy, very uneasy. Yes. And even going into it it's I mean, you don't there's no other show or series that you would see something like this being talked about or shown like it's not something you would watch on TV it's very much you know, she was demon possessed. And hearing those things it's like what is going on here like you know, you're intrigued to find out more you want to keep watching you don't want to like turn away you want you want to see what she might be going through and what this Nicodemus who, besides the Roman guards potentially As the top guy, you know, in the city, the Teacher of teachers coming in to treating probably one of the lowest type of people in the city. Yep. And having an interaction where it's, this doesn't happen too often. Right? Let's watch it. Let's get into it.

Lance Foulis 45:17 

Yeah, absolutely. And you can tell I mean, they do a really good job of setting up like, okay, something is really like you're hearing these noises that are coming from that room and you're like, Okay, this is actually very serious. And this guy, yeah, should be able to do something in this situation, but he doesn't look like he's not inspiring a whole lot of confidence in what he's going to do. But then he kind of takes charge he goes, he looks to his dude Shmi well, and he basically is like, go get these ingredients, some kind of bark and some kind of incense thing and like, go get it quickly. And so that guy runs off come back and then he's got like, nicotine has has like, some branches I think with some things that he's got like an incense thing. So it's like smoking out. So So it's basically like a chain. And at the end of the chain is like a big, I don't know, bowl type of enclosed bowl thing and there's smoke coming out. So there's some kind of hot coals in there. This like burning something is making smoke and so then he goes in, he's got his, quote tools, his exorcism tools, and he goes into the room. And they made this part like, pretty, pretty scary. In my opinion, it was a little bit more, they pushed, they pushed an edge that like kind of what you said earlier, you wouldn't see the type of a thing in any kind of Christian type production. I wouldn't expect they're not pulling any punches. It's like yes, this lady is in severe torment. And it's a it's a demonic possession. And she's just kind of like moving around on the floor you don't see her face it's just the back of the face and then it comes to the point he's like talking and like the her like the stuff that's coming I have no not even say like her voice because it's not her voice it's like what the noises are coming out of her vocal cords are changing and getting more intense and then she like turns to look at him as he's like saying the stuff that he's saying he's like I juror you get out leave this woman alone. And like then it like her face turns to look at them. And the way that they did that was wow, I was really on the edge of my seat. What are your thoughts? This

David Eckl 47:32 

like the story is in the Bible, so it is true. And I like initially you said that you watched it with your kids this

Lance Foulis 47:41 

Oh, we didn't watch this scene with the kid. Okay, okay. Well, that's all day would have nightmares for a while

David Eckl 47:45 

because I don't know how they would be able to do it. But I think

Lance Foulis 47:49 

it was the episode The next step or three episode three which is with the kids that's the one episode they've seen

David Eckl 47:54 

the what we initially talked about to the theatrics of it yes show. You know that look, and I do vividly remember that image of Mary looking at Nicodemus in what is going on is scary. Yeah, like it is very much like anything could happen. Yeah, Ines. But also at the same time, it's one of those things that keeps you coming back for more. Yeah, this demon possessed person Mary is now changing. It's coming out of her in some way. Yeah, she is going to change and do something else. And it's like, we had no other history or story of Mary at the start of this other than when she was with her dad initially. Yep. And then she young innocent kid. Exactly. And then she goes into this state over after years of torment to be able to get to this and now it's going to be a massive change to be in doing something to glorify, what's to come and that's just amazing. Yes. And I know Nicodemus in the future in this story to it, he goes into talking a little bit more about you know, what he saw there? And what he had to go through and I mean, that's just one of those notches on the belt or it's like wait, you went and faced a demon possessed person and said these things and we're in that room? I just couldn't believe what it would be like no real time outside of shooting this for the for the show, but it just unbelievable.

Lance Foulis 49:19 

Yeah, like the fact that he even had the courage to go into the room is wild because if I encountered something like that in real life one I wouldn't know what to do and to just you don't know what you're gonna face when you get in there and you're trying to do something like he went in there and Elise tried Now obviously, like it failed, because the thing talked through Mary like after she is basically like, what did what did what did it say these like, we don't know you or we don't care essentially, like we're not listening to you. We don't have to listen to you. Like get out of here. We're done with you. And then he is like, just shocked and basically he just leaves in And she's not okay. And then that's that's basically the end of the scene. Yeah. It was, it was a very intense scene. Any other thoughts there?

David Eckl 50:09 

I don't know how Nicodemus like he was obviously told to do it. He was going to save this, Mary, you know, he didn't know what was going to come out of it, he was going to give it his best effort to being able to healer. And has just like, that's the reality of it. Some people have that still today. And it's even seeing that how he had dealt with it was just for me, it was It was eye opening, because I'd never seen that before. In anything. Yeah. And reading it. In the Bible, you don't get that kind of context of what the video or picture of it would, would be able to show you.

Lance Foulis 50:48 

Yeah, it's one thing to read in the Bible that this, you know, so and so is demon possessed, and the demons would throw him on the ground. And he would convulse for a few minutes. Like, it's like, you read that and you don't go okay. But then when you see it portrayed like that, they did it in this were like this individuals in torment, and they're, they can't do anything to help themselves in that situation is very eerie and freaky. And yeah, eye opening. I think you said that.

David Eckl 51:14 

It's not like you have the popcorn bowl right next to and you're grabbing it to eat more of it. You're like, not blinking. eyes focused? Yeah, every single second of it. And it's like, wait, what? Like, this is going to come out of this person, and she's going to be completely different. It's like, what,

Lance Foulis 51:32 

how do we get there? Yeah. How in the world are we going to get there? Yeah. One thing to call out here, because like her name, and my little like, website here, we know her as Lillith right now, we haven't made the connection that it's Mary. It's good point. Because that's a that's a very important thing is that we know this individual that her name is Lilith, and we don't know anything else about her other than what we've described, but nobody's called her Mary in this point. Sure. Because that's a very important thing for the close of the episode we're getting to so anyway, basically, that after Nicodemus leaves, some time passes, and then we find Lilith waking up. And she wakes up. This is important because she she has like a flashback of being with her father. And I think in this scene, yeah, she gets her she finds her doll. And like in the doll is the piece of paper she pulls out and it's the that scripture from Isaiah and so she's kept it this whole time, is she's looking at it now after having gone through this episode. And you can kind of tell like, this has happened to her before. She's just so done. I'm so sick of having to go through this stuff like can't anything like no nothing can and then she I think she rips up the piece of paper, which is a very like intense like, she had been carrying it this whole time. So whatever breaking point she is, she's at it is an intense breaking point, because she's taken this thing that she's kept with her, essentially came from her father cheese destroying it was a very intense scene,

David Eckl 53:03 

very intense, especially something now you've had for that many years. And then you've gotten to that breaking point to be able to do that it's eye opening to see that and I remember, even in future episodes, she ends up reciting that verse from from memorization. So it's something that she still has in her heart that she's living with. But the symbolism of her taking that piece of paper and tearing it up seems like you know, there's a breaking point that she just had to kind of forget that maybe the past that she just went through a page turned to what's going to come.

Lance Foulis 53:37 

Yep, that's good. All right. And so then we go back to last, these are the basically the last couple scenes here. We'll go through these kind of quickly. So it's tax day, and people are going to the tax booth to pay their taxes. So we are we witness Andrew and Simon going to the tax booth where Matthew is Matthew is revealed to be their tax collector, and they get there and they basically figure out that because of back taxes and everything else that they owe way more than they are Andrew was way more than they thought and Andrew cannot pay his taxes. And he's at the point, okay, we can't pay your taxes, you're gonna go to jail. Because if you couldn't pay your taxes, then you got thrown in jail where you would never be able to pay your taxes. So you basically that's it, you're you're done your life's over. And then that's when Simon tells Matthew and reveals, hey, I've got a I have an agreement with the main Roman magistrate and the magistrate. I was looking this up yesterday. I should have had this up on my on my iPad here. But a magistrate is somebody who has like pretty extensive authority. right in line with Caesar. So Simon is basically saying he has an arrangement on his taxes and Andrews taxes with the magistrate Quintus Who was the guy who was bossing Nicodemus around at the beginning of the episode and So he's basically telling Matthew Hey, you know, we don't, we won't be owing taxes because of the arrangement. Once I'm done with what I'm doing for Quintus all my taxes and all Andrews taxes will be done. And Matthew being Matthew, he doesn't believe them. Because Matthew is like, no, like you're not trustworthy, it just something doesn't make sense. There's no way you could have made this arrangement. So he doesn't believe him. But that's essentially where that scene ends. Did you have any thoughts there?

David Eckl 55:24 

The image I have from that Matthew, collecting taxes right outside of it is the Roman guard. standing there like kind of just making sure everything's kind of going to order is yes, yeah. And guys is when he hears Andrew and Simon talk, he's like, something's not right with these guys. Something's up. So

Lance Foulis 55:41 

it's kind of side looking like what's going on over there?

David Eckl 55:44 

Yes. and Canada. He is Gaius is Matthews kind of guard to go take him around to places and they chose to create an interesting relationship over time, but like, Matthew is truly protected because of Gaius. But also in this scene, it's interesting to see like, where you pay taxes it's not like you know, they're taken out of your paycheck you know, you're surely going to this huddle, you

Lance Foulis 56:08 

have to show up with your your funds in hand. Yes. And pay it stop what you're doing. No, you cannot go work during this time. You have to show up and you have to bring your taxes and if you don't do it, you're gonna be in a world of hurt. Yes.

David Eckl 56:20 

Pay what to Caesar. What is Caesar's,

Lance Foulis 56:22 

again, like just the feeling that you get, it's just the burden on these people to do what? To pay their taxes to do what they need to do. It's just the burden feels very heavy. As you're as you're watching it.

David Eckl 56:35 

It'd be interesting. If that was today, though. Yeah. When I was thinking about it, like, how would you put yourself in their shoes, like you get your paycheck today, but every month, you have to go to this hut? Stand in line, and pay it?

Lance Foulis 56:49 

Yeah, cuz right now, dude, like, we don't have to see how much taxes are coming out of our paycheck. Yeah, we just get our direct deposit and, and then every time you look at your, your, your check in, you're like, wait, you took how much? My paycheck would have been? What? So like, it is kind of funny that to your point is like, they have to like show up and like, here's my taxes. And it's not like you're getting anything. I mean, technically you're, I guess not getting invaded by barbarians or whatever. But

David Eckl 57:17 

yeah, that's the ledger. Lance, is kind of

Lance Foulis 57:21 

in front of everybody, right? Like, you'd have to go to this tax person. And they clearly have an idea who Matthew is. He's an Israelite, and he's telling them you have this Oh, and because you didn't pay here, and he's doing like math. And you remember, he's like doing math in his head with his fingers. So you can tell like, he's very gifted with numbers. But this guy is basically telling you like, no, that's not enough. What you just brought isn't enough, you need that. So like you're already like, in a state of humility. Like in that situation, the other guy wins. Because what are you going to do? You can't argue in this situation,

David Eckl 57:51 

maybe I'm okay with how taxes are taken. The moral of the story is, but I'll a lot of times in this, I put myself and my myself in the shoes of what these people had to go through back in the day. And yeah, this is a situation where I would be like, I don't really want to do that. Yeah, but obviously, systems change and all this stuff. And obviously, it's not, it's not how it's done today, here. But a lot of times in this whole situation like what would you do if you were Nicodemus, would you have gone right and healed? Mary? Would you have said no rolling Roman guards? You take care of them? Yep. Interesting. Yes. Across the board.

Lance Foulis 58:31 

Yes. 100%. Agreed. Yeah. And that's one good thing about there's so many different characters, and they are all relatable in some way. Matthew's state of security is very relatable, because like, he's, he's well fed. He's well, he has what he well clothed. He's got shoes on his feet, he's got a stable position. So like, that's relatable in the sense of like, what would it take for me to stop like, Where? Where are my morals? Where's my sense of? Yeah, Where's where's my moral sense? And like, what would need to be going on to where I would not choose the security that I'm having? I get that kind of feeling for Matthew, and then in with Simon and Andrew, it's like, oh, my gosh, like, how, how am I going to make it through this? How am I going to get the funds to pay and like, what I have to do whatever it takes, and I'm willing to do not necessarily whatever it takes, but I'm willing to do some things that I wouldn't necessarily be willing to do, but I have to do it. Otherwise, I'm sunk. So everybody's, there's just something relatable about every single character and I find myself in each kind of like what you were saying putting myself in their shoes and being like, oh, man, I kind of get like a real taste of what they're doing and why they're doing it. Yeah. So

David Eckl 59:45 

what we first talked about, was about how they went to Nicodemus and said, there's people fishing on quote unquote, Shabbat, which we are now as the Sabbath day the rest and thank you Got that, like, would you if you needed to make ends meet? Would you go and fish on the Sabbath? To try to catch fish to be able to feed everyone and make ends meet? Would you do that, and it's just one of those situations that I was thinking about, it's like, maybe that's what it comes to, or else I have to go to jail. Like, at that point, it's like I'm at between a rock and a hard place. And I have to go do that, to make ends meet. So it's just one of those situations that, you know, other thing that I put myself in the shoes of the people, and it's, it's true, you know, that's what it is today. And that's what it is back then what it is today, it's like, you know, you have to make ends meet, you have to do whatever it takes to be able to provide for what we see in Simon and Eden, but also your family. And this is what Matthew is doing. I mean, the tax collector, you know, does he have to do this? I mean, that's what he wanted to do. And that's where he chose to do. Does he want to do it? I'm not sure.

Lance Foulis 1:00:55 

Right. Right. That's yeah, that's great. Okay, the final scene, what an epic final scene this is. So basically, what ends up happening is we get we cut to Mary, again, we know her as Lillith. And she, I think she goes to a bar and she basically just drinks a bunch. And then the bartender who's a eunuch is basically like, he knows her called calling her Lola, this Lillith he has an idea of what's happened, you can kind of tell, and he's just trying to encourage her like, Hey, you're gonna be fine. You're gonna make it stay here as long as you like, eat this food. And she's like, No, what's the point? Like she's at, she's at, she's at rock bottom. She's at the end. And I can't remember if I've got this in the order. So correct me if you know, but I think I think that's what happens. And then she goes, or I have it in reverse. But basically, it might be reverse. She, I think she goes, Uh, yeah, I think she goes to the bar, and then she leaves the bar. And you can kind of tell that this bartender guy doesn't want her to leave, because he kind of has an idea that she might do something that he doesn't want her to do. And she just leaves anyway, she goes to a cliff edge, and she's ready to throw herself off the cliff. She's ready to just end it all. And then a dove flies by. And then she follows the duff. Do I have that right? Yeah. Is that what you remember?

David Eckl 1:02:18 

Yes. And then she see Jesus. Is that where we introduced the Jesus at the end of this?

Lance Foulis 1:02:25 

We Yeah, but it happens some other let me read this here following a suicide attempt. Lillith loses hope and her condition she notices the dove and falls all the way to the hammer, which is the bar that I was talking about. She enters the tavern. And she sits down she's like, give me a drink. And I don't remember if they fight or like if the gods like, I'm not giving you a drink, and then she's like, just give me a friggin drink. And then they pour the drink. And then she goes to take it and then as she goes to take it a hand comes like is placed on her hand. But had I right? Yes. Okay, so over top of Yeah, the hand was over the hand and then and then she's like, wait, what and she looks over. And then that's when we're in we don't know who it is. But the the facial features and everything is so well done by the actor that plays Jesus Jonathan Rooney. I looked up how to pronounce the last name it is Rumi ROUM. Ie unless the website I saw it was wrong. He but he said something like That's not for you. And then she starts one tell that happens with Lilith is like, if something is happening with this is this is my interpretation. It's not spelled out anytime. But she like sticks her fingers on her head because it's like she's getting like severe pain in the middle of her forehead. And so she'll like, have like, act like she just suddenly having a migraine, which to me is like, the demons inside of her are causing her torment. So like, it's almost like they know that the demons inside know who this person is. And then they start doing this, she starts doing this thing that she's done throughout the episode where she's holding on her forehead. You guys can't see me but I'm like acting it out. Like I have my hands on my forehead. And I'm like squinting, my eyes shut. And then she's just like, leave me alone. And then she walks out. And then as she's walking out, I think it cuts into like slow motion. It's epic cinematography, really, really well done. And then I'm pretty sure you just see Jesus in the background because it's her like, it's close up of her face, but you can kind of see behind her and you can see the guy that told her to, this isn't for you. He's standing in the doorway. And then he says Mary Wright? Yes. Mary Magdalene. Yeah, he's called her by name. And then she just stopped. She's just in shock. And then she turns around

David Eckl 1:04:43 

and sees them and then is epic. Yeah, just so well done. And just the introduction of them. Obviously, you're going through, you know, the first episode like when am I gonna see Jesus and it's like, okay, well, yeah, it's a series about Jesus. Yes. When am I gonna see him next and it's like Bam, like Mary's the first one to be introduced to him. Yeah, it's, it's great that he's like, I always think about Jesus and God being on time, like Jesus is on time where she is going to take another drink, and then puts his hand over her and says, This is not for you. Yeah. And like, what was going to happen? Like, obviously, she was going to continue doing something that she probably wouldn't want or wouldn't agree with. And now everything changes. Yeah. And that just in an introduction of him to her.

Lance Foulis 1:05:29 

Yeah. Yeah. And so like, the scene kind of closes with him quoting to her the verse, you No Fear not for I have called you by name. You are mine. Like, I'm paraphrasing, but he quotes it to her. And she just realizes, like, there's no way you should know my story. And like, then he basically like, takes her by that head or something. He he embraces her something and like, you can just tell the torments gone. The demons are done. Yeah,

David Eckl 1:05:59 

that's a good thing that you said that about, like, what she was doing and clenching her head, you know that something was going on in terms of a headache or the demons were, you know, in her body still and like, Wait, something's going on. But they knew who was there and who was in her presence. And that is just like, the visual of that was fantastic.

Lance Foulis 1:06:19 

Yeah, I literally, I think we I think Kim and I have watched season one three or four times. I don't not have tears coming. I'm not like crying or weeping. But I don't Well, I can't watch that last scene without tears. Just yeah, just go on.

David Eckl 1:06:35 

It is for Katie, nine when we watched it was like we are just glued to the TV. Like nothing else is going on around us. And it's just straight focus. You help because you're in awe. Yeah. Of what is going on? Yeah. And what this book that we are accustomed to, is showing us it's come alive. Yeah, it's come alive. It's jumped off the page in us. And we are just like, wow, we are putting two and two together. And this is fantastic. Yeah.

Lance Foulis 1:07:03 

Yeah. It's so well done. So yeah, if you haven't seen it, you definitely need to go see it. You can you can watch these apps. You can watch all of season one on Amazon Prime. I just checked out yesterday. I believe you can watch. Probably all of season one on YouTube. It's yeah,

David Eckl 1:07:19 

it's they have their own app. And it's really really cool. I felt led in watching it where they have this pay it forward. Yep. Technique. Yep. Where it's like you can watch for free. It's, there's no subscription to it. Yep. But if you want to, you can donate five bucks, 10 bucks, whatever. And pay it forward for someone else to watch it. Yep. And that is fantastic. Where I think it's going to fund future season. Exactly. I paid like 2025 bucks. And it was a donation. And I gotten 10 emails the next day saying you let someone in the Netherlands Watch this. Oh, yeah. Different language. And I was like, wow, that is really cool to be able to do it. And it's like, it could be someone that is, you know, just getting into it for the first time. It's someone that could be rewatching it Yeah, that was cool. Like that. I really, really liked that idea that they're doing that.

Lance Foulis 1:08:06 

Yeah. Yeah, that's that's really good point. It's, it's kind of funny, because I just literally kind of pointed people to Amazon Prime and YouTube, which I guess it's fine. But yeah, you can download the app on your device. You can watch all the episodes from both seasons, on the device of your choice. And you can we watched them on our laptop. You can stream them on your TV, though. There's plenty of ways to watch it. But yeah, to your point, if you want to support this show, right? Like, you don't have to pay to watch it. But if you do, I forgot, because like they are translating it into other languages and everything, just like

David Eckl 1:08:41 

50 languages. 5050 Wow, are they translating it to it's like that retreat there is just amazing. Yeah, like 50 different languages.

Lance Foulis 1:08:51 

So like, it's an international phenomenon at this point. And it is all crowd funded. So a couple interesting facts. Dallas Jenkins, the director, he was actually in Hollywood, he was up and coming like he was going to be super successful. He did a movie The resurrection of somebody or something. You can look it up Dallas, Dallas Jenkins movie. And it bombed. And he thought his career was essentially over because if if you do a movie and everybody believes in you and you do a movie, and it bombs apparently I guess you're done which I guess makes sense. But he thought was over then he had the idea to do like a short and like it was very organic how he ended up doing this but yeah, like we said he's doing they've funded you know, to Dave's point they've they've funded season three so we know we're gonna get to season three. And they're trying to get to seven seasons. So yeah, I mean, if you go watch it for free, you should definitely support it. You can get merch you they got some sweet hoodies you can get

David Eckl 1:09:51 

it was the craziest thing. Katie and I when we first watched it, we were hooked on it. Kids would go to bed we'd watch it, you know a couple episodes here and there. It was during season one of the first time we watched it and I think it was the next day. We finished season one we I went to a local ice cream place with got ice cream for the family. I turn around. And this lady behind me was wearing a chosen t shirt. Yeah, at the time. And how Mike? That is awesome. That's so cool. I just what it is sparked a conversation like Yeah, isn't that TV series? Awesome. Oh, great. Yeah. And it was just like, that is awesome. Like, I feel like I need to be supporting them and wearing a shirt. Yeah. And that would be cool. But I just felt like that was awesome. Like, what are the chances and I'm watching this right now currently in it. And I go and see someone that's wearing a shirt like that is really cool.

Lance Foulis 1:10:42 

Yeah, I 100% agree. So where we're at here now, Dave is we're an hour and 11 minutes in. So we're not going to get through the eight episodes, that's fine in in the next 20 minutes. So let's go ahead and do just like a quick for episode two, which is Shabbat, we won't go through it scene by scene. And then we'll just you can just come back and we'll do the rest of the season. Okay, in. In other iterations, so Shabbat, I'm just going to kind of look through this real quick. Let's see. So basically, yeah, we, we kind of get introduced because I've really the whole, this whole episode is about Shabbat. So we got a flashback, you know, of a time before the setting of the actual show. So again, like, years and years and years before the time period of the actual show, there is just a scene of Israelite people getting ready for Shabbat and so you can just kind of see what Shabbat might have looked like, for an Israelite family way, way, way back before Jesus. And then, basically, when we cut to our actual characters that we know some people see Mary, all in her normal situations. One thing we didn't talk about with Episode One is that Nicodemus his final conclusion, after fleeing, Mary was that only God can heal something that's going on like this. And he's teaches this to the other Pharisees because they're like, he has to explain what happened cuz he's very, like, shaken by what happened. We get to see that in a couple of scenes in a scene with his wife in the first episode that we didn't talk about. But basically, he basically presents to these people, like some people are so far gone, that only God could could do something about I, you know, that's why it failed, essentially. So one of the Pharisees basically sees Mary we know it's Mary now not Lilith is in her total right? Mind. She's just walking around the town just doing whatever

David Eckl 1:12:54 

smile on her face, you're happy as can be. Yep.

Lance Foulis 1:12:57 

And so the Pharisee that sees her, it's just like, well, what is going on? And he goes back and reports it. And then Nicodemus can't believe it. And so he goes back and then he finds her in her right mind. So what are some things that stood out to you about kind of that?

David Eckl 1:13:13 

Yeah, so go like, you know, see it, watch it in their own eyes, you know that it's that word of mouth type thing, and they wanted to go actually see it in person where they were both. I remember Nicodemus was very much so like, what is going on here? I can't believe it. There's no way that she was

Lance Foulis 1:13:30 

going away. She's in her right mind all of a sudden,

David Eckl 1:13:32 

absolutely not. And even seeing that and her like, right mindedness that, you know, you have to kind of go back to season or to the first episode to put together that what Nicodemus did was really the start of Jesus coming out to saying, hey, like, I'm here, I'm, I'm present. This is my call. This is my time. And seeing that and now with Mary and like, it's a complete 360 In terms of what she was like, it's the first episode to now or she's smile on her face. She looks happy as can be. Nothing's wrong with her. It just it's completely complete change.

Lance Foulis 1:14:09 

And refresh my memory. I feel like Jesus doesn't tell her his name. I don't think so. Because, yeah, because she gets questioned later. And she's like, I don't know who it was. But I was one way. And then after I, after he came to me, now I'm completely different. That's one of the famous lines in it, which we'll we'll kind of get to that in a second. But yeah, so I mean, I guess I'll just go ahead and say it because it's one of the parts we don't need to go through it like scene by scene, but Nicodemus eventually finds her in the city. And he calls her Lilith, and she's like, don't call me That's not my name. And then she's like, Okay, fine. And she's like, my name is Marian. So he's like, he's just very overwhelmed and wants to find out what happened because it doesn't make sense to him. Something really incredible has to have happened. And he asked her like, what happened? What's different and she's like, Somebody came in did something that's what's different. And I don't know his name, she's like it because he wants to know who this person is because he wants to find this person because it's just not making sense. And he wants to, like, genuinely he wants to know what's going on. Because at first, she doesn't want to talk to him at all, because people like him that she's encountered before, generally want nothing to do with her and haven't treated her well. So she doesn't have a good, she doesn't really want him to be around. And he's very, like, No, I just, I just want to talk, just tell me what happened. And then she's basically like, I don't know his name, I don't know who he is. But this person I encounter now and completely different. That's one of the famous lines from the chosen series. So anything else about that? Or about the episode in general that you want to mention?

David Eckl 1:15:44 

It was another kind of one of those things where, you know, we're starting to see the change that's going to come from people. Yeah. And it's really going to move through different, you know, three different people and characters that are in there. And you know, we got introduced to the fight called Five people now, there's going to be more mixings of more people throughout what we're going to see in here and just like what Nicodemus saw, and now what he's telling people, is, you know, hey, only God can do these things. Now. Now he's saying that, okay, well, what is he going to start doing? You know, and what is he What is His ministry and now change to from what he saw. And it's that kind of like one main staple that he saw now with Mary walking around is that now his whole premise is going to change because of this one interaction as one change where it's like something like that happens to you. That's all you want to talk about. Right now. That's the talk of the town. Let's talk about the Pharisees. Now what is going to change with them is going to be something that we're really going to look forward to throughout this whole series.

Lance Foulis 1:16:45 

Yes, yes. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's very all everything you just said is very, very, very well put. But yeah, the things that he say that when he's saying like, only God can heal this person and then then this person is clearly in our white right mind. And Nicodemus has been a really interesting character they've been setting up because he is at his station for a good reason. He does know a lot of things, but you can just tell there's just there's wonder. In him when he talks about things he he almost like comes across as like, I know a lot but I really don't know anything. And like, what if God is just, he's like, what we know. But what if he's, what if he's a lot different to what if? What if we've only scratched the surface? Like the things that he's kind of curious about and then how this interaction with Mary kind of like sparks something when he knows that when he sees that she's okay, then it's almost like he's not, he's not talking about in thinking about God in academic sense anymore. It's like a what he's like talking and thinking about God and who God could be in like, the state of wonder and like, almost like, giddy like a kid, like, oh my gosh, like, this is a miracle. That's one thing that they say like, this is definitely a miracle like what happened. And that's like a word that has more meaning than wood for you. And I, you can kind of tell like, when they say the word miracle that has something to do, like in their faith, it has something to do with God like something that's impossible that you witnessed it, and you can't believe that it just happened. But it did just happen in front of your face. And it's that kind of like, level of like, all that you get from him. And yeah, you can kind of just start seeing things changing for him. As as Marissa has clearly had major changes, right? I think

David Eckl 1:18:30 

you probably have heard this term before. But Jesus has flipped the script in the script back then. And that's what it was. Nicodemus was truly by the law of the time and now that curiosity that spark in him is like, Wait, what is going on here? And it completely changes like I think about the tables, you know, the temple being overturned, like that's what that's what is happening everything is just being overturned in this whole new quote unquote, wave is coming in of change and restoration in life. And it's like, it's here, you know, they talked about it and even what we hear from Nicodemus is that something is coming well is this Jesus that that is talked about in the book of the coming of the Son is the time now Yeah, and that's that spark that gives you know the show some of that life to saying like, Oh, here Here comes you know, wheels are turning Yeah, well are getting curious and interested in it's, it's alive, and it kind of jumps off the screen at you. You kind of feel like I'm excited talking about right now. Yeah, just reliving it like it's great. It's great. I want to watch the episode two again. Yeah, no, it's it's great. You know, it gives you that that reason for hope and restoration.

Lance Foulis 1:19:36 

Yeah, that's actually very, very well put. So I guess some of the other things that kind of happen is Simon and well, Matthew basically goes to the magistrate Quintus and basically talks to the magistrate is like, I don't think you should be trusting this guy. Is it true that you're even working with this guy and the magistrate is like, Wait, who? Oh, yeah, yeah, I like He's he is doing something for me. And then basically what we find out is that Simon agreed to find out so like we in the very first episode when Quintus this magistrate goes to Nicodemus, he's like, You need to make people stop fishing on Sabbath. I think it's because they're not getting tax money from it something to that effect, or they're not Rome, Rome wants to be in control where they're not in control that type of a thing. So we figured out as Simon has gotten himself into some kind of arrangement with this Quintus guy, where he's going to figure out who is fishing on Shabbat, and then he's gonna turn them over, he's gonna, he's gonna go to Quintus and be like, I figured out who it is, it's these people, so you can throw him in jail, and then he's gonna get his taxes taken care of, or something like that. It's like this arrangement. So it's a very seedy arrangement. And I believe in this episode. Let me just double check. Yep, yep. He Simon tells his brother Andrew, like, look, I did this arrangement. And because Andrew is like, wait, what arrangement did you have? And then Simon tells his brother Andrew, like, I'm going to figure out who's doing this. And and then Andrew is furious because he's like, these are these are own people that you're going to turn over to Rome. And then in his interaction with Quintus. Matthew is like, you shouldn't be trusting this guy, Simon. And then the magistrate is like, fairpoint. Okay, take this journal, and follow Simon around in report to me by writing down what's happening. And then come tell me if what you find and then we'll figure it out. And that way, if he's, if Simon doesn't deliver, I'll get him. If Simon does deliver, then I win. So he basically, the magistrate sets itself up in a win win. So it's

David Eckl 1:21:48 

almost like Simon's making a deal with the devil. Yes, you know, he's already in one foot deep. He's now going well, I'm gonna jump in full into this, you know, situation. And it's like, he's getting himself in a super hard place. Yeah, it's like, it's one of those things. It's like, I don't know if you want to do that. But you know, as it turns out, what will happen, but it was interesting to see just like the interaction and the tense, you know, talking, it's another one of those things that we have in the back of our mind that okay, now that's going on to let's watch what Matthew is going to do and right in his ledger, and be that kind of like, quote, unquote, spy. So let's see. Yeah, it's gonna be doing. Yeah. Yeah. And

Lance Foulis 1:22:27 

it's really interesting. Like, I think you've alluded to this throughout the podcast, too. But like, what you put yourself into somebody situations, you could make a decision that you wouldn't necessarily make, and maybe it's a negative decision. And kind of what we're getting the sense of, at this point is like, okay, Simon's made a couple of bad decisions. And now you kind of get the real feeling like, Okay, now he's in over his head, he made a couple of compromises that he probably shouldn't have made. And now he can't get out of the pickle he's in, there's no way out. And he doesn't want to necessarily turn people in, but he doesn't really have a choice. And so like, just the pickle that he's in, has, has gone from like what we saw in the first episode to like, oh, it's really, he's really in over his head. He's really in trouble.

David Eckl 1:23:16 

Yeah, it's, it's a little unsettling, especially what we see with Eden and what she is going to be, you know, kind of curious in terms of what she or what he's doing, it's going to be it's, it's, it's interesting. It's just, the best way to put it is I feel like he is already off the track and he's now going further off the track to make you know, away right, and what turns out to be is, you know, the only way to get back to it is to follow Jesus but you know, he's He's way out. Oh, yeah, he's

Lance Foulis 1:23:49 

way gone. He's way gone. And

David Eckl 1:23:51 

it's needs a miracle to be able to come back into into the fold. But yep, he's got a lot going against him and a lot going for him.

Lance Foulis 1:24:00 

He they're setting they're setting his story up really well. So really, the the last couple things to mention about episode two, from my perspective is kind of goes along. So it was really like, what's happening is like, we got Matthew Simon and Andrew we kind of got their thing going on. And we have Mary Nicodemus, and what's kind of going on with them. So Nicodemus gets called or I don't know if that's the right word, but there's somebody above him in again in this hierarchy of Israelite religious orders. This name of this character, bet din, I'm not even saying that up that Dean. That's how they set up that Dean. I think I have that right. But anyway, it's this guy who's important. So Nicodemus gets called into a court. That's the best way I can put it. He gets called into like a court room, which is actually I think, maybe it's a tent. I don't remember. But there's a guy sitting and it's the guy that I just mentioned, that Dean and basically CLAY it's come out that a miracles happen I think was Shmi well went to this this guy and he reports a miracle and and and that makes it a big deal so then all these people have to come in and give testimony and everything. So Nicodemus comes in and it's like, so so to your own account, Nicodemus, there was a girl that wasn't you nothing could be done and then you guys have seen her in the right mind. And so that therefore it's a miracle. Is that right? And And Nicodemus is like, let's not jump to any conclusions, because we don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill. So Nicodemus is like, let me investigate what happened myself, let me go talk to this person myself. She knows me she probably more comfortable than if we brought her in here. And I'll question her that might scare off or something like that. And that's what basically gets Nicodemus to go talk to Mary in the way that I just described. So it's kind of making like, things are happening, like you can't marry getting healed isn't just Mary getting healed. There's a lot of other things that that kind of affected. And so you can see that it's causing like a bit of a stir, I guess, did you have any, like a ripple effect or ripple effect?

David Eckl 1:26:10 

So what is going on? And you'd have to almost assume that everything before, this is kind of you know, people are just going about their own business. None of this is happening. And now all of a sudden, you have this Mary situation that comes up, you have people seeing it, you have people seen her walk around the streets, like, Wait, what happened here? And that it's that prick again, where it's like, you know that thing in your mind? It's like, Wait, what happened? Like, what's going on with this girl? Something is up. Yeah. And it's that intrigue, you know, for more of what's going on? And it's like, huh, let's watch her. And let's see what's going on. And they're always in there going back and asking, Well, what did you do in that room? Like, did you do anything? Was anyone else there? They're kind of questioning the process and what had gone on to be able to document it. Yeah, to be able to write it down and have a story about it. Which is,

Lance Foulis 1:27:00 

because it really it does you kind of get the sense of that what they ultimately want is the truth. Yes. But it's almost like they want to be in control. So they don't want

David Eckl 1:27:11 

that stuff to happen. Like they just want someone to go there and Hey, say

Lance Foulis 1:27:15 

unless it was them. If they had had it happen, then it probably good. But you get the sense that because Nicodemus was unsuccessful, that means that they don't know what's going on. And so therefore, they want to know the truth to know what's going on so that there's something that's not out of their control. 100% kind of feeling I think I got Yes, I completely agree. Okay, so then really the close of this episode is the Shabbat dinners is really interesting, because, I mean, they call it out right here that there's four different Shabbat dinners. So Mary this whole time, and there's almost dropped my battery charger for it is gonna kill me. That's hilarious. I didn't mean to do that soundbite but that is almost kind of appropriate. That's from the episode with Charles harder than marine season one. He did some he wasn't supposed to do in boot camp. And the the sergeant found them out and oh, that's a really fun soundbite. This is it is he's gonna kill me. So yeah, like literally the cord just hit that button. Just funny that that happened. Anyway. So Mary, throughout this episode, you can tell she's getting ready to do a Shabbat dinner and a Shabbat dinner is important, like weekly event where you're getting ready for Shabbat and Shabbat is the day where you don't work. We know it as a Sunday. Yes. And so she's getting ready to prepare Shabbat dinner. And the thing is like you have to do it a certain way. There's specific rituals and things that you want to do for your Shabbat dinner. So she's inviting different people that she knows to come over to her place and have a Shabbat dinner with her. And then Nicodemus he's getting to, you can have a completely different Shabbat dinner. And he's like the main guy like leading the Shabbat dinner, but then there's all these influential people that are going to show up and it's very fascinating that kind of Shabbat dinner he's going to have and he's going through his whole like, quote, coming to Jesus type moment. That's all in quotes. But he's like thinking he's questioning different things. He doesn't know what to think about this thing with Mary who's like, good and like he wasn't able to do anything. But clearly she's in her right mind. How is she in her right mind. And he's wrestling with that. And meanwhile, his wife is just not interested at all. In him questioning things. She just wants to have her fancy Shabbat dinner. And let's see Oh, and then we have Simon and Peter, or Simon and Andrew and eaten they're having a Shabbat dinner. And then who's the fourth year you can say whatever you want to if you want to just jump in there.

David Eckl 1:29:41 

I think just the importance of the Shabbat dinner like it's the importance of the day but then also to celebrate bringing together what we see what they can Demas, your family members, but then also marry, you know, showing the importance of what that weekly dinner was and preparing it the right way and just that ritual type of weekend. Yeah, activity where it was a the day's important, but it's just as important as having this dinner, and really focusing on getting your mind right and body right throughout the week by having on this day. And that to me when I was watching it like just the importance of what the Sabbath is, I kind of put two and two together of like, wow, there's also some importance back in our own lives to be able to do this on our own situation and stance, where it's like, have a family dinner, have you know, friends over, do that kind of dinner and break bread and prepare it the right way, and celebrate what were called to do. So seeing this in here and the importance of what Mary did, and even with Simon and Peter and or Simon Peter, and then also Andrew, and Eden is like, Okay, that was cool to bring it all together, and have that weekly type thing and showing that and the importance of breaking bread together.

Lance Foulis 1:30:54 

Yeah. Yeah. The Yeah, the community aspect of it is really interesting. Community and Family because like, you have the family, Andrew and Simon and Eden, they're doing it as a family because I think it was just the three of them having their dinner.

David Eckl 1:31:10 

Don't you see Jesus can't like Jesus comes into Mary's yes to Mary's yeah, that's,

Lance Foulis 1:31:15 

that's the amazing closure. And then the fourth that I forgot about was actually Matthew. So he prepares something. And then he walks to, we don't know what he's doing. But he walks to a house and he starts looking at what's going on. And we figure out that his parents, so you find out that he isn't welcome. But he still knows what Shabbat is, he knows what Shabbat dinner is. And he ends up seeing his family from a distance he won't go. So you're wondering kind of okay, why do they not accept him? Probably not. That's kind of a feeling like you get. And then he basically just sits down and has his own food. And that's when we get introduced to the dog. This, I don't think he ever gets it. I don't think this dog ever gets a name. But this dog basically just becomes Matthew's dog. His dog finds Matthew and is following him around. And I guess maybe they share of Shabbat meal together. But that's, that's a fascinating another one, because then it's this, this kind of Outcast type of a person who still knows that he is in this community. But he's also aware, meaning the Israelite community, but also he's not welcomed in the community. And now we find out he's not seemingly not welcomed in his own family. Right, which is a really interesting contrast from the other. And it kind of makes gives you a little bit more of a gives you some feeling, I guess, maybe for Matthew, and what else must be going on in his story?

David Eckl 1:32:40 

Yeah, it was interesting to see, obviously, you know, what he chose to do with his career, to choose Rome over his faith. And now because of that, he is very much so kind of this isolated individual who really doesn't have a place other than just spending time with himself, the dog kind of befriends them in it, and when he goes through the city when he's working Roman guards always with him, and it's like, okay, you know, he's really that Outcast type of person. Yes, you know, you kind of feel your heart kind of gets a little tug, you know, towards them. It's like, Man, I feel bad that he made this decision. Sure. He's super smart. He's got, you know, like you said earlier, the math skills, he's doing all that together, you know, behind the scenes, and it's like, I feel sorry for him that he chose this route. But obviously, God's going to use them in a way that's going to, you know, bring glory to Him. It's, but it's interesting to see just what he chose to do to kind of disown his family, the people around them and be that tax collector for the people in the city.

Lance Foulis 1:33:39 

Yeah, it's an interesting take. Because like, throughout the throughout what we have seen so far, you can see the desperate situation that Simon's in you can see the desperate situation that Andrew is in, and it's all about, like, I need more, I'm gonna I'm gonna lose it. And then Matthew is in a completely different situation, because he's got all these resources. He's got the nice place, he's got the nice outfit. He doesn't seem to super care about it. He's got like, super expensive sandals, he's got the job he's got his life is kind of in order, you can kind of tell he's got an order to his life. But seeing him on Shabbat, you can kind of tell like, he's so aware, even with all that he has in, in comparison to what the other characters that we know. He's got a lot but he also has lost a lot. And you kind of get that sense. Yeah, he's

David Eckl 1:34:28 

he's broken outside of his work. What he's doing during the day, where at night, weekends, Shabbat, he's very much lonely. You know, he doesn't have much going on. Yep. For him. And it's sad. Yeah. Is that

Lance Foulis 1:34:43 

Yeah. And then, the final thing that happens, which you alluded to is Mary is having her Shabbat and she's not. You can just tell she doesn't really know what she's doing. She's just doing it as, as best as she can. Because you're seeing like Nicodemus is Shabbat and he's because you're supposed to be sight and do all these different things. There's formal things to do. There's formal things that you're supposed to serve, there's things that you're supposed to do. So there's like, there's a whole like, ceremony to it. And there's a specific way of doing things. And you can kind of tell she doesn't know what she's doing. But she's doing as best she can. She just invited a couple of random people that she knows her as the blind woman who comes with the kind of lame beggar guy, they kind of show up together. And then there's like one or two other people, and then one seat is open. And then I think she says something that, like, you're supposed to have an open seat for Elijah, or there's something that she says, like, you're supposed to have an open seat, and then there's a knock at the door. And she gets up and she goes and answers the door. And then she's face to face with the guy. She had no, his name still, she's face to face with a guy that fixed her up seemingly that she met and she was one way now she's completely different. And then he walks right in, he takes that seat. There is something about that. I don't remember if I got that, right. But she was like, I was told when I was a little girl that we were supposed to leave the seat open for something. And then he walks in. He takes that seat seat. And there's something symbolic about that. I just can't remember.

David Eckl 1:36:10 

The I Am the I am that person. Yeah, that is just like you watch that you kind of get a little Shigella chills? Yeah. Like, whoa, like that was? That was cool. Yeah, that was awesome. And again, you put that face to the name. Now again, now we're seeing him again. In episode tune. It's like,

Lance Foulis 1:36:28 

and it's not until the end of the episode. Yeah, once again, once again, Jesus does not have a key part until the very end. But then when he takes the seat, I think they should I think Mary was like, this is the person that I told you about that helped me and they're like, oh, what's your name? He's like, I'm Jesus of Nazareth. And then the I think it was the beggar dude says something like Nazareth Can anything good come of Nazareth, which is a famously quoted lines in Scripture, because Nazareth, Nazareth was considered a less than great place. And nobody expected the Messiah of God to come from a place like that. They always expected him to come from a place of more notoriety. So it was just fun, fun little connections for people. Yes,

David Eckl 1:37:09 

I know, you're paying attention to everything that's going on in the episode. But then like, when you see Jesus and him talking, and what he's gonna say you're like, I don't know, it's, it's tenfold what you're gonna listen to try to like, pick out from it. It's awesome. Yeah, I'm so like, you know, hyped up to hear what he has to say. Because, yeah, you know, you know, the words that he's spoken, but you want to hear them from his mouth from his mouth. Yeah.

Lance Foulis 1:37:31 

Because I mean, it's funny because like, Jesus shows up, and like, you've, if you've read the Bible, you've read the gospels. And so you've read the stories. You've heard the stories of what Jesus did and, and what he said and how he said it. And you've probably heard people, like preachers talk about what Jesus said and why he said it. So like, the store, the series does a really good job of like owning its research and had I mean, they've had like, rabbis, they've had academics, theologians, all these people kind of come in and give their two cents on what was going on in the backgrounds during the Gospels and what Jesus would have been doing and why he would have been doing it and the depth of meaning behind some of the things that he did that you wouldn't know unless you had a more deeper understanding. So like, the show does a really good job of having Jesus do stuff and probably the fashion that he did it. And the reasons behind why he just said what he said, and like, if you're not paying attention, you'll miss something. And there's something that when Jesus is saying something, when the that act, and the actor does a fantastic job of portraying Jesus, I think really brings the character to life. But there's something about it where yeah, like, he says something if something happens, you get little goosebumps on Yeah. And even if you're not like you and I were we grew up like learning this kind of stuff. I think that there's definitely something for you there because she says kind of this larger than life. Character. Yeah,

David Eckl 1:38:59 

he's he's so good with his words, or He's witty, and he's able to kind of give this like, you know, one or two or three word response that's just captivating. Yes, that is like, Whoa, he said that. Yeah, that is amazing. Like, even like when he sat down, I believe he said, I am. Like, even in those words, it's like, I am like,

Lance Foulis 1:39:20 

I never put that together until you said that that is so powerful. Yeah.

David Eckl 1:39:23 

But like even the larger thing is, I forgot that that si was open forum and hearing that it's like wow, like that is powerful. Yeah. So powerful.

Lance Foulis 1:39:33 

Yeah, they do such a good job. And like, again, I can't wait for season three but so at this point, we're at an an hour and 40 minutes in so this is a long podcast, and we've only got I don't know why I thought we would get through like all the episodes, but there there's just a lot to talk about. So I'll have David back and we'll we'll talk about more chosen chosen episodes and chosen review. But I just I think my final thoughts and then I'll let you kind of Say your final thoughts, but I'll go first so you can think about what your final thoughts are. But yeah, I mean, like the series is just so exceptionally well done. It's very accessible. No matter who you are, no matter your background, there's a lot of things that you can stream and a lot of things that you watch. I, Natalie and I talked about it. So we worked with net David and I worked with with Natalie, way back. So the podcast with Natalie Baldwin, when we talk about being in the same department and doing a lot of stuff, David was in that office with us, we were doing a lot of the same things. And Natalie and I talked about watching Game of Thrones. And that show is definitely not for kids. It's fair is for a very mature audience. And I watched it. And it's got stuff in there. That's really not not great. Anyway, that series ended. And it was so disappointing how it ended. It was not well done. But you know, it, it is what it is. But this isn't like that kind of a show, it's accessible, there's nothing that you're going to see that you're going to be like, No, I could have probably probably would have been nice if I just never seen that in my life. Right? Or been exposed to that in my life, that probably wasn't the best thing. You're not gonna get that from this series. But it's a really well done series. The characters are excellent, the character development is excellent. It's very historical. If you do read the Bible, or if you ever did read the Bible, or you were ever curious about the life of Jesus, it would be fascinating to go who read through the gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and then bits of x. And then watch this series, then watch that because it does, you mentioned that it really makes that stuff that you read come to life. And it makes you I always, I always feel more in awe. When I watch it about all of the things that I've read over over the Bible, not just even the Gospels or stuff in the Old Testament, they bring up they even have a Moses is in the beginning of one of the episodes. And you don't know it's him, right? Like what we've mentioned, it's just a scene. It's the two guys and they're doing something and then something happens like, Oh, this is Moses. Okay. Oh, and this is Joshua. Oh, that's kind of cool. So it's not just the gospels that kind of come to life, it's really the Bible like end to end, in a lot of ways. So anyway, go check it out. It's free. Pay it forward, I didn't know that you would get an email that you just gave the show to somebody. So I would recommend I clearly need to do that. But yeah, great series, I highly recommend it. Like I said, this is a bonus episode. I kind of want to try doing a review. Clearly, I'll need to condense future reviews. But yeah, David, what are your What are your final thoughts, man,

David Eckl 1:42:47 

season one through what they're going to do season seven will cover truly the whole New Testament from really the Gospels into Jesus dying. And but I do appreciate the flashbacks and flash forwards, if you will, like talking about Moses and seeing Joshua, early on. Like that, to me is just that extra level where you know, talked about this New Testament, that new coming of this new savior. Okay, we hear that in the Old Testament, it's coming in the New Testament, I love those beginning parts where they kind of flashback like we talked about, yeah, that really kind of helps paint the picture of what's going on what this prophecy is coming true. And right. I mean, it's one of those shows that I watch that you can continue watching, you couldn't get tired of watching. Yeah, you know, and to your point even to like, if you're at least somewhat interested, or you have some kind of, you know, ensure like you're interested in a piece of it, you could watch you know, the first episode, and be like, wow, you know, I'm interested in knowing more, you know, I'm kind of intrigued, I want to follow a little bit more into it. You know, it's, it's something that you can watch on the go, it's something you watch at home with your family, you can, you know, listen to it or watch it anywhere you so please and it's one of the things that you know, even for someone that might not be a believer in their life getting into it, it's something that you know, could really spark this whole movement in their life where they're like, Wow, I've always wanted to know what Jesus had to say or I've always kind of had that in the back of my mind. And that thought for me, it's like, you know, we are I would say quote unquote, maybe a seasoned Christian where we know you know, things that we're talking about, but someone that might not have that familiarity upfront. Hearing that and having them watch this series could give them a very good deep dive into what the Bible is talking about. And that is so uplifting that it could be any walk of life that you're in. You're basically you know, getting into this and seeing what was happening 2000 years ago and putting those pieces together and that is that is so rich that here we are in 2022 and we're able to watch you know this on TV and being able to see the words that You know, we have read for a very long time pop out page and seeing that it's just unbelievable. Yeah, unbelievable and it's you know, it's it's shot really well theatrics are really well done I appreciate just the the whole package that they have put together that you know, it's it's captivating for someone that's very like you know a critic on the video and reviews and those kinds of things it's done in 4k It's it's a beautiful picture it's yeah, it's real. It's not you know, is

Lance Foulis 1:45:27 

it done in 4k? I believe so. I didn't know we don't have I need to still need to get a 4k TV.

David Eckl 1:45:31 

Well, I think if you watch on your maybe not your MacBook but

Lance Foulis 1:45:35 

yeah, no, no, these have like crazy for kids. But it's so that's awesome.

David Eckl 1:45:39 

So well don't even the sound like you hear somebody sound like that's something I want to talk about either but the sound of it and just all of it is just it the package is fantastic. I would highly recommend it to anyone that hasn't seen it that would want to watch it to want to go through it. It's it's something you can't miss if you're a Christian or want to be Christian or just at least interested. Yeah, story of Jesus.

Lance Foulis 1:46:06 

Curious about the story of Jesus. So this will definitely get it for a Yeah, I mean, I my own personal story is pretty complicated. I grew up in the church. And then in my 20s I had some really dark nights of the soul difficult things that I went through and I I kind of was like, I don't want anything to do with that. For years. I would say I'd really don't want anything to do with that. And then slowly i i would say it. I mean that's a story for a completely other day. But I think it was really like Jesus who he is who he embodies really kind of pulled me pull me back to himself. I think so. I really liked this series because it again, it brings that to life. So anyway, we are well past time. So we'll have you back. We will finish and do some more. So thanks for coming on the podcast, sir. And thanks everybody for listening.

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/lancelots-roundtable/donations

Jake 0:00 

You know, we're not going to stop doing what I'm doing. I'm not going to stop crime, like people are always it's just going to happen. People are going to be evil people are going to do evil things. But if someone doesn't do something, then it's just going to be that much worse. Yeah. So for me, I just try to do my best with doing stuff and just be relentless, relentless in my pursuit. And, you know, that's really all I can do. You know, I think that a lot of the times we focus on things that we can't control, I can't control circumstances that happen in the world. But what I can't control is my response to it. So I think that if I mean that's in life in general, sure, you know, a lot of people allow circumstances surrounding them to cripple them. And it doesn't help progress. But if you just keep moving, kind of like that old, you know, just keep put your head down and embrace the suck. Yeah. And just keep moving forward, because it's still forward. Yeah. So I would say that that's the thing that helps me the most.

Lance Foulis 1:15 

Hello, everybody and welcome back to Lance lots roundtable. Today we are going to be talking about law enforcement as kind of a general topic. I've been fascinated by law enforcement ever since I was a kid, my cousin when I was in grade school, graduated, I think, from The Ohio State University with a degree in criminal justice, something like that. And she went into the Columbus police academy became a Columbus police, Columbus department police officer. And She then moved later on down to Cincinnati, which is where she is now. My cousin and I remember when I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do for my life. I was like, Oh, maybe I want to be a police officer. I was really hardcore into martial arts karate, specifically. And I thought it'd be fascinating to protect my community. I got this. This was honestly we talked about this on episode 11. When we talked with police officer Colin Phillips. So I'm kind of reiterating stuff I've talked about before, but in the listen to that episode, yet. Go listen to that episode. Absolutely. Kim's miked, as you can see. Hi, guys. So anyway, I was on AOL Instant Messenger back in the 90s. It would have been super late 90s. Cuz I think I was in high school. And I was talking with my cousin who was a police officer. Again, she was in Cincinnati at the time. And I wanted to talk to her about being a police officer. And so I mentioned to her I think I want to be a police officer. And she immediately typed back, absolutely not. And I was very shocked. And I said, why? And she's like, because you have morals. And I was like, that doesn't make sense. What do you mean? Then she went into telling me about the suicide that she had gone to been called to. And she explained in detail what she witnessed and what she saw at the suicide. And then she explained daughter stay at arrested the father and what the daughter had been through, she explained that and how she got the dad to confess to what he had done. And that was all like something, some things that she had encountered and within like a week. So in my head, I think I had more of a oh, I don't know, Lethal Weapon, maybe cops, the TV show, maybe were in my head, law enforcement work would be getting called to a bank, a bank heist, and doing a high speed chase with bank criminals or something. So I didn't really have like a good concept of like, Oh, I just got called to a suicide. And I was like thinking through, okay, if that's what I had to deal with daily, and I didn't know what I was getting called to really necessarily and then I would just walk I just I felt like, I didn't want to do that. Basically, as soon as I had a conversation with her, I decided what to do, but I've always had a huge respect for people that do that job. And I've known several people that have been doing that job and several podcasts I've listened to over the last couple years. It's obviously a hot topic. And I listened to Joe Rogan podcast Joe Rogan Experience podcast number 1517 with Nancy pop Nancy Ponza. Nancy Ponza is a psychologic psychological psychologist, thank you words her heart, a psychologist that her passion is to help police officers. So basically what she does, and I don't remember where she's at, I think she's in the west coast somewhere. But she was talking to Joe Rogan about what she does and her passion is police officers that have gone in just had a traumatic experience and sitting down with them isn't you could be could be in New York. You can look it up. Okay, cool. So, yeah, or her she she basically gets a call when a police officer runs into a situation and it's a very traumatic situation. So her job is to go evaluate, really how that police officer is doing and working through it. And then she tries to, I don't know, it's this whole program that she's doing but she has such Amazing things to say go listen to that podcast if you haven't. And then there was another Joe Rogan podcast number 1492. Podcast with Jocko Willink, and it was published on June 16 2020, if you remember anything about the year 2020, if you haven't blocked it all out of your mind, things were psycho in the year 2020. And they talked about all the hard stuff that was going on in 2020. And that actually, that podcast actually spurred Nancy Ponzo to reach out to Joe Rogan, because she was really passionate about the topics that they were talking about. He was going to hear a lot of like paper movement and this podcast because I have like all this chicken scratch written down all over the place. So you'll probably hear me ripping papers and moving papers. Let's see. It was New York. She's in New York.

Lance Foulis 5:48 

She is in New York. So Nancy Ponza is in New York. Yes. Now going back to my childhood, I think one of the main reasons that I thought about these kinds of things, I grew up in a in a town close to the Capitol in Ohio. And I remember I had this memory as a really young kid of being woken up by a loud sound, but I didn't know what it was. And the next morning, I found out from my parents that our neighbors had been broken into somebody broke it into their kitchen window was in the dad was up, and he just yelled burglar really loud. And that scared the guy off and he ran away. And I freaked me out is like, however old I was 567 I don't know how old I was. But that like freaked me out. And I was like, oh, people can like break into your house. And that level of I guess, fear of no control as a kid was like, really overwhelming. And so just the idea that, you know, law enforcement? Well, let me let me actually get into a couple of things. Because I started researching, like law. I did Google searches of law enforcement officer and police. And here's just some of the top things and this is from the US Bureau of Labor and Statistics. So and I this actually, this phrase has come up on pretty much every Google search that I came up with police officers protect lives and properties. That's like the first thing that you read when you think about police officers last at least in the couple searches that I did. And the other thing that they do is they enforce the laws that are around obviously, work environment, what type of work environment did they go through police and detective work? I'm literally reading this from the from the website, police and detective work can be physically demanding stressful and dangerous. Police and Sheriff's patrol officers and transit and railroad police have some of the highest rates of injuries and illnesses of all occupations working around the clock shifts is common. Pay is like a median median pay you're not going to be buying yachts. With with the pay that you make. What do they do? Here's some things that it says about what they do again, police officers protect lives and properties. What are their duties responding to emergency and manana non emergency calls patrolling assigned areas, observing people and activities conducting traffic stops, search restricted access databases for vehicle or other records and warrants, obtain and serve warrants for arrest. arrest people suspected of committing crimes, collect and secure evidence from crime scenes, observe the activities of subjects, write detailed reports and fill out forms prepare cases for legal proceedings and testify in court. And it goes into like some more information on what exactly they do. And there's different types. What kind of work environment do they have? Let's see. What does it say here. Again, it just requests us police and detective work can be physically demanding stressful and dangerous. officers must be alert and ready to react throughout their entire shift. Officers regularly work at crime and accident scenes and encounter suffering and the results of violence. And then the little last blurb here it says although a career in law enforcement may be stressful, many officers find it rewarding to help members of their communities. I think these types of topics are really important to talk about. And I think it's really important to get a very specific type of point of view to this type of work. And that's why I am really excited to invite to this podcast, Jake, who is a law enforcement officer. We'll leave it at that. So Jake, welcome to the roundtable.

Jake 9:21 

Thanks for having me, guys.

Lance Foulis 9:23 

Absolutely. So how did you get involved in law enforcement?

Jake 9:27 

Man, I got involved in law enforcement. My cousin worked as a while still works at a suburban agency here in central Ohio. I went on a ride along with them and I was like, Man, this is awesome. Just being able to be out in the community. Riding around I'm not really an office type guys. So when your office is a vehicle that travels I thought man this is awesome. And you know as I started to move towards the police academy, and so started to do internships and then really, you know, move into that field. It just became something that I realized that, you know, I don't want to sound cliche, but it's like, you're kind of born to do it. Yep. So, and I know that seems Oh, yeah, of course, he's gonna say that. But it really was, um, you know, before I was a, a, like supervisor at a call center. And I could have continued that career path. And it just never felt right. So once I got into law enforcement, and then was able to secure a full time job, it was like this. This is

Lance Foulis 10:39 

you just knew. Yes. This is this is me. How old were you for that first, right along?

Jake 10:44 

Man, I was probably 18, probably 17 or 18 years old? Probably, I would say, yeah, probably 17 or 18? And

Lance Foulis 10:53 

what types of things? Were you involved in it? 1718?

Jake 10:55 

As in just one more day, right? Yeah. Really, sports. Sports was really big. I mean, that's really where my life kind of revolved around my twin brother, and I played baseball competitively, since we were five. So we played that. And I think that just being having a really good home Foundation, and being able to have people in my life to create a path and helped me, you know, move down that path really pointed me in the direction of law enforcement.

Lance Foulis 11:31 

Got it. So you're you you've made the decision, I want to get into law enforcement. So tell me just the process of getting in.

Jake 11:38 

So when I first started getting a law enforcement, it was way more competitive than it is currently. Because sometimes when you think about who in their right mind would want to get into law enforcement in today's world, it's a really common question. But when I was getting into law enforcement, it was competitive. So I went through a program at one of the community colleges here in Columbus that allowed you to do secure an associate's degree, but also you were able to go through a police academy through the ohio pod is what it's called. So you did your college courses. And then I think it was a spring and summer quarter that you were in the police academy, and that was your full time gig. Wow. Yeah, so you did it. And then the difference was, is that you had to go find your own job. So if you're going through, like, let's say, you know, Columbus police department or a state highway patrol, you, you are generally going through that police academy, because you've already secured employment. So when you're going through the Columbus police academy, you're you're, you're going to if you graduate, you're going to be a Columbus police officer. That was not the path that I did. I went and secured a certification as a law enforcement officer in Ohio. But then it was, hey, you have this amount of time to secure employment. And if you don't secure employment, then your certification could run out. Oh, well, so yeah, I mean, long, I want to say it was like a year. I don't remember the specific timeframe, I want to say it was maybe a year to a year and a half. And there were certain parameters and stuff like that. But one I knew guys who went through all this, you know, work all this time and, and testing and physical activity to not get a job as because your time ran out. Or maybe they realized that it wasn't for them. So sure, it was different. I mean, when you applied at a job, I remember applying for a job and there was like one or two spots, and there's hundreds of people applying for it. Oh my gosh, and it was and guys who are applying or guys and girls who are applying with experience, and you're a new we'll say Cadet coming out of the academy, just begging someone to yeah, please hire me. Yeah. So I actually started my career at a suburb here in central Ohio as a reserve officer, which basically means you're doing it for volunteer for free. Oh, gosh,

Lance Foulis 14:07 

I the actual job actual

Jake 14:09 

job. Now you're, you're not full time. So you have to have another job, which is what I did, okay. And, and it was, you know, for free. I think I did it as a reserve at this agency for a year. So then I went part time at another agency, and then I secured my first full time job. And I think I was making like $15 an hour. Oh my gosh, so you can imagine it's it's pretty crazy now that you know, police departments now are fighting for good qualified candidates. When I mean, if you weren't doing a reserve job back then or and working your way up, it was hard to secure these really, you know, prominent jobs at larger agencies that are paying significantly more than some of the smaller ones.

Lance Foulis 14:58 

Okay, that makes sense. I mean, My cousin has said the same. She's a sergeant in Cincinnati. And we talked to her over the holidays. And she said, The Recruit pool is really bad right now. Yeah, after last couple years. And Mike, the guy that taught me karate, he's a police officer in North Carolina, near Raleigh. And he said the same thing. So that that sucks. So okay, so you get done. When you're in when you're learning? Are you learning laws that are specific to Ohio? Or is it more general than that?

Jake 15:28 

I mean, you're gonna have your laws that are specific to your state. But you're also learning constitutional law, you know, the amendments and things like that applies, no matter what state you're going to. So you know, it's a mixture, I like to think of it as you have to be equally as intellectual as you are being able to perform physically. And some, it's not an either or thing. You know, you can be a great shooter, but not understand the law, and it puts you in, you know, a predicament, and in a criminal situation sometimes. So yeah, I would say that, you know, the police academy is like drinking through a water hose. And you really don't know what exactly you're, you're kind of absorbing, and you're, you're out. You, oh, this is what they're talking about.

Lance Foulis 16:15 

That makes sense. Like a fire hose. It's just a ton of information. You're not sure what's even sticking? Yes. That sounds wild. So tell me about the physical aspect. What did you go through physically?

Jake 16:26 

Um, I mean, they have, you know, we would do Ron's. So the Academy, the police academy, that I had, I would say was not like a military. I mean, we did have parts of it that were kind of in your face and stuff like that. But it wasn't until I got to my current department where I had to go through another Academy. That that was, I mean, it was from day one to graduation day, getting smoked, if you were weren't performing. I mean, it was. And people say, Well, why did they do that? Well, they do that, because they want to tear you down to get rid of any imperfections that you have. That way that they can build you up in the best way possible. You know, because you have people coming from all walks of life, and to be a police officer, and not some of those people. I mean, they don't even know what it is to be an adult yet. Sure. So you know, to try to put everybody on the same playing field, I mean, that's why you wear a unit, the same uniform, you don't have, you know, they want you to have the same type shoes, the same sock showing the same hat, same uniform, because they want you to be the same to level you out. So then build you up into, I guess the best employee you can possibly be at that point.

Lance Foulis 17:43 

That makes sense. So talk to me about how just your journey getting started, like you're out of the academy, how did you secure a job

Jake 17:51 

application. So I want the department that I did my internship for actually hired me on as I've reserved there, that's reserved, that's the reserve job. And then once I got to the part time gig that I worked, that was another smaller agency. I'd like to forget that part of my butt. And then when I went, I had a friend, friend who worked at the agency that I worked for, and for my first full time job got and she really helped me just, you know, get my name out there and be able to have an opportunity because that's really what it's about is having an opportunity. And someone taking a risk on you and taking a risk on anybody in life. But for this was, you know, it was me. And I, you know, I worked there for maybe a little over a year. And then my best friends still to this day, told me, man this is if we work together, I met him at this department. And he was like, you know, this is really fun. I know you're enjoying it. You know, I'm in my 20s full time officer and he was like, like, 15 $15 an hour is not going to feed your family. Yeah, it's you know, and he really pushed me to apply for the academy or not the academy, but department I'm with now. And we went together with another employee or another officer from that agency. And we were like three guys, and he's like, Man, this is gonna be great. And then I remember going to the academy the first day for the my current department. And he's like, Man, this is gonna be a piece of cake. And I remember looking on the pavement and there's these footprints that are painted on it like in the military. Oh, wow. And I looked at him and I was like, thinking this is not this is not going to be easy. Like, there. This is going to be bad work. This is going to be a tough Academy and yeah, and they were changing things the department like they went they revamped everything which I think was phenomenal. because they really wanted to invest in their employees, like, they want to weed out the bad ones and get the best people that they could. So we, they come out and they tell you, you sit up on this, you know, footprints and basically, the footprints are at an angle as the puzzle position of attention in the military. Okay? So they just kind of explain it. And next thing, you know, these guys with these, you know, their full uniform and they're coming out rush and just smoke in everybody. And you're just like, well, this is. So that was my and I mean, the first week I just kept telling him like, why did you do this to me? Yeah, but now, right? Yeah. Why did he drag me along? But now I'm like, you know, I owe him everything for, you know, doing that. But at the time, I was just like, man, here we go yet.

Lance Foulis 20:52 

So this so what you're describing is like a secondary Academy for your current Yeah, agency that you're with. Okay. So in your timeline, you had had your, what do you call the first job that starts with an Army Reserve reserve job? You did that for a couple years? You're making pennies, you have to work two jobs?

Jake 21:09 

Yeah, um, yeah, I'm working a full time job at that call center that I was telling you about. And then after that, when you have time you go and do ride alongs. Essentially, it's like a glorified ride along. Okay. Like you're a police officer, but you are. It's like, less, less than a part time capacity. I guess.

Lance Foulis 21:30 

So you're not the one in charge. Like you're there to support? Yes, yes.

Jake 21:34 

Yeah. I mean, you're still like when you there's no, except for maybe a rock rock or like a patch on your shirt that says reserve. No one's gonna know. Like, your everybody thinks, hey, this guy's a police officer, what's your you have the same training, but you don't have the same amount of like, rep experience that they said.

Lance Foulis 21:52 

So okay, so you go from that job? What was your first full time gig?

Jake 21:58 

That was in 2012, I think at a small village down in South Columbus got it. Okay,

Lance Foulis 22:09 

what was that? Like?

Jake 22:10 

It was I mean, honestly, it was awesome. I was able to just kind of like experience what type of police officer that I wanted to be. I had great trainers, like still to this day that guys that I worked with, I still talk to it's it's like the first place that I could say was my home, had great supervision. You know, develop great relationships that I still have now. But the only thing was, is just the pay. I mean, it just wasn't that competitive. So is it just the $15 an hour, yes. But I will say that a lot of times those types of things are outside of the control of the department because they want to retain their employees and stuff. It's just there's, you know, you have budgets and all this other stuff that they have to go through. So, but they provided a lot of good equipment, you know, decent training and stuff like that. But, you know, they were the first department that gave me a chance as a young police officer. And so I'll never forget that, you know, I'm a real believer, and it's not everybody loves to see where you are at currently, but they never see or really pay attention to the path that you got there. So I really want to always remember who I was before I had all, you know, the experience that I have and been blessed in the way that I have. So you know, I would do anything for those guys. And I I'm sure they know that.

Lance Foulis 23:40 

Yeah. So I mean, it's, it's amazing to think about you you're putting your own time and investment into into becoming a police officer, nothing secured. Once you're done, then you have to go find a job. I mean, that's, I guess, pretty typical of a college student or whatever. Yeah, but what you're describing is like, the pool is a lot bigger for people to pick from. So it's very competitive. Yeah, it was very competitive at the time. So then when you get your full time gig, they're taking a shot at you, they're taking a risk at you, from your perspective. Now looking back? How like, what's the what's the risk in their minds when they don't know you? Like, what's the, I guess, level of risk in their minds?

Jake 24:21 

I mean, you're, you know, when you're, let's say, outfitting a police officer, you're spending 1000s of dollars on, you know, equipment training, getting them ready to be an awful time officer in your department. And you only have that interview process, which, you know, the interview process for law enforcement can take up to a year depending depending on what's going on. Because really what they have is it's kind of like safeguards, you know, you have your initial testing phase which says, Are you do you have the at least limited knowledge to do this job then you'll have The physical test, then you'll have usually like a panel interview with people to where they can, you know, throw shot questions at you. And then you have your, like, either polygraph or CVSA, which is the lie detector test. And then you'll have your psych. So when you get to psych, it's pretty much like, they just need to make sure that you're not, you're just like, one screw loose. Yeah. But throughout that process, which I would say, is probably more strenuous and strenuous than most employment, you still have people that get through. So they have to say, is this person going to, I mean, if, if you do something that you're not supposed to, that's gonna bring a liability, you know, it's gonna bring, you know, civil suits and stuff with the department with, you know, supervision and stuff like that. So I mean, there's a lot of risk. The just the job and in itself, of being a law enforcement officer has so much risk that people think oh, man, you know, yeah, you can lose your life. But in reality, sometimes losing your life isn't really the worst, most worrisome thing. It's having your house taken away. You having all of your money taken away, having your family go through complete, you know, ridicule watching the person that they love just be blasted on news. Yeah. I mean, sometimes death seems like the easiest way. Yeah, I mean, seriously. So and it's, it's just one of those things that there's a lot of risk for those departments to take on you. Yeah. So when, when someone took a risk on me, I still to this day, I mean, I've, you know, been with my agency almost for 10 years. Wow, the current one, and I still remember, when I got the call, Hey, you're gonna get full time employment? Yeah, I remember what that felt like. And I'll never forget that.

Lance Foulis 27:00 

Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah. So talk to me about like, once you're starting full time, what's your day to day look? Like? What's it feel like?

Jake 27:07 

Um, so my, so the job that I currently have, I did not start on the road like, patrol, right? So the agency that I work with, they you start in the jail, and you work as a corrections officer. Wow. Okay. So I did that, which, I mean, it is. It is a job that no one wants to do. But it takes some strong people to do it. Because it's kind of think like this, like, if you're working at a hospital, right? You have to take care of the sick people constantly. There's no leaving it. Yeah. But if you're a paramedic, you go to the scene, you pick them up, you drop them off, and they're not really your problem. And so, you know, you see them again, when you work at a jail, they get dropped off to you. So and in that line of work, there's you have people that are career criminals, and people that just made a bad decision that got caught. And there's so it's like a spectrum of people, right. And I've met some people in the jail being inmates that were great people that made really bad decisions, right. And I've also had friends that I've seen from where I grew up, being in jail, and you're in it's just a weird environment. But the job teaches you so much about being a person and being how to, you know, being able to talk to people, because sometimes, you get so used to the repetition, and there's the revolving door of things, that it's easy to be able to pass it and just say, I'm not going to deal with it, but there you have to deal with it. So you have to be able to talk to people. Yeah, and that, you know, working there for the short time that I did. allowed me to just continue to develop those skills and just recognize people for people.

Lance Foulis 28:59 

Yeah. Okay, that's wild. What? Is that a 40 hour a week deal?

Jake 29:06 

or more? Yeah, I mean, your standard I guess requirements is 40 hours a week, but I mean, there's overtime and stuff like that, that you would pick up. So I mean, you would be doing that all day every day. That is your current that is your permanent assignment. When you first start out

Lance Foulis 29:24 

got it. Okay. Can you talk to me a little bit about like the mental aspect of it like how you get through how you got through and get through the mental aspect because you see stuff I don't see the average human sees you don't Yeah, you see stuff that we don't see

Jake 29:39 

right? I think that the working in the jail you see just bizarre things more Sure. Just things that you're just like, I don't even understand what I just saw. And then it becomes normal to your and you're just like, okay, but, as in LAW enforce. Smit, you see things that I don't even know how to describe it. It's kind of like you become numb to things. Like your mind just is conditioned as some type of protective measure to kind of sidestep things and say, so you can go on with your tasks that this is not ish real, right? I mean, I remember the first time I saw someone's body, I was like, Oh, my gosh, that's a dead body. Yeah. And then after the hundreds of I've seen, you're just like, there's another dead body. Yeah, the hardest thing isn't dealing with the body. It's dealing with the families that want to know what happened. They they call you. You know, when after I got out of the corrections, and went to my current assignment, there was a job that I started an overdose task force with the chief and Sergeant that I work with. And we would respond to pretty much every fatal overdose and kill at least Central Ohio in our jurisdictional area. And you can imagine through, say, 2000, and I think it was like 16 through 19. So drug overdoses were huge in central Ohio. So I mean, there were times I remember being called in one night period, and my partner and I admire Sergeant went out to three different overdoses and one night cheese. So and it's it's never the bodies that, you know, would bother you. It's, it's the families that you want to you want to get, you know, give them some type of closure. And sometimes you can't, sometimes the evidence, isn't there. Sometimes the circumstances don't allow it. Yeah. But, you know, that's still a mom, that's still a dad still, brother, it's still a sister that they want some type of answer. And they and I think as humans, we want someone to be held responsible for things, even though that doesn't eliminate our sense of responsibility for what had happened, I guess. But with the fit with the families, they just, they want an answer. Yeah. And sometimes you can't give them and that's what is the hardest, I would say, Are

Lance Foulis 32:21 

you describing being at a crime scene? It's just happened, and then the families show up there?

Jake 32:27 

Yeah, that is, so I had my partner, who is like, Well, my partner when I was doing the overdoses was he had retired and then basically came back. I mean, this man had done at all, he was a SWAT, he did a SWAT operator, he was a patrol officer, he was a homicide detective, and then eventually were cold case homicides. So he really taught me a lot about, you know, how to talk to people how to deliver the bad news. And it's not necessarily the family right away, when you're, I mean, everybody's going to be upset, like, that's something in your mind that's conditioned, like they are going to be upset, they're going to upset doesn't mean just crying, it can mean really, like physically angry. It can, you know, be family fights going out because of this. A lot of different emotions going on, but it's the, you know, one month, hey, do you have anything? You know, we're trying to months, do you have anything, and you're trying I mean, and also you have, you know, 10 other cases that going on, that you're trying to show the same attention to? So it becomes just a lot. And that's really the thing that I would say is the hardest that I don't even know if people really talk about because it's, it's like you as a police officer, no one's to talk about the, you know, the stuff that kind of gets to you. Because you want it that sense of strength or whatever. But I mean, for me, I really feel like your strengths are admitting your, your weaknesses, and then addressing them, and then explaining that to people because I can't be the only person that feels like that. Yeah, it's only a weakness if you allow it to stop you from doing your job. Yeah. So that's kind of the, I guess, the hardest thing that I've dealt with, thus far, and then also in a scene, you know, kids hurt and stuff like that. But that's like, the stuff that people will talk about, not the, like, small things that just continuously build up over time.

Lance Foulis 34:39 

So oh, well, yeah, that makes sense. So the small the small things are like building up over time that maybe you just don't want to give attention to in your mind, and definitely don't really want to talk about it. And that just builds over time. Right? That sounds that sounds really rough. Yeah. Can you tell me about how, how, how do you stay optimistic? How do you not get jaded

Jake 35:00 

Ah, I mean, I think for me, I just try to, you know, we're not doing what I'm doing, I'm not going to stop crime, like people are always it's just going to happen, people are going to be evil people are going to do evil things. But if someone doesn't do something, then it's just going to be that much worse. Yeah. So for me, I just try to do my best with doing stuff and just be relentless, relentless in my pursuit. And, you know, that's really all I can do. You know, I think that a lot of the times we focus on things that we can't control, I can't control circumstances that happened in the world. But what I can't control is my response to it. So I think that if I mean, that's in life in general, sure, you know, a lot of people allow circumstances surrounding them to cripple them. And it doesn't help progress. But if you just keep moving kind of like that old, you know, just keep put your head down and embrace the suck. Yeah. And just keep moving forward. Because it's still forward. Yeah. So I would say that that's the thing that helps me the most. Yeah,

Lance Foulis 36:04 

that makes that makes complete sense. Could you talk about ongoing training? Like, what what is the best things that you've seen since you like, during your whole career in terms of like, what's helped you ongoing training and such,

Jake 36:21 

like training for mental training? I mean, yeah,

Lance Foulis 36:25 

like, go through all the stuff for you to continue just to escalate and get better at what you do?

Jake 36:29 

I mean, I think that you're like trying to find your red line, you know. So I do, obviously, you know, we've talked about jujitsu, and I've done some type of, we'll say, combat training, since I was 18, from being an amateur MMA fighter to, you know, kind of letting that slow down, and then getting into jujitsu more. You know, hardcore. The thing that I realized recently is because I got around a group of guys that were really proficient in firearms, like, I'm not just saying, sitting in a lane and shooting, I'm not talking about marksmanship, I'm talking about, you know, getting a bunch of problems during shooting, malfunctions, running and moving, being tired doing it for long durations of time, what, what you, what I found was, oh, man, I'm getting with all these things, after you know, seven, eight minute run, I am getting maxed out, like my abilities are starting to lessen more and more. And I think that what, what we try not to do as human beings is we don't want to be, we don't want to feel that we are inefficient, and something. So what we do is we don't adjust our training to maximize our efficiency, we decrease it so we don't feel inefficient. And that's one thing that I've seen throughout my entire career is that, you know, I never want to get in a serious situation where it's so dangerous that I thought, in the middle of this, I should have trained more, because now it's my life on the line. Yep. And that is something that it's a real thing. I mean, you have depending on what area you're in, you could have your response be five minutes away, and five minutes, and the life or death situation is pretty much an eternity. So, you know, I once I realized that deficiency, as far as we'll say, I don't want to say gunfighting. Because that that's a weird term, but we'll just say, realistic application of using a fire. Sure. So once I got into that, I was like, Man, I need to get better. Yeah, so I started trying to go so I would go to, you know, shooting around a vehicle, like, have you shot glass to see how it's gonna affect your bullet trajectory? Have you have you been able to see how you're going to move around a vehicle? What's the strongest points of a vehicle to protect you? So I know you know, going to those types of classes and being around people that are better than me at something so I can hopefully elevate to their level of proficiency on things. And that is, I think, where I've been able to increase training and and that's like the, the physical part of law enforcement that everybody kind of thinks about everybody Oh, man that gunfight into the crazy stuff that you see on Cops. But the boring part is like knowing your job legally, and reading and understanding, you know, search and seizure and Fourth Amendment and what you have the legal ability to do, because if you can understand the conceptual basis of what you're trying to do from a legally like a legal standpoint, then it allows you to do your job without infringing on people's rights. Yeah, you know, because I think that most people are not doing it on purpose. You know, I think it is a generally an accident if, you know, they ask a question that maybe maybe they shouldn't or or what have you that whatever situation it is, but I think that

Lance Foulis 40:13 

you mean the law enforcement? Yeah, like asking a question. Yeah. Yeah,

Jake 40:17 

you know, but me as a, let's just take the badge off, I want someone who's enforcing the law to have the knowledge to to allow me to know what's going on. Like, I don't want someone to just barge into my house and take, you know, violate my fourth amendment rights. You know, so sometimes you have to take off the hat of being a police officer to realize the people that you're working for, because we work for the community. It's amazing. We're, we're public servants. Yes. So we serve the public. Yeah, yeah.

Lance Foulis 40:50 

I liked what you when you were talking about law. I mean, let's make sure that I understand the definition of, you know, you're talking about getting after that red line. When you when you talk about getting after the red line? In my mind, that's your ceiling? Physically? Yes. So as fast and hard as far as you can run, naturally over time, as you get older. That ceiling wants to wants to draw.

Jake 41:17 

I wish it was up higher sometimes.

Lance Foulis 41:20 

So you're constantly kind of trying to push keep that envelope tight? Yes. And keep it as expanded as you can. Yeah. Now when you're doing this, okay, so when you're pursuing, you know, increasing your ability with firearms, increasing your ability with hand to hand when you're in trial, trying to increase your ability physically, when you're trying to increase your ability with your legal understanding. All of that is things that you're doing outside of your actual job, I imagine. Yes. Yeah.

Jake 41:48 

Yes. Like, I mean, you are departments and departments are going to send you to those things. Sure. But at some point, you have to take your own personal responsibility for who you are. Like, I think of myself as a business. Right? Yeah. If I want my business to be proficient, I'm going to have to put in time that's not on the clock. Yep. You know what I mean? And that's just the way I approach things. I'm sure if someone else is a police officer and listens to it, they're all this, you know, yeah. It must be nice to be young. Well, it is. It's also nice to be alive. Yeah. So I, you know, I want my, my business or who I am as a individual, to reflect things in the most positive manner possible. And, unfortunately, sometimes that takes away from, you know, family time sometimes, like, you got boxes, and sometimes you have to figure out what coin you're gonna put your box and to fill it up, and it's going to take from another one. But I think that when you do that, you're really inadvertently filling up your family because the better you are at your job, hopefully the return will be the same at some point. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely.

Lance Foulis 43:00 

And I mean, you know, I work in corporate America, it's kind of similar if I want to be better at my job. It my ability to do my job well, direct is directly affected by what level of responsibility I want to take to improve my skills, whereas your My yours might be figuring out firearms on a more proficient level. Mine might be what what can I do with Excel? Right, but it's not something I'm going to learn unless I take the time outside of my job to learn it. Right. Yeah, so that okay, that all makes sense to me. So you just mentioned family, you have a family? Yes. Yes. So if I was to ask your family member, what's it like being married to a law enforcement agency? How would you say,

Jake 43:49 

Man, how would I How would she respond? Yeah, man. I'm gonna go ahead and spin this positively because she's not here to answer. Sorry, babe. Oh, actually, I would say that my wife is and most law enforcement wives don't get the credit that they deserve. They deal with a lot of stuff. Yeah, they deal with late nights, working holidays, missing family events. And that's just the physical things they don't you know, for me, if I'm having a hard day, my wife or and I come home, my wife will generally know like, hey, I need to give this man a second to kind of just relax because sometimes my day it'll start at eight. I like the other day I started my day, I think 8am And I think I was almost home at midnight. Yeah. So you know, it's just for me specifically with my assignment. It's so irregular. That the irregular, irregular? No. I can't talk today. It not being regular. Yeah. Yeah. That is regular for our family. You You know what I mean? And, and my wife has, you know, we've been through some things at work that I'm sure scare the absolute crap out of her. And I know have scared her a lot, but she has not, you know, limited. What I want for my career. Yeah. And unfortunately for her, I always, it's like, oh, man, let's do you know, what's next thing? You know, let's do swan. She's like, Cimini? Can't you just go like, do something kind of calm? No. So, you know, doing what I'm doing now? You know, I've been, I've been doing spy Special Investigations for eight years, almost, including undercover. That that's probably not something a wife wants to think about, you know, not alone. Just going out on patrol and dealing with calls and stuff like that. And, you know, having dangerous situations pop up, could depending on where you're patrolling daily, but you know, when you say, hey, you know, I want to go undercover and, and buy drugs. And she's like, What? Why? Yeah, I think it would be a great opportunity. And reluctantly, she says, okay, and then eight years later, doing the same stuff. So

Lance Foulis 46:15 

So you're a great opportunity for your career is doing an ODE going undercover?

Jake 46:21 

Yeah, my grit my most. Let me let me preface this. God has blessed my life so much. It's sometimes I look, and I'm like, I don't even know why for me. Sure. You know, when I came to the agency I'm with, I didn't have to spend a lot of time doing the corrections, I was able to have an amazing opportunity to go to the unit I'm currently at, and you start doing undercover buys, you know, you start working in an undercover capacity. And my wife was less than thrilled on some of my attire choices and the things that I would wear, but you, you kind of tried to be kinda let's, I guess I want to preface as an undercover when you're when you're watching on TV, and it's like, they're living with these people for months. That's not what I was doing.

Lance Foulis 47:17 

That's not what you know, okay. No, that's

Jake 47:19 

not what I was doing. So you, you know, essentially, you're going out and a undercover capacity trying to what, you know, investigate crimes, essentially, you know, that may mean you have to go buy drugs from a drug dealer to further your investigation. But, you know, I did that. My wife, I remember us going to like some tasting for our wedding or some meeting for a wedding and having the end, I didn't have time to change my clothes. I literally went home, grabbed my car, went back to this place. And she looked at me like, no, absolutely, I made a long t shirt. And she just looked at me like, What are you doing? And I was like, Yeah, this, this is pretty ridiculous. And so you just kind of lose your lose. This is not normal. But everyday, you're wearing this stuff, you're doing these things. You're just like, this, this is normal for me. But yeah, that would, I guess, having the opportunity working with the eight, you know, the unit that I'm working at now. Now. I've been able to do things in my career, and have opportunities that I mean, there's literally movies made about stuff that you get to do on a daily basis, and to be around the people that talented people that have invested in me too. And that have, you know, taken those chances all man, it's, it's, it's like you don't have enough money in the world to pay them back for it. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's just one of those types of things.

Lance Foulis 48:52 

It's amazing when you get put in a situation where there's really good people that you get to be around and when they are willing to like invest in you. And you, you, you know, the positive effect that they're having on you and how they're helping you reach your goals. There's because you can't control that you can't control it, usually who's around you. But when you get put in an environment where you're getting really good input from the people around you, that's a fantastic place to be in. Yes. Let's go a little bit more in depth into that journey of being undercover. How did you go from what you were doing before? I mean, you're getting input from people, you're getting instruction and training and all that. So like, how did that transition into that career? Go?

Jake 49:36 

Oh, man, I remember. So like the first year was just a blur. Sure. I mean, the best time in my life, like career wise, it was just, you're kind of like floating over yourself. Like this is what I'm doing and mind you. When I first started, I was not very good, because you spend your whole life not trying to be a criminal and you're pretending to be a crime. But also it's like, well, how do you

Lance Foulis 50:01 

don't want to act like you're pretending? Yeah, exactly. How

Jake 50:05 

do you how do you pretend not to pretend to be a criminal? So I had, you know, the guy who trained me was, I mean, still this day, I would say it was one of the best investigators I've ever talk to you. I mean, him. And I still talk and bounce things off each other. And he really, like took me under his wing. And he would just gave me a lot of advice, and even not even just advice, but like, Hey, man, you're not doing well at this. Do better at this. Yeah. And I think a lot of the times, no one wants to hear that. But that's really, for me, what allows me to address the deficiencies I had. You know, I'll still remember. I still remember the first drug deal I ever did. I, I literally tried to carry the drugs out like a Subway sandwich. Because in my mind, I could not process what it was going on. I mean, looking back at it now, like, what were you doing? Yeah. But it was just kind of like, this is this is happening, like, this is really what we're doing. And I remember the guy was training with was with me, and he's like, Hey, like, put it somewhere. And I was like, Where do I put it? I just remember taking my hat off and putting it under my hat. And he probably looked at me and like, we still laugh about this, like, and I love when people tell all the greatest stories about them. But I am like, let's tell the terrible stories, because those are the best. Yes. And that's when that happened. I was like, I still tell him like, why did you pass me? But you know, over time, you become better at it. And I'm not you know, they're being undercover. I always say undercover is like, a tool belt on your tool on your or tool on your tool belt? Yeah. And it's just one thing that you can pull from to be a better detective, you know, so for me, I would say, the under covers skill sets, there are guys out there who can do it, like, just boomed. I mean, they're snap, it just comes natural. And they're, they're able to do that. For me. It took work, you know, and I'm still not the best. I mean, I would say on average I get by, but there are guys out there that I'm just like, Man that like they are phenomenal at doing it. I love the investigation portion of it. You know what I mean? really diving in and developing a case?

Lance Foulis 52:30 

Can you tell me about that, like what that means? It just means

Jake 52:33 

using, you know, without getting too into it using things like techniques and methods to take it from point A to point Z, okay. You know, add it, you can do, you know, things like surveillance, intelligence gathering, figuring out who they are, what they're doing, like, I want to do that. That's what I like to do. And undercover when I can, I'll introduce it, you know, I mean, so yeah. But undercover comes with, you know, risk. It, I've been in situations, not more personally and with teammates that it's I mean, life and death situations. And that's where the fun Come becomes reality. And you're just like, you know, this, this is real. And I think that, you know, collectively the, it's kind of like I was saying, you know, you want to be physically a bit able but also intellectually able. And that's the thing with undercovers, like you want to be able to have that like chameleon esque type of your skill set. But it's not the most important thing. You know what I mean? It's not like, I'm just going to give 100% and have this undercover thing and not worry about actually helping how to put together a case. Yeah, so yeah, that's

Lance Foulis 53:56 

like a lot of different hats. Yeah, that you get used to wear? Yes,

Jake 53:59 

yes. It's, you know, from the unit that I'm with, you could be doing anything. I mean, you could be doing a drug case one day, and then working, assisting with a death case the next day, you know, that's what I think is so interesting about the people that I work with, and the supervisors that I work for is that, you know, they have, you have to have your head on a swivel at all times. You know, and sometimes I think, when you do it for so long, you forget how dynamic things are. And and when you speak about it out loud, you're just like, oh, man, it's kind of a lot.

Lance Foulis 54:43 

So like, yeah, it is a lot. So I mean, that brings me to this question. And I'm really curious just how you answer it because I just I want I'm just curious mentally, what this is like, Do you ever do you ever run into a situation or did you ever run into a situation where you're just like your motive addition to keep doing it was gone or struggling or where you're just like I should do I want to keep doing this did that has that ever happened?

Jake 55:07 

I mean, yeah, for sure. It's thought like, man, is this not not from like a law enforcement perspective, but from just like being tired perspective? Yeah, for sure. You know, I worked cases where I'm just like, I just wish this would end because I'm tired of it. I'm tired of, you know, just absorbing your life. I mean, think about thinking about something constantly. You know, you as a criminal, your thing your that's your lifestyle. So if you're doing it 24/7 But me I have eight hours in the day or, you know, more so yeah, you're but you're constantly thinking about strategizing, trying to figure out what's going on. But for me, I think that as far as like, giving up on what I'm doing, I've always thought about, like, you know, let's maybe go try us, you know, on the SWAT team or something like that our canine like that. Absolutely. is interesting to me, but I don't think I've ever thought like, let's just, let's just give up. If anything, if something gets harder, I feel like I want to pursue it more, because I don't want that to be the thing. Like, that got away. Yeah. Makes total sense. Yeah. So I feel like that it just kind of makes me It drives me crazy. But it just I want to do it more and more.

Lance Foulis 56:26 

Yeah. So like, you run into a challenge. You're like, Okay, well, I'm gonna conquer this sucker. Yes.

Jake 56:30 

And when you do conquer, you know, I've had cases where it's like, Man, I'm chasing, trying to get all this stuff for, you know, a year or two. And then you finally get it. And it's just like, Man, that was awesome. Yeah. Moving to the next. Right. All right. Now on to the next. Yes.

Lance Foulis 56:48 

So how many like, like, give me like a peek example, when you have like, most amount of cases you've ever had that are all you're just working like X number of cases. They're all in different states, like, in different parts of their areas.

Jake 57:02 

Man, I think when I was working overdoses was the most, because we are very, we were a unit of three guys, it was to detect, well, two detectives, and then they added another one, and then it was a sergeant. And when we first started, we were not only working our own cases, our jurisdiction, but we're also helping out other agencies. Because before we started that task force, overdose investigations were not worked like a crime scene, it was it was deemed an accidental death. So nobody was really held responsible. It was just like, hey, this person took the drugs and they overdosed. And, you know, it's an unfortunate situation. So what was really awesome to be a part of was changing law enforcement from that standpoint of working investor or an overdose and trying to find out who the dealer was provided to them, and then actually go after that dealer criminally. So when we first started providing or, you know, going to these agencies and say, Hey, can we work your overdose deaths? They were like, yeah, why? And we would tell them and, and it was foreign to them, you know, and not only were we working the deaths, but if someone non fatally overdosed, and was able to be revived by a, you know, mad X or whatever, well, we would go out to them knock on their door and say, hey, you know, we understand you had a medical emergency, we're here to offer some type of assistance, we had a like social worker, someone who could provide them with that to where we could, as law enforcement, you know, deal with the law enforcement side, but from a medical standpoint, if they didn't feel comfortable talking to law enforcement about it, because traditionally, the police are there when things someone needs to be held accountable for something or when something bad is happening. So

Lance Foulis 58:53 

so they wouldn't necessarily want to talk to a law enforcement officer because they don't want to end up in trouble. Yes. So

Jake 58:57 

that was kind of the first hurdle but we were able to if they non fatally overdosed, we would figure out who sold them the drugs and then still go after them, but for a different crime. And, you know, I mean, it was a successful Taskforce, it's still going on. There were I mean, it was nationally recognized. Wow. And we and it's because of people at the department on with, they have very good ability to have vision to move and go outside of the normal things for law enforcement. You know, I, some people will stay in the like, Guys, when you know, first of all, law enforcement is not the same. Well, no, it's because law enforcement includes people that change constantly and we're constantly evolving as a, you know, human Yeah. So what you want, yeah, you want and that was one thing to be a part of, and see that. I mean, it was a lot of work. It was a lot of sleepless nights and stuff like that, but Um, to say that you had the opportunity to help change a vision and a way of processing things for law enforcement, that's not usually something that you can say. Yeah. So I was, it was just cool to have a small piece in that.

Lance Foulis 1:00:15 

So. So make sure I have this right. And you just correct me where I need to be corrected. You're talking about basically, like, almost like, to putting this in quotes, like a new frontier type of a thing, where traditionally, maybe this type of thing would be held where really who you're going after is the people that are buying and using.

Jake 1:00:34 

We're gonna Yeah, so when we were when we were working in these cases, we weren't looking at the person who was using the drugs as a criminal, necessarily, yes, they're doing a criminal act by absorbing drugs that are illegal, I get it. But what we're trying to do is go after the people that are providing because if you don't have the provider, then how you gonna get it? Yeah. So that's really what we, you know, we partnered with a prosecutors in the, you know, the area that we work and really developed a way to try to combat it. I mean, it was an epidemic. Yes. You know what I mean? Yes, you had people on the street overdosing. You know, you'd walk on certain parts of the street and see needles everywhere. You these kids are playing here. And you know, we've had it where people have died when their kids are in the bet. And you know, in the other rooms, yeah. So there has to be something. You know, when people say how to legalize drugs, that's not going to do anything, legalizing a drug is just going to say, hey, just let the floodgates open. You right, you know what I mean? And, and you have to be creative sometimes to to try to help a community problem.

Lance Foulis 1:01:48 

Yeah. You know, so as the revolutionary thing that you guys did was then going after the people that were selling the drugs?

Jake 1:01:55 

And yes, for not because we don't go after people that are selling drugs. But we're, you're going after the people that sold the drugs that caused the overdose and holding them response. So in Ohio, they have involuntary manslaughter. Yeah, right. Okay. So that's what the one of the crimes that you would try to charge or prove for the dealer, and if they non fatally overdose, meaning they were didn't die, but they there was something that they used to save their life and reverse the effects like Narcan, then you would go after them for corrupting another with drugs, which that charge in and of itself, how to to eight years, mandatory prison time? God. So that's what they were looking at. So yeah, it was, it was just a different, you know, Outlook on it, for sure.

Lance Foulis 1:02:50 

Yeah. I mean, that's, I mean, that's really, that's really great. I mean, I mean, it's all over the news. And people talk about all like a lot, which is the problem with drugs that are happening in this country. And I've heard that it's particularly bad here. So I just love that aspect of looking at something in a new way and figuring out a better way, yes, to address a situation in a problem. So that's really awesome. So we're getting to about an hour here. So we're gonna start thinking about kind of semi wrapping it up. So I think the last couple of things I just would like to hear from you is people that are interested in law enforcement, people will let's let's address this into let's address this into laters. People that are involved in law enforcement, your average citizen, what things would you want to say to them to educate them on law enforcement?

Jake 1:03:49 

I would say, one, get all the facts. Respond to all the facts and and understand like, for whatever incident is just don't knee jerk react to things, try to obtain the facts as best as possible when they're provided. And then I would also say that, you know, there are bad police officers in this world for sure. Just like there's bad doctors and bad priests and stuff like that. So understand that when there's a bad police officer, good police officers do not want them around. Yeah, it's not the the brotherhood that we talk about. It has conditions. You have to want to uphold the Brotherhood want to uphold the badge and everything that it represents? Yeah. Because the minute you don't, you're tainting that for everybody else who's trying to do it correctly. Yeah. So I would say, you know, the thin blue line and all that stuff that people talk about, it's not let's hide things because I've seen guys get exposed because of raw, you know, wrongdoing and they absolutely should be so Yeah, you know, the brotherhood that we talk about is a sense of, you know, camaraderie that we have, because of the things that we go through because you can't understand what, you know, law enforcement officers go through unless you are one. Yes, it is what it is. Yep. So and there was one other thing that I'm trying to think. Facts? Yeah, I would, I would just say, have some grace to, I mean, everybody in this world there, you know, there's times that you walk out of the door. And you there are officers that never step back in, right. There are situations that happen, that, you know, It's life and death on the line, and you have seconds to make decisions. And yes, you can make the wrong decision. But a majority of the time, things can be prevented for if people listen, the street is not a place to argue your legal position. That's where the court is. Yep. You know, for me, and my kids, when my kid gets old enough, I will tell them, if a police officer tells you something, you need to listen. Because when people aren't listening, that throws red flags, because usually when people aren't listening, it's for a wrong reason. You know, distraction, or whatever you you know, they had the guy just shooting on the freeway, you know, what yesterday, you never know when a situation that comes across where it could mean your life, and you don't have the ability to say no, as a law enforcement officer, like it's your duty to protect. So when everybody else is running the other way, you have to run towards it. So I think that just understanding it from just a human standpoint, you don't say like, I'm not condoning people doing wrong things. But I am asking for people to understand that we're human, and the situations that we deal with on a daily basis. Yeah. I wouldn't wish that on. Anybody that I care about.

Lance Foulis 1:07:13 

Yeah, that's good. That's good. Last thing I would like for you to address is I'm 18 1917 years old. And I'm thinking I think I want to do law enforcement. What advice would you have for that individual?

Jake 1:07:29 

Go on ride alongs. Go on ride alongs in different areas of your community, don't just go in the you know, worse areas, don't just get a feel of what's going on, get a bunch of opinions. You're always going to have that while law enforcement has changed, or Yeah, it'll always change. It'll, it'll change when I'm, you know, ready to retire, and so on and so forth. But understand, get a perspective and really think like, this isn't a job where you just go apply, and you don't live your life in a different way. When you become a police officer, no matter if you're on duty or not, you you have to, you have to act in a different way. If someone finds out, you're a police officer, and you're acting crazy and going, you know, you're with your friends and stuff like that, especially if you're 1920 21, your life is not going to be the same as a normal 21 year old. Yeah, it can't be because your department if something happens, they're going to you represent them. Yep. You're representing them. And, yes, and other businesses, you will represent your business, but their people think if you're a police officer, you should have a higher standard of living. And you have to keep that. Yeah. So I think that understanding that is hard to really grass for some people, and that's why it's hard. That's the risk. You know, we were talking about earlier, the risk of can I hire this kid? Yeah, at 21 years old. Is he mentally ready for it? Yeah. And, you know, we I got, I got into a situation where I was at a I had just been at a party, I would think I was in my 20s. And I was just there. I didn't even know the person's house I was in I was with a friend and my little brother was with me. And long story short, he had a girlfriend, who was, let's say, knot is strong up there. And she called in the police department said I was having a party providing them with alcohol. It wasn't even my party. But because she knew what that would look like, you know, I had to get called in and they asked questions and really I just I didn't understand what was going on. Because I'm like, this isn't even my house. Yeah. And so for me at a really early time in my career, I realized pee for watching, yeah, constantly. Yeah. And that was a great lesson for me. Not because I did anything but because I saw what people can do. Yes. And perception unfortunately is reality even if it's not Yeah, so

Lance Foulis 1:10:14 

yeah that's that's sad but true but that's a good word. I mean the whole thing about living with the understanding that you have a higher standard yes that you need to live by is very important, especially at that age because boy it's really easy to make dumb mistakes at that age. Yes. And then I wanted to like mention, one podcasts that I think if you if you like this type of content, which I love, a really good podcast to go listen to. I've listened to I think just over half of it. Vigilance elite YouTube channel, Sean Ryan Show Sean Ryan is an ex Special Forces guy has amazing people on episode 13. He had NYPD police commissioner Bernie Kerik on. And they talked about his time going through the police in New York City when it was real bad in the 70s and 80s. And he talked about his undercover stint awesome. And it's wild and he lost like a guy that was on his unit. He went into go do a thing. They figured something out and he didn't be he died. Geez. And he talked about this. This guy. This police commissioner talked about his time undercover. And on the street in New York City. It was the best. He had the most fun. Yeah, for sure fun of his career,

Jake 1:11:33 

the most fun, but for just looking back, I'm like, man, what the heck? Why was I having fun? Yeah. Why is this fun? Like when you explain to people like that doesn't sound funny. Like yeah, but it is. So

Lance Foulis 1:11:47 

that's awesome. Jake, thanks for coming on. Thanks

Jake 1:11:49 

for having me.

Lance Foulis 1:11:50 

I would love it if you would come back. Yeah, absolutely. A lot more things I want to talk with you about. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah. Thanks for coming on. And everybody. Thanks for listening and we'll catch you next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/lancelots-roundtable/donations

Welcome to Lancelot's Roundtable - Episode 23

Career Re-evaluation with Shelby Smith

Shelby 00:00

I learned about myself that like with education that... you just realized you have no more coffee

correct was tea like looked into my mug and like yep, it's pure design on its face

Lance Foulis 00:14

true Hello everybody and welcome back to Lancelot's Roundtabe. It is getting very spring like

outside we are early March and we're getting our first little taste of spring, which probably

means that we're going to get a least one more bout of snow before we get into permanent

spring time. So I hope everyone's having a good day. Hope everybody's enjoying the sunshine,

wherever you are, if it's sun shining, when you listen to this, but thanks so much for listening.

I'm happy to welcome to the podcast, a really good friend of mine, Shelby Smith. Shelby,

welcome to the roundtable. Hi, thanks so much for having me. Absolutely, really thrilled that

you could come on. So why don't you tell the people a little bit about yourself? Yeah, so I'm 33

mom of one currently.

Shelby 01:13

Born and raised, Columbus went to o u in Athens and I have a Bachelors of Science in

communication studies, through right out of college went into HR and then marketing where I

met you. That's where are we met? That's where we met a couple years ago. Yeah, well, more

than a couple now. We'll go with a couple. And then when that really just wasn't the greatest

fit, I left the corporate sector and decided that I was better fit for the education side. So I have

been teaching for five years. It's my fifth year. So I'm about to end my fifth year and wild God

years already. It's crazy. And I have my masters now in education, curriculum and instruction

from Ashland University. I didn't know you went to Ashlyn. I mean, it was all online. But yeah,

that's your mom. Right? Hey, everybody, Kim's here.

S

S

Kim Foulis 02:09

Hi.

Lance Foulis 02:11

She's walking around taking pictures and video. She does that. Hey, hey, everybody. Hey, so

um, yeah, so like we met at a company that I still work for you left? Correct. And you were one

of the people that was in the infamous row that we talked about on the episode with Natalie

Baldwin, Episode 19. Go listen to it. Oh, I didn't realize it was episode 19. Bob, good plug,

Marketing, Marketing and Communication Specialist right there runs through the just part of

the blood you can't get rid of it can't. So let's talk a little bit about those days. I remember

when I first started. I was coming from local bank. And I was really excited about this job

because it was an actual, like, professional type job. And I remember meeting you, you were 90

days, I believe, is that correct? I think so. Yeah, yeah, you're getting or you're getting close to

your 90th day because that was some type of a milestone. Yes. And I remember just being like

a deer in the headlights,

Shelby 03:09

like get like 90 days, I was still a deer in the headlights. Let's be honest,

Lance Foulis 03:12

it wasn't easy. Which I remember Natalie and I got into that very much. But I mean, looking

back at those memories, it was, here's your clients, here's what you're doing. And when I say

here's what you're doing, it's more like, here's where you'll be sitting in here's your computer.

Here's how you log in random binder of things that oh, you know, the binders, we had a lot of

binders,

Shelby 03:33

they did do a great job of pairing you up with a person who had your client before you

unfortunately for me, all of my clients went came from a person who was leaving.

Lance Foulis 03:46

Yeah, and that's what that's that's like the worst situation that you could be in in that role is the

person that used to support it is gone. Because there's, there wasn't a good knowledge sharing,

I guess that's the way I would put it. So like that person left with the knowledge of how to do

things. So lots of all of the nitty gritty details. For your day to day you just had to learn by

Shelby 04:09

K

S

S

S

Shelby 04:09

identifier? Well, I think a lot of it for me was learned by not doing and then realize I didn't do

and then having to do very, very quickly. Yeah. So that was a thing where like, vendors would

reach out and say, Hey, we normally have, you know, a program coming through or information

coming through for for this program are running, but we haven't seen it come through. Are we

still running that for you? Yeah, that's the only thing.

Lance Foulis 04:31

Like, that's literally like a third party and they're basically coming to your rescue. And they're

being very nice about it. But it's like, oh, yeah, you know, we typically would expect to get this

form by now. And we haven't done it but we know that you need the this material over here

and it's going to take some days for it to get there.

Shelby 04:48

Yeah, I think in the beginning, I had to call in a lot of favors for people I didn't even know yet.

Yeah. Can you run this for me in 24 hours? I promise you'll learn to love me.

Lance Foulis 04:57

Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's true, but you were really Good at your internal network. Oh, thank

you. Yeah, you were really good at that.

Shelby 05:05

I got the hang of it after a while. Yeah. And it just slowly after I kind of had the hang of it and

had been doing it for a while, started to realize it just was not what I was passionate about. It

was not what was what made me happy. It was not a good fit, I loved

Lance Foulis 05:20

who I worked with, it's always the people, it's always the

Shelby 05:23

people. And what I learned, and I did learn a ton from that position. Yep. And I'm very thankful

for that. But the biggest thing, I think I learned was the 8020 lesson, and that in your role, and I

try and pass this on to my students all the time, because I am High School. And for the last five

years, the constant for me has been seniors in high school. So I've taught a little bit of nine, a

little bit of 11 some electives, but the constant all five years has been that I have had at least

one one course of English 12. So all seniors and so one thing I try and pass on to them as

they're moving into that next phase of life is that they need to look for the 8020 You're never

gonna find 100% It's just not out there. Right? You're always gonna have some little bit that

S

S

S

S

you don't love to do. Yeah, I gave an example the other day, I could work with puppies all day

long. be fantastic. So much fun, just little puppies running around everywhere, but you're still

gonna have that like puppies have sharp teeth, or you know, they're not potty trained. Or

they're chewing on your shoelaces. And you know, your new Louis Vuitton bag is now covered

in slobber or did this happen to you? Know, this is just my own? Like, no, no, no. life

experience? Well, I mean, my dog did eat one of my purses. So that's cool.

Lance Foulis 06:36

Just not a Louis Vuitton. God loved Piper. Oh my gosh, I forgot about Piper.

Shelby 06:40

How's Piper She's good. She's getting gray.

Lance Foulis 06:42

How old is she? Oh,

Shelby 06:45

nine.

Lance Foulis 06:45

Cuz you you guys got her before you got married? Right?

Shelby 06:50

Yeah, I think she's eight or nine.

Lance Foulis 06:51

Okay, that's awesome. I'm glad to hear about Piper. I totally forgot about Piper. Yeah.

Shelby 06:56

Yeah, so I try and tell them they're still that that you know, a little bit that you don't love. Love

the puppies hate the slobber and the sharp teeth. And, you know, and so if you have 80% of

the job you absolutely love and 20% that you can deal with, then that's golden. If you can find

9010 That's like the rainbow. Yeah. out there. Yeah. And so for me, it was when I was at the

S

S

S

S

marketing position that I was in with you. It was the opposite. It was the 2080. Yeah. And the

20% were the people that I worked with. That was what I loved and what got me in every single

day. Yeah. But it was the 80% of the actual work I was doing was that 80% I hated? Yeah,

couldn't do it. And so in education, luckily, I have found the good positive 8020 Where it's 80%

of the job I love. And then there's 20%, where you have paperwork, and you know, grading

essays that maybe are not at the caliber, you would like them, or, you know, work

Lance Foulis 07:54

in progress, right. And you don't have to write anybody up. That's, that's also cool. So

Shelby 07:59

yes, it's very nice. Yeah, I mean, aside from like, sending home email saying, Yeah, I

Lance Foulis 08:03

literally thought about that, after I sent said that. And I'm like, Well, no, there's probably some

disciplinary issues. But high school, there's probably some discipline that needs to happen. So

let's talk a little bit about because I mean, from my perspective, you are so fresh out of college,

that it's I feel like for you is probably at least somewhat hard to know and get your bearings

around all that like now you can look back and be like, Yeah, I wasn't happy, I maybe I should

have made my move sooner. And maybe I didn't have to deal with all that stuff that I dealt

with. So do you think that's a consequence of Okay, everybody, thank you. Always fun when we

have these little like interesting cuts, but I had a phone call from my mechanic, and I needed to

take it because I need you to see how much the bad news was. So life happens. Life happens.

Exactly. Right. So what I was asking you Shelby was essentially, when you win, this was one of

your first jobs that you started, right? Yes. So I wanted to find out from you what your

perspective was on. I'm trying to remember how many years you were there before you left?

Was it like three, four? I was there like a little over four. So a little over four years. So you think

about I mean, that's when you're coming out of college things are just like in four year batches,

because high school before your batch College is a four year batch. So do you think that maybe

if you if it hadn't been your first job, you might have figured out quicker that it wasn't a good

fit?

Shelby 09:27

I think so. I think I had a lot of pressure on myself as well. Yes. Just to make it work. I had never

really experienced true failure at something and not not succeeding. Yeah, you know, and

Lance Foulis 09:44

that was hard every day was basically like on some level a struggle. Oh, to not lose my mind.

Yeah, yes, it is. And to be successful what we were doing Yes, yeah. Every day was like a battle

in that sense.

S

S

Shelby 09:57

Yeah. And this was before like I was there about Before all of the reorg started, right that the

multitude of reorg were at my tail end is when those reorg started happening. So, you know,

we kind of had all of those different deliverables that we had to do that were eventually kind of

pushed off to other people. And we had just a core group of deliverables.

Lance Foulis 10:21

Yeah, so to kind of describe that to people. So in our role, we were like, we were managing

marketing projects, which that that's kind of a very loose definition to get more nitty gritty into,

I think a better explanation is like, we were like the gatekeepers to a lot of different things. And

it was our job to work with so many different people across the organization to make sure

things happen. So we had to be subject matter experts across across a very wide variety of

things. So anyway, let's talk some more of just about like that experience for you. So every

single I mean, we were all in that like, right, every single day coming in, the challenges are

really high, the pressure is really high, you have a date that you pretty much have to meet, you

can't miss any of these dates. When you do you get to have Crucial Conversations. So check

mail date, hashtag mail dates. So talk, talk, just talk a little bit about maybe your journey of,

you know, four years you're doing this thing, the people are great. The job is the way that the

job is, how did you get to the point where you understood, this isn't for me, and to make that

courageous decision to?

Shelby 11:31

Yeah, so I think it's also really important to understand that that point in my life was also a very

big turning point into adulthood, you know, coming right out of college. When I took that job, I

was, you know, 23 Yeah. And so still, in retrospect, now, 10 years later. 23 is really young. You

know, when I when I was in that spot, I was like, you know, I'm gonna know what's ups. I'm

brown. I know what I'm doing. I got this. And in reality, that was not the case at all. But I was

handed a one I considered a good title with a good salary, you know, we were looking for Yeah,

we were well compensated. And yeah. You know, I felt like if I couldn't make this work, then I

was failing at life. Period. Yeah. Period. And because also, if you remember, a lot of the people

that I went to college with, also had jobs there. It was different department. It was

Lance Foulis 12:27

an Oh, you haven like people like we really came out. Oh, you and my Oh, my ammo of Ohio.

Those were like the two big ones. I think. I don't think we recruit that in the same way anymore.

But yes, back then. Yeah. No, you folks. Yes. Can you talk about the comparison factor? What

do you mean? So? You're see that's that's the thing. I don't I think that's really important to

notice. Or to note. You mean comparing yourself to the fact that yeah, you went to college and

most people now you're in the professional sector with a bunch of people and there's no end

right? There's no spring breaks. There's no the quarters over. So

S

S

Shelby 13:02

glad that you brought that up. Because that I've I realized about myself is I am a person who

works in increments in life in general. So I always knew that about myself in terms of like

working out, right. If I was going for a run, not a runner. I hate to write terrible. I don't know

how people do it or why you do it. Yeah, Harrison. Right. Eric, come on our friend

Lance Foulis 13:22

Aaron that we used to work with her and her husband loved to run. Do they run in like

blizzards? Yeah. And we would always scratch her heads at that a little bit. Anyway,

Shelby 13:30

I mean, they love it. And that's good. Love that journey for them. Not mine. Not my journey. But

when I go for a run, I always have to tell myself, Okay, I just need to make it from here to the

stop sign. Hmm. Right. And then I get to the stop sign like Okay, from here to the yellow car.

Yeah. Or one more block around the track. Yep. So I have to give myself these increments to

know that I have reached my goal. Yeah. And if it is a very short term goal. Yeah. And there

was no end in sight. Like you said, there was no end. It was just everyday rolling over. And your

end in sight was retirement like 35 years down the road. And that was a very dark hole to look

down for me.

Lance Foulis 14:06

Yeah, that oh, that's an abyss to look at. Yeah.

Shelby 14:09

So I learned about myself that, like with education that you just realized you have no more

coffee,

Lance Foulis 14:16

correct? Well, I was tea, like looked into my mug and like, Yep, it's

Shelby 14:19

peered on its face. True. So I realized that in education, you have those increments, you know, I

have to make it from here until Christmas break and then I get you know, some time to

decompress. And then I need to make it from here to spring break and then spring break to the

summer and then I get to start all over again. I get to look back and say okay, this didn't work

last year. What did I like that worked? What did I like that didn't work? You know, what can I

S

S

S

S

tweak and then move forward? fresh, new faces, new people? Yeah. You know, new minds to

mold. Yeah, all that kind of stuff. So it is very increment driven in education. And that works for

me. Yeah. So At that point in time, there was no end in sight. And that was really hard for me to

kind of get through. And there was this constant comparison, which I also think is part of a

maturity thing. Yeah, I was in that, in that age where everyone else is doing it, everyone else is

winning, I have to do it and when to and so, and these are people that I was close to in college,

not just random people that went to the same university as me, but people that I spent time

with in college I was friends with. So there's that wanting to save face not wanting to, you

know, be the one who boughs out kind of situation,

Lance Foulis 15:35

which is really hard to your point at 23. Because you just you don't know what you don't know.

And it just would be so hard. Like, I mean, I can just I can totally just picture that see that in my

if that would if that had been my experience. Just Oh, everybody else seems to be doing great.

What's why? Why can't I? Why can't I? Right? And that being just a question in your face, right

would be exhausting? Yes.

Shelby 16:01

So I think also, like different teams were functioning differently 100% You know, depending on

who you had, in your upper levels, and who I had in my upper levels that were kind of helping

me manage really dictated my success. You know, Laura getting's was one of those people that

was super inspirational to me and very supportive for me and supportive of me during a time

that it was really difficult for me and so with her support, and guidance, I kind of made it

through a rough patch. Right. And that's when I was promoted to senior. Yep, at that point,

which was kind of the next Yeah,

Lance Foulis 16:40

cuz remember, there was so funny, you bring that up, and that instantly brings back memories

that you just brought up like the, the pressure, there was like, an unwell I don't want to even

say unspoken, but there was definitely a pressure to get to senior. And there was like a, like,

you kind of expected to be able to get there within a year, take a couple months. And if he had

didn't, it was kind of like why

Shelby 17:05

well and not to mention that when I first started everybody in program management had told

me and this was like a direct quote from multiple people. If you can make it in program

management for a year you can make it anywhere

Lance Foulis 17:15

that was like well known across the company.

S

S

Shelby 17:17

I mean in across other companies like they were basically like if you can make it at this

company here in this specific role, then you can do you know, you can conquer world peace.

Yes. I mean, that's that was a well known fact. So it was to add that added pressure and then to

know that it was something of a feat in itself. Yes, it just conquer the role. But yes, it was you

want to make it to senior you want to get the laptop.

Lance Foulis 17:44

We talked about that with Natalie's like that way back, then having a laptop was a definite

mark of success. For sure in there. Because there was there were a couple seniors I didn't even

remember that that did have laptops and basically meant that you were good to travel. Cuz you

remember back then we did. We didn't do traveling. Yeah, on site audits and reissues. We

would go to the processor and audit things. And that was a mark. Especially like the first time

that you did it. Like that was like, Oh, you've got your own merit badge now. Yep. Yeah.

Shelby 18:18

So yeah, with with some some good management in place, at that point in time, I was able to

kind of make it through, learn what I was doing, get my bearings, people that came in and saw

that things. The way that we had been doing them weren't working, and kind of making some

adjustments for us was huge. Yeah. Because I got one client, specifically. And Steve, do you

receive? Yes, yes. Yes. Yes. So Steve, was my manager at that point? That's right. For a very

short period of time, but he handed me this plan. And he said, This is going to be just, you

know, collateral maintenance is what he said, no big deal. You're just going to send in a

collateral order for new issues. Once a month, like no big deal. Yeah. And we had expected to

have 4000 new accounts that first month. And so we only bought enough collateral to issue you

know, four or 5000. Give or take, and we turned around the next month, and we had 40,000

new accounts. Yep. 10 times what we were supposed to have, and we had no collateral. Yep.

And it was like a four week turnaround for credit cards to be made, which is fast, right?

Lance Foulis 19:28

In today's terms, that's a very fast turnaround for was for it was usually like four to eight

weeks. Okay, I was gonna say that was my point. It got up to like, 12 Yes, there was a supply

chain issue and it got to like 12 to 14.

Shelby 19:41

Yeah, so that became a very stressful client. For me very, very quickly. And it was supposed to

be like my easy peasy.

S

S

S

Lance Foulis 19:48

Yeah. And then it just becomes this monster. And there's it's really hard to pivot. That's a fancy

fancy buzzword. It's, it's it's really hard to pivot because you're saying This client? Well, you can

try saying this client is actually really, really, really difficult. And but there's this history. No, it's

not. No, it's all all you have to do is just this little bit. I'm telling you, it's drowning me. Oh, you'll

be okay. Yeah.

Shelby 20:15

Yeah. So I mean, there were a lot of things that I think not necessarily were like already against

me, but things that made it a little bit more difficult for me to acclimate to the position itself.

When I first came in, you know, after about two years, I felt confident, okay, I know what I'm

doing. I can do this. And I think that's really when I started to find myself as a human being and

an adult. And you know, what I wanted I liked and I didn't like, that was when my husband and I

really started taking things a little bit further in our relationship. We got engaged. And it was

right before I decided to leave that role that we got married, right. And so God bless my

husband, he loves me so much. We got married. I locked it down. And then two days later, I

quit my job. I made sure I had that locked down.

Lance Foulis 21:13

Yeah. Yes, by the way, PS,

Shelby 21:17

I no longer have income. So I mean, that was a challenging time in life in itself. And I actually

stayed for three weeks after I give a you know, two weeks notice. But I stayed for three, three

weeks. And I really worked super, super hard during those three weeks. To pass Michael, the

binder.

Lance Foulis 21:36

Yeah, that was your book of business. Yeah, in a really good way, a really good way. You were

really, you were really focused on making sure that you set someone else up for success. Yes,

that was a big deal.

Shelby 21:48

It was a huge deal for me, because I knew what it was like to just be past something that was

nothing when you first started. And the clients that I was passing on, were ones that were

active every month with multiple programs, they were running, and very specific, intricate, you

know, idiosyncrasies that they wanted, specifically for that client. So I wanted to make sure

S

S

S

that whoever was getting those clients was prepared in what they do every month. And so I

worked really hard in those three weeks. And I remember the day that I left, you all walked me

out to my car, Natalie, you Erin, Jen, Ryan, all walked me out to my car, and I was sobbing.

Lance Foulis 22:28

Oh, it was it was hard. Because we were all so tight. As like we went makes me choke up now

thinking about it. You know, we went through like, because we all like struggled in all of our

ways that we struggled with all the clients that we were supporting. And we all like went

through growing pains together. We went we did lunches together, we we vented together, we

talked about how we were struggling in our we were close with each other like we would go

out, you know, you, myself and our significant others would all get together occasionally. And

like have a good time. Like we'd go that do happy hours. So it wasn't just like coworkers. It was

like we were friends. We were besties we were work besties Yeah. And so like, yeah, I

remember walking you out and like it felt like a shot to the gut. To all of us.

Shelby 23:12

It felt like a real, goodbye. Yeah. And you know, going from every day, okay, we're in this

together, at least I have these people to help me through to really be like, Okay, I'm on my

own. And I have no idea what I'm going to do next. And all of these people are not going to be

right there. Yeah, you know, a cubicle over.

Lance Foulis 23:32

So yeah, let's Well, I mean, let's talk about that. Because I don't even think I knew that you

didn't know that you were gonna go back to school at this point. Oh, no, it was like a clean

break. You just knew I knew this wasn't for me. Yeah. And you're in a huge life transition. You

just got married.

Shelby 23:46

Let's mention that. The week that I got married. I also bought a home. Oh, that's right. I signed

my mortgage. You know, which I've never gone

Lance Foulis 23:55

through a mortgage signing before. You don't you don't know the full extent to what you're

doing when you because it's a it's a giant book of things to sign.

Shelby 24:06

Oh, yeah. And you're signing your life away. I mean, it's basically saying we will take your life if

you don't give us our mortgage payment. Yes, exactly. Right. It's really scary as the first time

homeowner you always feel

homeowner you always feel

Lance Foulis 24:16

like I should have I should have like I should have secured myself a lawyer to go through these

documents with me.

Shelby 24:22

I am not smart enough to be looking at this by myself. So that's your first home buying

experience buying experience. We signed on one Friday and moved in that weekend and then

we got married on the following Friday. Oh my gosh. That's crazy. Which I don't recommend

anyone doing buying a home and planning a wedding at the same time. It was the worst it

Lance Foulis 24:42

self folks out there. Don't do that.

Shelby 24:45

Don't do it. Don't do it. Just

Lance Foulis 24:46

two separate times are your guyses wedding was really beautiful. We got to go to your to your

wedding. Erin was at my wedding. That's right here it was in your wedding. And we had our

second we were talking about this before we started recording Our second child, Connor. Boy,

he he had just been born. So I was holding in less than a month. Yes. I was holding him during

the whole ceremony. He was wearing a tuxedo onesie. Fair remember? Oh, wow, I never would

be able to remember that. That's, that's a mom memory. Yes, it is. Um, yeah. So that was fun.

Like, we had that wonderful memory. And then yeah, so So you literally went from job to no job

house responsibility. Marriage. Tell me about the transition.

Shelby 25:33

So it was really hard for me, because it was the first time that I had ever been without a job

since I was like 16 years old. And I grew up in a family where it was instilled in us Don't quit

your job until you have another job to fall back on. And so it felt like a really big failure that I

was leaving without anything to fall back on. Geez. And so it was really hard. And I admittedly, I

spent a couple of weeks, maybe months on my couch, just kind of wallowing. Yeah, my

sorrows. Trying to figure out if I didn't like this, what would I like, and I applied for a lot of jobs

that were very similar to what I was doing beforehand. And I kept having these conversations

S

S

S

with my husband and with my sisters and my friends, like, why are you applying for jobs that

are the same as what you were doing before? If you didn't like that, then we need to find

something different. So

Lance Foulis 26:24

how would you answer that question?

Shelby 26:26

So I couldn't answer that question. I don't know. That was my answer. I don't I don't know why I

keep applying for these jobs. Yeah, you know, it's the exact same job I was doing before. But

that's what I felt like I was qualified to do. Yeah, with a Communication Studies degree. And

then this experience, this is what I felt I fit into cookie cutter wise. So I decided that in the

interim, when I was trying to figure out, okay, I'm not gonna apply for any more of these jobs,

because clearly, I don't like it. And it's not a fit for me, but I need to figure out what I'm doing.

And I need to make some money in the process. My mom, who has been in the education field

for now, 25 years, had said, you have a bachelor's degree, come and substitute teach, while

you're trying to figure it out. It's a daily, you know, paycheck, your daily, you know, pay, it's

easy, you can, you know, you can do it. Yeah. And then you can have time to figure out what

your what your what you want to do. And so, I started doing that. And honestly, when I was

going into college, I had thought, I really like education. And every aptitude test I took in high

school said, you know, teaching was one of those Yep. On the list. Yep. And I did Junior

Achievement. When I was working at our organization. Do you remember that at all? So it was a

business class, essentially, that you went into different middle schools. And you taught once a

week, a class to like sixth and seventh grade, you

Lance Foulis 27:53

did that while you were at the company? I didn't, I don't remember that.

Shelby 27:56

Yeah. And I loved it. I taught at New Albany Middle School. And one other one, and I could see

escaping me right now. But you taught them about credit. And you know, all these different,

you know, economics, just basic and reporting for kids to learn about, they gave you a

curriculum, it was the Junior Achievement curriculum. And you just went in and taught the pre

planned lessons, but I loved it. And then I started substitute teaching, and I fell in love with it all

over again. And I thought to myself, if I love being in a different classroom, that's not my own.

With new kids, every day, then I would really love to have my own space with kids that I could

really build a relationship with. Yeah. And that's what I loved about it, you know, was building

the relationship with the kids and joking around with them and, you know, all that kind of stuff.

So I tried the elementary school. I subbed in elementary for like, a day. No, this is not for me.

The Little People are not my forte. Did you

S

S

Lance Foulis 28:59

substitute in in elementary, okay. Yeah, I

Shelby 29:03

served a couple days in elementary and it was just not not where it was at for my kid. I would

have a hard time too. Yeah. Love my own little person. Mm hmm. And, you know, other people I

do love children, maybe in smaller Yes.

Lance Foulis 29:18

groupings. You know,

Shelby 29:19

I just don't do the whole like Tommy's touching me and snotty nose and, you know, hold hands

while we take a potty break. And that just was not where my Yeah, my groove was, yeah,

you're Yes, my age. And then I tried middle school, and I was like, Okay, this is a little better. I

like this, but they're very, like, emotional. You know, one kid had made fun of another kid and

said that the other kid thought that I was cute. And embarrass him and he started crying. And

then I felt like I don't know what to do. Because if I let go over and I console him that it just

makes it worse, right? Don't and I feel very cold hearted. So it's just very awkward situation for

me. Yeah. And then I found high school and I was like, these are my people. Yeah, they got my

humor, I could tell them to just go away for a minute when I needed a second.

Lance Foulis 30:07

And this is still just you're substituting stuff, just figuring

Shelby 30:10

it out. Wow. And so then I started looking into programs of how I could get my teaching license.

And that's when I found Ashland University's bachelor Plus program. And they worked with me

in the classes that I had for my undergrad. Because, again, while I was an undergrad, I took a

lot of education electives, because it was something that I was interested in interesting. And I

really felt like, and I think I've told you this before. I feel like looking back when I was in the

corporate role, there were different points throughout. Where God kept saying to me, you're on

the wrong path. You're on the wrong road, you need to turn right. Mm hmm. And there were

different points, where it would be very, very clear, like you need to turn and I would just say,

Nope, I got to make this work. I started on this road. This is the road we're taking. There are no

alternates. Yeah. And then eventually it got to a point where he just put a dead end. Yeah. And

he was like, Nope, you only go right. Yeah. And so then when I turned right, the road was a lot

less bumpy and a lot more enjoyable. And it was really hard. Because when I started going to

school, back to school, I was substitute teaching full time, so five days a week. And then I

S

S

S

decided I was going to coach cheerleading. Oh, that's right. I kind of remember that. Yeah. So I

was coaching some of the kids that I was subbing because I was a long term sub. And I was

also working at roosters at that time, I was waitressing

Lance Foulis 31:44

back to do, because you had done that I asked life. Yeah.

Shelby 31:48

So I went back just because it was extra money. And you know, I had a new mortgage and all

that kind of stuff. So I was working effectively like three jobs. Yeah. And then going to school

full time for a year and a half. So it was a grind for sure.

Lance Foulis 32:01

When did you go to classes.

Shelby 32:03

So it was a lot of like, very self paced. But it was all online. And so I would kind of get the

syllabus and it would say these things are due, you know, this week, you need to read this. And

then this paper is due on Sunday, and you have a discussion board post and two responses

kind of thing. So nights, weekends when I wasn't at a game or at a at a practice. Yeah, that was

when I was doing the work.

Lance Foulis 32:32

So what did it feel like? Did you feel like motivated? Did you just get into a little like a groove

and just head down?

Shelby 32:38

Yeah, I mean, I think I saw the end, I saw what I could have at the end. And that was really

inspiring to me plus what I was learning, I really loved. Yeah. So

Lance Foulis 32:48

that was that was you were you were like really enjoying the content of the classes that you

were taking?

Shelby 32:53

S

S

S

S

Shelby 32:53

Yeah, because I didn't I had so many credit hours for my undergrad in English. Yeah, I didn't

really have to take a ton of English classes, more of it was, you know, my methods and

instructional, like the pedagogy type classes that I had to take. So I was really learning what

that word mean. I was learning how

Lance Foulis 33:10

to while you were talking, I was searching my brain. And then I realized nope, I'm not going to

find it rotary have Yeah.

Shelby 33:16

So basically, the the method of teaching, okay. I was, I was learning how to teach not

necessarily what to teach, but but how to go about it, different protocols, that we use activities

that you can do with the kids to get to a deeper level of learning, and you know, those types of

things. So creating lesson plans, and what goes into that, and what is a 504 plan versus an IEP

plan and, you know, different things that you need to know on the day to day when you're in

the classroom. Yeah, I will say the best preparation for having my own classroom was being in

classrooms as a substitute teacher that I couldn't get in a classroom on my own. It's just the

experience of being with kids. Yep. So I mean, learning classroom management was huge for

me,

Lance Foulis 34:08

tell me more about classroom management,

Shelby 34:11

you know, creating an environment where you are the authority of the classroom, but then you

also are creating an environment where students can lead their own learning. Hmm. So I am

kind of the facilitator. Yeah, but I'm also the authority of what happens in this classroom. So I

am responsible and liable for all of the 30 bodies in my classroom right now. And I have to be

able to assert myself as that authority in that classroom. And so effectively managing the

behavior of my students Yeah, is something that some teachers struggle with. It's something

that some teachers come into naturally. And every year it changes and every class period that

changes my methods for every class change, because it's a different set of students. Yeah, and

it can change if a couple of students are absent that day, or you know, I Get students that I

have to watch for another teacher who's out that day, right? I have to cover a class for another

teacher. And so I get additional students in. So you have to be constantly willing to adjust

based on what's going on in your classroom. Got it. And not every day is me sitting in front of

students and lecturing to them. And they're just silently taking notes, right? It's you're doing

gallery walks in your classroom, and you're doing interactive activities, where they're talking to

each other, or, you know, doing group work or reading aloud. And so being able to manage

their behavior along with instilling the content, and developing the content is its own separate

skill,

S

S

S

Lance Foulis 35:42

no doubt, no doubt. So when you're substitute teaching, are you only doing certain subjects?

Shelby 35:48

No, I was in I was in every subject. Most of the time, though, it was they already knew what

they were doing. Okay. And I was just kind of there to manage, collect everything they were

doing since you know, I wasn't really responsible for teaching content, especially in high school.

More. So in elementary, you might be like going through specific activities with them. Yeah. But

it was kind of pass out a worksheet, you know, now when I'm out and I have a sub in my

classroom, everything's electronic. So I say check the agenda on Google Classroom, or

whatever platform we're using. And so for my notes for the substitute, you know, their agendas

are on the virtual platform, have them check in and everything is hyperlinked to the documents

that can turn it in electronically. So they just have to kind of like sit there and watch the kids

make sure that they're not murdering each other.

Lance Foulis 36:40

So that's fair, when you were going to school, did you figure out what you wanted to teach?

Shelby 36:45

I always knew I wanted English. Okay, you always

Lance Foulis 36:48

knew from from day one, but I did have to decide what

Shelby 36:51

level and I chose seven through 12. Because that was where my niche was my niche, your

niche? was?

Lance Foulis 37:00

Was it? Well, we can get into that in a second. That's, that's a later question. I want to know. So

I'm, I'm just picturing you. You're newly married, which is his own challenge you have you still

have responsibilities, house payments, and everything else. Tell me about how the relationship

stuff worked out? Like how did your new marriage? How was it during this time? How

S

S

S

Shelby 37:20

did it survive? Yeah. A lot of grace, I will say, for my husband, a lot of understanding that, you

know, I Yes, had quit my job and put us in a financial, more of a financial burden situation. But I

think he really saw and understood that I was trying my best to contribute as much as I could,

to our financial goals and our financial situation. So he was very understanding provided a lot of

opportunity for me when he could to have kind of space to get my stuff done. And kind of he

took on a lot more than I was able to at that point in time. So I have to give a lot of credit to, to

my husband, I had amazing support from my family and my friends, whenever I kind of needed

something. You know, but it was really just time management. And oh, yeah, it was just a grind.

So he understood that was very supportive. Yeah, throughout that whole thing, but it was hard.

I mean, we had to make some financial choices. And looking back, we both say that it was only

by the grace of God that we were able, you know, to make it and for some reason, we never, it

never got to a point where we couldn't pay a bill, which was very strange, because, you know, I

was making a good salary that I

Lance Foulis 38:42

just left that you it's not a it's, it's the type of salary that's not easy to replace, right? It's not,

Shelby 38:47

it's not easy to walk away from. So, you know, I cut our income pretty much in half. And

somehow, we got through, we got we got through the period, whether I mean, there were some

things that were divine in those in those months, like, you know, we would get a refund check

for something that happened to be very similar to a random bill or an increase in our water bill

that we weren't expecting. And oh, yeah, those things that we couldn't really account for. But,

you know, my husband and I are Christians. And so we attribute that to, you know, just God

looking out and yeah, and being a part of our lives and yeah, and that kind of stuff. So, it was

hard. Yep. But I think it actually helped us in our marriage. Major, stronger. We Yeah, we got a

lot closer. We learned how to manage things together.

Lance Foulis 39:41

Yeah. So Yeah. When did when did your daughter come? Come into the picture?

Shelby 39:47

So she came in, I got my job with my current district. And then at the end of that first year of

teaching, I found out I was pregnant with my daughter got it. And then I delivered her the

beginning of my second year teaching. So I always laugh and like joke with my colleagues

about how I've never had a full actual, like normal year of teaching because my first year, I had

some wonky stuff going on at the beginning. And then I had, I had gotten pregnant with my

daughter, and I was super sick all the time. You know, from February until May, which was the

very end of that year. And then the second year, I was out for 12 weeks on maternity leave, I

S

S

S

was like waddling around like a penguin, you know, for the first couple of months of school. And

then I was out for a while. So that wasn't really a normal year. And then my third year, in

March, everything shut down.

Lance Foulis 40:44

Yeah. So shut down. COVID. Yeah,

Shelby 40:48

yeah. So my first year was the 1718. school year. My second year was the 18 19/3. year when I

had come back from having my daughter was I was like a skinny, my first normal year, right. I

got it together. I know what I'm doing. I know what to expect. And then March happened, and it

was like, Okay, we're going on spring break. And then it was like, just kidding. We're getting an

extra week of spring break, who? And then it was like, Can we come back in? Yeah, we have to

still have to be inside. Oh, God don't have to be inside. That sounds awful. And so then we

started teaching the rest of the year, virtually, yeah. From Home, which was hard in itself. We

were living with my parents at that point, because we had decided to sell our home and build a

house. And so, you know, teaching from home with my toddler and my parents all in one house.

Yeah. And my mom is education as well. She was home all day every day.

Lance Foulis 41:42

Your mom's at the same school? No, no. What does she teach?

Shelby 41:45

She's actually the principal secretary. Oh, yeah. So like run stuff. Anybody who's education

knows that? Like the secretaries run stuff?

Lance Foulis 41:54

Okay. Got it. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. And she, she did that your whole life? Okay. Yeah. So

you I mean, you had like a window into education during this whole time. So that makes sense.

So, yeah, I mean, I'm just fascinated by well, okay, so I'm back up, we had a really hard year in

2019. And it is miraculous that we made it out of that time. And then the aftermath of that,

trying to pick up the pieces of that 2019 year, Kim's house got really bad. And during that year,

and then, and then there was a lot of financial impact that happened on the back end of that.

So it is really amazing. The support that we had, and however, we made it through that as

definitely divine, because we shouldn't have made it through that. So it's really fascinating.

When you think about the hard times that you walk through, that you go through, you really

need to look and see where you're being protected. And where. Yeah, that it could be it could

be worse.

S

S

Shelby 43:00

Yeah. Where that grace is being extended? Yes. Yeah.

Lance Foulis 43:02

Yeah. So tell me more about? Yeah, just the adjustment.

Shelby 43:07

So then my, my so my third year, we, you know, back half of that year, March to May was all

virtual, and then we started the year, you know, 2020, all virtual. So go, you know, started that

year at my parents house, moved into our new house in November was still all virtual. When I

was supposed to come back to school after kind of the work going back, hybrid learning, hybrid

learning. My husband got COVID. And so I was home for 14 days, again, still working from

home. So it was like, Yes, I get to go back to work. No, I don't. So that was a hard blow. But

then that fourth year of teaching, so my last year of teaching was a hybrid. So I had a handful

or more of kids in my classroom. And then I had the rest of them virtually on Zoom. So I had my

classroom setup kind of flipped backwards, I had a big, what are called clever touch, or Smart

Touch boards in the back. And I would have, it was like a giant computer screen essentially, is

what it is. And so I would have my kids on Zoom, pulled up. And I had my desks for my students

turn to the back of the room. And by camera at the very back of the room. So I could see my

kids on Zoom and my kids in front of me at the same time. Oh my god. So having to manage

working with students virtually online, manage like a chat room that's going on on Zoom. And

then Manage students in the classroom and trying to give one on one attention to those

students in both realms. was incredibly difficult. And there were a lot of districts that even went

on strike because they were like, This is not manageable.

Lance Foulis 44:47

Right. The teacher sounds like you're doing three jobs. At the same time.

Shelby 44:50

It was really really hard to do both and but we gave you know, we had to give the kids the

option. They have to get an education and a lot of people it's they still weren't comfortable

coming back into the building. Yeah. And then to do all of that fully masked right now. And it

was it was,

Lance Foulis 45:09

you guys have the most challenging conditions between people

Shelby 45:12

S

S

S

S

Shelby 45:12

know, they had to be every other desk. Sure, at least. And, you know, maintaining six feet, all

that kind of stuff. So it was really, really difficult. It was hard, it was hard for the kids, it was

hard for us

Lance Foulis 45:27

what's really gonna say what have you? What do you feel like you've noticed the psychological

impact on that age group going through COVID.

Shelby 45:35

It's significant, the psychological and educational. So part of it was that I taught to black

screens 90% of the time, because they would not turn their camera on. It was hard. You know, I

would just see their little name. So there were kids that came back to school this year. And

they're like, Hey, Miss Smith.

Lance Foulis 45:54

You're like, I don't know who you are, who you are.

Shelby 45:57

I am so and so. And I'm like, oh, that's what you look like. Wow. So I mean, it was crazy. Them

coming back this year, and, and getting to see who they are. But I couldn't tell if they were

asleep. Yeah, you know, I would have to yell their name a couple of times before they might

respond in the chat.

Lance Foulis 46:13

Yeah. But oh, in the chat, so not even in microphone very rarely.

Shelby 46:18

Very rarely would they?

Lance Foulis 46:20

Just that just sounds like morale in the gutter.

Shelby 46:23

Mm hmm. It was it was. It was really hard for them. Because it's a lot of a lot of self

S

S

S

S

S

Mm hmm. It was it was. It was really hard for them. Because it's a lot of a lot of self

management and personal responsibility that they have to take and waking themselves up and

getting themselves to their zoom class and, you know, not having their favorite Netflix show or,

you know, there would kids be kids that I could hear when they would unmute themselves

every once in a while I would hear their video games and the clickety clack. No.

Lance Foulis 46:52

It actually hear the audio of the video game. Yeah. Would you would you hear the the the

controller noises?

Shelby 46:57

Yep. Oh, wow. Yep. And then I would have kids that were really funny. And they would say, I'll

be right back. I'm gonna go cook some eggs.

Lance Foulis 47:04

Well, hot in the middle of class, middle class. No, I just I mean, like, I can't picture. It's been a

long time since I've been in high school. I can't. And I was homeschooled. So it was a you had

to do things like on your own, like self initiative and everything. But I, I can't imagine just being

told Yeah, you're not allowed to come back to school, and then being home every day,

especially if you're like in your room or something. So then you spend the whole night in your

room, then you spend the whole day going to school in your room. And then,

Shelby 47:35

so I really tried tried to encourage my students to find a different place in their house. That

wasn't their bed. Yeah. Because when I am in my bed, I want to nap. Yes. Like, my bed is for

sleeping. Yes. So a lot of them have that same mentality. So they would wake up at eight

o'clock in the morning and join my class, and then I would hear them snoring. Oh, my God, they

just wouldn't be there. Yeah, at all. Yeah. Or it would come the end of class. And it would be

time for them to switch and login to their next class. And they would still be lingering on my

screen because they were asleep and hadn't so then I would have to like, kick them off. Yeah.

So it was really hard. It was hard for us to encourage the kids and to inspire the kids and to

keep, you know, on track with them. But there was this, like, social emotional drainage that

happened with them, it just they need to be with each other. They need that social aspect, that

interaction, right, and they weren't getting it. And it was really, really hard. So we came in this

year, knowing that we had a deficit of learning to fill, no doubt early on.

Lance Foulis 48:37

So like, what's the situation now in the schools? Are you still like is it still hybrid is it still masks.

S

S

Shelby 48:45

So at the beginning of the year, we gave students an option to do a Virtual Academy, which

was essentially they would be all online, but that would be managed by a separate group. So I

was only responsible for the kids that were in my classroom got it. However, if there were kids

who weren't doing what they were supposed to and keeping up and you know, after the first

quarter, they were failing, that kind of stuff, then they were removed from the virtual option

and brought back into the building. Got it. So we don't have very many, if any, that are still in

that virtual option. I mean, it's a very small percentage, a lot smaller than it was at the

beginning of the year. Got it. And so we've had full class, full class sizes. And then just this past

week, we removed the mask mandate, which I'm actually surprised. Yeah, I'm surprised that

the number of kids who are still wearing masks, I'm also surprised at the number of kids who

are wearing masks like as a chin strap.

Lance Foulis 49:42

Yeah, right.

Shelby 49:43

It's like, like, what's the point of that? There's just no point. They're like, well, it's in case

somebody like starts coughing. It's already too late dude.

Lance Foulis 49:49

So is it is it is it a yes. Is it a situation where they're not mandated anymore? But the kids are

still concerned. And or maybe the family answer could be probably both. It just depends. Yeah.

Shelby 50:04

I think it's interesting. The ones who just like wear it, you know, as an accent, accessory now?

Lance Foulis 50:11

Well, I mean, I'm, I'm curious about that too, because at this point, you have people that have

been doing it for two years at the age levels that they've been doing it and like it. How much

has the mask? And things like the mask social distancing just become a part of right. And

because,

Shelby 50:29

well, I have found during the day, right or doing it when I went the first day that we went

without mask, which was I think, last Monday, kids started coming in my room, and I

immediately thought, oh, my gosh, where's my mask? You know? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. And then

S

S

S

S

I thought, Oh, I don't have to have it. Yeah. And so there, you know, it was it's mental. And still,

I mean, a week later, I'm still like, like,

Lance Foulis 50:51

a type of conditioning that almost. Yeah, so even now, like a week later, like, it's still thought

you'll Oh, wait. Oh, no. Yeah. Oh, gosh, yeah. I just said. I mean, I'm just I'm just picturing it. I

can't imagine being 17 years old and like,

Shelby 51:09

wearing a mask be what your learning experience has been for the last two years?

Lance Foulis 51:13

Or, I mean, I feel real bad. I think my niece was in this one of my nieces was in this boat senior

year is when it all went down. No graduation.

Shelby 51:20

Nope. No prom. No prom. Yeah, that means something. That class of 2020. Really, really took it

hard. Yeah. And I had a lot of students that were, you know, crying to me on during classes.

This isn't fair. Why did this have to happen to us?

Lance Foulis 51:39

Yeah, like that's, I mean, how could you not think that like every class before us has been able

to do everything in now my class doesn't? For some people, that's a really significant deal. Oh,

yeah.

Shelby 51:50

Because we did have a virtual graduation that they could attend. It was like a drive thru. So

there, you couldn't have anybody there. But you could show up. You grabbed your diploma. You

took a picture and it was all live streamed. Yeah, your family could watch you walk across the

fake stage.

Lance Foulis 52:05

You have this idea of what this event is going to be like, and you earned it. Like you spent four

years doing work and there I can just picture like certain kids that I knew that did really good in

school, and that was like they worked at it. Oh, yeah. And they got good grades and everything.

It's like I I did it I accomplished it. I'm going to go walk armor. I always homeschooled so I didn't

S

S

S

do this whole walking thing. But all my friends went to Dublin sewed or Kilburn. So I went to all

their stuff. And I just remember like, good gracious Dublin site. I think it was like four hours of

listening the name calls to get through the whole class, something like that. But yeah, there's

just this, this thing about i i conquered this thing. Yeah. It's a huge accomplishment. Yes.

Making it through high school. And then and then No, you don't graduate, even parties, right

graduation parties. That was a huge event back in the day when you go to all your friends

graduate

Shelby 53:00

that point. I mean, you it was mandated that you could have not have more than 10 people in

the same time. So no

Lance Foulis 53:06

graduation party. It's so that's so I'm, I'm I've said this on a few different podcasts. We've been

talking about this kind of stuff. But I'm really curious because I don't think we know the total

social impact or anything like that, for the generation that went through this, whether it's high

school or college, like just younger people in general elementary school, like what is the

impact? Because two years is a long time very long time at that age. So. So anyway, how much

now that the mask mandate is gone? Do you feel like what percentage normal does it feel to

you?

Shelby 53:41

It feels like we're on our way back to a normal. I feels like the whole year that we've been

slowly working our way back to what we used to consider normal. You know, there are new

things in place now that are the new normal. But even that, like the new normal was like back

in school, but with masks, so the oddball out was the person that like didn't have their mask on

in the hallway. And then I would be asking, Hey, do you have mask? Mm hmm. And they go,

yeah, it's right here. And they like put it on lately. And me, I'm always, always the bearer of bad

news. You have to be transcon. Yeah, it's terrible. You're gonna have to learn to say I have to

play math. Yeah. So even you know, that shift now has kind of thrown a wrench in things where

we're just kind of like I tried. I'm catching myself not telling students. Do you have a math

course this right. It's crazy. Wild, but it is it's becoming a new normal. And, you know, getting

back to some semblance of what we were before and that's really refreshing. I think, for a lot of

our students. Oh, yeah.

Lance Foulis 54:42

When's graduation this year? This year? It's the end of May into May. Okay. All right. Yeah. So

Shelby 54:47

last year, we had it but it was outside. It was beautiful day. I think people felt a lot more

comfortable being outside versus being in a confined space. So that was really nice. You

S

S

S

comfortable being outside versus being in a confined space. So that was really nice. You

Lance Foulis 55:01

Okay, last couple questions here. I would love to know if you could sit down with your 23 year

old self that's been working where we worked for a year, what advice would you give yourself?

Because there's not gonna be you know, there's people in your position, or years to school four

or five years to school to study a thing, they got the job to realize it's not what they want to do.

Yes. What would you say to yourself?

Shelby 55:26

I would say, first of all, I would tell myself, it's okay. Hmm. It's okay, that you're not, you're not

good at this thing. Or it's okay, that this isn't what's working out for you. That's okay. Because I

think for me, it was really hard to get to that point to know that it was it was alright. And it

would be okay. Yeah. One, I would say that there is something out there that you are meant

for, you know, that is better suited for you. And it's not, there's no point in being miserable. Oh,

gosh, you know, what I've learned is that life is supposed to be happy. And if it's not, then there

are things that can change to make it happier for you. And so it takes a lot of personal

reflection, and taking a deep look inward to see what is the problem? Is it the job? Is it me? Is it

you know, who I'm with? romantically? Is it, you know, that I'm allowing toxic people to be a

part of my life? What is the problem? And whatever that is, it can be fixed. You know, I think a

refreshing thought for me when I was in that role was I had to remind myself, this isn't the end

of the world. Yeah, you know, and a lot of times in those roles because there was a lot of

money riding on some of the programs we were working on and some of the clients that we

were working with, it felt like it was the end of the world

Lance Foulis 56:54

felt like you were executing brain surgery on some really make it and then you're like, nope,

Shelby 57:00

right. So what I will tell you, I mean, if you are a brain surgeon or a you know cardiothoracic

surgeon then yes, it is a life or death situation. In my role. It was not it was a making it out to

be and so I needed to realize that it's a job. Yeah. And life should be so much more than a job.

Now as an educator, that's a huge part of my life, and a huge part of my life that I love.

Because I love working with my kids. I love building relationships with them. I love having one

on one talks where they can come to me and and cry or laugh or joke around or you know, I

used to dance down the aisle ways that at our building and I dance in my classroom just about

every day I will put on 90s music and we will jam out why we're doing essay revision.

Lance Foulis 57:47

What's your favorite song to do this to? Oh,

S

S

Shelby 57:49

I mean anything Whitney Houston 90s r&b? Can anybody

Lance Foulis 57:56

give me an example of 90s? r&b That's not my genre.

Shelby 57:59

Why? Oh, it's not what? I don't know. You guys metal

Lance Foulis 58:03

was my John. Oh, dear.

Shelby 58:06

That's what eyes. Yeah, I mean, you have Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey.

Lance Foulis 58:14

Oh, Mariah Carey. Got it.

Shelby 58:16

You got Bell Biv DeVoe. You got color me badd? All for one? Boys to Men? Shout out to boys. To

me. It looks like you too. Oh, yeah. You know, I had a couple. But like 90s, early 2000s was

yeah, my general feeling. Yes. So my kids are always trying to get me like up on the latest law?

Or does something. You know, they're like, Have you heard of the baby? And I'm like, Who?

Lance Foulis 58:42

Now? Is this on a compact disk to still have a CD collection?

Shelby 58:45

No, this is like Pandora or Spotify. So yeah, but all jam out my classroom to my kids and just

creating a space where we can have fun. And I like to take what I've learned in terms of how I

consider what I that I didn't make it or couldn't make it work at my corporate job. Yeah, I like to,

S

S

S

S

S

I'm very open with my students about that. And that it's okay to fail as long as you try to fail

forward. Yeah, so that's a big buzzword in my classroom is that we try and fail forward, you

may have failed this essay. But let's look at how we can revise it to make it better. Or let's take

what we've learned from this and move it to the next. The next thing, you're not always gonna

get a win at everything. Even those people who look like they're winning all the time, because

they failed a lot. It's because they failed a lot. Yeah. Or they're failing and they're just not

highlighting that on Instagram. Yeah, absolutely. You know, this day and social media,

everything is, you know, I get to pick and choose what I want people to see. And that can be

very deceiving. Yes, and dangerous and dangerous. So you know, making sure that they

understand that everyone has pitfalls. And it's what you do with that. That's most important.

How do you fail forward? How do you move on from this to make yourself better?

Lance Foulis 59:56

And I love that. Yeah, I mean, the Falling failing forward. That's so key, I always such a, I can't

fail. I've got a, I've got to get this thing done. It's like what you're describing is a lot of like what

I went through when I was in aviation school at at OSU when it came to the point where I wasn't

going to do it anymore. And I knew it was incredibly devastating. And I did not go through

probably the next 10 years very gracefully. Because I that was my identity up to that point.

Yeah,

Shelby 1:00:26

I actually used you as an example in my class the other day, you did I did, we were talking

about, you know, picking colleges and under, you know, figuring out what you wanted to do if

college was the right thing, or what major it was it you know, all that kind of stuff. And students

were asking me questions like, well, if I go in as a business major, but I decide that's not what I

want to do. Do I have to stick with that? No, right? We talked about all those things. This is your

time to figure it out. And I said, that doesn't end after college. Right. So I said for me, you know,

I worked five years in a genre or a thank you, industry that I wasn't cut out for. And it took me

five years to figure out this is not where I belong. And then I figured it out. And I'm so much

happier. And you're okay. And I'm okay. And I said and you know, I have this friend that I

worked with in marketing, and he went to school for aviation. And yeah, I said, and then, you

know, I'm pretty sure right about the time you graduated, was 2000 1am i 911. Yeah, it was

Lance Foulis 1:01:23

that was so I 11 happened probably a year before I went into flight school. Okay, so I was all

like, I can still do this. I'll be fine. It'll be it'll be fine. We'll bounce back. I can go into debt for

aviation. I'm going to be a pilot. Yeah, matter what,

Shelby 1:01:39

right? Oh, well, it'll all work out. Oh, I didn't know. And that's okay.

S

S

Lance Foulis 1:01:46

And boy, did I need somebody like you to be like, it's okay. Here's how you can fail for x. I didn't

really

Shelby 1:01:53

well. And I said what we had people who were in our wasn't Starla like a English major or

something. Did she? I didn't know what she did. I want to say somebody else in that row was

like English education or just like an English major. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And was working in

marketing, you know? Yeah. So I said, just because you picked a path. Right now, when you're

2122 years old, and you have no idea what you want in life. Yeah. Doesn't mean that's what

you have to stick towards. So you were one of my examples as well. That's

Lance Foulis 1:02:22

awesome. I'm glad I could be and we saw how successful you are. Oh, thank you. I kind of Yes, I

made it. Appreciate that. I did i Well, I think it's more about that Providence thing that we were

talking about. Somehow, the path ended up working out. And it wasn't by my design. It was

definitely by, in my opinion, God's design, because I shouldn't be where I am right now. There's

so many things that should have taken me out. It should have taken us out. But it didn't. Yeah,

we. And we made it and we're here. And that's so much to be thankful for. Okay, last question.

What would you say to, again? Well, an adult who's in the situation? And they're like, Yeah,

that's me. I'm doing a thing. I'm not happy. I can remember when I was a teller at a bank. In

college, there was a lady who came through who talked to me about her husband, who was a

CPA. And it was tax time. It was like January or February, and she just like, Oh, he's this is his

least favorite time of year. And me being a college student didn't know anything. I'm like, oh,

causal winter. He doesn't like winter. She's like, No, it's like tax time. And I didn't get it. And so

she like explains

Shelby 1:03:30

that as a CPA, you would want that to be like your favorite time.

Lance Foulis 1:03:34

Yes. But he hated being a tax person. He hated taxes. And he hated. He hated the profession.

But she made a statement because she was older. So I knew that he clearly was been doing

this for several years. He's only got five years until he retires. So he literally did what you

described that you didn't do he just stay kept going, kept going. And every single beginning of

the year, probably just borderline serious depression, hated life. I can't imagine doing that. So

talk, because there is there is you mentioned a couple things. So like the looking inward, and

being like, just looking at that mess, it feels like a nest at that point. And then taking that

journey to now I know what I want to do. This is what I'm really passionate about. So how would

you advise somebody that's in a situation of looking at their nest, they don't know what the

passion is yet, but how to maybe just navigate through that.

S

S

Shelby 1:04:35

I would say, start trying things, whether it's like trying it as a hobby first, or, you know, Hey,

this looks really fun. Or, you know, a person who's very similar to me is is doing this and really

loves it. Let me go see what it's about. You know, we all have days off. We all have weekends.

You know, whether you work in the evenings or work in the daytime, you have some time in

between we're not working 24 hours a day. seven days a week, right? Take that time to do

some research and try some new things. And, you know, if you are a person that's like, I'm

stuck in the screw and I five years, I'm just gonna stick it out. Good for you. Good for you that

you're gonna stick it out for those five years, what I would suggest is finding something to

offset that misery in your job, right where to put that. So find a hobby, find something that

you're interested in, you know, whatever that is for you. Find something that's that's offsetting

it, and make it that your job is the 20% of your life. So instead of looking at the 8020, in terms

of the full job, look at 8020 in terms of your life, yeah, 80% of my life I love and I do the things

that I love, and I'm engaged in the things that I love. And then yeah, 20% of the time, I have to

go to work.

Lance Foulis 1:05:44

Yeah. And you're okay. And you're okay. Yeah, that's good, shall we? I can't thank you enough

for coming on.

Shelby 1:05:50

Thanks for having me. Absolutely. I

Lance Foulis 1:05:51

hope we get to do it again soon. Yeah, definitely.

Shelby 1:05:53

Alright, folks, we're happy hours.

Lance Foulis 1:05:56

Yeah. More happier. Happy hour right now.

Shelby 1:05:59

230. So it's a little early, but we could we'll make

Lance Foulis 1:06:02

it worse. It's a Saturday we can make it work. That's awesome. All right, everybody. Thanks so

much for listening. We'll see you next time.

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/lancelots-roundtable/donations

SPEAKERS

Lance Foulis, Paul, Kim, Dustin

Paul 00:00

What's funny is I think anybody that starts brewing they have to make something that their

wife likes. Yes, like Yeah. Hey, everyone, you

Lance Foulis 00:06

have to justify your time right and your time. Accurate yeah hello everybody and welcome to

Lance lots roundtable today we are going to go on a journey talking about beer. I turned 21 Just

a little while ago, it wasn't very many years ago at all that I turned 21. And I'd never had a beer

before I turned 21. I was a bit of a rule follower, I guess you could say. But I remember when I

turned 21 I was working at a bank as a bank teller part time while I was going to college, and I

was studying aviation, so I was in flight school. And I remember everybody in the bank knew

there was even customers that came in that knew I was turning 21. And there was a level of

excitement because everybody knew I hadn't had a beer yet. So when it came time for my

birthday, we had one of the girls that I worked with, she brought me a St Pauli girl with like a

bow tied around it and somebody else brought me bought me a Killians Irish Red. And then

there was other people that just like, bought me like different kinds of beer. So when I turned

21, I got to try all these different kinds of beer Killians Irish Red, that was the very first one that

I had. And I really liked it. Later on, I developed a taste that I didn't like it so much. And the St.

Pauli girl, I don't know if it was because it was like a paler ale or something. But I did not like

the taste of that for my first beer. And I remember a couple friends took me out and like we we

we just went and we tried like different beers. I can remember with my friends and I we then

kind of went on a little bit of a journey a couple friends and I we really just liked beer. So we

would go and we would just try different kinds of beers. And I remember for different people's

birthdays, we'd go to a Japanese steakhouse. And I remember having a Sapporo which is a

Japanese beer and it was so delicious. And then I remember there was this little, this little shop

on a strip mall, I guess I should say store. And I think before it was popular, and maybe even a

thing because you can do it now. But you could go in there, and they had a whole wall of

coolers, you could pick up your little six pack thing. And you could go just pick your own bottles

P

that you want. And we would literally create our own six packs, then we'd go home and take it

and try it figure out which ones we liked. Usually, we would just pick what we wanted based on

what the bottle looked like. So we judge the book by its cover. And then I can remember, there

was a really great little store called the Anderson's General Store, and they had a great

selection of the air, you could actually get like Sapporo there and all this different like beer. And

in addition to all of those different types of beer adventures, there was a couple like pubs that

we would that we would frequent. There was old bagging the old pub in Wellington on High

Street, we used to go there all the time. And they would just have a great list of different beers

that you could try. And again, we couldn't see the bottle names. So we went by the name, I

should say didn't we didn't see like any like bottles. So we picked based on the name. And I

remember one of my friends, he always got this one called RAS Putin and it had a very high

alcohol content. So anyway, those were a lot. Oh, and then there was this really, really great

pub in Dublin. I think it was called Yeah, it was called Brazen Head. I actually had to text my

brother and one of my friends that we used to, we used to go there. But it was amazing.

Because back before some law got passed, you could actually take pipes in there. Because we

were those kinds of people, we would take our pipes in and think that we were Gandalf the

wizard or something, we would sit down and we would order our beers and we would smoke our

pipes. But there was this really cool like back room that had a fireplace. I don't think the

fireplace was running or anything. But we would try to go get that room before anybody else.

And we would have a couple pints of beer and we would smoke our pipes. And it was a great

time that that place was called Brazen Head. And it was rumored that they had brought pieces

of a pub from Ireland over. I don't know if that's true, the more in my older years. I don't I don't

believe as many things as I did back then. But I definitely believe that they just disassembled a

pub and then brought it to Dublin, Ohio for some reason when I was younger. And then lat the

last story I guess I'll share is there was a good friend of mine. We used to go over to his house

to win like, again college years single. So me and a couple guys would go over to his house in

Worthington and we would sit down around a fire and we would we would drink bourbon. We

would drink beer and we would smoke cigars. We were we would smoke pipes. And we would in

the winter we would go in his garage and somehow do that. But we just had a great

conversation I could just remember so many great conversations around a pint of beer and

there's just something really special about beer. So all that being said, I'm excited to welcome

to landslides roundtable, Dustin, Paul and Kim, Dustin and Paul, I invited on to the podcast

because they brew their own beer. And I was really fascinated by that. And so I wanted to hear

all about how you brew beer and how they got into it. So that's what we are going to be talking

about today. So Dustin, Paul, Kim, welcome to the roundtable. Hello, nice. Yes. So um, so yeah,

just tell me like your name and tell me something neat about yourself. My name is Dustin

Doherty. Like I said, I'm a home brewer. I started I think it was oh six is when I started home

brewing. Okay, but I actually my my education backgrounds and fine art, so I actually stay

interested in Ulta. Really? That's cool. What kind of sculpting? I did a lot of metal casting. Okay,

so bronze and aluminum. Is that involved? Welding? Yeah. Wow. That's that's a cool, fun fact.

Okay, Paul.

Paul 06:05

Paul krishak I started brewing beer about eight years ago, I think 2014 I was finishing college

and was just looking for an outlet. I knew Dustin brewed beer so much longer before me that's

kind of how we got together doing this together. Okay, I'm the seller man at a small brewery in

Columbus. Okay, Sideswipe brewing. Okay. I don't think they'll mind me saying that.

P

Lance Foulis 06:30

Probably not. Probably not. What's a seller mean?

Paul 06:33

They give me a paycheck. So just like, basically, the back room of brewing, not necessarily

brewing, but like cleaning. Washing. Okay, Kenny beer. Okay. Tanks, things like that.

Lance Foulis 06:51

Okay, that's pretty cool. Okay.

Kim 06:53

Kim Krawcheck. Married to Paul Krysiak. used to hate beer. Really? Yep. Interesting. Every time

you hear me something like I don't know what you're doing. This tastes like trash. That was his

IPA phase. I didn't really understand them. Okay. Now I love IPAs.

Lance Foulis 07:11

What does IPA stand for? India Pale Ale. India Pale Ale. I don't think I like those either. When I

was younger,

Kim 07:18

they're very hoppy.

Dustin 07:20

I think they've changed a lot over the last two. They're kind of the traditional IPAs Are They

Now they call it like a West Coast IPA or very like piney. Okay and earthy. grassy. Where now if

you talk about like East Coast IPA is you're talking more like the hops put in later in the boil.

Okay, so you get more of the fresh like fruitiness. Okay. And so you get a lot of like stone fruit

and passion through tropical fruit flavors that come through the beer. Got it rather than those

kind of grassy, earthy flavors. Got it? Okay. I mean, you guys throw out a bunch of terms there

that I don't even know. So we're gonna get into that. But I want to find out first how you guys

even got into it. And maybe since you went first Dustin, you can. Since you started first, you

can just tell us how you got into it. I think my sort of my journey with beer. I think growing up, I

was always around like the yellow, fizzy beers that my parents drank. Sure. And my parents

were like, they don't drink on the weekends. You never drank during the week. It was a Friday

night, Saturday night. Yeah, have a few beers and kind of unwind. So I think I had a fairly

healthy view of, you know, consuming alcohol growing up. And then as I got older, and I was

similar to you, I think I was like 19 or so when I got my first beer. I didn't really drink at high

P

K

K

D

school at all. But I think it was when I started to realize there was other colors of beer besides

yellow fizzies. It was a while I was at a camp counselor in New Hampshire, okay. And I had to do

a day trip into Vermont and to Burlington and I stopped at this place for lunch in order to Miller

Light. And they're like, We don't serve that. I was like, What do you serve? And so I think they

gave me like a little flight. I think they only had like four beers. They had rainbow beer. They

had a blonde, a red ale, or amber brown and a stout. So it tastes a couple and it was like a

whole new Yeah. And so then that's what I sort of exploring beer. And then at some point, it

was after grad school. I need I think, like Paul said, it was like a creative outlet. Yeah. Because

of financial responsibilities. I moved back home with my parents and well the factory job I

absolutely hated. And that was something that I was like I beer fun beers fun. And I like beer.

Yeah. And I know that people brew it. So I bought a book, John Palmer's how to brew, okay, and

sat and just read like the first three quarters of it. And it was basically like, step by step. And I

think I read it twice and kind of like, assessed like, what equipment I would need. Yep. And

before I did it the first time and then I ran for the first time. It was just absolutely nerve

wracking. Yeah. No doubt, right. No doubt. Is it in the book the whole time he's talking about

it's like, Have everything ready. Think about the next Before you're doing this stuff and all

about cleanliness and sanitation, but sure, okay, that's that's fantastic. Paul, how'd you how'd

you get started?

Paul 10:09

So I started a long time after him actually, I think he probably started what like 2005, or

Dustin 10:15

oh six, but I took a big gap. I think I brewed for a year, year and a half, and then kind of

stopped. I had, I've met my now wife, and we were dating a lot. And then we moved in

together. And and we were just doing other stuff. And so that sort of that need to fill space and

time was sort of replaced by, you know, meeting somebody and yummy relationship. Yeah. And

then Paul started brewing again. And that's sort of what got me back into it. Interesting. Okay,

that's it some background, Paul, and I actually went to like elementary school in high school

together. Wow. We were brief briefly roommates in college roommates. Wow. So we've our

lives have kind of like went back and forth. And yeah, we've seen each other and then hung out

then not. And then I think over the last probably eight to 10 years, our relationships. I mean,

we're pretty or like our best friend. We've seen him almost every Friday. And that's fantastic.

That's a six story. So how daunting was it? Like when you guys, I mean, you probably maybe

less daunting for you, because you kind of knew from him? How to get into it.

Paul 11:19

You know, I started separately on my own. He did. Okay, yeah. And it was a lot easier for me in

2014. I mean, we have the internet and YouTube and yeah, so it wasn't like, it wasn't like going

through a book and be like, Oh, my gosh, did I do that wrong? It was like, Yeah, I can see

somebody do it. Yeah, you know, and I had, I like to have conversations over beer too. So I

talked to brewers around town and get, you know, information from them pick their heads, how

do they do this? How do you how do you do that? How did you get started? Is it kind of just like

natural progression? Yeah, I didn't have something. Because I didn't have a ton of free time in

P

D

P

college. Yeah, the one I did, it was going out and having beers and, you know, probably having

conversations with people. And I think just kind of like, you know, I do need something to do.

Like, I used to be in a band before I went back to college. And that was like my creative outlet.

That's what I had. And you know, not having that. I think that's kind of what drove that. And I

think I was getting so burned out from being in school. Hmm. Like going back. It took me

almost four years going back because I switched my major from religion to business, and it was

just like this completely different. Yeah,

Lance Foulis 12:30

there pletely different tribes. You can't like criss cross those at all.

Paul 12:34

Yeah, so it just, you know, there was I remember there was one semester hadn't taken any

time off. Like I went to Franklin. We had trimesters, so you didn't get any breaks you just gross

right back in. And I made a trimester

Lance Foulis 12:48

is for a full year. Yeah, for the

Paul 12:51

full year, you have three semesters. So instead of like quarters or semesters, you just do three

semesters. So you're just ramping it up. Oh, god. Yeah. So I was going like halftime. And you

know, were you working too? Yeah, I was working like 4550 hours a week all the time. And she

just didn't have any. Yeah, didn't have any time to do anything. So it was I took us I remember,

I was like, it's summertime. And our backyard looks terrible. I just want to I want to mow the

grass and put some flowers out there. Yeah. I want to do something besides go to school all the

time. Yeah. Yeah, that's how I got into it, though. Just, it was just like, I tried something. And I

seen some videos like this looks like something I could do. And I really like beer. Yeah. So I just

went for it. And then I brought him in later, like, hey, yeah, we should brew together like,

Lance Foulis 13:43

yeah, so what was your your gap? Like, from when you had stopped? And then to when you

guys started doing that together? What was your gap? It was a good stretch. Like I said, it was

from about 2007 or eight. And so when did you say you started? Like 2014? So it's about seven,

seven years? Yeah, stretch there. Okay. So like when he came to you, and he's like, we should

brew together for you just like me, like, yeah, no, actually, I was like well, I had a newborn. Oh,

so I had a two year old daughter. And I think we were expecting one. Which they're now seven

and 10. Seven. Yeah. But those early years, man, yeah, it's wears you out. But But no, I my, my

wife was like, Yeah, you know, hang out with Paul. It's something to do. And I was still I felt like,

I still work a job I don't really love. Yeah. And it was like, it'll get you out of a rut, you know, do

P

P

something creative because we're, you know, it's just hyper nose to the grindstone and you go

work and you do your time you watch me take care of the kids and then you you know, sleep

and repeat. Yeah, so it's like it'd be something to do and she kind of like encouraged me to to

jump in. And I think in Paul actually, there's Obviously, there's different processes that you can

kind of use to get to beer as a final product. Okay, and when I had started, it was sort of an

abbreviated, it's called extract brewing. Okay. And basically you buy like a Canna syrup, okay.

And it's I think it's probably like about but it's, it's almost like it is like a heavy syrup, okay? And

it's all the sugars that they get off of the grain. So you kind of skip a step. Got it. But you can

kind of add specialty grains to personalize it. Okay, so the, what comes into Canada is just your

very basic, like, what's going to convert into sugars to alcohol, got it. And then you can sprinkle

some stuff in for flavor and change the hops around and add the side what used to put in so it's

still very personal personalizable. Yeah. But you kind of skip a step and doing it. Yeah. And so I

had done that. And then Paul just jumped right in. Yeah. And he went all grain, like right off the

bat. And I was really intimidated to take that step when I was brewing. And he was like, why

don't you bring with me, like, you can show me some stuff. And, and he was telling me about

his process, like you're above and beyond where I ever was. So Wow. But yeah. So we kind of

started in a different method. But yeah, so like, when you when you started was, like, there

were like, to your point, there wasn't as much. Is it true that there wasn't as much like YouTube

and like, so it's really just a lot of book learning stuff. I think coming out of college and grad

school, I leaned into books anyways, sure, I did seek out books, and didn't really think to use

the internet as a resource like that. Yeah. I mean, there's definitely was and there were like,

online supply houses that still exist today to get ingredients from or equipment from? Yeah. But

yeah, it was mostly books and trial and error. And, yeah, I'm just sort of like, well of if this does

this, and I changed this to this ratio. And there's some sort of proportion fine tuning, then.

Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I felt like there in the brain community has been around for a long time

the numbering community is became legal again to brew homebrew, I think it was like in 76.

And the Carter administration got it. They really legalized it. Did that have anything to do with

like, dry? Like, what are they? What's the word for? No, thank you. Should that have anything?

Yeah, I think that's kind of where they stopped allowing homebrewing. So I took all that time

from the 30s until like the 70s until Jimmy Carter, and I think is actually his brother. I want to

say it's Baba. Okay. And there was a Baba beer, and I think it had something to do with him. He

sort of just like, one of those presidential high five. It's like, Hey, guys, you can homebrew

again. Yeah. And everybody's like, yeah. But yeah, so the there started that community up

again. Yeah. And they existed in like the 90s and 2000s. And they were Tober shops in

Columbus. So obviously, there's a market for it. Yeah. But I never I felt like very much like I

didn't know where to like meet these people at other than bumping into them at The Brew

Shop. Sure. And in those situations, I'm not the most extroverted person. Yep. I think I've

become one. Later. Yeah. Like, I'll see somebody and I was like, what you're doing? Yeah, you

said, you shoot the breeze for a while. Got it. But um, I think then I was like, I don't wanna look

like an idiot. Yeah, just don't talk to anybody. And like, the guy's probably over for like, what's

he doing? Yeah. Shoveling stuff in a bag. I don't know. That's really funny. I so. Okay. My I'm

really curious. Like, what is that when you guys both got into it? And like even now, like, what's,

what would you say? Is the the financial commitment that you got? It's probably all over the

place, right?

Paul 18:50

It can be. It can be frugal at the beginning. But then once you realize, yeah, it's gonna be a lot

faster if I buy this a lot easier. If I buy this, then it just starts adding up. So yeah, if you're

seriously wanting to do it, I would say just invest the money ran out the bread. I mean, maybe

P

like a couple 1000 bucks. Y'all get started. But if you just want to try it, I mean, you could I

think my first setup all grain and everything I might have spent like $250 total, just to get

started. Yeah. That's pretty awesome. Yeah. So I mean, I bought a lot of used stuff. And I think

there's even more used stuff. Now. Dustin just bought a bunch of us stuff off Craigslist, or,

Lance Foulis 19:33

yeah, it was a Facebook marketplace. During the pandemic. We were kind of taking it serious

and not seeing each other. Yeah. As most people should have been. Yeah. And so but he was

always a lot. He bought all the equipment and had all the equipment and we would a lot of

times split costs on the supplies like the consumable part, right? But then we weren't seeing

each other. And we got I got kind of got back into one of those ruts where it's bored again. And

so I just started looking on Facebook marketplace and bought my own little setup. And I think I

spent about 300 or 350. And pretty much guy and. And actually, now that I burned for a while I

kind of knew what I needed to get get going right off the RIP. And so I'd saw the setup and the

guy that was selling it, I recently found out that he was gluten intolerant. And he kept getting

really sick. And he was like, I just can't drink beer anymore. And it stinks. Yeah, so I bought his

equipment. And so he let it go to a fair price. Yeah. But yeah, I think that's a lot of people

upgrade as they go along. So the marketplace and Craigslist, that's a good place to look for

used equipment, because people are, they're trying to help finance their next thing by selling

the old thing. Sure. That That makes sense. So like, it doesn't sound like a terrible process to

get up and running. And what I do find every everybody that I've had on and we've talked

about something like this, that's a hobby, especially like a creative outlet, they say a lot of

things that you guys have been saying just the need for the creative outlet, because of the

mundaneness of your regular responsible adult life. Yeah. And it's funny, because a lot of

people have said, like YouTube, I just started watching videos on the subject. And then I got

into it, like the first guy that I had on, we talked about hunting. That's essentially how he got

into it, because he didn't grow up hunting. And then he found somebody that could take them

out and show them the ropes. And that's kind of how I got started. And everything does have

like a financial a financial cost to get started. But it seems like with a lot of these types of

hobbies, you can get started for relatively low. And then if he if you really like I mean, this

whole setup that we have for the podcast, we started off not anything remotely like this, but

then I really enjoy doing the podcast. So we then we decided to make a more significant

investment. And it does make a big difference. This equipment makes the podcast way more

efficient. So I get what you're saying about like, Oh, if I get this equipment, it'll cut my my time

commitment from this step from four hours to one hour.

Paul 22:05

Well, I think originally to I think we both had this discussion, like originally when you start

brewing, you're like, oh, I can save so much. Yeah, yeah, now. I save money. But it's a fun thing

to do. So. So

Lance Foulis 22:21

yeah. So like, tell me about let's talk about just the process of brewing beer. How do you guys

go about it? Well, like I said, we we do all grain. So basically, we start with barley, majority of

its barley is your base grain. And it's been molted, where they sort of start the process of it like

P

its barley is your base grain. And it's been molted, where they sort of start the process of it like

sprouting. And so that kind of weakens the outer shell. And it gets it easier to get to the sugars

that are inside there. Got it. And so I usually we're talking about sort of how we explained it to

people sort of in preparation of this and I said, I usually tell people it's like making a giant batch

of tea. Yeah. So like I my, what's called a mash tun. But that's where you see steep the grain

and hot water. Okay, and sort of the temperature of the water depends on how you want the

final outcome beer to be as far as like, how dryness, how dry, how much body you want to it.

What are those terms mean?

Paul 23:19

So like a lager would be like a drier beer or some a lot of IPAs are drier, too, like you get a finish

in the back of your throat where you know, you want to take another drink. Yeah. But you can

balance that out too. Okay, so I don't know would be like a heavier beer that would be kind of in

the middle.

Dustin 23:38

Like, well, like a red ale or something red ale? Yeah. LearnEnglish ale where there's, you can

kind of feel it more in your mouth. And like when you drink after you drink it, it's sort of like

coffee has the aftertaste that lingers on the back of the throat. Yeah, that would not be a dry

finish. Like the dry finish is usually it's gone. It's crisp. Yeah. And you Your mouth is kind of you

want to take another drink. Okay. And then sort of the more the less dry finish it's more of that

lingering sort of remembrance of what it tastes like. It was a Guinness like that then I feel like

Guinness days is actually a lot of a lot of stouts people think are like big heavy beers, but like a

Guinness is a dry Irish dry like, it's usually a lighter body and a dry finish. But they're I think

people see how black they are and are kind of intimidated. Got it. Okay. Yeah. So like the

interesting thing about Guinness is I actually did this, I did not like Guinness at all. It felt like it

tasted too much like, like, the, the container that it was in. But then I spent 28 When I was in

college, I spent 28 days going throughout Europe. And so when I was in Great Britain, I got to

have like, a pint of actual It was delicious. Yeah, that's cool. It was so delicious. Can you guys so

Okay, let's go back to the process. So you've got like, your your container, how big is the

container? It's about minus 10 gallon 10 Well depends on how much you're trying to make.

Sure brew and five gallons. That's a pretty common size. homebrew size is a five gallon or 10

gallon, we do five gallon batches. And are you are you heating it in the container? No, we we

have like a turkey fryer propane and like a big pot. And so we heat the water up and then put

hot water into the mash tun Yeah, you

Paul 25:23

hold it you hold that grain with the water that you've measured out and you get a lot of these

calculations are easy to find online. Got it? Or or even like that how to rulebook as a lot of

information on it. Got it. But yeah, you hold it for a certain amount of time, you're trying to get

as much sugar as you can get off of those grains. And while you're holding it, so some of them

will be like, some some grains, especially like darker grains can take a little longer. So you may

have to go, you know, you may have to go 90 minutes, you may have to go 60 minutes while

you're holding it just depends. I've had some that I've done for like two hours

P

D

P

Lance Foulis 25:58

before. Okay. And are you like using a timer? Yeah, just keep a

Paul 26:03

timer and every 15 minutes or so to give it a stir, stir it in the brewery, they just have a fork

that's raking around so they don't have to do any of that. Okay,

Lance Foulis 26:12

I think I've seen a video of what you're talking about, like a big old container and like it's

stirring it around. Okay, what what happens after that,

Paul 26:20

after that we take so much we take take it off, but we're also rinsing it at the same time. So the

grains barging,

Dustin 26:29

barging so you ours run on like gravity, basically. So you have mash tun sets, probably about

table height, okay, and then you're what's going to be your brew kettle sits a little lower, okay,

there's literally just a spigot on the front got it. And this big, it usually has a metal screen, or

there's a false bottom with lots of holes. Sure, fairly small that won't let that grain run through.

Got it. And so you're running off that liquid and it's really sticky. Has a nice, I like the smell a lot

of people hate it, you know. But you're running that off there. And then you kind of as that's

running out, that sparging process is your there's another vessel that's hotter or higher that has

the hot water in it. So as this is coming out, hot water is going back in again. And wow. And so

all the sugary water is at the bottom. Uh huh. Because it's heavier. And that clean, hot water is

at the top. And so that kind of helps you once you get to how much liquid you want. You just

stop. Got it? And then you end up with that's what you call that's gonna be the future beer.

Yep, down here. Okay. Yeah. And then,

Paul 27:33

and there's easier ways to do some people just batch sparge. Or they'll just let it right out of

the container and they'll completely

Lance Foulis 27:38

dump and then put a new batch of hot water, let it sit another 15 minutes and then run that out

again. Yeah. Okay. We found that what we call efficiency, which is sort of how much sugar you

get at the end. We get higher efficiency by doing it's called a fly sparge where you're putting

P

P

D

P

get at the end. We get higher efficiency by doing it's called a fly sparge where you're putting

the hot water as you're pulling off the now word. Okay, what's going to be here? Okay. Once

you're done with that process, is the green done? Or is it reused?

Paul 28:07

You can? I think we both made dog treats out of it before. Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah, add some

peanut butter. And a

Dustin 28:14

lot of commercial breweries have they teamed up the farmers. And the farmer will come in

shortly after a brew process and take it away and tubs and they feed they can feed like cows

and pigs. So it doesn't go to waste. And that's fascinating. I know land grant is really good

about having like composting and they they're they try to have very minimal footprint, what

they leave behind and they even have like a un I'm not familiar with it. All right, no, they have

some sort of program that once you're done fermenting, there's like a layer at the bottom.

That's kind of yuck. Mm hmm. And it's called troub. Okay, it's like, when it's post post

fermentation, it's all the the yeast, sort of Eat as much sugar as it can and falls back down to

the bottom. Mm hmm. So they try to dump that out. And then they have some sort of program

that it did Richard soil, so they have some sort of gardens that they go with that that's

amazing. We do gardening on the side that's one of our hobbies. Since we have K I'm not

familiar with by I remember reading a poster at their brewery that talked about how they all the

bits and pieces try not to go to waste and but that's just that's fascinating is like the process

where you do something another man your waste becomes another man's treasure type of a

deal. That's really fascinating to me. Okay, so what do we do once we have the the beer down

here or the future beer down here, then what do we do?

Paul 29:34

So you know, we'll try to collect depending on the amount of time that we have to boil it for

because I think you're about every 60 minutes. What do you think you're blowing off like an

hour or a gallon? an hour? Yeah, so depending on how long we're boiling for, we're gonna

collect what we need to keep five gallons in there. So we just bring it to a boil and then we

have different hop additions depending on what bitterness level? Or what aroma level or just

even like, the tastes, flavoring. So yeah, just depending on where we put those hops in, that's

what's going to flavor. That's what's going to give it the Hoppy, like balance of the grain,

especially for the parallels and IPAs and stuff.

Lance Foulis 30:21

Sure. So is the whole process, something that you have to do start to finish? Or can you do is I

like to do it that way. Because you definitely want to really avoid any sort of like, bacteria, or

it's brewing process is very much about cleanliness, like cleaning everything all the time. And

then, especially after the boil, everything that touches the beer, or the beer is going to come in

contact with has to be like we have food grade sanitizer that we use. Wow. And it's just got to

P

D

P

be uber clean. Or also, it's just it'll, it'll grow all kinds of funk and weirdness. But there's beer

styles that rely on that, like sours, Paul's are really into sour beers. And you literally, you do the

mash, and I think that's you there is you explain it there

Paul 31:08

are I do make kettle sours sometimes, so sometimes I'll just collect my mash like it the once

I've collected my work, that's what they call it after your for install your green, okay? Like, I'll

collect that, and I'll pitch lactic acid in it, or lactobacillus. I'll pitch that in, and I'll let that set.

But yeah, you just let it get to a certain pH level. Okay, acidity, and then once it gets there,

then you boil it. So like kettle sours at home, I let mine go for a couple of days. But at the

brewery, sometimes I'll see them like just poking to see if the pH is done. It may take like a day

or something. Sometimes I get them in less than a day.

Lance Foulis 31:48

And what do you do with it? That's called War. Yep. And what to do with that, once you

Paul 31:52

get your war and you're ready, that's what I was saying. You would start adding your hops

while you're boiling it. Okay. And then from there, once you get the desired amount that you're,

you're done boiling 1691 20, whatever you're doing.

Dustin 32:09

That's time 60 minutes, 90 minutes, 120 minutes, or however long you want to boil it for. Yeah.

And that's usually dictated on how much our ingredients, the alcohol and then also the hop.

The longer the hop rides in the boil, the more bitter it's going to taste. Okay, so like where

we're talking about the IPAS for the West Coast. Those relied more on Early Edition hops that

pride for I mean, there's 120 minute beers. Okay, that just gets real better. Yeah, our 90

minute, I'd say most of ours are about a 60 minute boil.

Paul 32:41

Yeah, usually seven then. So you may just have a

Lance Foulis 32:45

little bit of hops that kind of get that bitterness for the balance later on. And then like, five

minutes before the boils up, you're throwing in some more, and those will add more aromatic?

Yeah, got it. So you won't get the bitterness, but you'll smell the sort of flowery qualities. Yeah,

or the fruity qualities that the the hop has to lend. Okay, let me repeat back what I think the

process is. This is what's in my head. And then you tell me where my gaps are. So you've got

P

P

D

P

like your grains, and it's in it's in your container, and you're going to put the boiling water in

there. Not boiling hot water, hot water goes in there. And then it sits for 60 minutes, normally

220 minutes. Yeah. And then you add things to it at that point, or you're adding throughout,

you start

Paul 33:28

boiling your word at that point, and then you start adding your hops.

Lance Foulis 33:33

Okay. Okay. And then after you've done that process, that's when you run it through. After the

Paul 33:40

the boil after the boil is when you start cool. Yeah, you got to get it cold. Okay, you don't want

to introduce yeast into hot beer. See, you got to chill it.

Lance Foulis 33:52

Whatever house is a yeast. Are you physically adding the yeast in the process? Sort of like the

last sort of the last step until like the packaging, how do you get it cool?

Paul 34:03

Well, there's different methods. I think your destin was the first one I ever seen. He did it with

ice bath the very first time he ever did it. Yeah, really. That can take a while it does.

Dustin 34:13

And there's a contraption. It's basically a giant copper coil. And so you're run cold water

through that coil. So it becomes basically submersible IceCube Oh, so the water never comes in

contact with your the word that you just made. Okay. And so then I had a pump that would help

I had an ice bath with a submersible pump. So it run that really cold water through and so it

would cool it a little faster. Are you like checking temperatures during this whole thing? Yeah.

Ideally, I think we depends on what yeast you're going for. They all the packaging usually tell

you, they'll say like this yeast likes these temperature. So it kind of gives you about a 10

degree window. Got it. And so that's sort of what you're aiming for. Like on a hot summer day

because we use groundwater for the most part, okay, so it's just I hook up my garden hose, I

still use that chiller, the one I have now is longer and bigger. So there's more surface area

coming in contact with the beer, so it works faster. And so you're saying that's what you're

using to chill to do the chilling.

P

P

P

D

Paul 35:16

I mean, some people that just bring over beer that took him like two hours to chill, I think I have

tasted like flaws on that. But interesting. The one that we have now the one that we use you

primarily is a plate chiller. And it just pumps through these plates has all these little plates and

that the beer goes through other plates and that's all contacted through there. So just pumping

into the vessel got it and it's just similar process chill and it really fast it only take now on a

summer day might take like five, not even maybe two minutes to chill five. Oh, wow. Okay, but

yeah, there are times when it's really hot outside, it will take longer, but it's it doesn't take

more than 510 minutes, even with a plate chiller.

Lance Foulis 35:59

And you guys said that this that you're doing the the main thing that everything is in is a 1010

gallon?

Paul 36:06

Five, but our first one is usually bigger, because if beers in a tight space, it's kind of put it in

boil

Lance Foulis 36:13

over to Yeah, got it. Okay. Like, I think I have a 15 gallon pot. That's when I the one I bought off

marketplace. And that's if someone's going to think about home brewing, I would say go bigger

off the bat. Sure. It doesn't hurt to have extra room. And then if you do decide to go up and do

10 gallon batches, but I found that I sort of formulate for like six or seven gallons because of

loss along the way. Sure. Like Paul mentioned, you lose it as you boil. Yep. And then also just

your equipment sorted. Keep some of it like when I'm pouring it from one container to the next.

A lot of time there's some goop in the bottom you really don't want to carry along so you're you

feel you don't feel as bad about getting that last drop out. You can sacrifice like that looks kind

of gross. I'll leave that behind. Sure. And then you're still hitting along the way or at least fill

that five gallon target. So yeah, that I guess that maybe that's where that came from. So the

end result is you're going to get a five gallons really

Paul 37:09

Yeah, wow. Times a little extra. If you're dry hoppin, you're going to lose them. So you might

want to get six or five and a half at the end. Because some beers you want to dry up. Like

that's a little later in the process. You got a pitcher yeast first. That's when you get it to the

temperature. Usually between 6575 degrees somewhere in there. Okay, that's when you

pitcher yeast. And that's going to be usually just left alone for Yeah, it a couple weeks or we

can have got it you only touch it.

Lance Foulis 37:42

P

P

P

Lance Foulis 37:42

Okay, it was your as your cooling it or after you call it you go from that? boil kettle. And then

we I we both prefer, it's a big looks like those five gallon water jugs you see in an office like

yes, upside down LA Times? Well, there's glass ones you get as home brewers are called

carboys is the trade term for them got it. And we that's what we typically ferment and glass is

non porous, you can clean it really well. And it doesn't carry flavors along with it. Some people

use plastic, and that's fine. It's affordable. It's definitely cheaper. Yeah. But yeah, once you go

from the boil kettle, and then you go into what you call your fermenter or the carboy. Okay, and

then that's when you pitch that yeast. And then do you do it? Do you do it. So like as soon as

you've cooled yet, then it goes into the other container, you put the yeast in there first.

Paul 38:33

Yeah, you kind of move it you can do either way, just depending on what your aeration

situation is because you want to get as much oxygen into that beer as it's like, if you're moving

it over, you could probably just pour it in and run it right over top because it's it's moving God

into the vessel but and inside so I mean, I don't want to give away their secrets. But all

breweries will take like their dry yeast. And we'll just get it kind of wet. And they'll rehydrate it

that dry yeast and to get a little warm. Notice throw it in the fermenter and just run that that

word right over top of it. And it'll just be in the bottom of that. Whatever they call it, the big

vessels can fermented fermented tank. Yeah, got it. So, yeah, and you know, the liquid yeast a

lot of times when we're home brewing, we just kind of like you shake it up or we'll use like a

mixer and mix it all up then want it like it, especially our liquid yeast. Sure. Yeah, that's how

we'll usually do it. But I never had a problem with yeast. It's not it's always worked. Yeah,

Lance Foulis 39:40

that's it. Okay, that that the process is making sense. So then once you get it in a fermenter

you pick how long you want to set it. Like yeah, sorry for

Paul 39:49

Yeah, generally, I think most beer will be a few weeks and and sometimes you move it into a

secondary vessel, like in the bird They have like conical so there's a like a, it comes down to a

point. Yep. So well all we had to do is open a valve and that just spits all

Lance Foulis 40:09

that jumps out though the US geez, yeah. Okay

Paul 40:12

clears everything up a bit,

P

P

P

Dustin 40:14

but as a homebirth, the firming of that. So after it's I usually do, I'm very kind of like, I do one

week and the firm Enter, and then I move it over to it's called a secondary, or it's just going to

sit a little extra longer. And I do two weeks in a secondary. And I just, it's for me, it just works

out better for different beer styles, it probably go faster, and some could probably go longer.

But that's just the schedule I've always done. And it works. So like, Are you checking on it?

Yeah, kind of you don't really want too much. That's sort of the benefit of using the glass

carboy is you can peek in, in a sense. Like just to look at it visually. Yeah, and see what's going

on with it. And there's this little thing at the top of the bottle, like when it comes to a neck.

There's a bomb that goes in or like a cork and then it has a hole drilled in it and there's a little

plastic thing is called an airlock. Okay, let the air lock does is it lets co2 out because as it's

fermenting, the yeast is converting sugars into ethyl alcohol magics happening. Yeah, and

then. But it's also releasing co2 gas. So if you have it completely sealed up, it'll pop and a lot of

times you'll get a mess. Yeah, so this airlock let's that just has a little bit of sanitizer in it. So it

kind of bubbles. Uh huh. So it lets air out but no air in. Okay. So you can kind of gauge how

you're doing by looking at the like, how many bubbles per second? Wow, you can kind of see

okay, yeah, it's really looking good. And like, yes, it's hard not to especially as a first time are

Ivoryton buckets to start with really I brought by Kit plastic five gallon, their food grade, but I

think they're six gallon buckets because we're trying for a five gallon batch. So yeah, a little bit

of extra space. Yeah, but as a kid I bought from it's a brew shop here in Columbus called

Gentiles and it was like everything the need to brew your first batch. Okay, and so it had like

two buckets. One had a spigot on it came with a big plastic tubing probably three or four foot

long stick with like a spring loaded nozzle to fill bottles later. capper to cap the bottles later.

But it was just like I'm trying to think I think it came with a funnel. And it was just sort of like

this is the bare necessities. Yeah, I remember like trying to sell Yeah, I think that is good value

for your money is after you kind of source all these individually. Yeah, like buying the package

deals way to go. But then you have this five gallon bucket that's opaque. And so it just like isn't

working. What's it look like? And I've never brewed? I've never knew known anybody that

brewed. I've never seen beer brewing in the process. So I'm just like, but did the bucket has a

hole in the top where you can put the airlock in? Yeah. And so you're seeing the bubbles

happen? Yeah, but you want to crack it open so bad, but you really don't. Then you're going to

introduce like, if you have a pet, a stray cat hair or a dog falls in there. A speck of dust scale

over your knees when you don't expect it. And then it's just like I bite to just ruin that. And it's

just you got to just let it ride. What Okay, so like, first time like you're brewing beer. I'm just

picturing myself I'd be a complete mess. But how confident are you at the end of the process

that you're not gonna make yourself super sick? Not at all.

Lance Foulis 43:33

Like after the fermentation when I'm sure I peeked once or twice. And while it ferments like if

you like, now I have a carboy. So I can watch it happen. If you are looking at it, you can literally

see the liquid, like churning inside there, you can see how the starts to come together. It's

called flocculation. Or they they sort of gang up together and hang out. So you see these

chunks floating around and like what's the chunks I don't like? Yeah, yeah, but there there is

that bad. Right? So you see all this stuff happening. And then after it's done, like within the

carboy you can see like at the bottom, there's probably about a quarter inch of this really kind

of white, like silty that's all your yeast that's fallen to the bottom. They're now fat and happy in

their sleep and at the bottom. Wild. On top. Like all this sort of like really kind of gross looking

foam happens on the top because yeah, ale yeast and ales, ale beers are easier for home

D

brewers to brew because the yeast works at room temperature. Got it where a lager yeast you

need to refrigerate. So you need they like about 50 degrees or so to ferment. So you need to

have your own creation and that that's where you get into the temperature controls or

temperature control fermenters and like to run a glycol chiller on this thing. Yeah. And it's just

like then you're all this other equipment. I've tried to keep it basic. I pretty much just stick to

ales. Yeah. And so it's just like I put it in a cool corner of my house. I wrap it with a bath towel.

Yeah. Because you don't want light in there lights bad for beer. Is that That's similar to

kombucha, right? That would be Yeah. Yeah. But you want to keep the light off of it. So I just

put a bath towel around it or but I can still see the Bubbler going. And then sometimes I'll just

take a peek put it back. Yeah. But yeah, that when you first your first batch, you look at it like

this. Yeah, gross. Okay. So then you move it over, either to like, the bucket you're going to

bottle into, or, like you're doing a secondary, you move it over, and there's all this junk left at

the bottom. That's where I say I kind of make a bigger batch than I need, then I can feel bad

about like, I want to leave that. And just, I just don't mind on the saying this is leftover. Some

people reclaim it, reuse it. And is that like, is that like the thing? We're like you have them you

can have a mother. And then the kind of I think that's more like a sourdough thing in truth.

Yeah, my brother does in New York. Yeah, I know that pizza, like will brew a batch of beer, and

then kind of retain that and then move it for the next next batch. And then okay, so you don't

have like one that's constantly growing. You just keep it keep the chain moving, of like you

keep a little from the last batch to us. And the next batch. Yeah, keep a little from that batch to

move to the next batch. Does that give you control over flavor? It does. And then it sort of kind

of creates its own unique flavor. I think Jersey time there's one of the wild the granddaddy

breweries here in Columbus is barleys. They have a location on the high street in the short

north area. Yep. Yep. And the guy that owns that he was a home brewer. And from what I hear,

I've never I've talked to him like one time for like a very brief Yeah, maybe a few times. But um,

but the word on the street is he's a very, very hospitable to home brewers. And he's had this

strange yeast that he uses any cabinet perpetually going. And they've been open for I guess, I

want to say about as it been 30 years or 20 years, I think they're the longest ones. But he kind

of always has this yeast on hand. And my story is, is if you catch them at the brewery and ask

him for some he'll, like fill up like a little growler of it. And it's like, you get this giant container.

This is a story that someone told me and it's like, he's like, Sure, I'll get you some nice and it's

like this giant, like half gallon container, and you're using maybe an ounce. And so it's like, Oh,

great. What do I know? He's just, he's just really helped. Happy to help. homebrewers and he

had super cool. Prior to the pandemic, they'd held a homebrew competition, like every year for

like, 20 some years. Wow. So they haven't picked it back up yet. I don't know. I could say.

Okay, that this is like super fascinating. Like, Kim once got into trying to brew kombucha? Who

gave you the who gave you the? Yeah. Oh, that's right. Yeah. So she was doing like, I mean, it's

nothing like what you guys are describing, like at all? Okay, so history. Was it monks that came

up that figured out beer? I think it goes beyond monks. i We're talking like 5000. Back, really?

And I mean, the story, I think that most people would say is it's pretty much saved humanity.

Because it the process of making beer makes your liquid clean, drink clean. So you're boiling

water. And it's also a way like, farmers would have so much grain, but they can't store it in a

good way. So they make this liquid bread. Yeah, it has nutritional value. Yep. The water has

been boiled. So it's something sanitary and safe to drink. So that's sort of the origins of it. And a

lot of times, like when you think of like gold, they were probably hammered all the time. But it

was probably like a 2% beer. Yeah, like it was really and it's like I couldn't even imagine like

who figured this out? Right. But somebody did it. And then thank goodness, but But yeah, it

was but yeah, it was common that actually the it was they call them l wives. It was sort of the

the wives responsibility. And so most brewers right off the bat are women. Oh, I mean, it makes

sense. Yep. Makes sense. Yeah. Part of the household duty. Yeah, your hands feel so good. I

mean it because what you're describing is a very hands on process, at least at the beginning.

Now do you guys have like a dedicated space for this?

Paul 49:24

I mean, space in my house. It's probably I like to have more space. But yeah,

Lance Foulis 49:30

us too. Yeah, I think similar to your it breaks down and stores. Yeah. Like, there's definitely

guys that have like a small, like small scale brewery in their basement. Yep. Like, and it's like

some of the stuff I see on there is just bananas. I mean, it's like a step down from a

microbrewery. Yeah. And that's, that's wild. When you're done with the fermenting process.

What do you have to do next? Packaging?

Paul 49:57

Yeah, dipping

Lance Foulis 49:58

so you're mostly done.

Paul 50:00

Most Yeah, you're in the homestretch for sure. There are some beers, you might want to dry

hop, which is just introducing more hops for more aroma.

Lance Foulis 50:11

Can you tell me what a hop is?

Paul 50:12

It's like a it looks like a little pine cone. Okay. That's what I was visualizing. Yeah. Okay, so has

like little resins in it. And those resins are what flavor.

Lance Foulis 50:21

So you if you wanted to add it, you would be adding it into, like, it's done fermenting. You add it

in that container. Yeah,

P

P

P

P

in that container. Yeah,

Paul 50:28

say like 510 days, you can throw it right into the container it. It's sanitary. I don't know how

Dustin 50:36

Yeah, well, we use the hops, we typically use or processed, it's not like that whole little, that's

called like a cone or the hot flour. We use it's their hot pellets, where they take that flour and

basically pulverize it. And then they bind it together with some sort of food grade gum, got it,

and it extrudes out and they just sort of cut it. So it literally looks like little tiny pellets. But it's

great, actually, you get more bang for your buck with those because if you throw the whole

cone in there, just the outer letter layer is touching the boiling beer with the pulverize pellet, as

soon as you touch it, then it basically dissolves into the the liquid. Oh, and so you get more

hospitalization where there's more surface area touching the bits of pop, so you can use less

hot but get more of the bitterness or the flavor out of it. Okay, so that's what you're doing with

the hops is is affecting the bitterness, bitterness and overall flavor. Overall flavor. Yeah. And

aroma, aroma. Again, with hops. It's tricky, because it's like when you're putting it in. Yeah. So

the very the longer it sits in the boil, the better it gets. So you get really bitterness. If it sits in

there for an hour, an hour and a half. If you're putting it in in the last five minutes, it's more or

less, it's going to affect the taste. Yeah, it's not the bitter taste heard. That's when you're

getting more of the fruitiness from it. And then like Paul said, at the very end, when you're

putting it into the after it's been fermented the dry hop, yeah, you're it's almost 100% smell. So

if you're not going to impart much flavor, you're imparting absolutely no bitterness, but it's all

smell that you're getting.

Paul 52:11

But that can sometimes affect how you perceive taste for sure

Lance Foulis 52:15

how you perceive the taste. Yeah, that's interesting. Have you guys ever like brewed and like,

you get the final product? And it's like, wow, and then you don't remember the process? So you

can't replicate it?

Paul 52:28

No, we both are pretty good about writing everything down. Or

Lance Foulis 52:34

is this is a beer journal?

P

D

P

P

Paul 52:36

Yeah, journals. That's dope. They also online, there's references. Like I use one called bruger.

You can just type everything and we use the same one. And you can go through and add notes

through the whole process,

Lance Foulis 52:48

just like an online app. Yeah, yeah, it's I don't know. I don't think they have an app. I had to

Yeah, yeah. Exciting. That's cool. Okay, so how do you have time to write while you're doing

this? Sort of like there. There is big breaks, because you're waiting. Like when you're mashing,

you're waiting that hour. Got it. So it's like you're kind of setting up for your next step. But that

typically doesn't take that whole time of mashing. So there are times where, like, we'll set up a

couple chairs. Yeah, so let's sit down and like we have our timer set and we are like, some

Facebook and yeah, music are like, Hey, do you see that article? We need to stir and like 30

seconds. All right, I'll get this stir. That's awesome. But uh, cleaning some things in but yeah,

clean things in between because sometimes something you use in step one, you'll need again

in step five, so you got to get clean, clean and sanitize if needed, then, or you need a whole

kind of thing set up for step three. So you kind of start well, let's start sanitizing or fermenter.

And we'll get the RS chiller system set up with the hoses and pump. So we can circulate the

liquid through and that's okay, this is so wild. i Okay, I want to get your take on this. When I

when I was in flight school, we had checklists literally for everything. And it was all about being

safe, because you don't want to crash. Yeah. Most most days you don't want to crash to good

life goal, right to not crash. So like we would every single plane had basically like a notebook

that was just like checklists for whatever you're about to do. Okay, I am getting ready to turn

on the engine. Let me go through my engine checklist. We had a checklist that we went

through while we're going into land. All these things to look at look out the window, make sure

you still have a wheel. Which is really important if you have landing gear that goes up and

down obviously, but even with like landing gear that doesn't go up into the plane, you still want

to go look as a habit to make sure you can see a wheel. Obviously that makes sense. But I

remember never getting to a point where I was comfortable enough with a checklist that I

didn't look at it. Yeah. Well, you weren't. You were actually required to look at it but there was

plenty of times I was flying by myself and I wouldn't have to but I never felt safe enough to not

look so like. It's good to have it. When are you guys doing anything like that while you're going

through all this stuff?

Paul 55:07

Yeah, I have forgotten a step before. Oh, yeah, I don't put Irish moss and like was my beer so

cloudy? What did I yeah, that's

Dustin 55:14

sort of like it doesn't really affect the flavor it affects the appearance of it. What this way he

was talking about so it's not detrimental appearance like how like what is it a clarity at the end?

Like if it's you have a nice clear beer or is it kind of like, hazy and hard to see through? Yeah.

P

P

D

Okay. So Irish moss is an additive that you can kind of put in at the end of the boil, and it's

literally a moss and it goes from Ireland. Yeah, sure. I don't know. But yeah, it just sort of kind

of has some sort of, we're not chemists by any means. We were meant to say the disclaimer,

definitely more of a chemist than I do. But definitely, like home self taught homebrewers. But

we know that when you put Irish Mohsen. I don't know why, but yields a clear beer. Got it. But

yeah, that means this is such such a wild process. Okay, have you ever made a giant mess?

I've had to boil over Yeah. And that's right, as the beer may have run, or you run them through,

and you have your beer and your boil kettle and you're bringing it up to temperature to boil,

right? It hits this point where it gets a little punchy. And, like, what does punchy mean? You get

this sort of real fine foam layer gets about 190 degrees or so boil is about to 11 as boil. Okay,

sure. So about 180 190 You see this sort of like a real fine, thin, thin foam, go over the top, like

where we're getting there. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, it seems like it's like, boil now. And it

just gets really like crazy. And especially it depends on how much you know, we use propane

burners. So like, how much do we have it cranked? Yeah, and you're better to creep up on it. I

get impatient and crank it. That would be me. Like, I want to I don't want to spend all day doing

this. I gotta get to my oil quick. So I have a tendency of cranking my burner up. But then I have

to remember when I see that I need to start back in my propane off because it's going to boil at

any second. And if you get distracted in the slightest, right? When it does, you look back and

it's just phone is flowing over the pie all over the floor. Like we both use our garage is our

brewery here. And so it's like he got the sticky mess on the floor. And like how much did I just

lose? I don't know. Yeah, I feel like Paul, you had a memory. Yeah.

Paul 57:31

Yeah. I didn't want to share somebody else's. I did see the aftermath of a blow off at the bird.

Avery one time, and it was a it was a disaster. All the way up to Oh, yeah, it was probably 15

feet high. Yes.

Lance Foulis 57:51

Yeah, sometimes the fermentations a little more excitable than you anticipate. And I talked

about the little airlock, you put in some beers, you just know, there tend to be like a heavier

beer, like you talked about raspian, which is like an Imperial Stout. Those tend to ferment a

little more vigorously. And so instead of that little guy, I just got mine at Home Depot, but it's

just a tube that's about it fits perfect. And it's tough in that bottle, and then it runs down and I

just have a little bucket of sanitizer. And because that little tiny hole is not going to do it. And if

you don't anticipate that, yeah, clogs the hole, and then it pops out. And I've had chunky stuff

on Imperial style when I first started brewing, and I came home from work and I had it on my

car. And I was living with mom and dad at the time. I don't know if they knew it or not, but I

cleaned it up before they could see it.

Paul 58:45

That's what's happened. Pre fermentation. Oh, really? Yeah, it's pretty wild. I've never seen

anything like that. But I've done the same thing you've done yeah, with the boy like the what

do they call that boil over. Now, it's, it's called something when I didn't have a blow off to one

P

P

once and I never had like, I don't use them anymore, because I have vessels big enough for

that alcohol vapor to go. But if you have it in a tight container, sometimes that can be a recipe

for disaster.

Lance Foulis 59:19

I can't even imagine I'm writing something down. Because I know how I want to do the next

step here. So what we're gonna do now is we are going to transition into the next phase of the

podcast. This is gonna be the last part of this awesome podcast, where we're going to pause

the recording, we are going to get set up because Dustin and Paul brought some home brewed

beer that we get to try and we're really excited to try it and I'm going to ask all the questions

like what the heck hoppy means. Yeah. What was my other thing that I wanted to ask? Yeah,

like the term hoppy and then We got you guys already talked to me about like dry and

everything. So we'll take up we'll take a pause here and then we'll be right back okay,

everybody, we are back and we have the beers that have been home brewed laid out in front of

us, we have four different kinds. I'm gonna, I'm gonna read them. And then if you guys want to

just tell me whatever fun facts you want to tell me about? Actually, let's do this. I'll read them

and then you just tell me about these beers. That's what I'll do. I'll read all four of them. And

then you just tell me what, whatever we want to know about these four beers. So first, we have

the smoked lager. Then we have a pale ale, and we have an old ale. And then we have an oat

Neal Porter, which sounds fascinating. So what's going on with these beers?

Paul 1:01:07

The Lager is the one that takes the longest it's the it's the it's lagered so chills Yes, it fermented

ferments and cold Yep, temperature. And then it has a little slight bit of smoke grains and it's

actually an all German recipe. So all the grains are all German. All the hops are German,

everything. Just tried to do like a real basic. I forget what they call it rush beers. That what they

call smoke. Yeah, yep. Yes,

Lance Foulis 1:01:35

beer Roush rounds, Ross Roush.

Paul 1:01:39

So just a German smoked lager. And you can tell him about that pill because that's really your

Lance Foulis 1:01:45

Yeah, the second one's a pale ale palos, probably one of my favorite styles of beer to drink. I

feel like when I get a pale ale i really like I like it when they're super balanced. I don't want it

super Hoppy, but not super multi. It's something like it's a session beer, you want to drink it?

Over a period of time? What is hoppy mean coffee is that sort of bitterness, bitterness. And so

like, again, it can either be bitter or just overwhelming floral or fruity sort of flavors or aromas.

P

P

But when typically when I'm talking about like a balance, and I say it's super Hoppy, I'm talking

like It's bitter. Yeah, a very strong bitterness. So what about the multi multi is more the

sweetness quality of the beer, and those two sort of play together to balance it out? Sure. So a

an IPA would be kind of on that hoppy and where the third one we're going to have is the old

Ale, which has more malt in it. So it's gonna be on the multi-year side with very little hops. Even

in the recipe. It probably has very little hops does multi equal more foam? I'm not really not

necessarily. And what governs how fizzy, carbonated thank you card. What governs that?

Paul 1:03:00

We have suggestions for each style. Yeah, kind of how much pressure?

Lance Foulis 1:03:04

There's like charts that you can look at, like, we force carb. So because we both CAGR beer.

Bottling is very small kegs. Yeah, it's a five gallon keg five gallon, can you?

Paul 1:03:18

Yeah, we used to bottle it was just such a pain. I was Ted you're spending three hours cleaning

bottles and sanitizing the bottle sanitizing albums, and I can't imagine dumping in a keg and

call it a day for it. So

Lance Foulis 1:03:32

kegs are easier to clean. Yeah.

Paul 1:03:35

So yeah, just let them soak.

Dustin 1:03:37

They kind of there's not a ton of parts to okay, really. So you can you take it apart and just you

can either just soak it. My wife bought me this cool contraption for either my birthday last year

Christmas. I can't remember which. But it's a like keg washer for like a homebrewer. Nice. That

also works for the car boys the fermenters because those get kind of gunky, because they're

set down. Yeah. And like I talked about, you get that foamy ring along the top and it leaves this

sort of gunk around the upper edge. Yeah. So before my method of cleaning it was soaking it in

hot water with a brewer. So that's the brewer soaps formulated to sort of break down that was

residue leftover from brewing. Yeah. And so to fill that thing up, that's like six gallons of water,

cheese and it's hot water. So you're using like gas or electricity to heat the water and it's just

sitting there and then literally, you're just gonna dump it out. Yeah, so I always hated how

much water and to make beer you go through so much water. It's crazy between like to make a

P

P

P

D

five gallon batch of beer. Typically, you're going to end the recipe you're going to use close to

10 gallons. And that's why it was your, your grain absorbs it when you mash because you don't

get all the water back. Whatever you put in. You're only getting gonna get part of that back.

When you put the hops in there that's going to absorb some of it. Like I said, there's parched

leave behind. Yeah, so but yeah, sorry, kind of sidetracked. No, no Okay, eggs again, it's like

the thing that I'm learning so much. So like there's there's just so much here. So this is this is

good. I don't even remember we were talking about the old, sorry. But while you're talking

about the Pale Ale and talking about liking it to be kind of balanced between hoppy and, and

multi, and actually this particular recipe, I have a name for its special lady friend, and I sort of

formulated it or made the recipe to my wife's tastes. She doesn't always like a pale ale,

especially the more traditional pale ales are those kinds of piney? grassy? Like, can you name a

couple beers that Sierra Nevada is like? Oh, okay. That's probably the most common well

known Pale Ale. And

Paul 1:05:43

it's funny is I think anybody that starts brewing, they have to make something that their wife

likes. Yeah. So like, yeah. Hey,

Lance Foulis 1:05:50

everyone, you have to justify your time. Right? And you're in the the time accurate? Yeah.

Paul 1:05:58

We actually met the guy, the first time Kim ever liked a beer. She liked a beat a purple haze.

And we actually met the guy that no way that beer we were just randomly at a brewery in

North Carolina, and this guy comes up and I'm telling him, he's like, oh, yeah, that was my

beer. And I'm like, There's no way that's true story. And I looked at my bright there on my

phones, like Yeah, that's Tim. So guy that started

Lance Foulis 1:06:21

from a bit up. That's, that's amazing. Oh, my gosh, um, I had a question and I lost it. So we can

just continue with what we do on do old al now. Tell me about old ale. Old ale is a, it came from

a Irish Red recipe I've Yeah, Irish Red Ale recipe that I'm always tweaking. And this particular

batch, I switched up the yeast. And actually, I had a conundrum where it got more sugar than I

expected. So there's sort of a ratio of how much yeast you have to put in based on the sugar.

And so I only bought enough yeast for the amount of sugar I expected God and so I had to go

back to the brew store. And of course, they were out of the beast that I used. And I had to grab

another one. So I kind of have accidentally blended or unintentionally blended yeast to which

that happens. You can make make a beer that way. How did you What did you know that there

was too much sugar. There's at the we didn't really talk about this. They're sort of numbers you

can look at to evaluate how much sugar you got out of the batch during the process. Yeah, so

after before you typically, at the very end, when you get it into the fermenter. As you're moving

it into the fermenter, we have this sort of really tall flask, and we put some in that. And then

P

P

there's this we, we typically use a tool called a hydrometer. And it's a big, it's a long glass tube.

So like a foot long. 10 inches, 10 inches, and then it has a little bit of some sort of like pewter

metal in the bottom to weight it. And then in the middle, somehow they've scrolled up paper

and have it in this enclosed glass little thing, just but that paper has a gauge on it, like a scale.

Okay, and so you put it in that flask, and you see what level it floats at. And then you get a

number we use typically use what's called specific gravity. So typically, a beer would be like

1052, it'd be 1.052 would be the reading. Okay, but typically brewers would say 1052 was my,

my original gravity. Got it. And so that kind of then from that, you can determine how much

sugar you

Paul 1:08:34

got out of your batch. Yeah, you wait till the end. And then you measure it again. Yeah, so after

a ton of sugar that's dissipated, or yeah,

Lance Foulis 1:08:43

whatever the guy eaten by the yeast. So the, the, the solution will be less dense. So that scale

will drop lower into the solution, which is your beer. Okay, last point. And so you'll have two

numbers, the original gravity and then your final gravity, which is in the ballpark of like 1012.

Okay, and then you kind of do some math and you're like, oh, I have a 5.2% beer God and

that's sort of how you can calculate your ABV or and that that percentage that you just said, is

that alcohol content? Alcohol by volume? Yeah. Alcohol by volume, ABV, a BV. Oh, I've seen

that acronym before. Yeah, I think about anything that's over 5%. They're supposed to put it on

the label. If you're under 5%, they don't have to disclose it on like the recipe that we've been

talking about. I think that was like nine, nine or 10. Probably yeah, that

Paul 1:09:33

was pretty. I remember that one at spaziosa. Yeah, John was like, you gotta try this. Try like,

that's terrible.

Lance Foulis 1:09:42

You're very syrupy and thick. A lot of a lot of heaviness in the mouth. I call those high gravity

beers to um, to honestly trying to remember like, I think, Oh, I remember somebody told me

about line in Google because Leinenkugel wasn't in Columbus, and then it got here and there

was somebody that I worked with again when I was at teller in a bank. It's really funny because

when you start drinking beer and people find out that you drink beer, they just tell you stuff

and you get a bunch of information like, oh go to Anderson's they have an amazing, there's just

like a random purse that was like, Oh, you want to try beers? Go to Anderson's, and just they

have a whole thing of imports and just try stuff. So I remember oh, what's the what's the?

There? There's a one from Britain. That's kind of popular. I think it has like a golden label. Um, I

don't know. It doesn't matter. I might remember it later. But that was one of my favorites to get

at at the Anderson's that in Sapporo that we already mentioned. Okay, oatmeal Porter, the

oatmeal Porter is porters are typically a darker bear. Somewhere like the brown range to

P

P

approaching black. It looks to me similar to again, us. Yes, it's a little lighter. If you hold them to

the light, you can typically see some the light travels through it. Yeah, it has sort of a brown or

ambery quality. Yep. Where again, you're not going to see light through that. And it's likely it's

very, very black. Yeah, and porters and stouts are very similar. In my opinion. stouts tend to be

they can be drier, or they don't have that sort of residual mouth after flavor aftertaste. And

then I think it comes down to the recipe and the grains you put in that release if you're splitting

hairs between porters and stouts. Okay

Paul 1:11:25

to be less alcohol and

Lance Foulis 1:11:26

yeah, and then a stout uses a an unmelted grain grains. So they don't do that sort of jumpstart

of the starting the seed to sprout, but they do. Roast it, okay, so it gets those really dark, kind

of like roasting a coffee bean. And that's sort of where you get your colors of beer to. Barley is

typically your grain that you're using. And then your base grains are very light in color. And

then they some of them though roast. And as they roast they carmelize. So you're not doing

the roasting. Now that's the the grain we buy at the brew stores. It's already been roasted

already. But there's like you buy one it's like it's called Crystal 60. And the 60 refers to how

long it's been roasted and how dark it is. Got it. And that will give you an idea of how dark your

final product will be. Got it. Okay. Okay, like this particular one has Crystal 60 added to it.

Okay, so it's going to have more of like an orangey. Appearance, okay. are golden. Okay, well,

I'm really excited. I remember, I think it was when I got my private pilot's license. We went to, I

believe it was downtown. And I got it. It was like a flight. I don't know if that's what you call but

it was like in shock glasses. 21 different flavors, and it was too much. But there was one, I

saved it like close to the end. And it had like strawberry infused in it. And I didn't like it at all.

But I was amazed that you could infuse beer with strawberries. Yeah, so the amount of flavor

control that you have when you're brewing is amazing. I have like one just general question

before we get into this. Do you guys even like beer at a store? Yeah, you do? Yeah, it's, it's sad

how much beer I still buy. Because we do we brew a good amount. And I usually have like we

both have we call it a kegerator where those small kegs we have fit into them. And mine has

like four handles on it. So I have four of those little kegs and a K grater. And but I'm still always

buying stuff like I've never seen that before. And is that the thing that has like the hose

attached to it with the thing and then like that's how you get it? Yeah, mine. Like you literally

drill a hole through the front door. So it's like at the bar like a tap handle. Yeah. sticks out the

front of it. Okay, that's cool. Has four on it. Hey, Paul's up

Paul 1:13:45

to him. And I don't drink much at home. Actually. We do. Yeah,

Lance Foulis 1:13:49

they they go out.

P

P

Paul 1:13:51

breweries. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I get that big discount from work I try. So well. It's

Kim 1:13:59

research. I mean, trying other beers. It'd be kind of ignorant to do your own thing forever and

ever. Never not like creating in a vacuum is right. You want to be inspired. So Paul, what I

would go on vacations like Portland, Oregon, Asheville, North Carolina. Majority. Oh, yeah.

Denver, Denver. Yeah, we're going to 16 breweries. Wow. So

Paul 1:14:17

you're more you're walking it?

Kim 1:14:19

Yeah, I mean, yeah,

Lance Foulis 1:14:20

that sounds Oh, I

Kim 1:14:21

have 50 beers this week. How am I alive? But it's really cool. Because you're you're getting to

experience what does it feel like to walk into this brewery? What What kind of people are here?

What kind of music are they playing? How are they in their community? Like brewing? The

industry is just really cool. And then you're going to get to try all the different beers that you

maybe never it's like art you have never experienced? That person started brewing beer and

decided to share it with somebody because it

Lance Foulis 1:14:50

has that person's hand on it. Yeah, they're in sprint. Alright, you can't help. That's a good way

to put that. Okay, well Let's go ahead and try so we're going to go left to right so to start off

with a smoked lager it smells amazing That's delicious. That's delicious. Now I'm going to use

not official speak here as I describe it, but to me it tastes very refreshing, a little buttery. taste

a little buttery to me. And I mean that in a good way because I don't usually like butter. But

that's how I'm that's how I'm describing. Smooth and bright. That's That's my Kim's input. She's

not mic. Oh, hey, we have no equipment, everybody. We have a fourth mic now finally. So

that's why we're able to have three guests. Which is mostly because of my brother. He made a

P

K

P

K

K

contribution. So shout out to Shawn. Thank you, Shawn. He listens to this podcast, obviously,

my brother and he wanted to donate to help. So he donated over the holiday and so we were

able to it okay, so Kim just said if you want to donate to us, because eventually we want to get

like cameras and everything going to so if you want to donate to us, you can direct message

either of us, I guess. Anyways,

Kim 1:16:17

cheers to brother and other people.

Lance Foulis 1:16:24

Yeah, it's this is this is delicious. It's not too bubbly. It's refreshing. It's smooth. Am I using right

terms at all here to describe? Yeah, like, I want to drink this in the summer. Yes, yes. Yeah, it

tastes like a good summer beer.

Paul 1:16:41

I really like this. Is this a pillow or an IPA? That

Lance Foulis 1:16:45

it's more of a pale ale? Yeah. Does that. So the second one? Yeah,

Paul 1:16:49

this one. Like, it really smells very florally when I'm smelling it, but when I'm tasting it, it has

like a lot of fruit.

Lance Foulis 1:17:01

Yeah. Oh, wow. I see what you're saying. And that that was part of Taylor. This is the one that I

tailored to my wife's days, Morgan's. That she favored more of like what we'd call an East Coast

IPA, they're more fruity. Rather than those sort of like earthy flavors and piney flavors, she likes

the brighter fruit here. So I picked specific hops. And again, I use them later in the boil. So

we're not getting that bitterness, we're getting all those nice fruity qualities out of it. I used that

there's Citra Calypso and Hall melon are those are hops, those are all high hop varieties. And

there's hundreds of different varieties and each one lends its own character and do we know if

all of the hops come from a hop? Yeah, I know there are like that's a thing. Yeah. Cuz I think I

heard something where all apples come from a apple Right? Or, or something like where they

they they graft. You know what to say? You know, I'm saying yeah, so I was just wondering like,

maybe I know that like some hops that we use that their their laboratory created at this point,

K

P

P

sure, to get those certain characters. So I was just reading something today where it's I can't

remember what hops I was reading about. But it was explaining like, this is a daughter of a

cascade. It might have been the Calypso. I could be wrong, though. But it was saying that

Paul 1:18:25

Centennial is an offshoot of cascade. So like you have super

Lance Foulis 1:18:29

Yeah. And then I think there are like a hand supercast they call them the noble hops. And I

think those are kind of like the originals. Those are usually using like English beers. That's

awesome. Our kids are getting a little stir crazy. So kind of coming up and down is usually we

can get away with about an hour to an hour and a half. We're doing good because we took a

break everything we're in our 19th So okay, before I taste another beer, I just What do I do like

a nice squiggle water switch. I switch a bit and kind of Cleanse the palate. Okay.

Kim 1:19:02

Do a little dance,

Lance Foulis 1:19:03

do a little dance hop around. We're doing all this with headphones on our heads with wires

connected so we're doing some maneuvering here, but I'm trying the Pale Ale now. And this is

your brew. Yeah, it was the smoked lager your brew

Paul 1:19:17

Yeah, I made this actually, I think these are this is actually our recipe together right.

Lance Foulis 1:19:24

I think it's more your recipe. We brewed it to go first time, but it was delicious. Yeah, that's

delicious.

Paul 1:19:31

It's surprising the the you said it was Hall melon. Hall melon is the dry hot it has almost a

melanin

Lance Foulis 1:19:38

P

K

P

P

Lance Foulis 1:19:38

taste. And that's where it gets the name it's supposed to impart like cantaloupe passion for the

Pale Ale. The yeah that the final dry hop hop that goes in. It's called a hall melon. And it's

supposed to do that like pass through

Paul 1:19:54

the smell is very floral onyx stone fruit.

Lance Foulis 1:19:56

How do you get the floor? That is amazing. So I've been ever smelled beer before? I don't think.

But I'm smelling the Pale Ale and it does smell very. i To your point florally. How do you get

that?

1:20:10

That's a late addition, late

Lance Foulis 1:20:11

addition. So that's where that dry hop comes in, where you're putting the hot after

fermentation is all done. I typically do it five days before I'm going to keg. Okay, that's when I

add that last dose of hops. Okay, and let it just kind of chill out for five days and then move it

over to the keg. Okay. I mean, yeah, this is delicious. That there's like a there's an after flavor

that happens that you don't get initially. But when I when I first take the initial sip, it's it has

more carbonation. Let me do let me do another one. Yeah, like, as I breathe like it's a very

dynamic type of a flavor. I feel like I'm getting did you try the Paleo? Yep. Second one. Yeah, it's

it's amazing, because I thought this was amazing. And I think I might like this one more. So

kudos. Thanks for making this for your wife. Yeah.

Kim 1:21:13

Well, Morgan, I It's funny, because you're saying, Am I saying these words right. Can I be you're

always right. sure that it's your experience. No one can take that away from you wherever

you're getting from it is right.

Lance Foulis 1:21:24

It's what it feels like. Feels like woodsy like organic like earthy. Yeah, I think that might be the

the longer hop the one that's in there for the hour that adds the the bitterness is a central hot

but I think that's bringing it that more of like the bitter earthiness, so that's okay. So the terms

are kind of making sense. Okay. I want to keep drinking that one, but we'll keep moving on all

ale. I'm trying not to make too many like mouth drinking rose sounds.

P

K

Kim 1:22:02

Oh, what are you trying to avoid? I'll do it for you.

Lance Foulis 1:22:07

Okay, so I'm going to try the OLED panel now. And it looks amazing. I should be talking about

the looks because you guys not on video. But it looks like they get darker left to right. Yep,

that's or aiming this old ale. It has like a reddish color to it where the other two are more very

bright sunlight type of color. And it's got a nice, I always like that, like whenever a beer had.

Whatever you call this. It's actually the lace the lacing especially like as you drink the beer and

it follows down the glass. That's how this that's where it comes from lacing right there. Okay, so

new term lacing everybody what that is is like as you're drinking it, and that foam cling means

to the side. I never heard that term before. All right. Oh, what is this the one with a coffee? No,

no, I didn't bring the coffee. What is that? It's that English yeast that I ended up blending. So

you get these kind of like, dried fruit, fruitiness qualities you have now which, like I said, I

tended it to be an Irish Red Ale, which don't have those characteristics at all. So like, as a home

brewer, you don't necessarily have to care what you call your beer. Sure. But

Paul 1:23:18

when it comes to if you're trying to send

Lance Foulis 1:23:20

petition, which is legit like the we've we've entered, there's a national homebrew competition

that happens every year. There's like an organization called the American home brewers

association where it changes your it's yeah, there's every year they knew they did it earlier. But

I entered a couple beers last Minneapolis

Paul 1:23:37

last year,

Lance Foulis 1:23:38

I think it was and like, it's just so difficult and expensive to send stuff out to that. Oh, no doubt.

Yeah. And technically you're it's against the law to ship alcohol through the United States mail

and postal service. So So tell me how you do it. You can but I can say that you're supposed to.

You're supposed to use a private carrier. So like hire somebody and like like like UPS your first

year, we entered the competition trade UPS busted. They call this and said come pick up your

beer. So we had to drive back opener boxes.

K

P

P

Paul 1:24:20

I told him it was yeast. Sam. Yeah, he's

Lance Foulis 1:24:23

the code. How did they figure it? Did they legit opened it up? Yeah, there's ups. Now it was UPS

Yeah. I've used some other carriers that don't have an open packages. So I go with them. Like

could you pay me to do it? Yeah, or not pay me just ask me. I think it's because of the obviously

alcohol is an age restricted item. So they want to make sure you're not shipping it to some kid

in Colorado. Yeah. Early. No. They and by using that private carrier. Or there's I think you can

and I think things are getting a lot more lackadaisical because you didn't get like oh mail order

beer.

Kim 1:24:59

Now they can now They've had

Lance Foulis 1:25:01

to change. Everything's changed. But yeah. But yeah, it's all about that age restricted item and

making sure that the place that sent it was old enough. And the people that are received

receiving it are old enough to have it. I think that's where it really comes from and UPS or USPS

doesn't really, they just drop packages off and leave. They're not verifying anything. Right,

right. I mean, this is delicious. I'm trying to think about how to describe this old Ale, but yeah,

like, and I started this as a good example of making something and then it didn't turn out how

you wanted it. But it's not a dumper. Like he still drink it, just you might call it something

different. When you explain it to somebody did you say this is multi? That's what yeah, this

would be on the multi. So there's very little hops in the recipe. It's just the really the only hops

and there is the purpose to bitter it to counter that maltiness to balance. So there's no late

adaption knob so I'm not trying to get the smell of the hop in there. I'm not trying to get the

really the flavor of the hop. I just want that bitterness. Yeah, to counteract the multi quality, the

sweetness of the beer. Yeah, I mean, it's, again, delicious. They're all very delicious in their own

extremely unique way. I feel like it's pretty sweet. What did you think about the old ale? Like

what you said, Come talking to Mike come talking to me. Like fuzzier. You can. It's fizzy? Yeah.

Anything? Yeah. The maltiness I can taste them. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's it's delicious. We're

figuring out how to do this with four mics and five people. Okay, I want to try the oatmeal

Porter now. The prettiest? You do? Why do you think it's the prettiest? Yeah, this one is the

darker, darkest color.

Kim 1:26:48

Like Garnett?

P

K

K

Paul 1:26:50

Yeah, this is.

Lance Foulis 1:26:51

Is that a stone? It is? It is. It's so funny because like we're just doing these interesting pauses. I

just wonder what it would be like to be a listener?

Paul 1:26:59

Well, at times the reporters will have like a toastiness. And I think you still get that in the back

of your throat with this one. But the oatmeal really Mel's? Yeah, I think it is so is it out?

Lance Foulis 1:27:11

So if you really like That's amazing. Yeah. So really, I legitimately when we when we make this,

this last time I made it. I pulled the white by off brand. But the quick outs that I make my

daughter for breakfast, I weighed out a pound of that and throw it in my recipe. So I mean, it's

just like the rolled oats you buy at the grocery store. They call them quick outs. Yeah. So that

we have some in the front. Yeah. And so there's a pound of that, that gets added to the end of

this recipe. And the end game is the five gallons. Well, it's the that's the volume of the liquid at

the end. Yeah, at the end. Okay, that's, that's amazing. That's

Kim 1:27:52

and technically, you've made oatmeal bears in the past to kind of address the gluten free.

Paul 1:27:58

Yeah, I thought that they were gluten free, but they're not really Oh, there are

1:28:03

some like, was it so me

Kim 1:28:05

there was

Paul 1:28:08

I did use I forget what I use spelt. And I felt maybe that had something I can't remember. It's

P

P

K

P

K

P

I did use I forget what I use spelt. And I felt maybe that had something I can't remember. It's

been a while but I did make oatmeal beer. And they're actually really good. Yeah, wasn't the

point quite bare weight mirrors? Yeah.

Lance Foulis 1:28:23

Does anybody have a gluten free beer? Is that even possible? They have one there's the brand

name is called a mission. And they actually subtract the gluten through some sort of process

cheese. But there are bears that you can get are just naturally gluten free, but they will not

have barley in it. That's going to have grains like sorghum. I don't know if I've ever tried one.

Paul 1:28:46

You know, when I made my own beer, I think I added a little bit of wheat into it to get some

head retention and might be why it wasn't. Yeah, wheat is not. But it was very gluten reduced, I

think. Yeah. If you weren't like, if you didn't have

Lance Foulis 1:29:01

like a severe adverse reaction to gluten, it would be a better, better alternative.

Paul 1:29:07

We've actually talked about revisiting that because I started with a base and then one year I

made it with blueberry. And I was thinking about doing like an apple cinnamon version of it.

Apple Cinnamon, yeah. Without so I think it'd be really wow,

Kim 1:29:18

here for breakfast.

Lance Foulis 1:29:23

That's okay, so I hadn't you just said for breakfast, so I have to go but I have to go back to

something you guys had said. I mean, like there's so many things in my mind right now. But

there was a really good clip that I saw. I'm trying to remember i I probably won't be able to

remember the name. I got to look this up. There was a great clip of the Joe Rogan Paguera

podcast that I saw a while ago and his guests I don't I've never heard of the guests before, but

they were talking about this guy that stopped drinking caffeine like he took caffeine out of his

diet for three months and Then he went back and had a cup of coffee after that three months,

and he said that it was like a psychedelic type of experience. And then he took it. And then he

started talking about the history of coffee. And they even brought in like beer. What you guys

were talking about that, like, back in the day, all these people just drink more beer than water

because it was safer to drink the beer than it was the water. So like everybody was just walking

P

P

K

around with a buzz. And then he talked about, like, how people came up with how they came

up with the idea of a coffee break. And it made people more efficient at work. Anyway, yeah,

I'm looking this up right now.

Kim 1:30:41

And then Coca Cola just

Lance Foulis 1:30:45

destroyed. It's a Michael Polen P O L L. A N. What Michael Poland learned from quitting caffeine

for three months. You think he's exclusively on Spotify? So I've been meaning to go back and

like listen to the whole episode, because I don't know what all they were talking about. But

what they talked about in this 14 minute clip on YouTube was quitting caffeine. Anyway, yeah.

Back in the day, apparently, people used to drink more beer than water. Yeah. And again, it

comes down to like water quality that was available. And then you got like this for sort of like

temperance and prohibitions come along, is because then they started have figured out Oh, it's

the boiling process. And so he started making key teas and coffees, which was an alternative to

the beer, which was the water safe because it's been boiled. So then you have teetotallers,

which are anti beer people. And they they practice temperance, or like, well, beer has no place

anymore. It's completely we can just do away with it. Because now we can drink tea and

everything's safe. But then we're like, we don't want to stop drinking beer because it's good.

Because it's tasty. So but we're experiencing right now. It's really funny. Like these kinds of

little things that you learn about that. are neat little facts that you've never heard before. I'm

still trying to figure out how to describe this last one is oatmeal Porter. It like the other three? It

is delicious. It's very smooth.

Kim 1:32:10

It well, some characteristics is what doesn't it? Have? You've experienced the bitterness at the

back end of things that doesn't have this? No, no, right? You're just kind of getting more of that.

I don't know part of the tongue. Like it's not in the back of bitterness.

Lance Foulis 1:32:28

That's right. You taste things. Yeah. Different on different parts of your tongue. Different yams.

It tastes to me like a good winter beer. Yeah, like it feels like it. Yeah. Like a blanket. Yeah.

Good face to it. Yes. I like to. Not too much.

Paul 1:32:50

Yeah, he was actually afraid that he didn't get enough on this the other day.

Lance Foulis 1:32:54

K

K

P

Lance Foulis 1:32:54

Yeah. Actually, kind of yesterday I was I turned up because I have to. In order to get the beer

out of the keg, you have to displace air. So we in to get the beer fizzy. We add carbon dioxide

to it. So we have tanks of co2. Why are you adding it in the keg of beer? Yeah. And that's how

we get it fizzy. An alternative if you bottle part of the bottling process is adding just a little bit

more sugar, right as you're bottling it. And then after you get it all bottled the the yeast that's

still kind of hanging out, you get little you still have little tiny bits of yeast hanging out here

beer. And that little bit of yeast will eat that little bit of sugar and carbonate it and it's bottled

so it has nowhere to go. So it infuses into the solution or the beer. So that's how you get it's

called bottle conditioning beer. Actually Sierra Nevada, they still bottle and can condition

everything that's there. It's not forest carved. Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is whatever the Bessel it's

in, they add sugar or this called priming sugar, and then package it either in keg bottle or can

and then it has to sit for at least about a month or so three weeks. Oh, wow, for that kind of

kick in. And you have to have your math pretty much on if you add too much sugar, you have a

lot of cakes exploding, bottle shattering or you're under carved and it's not as fizzy. And that's

the fizziness as part of the experience of beer that will now not you know back in the day but

was really interesting thing about that is that they because of the branding of a big beer like

that is that you have to have every bottle consistence super consistent super spot on. Yeah, it's

kind of fun for you guys. Maybe if it doesn't turn out the exact way that you want it to because

we just discovered something. Have you ever had something not turn out the way that you

wanted it to? And we're able to figure out how it happened. Yeah, you could replicate it. Well,

we're talking about the Irish Red today. And I just I just called it an English ale because they

have fruity flavors and a more an Irish wooden. Yeah, so just easy as saying name. I think we

were talking about one.

Paul 1:35:03

We haven't done many beers, but there was one I made. Like, are they gonna talk about this?

This was a sour beer. And I don't, I still don't know what happened. It smelled like a sweat sock.

I guess really. And I brought it to some friends of mine who worked at a brewery. I'm like, Hey,

what the heck is wrong with this? Is it just like oxidized or what? And like, one of my friends it

was the brewer the time he's tasting he's like, Yeah, even though it smells really terrible. It

actually tastes

Kim 1:35:37

great. It just smelled weird. Yeah, it was fine. You did especially a sour.

Paul 1:35:46

That was the one beer that I definitely dumped. I did not drink. Yeah,

Dustin 1:35:50

one. But while I was thinking that one, the particular one I was thinking about was the Arizona

iced tea.

P

K

P

D

Paul 1:35:57

Oh, yeah, I made one. I tried to make a Shandy. And I just added a shandy is just juice or tea or

whatever. Just added tea to it. And it's just like it called it a sham. Just never was good.

Dustin 1:36:09

Good idea. But yeah, we took the beer that we were like near, like let's make it a Shandy.

Because a shandy is you take beer and you either add lemonade or a tea to it got it makes it a

Shandy. There's going to be a shandy now and we threw some Arizona iced tea in there and

called it a day. Oh, that's amazing. But

Paul 1:36:25

I remember a brewery after I had let them try that sour beer. They actually had a similar

problem. Not maybe as bad smelling as mine. But they just added fruit to it and served. Just

cover it up and just yeah, just kind of hide that smell. Yeah. All right.

Kim 1:36:44

And what make you sick, but the experience is strange. Yeah.

Dustin 1:36:47

And kind of continue on this sort of vein and conversation we you'd asked what IPA stands for?

Yeah. So the India Pale Ale. Yeah. And what it was, is it was like, the or the story I've heard is

that Britain was colonizing India at the time. And they were the soldiers and civilians living

there wanted beer. Yeah, they would have to ship it. And it's a pretty good boat ride. Yeah. And

so they were getting the beer and it got there. And they're like, this is terrible. And so they

some they kind of knew that hops have preservative qualities. If nothing else, if you put enough

hops in it, it'll cover up kind of the skanky taste. And so they started kind of adding a lot more

hops to the beer. Yeah. And it would be the India export beer. And then eventually just keeps

getting boiled down to was an India Pale Ale, and then it became an IPA. And then that's sort of

the story. I don't know how valid that is. But it's the that's the beer more that goes with an IPA.

Yes.

Kim 1:37:48

I love boiling. I'm sorry. It was it spoiling. Yeah.

1:37:51

Or I got a taste I think took the time to

P

D

P

K

D

K

Or I got a taste I think took the time to

Paul 1:37:54

grade. Like if you have a pale ale they tell you to drink it fresh.

Lance Foulis 1:37:59

And actually, yeah, a pale ale now you want to drink quick. Like it's, that's when you're going to

get all those great flake fruit flavors. If you let it hang out of that the hops diminishes, like Paul

said, it's sort of the more it sits, the less sort of character that that has. It's interesting, I'm

tasting something different in the Pale Ale now. Yeah, yeah. than what I did. And it's fun when

you like when you drink beer, it really like what you pair it with. If you're eating, there was a

pizza place that used to exist in Columbus, it's not there anymore. And they serve like

Columbia, or Chicago style deep dish. Mm hmm. And we get there one of their pizzas their

breadsticks or something. And we realize if we ordered a Budweiser when you drink it, you get

this crazy banana after flavor. Weird, and my wife notice it right off the bat. And she's like, does

this taste like a banana to you? And we're eating the same thing. And I took it. I was like, Yeah,

it's crazy. And I was like, it's probably because what we're eating is influencing, like, it's sort of

the whole the flavors are mixing together. And but yeah, she calls them I think we forget what

she called, like banana light, or something like that. She's like, let's go get pizza and some

banana. Like. I love that. Okay, so we are getting late in time. So I wanted to the last thing I

want to talk about is the the idea that you guys might create or, like, do something. Do you

guys want to talk about that?

Paul 1:39:27

Sure. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I went back to school for business not that long ago. Seems like

forever. It's only right. 2014 Was that like eight years? Yeah. Yeah. So I finished and I went to

business school with the idea of opening a business not knowing what it would be. Just, I didn't I

always wanted to own my dad owned his own business. It's a lifestyle. Yes, a lot of work. But I

you know, I always liked it and It first I thought maybe it would just be like taxes, don't people's

taxes or something. But as I kept doing the beer, I was like, you know, this is actually doable. I

mean, we know how to brew beer. It's not like crazy hard to do. And you know, a business

scale, you know, there is a lot of profit in it. So maybe we should check into like doing this. So

when he started brewing with me, well, when I finally got him to start brewing with me, I was

like, gave him this idea. And we just have been right on with it in our heads for a while we've

invested some money into it, and kind of brought him along to help us understand marketing,

because neither one of us are marketing. We can make beer, but we're not. Yeah, Mark. Right.

So yeah. So that's where we're at. I mean, we're still in the beginning stages of it. But we'd like

to see, I think we could do something with it. Sure.

Lance Foulis 1:40:51

I think initially, we when we kind of kicked around the idea. And it was, I think, like with most

ideas, you want to do it well, but you want to do it quick. Yeah. So like, well, let's open this

brewery. And we can do it this way. And then we realized that some of the ideas we had to

P

P

save money wasn't really a good idea in the long run. So that the time was kind of spread out.

But from when we initially started to now, but I think we've sort of and then COVID it of course,

yes. Like there are a number right now. Yeah. But there's been a handful in Congress that have

and they've opened, really, and they relied on the home delivery. And they really worked and

hustled I'm sure to make it move along. Yeah. And I'm sure they're getting the payback now, of

all that work. Now people can actually go to their tap room and try their beer right there in

person. I think we realized I think initially it was just we're going to be a microbrewery. And I

think at the time we started talking about it, there was only about 20 in Columbus. Really?

That's it? We're up to like 40. Yeah, this is over the course of like five years. Yeah. And so it's

just like, but now we realize that's not going to be enough. We need to stand out a little bit.

Yeah. So we're the the kind of the new approach to this business plan that we're kind of

heading, the direction we're heading is adding more of our personal personalities and our

backgrounds into it. Yeah. And we don't really want to like let the cat out of the bag. Yeah, but

also, we'll leave it at that. But we want to be a little bit more than just a microbrewery. But we

want to be more of an experience when you brewery so we'll leave it there. Yeah. I love that.

Anything to add Kim?

Kim 1:42:27

Yes. Yeah. I mean, so before, I mean, like the brewers are gonna think about the product most

of the time. Yeah, that's what they have their hands on. That's what they're passionate about.

It's their art. Yeah, it's their craft. So when it comes, but what we started to realize with some of

the travels that I kind of pre mentioned, oh, this is a heavy metal bar. Oh, this is grandma's

house. That was a really, I love that one.

Lance Foulis 1:42:52

That's the name of a microbe. Yeah, yeah, grandma's house.

Kim 1:42:55

And you felt like you're going into grandma's house. She saw the old, like vintage cups with the

cool little characters on it, like ET game, and you're like, This is

Paul 1:43:02

the jelly jars.

Kim 1:43:04

It was awesome. That's awesome. So they all have these like, characteristics. It was like

meeting a person. That's what a business should have. Yes, have a good product. But you also

should kind of get an idea of who made this thing. Yeah. It's not all product, even though that is

what's gonna keep people there and make them enjoy it. There's a lot more to keep the doors

of a brewery than just what you're selling. It does. I mean, that's what you're selling. But

K

K

P

K

there's more to it. Yeah. So the more that they kept talking about it, and I bought in right.

There backgrounds are really cool. Like, yeah, fine. Masters of Fine Art. Yeah. He was in a band.

You know, you know, I I'm a fine artist. You know, I'm a graphic artist. So yep. We there's a lot

of art and craft to this. Yeah. How do you and then you want to be a part of community? Yep.

So which community is that? Oh, the ones who were already a part of arts and crafts, you

know, like, yeah, so maybe I'm letting out a little bit. But this is our background of just the

creative. The creativity. I mean, that's, that's not letting out too much. I don't think this is

creative.

Lance Foulis 1:44:07

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love I love that. By the way. What did you play in the band? I play bass,

your bass player. That's cool. What type of music?

Paul 1:44:18

I'd say like, new wave. Aggressive rock. Yeah.

Kim 1:44:22

Okay, but not rush. Yet, but

Lance Foulis 1:44:24

not rush killers before killers.

Kim 1:44:25

I don't know how they were they were on to something.

Lance Foulis 1:44:30

That's awesome. Okay. Well, you guys, I could probably talk to you for the rest of the afternoon.

We're getting close to two hours here. I don't I didn't see anything I would particularly want to

cut out but I can't thank you enough. This was one of the most fun podcast we've done. The

beer is delicious. Thank you. Cool. I really hope that you guys get to do what you're aiming to

do. And I can't wait to see what comes of it. So thanks so much for coming on. I hope you guys

come back at some point and we can do this Again tha

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/lancelots-roundtable/donations

One Orphan is Too Many 101: With Doug Riggle

In this episode, we discuss the plight of orphans in our country and around the world. Listen in to hear about how some amazing people are addressing this issue.

Transcript:

Lance Foulis 0:48

Hello, everybody, welcome back to land slots roundtable we are picking up after the stop of holiday, we had a little bit of a hiatus during holiday. So this is our first recording of 2022. And we are really excited to have everybody listening again and to be back and to be recording. I was talking with one of my friends who's starting a podcast. The first guy on this season Jason spears, and he was talking about how he is really missing recording and I've been missing recording. I've been missing the podcast, he's actually recovering from COVID. So that's why you haven't heard his podcast yet. So we're excited for the launch of their podcast this this year, hopefully, within the next couple months. Anyway, I'm excited we have a very special guest today. Doug Riggle Doug is the founder and president of orphan World Relief as an adopted child. And later as a single parent who adopted from the foster care system. He understands the needs of kids from all angles.

On their website, one orphan is too many is a really great, quote. Orphan World Relief was founded in 2008, after Doug experienced firsthand the needs of homeless and orphaned children in Ukraine. Upon returning to the states, further research, shed light on the global crisis and the millions of orphaned and at risk children around the world. What started as an organization designed to help well run programs in other countries financially, has since blossomed into an organization that understands the needs of children in the US and around the globe. While helping educate people on the needs. These kids are dealing with every day, hashtag hope changes everything. I love that hashtag Doug, I saw it yesterday on the website for the first time. So Doug, welcome to the roundtable. Thank you, Lance. Great to be here. Yeah, I'm so glad that we were able to finally do this. I've been thinking about asking you, I think for the last year and a half. And it took me that long to ask you and to get you on. So yeah, let's just why don't you just tell us a little bit about yourself? Sure. So it was Doug. I have lived in central Ohio since 1987. Although I went to high school out in Roseburg and I went to stepped away for college in Texas and

Doug Riggle 3:09

been back here ever since. Which college did you go to? I don't think I knew that. University of Texas San Antonio. Okay. All right. Yeah, county. Why why San Antonio. So I Texas. When I was 17, I graduated high school. And my parents said, we're moving to Texas. You can't stay here by yourself. I had a scholarship to theater scholarship to theater and Otterbein. I didn't know that. And my parents said, You're not living here by yourself. We i i had it all worked out. I had a place to stay. I was and they're like, nope. And they just put their foot down. They put their foot down and I'm like, I'm still a 17. So So okay, so then you go to Texas who paid for your education? I did. You paid for your education. So when you had a scholarship, that's hilarious. Yeah. Well, to be honest, I paid never more than $500 a semester. Oh, wow. After I became a resident of Texas, is that like a Texas thing? It was it was it was back in 1983. When I started college, wow. Wow. Okay. Yeah. And that included books, and I was an English major. They didn't have a theater department at the time. So I'm like, Okay, what's next? I love reading. Let's do English.

I actually thought about English for a second, like majoring English for a second because, well, I didn't know anything when I went to college, like, pretty much about anything. But I was like, I want to be a writer. Like I wanted to write books. Yeah. And so I asked the people, I guess I started Columbus State, and they're like, Oh, you could do journalism, or you could major in English. And I thought about and I took a couple English classes and I'm like, I don't I don't know. It's just college. I have a lot of thoughts on college now being out of it for so long and going through it but it is hilarious to what we decide to major in and why exactly. And we're all just so different. So you majored in you majored in English English, four years, four years. 4.74

I'm sure to be sure I was six. I took three three times before I passed it. Really? It was so boring. I grew up. I mean, I went to school in Ohio. So I had Ohio History in high school. Yeah. And when I got to Texas, they require you to take Texas history. And of course, everyone around me had already taken it because they lived and yeah, I'm like, their their claim to fame is that they were their own country for about a year or so. Yeah. between Mexico and the United States. And then the only other thing I remember of the main board is the very first governor. His, his name was he was governor Hogg. His wife's name was ima. And I just thought that was hysterical. I'm no one else thought that was funny. But I did the Yankee from the north cell. That's, that's really funny. Did you ever develop an accent while you were there? No, actually, when growing up, we lived in different places. And my mom was from Appalachia. My dad really southern Ohio, when they adopted my adoptive parents. Yeah. And I had an accent when we moved from Nevada when my dad retired to Ohio. And I got teased so much in school, it took me a while I lost the accent. Okay, it comes back when I'm really, really tired. Or on the very, very massively rare occasion when I've had too much to drink.

It comes back out. Oh, really? Yes. So fascinating. How old were you when you were adopted? I was a month old. You were a month old. So infant? infant? Yep. Okay. All right. Then Then how did they like was it just through like, whatever agency or whatever they were stationed in Iowa, Waverly, Iowa at the time and zation, like military military, okay. And then they mom had had three miscarriages after my sister. And the doctor said no more. Yeah. Your body's telling. You can't have any children. So they adopted me when they were living in Iowa. Wow. Wow. And then they ended up in Ohio. So my dad's family's from Ohio. Got it. We lived in Iowa, Nevada. They were stationed in Washington state for a while where they had my sister. They were stationed in Mississippi for tech school.

Trying to think we're all saved. And Virginia. Mom's from so when dad would go he repaired radar. Okay, and so when he would go out and repair radar in Alaska, usually

we would go live with family members sometimes. Not in Alaska, not in Alaska. That way we didn't have to do or Alaska said no, because I've always wanted to see it. But I know back then. It's like no, no one went there. Right? Yeah. Yeah. It's it's an interesting place. I there's some people that I know that are in the military.

So we're walking down the hall and this one of his roommates came up there were three boys in this room came up. Hey, Richie, who's this guy? And he grabs me his little hands. He grabbed me by that by the pinky. This is my new pop.

Lance Foulis 0:17

Oh, I

Doug Riggle 0:18

like turning away. Trying not to like, burst out in tears. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he was smart. He knew what was going on. Yeah. Even though he

together Yeah. Wow. So this is my new pop. Yeah,

Kim Foulis 0:32

gosh, I'm not crying you're crying

Lance Foulis 7:43

I think he's, uh, yeah, he's career Air Force. And they've been all over the place. But they I don't know how many years they've been in Alaska. But the pictures that they'll post like a random moose. That there that's like going across the road. And then yeah, like, take a picture at two o'clock in the morning. It's still daytime out. Like, although, yeah, weird stuff like that. I would be hard to get used to daytime at 2am. Or kids would love it. Yeah, probably. Okay. So, English major, and then talk to us a little bit about? Well, let's just let's just talk about we're from the World Relief. Sure. Why you why you founded it, what the purpose of it is,

Doug Riggle 8:22

you know, back in 98, I took my first mission trip ever. And I remember, Pastor, my church, Chris asked us asked me if I wanted to go. And I've never been out of the country before. Well, I've been to Mexico, technically just over the border, into Canada over the border. But I'd never really been out of the US. And I thought about it, prayed about it and like, Okay, let's go. Okay. And so we went there. And it's funny, because just last night, I'm working on a book with a friend of mine, collaborator, Kevin Greg out in California. We just went through this section of the book last night for the like, second or third time.

So you're writing a book to Yes. Oh, we'll get into that. Okay, we can talk

about that. And we went over there and we spent a day there was a young man named Pasha and he worked with homeless boys in this little area in Kiev called Eternal Park, which is a little little island in the middle of the river, you get to by train. And we were there. We kick the you know, kick the ball around, I day played soccer. I kicked the ball. I have no sports ability whatsoever. No depth perception, no sports ability at all. So we ended up playing with these kids, just having a good time with them. They were all homeless kids. Pasha got $145 from an American couple a month that paid for his living expenses and allowed him to do outreach to these homeless boys. Wow. And I spent you know, we spent the day with him. I shared my testimony with them. Yeah, the next day, we were going to visit an orphanage north of town. Funny story where We were driving north of town and our driver URI had made a crack earlier about women drivers. So my interpreter refused to interpret anything. He said to me because she was mad at him. So I asked URI I said, you know, was able to get out in some basic Russian, Ukrainian, where's the orphanage? And he points straight ahead. I'm like, well, that's helpful. And I said, Good yet Chernobyl. I said, Where's Chernobyl? He points straight ahead. Then he's like, he's, I could see him like freeze the turns around in the seats. Like, we stay short time. I'm like, okay. So anyway, when he took you to the orphanage took us to the orphanage. Before we got there, we took a bus. And we had to meet you're in the north part of town. We took a bus and we actually walked under, spent about 20 minutes walking, to get there to meet Yuri to get the bus to go to the orphanage. Sorry, awkward story. We walked under a bridge and I could hear someone call my name. What I know. I'm like, I'm in the middle of Ukraine. And no one except for the people around me know who I am. Yeah. And then I'm like, Just hearing things. And then finally, I had this little voice, Douglas. I turned around, and the bridge we had just walked under. In the rafters of the bridge, were the boys that we had spent the day with the day before. No way. They slept under the bridge that night. Wow. And that was the moment God's like, you're not going to go back to the US and not do something about this. Wow, I'd already been thinking of adopting. And so this was during that same time frame. I'm like, Okay, I know, I know, I you know, I need to adopt, I plan on adopting. I was married before. I wanted to adopt my wife wanted to have our own natural kids. And so there was some conflict there. And I'm like, but uh, now I'm single. Yeah, like, I can't adopt, which, that changed. I changed my mind, which is like, a mindset that you have is mindset. Yeah, yeah. Cuz I knew it'd be hard because my best friend's Rick and Nancy had adopted three girls, and then fourth girl. Oh, that

was after they adopted theirs. Right. About the same time. Okay. All right.

And they were just in the process. And they were still probably in the honeymoon period. Yeah. I didn't have any warning signs telling me not. But it's still at, you know, I wouldn't trade it for the world. It's still the right thing to do and what I felt God calling me to do. But I also realized I needed to do something broader. Because growing up, I didn't know anyone adopted. I didn't know any orphans. I just thought I was the only one. Oh, really. And I had no clue that there were millions upon millions of kids in this world who are orphaned, abandoned, eating, you know, kids at risk, were right on the brink of being orphaned or abandoned. And so after that trip, I came back here, and I started to the United States and started researching and figuring out, oh, my gosh, 147 plus million kids orphaned, that they can count. How many 140 7 million

147 million kids globally? Yeah. In the United States

in foster care. There's about 400,000 kids at any one time.

Lance Foulis 13:12

Wow. That's not even I was surprised cuz I saw that on your website. And for some reason, in my head, it was a larger number. So to me, it's almost like, it's, I think I just had the thought like, oh, like, there could be a bigger impact, potentially. Right? Because there's not I thought it would be millions of kids in the foster care, but in the US 400,000. Well, if you

Doug Riggle 13:32

think about the kids in the foster care system, every year, about 20,000 of them aged out, got it. So every year there are 20,000 kids who are now without a family without any support structure, which is one of the programs that we're building right now. It's called foster to adult Yep, that we're getting off the ground to help some of these kids who, in some cases are falling through the cracks. So the Children's Services, county agency where we are at currently. I don't have the exact numbers. And you know, I would probably, like get sued if I say this out loud. But some of the things that they're doing is pulling kids out of foster care. And before they're 18, or reuniting them with their families, that they're out of the system. They're no longer counted as a number. And then they turn 18, though they're with a family that, you know, neglected or abused them before. And now they're back on their own again,

but like, is that going back into a good situation? Or no? Okay. Yeah. Yeah,

it's not, but it's a way to clear the books and save money. Oh, wow. And it's it's really, I'd love to find a good investigative reporter to kind of do some digging.

I would love it. If we had more investigative reporters these days. I

would love them. Yes. Anyone who's actually a reporter. Yeah, right. Yeah. And actual they don't exist anymore like they used to, right. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, definitely. Hey, somebody out there hearing this podcast.

Kim Foulis 15:00

Just heard you. Come talk to me.

Lance Foulis 15:03

Okay. So let's talk about let's, I mean, you mentioned a few things there. So let's talk about I'm, I'm kind of a little bit curious about your childhood. So let's maybe start there. Like, when did you figure out that you were adopting? Like, what does that even like, I was

Doug Riggle 15:17

in fifth grade, and my parents pulled me into the kitchen. And my dad paced back and forth, and like, I'm in trouble. What did I do wrong? It's like he can feel thank me get to get her over with now, whatever I did wrong. Mom would start to speak and she started crying. I'm like, oh, man, they're getting a divorce. But that doesn't happen. This is the 70s. It's like, yeah, all these thoughts going through a kid's mind. And then finally, the they came out with it. And I realized later in life, that was my dad pushing my mom. We need to tell Doug that he's adopted. Okay. Everyone else knew. Sure. So they figured it was your sister knew? Oh, yeah, she did. She was nine years old when they adopted me got it. So she had to know she was Yeah. I would get her in trouble later. And with mom and dad, Debbie said that I'm not her brother. Oh, she get in big trouble for saying that for saying that. Even if she said her. She didn't say I knew that could get her in trouble. So you had that lever. I have that lever over her. Okay. But yeah, so a fifth grade. And I was told I was adopted. I remember. They told me on a Sunday night, Monday morning, I went to school, and we were doing these little men Deleon genetic square things about eye color. Okay, and to figure out your mom has blue eyes. Your dad has brown eyes, what possible color accommodations? And I'm like, I don't want to feel this assignment. So I went up the teacher while we were like working on some of the stuff there. And I'm like, I'm adopted. I said, this, this may not work for me. I don't want to get a bad grade. So it's the cell teacher in front of the entire class. Hey, everyone, Doug's different than the rest of us. He's adopted. Come on. Oh, my gosh, yeah. I and I was a shy kid. And I just like wanted to crawl into a hole. Oh, my. And then lunchtime. I had kids asking me questions. You know, are you a bastard? I didn't know what the word meant. Why? Yeah. So I'm like, I'm like, No, I know what the word meant. I had to look it up when I got home, in fifth grade, eighth grade, and, you know, ask me questions about who my family were. And I'm like, you know, I didn't know. I had no information. They my parents told me when I turned 18, they would share with me about what they knew about my biological family. Interesting, which they didn't. They didn't know I snuck into their their room and broke into the little metal filing cabinet and got the information to myself when I was 19.

Oh, wow. Yeah. I mean, you will be more patient than I think. Yeah, then. So but when you're fifth grade, your parents tell you that Yeah. What does that like?

It? There was parts of it didn't like okay, some of this makes sense now. Oh, sure. I never knew my dad liked me much less loved me until I was out of college. Wow. Now I know now he does. He did you know, he's passed since. But growing up, I just always felt that there was a disconnect. Interesting part. Partly because I didn't understand His love language. Okay. His love language was giving me things and so, okay, I remember one time, I was probably 30 He had this hideous lamp. My dad went blind after like his second open heart surgery. He would go antique shopping with my mom and he, you know, spend money on things that you didn't need, but he had this lamp that was just absolutely hideous, but he loved it. And he wanted to give it to me and I didn't take it. And that hurt him. Oh, wow. Because I was rejecting His love is basically you know, I you know, I wish I'd you know know now what I knew then but sure her knew then what I know now, you know hindsight

Lance Foulis 18:53

toys. It is way easier. Yeah, they're nine site. Okay, so I can't I just can't imagine being in fifth grade and having a truth bomb dropped on you. And then being in the middle of a class and a teacher pulling a stunt like that. Yeah, that's awful. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's okay. That's just unreal. Alright, so back back to the timeline. 98. You come back, you're doing research. Tell me about how you were doing your research because this isn't 98 I think we had the internet right. But it wasn't anywhere like it is now.

Doug Riggle 19:22

No, you're part of it was talking to people and part of it. So I actually then started the adoption process myself to get certified to adopt. Because you can go through the entire class and process and not actually adopt. But sure, I'd like I want to learn more. And fortunate. I mean, I learned a lot about kids waiting kids in the US and in America. But it wasn't until talking with other people that I was connected with at church and other places that I learned about orphanages and what the needs were and I that second day in Ukraine, I'd actually visited a different orphanage. And so I got to see firsthand, a very well run orphanage. There's a story telling in the book about a little girl named Masha and her brother, who were when they were six and seven, it's right at the fall of communism in 91. It's that that weird perspective here in America, we're all cheering communism has fallen over there that it's 45% unemployment. So these parents are just making a decision. Do we watch our kids starve to death? Because we both lost our jobs? Or do we do something about it? So what they did is they taught their six year old daughter to become a prostitute. Oh my gosh, and they drank heavily. And this is the little girl in the orphanage with their brother. And then later on, you know, because they were drinking so much the money away. They sent their son out to work as a sex worker as well, who was seven years old. Geez, so the kids ran away. Fortunately, sadly, though, until live on the streets, all they knew had to do was sell their bodies. So you know, got these now at this point eight, nine year olds filling the bodies to strangers, horribly dangerous, obviously. And this is before we had this big understanding of child sex trafficking. They someone from the orphanage that they were at found them and brought them in. It took psychologist over a year's worth of work with a little girl just to teach her to have fun and play. Oh, wow. So I got to see the positive results of what a good program could do is orphanages get a horrible rap? Yes. I mean, orphanages were gone, probably in the set by the 70s in the United States as well. And we might move to a foster care system by enlarge. Okay, and so

it's never thought about that. We don't have orphanages in the States, we

probably threw the baby out with the bathwater, right? Because at least two orphanages is permanency. Yeah, I'm here. I'm not going from house to house to house. Yeah, I don't know if you know, by the time I adopted my son, I he from age five to age 13. When I got him, he was in about 15 different foster home placements. She's Yeah, that to me did as much damage to him as the reasons that he was taken from his biological frames again, with for sure. I mean, it's think about that. There's no permanency there. There's no, you know, you're in a new house one day, there are new rules, right? And your new relationship, your relationships, and these people are supposed to take care of you. Oh, there's some great foster parents out there. Yeah. But the ones who are like, Okay, we're going on vacation now come take these kids. And they put them into the place of like they're doing more harm. Right. And good,

right. So let's talk about a couple of programs or fun World Relief does. Sure. Let's talk about, well, you can talk about it in any order that you want.

So we started out to all of our programs to begin with for international and we came alongside programs that were well run, and wanted to provide financial support for them. Because they didn't have they were small, but they didn't have a lot of like us support. Yeah, so we want to be able to tell their story. At the same time. We came alongside some of them too, and help them become more self sufficient. God. So for example, in Honduras, Casa Garvey, we worked with them to help them set up a chicken and cattle farm,

Lance Foulis 23:17

an orphanage at the orphanage. Wow, so

Doug Riggle 23:19

that the kids can learn a trade. They are producing protein that's needed for everyone. Yeah, excess. So you've got beef, milk, chicken eggs, excess protein can be sold to community to make them more self sufficient. Wow. It's just an amazing program. Yeah, it's just fabulous. They're kind of like our hallmark of what a good program is. Because it's not just an insular little program, we send money to orphans. It's a program that involves the church, they have a block, the church works with block factories, everything becomes part of the organism that helps the kids there. There's also a nutrition center in Lemo nearby that helps kids and families with provide better nutrition to their kids,

Kim Foulis 24:03

which I've been to, by the way, when I was 15. That's the one that you went, I didn't know that. That's where I went. Tell us about picture downstairs. So I was 15. I was there for a week. And there was a group of people that were working building walls, but then there was a second, like, smaller group that was going to go over to the nutrition center. Okay, so I was like, Yeah, that's me. That's me. And I knew a little bit of span like enough to talk to little kids. And I mean, they just they cling to you, they surround you with all of this. I need love. I want love. But also, this is like my one meal a day. And I'm just you can tell they're they're so hungry for everything.

Doug Riggle 24:39

Everything. Yeah, yes,

Kim Foulis 24:41

it was phenomenal.

Doug Riggle 24:42

I've got some great pictures in the office of there's one of me and one kid on a teeter totter and like eight kids on the other side of the teeter totter. It's just a great like

you're doing the teeter totter with eight other kids. Yeah, that's hilarious. Yeah, it's it's a it's a great program there who came up with the idea for that program? Without you

No, no, no, no, that's that was also run by yovani. The guy who started the church, he started the orphanage. He was a doctor still as a doctor. So he went to work with HIV kids, the nutrition center came about. And it's all this big collaborative effort. They've got a Block Factory, they've got a sustainable tree farm. They have two tortilla factories in the city. They've got a row of houses that they work with women who have HIV. Wow. And the women so it make purses. Every time I go there, I buy a ton of purses and bring them back. They're really beautiful. And I'm like, these several like crazy here in America for a good amount. Yeah, we could get them to commoditize

a little bit more. But that's so that's such a good idea.

Oh, it's amazing. It's amazing.

Kim Foulis 25:42

It's hearing about the whole ecosystem. Yeah, it can build like and be sustainable. And yeah, you're

Doug Riggle 25:47

you're learning responsibility. And like you said, you're learning a trade. That's huge. Yeah,

there was a orphanage in North Africa. I really, I've been trying to find the information about it. I read about it back in like 2000. And they teach the kids to 10 the vineyards. And the adults produce wine and sell that and everything is becomes has become self sufficient. The kids then can go when they leave the orphanage, they want 10 Great finds that get 30 bucks an hour, right? I mean, that's a good skill to have. And yeah, yeah.

That's so awesome. So it started off as International. How long did it take you from 98? Till till like you were able to found orphan road relief.

2008. So a decade. Wow. So I needed to I mean, I had to put a lot thought behind it, figure out who I was going to serve on my initial board. Yeah, how I was going to structure things so that we were different than other organizations so we could differentiate ourselves. So people would want to donate to us. Yeah. So with our international programs, we don't just we don't do child sponsorships, which everyone to ask us to do. I'm like, the infrastructure to do it. Child sponsorship is outrageously expensive, okay. And there's nothing wrong with them that for the larger organizations, compassion, all of those, they're great. But you have to pay for someone to ship the items to the kids, right? Translate letters back and forth, and go take pictures. So you have current pictures of these kids. Every year. Yeah. And me, I'm

Lance Foulis 27:14

like, Okay, we can't afford that. Yeah, that's a lot of infrastructure.

Doug Riggle 27:17

It is a lot of infrastructure. So I jokingly refer to us as kind of like the Wholesale Club for orphans. I love that because it's, we deal in bulk. Yeah. And we want to have the maximum impact. So we have a spreadsheet. Right now we have like seven programs internationally that we support. Okay. Every time like once a quarter, we send out money to the programs. And we take, like, let's say we have $10,000 to send out, we I goes into a spreadsheet that factors in the number of kids being impacted the cost of living for that area of the world, and their annual budget. So we never give more than 20% of their annual budget because we'd never want anyone 100% dependent on us make sense. Because if we fail, they fail. We don't want ever want that to happen. And that happens quite a bit. Sure. But then they each get each quarter equal buying power. So like St. Petersburg, Russia is one of the more expensive places where the harbors located. And so they may actually get the bulk of the money, but they get the same buying power as the three programs that we support in Honduras, God and the same program we support in the Ukraine and Russia. Got it.

Okay. And then when you're when you're doing all of this, the decade before you're able to found it, what's your day job?

Let's see. So I was working at an insurance company here in Columbus, I left there in 2011, which is the the year we got our 501 C three status. We've been doing work before then for our nonprofit, but everything was retroactive, which was great. As far as donations. But I was at that time I was it human resources. Got it. Okay. And I was a communications expert there.

So figuring out how to start up a nonprofit was just on like a side gig. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. And they're like, there are different ways to set up a board. You can find people who are passionate about what you're passionate about, and can come alongside and support your vision, or people with deep pockets. Sure. Pardon me is like I should have chose the people with deep pockets. But I did. I picked you know, three people. Rick, Nancy, who were my best friends and my buddy Steve. They were the original three board members. He was my personal trainer for a while. Got it. They came alongside and supported everything that I did. And yeah, helped me make decisions as we grew. Now. We've got a board membership about 10 people. Wow, I'm in different parts of the US and in Honduras as well. Wow. So it's been an amazing growth since then.

Lance Foulis 29:51

Yeah, that's fantastic. And the impact that you've had is that there are the organizations had is probably quite 1000s of kids. Yeah, yeah. Overall over the years that wouldn't have, it wouldn't have been positively impacted without, yeah, it just kind of blows my mind that you, it's almost like it was just this process that was kind of like laid out, you go on a trip. And that basically is like, essentially plants a seed, and then eventually that seed over time. I mean, you obviously did work, you know, to come back and do all the research and learn. Yep, you adopted during that time. And so you're raising a kid during that time as well. And then you had the ability to, you know, launch this thing that's still going on now and is is grown. So.

Tell me about the book

Doug Riggle 30:46

that you're writing. So right now, Kevin, and I've been working on this for over a year is Kevin from California, half of California, Kevin, Greg, amazing, amazing guy. I've been so blessed. I found him through a company called Upwork. And I interviewed about seven people I've been asked to write this book by people off and on about, it's basically my life story. Sure. And how God has used things in my life to help push me forward and to learn to weather the storms of life. So the books called right now I'd rather be a buffalo. Interesting. So when a storm comes, cows will run along with the storm and just get drenched. Okay, Buffalo will run into the storm. So they get through it on the other side, fast. No way. And I'm like, That is a great way for the way I've been. God has been orchestrating my life. And I'm like, Okay, wow. So instead of like shying away from topic, so, you know, if we get to the topic of my son, later on, he committed suicide 14 years ago, the one I adopted, and I tell the story, over and over again. It was actually two weeks before Christmas. And at Christmas time, I remember sitting with my family, and everyone's walking on eggshells, and no one's talking about Richie and he had just passed. Wow, in my mind, like this is a natural. So I started telling stories. And I started Oh, you know, Richard, but I love this. I remember BB when, you know, his cousin's like, when you guys did this, and you got stuck on to seven, he didn't know where to get off and you drove on to 73 times. before? It's storytelling is so healing and you know, and I look at the Bible, the Bible is full of stories. And not not clean ones either. No, no. Life is messy.

Very messy. Yeah. Let's let's go ahead and talk about Richie. Yeah, you adopted 13. adopt him at 13. I knew Richie. Yeah.

He and your brother used to hang out quite a bit. Shall That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I've got great memories of them camping. We there's a storm came up during the one time we were camping. And I'm like, I got up and got out of the tent. I was sharing a tent. I think with Rick and my buddy James and I got my jeep because I couldn't sleep. So I'm laying there in the jeep and the storm comes up and then I look over and I see what used to be a tent is now Richie and Shawn flailing about. Trying to stay dry as Yeah, keep the tent up. Yep. During this whole time. Whose tent was that? I think it was your brother's.

Lance Foulis 33:18

Oh, geez. Hey, Shawn. Hey, Shawn. Hey, Shawn. So like, yeah, we grew up Sean and I grew up in our family, my brother and my dad, my two brothers and my dad. I got two older brothers, Todd and Sean. And then my dad, we always used to camp and there's something about the weather nodes when you're camping. Yeah, it was. I don't know how many times we set up tents in the rain. Just got absolutely. And like, to me looking back on that. If I had been the dad in that situation. I'd been like, Alright, we're done. We're leaving. Not my dad. It's like we're here. We're nice. We're camping. Camping. Yes. Whether whether the rain stops or not. Okay, so yeah. So you had you had Richie at age 13. Yep. Some reason I thought he was younger. Tell us tell us that story, finding Richie.

Doug Riggle 34:04

So, oddly enough, the year before I had been through the adoption process. And there was another young man named Jason from Ironton, Ohio that I was going to adopt, okay. And he was 17. I was kind of his last hope to have a family. And then I was taking him down, he would come up and spend the weekends with me. I was taking him down. It was getting close to him moving in with me. Uh huh. And he on the drive down. He's like, I gotta just need to tell you that. I don't want to be adopted. Hmm. And so I've started probing a little bit like, Okay, can you tell me more what you know? And he's like, it's not you. It's I just don't want to be adopted. And so I dropped him off as foster home, called the social worker right away. This is a Sunday evening and she called me right back. And so then she went and talked to him and she couldn't get anything out of him other than he didn't want to be adopted. Interesting. And he wanted to stay where he was at in Ironton, Ohio. And so I'm like, okay, heartbroken for one, investing a lot of time. And she's just like, just make a clean break. It's like, like, okay, that's easy to say it's hard to do, right? But I took her advice. She's a social worker, I took her advice, and I didn't have any contact with him. For a couple years, actually. He actually contacted me. After I'd adopted Richie went down to see him, come to find out. His girlfriend was pregnant. And he didn't want to leave her. Got it. So I'm like, okay, dude. Totally honor that. Yeah, I wish you had said something. I said, we could have figured something out. But same time, you know, respect your desire to stay there with your girlfriend. Yeah. But yeah, so then, then I'm like, okay, is this God's way of telling me don't adopt. And so I'm, like, go about life working. And I remember one day, I went upstairs to do something. I had this old house on campus to story. I go upstairs and I look over in the room, which was Jason's, which he would have had. And I saw my my dog, Max, I had a collie max at the time laying on the bed, where Jason was, and the only time Max ever laid on that bed was when Jason was there. And I just started bawling my eyes out. Oh, my gosh, I was like, in tears. Yeah. Like, I still want to be a father. Yeah. And I was still had plenty of time on my adoption, certification to go ahead and adopt. So I like, Okay, let me start this process again. Oh, wow.

So you put your you basically just put yourself back out there? Yeah, essentially. Yeah. So you go through the whole process. How long was that process with Jason? Would you say?

It was about seven months? Seven months? Get

Lance Foulis 36:43

to know him? Yeah. Thinking that. Okay. I'm going to adopt you. You're going to be my kid? Yeah. You have that in your brain? And then he's like, No. And then that's crushing. Yeah. And then now you're like, Okay, I'm gonna put myself out there again. That's one thing. I think I never realized that. Okay. So there's a couple observations, I think I can make anybody and everybody that I know that has adopted or thought about adopting, it's usually been something that's been in their, their mind that they want to do for a long, long, long time. Right. And then it is a long process. And you are really putting yourself out there. Yes. I know, people that thought they were going to adopt and it didn't, and it felt like death. Yes. Is that was similar to very similar? Unreal. Okay, so So, so you're, you're back. I'm gonna put myself out there again.

Doug Riggle 37:36

Yep. By this time, adopt us. website was up and running. And you could see kids available for adoption. So I was looking, I mean, I was paying attention to kids from quite a quite a few states away, because the adoption certification in Ohio was good for a couple of other states. Got it. But then I saw this little boy with big sticky out ears up in Cleveland, Ohio. And I contacted a social worker, she contacted me, we talked on the phone quite a bit. And so I'm like, she was being very hesitant. What I come to find out, like about a month later, is that he had been through a failed adoption to Oh, wow. So the family that were going to adopt him. This is horrible. They brought him into their home. And then they change their mind. And so that what they did, they lied. And they said that he sexually abused their daughter, what they admitted later on that they lied. But he was devastated. That horrible Yeah, was like, people, people don't realize what they do to kids. And it's just kidding. So they like, we need to make sure you're on the up and up, and we need to make sure this isn't going to fail. So we're gonna spend a lot of time talking to you, before we even let you get to meet him. Okay, which Fair enough? Yeah, I totally get her. They sent me. They sent me his paperwork. Oh my gosh, it took me a day to put the paperwork in because there's no structure ordered anything. Okay? This is when everything's physical paper, too. So I've gotten four binders, like three inch binders of paperwork that I first put in date order, so I could read his story from end to end and figure out, you know, there were duplicates. And I had to go through this and that and like, Oh my gosh. So I read his, his his file. Wow. And then I you know, I'm like, called camis. Social Worker opposite Hey, you know, let's, let's go forward with this. So then she had me come up and we had a meeting with two of his teachers. He was living in a residential home in Cleveland. He wasn't in foster care system anymore. But he was in the foster care system, but at a residential home, Cleveland Christian home, okay. And I go up there, meet with them and she's like, look, because of his background. Let's just, you know, you can come up every weekend. spend the weekend with him here. We'll say that you're here to mentor him. Mm, like, Okay, that's fair. And so like, I just like, I'm just being protective. I'm like, No, I totally get it. Yeah. So she brought him into this room and the three of us sat and talked for a little bit. And then we go to the gymnasium there at Cleveland Christian home, and we're playing horse or something. And again, it's sports related, and I'm lousy. So I lost. Even Kim, the little four foot two social worker beat me. But that's okay. And then she's like, let me give you the two of you a chance to talk. It's just like, hey, Richie. Why don't you take Doug to see your room? Like, okay, yeah, this is great. So we're walking down the hall. And this one of his roommates came up there were three boys in this room came up. Hey, Richie, who's this guy? And he grabs me his little hands. He grabbed me by that by the pinky. This is my new pop. Oh, I like turning away. Trying not to like burst out in tears. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he was smart. He knew what was going on. Yeah. Even though he

together. Yeah. Wow. So this is my new pop.

Kim Foulis 41:09

Yeah, gosh, I'm not crying.

Doug Riggle 41:12

Yeah. Wow. And so then, you know, a few months later. So the odd thing was I had already gotten my tickets and promised to go to Ukraine for a month. That next year, which is right around when the adoption when he was going to move in with me. So I had to, he had to stay there for an extra month at the at the Cleveland Christian home. While I was in Ukraine. And I remember, I got there like we need. They got a hold. It means that we need you to call the United States and talk to Richie, like, oh, while you're in Ukraine while I'm in Ukraine. Oh, wow. I don't remember how much that phone call cost. But it was. This is back before cell phones and everyone had lost Oh, yeah. So I called there I said what happened? His teacher, one of his teachers was so connected with him that she was she was acting out. Why do adults do this? She was acting out and she was pushing his buttons to get him to respond. So that maybe the adoption would fall through? And he'd say, yeah, and because he got so mad at her, he took a shoe off and hit her with it. I mean, throw it out her and beat her good. Social Worker got on the phone after I talked to Richie and calmed him down. Because I was I only been there a week. Yeah. Three more weeks ago. Yeah. Yeah. And she's like, I got the whole story. The teacher instigated that verse. He's not in any trouble. It's like, I just wanted you to talk to him. Yeah. Thank you. So yeah, we're good. And then my work was was lovely. They gave me a month off to go to Ukraine already worked that out the year before. Then I go, come back home. And Richie. The next weekend moves in with me. So I had went to work for a week and then I took six weeks off. Wow, for parental leave, man. Got to got all the way up till he started school. Was that

Lance Foulis 43:04

a company perk.

Doug Riggle 43:05

It was a company perk. Wow. So job six

weeks? Yeah. The first two companies I work. I think of all the work for both of these companies. But the first of both of them. They didn't have paternity leave until our youngest right?

Kim Foulis 43:17

Yes. You had no paternity leave until our third child. Yeah.

Doug Riggle 43:22

This was 1999 99. And I was on the y2k project. So Oh,

Lance Foulis 43:26

sure. Oh, my gosh. y2k. Yeah, I turned. I turned 18 and 99. So I was getting ready to go into college. But I remember the y2k thing. I think my dad bought a generator to be prepared. I think nice and nothing happened. I mean, thankfully, yeah, nothing happened. But that's, that's really funny. So Richie moves in with you. You get six weeks off. What was it like? Just tell us about that process of for both of you.

Doug Riggle 43:54

So you always go to the honeymoon period. Everything was great. He loved everything I made. The kid could eat like anything.

Lance Foulis 44:00

Oh my gosh, I forgot. Doug is an amazing cook. Oh, I know this. Like I'm amazing. I've heard many stories. When I was in college. You went and did something and you asked me to like, stay at your place and watch your dogs. I don't remember where you went. This was a long time ago while I was in design college or high school. I don't remember but yeah, you met you made Portuguese? Oh, yeah. I never had a Peruvian. You were like, you told me about it. And then you made Portuguese and that was one of the best meals I've ever had. It was so good.

Doug Riggle 44:30

Angie Volkman makes homemade Parag is really gonna say we trade at Christmas time. I give her tray of baklava she gives me back to frozen protein. Oh, that's adorable. They're amazing.

Lance Foulis 44:39

Do you make baklava? Yeah. Oh, bedsheets? I mean, wow. ridiculously good. So easy. Is it really? Oh, yeah.

Kim Foulis 44:47

It just sounds fancy. I guess

Doug Riggle 44:48

he says it's easy. He says I'd probably light myself on fire. So anyway, yeah, the honeymoon phase. You get a honeymoon phase. He likes everything you're cooking. Yeah.

And you know, we're doing great entered school. This is this is where the odd stuff comes in, like, because he came from so long in foster care of age five to 13. They put him in the most restrictive school in Columbus, which was he'd come home every day with stories of kids jumping out Windows running away. And, and so every day I'd go there, I'd walk him to his classroom. I go there, I pick him up from this classroom. Work was great. They're like, you can get off early to go do that. Wow. And

cuz yeah, this isn't when you can work from home. No, no, no, no, like it is now.

So this is like this third week there at the school and I kept pushing him like, he needs to be in a better school. This does not make sense. He's not a bad kid or an offender and everything. You're just going on the fact that he came from foster care. That's so terrible. It's not fair. And one of the teachers one day stopped me and said, Hey, you're Ritchie's father until I'm like, yeah. Like, he's not gonna be here much longer. I'm like, oh, good as you have one of the teachers. And he's like, No, he's like, but you're the only parent I've ever seen. Come in. Oh, wow. So all these kids are here without any family support. Oh, wow. And so I wasn't there much longer than he entered Middle School near our house on Indianola. Got it?

Lance Foulis 46:17

Got it on? Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's just it. It's an amazing, it's an amazing story. You you. I don't even think I knew you were adopted. Maybe I did. Maybe just out of my mind, but the fact that you were adopted, like your parents telling you when you're in fifth grade, dealing with that, and then the school thing happening, and then having it in the back of your mind, I'm going to adopt plus doing the orphanage thing. It's such a it's such an amazing story. Because I mean, Kim Kim said to me before that she could potentially adopt I've always been like, I don't see that which is almost like what like kind of like I said earlier, it's almost like everybody that I know, that's like, gonna adopt it's been in their mind since before. Like before college, I would say, and they're always like, Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna adopt. It's such, it's such an amazing, selfless thing to do. And it is really putting yourself out there. And the fact that you're choosing to give a person love unconditionally, and you don't know if they're gonna return that necessarily. It's just such a such a fascinating concept to me. So, I guess maybe I don't want to go. We're gonna make sure Okay, we're good. 15 Okay. Um, can you just just tell me like, and walk me through and the listeners through? the why behind adoption? I guess? What, what? Why for you? Why they why adoption for you?

Doug Riggle 47:54

You described it perfectly. It's the same way that God brings us into His family. Hmm, exact same way. Unconditional love towards someone who's may not be deserving. But because of who they are. Still needs that unconditional love. Wow. Just because they exist. Yeah. Every child deserves a family. Yeah. And I, my biggest complaint was so I've been going to different churches and speaking in different, you know, pastors conferences and talking to, you know, people from pastors from 3040 churches. And I've only ever had one church ever really step up to support what I do. Seriously? Yeah, it's the one I go to. Oh, wow. Yeah. And it's, it's heartbreaking because, to me, God's called us to care for widows and children. Yeah, you know, James 127. And we're not doing it as a church. Mm hmm. We're not stepping up to take kids in there. At this. This is where a not at the risk of sounding horrible. I love the fact that, especially in the church, people have big families. But if they had to make room for just one, one child, Mm hmm. If if one person and you know, single, I'll say person. In every church in America adopted from foster care, we'd wipe out the number of kids available for adoption in foster care overnight. Mm. One person from every one church in America the church. Yeah.

Kim Foulis 49:32

And then every family just one church. Yeah. All the churches in America. Yeah.

Lance Foulis 49:36

Melody said something like that on the podcast if Yeah, she said if one if there was one host family and every single church that they would wipe out, do you know her there that program? My village ministries, Melody mercial, we

Doug Riggle 49:48

partner with them? You do it? Yeah, they're actually going to do some training for our new foster to adopt program.

Lance Foulis 49:54

Okay. That's awesome. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's unbelievable. It's one Family from every church step up. And then the one thing that she had brought up in our podcast that I, I'm sure you'd agree with is the fact that if there was one family that did it, you would have all of the other families, hopefully, or a majority of the families there ready to support and help out? Absolutely. Tell us about that. Did you have support when you? Yeah, tell us what that was like.

Doug Riggle 50:22

So the one thing I always tell people when they adopt make sure you have a good support system underneath you. So obviously, I had built in support with Rick anansie. Yep, I was Uncle Doug to there. You know, 12345 kids, yeah, five, including Jordan. And I was the person so when they would go away, they needed respite care, the two of them. I go watch the kids for them for the weekend. Sometimes it'd be bringing my dogs and Richie in tow. And we have you know, that 15 passenger van to get us from place to place.

Kim Foulis 50:53

No

Doug Riggle 50:53

way who had that? They did they had that day. And that's right. Yeah. I forgot.

Yeah, it was huge. And it was a little terrifying to drive. I like driving small cars.

Yeah. It's basically the size of a living room. Yeah, no pressure. But,

you know, they were, you know, we were each other's support system through a lot of that. Yeah. My family as well. And I, by that time, I adopted Richie, I knew my biological mother and father and had a great relationship with them. So I would you know, he would go with me to Colorado. He went with me once to Iowa to visit my my biological dad, my dad put him on the back of his mule. He'd never been on an animal before in his life. And he's Wait, he

Lance Foulis 51:33

had a mule? Yeah.

Doug Riggle 51:34

Why on the farm?

Lance Foulis 51:35

Oh, on the farm? Yeah. Okay, nice. Yeah. So he got to ride on a mule throat on a mule? Yeah, not everybody can say that. That's true. Um, wow. Yeah. And then, I guess, the other thing, could you just talk about like, So my understanding is in order to foster care, and to adopt, you have to take classes or several classes. Right. Gonna take? How long is that process? Does it vary?

Doug Riggle 52:01

It varies by agency. So like, right now in Ohio, the state, county agencies have outsourced a lot of that work to smaller organizations that do you know, adoption and foster care. Which is, which is great. It's it, it spreads out the the availability of classes for people to come and take quite a bit. So it's not just one organization, when I took it, it was Franklin County Children's Services. I'd go downtown once a week and said two classes than the home study. And you know that and usually by the time you get to the home study, you've got I believe, this home study may be applicable for up to a year and a half. Okay, two years. Okay. To go through the final session for adoption? Or foster care, you know,

Lance Foulis 52:48

yeah. Yeah. And then people that are interested in learning more, what's the best way for somebody to learn more about adopting,

Doug Riggle 53:00

go to adopt us kids.org, I believe that's the website, I may be wrong. And they'll they'll walk you through us waiting kids, you can see pictures, I can't go there anymore. Because I it's just heartbreaking. Because when I was adopting before I got Richie, I'd be out there every week, and I'd see these kids and I've watched them over months grow up, you know, Oh, wow. Without homes without families. And it was just, you know, you see kids back from when I was, you know, going to adopt Jason, you know, then two years later, now, these kids are still there. And now they're two years older. And it's just, it's heartbreaking. Yeah,

Lance Foulis 53:36

absolutely. Absolutely. So I mean, that that's something you even bring up because I'm curious. You've been doing this for years, you've seen? Like, I don't, I don't have to know about kids that need to be adopted? I don't because if I don't want to I just can turn my head away. Right? You've been looking at it for years now. Yes. How has it? How have you? What do you call that when you you see somebody jaded? How have you not been? How are you not jaded by what you've seen?

Doug Riggle 54:10

I'm not jaded by the kids and their stories. I'm jaded by the response of adults. Mm hmm. And I might start with all this, you know, my parents didn't make the best decision waiting till I was in fifth grade. I wish they'd been telling me since I was born. Sure. Just make that part of the conversation. The kid you know, the the parents of Masha and her brother in Ukraine who taught their kids to be prostitutes. Of course they were in a situation either we watch our kids starve to death or become prostitutes. Hopefully, you know, this isn't I never have to make you just see the adults are the ones who ultimately make these decisions. Right. And they do it from not always the best perspective. It may be a financial perspective, it may be a practical in their mind perspective. It may be I like my comfort life. It's it's, you know, adopting isn't comfortable. Yeah. But that's why I come back to the church and say, you guys were adopted by God. Right? You didn't deserve it. Right. These kids do deserve to have a home. Yeah. And instead of having your fifth and sixth kid, how about bringing one in? Just one? Yeah. You know, I always like, if we can just do one. And that's it. I realized with orphan relief, I get requests internationally, weekly, that I have to say no to programs from as far away as Pakistan, Georgia, Soviet Georgia, all over the world, a lot in Africa. Number one, we don't have the resources to support them all. Sure. But it's just heartbreaking that, you know, there's not someone there to support them.

Right. Yeah, that you're getting you. So you're getting asked from different organizations all over the world for some help. Yeah. And and you have to say no, because, yeah.

Because I mean, we can end up giving 10 cents per orphanage that doesn't do anything, we want to make sure we're having the monetary impact as much monetary, monetary impact as possible to help them thrive and grow their programs. I did a what's the word? Blog Post 2016, on how to start an orphanage. And it's funny, because if you type that in, it's like, my LinkedIn article is like one of the first ones that pops up. It's gotten so many hits, which has been great. Yeah, but basically, I tell people don't come alongside the ones that exist, and and help them grow and mature. There are so many well meaning people out there, but they're gonna like, Oh, I'm just gonna fly to Africans to an orphanage. Hmm. Well, what's the culture? What are the restrictions there? Like Latin America, every five years, you basically have like your your workers, when in your orphanage, get a check for basically a year salary. Like on a five year period. Oh, wow. I that may have changed since then. But there are all these different things that you have to know. Yeah. And I'm like, instead of trying to do that, find an orphanage. That's a well run. well supported. come alongside them and help them grow and mature. Don't start something new. Yeah. New ones. We need great stable ones.

Lance Foulis 57:26

Yeah. So enhance the ones that are already Yeah. Yeah. How can people get involved with your organization if they want to?

Doug Riggle 57:37

Orphan world relief.org Just go out there. We're, we're building up a great staff. I just hired an amazing development manager. Oh, yeah. Who is that? Her name is Kim. And she's, you see her all the time. I do see her all the time.

Lance Foulis 57:52

Congratulations.

Kim Foulis 57:54

I am so very, super pumped about it.

Doug Riggle 57:56

Yeah, we were very excited to have you there. She's been

Lance Foulis 57:58

very, very excited. And I realized we

Doug Riggle 58:01

didn't even talk about our foster program. So we've got two of them are foster to adult which Mary Jo is getting off the ground. It's working with kids getting the mentorships, ages 16 to 25. And give them that support that they're missing. Because when they graduate from the foster care, they're on their own. Mm hmm. And they have no support system.

Can you talk about that? Because we hit on that at the beginning. But the whole concept of aging out aging out?

Huge problem in America. Because if you think about it, we take these kids away from their families, most 99.9% of time for very good reason. They've been abused, neglected, and say, we're going to take care of you now. But we take care of them until they're 18. And then we say, now you're done. Right now you're out on your own. I mean, I don't know if you remember, Amber who goes to our sister church awaken. She was 18. And her social worker picked her up. She wasn't no high school yet. Social Worker backed up said where do you want me to take you you're out of the system now? Wow. Fortunately, a friend of hers. Family, let her sleep on the couch and get finished high school herself through college. And now she runs a nonprofit organization.

Lance Foulis 59:08

Candle the candle? Yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. So so what you're describing it kid turns 18. Yeah. And they're done there. It could be December. It could be March, it could be whatever month. Yeah. And they they get taken out of a foster and then are just basically on their own. They're on

Doug Riggle 59:27

their own. There are some support systems available to them. Like Star House in Columbus does offer some sort of residential support. But there's financial literacy that these kids had not gotten right there. It

wasn't financially literate at age 80. You know, most kids aren't,

you know, all these things. But you had a support system,

Kim Foulis 59:47

right? Yeah. And that weren't on your own right.

Doug Riggle 59:49

i Yeah, I mean, I wasn't, I can't imagine me turning 18 And then like, All right, go be in a job

Kim Foulis 59:57

bank account. Save Yep.

Doug Riggle 1:00:00

So what happened? Like what? There has to be stats and stuff out there. So what typically happens?

Every year 20,000 kids aged out of foster care. And then what out of that some of them. So a good percentage of them will be homeless Chase or a period of time. A good percentage of them will turn to what's the word? Drugs, alcohol theft to survive? Yeah, understandably. Yeah. 80% of people in prison have one thing in common. They've been in foster care. 80% 80%. Yeah. And you think the other 20% are probably going to grow up without a family support system? Right, right. Oh, my gosh, that's not everyone, you know, in prison. Sure. But that's a staggering statistic. So if we can get involved in these kids lives between, hopefully age 16 and 25, and get them on the right path, we can then stem the tide of statistics, they're going to face them of being helpless. You agree? Yeah, having to resort to theft. You know,

Lance Foulis 1:01:11

I mean, that's just such a, it's, it's an interesting thing to think, when you do grow up. So I grew up with a really great support system, I grew up with a family, my parents didn't get divorced, you know, like, that is a very unique kind of situation where my parents are like, actually still together. My brothers and I got along for the most part, but at 18, I was not ready to be any kind of an adult, and to have somebody turn 18, and then just expect that they can go out and function in society is absolutely insane. Does anybody like I imagine that there's not necessarily like something in place where these, all of these kids would even know what's going to happen at age 18.

Doug Riggle 1:01:53

There are so the social workers tried to work with them as much as possible. A friend of mine, she and I worked together at an insurance company before she left Michigan, a social worker, she had eight kids that she knew were aging out. So she worked with them. That was her job to kind of come alongside them, work with them, try to get them as much support she could. So that they were prepared when they turned 18. There are some states in some areas pushing the age to 21. Try to help some of that. Sure. But again, if you don't do something, an intervention to help these kids get a support system in place. They're going to be 21. Still the same things.

Lance Foulis 1:02:28

Yeah. Exact same situation. Just three years later, right. Wow. Okay, so yeah. So you mentioned a couple different things that are from World Relief does what other things are you guys doing that people could come in and help with?

Doug Riggle 1:02:41

So our I think our favorite program that people love to get involved with is are my comfy kids broken? Comfy kids? Yep. So kids enter foster care all the time, what we do is a lot of times, they show up with the clothes on their back. And if they're a small child, that may just be a diaper. And they're now in a new home, that they don't know the rules or anything. Nothing is theirs. So we put together backpacks, age, gender appropriate backpacks, that provides a change of clothing, a nightlight, a book, coloring book, a blanket, a stuffed animal, even even the 17 year olds get a stuffed animal. Yeah, something that's theirs. Yeah. And allows them to have a sense of dignity. Instead of maybe a few things shoved in a trash bag. You right, yeah. Because a lot of times are taken from home so they don't have a suitcase or anything like that. shoved in a trash bag. And they are. Yeah, so we tried to provide them with a sense of dignity, and a little bit of hope. To ease that, that scary thing. I mean, think about if I were seven years old, taken from my family in the middle of the night, even though it may not be great. It's all I knew. And now I'm building my place on in a new family's home. Right? I don't know, the rules don't know anything, nothing is mine. All these things around me aren't mine. Right? And this gives them something that's theirs that they can take with them.

That's so that's so awesome. So people could donate,

they can donate Yeah, you can go to our website, and we have a list of approved donation items for there. And we've probably given out, we work with 12 Different social agencies around the state. Right now we have relationships with them. So they come to us and say, We think we're going to have you know, 25 kids, so we prepare 25 backpacks at different ages and give it to them God and then they they they're right there and they give them to the kid when they enter foster care.

You have to have heard some stories about the impact of those things.

There was one and I wish they sent us the picture but you know, we're not allowed to publish the pictures for privacy issues. The six kids sibling group got taken out of their home and they they got all six of them a backpack. Wow. It's just the these kids are like overjoyed that they've got something that's there. Yeah. Yeah, there was another story where a little boy He got taken out of his home, like on a weekday. The next day, the foster parent took him to school to register him because now he's in a new school, had his backpack with him the whole time, took it into school, got fell down and gotten horribly muddy have at recess, and was just so upset because I mean, he's scared. He's in a new school now he's, yeah, all these things are new around him. And they opened the backpack up, and it was a change of clothes. So he changed his clothes went right back to school. Like nothing had happened.

That's awesome that the class, so yeah, that's amazing. So people can find you. Did you? Did you pull up their website? Yeah, I got it. You can just say what it is. Or from or relief.org.org orphan world. relief.org You said that a while ago, I just couldn't remember. I didn't want to botch it. That's okay. Orphan world. relief.org. When your book come out,

I keep getting asked that question. We're like midway through our second review of it, then we're going to turn it over to some editors, okay, and then work with an either an agent or we might do self publishing again.

Kim Foulis 1:06:04

Again, is how many how many of you already done? Five? Five?

Doug Riggle 1:06:08

You've written five books? Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know that. i Good. Are they fiction nonfiction like

so the first one is a Bible study called your testimony. Okay. And then I wrote a book, a journal, I had a small business with a lovely lady named Shaundra. She I used to work together at a company and we formed her own business. Because we had all these people around us who didn't know what their passions were in life. We help them discover their passion in life. So we wrote a journal to kind of walk them through every week, every day thing they could do to learn about who they are and

basically unpack themselves Yeah, figure out wow,

yeah. And then there were a couple of books I wrote about just for fun. They're like not to be crude like a quick toilet seat read Yeah, yeah. So you can sit there and read read the whole thing. Random ish one and random ish to random is to is called Uncle Doug wisdom because I have all these kids who call me uncle Doug and yeah, it's just little little things in life random ish. One is all these things that I think, but never say out loud. like mashed potatoes and ketchup must never touch. Yeah, you know, I just put them all down there and just had fun with that. And then I have a collection of blog post about adoption that's out there as well.

Lance Foulis 1:07:20

Got it. But this is the one that would you say it was something buffalo is the title. I'd rather be a but I'd rather be a buffalo which is a great title. Yeah. It's to come out and maybe what we should do then is have you back on we'll do a little like Jocko podcast style book review. Awesome. Have you ever heard one of Jocko is no, the Jocko podcast so he's a retired Navy SEAL. And he has guys that have written books on any Hill read chunks of the book with the people. One book that he read that was he did what was called machete season. I think that's what it was called. Can you verify that? He wrote he read he read a book that a guy wrote after interviewing people that carried out the killings in Rwanda? Oh, well, it's it's a rough

Kim Foulis 1:08:11

I read it. It's machete season.

Lance Foulis 1:08:14

I had to I had to read it in chunks because it's, it's a it's a very hard read. And then he'll he'll bring on people that have written books about their time in Vietnam. He's had POWs on it'll have tons of military guys on, and he just does these book reviews. So yeah, we'll do something like that, where I'll read your book. And then with you questions, have you read chunks of your book? And then you can elaborate on it? Yeah, if you want, you got a

Doug Riggle 1:08:37

little taste to hurt here, because we already talked about a couple of the chapters that we're working on right now.

Lance Foulis 1:08:40

Which is great, right? That's so that you can go get it done quicker.

Doug Riggle 1:08:44

That's right. That's right. That's right.

Lance Foulis 1:08:46

I mean, we used to I've talked about potentially running but he's got a bunch of books. So what the one was, I think was the second podcast that we did was with Patrick Skelton where he he came on and talked about his book of his novel. Yeah, they wrote which is just crazy crazy that somebody says I'm gonna write a book and then they actually do it they because there's nobody that's like, you have to do this. It's a deadline. There's no like, boss, it's up to you. Right? It takes Yeah, self

Doug Riggle 1:09:10

discipline discipline. Yeah. Kevin, I meet twice a week in the evenings Tuesday and Friday nights and we've we've spent an entire year going through the first like whole review of it now we're going back through and adding some details some things Wow. Then we're going to get some people that we know to edit it and that's great. Then either we made self publish, which I've done that before Sure. Your testimony I did through Christian faith publishing God, but the other ones I just did self published because they were fun and just

because you could so that still impressive that you were able to carry that out. Yeah.

Kim Foulis 1:09:47

We'll get you a Kevin from somewhere.

Lance Foulis 1:09:50

There you go. Me? Yeah, get me I just need. I need a Kevin.

Doug Riggle 1:09:55

Kevin. Kevin. Greg. If you're out there. Everyone needs you.

Lance Foulis 1:09:57

Yes, way to go. Yeah. That's, that's amazing. So okay, so just to kind of start wrapping things up here. I learned so much during this episode. And I'm really glad that you came on. So thanks for coming on and telling bits and pieces of your story. Thank you. I really hope folks that are listening that you kind of take the bits that Doug was able to share and think about just that concept if one if one family or one person in every single church adopted that that would wipe out the foster care orphans situation, correct.

Doug Riggle 1:10:37

Okay. There's still be kids in foster care, but they're, they're not all available for adoption. Guy 110,000. At any one time are available for adoption. Wow, that's not that many. Right? That's, that's, yeah. Too many for one family. Yes, correct. But still not

Lance Foulis 1:10:54

all work together for most favourites. And then, and then I also just like the idea, and this is something I felt like I really learned when whichever, which, which podcast episode was that melody?

Kim Foulis 1:11:07

That was that was season one.

Lance Foulis 1:11:09

Right? Season One. I was just curious what, what it was. But anyway, one thing that she kind of, elaborated on, and I hadn't really thought about is the idea of, not everybody. Not everybody necessarily, is in a place where they could but everybody is in a place where they can do something, yes, you are able to take some sort of action.

Doug Riggle 1:11:31

If you can't adopt, you can foster if you can't Foster, you can volunteer, if you can't volunteer, you can give some a little bit of money. $5 a month, you know, if I had, you know, if five people gave $5 a month. And they told five people to give $5 a month and they told five people I mean, with just that little bit of five, five by five, we'd have hundreds of 1000s of dollars to work with and to be able to make massive impact.

Yeah, you can do without a Starbucks once a month. You can take that

5000 every month.

Lance Foulis 1:12:02

You can you can you can do without that $5 thing that you buy. Yes, you can you can do without that milkshake, or the fries or whatever, whatever it is then in I mean, I'm I'm talking to myself, as much as I'm talking. Episode Nine,

Kim Foulis 1:12:17

it's the community effect is what we call it, which is totally what it is.

Lance Foulis 1:12:21

And it's called My village ministries now correctly. Yeah. So they they did have a change. And I haven't been able to have her on to kind of talk through that yet. But we have talked and eventually we will get her back to talk about what they're doing. They're doing the same thing. I think it's just a different name. My village pastries. Yeah, so that's a great episode, you can go listen to that. It's a slightly different take. It's more the idea is kind of rescuing people upstream before necessarily somebody ends up in foster care. That's the whole idea behind what they do. But there is need, there are people in need and the stat that you had mentioned 80% of people in prison, were in foster care at one point in time. Imagine if, if that five bucks a month that you send, if that was to positively impact that statistic. Think of think about it that way. It's I think we have the ability to make we're so used to only thinking that it it has to be this big, elaborate thing like somebody has to I don't know quit their job and go do something like no like five bucks. That's not very much but the the relative impact positively that something like that can have an every single human being can do that you only have to be 18 Now to give five bucks a month. I got paid $7 a month to do a paper route with my brothers $7 a month. I could have afforded a few dollars, I guess.

Doug Riggle 1:13:52

We had a young girl last year she she organized at our high school a 5k. And really she raised $5,000 on her own for us. Wow. Just got her friends together. She did a t shirt. They had fun.

Lance Foulis 1:14:05

And she raised $5,000 for you. See, there's lots of little people out there young people out there that have that kind of have that kind of gumption. You haven't been you haven't been tossed about by the world yet. You still have some? I don't know fire in Yeah. So yeah, I mean, those are those are great stories. So anyway, I learned so much. So thanks so much, Doug for coming on. I want to give you an opportunity just to say any closing thoughts that you have any words of encouragement, any things that you just how, however you want to close out the episode, man, you just go ahead and

Doug Riggle 1:14:37

you know, it's as simple as this. I, like I said before, I used to help people figure out their passion in life. And I believe everyone. Everyone's got gifts. Everyone's got passions. Everyone's got a soapbox, and I don't expect everyone to be on the orphan soapbox. But if everyone took the time out of their month, to stand on their personal soapbox to make a difference Imagine how different this world would be right? We all took those things that really bother us and did one thing to make a difference about it each month. Yeah, we changed the world overnight.

Lance Foulis 1:15:09

You know, that's really great. That's a really great statement and everything that's so bad in our society is so in our face right now, if you take your face out of that and choose choose to put something positive out, that's something that's come up a lot this season in the podcast is like producing something. Yes.

Kim Foulis 1:15:30

Don't be too much of it. Don't consume anything out there that makes it better. That's definitely

Lance Foulis 1:15:34

not a quote from me. I don't remember who said that. Maybe it's, it's probably some famous person out there said something about that. But that's not a lance, or Lancelot quote. So but I mean, just the idea that you could make a small change and it could. Yeah, it could make a massive impact on this world. That's, I really, I really love how you put that. So thanks again, Doug, for coming on. Thank you. Were to having you back soon. Awesome. Thanks, everybody.

RESOURCE LINKS

Links to People and Companies We Mentioned in the Show

• Orphan World Relief
• Doug's Books
• Donate Hope

You can now listen to Lancelot's Roundtable on all your favorite listener sites.

Episode Length: 115 minutes

Thanks so much for tuning in. Join us again next week for another episode!

DOWNLOAD OPTIONS

• Direct Download: Right-click on the download area located in the player and click “Save As” for a direct download.
• Listen and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player for free!
• If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review so more people can find the podcast.

Follow and share Lancelot's Roundtable on Instagram.

“If we all took those things that really bother us and did one thing to make a difference about it each month, we'd changed the world overnight" Doug Riggle

Connect with us! leave us a comment, we love talking to and getting to know our listeners!

Follow and share Lancelot's Roundtable on Instagram.

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/lancelots-roundtable/donations

Creative Online Entrepreneurship 101: With Alex Markley

Episode 20 - Listen Now Link

How to start an online creative business with all the vast tech available in today’s world.

Chatting with Alex was so inspirational. We had so much fun hearing about the beginnings of Markley Bros. Entertainment.

In This Episode…Alex Markley 0:00 

I've, I've always had a sense that there were specific ingredients that would need to go into this dish. Yes. But without necessarily knowing what the final dish is gonna look or taste like. Yeah. You know, and so it always has revolved around. Number one, being able to connect with people through that shared experience of laughter Yes, being able to make people laugh, and through that disarming effective laughter to connect with people in a way that goes beyond what you can do in traditional media, yeah.

Lance Foulis 0:50 

Hello, everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of Lance lots Roundtable. I'm excited to bring on a good friend of mine, Alex Merkley. Alex, welcome to the roundtable. Hello, thank you want to take a minute and introduce yourself to the people?

Alex Markley 1:05 

Yeah. So you already said Alex Merkley established, it is established? Yes. So I, I am a online creator. I don't like saying YouTube channel person because you know, there's a whole thing about that, we'll probably get into Sure. But I like to make funny videos, put them online and make people laugh. That's something that I really enjoy doing. In a nutshell. Yes, in a nutshell. That is not what I do for my day job. Okay. Unfortunately, I'm not yet anyway. Yeah, yet anyway. Yes. Yeah, as a, you know, by by day, I am a, like a software and Solutions Architect. So I get to work on systems that need to talk to each other over networks and get stuff done for people. And a lot of times they're broken, and I have to talk through helping people fix them. So some problem solving all kinds of problems all at the top. I mean, if you have a computer and it's connected to another computer, that's like two problems right there. You haven't even started, right?

Lance Foulis 2:16 

Just two problems initially. Yeah. And it's gonna get wild. So yeah, so let's just talk let's just dive right in and talk about Markley Brothers Entertainment. How did you even when did you even have the idea to create web video content?

Alex Markley 2:32 

Well, initially, it wasn't going to be web video content. You know, this is this is a, you know, journey that started with me and my siblings playing with my dad's camcorder. Yep. And you know, really enjoying just making goofy stuff. And you know, if it was video recorder, or if it was a cassette recorder, we would just, you know, make make jokes and do goofy stuff. And enjoy that. I took a brief detour into designing video games and, and programming video games as a teenager. And then spent a bunch of time working on figuring out how to do the music for those video games. Okay, music and sound effects and all that fun stuff. And so that turned into basically, a whole a whole bunch of stuff that I wanted to put on the internet and share with people and at the time, there wasn't really a good platform for that. This is kind of pre pre YouTube days. Yes. Back in the days of antiquity. Yes. Back in back in the back in the stone age of the internet. Yes. So yeah, you know, a lot of just putting files up and saying telling people to go download them and then they couldn't because they didn't have the right driver. Like, have you installed Flash Player? Oh, God install real player.

Lance Foulis 4:04 

Oh my gosh, time or direct?

Alex Markley 4:06 

What is your direct media? Yeah, direct extract. Yep.

Lance Foulis 4:10 

So I mean, that just that does remind me of Richie. I think it would have been in the 90s When my parents got their first personal computer and like we had a chest game on there, where there was just like little animations of all the little characters they would get and then they would kill each other

Alex Markley 4:24 

under the like the little pinball pinball. Oh, yes. We need to see we need to wrap up this part of the conversation because it's making me sad. The nostalgia over real so this was a this was a dark time.

Lance Foulis 4:38 

So I want to talk about the cassette recording. So I'm picturing you with Okay, so like a cassette tape is pre CD. Oh, yeah.

Alex Markley 4:47 

Yeah. Well, we would we would have like the little you know, your little portable cassette player. Yes. That had like the microphone and so you could record and make silly voices and, you know,

Lance Foulis 4:58 

so like, was this a story originally? Were you writing jokes? Like, what? What was that content?

Alex Markley 5:03 

I mean, I wouldn't say that it really ever amounted to any content. It was just jokes, right? Like, I figured out a way to make like a really spooky voice. Okay, and turn it up super loud and then put it under my sister's bed. Right. And we had one of those remote control like, power switches. Okay, you could use for lights all over the house. Oh, that's cool. So we like, you know, wired it up so that I could remotely turn on spooky noises like under my sister's bed?

Lance Foulis 5:32 

Oh my gosh, that's amazing.

Alex Markley 5:33 

Not sure she's this Susie. Now this was Alice. Alice. Okay, I

Lance Foulis 5:37 

haven't met Alice.

Alex Markley 5:38 

She, she's probably still not forgiven.

Lance Foulis 5:42 

Hence why I haven't met Alice. So I want to talk now, because I don't think I knew this video games. I didn't know you designed video games?

Alex Markley 5:49 

Well, you know, it was a, it was an interesting, it was an interesting endeavor. You know, I had a couple of ideas for video games. And and actually, you know, I've always been more of a technologist than anything else. And I've been very fascinated by the intersection of technology and creativity and how technology can when used correctly, can really enable creativity that really, you know, you can you can make things happen that couldn't possibly be done otherwise. Yes. So, you know, I was really interested in interactive, you know, interactive media, and, you know, video games, stuff like that, like, these are the kinds of things that every kid wants to program. Yes. And true. You know, I think I was 13 when I actually like programmed my first video game. And it was a really simple like, maze game. So I don't want to, you know, over oversell it or anything, but

Lance Foulis 6:53 

you aren't doing any Bioware games or anything. No, no, no. Yeah. So I mean, that's what I've heard. So like, there was a friend of mine growing up, he went into computer science, I think, at OSU, and one of the classes that they were doing, had to do with like, designing something video game related. And so he was asking me, What kind of a video game should I build out? Probably because I was a nerd. But he, I was like, I think you should do chess. And then he's like, that's way too complicated, because there's way too many variables. So I can't do that. And then I was like, Well, you can't even like design a chess game. Like, what are your options even? And like, I didn't get like a full idea. So I was just curious, like, what like, Is this in DOS? Like, where is this environment that you're creating a video game?

Alex Markley 7:36 

Yeah, yeah. Um, so. So this was actually, you know, I took a very weird path, right? So you know, want to make that clear, like I was, I was homeschooled, and my dad was very deep into technology. So a lot of my directions were kind of like, either from him or self directed. So, so this wasn't like in a classroom setting. Right. Right. But what I did was I found a, like, an open source compiler for Gameboy for GameBoy Color. Got it? So I was just very interested in designing. You know, like, to me, the, you know, the Nintendo systems were kind of like, the, the pinnacle of, you know, gaming. You know, like, if you could, if you could make a Nintendo game, you were like, you made it, you know, because they were like, gatekeeping the entire experience, it was very difficult. Like, there was no such thing as, you know, like a homebrew Nintendo game. Right, right. So I didn't want to do like a DOS game or a Windows game, because I was like, No, I want to get the attention of Nintendo. Yes. You know, yes. So I was literally coding in C, and messing around with a Gameboy compiler. And so this isn't even on a PC. Well, the, you know, interface, the code is on on the PC. So, you know, designing code designing a little tiles, you know, but compiling it down into a binary that could literally run on GameBoy hardware.

Lance Foulis 9:17 

That's amazing. Did you get it to run on GameBoy hardware?

Alex Markley 9:20 

We Yes, we did. Yeah,

Lance Foulis 9:21 

we did. Who's Who's the Wii?

Alex Markley 9:23 

Well, my dad helped me with the the actual electronics because, you know, there's an interface you have to you have to go from you can't just have like, ones and zeros. You have to actually like burn it onto a chip, and then plug it in. Get it Get it going. But

Lance Foulis 9:38 

yeah, so like, you're actually like physically doing stuff to an actual Gameboy to get this to.

Alex Markley 9:43 

Oh, yeah, we bought a ton of Gameboy cartridges and it's like, tore them all apart.

Lance Foulis 9:48 

That's amazing. So like, Was your dad fairly self taught as well?

Alex Markley 9:52 

Yeah, I would say, you know, he's, he's kind of, kind of, in one of the earliest waves of Yeah, computer engineers and software. Yes. Software.

Lance Foulis 10:04 

Well, like you go back far enough. And there wasn't even like a major in a university. Oh, no, Peter stuff.

Alex Markley 10:10 

No, no. Yeah, this was Yeah. I mean, he was he was coming up when if you wanted, like, if you wanted a computer, you had to solder it together. Not kidding. That was not an exaggeration.

Lance Foulis 10:22 

Yeah, I think our first computer that was in the actual house was, I think it was called a Commodore computer. And I don't even think it worked. But it was an entire desk that was in our basement. It had, I don't know what the size of the floppy was. But it was like bigger than a writer's night. And that was a floppy disk that went into part of the desk, which was part of the computer. I think it was called a Commodore but I don't even think it turned on. And then they eventually got a PC. That would have been one of the earliest iterations of windows where it booted up into dos, and then you would go into Windows, or you do stuff in DOS. And then I think when I was in college is when personal computers started booting up into Windows, where, where Windows basically became the primary thing instead of DOS being like the main thing. And I don't know much about computers, and I'm not a very smart individual. But I think it's really fascinating that because, I mean, you're talking about being a 13 year old kid, and you're talking about like self teaching complicated matters, and technology. Why did you have motivation to do that? Would you say? Instead of really, anything else that a 13 year old could be doing, like riding a bike, or what a whole year olds get into?

Alex Markley 11:35 

Yeah, um, I, I've always had a very deep focus on whatever it is that's in front of me. And so when I, when I came to the conclusion that I really wanted to make a video game, there were there were a couple of things about that, you know, one was, I, I, if I, once I came to, once I came to understand that the tools were available, and that there was nothing stopping me from doing it. It was, you know, it was like, just a mind over matter, like my, you know, my ADD to discipline my will to get it done. Yeah, but the other thing too, was that, you know, I don't know where this came from, but in my earliest years, and I'm thinking like, 10 years, or even, you know, you know, eight 910 I really experienced a lot of like, a lot of anxiety and apprehension around not having, not knowing how to program the computer. Sure, like this idea that, you know, you know, my dad could do it. Yep. Right. And I wasn't exposed to other people's dads, but I figured, like, if I want to be like, Dad, when I grow up, I have to be able to do this. And then I couldn't really wrap my head around why that wasn't clicking for me. Yeah. And I was like, Man, I must be really stupid. And nobody ever told me that it was just like, this inference that I made, that if I was like, eight years old, and hadn't figured out how to program a computer yet, it just wasn't going to happen. Oh, man. So there was a lot of pressure.

Lance Foulis 13:27 

Yeah, seriously, cuz that's, I mean, that's no joke, like being able to program a computer. So like, what did you eventually do? Did you just get books out library? Did you just work with your dad?

Alex Markley 13:36 

There, there's a book there's a series of two books that are no longer in print. Sure. That I can, I can still remember, it was C++ for Dummies, volumes one and two are my Dan Gookin. And the current version of C++ for Dummies is a completely different book by a different author. And, and has no no relationship to the original, the original two books, but I basically made the decision that even if I didn't understand it, I was going to type in every example. Sure. and work through the entire book from front, you know, did these two books from front to back, and by the time I was done, I understood how programming worked. And did that take a long time to get through to as a side effect. I also learned how to type

Lance Foulis 14:31 

I learned how to type what was it Macy's typing or something basically, it was a computer program and you were driving a car? Oh yeah, I hated that successfully. I ate it up for some reason. And then and then once I learned how to kind of type bare necessities and I was like, I can write stories. Now. That's when I started writing. Cuz I tried writing as a kid. This is something we get to get into later, maybe like it's been brought up on other episodes, but I used to love to write because I create very creative So I would have things in my mind, imagine very imaginative type stories, I would write them down, started with a pen. And then after maybe 20 pages, I would realize, Oh, I got to edit this, which means I have to rewrite the whole page. And then that messes up every subsequent page. I think that kind of caused burnout. So once I had a computer in front of me word, Doc, and I could see how easy the editing was. I was like, Okay, so anyway, that's really funny that you didn't know how to type you get out these programming books, you're typing an exam, what I'm picturing is you opening C++ for Dummies, you see an example of code, and you type it in, is it enter? Or do you type a command run? Yeah, you'd

Alex Markley 15:36 

have to. So this was actually on on DOS, DOS, Borland C compiler, and you would have to compile your C program into an exe file. And then you could run it. And Windows XE. Oh, no, this was something else. Dos. Dos. eXe got it. Okay. Yeah. And so, you know, if you got it right, you could run it, otherwise, you would not.

Lance Foulis 16:01 

And but I mean, that's, that's something to talk about. I think there too, because back during that kind of a program, you didn't necessarily I don't think you were working with a program that would point out where your error was, it just wouldn't work. And then it's up to you,

Alex Markley 16:13 

while the compiler would try to tell you where it thought if it failed to compile. But if, and this is still the case, today, if you are writing a program, and it, it works, but it does the wrong thing, then you have to go on an adventure. That's really funny. Yeah. Because from the computer's perspective, it's doing what you asked. It's just not what you want.

Lance Foulis 16:38 

Yeah, and it's not gonna it's not sophisticated enough to tell you. So that's so crazy. Have you heard of, I got to look this up right now. Because I need to get this right. Have you heard of, I think it's 13 minutes to the moon podcast.

Alex Markley 16:54 

You heard of that? I don't think so.

Lance Foulis 16:57 

on it, on pulling it up here. 13 minutes to the moon, which was a BB C World Service podcasts. I don't remember how many episodes are in this thing. But it's all about how they got the guys to the moon. And they have so many different podcasts about how they developed the technology and the lady, the ladies that wrote the programs, right to basically, for the command module to actually land. So the program's behind getting this thing to land on the moon, and all the errors and issues that came up and everything. So like, it's just really fast, because what they were programming on I think was like cards. Like where you would type seven is like the cards and the cards go into the computer, just I mean, the super, super, super basic stuff. So but that's essentially what one of the main things that allowed us to have personal computers letters, because they work so hard to develop all this different technology. Oh, yeah. So what's always been fascinating to me about people that learn programming languages, I have one of my jobs at my current in my in the company that I work for right now, one of my jobs was doing data. It wasn't data mining, or anything like that, it would basically be like data targeting. So you have a group of people that you want to market to. So my job was to get in there write down specific programming code to go into our database. So it's like a database code. And the interesting thing about writing that kind of code is that everything's like color, color coded and everything. So if you don't type something correctly, it usually comes out in red. It's like you're not using the right thing here. But what you're describing right is not in this kind of environment where she typed something out, you think it might be right. And then again, you might have to go on adventure to find out what's not running correctly. Right.

Alex Markley 18:45 

Yeah, I mean, it would be the same if, let's say, I assume you're using like, SQL, like a SQL query, right? SQL and SAS? Yep. Yep. And if you've got a, you know, if you just mess up your join in a way that is syntactically correct, but doesn't make any sense, then you're either going to get not enough rows back or you're going to get

Lance Foulis 19:06 

way, way, way too many. And you might get an email, right? Somebody, your thing is still running and you are taking up, Dan wakley. We shut it down. Yes, stop. Yes. So that would be me trying to run something and then I'm running it. I'm like, this has taken a long time and then they'll shut it down. And then you get your no returns. And it's like, Okay, I'm getting my email soon. Oh, yes. Or your boss just gets the email or you both get the email. That's always fun. Oh, yeah. So anyway, that was really cool. So what happens next in your journey, like you're learning you basically self taught yourself different programming things? Did you keep going down that path? Did it change like kind of what came what came next?

Alex Markley 19:51 

Yeah, I think it's, it's a, it's a long story. So kind of kind of a kind of summarizing a little bit, you know, we, you know, I spent a lot of time chatting with friends and, and talking with people about trying to put together some, some kind of, you know, you know, media collaborative group of people who are, you know, using using their creative talents to, to do stuff and publish things online. You know, Napster was turning into a big thing at the time, okay. And I was completely completely captivated by the idea of basically just writing the middleman out of the media equation. And today, so like a record company being right, middleman, yes. And today, that doesn't even resonate with people because they've never even like, lived in a world where there are intermediaries who basically gatekeeper and decide whose stuff can be published and whose stuff cannot be published. But, um, but it was a very real concern and something that I was, you know, I was very captivated by and fascinated by the theoretical power of the Internet to connect creators directly to their audience. Yeah, you know, and it's the fruit of which we're enjoying now, but at the time, it was completely hypothetical, right? So, so Napster just completely blew the doors off of that at the level of individuals, realizing that the internet could be a place where they could go and get content. Yeah. Before that, it was like, why would you use the internet? What What would you use the internet for? Right, in terms of entertainment, because I've got my cable, and I've got my theater, and I've got my blockbuster. So what, you know, I got the library or Barnes and Noble, whatever. So why would I ever use the internet for content? Right? Anyway, so that was transformative, obviously, for the world, but also for, you know, teenage Alex, yeah, you're learning freaking out. I would basically be telling people, if, if they if they weren't walking fast enough, they'd hear about it from me. So it was kind of a problem. But anyway, so I just went on a tear. So I started publishing music. I, I co wrote a novel with a buddy of mine and started no that either Oh, it's, it's, um, what

Lance Foulis 22:30 

was the novel about?

Alex Markley 22:31 

I don't want to talk about it. Okay. That's fair. It's not in print anymore.

Lance Foulis 22:37 

It's one of those things as a young person that you create, and you think it's so dope when you're creating it. And then at some point, you realize not that's no good.

Alex Markley 22:46 

Well, it was there, there was that, but I've also really, I used to have, you know, when I was very young, I had, like, crippling perfectionist tendencies. And so it was very therapeutic for me to just be able to, like complete things. Yes. And so being able to complete a novel with, you know, 50 60,000 words. And it was, it was it was transformative for my creative journey. Even though I knew at the time that it wasn't like going to be a magnum opus or anything. It's just a thing that I completed. Yeah. And so I think, you know, for me, that's, that's one of the things that, you know, as I as I walk forward in my journey, and like, want to share those learnings with other people, especially like younger creatives, that's one of my go to things is like, you know, how do you do XYZ? And the answer is just, like, start just like start anything, you know?

Lance Foulis 23:47 

Well, I mean, honestly, that was the advice you gave me. One before I even did the podcast. Yeah. That's come up before in conversations on how this podcast got started. As you and Hannah came over, we were talking about different creative things. And I had mentioned because I think at the time, really all I had was the name Leo swats roundtable. And then you said something to the effect of in talking about your journey, the most important thing was just to start getting stuff out there. Absolutely not worry about it being perfect. Oh, yeah. Which is, which is huge. And so in my mind, as soon as we had that conversation, I was like, oh, yeah, I don't have to figure out everything about it. I just if I want to do a podcast, all I need to do is just get the equipment. I even pointed me in the direction of equipment. So I got my two little condenser mics, and I started inviting people and then that is literally how it got started. And here we are today. Yeah. Which is so

Unknown Speaker 24:36 

great, because I think before that he was a little bit like, Alright, maybe someday, but you lit this fire under us that was like, Oh, we just couldn't do it.

Alex Markley 24:46 

Yeah, I think that's so awesome. And I love I love that that's, you know, I love that that's the trajectory that you that you took and that it's been so successful, you know, because obviously here you are in your second season and then

Lance Foulis 25:01 

second season with new equipment, which again, you helped out with the new equipment indirectly. Because we were over at your house talking, I was like, I remember what I said to you, but you were because I was like, I kind of want to upgrade. I don't really know what to do. And I don't know anything about sound equipment. But you know, you know, all sorts of technology because all this self teaching that you've done, school of hard knocks, school of hard knocks,

Alex Markley 25:24 

I've blown up so many transformers, little. Although a little solid state electronics, we call it letting the magic smoke out.

Lance Foulis 25:33 

Yes. Yes, you do. Yeah. So but I mean, just to kind of finish that loop like you, you gave me a couple XLR cables, you gave me a mixer. And you were just like, tried to do this, this and this. And then I couldn't get it to work for whatever reason, on the on the on the iMac, I couldn't get it to work. But that started my research process like nice, that basically gave me the nudge. Because half the time if you don't know how, if you don't know anything about technology, really, you just need somebody to point you and get you in a good starting position. Because otherwise, you are just stuck spinning your wheels, and you never get anywhere. So then what happened. After I started doing all this research, I found out that two of my good friends are going to start their own podcast nice. And I will tell him about my journey, which again, that indirectly comes from you. So he goes and one of my friends, he goes and he tells me about this device, the road caster. And then I for some reason, none of my group, Google searchers, Google searches brought me across this device. But as soon as he told me about it, I went, I was like, that literally does everything that I wanted to do. And it's ease of use where I don't have to do duct taping anything nice. So they're they're actually recording their first episodes with basically the exact same equipment, they have nicer boom arms. But it's just, that's crazy that they got started. And they're actually we're our first two, our first two episodes of the season are those guys. So that's awesome. That's it's kind of crazy, because I mean, that's one of the things that we talked about initially is just like, encouraging creatives to get out there. And that's actually been like kind of a main theme of this season is, is just talking about the creative process in that there isn't a ton of incentive just out there directly for somebody who's creative. And really, if you want to start producing something, as a creative, it does really come down to your own motivations. So I think that would be a good thing for you to maybe talk to people about is just as a creative, you have an idea whether it's writing a novel, whether it's learning technology, whether it's learning how to paint, learning how to draw whatever that creative thing could be pottery, how do you generally encourage people just stop sitting in thinking? Because you can actually start moving? Maybe go into that whatever sparks your mind

Alex Markley 27:43 

there? Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that from for me, I have kind of two two answers to that, you know, in, in my way of thinking, when I have a, when I have a creative idea that I want to pursue, part of my thinking process is just really realizing that if I don't do the work, and make it, then it will never exist. And, you know, I think that there are people out there for whom their primary motivation is mass market success. And if that's what you want, then that motivation isn't going to be very compelling, because basically, mass market success means that you're making the same thing that everyone else is making. It's good point. But and I'm not saying that you have to, like, sit on your hands until you come up with some like, crazy, unique idea. But, you know, I believe that God made us unique, that he made us to image himself in a way that includes reflecting his creativity into creation. And so if you have an idea, and you are unique, then you will be, you know, producing something that's unique in the world. And so if you don't do the work, then it's not gonna exist. Yeah. Right. And that'll be one less expression of creativity, you know, that you leave behind when you when you go so that's part of it is just really recognizing that you know, I have ideas that I want to see realized, you know, honestly, just for the pure creative satisfaction of it, but then in addition to that, I think you really do have to be a little bit crazy in that you really love the process, right? You just really love rolling up your sleeves and, and putting your hands into the clay, you know, using some kind of tortured metaphor there but really getting your hands dirty with the creative work. Yeah, because if you You don't, then you'll get, you'll get discouraged right away. Because it is it is a lot of work to actually, you know, put something out there. And I guess the only other thing that comes to mind on that is to like, if you have your idea for something unique that you want to put out into the world is this huge magnum opus, you got to carve it up into smaller pieces. And, or just work up to it, you know, you you're not going to tackle everything all at once, because you need to have something that you can show for your efforts on a regular basis. Otherwise, again, like no amount of really enjoying the technology or really enjoying the brushwork or really enjoying, like, whatever it is that you've set your hands to, is going to carry you through a really long season of not having anything to show for your effort.

Lance Foulis 30:51 

That's a really, that's a really good point, it is having something starting small, I mean, like I even think about, you know, gardening, that's like another side hobby that we've kind of taken up here and there. But when we started, we started with a very easy plant that doesn't die easy. It grows easy without having a touch at garlic. And so there was something about putting in the ground that was really fun, but then seeing it come up and then come to full. I don't know what you call that full fruit or whatever, grow, grow the whole way. And then pulling it out of the ground and physically seeing that done. The level of motivation that that brings to dig in and learn Oh, yeah, was huge. So I think that that's a that's a really, really good point.

Alex Markley 31:37 

Yeah, success is contagious. Right. It breeds, you know, success breeds success within ourselves, but it also it also has a community effect. Mm hmm. You know, and I see this all the time with my customers. I see it all the time with you know, people that I that I know like when people are excited about something that they've done. It's it's contagious.

Lance Foulis 31:59 

Yes, it does. Absolutely spread so let's get into a little bit more specifically. Markley Brothers Entertainment. Yes. Stuff that you like, where are you at now? Where can people find you? Let's just start getting into that. Go

Alex Markley 32:12 

go for the full plug. Here. Plug in that just plug Markley bros entertainment. Yeah, so I guess, you know, I used to say that we were a YouTube channel. And I say, you know, I say that. Just to clarify, you know, I'm, I'm looking for more than a YouTube channel now, where we are a group of independent filmmakers here in Columbus, Ohio. Yep. And we make, we make funny videos, and we make entertainment, to post online for people to enjoy, and to build community around. So, you know, I believe that when people are laughing, that it's disarming, yes. And that it gives you an opportunity to connect beyond a surface level. So So we've had, we've had a lot of success with that. I'm not going to say that it's, you know, blowing up or anything like that. But I think we're, I think we're moving in the right direction with with what we're doing.

Lance Foulis 33:20 

Yeah, absolutely. So people can find you by on YouTube just searching Merkley Brothers Entertainment.

Alex Markley 33:26 

Yep. So we actually, we do have our own website. And so you can kind of start at the website level. Okay. And that is MB e.tv. Which, you know, you might imagine starts the stands for Marclay bros, entertainment, aha, television.

Lance Foulis 33:44 

We'll have the link for that in the description, so you can find it. But that was pretty easy to remember, I would say,

Alex Markley 33:49 

awesome. You'd be shocked how few people get in on the first. And I think it's just another of my long history of coming up with really bad domain names that are just impossible for people. But, you know, we were also on the various social media platforms and you can usually order usually around

Lance Foulis 34:09 

yeah, we we follow you guys on, on Instagram, on on both the roundtable, Instagram in my personal Instagram. And like, the, the videos are funny. I mean, that's one thing to like, I think point out is like, go to YouTube, subscribe to it, obviously. And look at I mean, lots of the videos aren't even, like super long. But they're funny. So they're like, Thank you there. It's like, sit down, watch it, enjoy it. And I mean, how much how much content would you even say is on your YouTube channel at this point? Because you've been doing this for how many years?

Alex Markley 34:38 

Yeah. So we've had more than one go at it. Right. You know, and and there's a whole I think entrepreneurial conversation to around basically like, how to how to, like fail at business one on one, you know, yes. Whenever you're ready for that one. We can have that conversation. Yes. But you know, So I've been carrying forward a lot of content from multiple generations of you know, pre Mark liberals entertainment, including our podcast, which was really the the original Malik's minute show. We have over 200 episodes of that. We have a sketch comedy show called bucking sailboat.

Lance Foulis 35:25 

Okay, carrying forward Malik's minute. Sorry for the cut there, guys. We had a technical issue. It happens. Does it

Alex Markley 35:31 

happens so often? Yeah, so carrying forward content on on the site. So right now we have the classic Malik's minute podcast, which was over 200 episodes of, you know, silly voices and comedy situations and crazy adventures and just all kinds of fun stuff. Bucking sailboat, which is a sketch comedy that we that we did for really, for me to try to figure out how to do video because video is really hard. And yes, if for a long time, yes. And and then, you know, we started doing we actually launched a couple of shows, very recently, we launched the we launched a surreal news satire comedy show called Ohio Ville nine nightly news, which is, which I do I do plan on doing more of, but it's it's very, it's very sporadic right now.

Lance Foulis 36:37 

Sure. And that was actually one of my favorites. Oh, I really liked the new stuff. I don't know if it reminds me of SNL or something. But there's just something about that. That was really funny.

Alex Markley 36:46 

It's it kind of, I mean, what I was hoping to hear is that it reminds you of a nightmare, because that's really you wake up in the twilight zone. And so so then danger couch, which is a completely unscripted, it's our only unscripted show. Yep. And it's it's really just intended to be a way to have fun on camera and connect with folks on a weekly basis. So we're, we have not missed a week. We're actually coming up on our one year anniversary. We have a Wow, very special episode planned for that. One. lations. Wow,

Lance Foulis 37:24 

you have a date?

Alex Markley 37:25 

December 13,

Lance Foulis 37:26 

December 13. So you'll have something that'll be released on December 13.

Alex Markley 37:29 

That is, that is the plan, the plan. That is the plan that hopefully should be awarded. Correct? Yeah. Yes.

Lance Foulis 37:36 

Okay. That's and that one's a fun one. Because you have lots of different guests.

Alex Markley 37:39 

Yeah, that's rotating really members. Yeah, it's a really easy way to just bring bring people in and, you know, I kind of envision it as as being very crowd participatory, both in terms of you know, suggestions and, and just shout outs, but also bringing people on if they're willing to travel, we will put them up on the danger couch, yes. To accept the danger. Yes, the danger is if you are willing to if you are willing to embrace the danger. That's amazing.

Lance Foulis 38:11 

So tell us a little bit about the operation who's involved in making this content come to life?

Alex Markley 38:18 

Yeah, so. So it is very much a family endeavor. We have myself and my wife, we put a ton a ton a ton of hours and effort into it. My sister and her husband, this is Susie Andrew. So you'll see you'll see them on on danger couch all the time. Gave my brother Gabriel is really involved. And of course, his wife supports as well. And, and we were always working on this. I mean, every every few weeks, at a minimum, we get together for filming. We're doing you know, we'll pretty regularly do like writers meetings and so forth. We have a ridiculous elaborate technical setup to allow my my, my sister Suzie to do video editing from her house. And it's like networked to my video editing at my house. So we were able to, you know, collaborate on video editing. And she's, you know, I'm probably putting in about 40 hours a week. She's putting in like, 10 to 20 hours a week. And, and yeah, it's,

Lance Foulis 39:35 

I think one of the things that blows my mind about all of that is the fact that you have learned over time, I mean, going from just audio to audio and video to effects in the video, right. So like, for me, the learning curve for this was fairly, it wasn't super steep, but there was a learning curve involved. Sure. And so like, was was Your progression? Did it feel like more natural? Did you? Were you really like, Okay, at this point I want to add video? Or did you? Did you always have like an end goal in mind? Or was it more of a natural organic progression? Adding things in?

Alex Markley 40:14 

Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. So to some context like that those visual effects that I just showed you some samples, they were awesome. Thank you, which is gonna be new stuff, right? New stuff. If all goes well coming out later this year, yes. If all goes not well, then hopefully coming out before I die. So, yes, I've I've always had a vision to make sci fi comedy. And I remember, one of my, you know, one of my earliest memories is, is, you know, riding around in the car with my dad. And just thinking about, like, all the Doctor Who that we were watching, because we were watching a lot of Doctor Who I just want you to know.

Lance Foulis 41:06 

So let's go to the time frame of Doctor Who because I know sci fi geeks that know a lot more about your doctor who than I do? Yes. So when when it what is the era of Doctor Who we're talking

Alex Markley 41:17 

about? We're talking about? We're talking about the Tom Baker years. Okay. Okay, so this was content that was made in the 70s and 80s. Okay, and anything newer than that is trash. And you can find me so, yes, I realize I just insulted so many people. I don't get on a regular equal opportunity. It happens that's fair. It does. Okay, so but you know, I was like five right? And yeah, like thinking about all this all this doctor who we were watching and I remember distinctly like asking him like, Hey, Dad, can I use your camcorder to make a Doctor Who episode and I was like, and he and he was just like, side eyeing me. Yeah. Number one, the camcorders really expensive? And number two, can you? Because I think the answer might be no, yeah. So um, yeah. You know, and my sort of my world was saturated with, you know, British sci fi and Star Trek. And Douglas Adams, you know, I don't know that reference. Douglas Adams. Oh, Hitchhiker's Guide. Got a galaxy. Dirk Gently. Holistic Detective Agency. Okay? The long, long, dark teatime of the soul. Oh, my

Lance Foulis 42:41 

gosh, like, I haven't heard of the last thing. She said. I

Alex Markley 42:45 

don't think good stuff.

Lance Foulis 42:46 

So like, so you're talking about your inspiration at this?

Alex Markley 42:48 

Yeah, yeah. Well, in my head, you know, I had very specific ideas of what I what I wanted to make. And, and actually, this is a rabbit trail, which we really can't get go down. But I at one point in my teens, I gathered together a cohort of folks, and we tried to make a 45 minute miniseries that was like full sci fi CGI green screen everything.

Lance Foulis 43:15 

Wait, how old? Are you here? 1717. Okay,

Alex Markley 43:19 

I spent so much money and, and, and we burned through like three weeks of everyone's time, and then I could not get it done. Wow. This is one of the areas where, you know, you learn when you when you're really like advocating strongly for people to carve out like manageable chunks of something. That that there's there's some scars there. Yes. Like really failing to accomplish something that, you know, so that that advice comes from a place of of like, you know, school of hard knocks man? Yes. So, you know, there's always been that that trajectory, that goal. Yeah. But to go back to your question directly. Like it's never been a natural. It's never been a natural. It's been incremental. Right. And when you're talking about creatively trying to accomplish something, the the jump from nothing to anything is going to be really hard. Yes. Right. Yes. And that's why so many people basically will get old waiting for their moment. Yeah. But you can build on the, on the learnings of earlier success, and incrementally do more. Yes, but every single time it's the same scary jump. Yeah, you know, every single time it's the same scary jump and so that you you have to be prepared. Not only to really roll up your sleeves and do a lot of like really hard work. There's, there's no like, I don't think that there's an increment that feels natural or easy. I've, at least I've never seen it. So. So it's just getting accustomed to and getting used to the idea of like walking up to the edge of a scary cliff and like diving every time.

Lance Foulis 45:21 

But in order to figure out what's off and what needs to be corrected, I feel like you have to kind of be ready to stare into a bit of a scary abyss. I love the way that you phrase that, because that's a lot right along the lines with Cheryl soundbite there, which hopefully everybody heard. But yeah, every time that you need to do that incremental increase, it is walking up to the face of a cliff. Yes. Staring over and getting ready to jump. Yeah, I

Alex Markley 45:48 

don't care who you are spending like five $6,000 On camera equipment is scary. Yes. Right. Like or whatever it is.

Lance Foulis 45:55 

Especially when you have a family. Yeah. Right decision your kids got.

Alex Markley 46:01 

I mean, they're not gonna eat the lens. Hopefully. Yeah, so it's, it's tricky. It's tricky.

Lance Foulis 46:10 

Yeah. So I mean, one of the one of the things that fascinates me, Well, there's several things that fascinate me about what you've got going on. But the fact like so is this the person that commitment for us to do this is really just Kim and I, and then the kids. They're downstairs, but they're happy. They're just watching a show for an hour while we can max watching a show, so we can set them up. None of our kids nap anymore. We started last year anymore wrapped as possible. And like all of our kids just decide to stop napping. I felt like kind of early. But anyway, that's that's another bunny trail. We don't need to go down. We're not sad about it. No, I'm not. I think it's kind of a pain, like if they nap because then you have to like, put them through every day. But now they're more autonomous. Anyway, that's good talk. So what I'm what I was getting at is the thing that fascinates me is that you have these people involved, that are putting in a significant amount of time and effort to help make it happen. So this vision that you have is dependent on these other people. Right. So can you just talk through a little bit about why you have other people involved?

Alex Markley 47:16 

Yeah. Well, and to be clear, you know, we are talking about a whole community effort, right, because the grandparents are very involved in helping with the kids. We all have kids. Yes, in this group that that I that I mentioned,

Lance Foulis 47:31 

talking about compounding the problems that need to be solved multiple kids, multiple families.

Alex Markley 47:35 

Oh, yeah, absolutely. So you know, but I think there was a pastor that I that I knew that I that I served under, at the rock in Cleveland. His name's Mike Hopkins. And I remember being in a really dark place where I felt like I had to give up the Markley bros entertainment vision, Oh, wow. Because I wanted to be a family man. And there was this stark sense in which I felt that if I that I couldn't do both that if I was going to be making these, you know, quote, unquote, like financially risky decisions, or if I was going to be living an entrepreneurial lifestyle, that I couldn't also honor God's vision for husband and father. Mm hmm. And it really was this man, Mike Hopkins. He he's, he was married. He at the time had, I think four or five boys, they ended up with five boys and then adopting a girl as well. Oh, wow. But he was also a he was also involved in CO pastoring the church and owned his own business. And, you know, we do all you know, just all of this stuff, you know, community involvement, like serving Wow. And so now, I think that, you know, some people just don't need to sleep. And so there's, there's, like a thing going on there. But I was, it was transformative for me to realize, like, there's no reason. I think our society has so many buffers built in that people have come to depend on that, that are not intrinsic to the human condition. God did not make us necessarily to get 40 hours in and then you know, be done. Yeah. Right. And so this idea that I could with, with careful planning, and and really Just being willing to kind of spend some of my youth and like burn it to the ground. I could work a 40 hour a week job. Yeah, what do you you know, and I worked for a pretty aggressive employer. So sometimes I have to put in more than that. And, and then put in another 40. For a business that is not earning its keep Yes. And also be a be a husband to my wife and a father to my three boys. It's it's not impossible. Yeah. And are there weeks where I don't, don't like do as well on, you know, one or all of those things. Absolutely. Like, that doesn't work every week. But on balance, God has been very good to us in that we've been able to keep the ball rolling. And, and it was really that, that going back to that revelation, you know, seeing other godly men do that, that that kind of transformed my vision of what it would take to own and run my own business.

Lance Foulis 51:12 

Yeah, I want to talk about that in a second, too. Can you talk a little bit about spousal buy in? So Hannah, was she Oh, your wife? Was she always bought into this?

Alex Markley 51:26 

Oh, man, I should have her on the podcast for you? Certainly not. She she was she was very reserved about the idea. And, and I really did I mean, my, my journey with God is is a whole nother conversation. Right? Because, you know, that's it's been obviously a lifelong journey. But I'm at the point where, where we really, Hannah and I got to know each other and, and got married, I was in ministry, and I had given up on Mark Libras. So the mark Libras entertainment vision was, I felt like I had to give it up. Oh, because because God had me totally, you know, I had I had been called into the ministry out of my tech career got it. And, and it really was a, I think it's, I always kind of thought of it like a, like a, like the sacrifice of Isaac kind of situation, which, you know, is maybe a little bit pretentious to say but at least for me, it was like, I felt that God was asking me if he or Markley bros entertainment was more important, like, which, which one, which one was more important. And so it really wasn't until a few years into marriage, that the the, the desire to go back to that really started to be reawakens. Yeah. And Hannah and I really had to work through what that would even, you know, because it was probably jarring for her. Yeah. In many respects. And, and she really had this idea of, you know, you work eight hours, and then you come home and you have every evening with your family. And you have every weekend with your family. Yeah. And it wasn't until we really started talking about the vision of, you know, the community aspects to it, and the gospel Centricity of the mark libros entertainment vision that she started. I mean, I think really what ended up happening was she she probably started to acquiesce to the idea of investing some of these some of this time and some of this energy based on how important it was to me. Yeah, but it wasn't until we started to see, you know, she started to get it started to click for her. And the narrative started to gel for her. Yeah, that she fell in love with Division two. And I think at this point, she would articulate that she that it's her vision as well.

Lance Foulis 54:20 

Oh, yeah. You know, which has been I think one of the Wilder parts to me is how invested she is right in it. And there's complete cohesion between the two of you, when you talk about the vision, when you're talking about those conversations in the hard conversations of working through it. And was the vision fully formed at that point, or was it still coming together?

Alex Markley 54:43 

So you know, I've always I've always really tried to hold with an open hands like the details, like the nitty gritty of of what things would look like, I think, based on the assumption that that God is Is, is leading in how he has gifted me and the passions that he's that he's put in my heart. I've, I've always had a sense that there were specific ingredients that would need to go into this dish, yes. But without necessarily knowing what the final dish is gonna look or taste like. Yeah, you know. And so it always has revolved around. Number one, being able to connect with people through that shared experience of laughter Yes, being able to make people laugh. And through that disarming effective laughter to connect with people in a way that goes beyond what you can do in traditional media. Yeah. And moving past that to enable people with technology and tools and coaching, that creatives who maybe would not be able to accomplish, yeah, what they, what their vision is, or what they, you know, maybe they could accomplish way more, if they had just a little bit of of encouragement, or a little bit of a push in and believing that you would get more of a reflection of the Creator into creation, if people felt more empowered to do it. Yeah. So there's a divine obligation in there. Yeah. And then, and then, you know, beyond that, just to have the, the Gospel opportunities associated with connecting with individuals who are in the audience who may be hurting, yeah. Or connecting with creatives, who may be, you know, learning to express themselves and, and finding great enablement and empowerment in the opportunity to create but don't have a relationship with Jesus and a firm foundation for what it is that they're, you know, what, what it is that their life is about? Yeah, we're even just having employees and having folks who I'm working with and seeing on a day to day basis, who are, you know, whatever, whatever their role is, those those folks, you know, if God gives us that opportunity, they might not know Jesus. And so there are gospel opportunities associated with all of those things. So those are kind of the ingredients. That's great. That's great. No luck, like, though, yeah,

Lance Foulis 57:46 

yeah, yeah, you don't really know what the outcome is gonna look like. But that's really, that's really cool. Can you talk a little bit about your guys's venture into because I mean, you you've done some things, and taking some risks. It's gear my scare me to death. So let's talk about you are married, you have children, you quit your day job. And you start doing this do full time. Congress through just some whatever you want to say about Yeah, it's wild to me. Well, to be clear,

Alex Markley 58:21 

this has not happened yet. Right? This is a completely hypothetical situation. Well,

Lance Foulis 58:25 

I thought you guys did that. I thought that happened in the past? Well, so.

Alex Markley 58:28 

Uh, we had, there have been a couple of times where we've taken some, some pretty, you know, pretty, pretty significant leaps of faith in my, in the context of my career, yes. Okay. You know, so the first one, and Hannah and I were really not in a relationship yet, but I left my career to go on staff at the church. And, and that was a, that was a big leap of faith, but it was also, it also really conditioned me to trust and believe that God would would take care of us, you know, even if I didn't know where the grocery money was gonna come from necessarily. You know, it was it was a very instructive and, and formative experience. Yeah. Since then, you know, I, there have been a couple of times where we talked about making a big investment. I think the one that you you were kind of alluding to before was taking out like a like a $30,000 loan and, and getting a lease on a on a warehouse. Yes. You know, and, and, in the context of Mark Lee Mark Lee Bros. Entertainment, I really wanted to like build a studio in that space. Right. But my primary plan was to do like cryptocurrency mining. God, ah, and so I built a pretty large rig in there. And I don't want to name names, but one of your previous podcast guests actually helped me with some of the electrical wiring.

Lance Foulis 1:00:21 

Oh, really? Yeah, to dieting.

Alex Markley 1:00:25 

You know, we did not set I we did not set ourselves or the equipment or the building on fire. So it was a lot of fun. You know, but yeah, like, the bottom fell out on that. Like, there's the, at the time. There was a there was a pretty steep decrease in the profitability of of that and it was it put us in the red long enough that that we had to bail? Mm hmm. You know, and it took a couple of years to really pay off that debt. Mm hmm. To get us back to, you know, being debt free? Yeah. Um, yeah. You know, but, you know, that was it was a big risk. And in some regards, you could say like, it didn't pan out, because operationally, like, these different sources of income, they all dried up. And we never got to the point from like building the studio that we could generate revenue from that. Yeah. And so you could you could call the whole thing a failure. But again, it was instructive. Yes. You know, learn a lot and particularly learn how to bounce back from Yeah, a pretty pig. Tell us about your mental state throughout

Lance Foulis 1:01:40 

that.

Alex Markley 1:01:41 

Oh, I mean, yeah, there were some there were some times where it was, it was tricky. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I don't know if there was ever a point where I struggled to know what the next right thing to do was okay. And that was something that I learned from my father in law, who is actually also a pastor. He, you know, he always, he, he's, he always says, Just do the next right thing, whatever it is that you, you know, when you're, you're you're dealing with a really difficult time and a storm, you know, you've got to put one foot in front of the other, just do the next right thing. Yeah. So whether it was, for example, you know, this lease that we couldn't pay, going to the owner of the warehouse, and just saying, look, like, I am very sorry, I have nothing. Yeah. And I can, you know, I can pay you, like, the next month, right now that you can use to, you know, get the place ready, and you can put it on the market now. Or you can come after me, but you're gonna get nothing because I have nothing. You know, just working through it with him on the phone, you know, talking through it and get in literally, like, I'm not gonna recommend that people sign a lease if they don't know. But, you know, just Asian, just like on just being honest. And yeah, and being willing to pay for my mistakes as much as possible and, like, work stuff out with people having hard conversations, staying up late and working on stuff when I needed sleep. Yeah, but needed to get something. Dunmore. Yeah, that stuff, you know,

Lance Foulis 1:03:39 

I mean, your journey is so fascinating. Because I mean, I knew this about you a while ago, but the fact that you were homeschooled all the way through. I was too. But you are so motivated to learn so many different things fascinates me. And I don't think we brought this up. But I think it's worth mentioning, you did not go to college.

Alex Markley 1:03:56 

So I was at Ohio State University for one year, one year, burned through a lot of money. Yes. As you do, as one does. Yes. And I learned chiefly that I hated the experience. Yes. I did not want to continue it.

Lance Foulis 1:04:11 

Tell me Tell me about that. Because I have lots of opinions on this. Now. I didn't use to have, but I want to know like, what, what was the experience like for you?

Alex Markley 1:04:23 

Yeah, I mean, and what

Lance Foulis 1:04:25 

ultimately got you to the decision that this is, this is not for me. Yeah. But also that this is generally not good. If that's fair.

Alex Markley 1:04:32 

Yeah. No, I I think there are a lot of things that I can share from my life experience that I think are replicatable and that people can apply and that I'm happy to like help people with Yeah, Mike, my college misadventures have are not in that category. Right. There's a lot of there's a lot about my experience that is is unique to my situation, then I don't think people will necessarily be able to replicate? Sure, no, the main thing was number one that I had, you know, effectively, I had the opportunity to apprentice with my dad in his efforts. You know, for a company that he co founded, I had the opportunity to spend a lot of time working there. I learned a ton from him in the technology and in, in programming field. So then, by the time I, by the time I was going into college, I already had a, a full time, salaried position, got it with a with a local company. And, you know, so I went to college, because that's what people were indicating you had to do. Yeah. Not my parents, they didn't really push me on that. But there were other folks who kind of indicated to me, Well, of course, you need to, you need to have a degree. Yeah. And it seemed, you know, like, the thing you do, so I went, I went in there, and I'll tell you, like, for me, I, I had so much trouble connecting the dots between what it was I was being asked to do. And anything that I cared about. Yeah. And so right. So, you know, if you're, for me, one of the things I you know, I mentioned this before, being motivated to do a thing, right is, is really a strong incentive to do the work to learn how to do the thing. Yes. And to until to perfect that capability. And that's been, that's been my continuous learning journey through through my whole life has been to just force myself into situations where if I don't know how to do the thing, then I'm, I'm gonna fail at something that I care about. So that I have to, I have to do it. And, and college was just not one of those things that I cared about. And I was on the verge of failing. So I was just like, this is this is a very expensive, nothing. So

Lance Foulis 1:07:16 

I just left is a very expensive learning with no benefit. Yeah.

Alex Markley 1:07:20 

Like I found myself actually it was, it was kind of the way I articulated it to my professors at the time that the ones that I actually cared about, was like, I'm not in class, because I'm meeting with a patent and trademark attorney, and I'm starting my own company, and I just don't care about this anymore. Yeah. And they were like, then go,

Lance Foulis 1:07:42 

then the answer is the answer. Did you even picked a major or anything like

Alex Markley 1:07:49 

that, and I had been accepted into the computer science program. Sure. Um, and I tested out of the prerequisites, like, we're so excited to have you and I was like, but am I excited? Again, it's not a replicatable situation, right? Yeah, sounds just so pretentious. But but it was, it was a very, is a very unique situation that not only had I received so much, quote, unquote, job training from my father. Right. Which, which I, which I fully recognize is a an incredible blessing. A lot of folks don't have Sure. But also I was in a field that was uniquely merit based. Sure. Right. And, and software engineering has always been based on you know, people are making money with technologies that are that are too new to be taught in school, right most of the time. So, if you are not able to demonstrate continuous learning, then you will not succeed. Yeah, you know, and you if you are, if you come out of college, fully equipped with all of the technologies that they teach you in college, then you are not marketable. Right? So, you know, it's, it's, it's tricky. You have to, you have to approach it as learning how to continuously learn. Yeah, otherwise, you're, you're not gonna do well,

Lance Foulis 1:09:23 

you're not going to succeed. That's really good. So let's just take some time here. What I can't see the clock over there. So I don't know what we're at. pastime. Oh, okay. So cut it all down. Cut it all out. Yes, because I've been doing episodes too long, but I could talk I could talk with you forever. So go ahead and just kind of tell people basically, I just kind of want you to get some time here to just kind of tell people whatever you want to tell them in terms of what's coming from Marclay, bro. Yeah. Taemin and then I would like you to give I think, I think You've already kind of gotten into this. But I would like you to just mentally distill down as much as you can, in a short period of time, how you would just encourage somebody that's in, that has any kind of a similar background to you that younger person and how they can. Because the self learning that you have given yourself is so key. And it's not something that's taught or encouraged right now. But I remember being young, so much of your story, I remember being young and being like, I remember being like, I want to learn how to do a computer, but I didn't have anybody to show me anything about computers. But I was fascinated by him. And then I was really interested in like doing creative things. But I didn't have anybody show me how to draw. Because I really want to draw with my writing stuff that I was doing. So I mean, just like even just thinking about, okay, you have an idea of what you want to do in how you would encourage somebody that maybe they don't know where to really stick their feet and start, you've kind of gotten into that. And I think you've provided a lot of stuff during the whole episode, but maybe just kind of summarize and bring all that to a point. So first, what's coming up from Berkeley Brothers Entertainment, where people can look forward to and then your thoughts.

Alex Markley 1:11:14 

Yeah, so Markley bros entertainment, we have a number of shows that are being worked on right now. There are shows coming out the episodes coming out weekly. So there's content that you can consume. We have some big stuff, including, we're planning to do a live event in December, that will be interactive and involve prizes and all that stuff. I don't know when this episode is going to come out. But

Lance Foulis 1:11:43 

this episode, we can talk about when to schedule it. Usually I do them in consecutive order, but we can.

Alex Markley 1:11:49 

It's probably long done whatever. Whatever we're talking about. Mario Bros. Entertainment, we already burned out we gave up.

Lance Foulis 1:11:56 

Where are they now? Episode isn't good.

Alex Markley 1:11:58 

Oh, man. Yeah, no. So you know, we have we have some fun stuff coming up at the end of 2021. And in you know, continuous, you know, ramping up of activities for 2022. We're hoping to get out to some conventions. So 2022 coming that that actually happens. Yep. And we have our own app. Now. That is in the Apple App Store, and the Google Play Store, all of that you can access through mbe.tv. And we have a really robust community on Discord right now that is continuing to grow. And there's people posting stuff all the time.

Lance Foulis 1:12:47 

A lot of fun, so discord like they can they'll be able to get to your website and then join discord that way.

Alex Markley 1:12:53 

Yep, we have a like a Join Us button that has just a ton of different ways to connect with us. And Discord is on there, the app is on there, all that stuff is is going we actually do have a patreon now as well. Okay. The reward tiers aren't very exciting yet. They're getting they're getting there, sir. But, but yeah, we're just in the process of launching incrementally.

Lance Foulis 1:13:18 

Okay. And then any closing thoughts that you have to encourage people with?

Alex Markley 1:13:23 

So to encourage people on the continuous learning and creative, creative endeavors? You know, I think, you know, there's the one main paradigm shift for, for learning and approaching new things is, is people, I feel like are equipped generally to, to be equipped for a certain thing, and then to stop. Right? So people will learn up to the point where they're taking a test or learn up to the point where they can get a certification or something, something that's necessary, and I feel like, those things are not bad. I'm not saying they're bad, but I'm saying that they incentivize the wrong behavior and the wrong attitude. Yeah. And if you can, if you're early enough in your education, that you're still being dragged through the process of passing a test or obtaining a certification, you have the opportunity to engage in a paradigm shift, where your goal is not to pass the test or to obtain the certification or to get that degree but your goal is to discipline your ability to learn, to continue to learn and to be dissatisfied with things that you don't know. Because I hear so many people creatively or in any other field, tell me, Well, I'm not a x or I can't do X. And it's like, well, we live in an information age where Yeah, you know, any information that you would ever need about how to accomplish a thing is available at your fingertips and probably for free? Yep. So, you know, you're not going to learn how to do open heart surgery on Google. I hope, hopefully. But I think that's a I think that's a different podcast, actually. But, but for the most part, if there's a creative skill or a field of study that you want to start to learn, there's no reason why you can't. And if you if you haven't engaged in that paradigm shift, it's it's never too late. You can always learn new things. And it's, it's scary. You have to put an investment in whether that's dollars or time. Yeah, usually those are interchangeable, economically speaking. So right, you put in an investment, and you get out what you pay for. Yeah. You know,

Lance Foulis 1:15:56 

that's really good. That's, that's a great place to land. And Alex, thanks so much for coming on, and really enjoyed the conversation. Very excited for the future of Markley Bros. Entertainment. Thank you. Thank you additional content, and we look forward to having you on again.

Alex Markley 1:16:09 

Oh, I'd love it. Yes. Great podcast. Enjoy listening. Thanks for the conversation. Thank you so much.

Lance Foulis 1:16:15 

• Yeah, absolutely. See you next time.

RESOURCE LINKS

Links to People and Companies We Mentioned in the Show

• Markley Bros. TV
• 13 Minutes to the Moon
• Rodecaster Pro

You can now listen to Lancelot's Roundtable on all your favorite listener sites.

Episode Length: 144 minutes

Thanks so much for tuning in. Join us again next week for another episode!

DOWNLOAD OPTIONS

• Direct Download: Right-click on the download area located in the player and click “Save As” for a direct download.
• Listen and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player for free!
• If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review so more people can find the podcast.

"If you don’t do the work and make it - it will never exist" - Alex Markley

Connect with us! leave us a comment, we love talking to and getting to know our listeners!

Follow and share Lancelot's Roundtable on Instagram.

“If you have an idea and are unique then you will create something unique from that idea” A. Markley

“Success breeds success in ourselves and is contagious to others” A. Markley

“The jump from nothing to anything is hard so people will get old waiting for something to happen” A. Markley

“God did not make us just to get 40 hours in and then be done” A. Markley

“This is a very expensive nothing” A. Markley 

“Be dissatisfied with what you don’t know” A. Markley

"If you don’t do the work and make it - it will never exist" - Alex Markley

“It’s never too late to learn new things and shift your paradigm of learning”

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/lancelots-roundtable/donations

Corporate Work Life 101: With Natalie Baldwin

Episode 19 - Listen Now Link

How has corporate work-life changed during a global pandemic

Chatting with Natalie was a fantastic conversation. Everyone needs great work buddies

Natalie and I were able to quickly bond working on large projects at work while simultaneously having young families.

In This Episode…

A discussion of work-life with a young family and how it vastly changed these last few years

• [01.04] My intro to corporate America
• [01.46] I Welcome Natalie Baldwin
• [04.55] Natalie and I first meet
• [08.04] 5 am start times  
• [09:48] Natalie’s job she interviewed for to start
• [11.08] Corporate America before company laptops vs. now
• [13.00] Walking into crucial conversations
• [14.18] The joy of food trucks at the office
• [18.46] Integrating work plus young kids needing to be somewhere
• [21.00] Trusting a new childcare provider & when it doesn’t work out
• [24.46] Back when most of us had a commute to prepare
• [29.43] Getting to that next step up
• [40.00] We’re all going through video calls with life in the background
• [48.33] When the network goes down and they break out collateral binders
• [50.35] The ins and outs of the badge entry
• [55.08] Natalie’s Favorite La Croix flavor
• [1:00.00] Favorite corporate-speak phrases
• [1:18.48] Free food in the breakroom
• [1:30.13] Virtual work relationships aren’t as organic
• [1:44.42] Advice and final words from Natalie

You can now listen to Lancelot's Roundtable on your favorite listener sites.

Episode Length: 1 Hour 42 minutes

Thanks so much for tuning in. Join us again next week for another episode!

DOWNLOAD OPTIONS

• Direct Download: Right-click on the download area located in the player and click “Save As” for a direct download.
• Listen and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player for free!
• If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review so more people can find the podcast.

"If you love your work, if you enjoy it, you're already a success." - Jack Canfield

Connect with us! leave us a comment, we love talking to and getting to know our listeners!

Follow and share Lancelot's Roundtable on Instagram.

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/lancelots-roundtable/donations

“We have to have a channel to get what’s in us out” - Tony

Tony, Brandon, and I discuss the rich history of art in Columbus and honor artists of the past in our digital media generation.

Episode 18 - Listen Now

In This Episode…

The significance of art in culture

• [00.47] Welcome to the Roundtable Tony and Brandon
• [02.15] Tony shares "how art healed me."
• [03.00] Finding Children's services work-life balance
• [05.03] Getting cultured by Tony's wife's grandmother
• [07.30] Columbus has a fantastic art scene
• [10.32] When the trauma lifts through watercolor
• [12.38] The neuroscience of art therapy
• [14.42] Pulling it out of other people when they don't know it's in there
• [24.20] A newfound love of life
• [31.50] Who was Chester Nicodemus?
• [36.02] Building a community of fans
• [39.03] The more you have of a collection the more valuable
• [42.08] What happened to Bob Ross?
• [46.10] Art doesn’t have to be intellectual to enjoy it
• [50.10] When kids art speaks
• [53.30] Half a billion dollars of art stolen in 1990
• [55.47] The humanitarian crisis of starvation
• [60.00] Best art museums for kids
• [62.00] Keep revisiting familiar pieces
• [64.00] Who is Tony’s favorite artist?
• [73.00] Warehouse art community 
• [80.00] You’re allowed to tell an artist you like their work
• [86.00] You don’t have to color in the lines, what do you feel?
• [90.00] Closing thoughts from Tony and Brandon

RESOURCE LINKS

Links to People and Companies We Mentioned in the Show

• Stanford’s Guide to Nicodemus
• Nicodemus Facebook Page
• Bob Ross Documentary
• The 1990 Gardner Museum Art Heist
• The World’s Biggest Art Heist

Tony & Brandon were our guests today. You can follow them here 

Episode 18 - Listen Now

Episode Length: 96 mins

Thanks so much for tuning in. Join us again next week for another episode!

Download Options

• Direct Download: Right-click on the download area located in the player and click “Save As” for a direct download.
• Listen and subscribe on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast player for free!
• If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review so more people can find the podcast.

“Art and music is made for the heart and what you feel about it” - Tony Garner

Connect with us! Leave us a comment, we love talking to and getting to know our listeners!

Follow and share Lancelot's Roundtable on Instagram. It helps more people find the show! @lancelots.roundtable

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/lancelots-roundtable/donations

Afghan Refugees 101: With Evacuation Team One’s Kristi & Jana

We enjoyed learning from two individuals who are passionate about rescuing people in great need.

“Can you get me evacuated because we’re being hunted?” - -anonymous 

Episode 17 - Listen Now

In This Episode…

We learn that there is a lot we can do to provide significant aid with minimal effort to people in crisis 

• [01.14] Where I was when 911 happened
• [03.22] Intro Jana & Kristi
• [07.24] Kristi shares about her heart for refugees
• [10.50] “I wanted to go get them and take them home” 
• [12:48] Life unraveled and a move to Afghanistan
• [14.45] The difference in culture
• [20.31] It’s about the people who are there
• [23.47] How fast life was actually deteriorating 
• [25.45] Combat interpreters wanted their families safe
• [31.50] Motivated to leave because things are that bad
• [34.02] People successfully evacuated to safety
• [36.33] The paperwork process discussion
• [41.08] Catch 22 of what you need to get out 
• [48.10] Staying alive for 800 days while a visa is processed?
• [50.10] A woman’s rights advocate trying to get people out
• [51.30] Being on the slaughter list 
• [55.47] The humanitarian crisis of starvation
• [60.00] What happens to the kids, especially girls?
• [65.00] What can you do to help people?
• [67.00] Keeping people out of refugee camps
• [77.00] Stories of families that need help right now
• [88.00] Closing thoughts

RESOURCE LINKS

Links to People and Companies We Mentioned in the Show

• Beneath the Veil
• Humanitarian Parole 
• Sponsor a Family
• Support Afghan Families - basic needs
• Donate Air Miles 

Kristi and Jana were our guests today. You learn more about their non-profit on Facebook here Evacuation Team One 

Episode 17 - Listen Now

Episode Length: 96 mins

Thanks so much for tuning in. Join us again next week for another episode!

Download Options

• Direct Download: Right-click on the download area located in the player and click “Save As” for a direct download.
• Listen and subscribe on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast player for free!
• If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review so more people can find the podcast.

“These are people like you and me, who decided to take a stand… and got left behind.” - Kristi

“We have a chance to make a huge difference for these people” -Jana

Connect with us! Leave us a comment, we love talking to and getting to know our listeners!

Follow and share Lancelot's Roundtable on Instagram. It helps more people find the show! @lancelots.roundtable

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/lancelots-roundtable/donations

Music as Experience 101: With Charles Roman

We love talking to creatives! This episode with St. Chrls brought with it so many useful insights about music and creativity.

"Worship is one of the biggest passions in my life! I am an artist, a songwriter, a son, a brother, an uncle, a friend - I'm just me!"

― Charles Roman

Episode 16 - Listen Now

In This Episode…

Creating brings a life and a fire to the soul. Imaging the Creator in creativity is an honor and a privilege. We’re giving back to Him what is already His.

• [02.40]  Welcome Charles
• [03.30]  I reveal my weakness in geography
• [04.19]  Who is Charles Roman
• [10.20]  Work-life experience
• [15.30]  The best time of his life at FSU
• [17.33]  Young and wide-eyed
• [19.00]  When your lane still isn't defined
• [20.50]  Dreams and responsibilities
• [27.40]  Dealing with disappointment
• [31.15]  When the vocals came back
• [34.10]  When faith is the lifeline 
• [37.16]  Heart repair
• [41.40]  When the lane God picks makes sense
• [45.07]  How Orion came about
• [50.01]  What’s the Wyld Way Podcast?
• [55.42]  Creativity out of life experience
• [57.15]  The tension of creativity and making an income
• [59.00]  Surrounding yourself with a creative community
• [61.30]  Not waiting for it to be perfect
• [62.00]  You never know who you may be helping
• [65.00]  Creativity is a form of worship
• [68.14]  Surrendering in the heartache
• [75.11]  Final thoughts from Charles Roman

People and Companies We Mentioned in the Show

• The Wyld Way Podcast
• Orion

The incredible St. Charles was our guest today. You can follow him here

@st.chrls

Episode 16 - Listen Now

Episode Length: 77 mins

Thanks so much for tuning in. Join us again next week for another episode!

Download Options

• Direct Download: Right-click on the download area located in the player and click “Save As” for a direct download.
• Listen and subscribe on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast player for free!
• If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review so more people can find the podcast.

"Take the time to live, to be where you’re at - your gonna need that experience for next endeavor, the next thing to create.”- Charles Roman

“Be where you are and learn” - Charles Roman

Connect with us! Leave us a comment, we love talking to and getting to know our listeners!

Follow and share Lancelot's Roundtable on Instagram. It helps more people find the show! @lancelots.roundtable

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/lancelots-roundtable/donations

Intellectual Spirituality 101 Part 2: With Jason & Christopher

Episode 15 - Listen Now Link

Diving deeper into why Christianity is a knowledge-based belief system.

From movies to robots and throwing out blind faith, this episode covers so many topics in a new light. 

Jason, Christopher, and I pick up where we left off in episode 14 and get right into the scientific evidence of a global flood, disruption of the created order and our DNA, and the cons of transhumanism. 

In This Episode…

A discussion of Biblical worldview and how it changes the way your brain operates in the current culture wars.

• [01.14] Picking up where we left off with part 1
• [02.30] Back to the flood
• [05.36] Christianity is not about blind faith
• [06.06] The scientific evidence of a global flood  
• [12:08] The hydrologic cycle was different before the flood
• [19.10] How did so many people come from Adam 7 Eve?
• [25.00] The understanding of God’s created order
• [30.53] We are so dependent on technology now
• [35.30] If I could only have more tech
• [40.50] There’s robots in Bambi?
• [42.00] When movies mess with your brain
• [44.43] What is transhumanist thinking?
• [47.44] What happens if we lose our humanity?
• [52.50] Anytime we ignore a natural boundary line 
• [54.38] Technology cannot replace a relationship with the Creator
• [64.00] Has evil corrupted our DNA?
• [66.40] Christianity is a knowledge-based belief system
• [70.00] I share the purpose behind season 2
• [87.00] Orienting ourselves from the right fixpoint
• [94.00] We don’t realize the emotional appeals made to us
• [102.00] A taste of Truthfully Armed podcast content
• [115.00] Closing thoughts

RESOURCE LINKS

Links to People and Companies We Mentioned in the Show

• Truthfully Armed 

You can now listen to Lancelot's Roundtable on your favorite listener sites.

Episode Length: 117 minutes

Thanks so much for tuning in. Join us again next week for another episode!

DOWNLOAD OPTIONS

• Direct Download: Right-click on the download area located in the player and click “Save As” for a direct download.
• Listen and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player for free!
• If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review so more people can find the podcast.

"Fear is not the language of the Father" - Jason Spears

Connect with us! leave us a comment, we love talking to and getting to know our listeners!

Follow and share Lancelot's Roundtable on Instagram.

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/lancelots-roundtable/donations

Intellectual Spirituality 101: With Jason Spears & Christopher Dean

Episode 14

The first in a two part Intellectual conversation with the founders of Truthfully Armed. 

I could talk with Christopher and Jason for days. We had so much fun getting into some interesting topics. I always learn something new with these two!

I’ve known Jason for over a decade and Christopher has been an inspirational man to know and learn from. 

In This Episode…

We get into terms and questions about the origin of all things, sin, evil, and unseen realms. 

• [01.14] I talk a bit about my past
• [02.05] I introduce Jason and Christopher
• [04.50] That awkward moment at the wedding
• [06.36] Grow up and pick a job
• [12:55] Friendships and movie connections
• [20.00] Breakdown of The Devil’s Advocate (1997)
• [22.15] Explanation of the Christian Worldview
• [25.09] A book unlike anything else humans have
• [27.10] Three basic enemies of a Christian 
• [30.00] Noah’s Flood & the Fibonacci Sequence
• [38.04] Embedded in Genesis 1 is space, time, and matter
• [42.28] The Genesis 6 war - Nephilim
• [47.00] The table of nations
• [54.24] What is salvation by faith?
• [56.09] When intellectual spirituality is looked down on by other believers
• [62:00] We aren’t taught that God is an extremely rational being
• [70:00] Definitions - sin, holiness, church, satan, angels
• [76:00] False light
• [82:00] Book lists
• [90:00] Closing thoughts

RESOURCE LINKS

Links to People and Companies We Mentioned in the Show

• Truthfully Armed
• Subscribe for new posts
• Support Truthfully Armed 
• Chuck Missler - Noah’s Flood
• Dr. Michael Heiser - Why is there evil in the world?
• JP Moreland 
• John McArthur 
• Lee Strobel

You can now listen to Lancelot's Roundtable on all your favorite listener sites.

Episode Length: 106 minutes

Thanks so much for tuning in. Join us again next week for another episode!

DOWNLOAD OPTIONS

• Direct Download: Right-click on the download area located in the player and click “Save As” for a direct download.
• Listen and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player for free!
• If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review so more people can find the podcast.

"Take the human appetite and sharpen it, until it’s able to split atoms with it’s desire.”- The Devil's Advocate (1997) 

Connect with us! Leave us a comment, we love talking to and getting to know our listeners!

Follow and share Lancelot's Roundtable on Instagram.

“The inability to tolerate corruption is called holiness.” -Jason Spears

"Take the human appetite and sharpen it, until it’s able to split atoms with it’s desire.”- The Devil's Advocate (1997) 

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/lancelots-roundtable/donations

Join me as Kim and I recap season 1 and recount the hilarious, deep, interesting, and useful things we've learned from our first 12 episodes.

We have a few surprises in store for you coming up this season so you don't want to miss this episode to find out.

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/lancelots-roundtable/donations