LRT Bonus Episode - A 'Chosen' Discussion - The Chosen TV series - with David Eckl

Lance Foulis 0:01 

Everybody, welcome to another bonus episode of the Lancelot roundtable. For this bonus episode, I wanted to try something new we hadn't previously done on the roundtable. Allow me to elaborate. When I was originally thinking of doing this bonus episode, I wanted it to be a review of the first season of the chosen TV series. Well, as we recorded, it turned out a bit differently than I had originally planned. So I wanted to explain three things before you listen to the episode. First thing, my special guest co-host, and I talk about reviewing the chosen throughout throughout our our talk. What actually happened during this recording wasn't really a review. Instead, I would say we just had a discussion about the chosen TV series as we recapped our thoughts and feelings for watching the first season. Second, as already stated, My original like what I was thinking about envisioning for this bonus episode was kind of a review of the entire season of the chosen TV series of the first season. Well, one episode recording for Lancelot roundtable was not even nearly enough time to do a quote review of an entire season of a TV TV series. So we we didn't even remotely get close to the end of the entire to like talking about the whole the whole first season of the chosen. And third, there are spoilers obviously in this in in our discussion of the chosen TV series. So listen at your own risk if you haven't seen it already. Now if you haven't, I really highly recommend it. So definitely, definitely take the time to go see it. Now I definitely hope that you enjoy listening to our discussion. And as always, thank you so much for taking the time to listen into the roundtable we really appreciate all of you that regularly listen in to our episodes.

David Eckl 1:50 

You get your paycheck today but every month you have to go to this hut stand in line and pay it

Lance Foulis 1:58 

yeah cuz right now dude like we don't have to see how much taxes are coming out of our paycheck Yes, we just get our direct deposit and and then every time you look at your your your cheque and you're like, wait, you took how much my paycheck would have been what Hello, everybody and welcome back to land sloths roundtable. Today we have an episode where we are going to be reviewing a TV series. That TV series is called a chosen. And here to help me with that review is my good friend David eco. Dave, welcome to the roundtable. Hi,

David Eckl 2:44 

Lance. Happy to be here.

Lance Foulis 2:45 

Yeah, happy to have you man. So we are going to be doing a review of the chosen. You feel up for that.

David Eckl 2:50 

I am totally up for it. Sweet. One of the best. Yes,

Lance Foulis 2:54 

it's a fantastic fantastic series. Why don't you tell the people a little bit about yourself?

David Eckl 2:59 

Yeah, so Lance you and I met a couple of years ago couple couple it's I think it's been seven or eight it seems like it's been a couple but at the company we currently work for still today. I am a big apple aficionado as you well know we've already talked about that.

Lance Foulis 3:15 

Number eight your cubicle you had those like what was it like the original icons on the very first app or something like that?

David Eckl 3:21 

I had something like that a lot of Apple pictures now it's just working from home I don't have those anymore. So yeah, forget about it. But yeah, big apple time. Guy love it. love everything about it.

Lance Foulis 3:33 

They heard you kind of like golf to

David Eckl 3:36 

golf. Yes. Golf on the weekends in the summer is kind of my go to I really enjoy the time out on the course. My data to now has a month old, three year old. So it's a little hectic in the home. But we're making it you make it work, right? We make it work. That's for sure. There's two boys, right? Two boys, Olin and Bo and I'm really thankful for them. I love being a dad, as I'm sure you're well aware. Oh, it's fantastic. So

Lance Foulis 4:06 

it's I feel like it's one of the biggest challenges ever been through. But it's also one of the biggest rewards biggest adventure biggest reward? Yes. Especially when you really I feel like once we got past the infant stage. I mean, we've had this conversation before. When you're when for me personally, when I was in the infant stage, it was just lack of sleep really got to me. Yes. So once we got out of the infant stage and everybody's sleeping through the night, then it just becomes like, Oh, you're living with these little humans that have these really interesting personalities. They throw giant fits sometimes. And that's not fun, but it's still very fascinating. And then like when they do start Yeah, it's just it's very rewarding, right? challenging, but rewarding,

David Eckl 4:42 

right. One of my biggest things I like to say is the word bummer around the home, so bummer. Well now my three almost three year old is now walking around the house and saying Oh bummer. Yeah, when something isn't right and I'm like okay, they are little sponges.

Lance Foulis 4:56 

They are little sponges. They absorb everything. They watch everything they See it all? Yeah, it's kind of scary. Anyway. So today, Dave, we're going to review the chosen. I don't remember when I found out about this. I think the first season was out when I first heard about it, I think was one of our friends one of Kim's good friends. Christine, I think she messaged Kim or something because we were frustrated about, there's nothing that kids can watch. There's nothing, there's nothing good that we can watch. And then I think it was Christine who messenger on Facebook or something was like, Hey, I, you guys should just watch the chosen the kids loved our kids love the chosen and it's really good. And it's really well done. So then I found out that it was like, I'm putting this in quotes everybody a Christian show. And I personally have some thoughts about, again, Christian in quotes, content that gets created movies, right feel like you can kind of always tell when you see one of these TV shows or movies. Oh, yeah, this is this is done by one of those Christian. I don't even know what you'd call them. But with with this. So when I went in, I was like, I wasn't very excited about watching this. And I think Kim and I then watched, like the first episode, and I was literally just blown away. Everything. Everything was just spot on. The music was amazing. The acting was fantastic. And the emote, you were immediately drawn in. I just I loved it. I was hooked right away. You

David Eckl 6:29 

Yeah, the theatrics of it. I think that's what you're looking for. There was just on point, like, it was one of those things where, especially in the day and age today, if you're not hooked from the start, or kind of get a little bit, you know, have a sense of Wow, that's good. You might not watch it past, you know, the intro or first, you know, a couple of minutes in there. 100% I think for my wife and I Katie, we're just like, wow, like, is intense. Yes, it is intense. It's kind of I like the it's a straight shot in terms of you know, what they're trying to talk about. It's not like they're trying to cover everything in one episode. It's spread out obviously over. Yep. And I really appreciated like, there's a very serious part in every thing that they're talking about. But there's also the humor. Yeah, that keeps you kind of coming back. Yes. It's funny. I really, you know, I, I watched season one and two, we watched it again. We're like, Let's go like, let's watch. Let's get to the other seasons. I know they have seven. Planning. Yeah, planning seven. So they are in

Lance Foulis 7:29 

three right there in

David Eckl 7:30 

three. So three just got got funded, officially, the whole series, the whole series got funded. So the whole season, the whole season. So now they're going to start filming. Okay, so I'm excited. Yeah, very excited. It's actually I did have a couple of notes here that I was surprised about is actually shot in Utah. So season one into place. I knew that Utah, yeah. And they're now they moved it down to Dallas. And that's where season three and beyond will be shot. But also the cool part about it when I was reading about it, is that they're actually going to create a tourist attraction, where you can go seasonally, that's, and thanks. So I think that would be a fun kind of thing to go see how it's shot. And yeah, maybe some of the people are there that are the actors and you know, the different props and how they did it would be a cool thing to see. Yeah, take the kids 200%

Lance Foulis 8:20 

agree with that. I didn't know any of that. I don't even think I knew or were shot. I think I thought Season Two for some reason was in Texas, but that's probably just because I saw something about season three on Instagram because I followed the director Dallas Jenkins on Instagram. And he's always posting stuff about where they're at. And so I think I just saw something where they were in Dallas, or maybe because his name is Dallas. I thought that everything was just in Dallas. That's a good one. Oh, geez. Okay, sorry folks. We had a little bit of a technical glitch. I think the headphones I had David using are bad. And I thought I'd got rid of my bad headphones but anyway, here we are. We're back. We're back. We're live and we're recording technically not live so what I was saying is I have like this website the synopsis place so it has all of the I have episode one the different things that happened in episode one so I can kind of think through I was looking through this yesterday. I know you already have some notes, but I just thought we would start with season one. So I'm just I'm just remembering like yeah, firing it up and just immediately being like, wow, like the cinematography is good. The music's good. And I was pretty much immediately hooked. So if you can remember the episode one does a really good job of like enjoying a lot of different characters in a really interesting way. So I love how in episode one, they open with just it's it's nighttime, it's this little girl, it's her dad, there's a tent, so they don't even have like a home and she's afraid I think she You said she's afraid of the dark, essentially. And then her dad's I think he hands her the doll or she has the doll. Yep. And then he's like, What do we say? And then he, he quotes Isaiah, Isaiah 43, which says, Thus says the Lord who created you, oh, Jacob, and he who formed you, oh is real fear not for I have redeemed you, I have called you by name, you are mine. And she keeps that verse in her little doll. And then if you remember, like, immediately after that, like seeing the very next scene is essentially her dad dying of something. And then it cuts to several years later, when this little girl is all grown up, and she's in a city, and she's not having the best of times. What are your memories of of that opening?

David Eckl 10:41 

Yeah. So I like from the start, it seems like every single episode is a chance to say and be who is that? Like? Who like who is this little girl? And like, how many people are in the Bible? Hundreds or 1000s of people? And it's like, Wait, who is this one person? And who are they jumping in with? I do remember. I believe it was Mary. Right. And Mary, at a very young age, what we'll see in the next couple of episodes in terms of what she is going to become and then turn into but seen from the start her I don't know just innocence and who she was and just kind of like holding on to something special. I think a lot of times a lot of people have that one special thing that they kind of hold on to a doll, a bear a blanket, that being passed down to her and her holding on to that thing I feel like was just a quick kinda like, what is that? And that really from the start season one episode one like yeah, really captivates the audience and says, Okay, well, what is that? And even see, you know, the Isaiah 59 written on it. It's like, Okay, that's interesting. So, I don't know, that just kind of jumped right into it from the start for me where it's like, what is that? Yeah, kind of follow along. And every single episode that you watch really is either a flashback, or some kind of fast forward to what's going to be talked about any episode and kind of ties back to it later in the episode. So yeah, I think what we see initially we'll, we'll get to that, but we'll come back into that picture eventually.

Lance Foulis 12:12 

Yeah, I that's a really good way to put put it when you were saying like, how, like, a lot of times they start an episode. And you don't know, it's these new characters that you haven't seen yet. Even like in later episodes, it won't start with the characters that you've known. It'll be like a brand new character, and they're doing something you're like, What are they doing? And then, and then it clicks at some point, because they go through and they're doing what they're doing. And all of a sudden, it's like, Oh, this isn't even like Jesus's time. This is this Jacob, right? Oh, that's Jacob and his sons. Oh, that's what they're doing. And like, that's just so fascinating how they do that almost like, I think last, the TV series last was the first one that I can remember that would jump around time, like that. But yeah, like how I liked how it opens. And then it's like this little girl on you're like, I don't know who this is. She's got a dad. She's living in a tent. She has this doll. They know God. So clearly, this must be an Israelite, right? But I don't know who this is. This isn't Jesus. Because it's a little girl.

David Eckl 13:13 

I like it. Yeah, it for me. I think the context like it would be it would feel off if there was like a context to say, here's what this is. And here's the time. And here's the story. It gives me that sense of okay, what is this and trying to think through the entire Bible? Like, okay, what are they talking about from this first episode? Now watching it over again? I, I know what they're talking about. But it gives that kind of, okay, what is this? Exactly? And where are they in the Bible? And what is the story showing us?

Lance Foulis 13:44 

Yeah, it's like, it's like, it's a really interesting way to take it creatively. Because instead of, if they like, opened with a paragraph to place you where you are with who you are, instead of doing that what they're doing is they're just letting you be a fly on the wall. Right and experience what's going on and like, yeah, so I liked how they set that up. And when we say its merits, it wasn't, I mean, spoiler alert, this has been out for a while. So if you're listening to this, you know, pause it and go watch the first season or the first episode and then so we don't spoil anything for you. But the Mary that it is actually Mary Magdalene, so it's not like Mary Jesus's mom. So super interesting that that's the character that they introduced, introduced us with, it was intentional. I'll just say that it was intentional that we start with her. And then the next scene that they have here is with Nicodemus, you so you there's somebody traveling along the road, and he's wearing a nice outfit, he's got a girl, clearly his wife that he's traveling with, and he's got like priestly garments on and then Romans show up like Romans with armor and everything show up and they're basically the Romans are coming to tell him we don't know who this guy is yet, but he seems to be an importer. are in person. So the Roman guard is basically like, hey, people are fishing when they shouldn't be fishing and we're not getting taxes. Is that basically the setup? I believe so? Yeah. Because it's like, we need our taxes, and they're fishing when you people aren't supposed to do any work. And we're not getting taxes for that. So you need to, you need to make us put a stop to this. And that guy, he's a little bit like, I don't do your work, and they're like, well, you're going to anyway, so that's what I remember. Is that what you remember?

David Eckl 15:26 

Yeah, Nicodemus is a he's an important character in the full season one, like looking at it and really seen him from the start, you know, he is of importance with when they're riding, I believe it was horse and chariot like he is sitting like a king. And his role, what you'll see throughout the entire season one and season two, actually is is very important, but just to hear what he has to say and how he handles certain things he's getting he's got a little bit of some intrigue to him about what's going on. And understanding okay, something's something's up. Like he seems like there's something going on. And just in that early episode, and that early interaction with the Romans, something's not right. There's some something missing there that keeps intriguing you Yes. Okay. What is okay, what's going on here? Yeah. Yeah, that was a good, that was a good start. I really liked that. Start to add to see Nicodemus and what he eventually will do, and how he meets Jesus and talks to him. And that's tough. So you can kind of see right away this is kind of getting into the story of Jesus and what is going to come?

Lance Foulis 16:42 

Yeah, yeah, it's this show does a really good job of getting you invested not just in a singular character, but like, it sets up like a full story of like so many individual characters, and they're all very, very, very unique. Yes. And they all are drawn to this guy, Jesus, for very different reasons, yet kind of the saint, it's how they do that is really, really, really well done. And by the way, I always do this whenever I'm watching something, if I see if I see an actor, I'm like, oh, what else have I seen him in? So the guy that plays Nicodemus, his the actor's name is Erick Avari, who's actually a fairly well known actor. He was in like the first scene of Independence Day, he's the guy that wakes up and hits his head on a thing because somebody wakes him up, and he's monitoring for alien activity. First time I saw this actor was in actually Stargate. He plays like the main guy in the movie Stargate, sorry, the chief of like the locals. He's like the chief or the locals. So anyway, they got a that was that was one of the I don't think I recognized any of the other actors in this series. But I did recognize him. So I just wanted to call that out. Okay, so the next is there anything else you want to say about that scene? Good to go. Okay. All right. Then the next scene, we are introduced to Matthew, a tax collector. He's an Israelite, but he collects taxes for the Romans. And he is the actor that plays. Matthew is Paris Patel. And he's an Outstanding Actor in this role. Do you remember that? You remember that scene.

David Eckl 18:19 

Matthew is interesting, from the direction that he plays in this first off in the Bible, but then also in this series, just about where he comes from, and where it he is doing and how he goes about himself is interesting, because he's, he's truly unlike anyone else. Because everyone doesn't like him. Yeah. So any, we get into it with throughout the seasons, and the series is of how he kind of handles himself. But in this situation, we see him early about what he is going to be doing and what he is called to do. And I remember in kind of that first episode that Matthews just kind of, he's a little different. Yeah. And how he handles himself and seeing that i He's another one of those characters. That's like we now in been introduced to three characters already tuned. Mary, Nicodemus and Matthew, they all have this interesting type of thing to him. Yeah. And it's another one of those notches that's like, Okay, what is this and what's going on? Let's find out more about what they're about. Obviously, when you introduce a tax collector into this series, that it's going to obviously interrupt throw people off because it's someone that a lot of people don't like, and it kind of creates that maybe a bad character right off the right off the bat, like, yeah, why is this guy collecting taxes? Let's not show about him, but he was just as important to Jesus as anyone else. So yeah, it was early on he kind of get that feel for who he is and what he's gonna. What he's going to be for the for the show.

Lance Foulis 19:59 

Yeah. So like in the scene, he's like, on his way to his work, and he can't take a direct route, because that would put could put him at danger because like you said, a tax collector is not a very liked individual, they're collecting taxes for Rome, I think historically, they were known to, you know, maybe make people pay a little bit more than what they had to pay. And they would kind of take a little extra for themselves. So they were kind of like, despise and especially if, if you're an Israelite, which Matthew is, your all Israelites are subject under Rome right now. And he's working for, quote, the enemy. Because you're, you're under the you're under the rule of Rome, but you're your own ethnic group. And the fact that you're collecting taxes for the Romans, but you're actually an Israelite, there's, like, inherent levels of feelings of betrayal that we get into, obviously, but just the fact that he's very isolated kind of individual, he seems to like it first. But he seems to also not be happy about it. And just the nature of him not even being able to take a direct route to work and having almost smuggle himself. And then he gets there. And then that's when he has protection, because there's Roman guards there to kind of keep him safe, right, which we find out later. Well, we'll get to it.

David Eckl 21:16 

But even like in that's in that first scene, when he's going to work, what you see about him is he is trying to be as clean as possible. I think he thinks everyone else is dirty, you always see kind of not touching things, or just kind of being a little standoffish. And it's like, Okay, what's going on here? Like, do you not, you know, he is is or like, you not associate with these people? Yeah, because you are now the tax collector. It's, it is interesting.

Lance Foulis 21:47 

That just that reminds me because I think in the opening scene is when he's at his house, right? Yes. And he's like, got like a whole plate of food, like nice food, what you probably consider nice food. He's like dabbing, like, oils on himself or whatever to smell good. And then he puts on these really nice looking leather sandals, which he then proceeds to step in, poop. And then he, alright, we had a little bit of a hiccup there. I just caught it out of corner, my eye it stopped recording. So now we're recording again. So I think what I was just saying is like, this guy, Matthew, the character that we're introduced to, he's got his own. He has a backup pair of sandals. And you can kind of I got the sense that nobody says anything. But like, Oh, those are probably extra expensive sandals. These are like some Nike, you know, Jordan whatever's Yes, they

David Eckl 22:33 

are. They are not, they are not the Old Navy $5 Summer sandal. These are not that

Lance Foulis 22:40 

these are not those sandals. Yeah, they're just like that these are be super expensive. And not the the average person couldn't have it. And then he goes, and he walks steps in some poop. And he immediately has a backup pair that he can replace. And there's even that character that is he gets into the back of the guy's wagon, but the character is like, Oh, you're throwing those away, because you stepped in poop, give them to me that I could sell them and feed my family for a month. He said something like that. So we can tell that Matthew is very wealthy? He has. I don't know, he has a status type job. And he's just in a comfortable type position, I guess I would say

David Eckl 23:15 

He is very young. It's a good point of his age and might not be the wisest to make the decision will spoiler it also later on, you'll see with his parents, his parents don't agree with him being a tax collector, right at all. So I think he is a little young and immature in the fact that he chose this route for his life. Yeah. And he's kind of going about it on his own. Yeah, to figure things out.

Lance Foulis 23:42 

Yep. Yeah, that's good. All right. And then we go the next scene, it takes us back to Nicodemus, who has arrived at a synagogue and we basically, then it basically shows us how important he is. Because when he arrives at the synagogue, all of the people in the synagogue had been waiting for him to arrive. And basically, they start calling him like the Teacher of teachers. He's just you get a sense, like, this isn't just some random priestly guy. This isn't just some random Pharisee. Like this is somebody who's really high up there on whatever this hierarchy is. Do you have any thoughts about that scene?

David Eckl 24:19 

Just that you see, especially in the synagogue, you see early on the tradition and the history of what faith meant to people. And it was the history of Nicodemus being what they called him the teacher.

Lance Foulis 24:34 

All right, another technical issue, but we are back. Okay, we were talking you were talking about the Teacher of teachers.

David Eckl 24:41 

Nicodemus being the Teacher of teachers. And what we had talked about was him being that to so many people, at that certain time that whenever he would go someplace he had that respect for everyone else, or that everyone else had would have the respect for him and he would, everyone would look at him as a And person in that day because that's all they had to go for because of his faith at that time. So it was a very important person in the early go of this and what people's faith was at that time.

Lance Foulis 25:15 

Yeah. Yeah, that's good. I was I was kind of blown away because they had prepared a reading room for him. And so he gets in, and like everything set up where he's going to be reading what scrolls he's got, they have the pen thing that that so like, they have this thing that looks like a pen. And it's like, when they read, they're moving this thing along each word. So they're not actually writing anything, but it's like an instrument that they use when they actually read, which was wild. So they're like, is everything set, you know, to your standards? I think they had like some snacks there. And he's like, Yeah, that's fine, thank you. But I was just like, man, person arrives and like you have your own reading area set up and all of these very particular things like that's some that's some level of status, for sure. Okay, and then I one thing that's important to point out about this particular scene is that when it ends, a Roman shows up and proceeds to usher himself into this room, which is apparently like a no, no kind of disrespectful, and they're like, well, like all the other guys are like, What are you doing? You can't just walk in here? And he's like, Yes, I actually can. Thank you. And that's when the Romans are like to Nicodemus the character, like, we have a problem. There's a demon possessed person there. There was another scene, I think, that we had had where it flashes back to Mary and she's having some major issues. She actually sees. She sees a Rome and I think, and then she has a flashback, of of like earlier on, and it's just a silhouette of a Roman soldier coming into the room where she's at shutting the door, and you can infer what happened to her. She was a victim at that point. And then when she has that memory, she's having that memory from seeing a Roman in real time. And then like is messing with her? Like she you can just tell she's in a real turmoil, and then Then she's having issues in a room. Did I miss anything? You did not

David Eckl 27:17 

the one character I was gonna bring up in, really the start of it that will see important throughout everything is Schmell. Oh, yeah, shimmy. Well, Chanel, Chanel, like just the name of it. It's like, Who is this? Yeah, who is he? He I believe the guy was like, set up the room, right? Yes. And he was, I believe the right hand man to Nicodemus, that sounds right. Yeah, he was almost the next in line. And it does definitely the sense that you get it and yes, and there's something particular about him that was interesting, where he was, okay, what's going on? Like another one of those characters that's like, Okay, we have Mary, who is in this state of turmoil, turmoil. And then you have Roman guards, you have Matthew, and just one of those people that were keeping track of that. I mean, I've read the Bible, pretty much in my entire life. I haven't heard of him before, right in the Bible. So another a character that was, I believe, in the book, but also important in this to show kind of who Nicodemus is, and give them that support to what he's going to do.

Lance Foulis 28:19 

Yeah. Did you know when you say like you would read? Do you remember anybody named schmo shimmy? Well, in the Bible, not to my knowledge. Yeah, me either. But that's one cool thing about I think the series is that it introduces, it introduces characters that fit in in the world, and bring it more to life, I think. But yeah, he's a very interesting character, because your mind knows like, I'm cutting the track with this person. And you don't know why. But yeah, the show does a really good job of that. I think, like, oh, I need to need to pay attention to this guy is like as soon as Nicodemus arrives, this character from UL is like, Oh, I'm so glad that you're here. I've set up this room for you and like yelling at the Roman guard, you're not allowed in here. And then so one funny thing that happens when we're kind of all over the place, but it is what it is. When the Roman guard or when the Roman soldier shows up and they're like Nicodemus, you need to go down to the red quarter because there's somebody who's having a demon possessed situation and we can't have it. And he's taught. I don't think we know but you could probably have inferred it. They're talking about Mary Mary's having a severe issue. Some kind of demon possession type of a thing is what they're alluding to. And Nicodemus Nicodemus, his response is like, I don't, I don't deal with affairs of Rome, that's you need to deal with that. And then the Roman soldier is like, what did he say? He said something like you need to go take care of it. Your Way or or Rome will take care of it with our fire of fires. I don't remember what he said like before he said fires of fires, but that was hilarious because he basically was like, he asked nicely the first time then Nicodemus was like, No, that's Rome's problem. And then he's like, Well, Oh, you're actually going to do it, or we're going to just go down and destroy the place.

David Eckl 30:04 

It's, it was an interesting scene, quote unquote, where he went to go do that. Like he did not want to go down this Yeah. Or they can Amos did not want to do that.

Lance Foulis 30:15 

Yeah, it's a super it's so like, you definitely get the sense in this scene that it's a very edgy, not great area of town is the place that you don't want to go visit. You're not safe there. All of the deplorables are there. So this this high up guy wants nothing to do with going to that area of town.

David Eckl 30:36 

Right? Yeah, it is. It's going to be an interesting scene in it to see that someone that was possessed to being that taking out of them of what's to come there. Yeah. It's not an area that he wanted to go to but their own. The only true way for her to come out of that was for Nicodemus to go down there. Interesting that the Roman guard would say, hey, like, you need to take care of it instead of us. Because you would think with someone being possessed, you would probably choose the fire fires for them rather than saying, hey, Nicodemus, you need to go take care of them. Yeah. And then have that come out of her?

Lance Foulis 31:16 

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, it was a very, very, very interesting scene. So like, obviously, once that scene is over, it cuts from Nicodemus his storyline, essentially over to two brothers. So the next thing we're introduced to Simon Peter, and his brother, Andrew, and what are they doing?

David Eckl 31:38 

They are, were they fishing, they

Lance Foulis 31:41 

are gambling. They were in they were using, they were fighting. Simon Peter was like, basically in a boxing street match with this other guy who we find out later is his brother in law. And they're basically gambling and betting on Simon. They don't explain the rules. But basically, Simon is getting just punched around. And you kind of figure out that he's, he's playing the game. He's not really as hurt as he's letting on. He's not almost done, as he's letting on. And his brother Andrew is like looking on telling him you got to take another punch. And then Sam Peters, like, I don't want to take another one. And then his brother Andrew is like no, like, it's all like signals, right? Nobody's saying anything. They're just making looks at each other. And then he's like, No, you gotta take another one. So then he takes another punch. And he's acting like super hurt. Simon Peter is acting like he's super hurt. He's not called Simon Peter yet. He's just called Simon. And and then he like, Does this really cool hop, kicks himself up onto his feet after something apparently went the right way. And then he starts beating the tar out of the other guy. So Simon all of a sudden flips the tables, and is clearly not as hurt he said he had seemed to be and then he beats down the other guy who's his brother in law, which I don't even know if it reveals that. I don't think so. Any any thoughts on on on that?

David Eckl 33:03 

Interesting that fighting is something that's prevalent in the day and age and everything that's going on, obviously, it's another one of those things where we were introduced to Mary first now Nicodemus, and then when we're introduced to Matthew, and now we're introduced to more disciples of Christ, and you see that and like, what they're going to become for Jesus, and like, in the fighting aspect of it for me, I was like, okay, like, this is interesting. I'm not too much into fighting. Like, I don't like to watch it, you know, but I understand back then, obviously, it was some hobby that people enjoy doing. And they would

Lance Foulis 33:44 

was a form of entertainment when you didn't have a TV, no TV or watch a couple of days.

David Eckl 33:48 

Exactly. each other. Exactly. And they would gamble on it. And that was the afternoon of fun when they weren't working. It was it was interesting.

Lance Foulis 33:56 

Yeah. Yeah. And I also like thinking about overall how they do the TV show. Like if you've if, if you have been and like, I grew up in the church, I grew up reading my Bible. Well, actually, I didn't really start reading my Bible until I was older. I thought it was boring. But in reading the Bible in, you know, if you've gone to Sunday school, you've heard stories, you know, Peter, he's like, he's a top tier character and your brightness if you know the story of the Bible, Andrew, not so much a top tier character, but still an important character Jesus top to your character, Nicodemus. Now, I don't even know if he's literally mentioned in the Bible. He is He is maybe once or twice, okay, so he's a real character. Yes. And then Mary Magdalene, she is as well, but again, not a key character, Matthew, I don't really remember reading. I mean, he wrote one of the books in the Bible, but I don't really remember noticing him is a character that had a bunch of stories in the Bible. And what's interesting about this, this series is they don't, they don't start you off with a character writers that you're expecting like, Oh, it's a story about Jesus, we still haven't seen Jesus yet. And we're like, what three or four scenes in still haven't met Jesus don't know where he is. Don't know who he is. Maybe we have seen him, we don't know. And then finally, now we're just getting introduced to somebody that people that know the story of the Bible, they would know. Oh, Peter, I know who Peter is. His name was his name was Simon. So he's not the first character Mary is the first character, which is really fascinating to me. Okay, so basically, we get the sense that Simon is maybe not your he he may be isn't your the role model that you would want your kids to model themselves after he's gambling, he's fighting, trying to get money. And we realized, I don't remember if we realize in the scene, but basically, they need money. So they're trying to figure out how to make money because they haven't been making enough money fishing. And then we find out that Peter is married, which I think was a very fascinating take. I don't personally have any theories on whether or not he was actually married, except for I was reading mark the other night. And it did say, talk about his mother in law was sick, and that Jesus healed his mother and see that so if he has a mother in law, and again, I don't know the actual Hebrew of the book of Mark, but I remember reading that it's a mother in law, not his mother. So did you have any? What did you think when you saw Peter is married and his wife's name is Eden

David Eckl 36:30 

Simon is a very interesting character in this, you know, there's something about him when you're watching just kind of funny,

Lance Foulis 36:38 

witty, yes, he good humor,

David Eckl 36:41 

yes, has good humor, something about him. And when you go into the scene initially, like with him fighting, and then finding out he has a wife, there's some kind of, I don't know, sleight, I would say in terms of what he is doing and trying to do and get, you know, obviously, money to be able to pay taxes to be able to live to be able to do certain things. So he's trying to find all these different routes to take to be able to do something. Especially Andrew mean, his brother's a little bit, I would say, a little bit more wise, in terms of just is nature. But Simon is, is an interesting character, I think he's going to be great. And it's like, you would never have pictured if this was the first time you're watching or reading or following along with this. And you have no history of the Bible, or what it's talking about. The people that are starting to come into the scene. I don't think anyone would have an idea that they're all going to be together. Yeah, at some point. You know, it's like, way these stories,

Lance Foulis 37:44 

Jesus is gonna pick all these people to be in his troop. Yeah. See that? Because they're all two different.

David Eckl 37:49 

Yes. All different corners, the high levels, low levels, fighting people demon possessed. Simon is an interesting one, especially Andrew, and this.

Lance Foulis 38:00 

Yeah. And just like all the other characters that we've mentioned, they're all all of the actors are fantastic. And Paris Patel, like we were saying is, is who plays Matthew, I've never seen him in anything before. Shahar. Isaac is who plays Simon and he is super ripped. Yes, super ripped. And he's a fantastic actor. And I didn't think of this until you were kind of talking about it. But are you we're talking about Simon and Andrew but they have really great chemistry. Like you totally can believe that. They're brothers the way that they get they're very different. And just how they interact with each other is very brotherly. Which I guess you would expect but it's it's well done to their

David Eckl 38:41 

jobs in nature of being fishermen. Like you need to be very muscular you need to have a lot of I would say mind power but also that body power to be able to take these nets bringing all these fish you know do those kinds of things and do that I feel like getting your

Lance Foulis 38:59 

fingers all caught up with those nets you probably have major calluses I mean, have you ever seen Deadliest Catch people? Did you ever see that show? Deadliest Catch? No. Oh my gosh, I was really into that show like I don't know how long ago but yeah, it's just these fishermen in Alaska that go out and like get crab and it's super dangerous like the weather can turn in an instant and yeah, so anyway,

David Eckl 39:21 

but the net like there's no modern technology there's no hooks to be able to pull things in manually or automatically from the boats. It's your hands are out there. You're pulling in these fish you need to be very muscular and well fit to be able to withstand the days and you know, they're not just hanging out on the boat about getting suntan out the hair. They're right. They're working. You know, it is a working man's job and that is something that is very important to see. Yeah, in the visual of that too. I you know, you resonate a little bit with that, that they are relentless in their efforts to find a wage to support your family to support your why If Yeah, the mother in law for assignment isn't sick yet we don't see her right sick that will come eventually. But to be able to provide for the family is huge in this situation in this instance. So yep, I feel like he's going to all ends to figure out how we can bring in money for that.

Lance Foulis 40:15 

Yep. And like, it is really interesting when you meet Eden, you can see like, Oh, this is Simon's house, this is his wife, you get the sense that they're really young, like, like, in in that culture, you've alluded to this, but in that culture, you're the guy, you're out there and you gotta you got to do what you got to do to bring in provision. And if you don't do it, you and your wife starve your wife is home, taking care of things, getting food ready, taking care of the house, so that the house stays in order. But I just remember, I don't remember if it was this scene, but just kind of like the scenes that that we have with Peter, or excuse me with Simon and Eden, is just his, the burden, you can see the burden that he's carrying in need wanting to take care of his wife, and there's even like, Andrews around, he's doing stuff too. But you could you just get this set. I got this sense watching Peter. He's, it felt to me like he's more newly married, maybe a year, maybe two years or whatever. But like, he's just got this burden of responsibility on him. Like, I've got to take care of stuff. And I just feel that way. And I remember being young and married Kim, I was 25. When Kim and I got married, she was 21. I did not have an established career, but I can remember the burden of like, I need to be able to provide for my family. And like when things aren't going well. I can remember many times when things wouldn't go well. And it just seems like things aren't going right. And so just I just remember getting this set, getting that sense and feeling for Peter, especially as we get to know him like, things aren't easy. I can kind of see why he's making decisions that he's making that I wouldn't necessarily make. But he is under like a level of duress. Did you get any feelings like that?

David Eckl 41:59 

Yeah, so Eden is very much so a character a person that is really being forward in terms of how she's, you know, trying to be a wife to Simon and I think, especially the scenes I know what you're talking about, like where you're seeing her, you know, make food she's doing the laundry, she's cleaning up the house, you know, Simon's a lot of times I think I remember vividly and there is that Eden, said to said to her was there said to him said, Well, you know, where are you going? He's like, I gotta go, I'll be back. And like one of the things like he's going to do something to either make money to do something for fishing, but he's trying to figure it out where the responsibility now isn't just on his own. It's to provide for his family. Yeah. And seeing that was was key too.

Lance Foulis 42:51 

Yeah. So okay, so the next scene, we actually go back to Nicodemus and he is traveling through the seedy area of town. They call it the red quarter. It's where unsavory characters are, and they're walking around I think it's just funny because you got Nicodemus I think she she Manuel's like, to your point before he's like, right behind them right hand guy, I'm putting that in quotes. And there's like two or three other these guys, you can just tell they're incredibly out of their element. They're very uncomfortable, I think they see either prostitutes, or slaves or slaves that are prostitutes, like on the corner on the corner of the street. I'm putting that in quotes. Because it's, it's there's an image that happens and you just see them kind of look and make eye contact. When you see Nicodemus and his cohorts making eye contact with this scene, where these people are either getting sold or they're they're standing on a corner waiting to be purchased or something like that. You can just tell Oh, no, I need to avert my eyes. I shouldn't even be seeing what I'm seeing and they're traveling to go deal with this situation. And then when they get close to it, they have the audio of what we assume is Mary because there's a room or like I guess what we could call an apartment and you can just hear growling wailing very just noises that make you feel something's very very off

David Eckl 44:22 

very uneasy, very uneasy. Yes. And even going into it it's I mean, you don't there's no other show or series that you would see something like this being talked about or shown like it's not something you would watch on TV it's very much you know, she was demon possessed. And hearing those things it's like what is going on here like you know, you're intrigued to find out more you want to keep watching you don't want to like turn away you want you want to see what she might be going through and what this Nicodemus who, besides the Roman guards potentially As the top guy, you know, in the city, the Teacher of teachers coming in to treating probably one of the lowest type of people in the city. Yep. And having an interaction where it's, this doesn't happen too often. Right? Let's watch it. Let's get into it.

Lance Foulis 45:17 

Yeah, absolutely. And you can tell I mean, they do a really good job of setting up like, okay, something is really like you're hearing these noises that are coming from that room and you're like, Okay, this is actually very serious. And this guy, yeah, should be able to do something in this situation, but he doesn't look like he's not inspiring a whole lot of confidence in what he's going to do. But then he kind of takes charge he goes, he looks to his dude Shmi well, and he basically is like, go get these ingredients, some kind of bark and some kind of incense thing and like, go get it quickly. And so that guy runs off come back and then he's got like, nicotine has has like, some branches I think with some things that he's got like an incense thing. So it's like smoking out. So So it's basically like a chain. And at the end of the chain is like a big, I don't know, bowl type of enclosed bowl thing and there's smoke coming out. So there's some kind of hot coals in there. This like burning something is making smoke and so then he goes in, he's got his, quote tools, his exorcism tools, and he goes into the room. And they made this part like, pretty, pretty scary. In my opinion, it was a little bit more, they pushed, they pushed an edge that like kind of what you said earlier, you wouldn't see the type of a thing in any kind of Christian type production. I wouldn't expect they're not pulling any punches. It's like yes, this lady is in severe torment. And it's a it's a demonic possession. And she's just kind of like moving around on the floor you don't see her face it's just the back of the face and then it comes to the point he's like talking and like the her like the stuff that's coming I have no not even say like her voice because it's not her voice it's like what the noises are coming out of her vocal cords are changing and getting more intense and then she like turns to look at him as he's like saying the stuff that he's saying he's like I juror you get out leave this woman alone. And like then it like her face turns to look at them. And the way that they did that was wow, I was really on the edge of my seat. What are your thoughts? This

David Eckl 47:32 

like the story is in the Bible, so it is true. And I like initially you said that you watched it with your kids this

Lance Foulis 47:41 

Oh, we didn't watch this scene with the kid. Okay, okay. Well, that's all day would have nightmares for a while

David Eckl 47:45 

because I don't know how they would be able to do it. But I think

Lance Foulis 47:49 

it was the episode The next step or three episode three which is with the kids that's the one episode they've seen

David Eckl 47:54 

the what we initially talked about to the theatrics of it yes show. You know that look, and I do vividly remember that image of Mary looking at Nicodemus in what is going on is scary. Yeah, like it is very much like anything could happen. Yeah, Ines. But also at the same time, it's one of those things that keeps you coming back for more. Yeah, this demon possessed person Mary is now changing. It's coming out of her in some way. Yeah, she is going to change and do something else. And it's like, we had no other history or story of Mary at the start of this other than when she was with her dad initially. Yep. And then she young innocent kid. Exactly. And then she goes into this state over after years of torment to be able to get to this and now it's going to be a massive change to be in doing something to glorify, what's to come and that's just amazing. Yes. And I know Nicodemus in the future in this story to it, he goes into talking a little bit more about you know, what he saw there? And what he had to go through and I mean, that's just one of those notches on the belt or it's like wait, you went and faced a demon possessed person and said these things and we're in that room? I just couldn't believe what it would be like no real time outside of shooting this for the for the show, but it just unbelievable.

Lance Foulis 49:19 

Yeah, like the fact that he even had the courage to go into the room is wild because if I encountered something like that in real life one I wouldn't know what to do and to just you don't know what you're gonna face when you get in there and you're trying to do something like he went in there and Elise tried Now obviously, like it failed, because the thing talked through Mary like after she is basically like, what did what did what did it say these like, we don't know you or we don't care essentially, like we're not listening to you. We don't have to listen to you. Like get out of here. We're done with you. And then he is like, just shocked and basically he just leaves in And she's not okay. And then that's that's basically the end of the scene. Yeah. It was, it was a very intense scene. Any other thoughts there?

David Eckl 50:09 

I don't know how Nicodemus like he was obviously told to do it. He was going to save this, Mary, you know, he didn't know what was going to come out of it, he was going to give it his best effort to being able to healer. And has just like, that's the reality of it. Some people have that still today. And it's even seeing that how he had dealt with it was just for me, it was It was eye opening, because I'd never seen that before. In anything. Yeah. And reading it. In the Bible, you don't get that kind of context of what the video or picture of it would, would be able to show you.

Lance Foulis 50:48 

Yeah, it's one thing to read in the Bible that this, you know, so and so is demon possessed, and the demons would throw him on the ground. And he would convulse for a few minutes. Like, it's like, you read that and you don't go okay. But then when you see it portrayed like that, they did it in this were like this individuals in torment, and they're, they can't do anything to help themselves in that situation is very eerie and freaky. And yeah, eye opening. I think you said that.

David Eckl 51:14 

It's not like you have the popcorn bowl right next to and you're grabbing it to eat more of it. You're like, not blinking. eyes focused? Yeah, every single second of it. And it's like, wait, what? Like, this is going to come out of this person, and she's going to be completely different. It's like, what,

Lance Foulis 51:32 

how do we get there? Yeah. How in the world are we going to get there? Yeah. One thing to call out here, because like her name, and my little like, website here, we know her as Lillith right now, we haven't made the connection that it's Mary. It's good point. Because that's a that's a very important thing is that we know this individual that her name is Lilith, and we don't know anything else about her other than what we've described, but nobody's called her Mary in this point. Sure. Because that's a very important thing for the close of the episode we're getting to so anyway, basically, that after Nicodemus leaves, some time passes, and then we find Lilith waking up. And she wakes up. This is important because she she has like a flashback of being with her father. And I think in this scene, yeah, she gets her she finds her doll. And like in the doll is the piece of paper she pulls out and it's the that scripture from Isaiah and so she's kept it this whole time, is she's looking at it now after having gone through this episode. And you can kind of tell like, this has happened to her before. She's just so done. I'm so sick of having to go through this stuff like can't anything like no nothing can and then she I think she rips up the piece of paper, which is a very like intense like, she had been carrying it this whole time. So whatever breaking point she is, she's at it is an intense breaking point, because she's taken this thing that she's kept with her, essentially came from her father cheese destroying it was a very intense scene,

David Eckl 53:03 

very intense, especially something now you've had for that many years. And then you've gotten to that breaking point to be able to do that it's eye opening to see that and I remember, even in future episodes, she ends up reciting that verse from from memorization. So it's something that she still has in her heart that she's living with. But the symbolism of her taking that piece of paper and tearing it up seems like you know, there's a breaking point that she just had to kind of forget that maybe the past that she just went through a page turned to what's going to come.

Lance Foulis 53:37 

Yep, that's good. All right. And so then we go back to last, these are the basically the last couple scenes here. We'll go through these kind of quickly. So it's tax day, and people are going to the tax booth to pay their taxes. So we are we witness Andrew and Simon going to the tax booth where Matthew is Matthew is revealed to be their tax collector, and they get there and they basically figure out that because of back taxes and everything else that they owe way more than they are Andrew was way more than they thought and Andrew cannot pay his taxes. And he's at the point, okay, we can't pay your taxes, you're gonna go to jail. Because if you couldn't pay your taxes, then you got thrown in jail where you would never be able to pay your taxes. So you basically that's it, you're you're done your life's over. And then that's when Simon tells Matthew and reveals, hey, I've got a I have an agreement with the main Roman magistrate and the magistrate. I was looking this up yesterday. I should have had this up on my on my iPad here. But a magistrate is somebody who has like pretty extensive authority. right in line with Caesar. So Simon is basically saying he has an arrangement on his taxes and Andrews taxes with the magistrate Quintus Who was the guy who was bossing Nicodemus around at the beginning of the episode and So he's basically telling Matthew Hey, you know, we don't, we won't be owing taxes because of the arrangement. Once I'm done with what I'm doing for Quintus all my taxes and all Andrews taxes will be done. And Matthew being Matthew, he doesn't believe them. Because Matthew is like, no, like you're not trustworthy, it just something doesn't make sense. There's no way you could have made this arrangement. So he doesn't believe him. But that's essentially where that scene ends. Did you have any thoughts there?

David Eckl 55:24 

The image I have from that Matthew, collecting taxes right outside of it is the Roman guard. standing there like kind of just making sure everything's kind of going to order is yes, yeah. And guys is when he hears Andrew and Simon talk, he's like, something's not right with these guys. Something's up. So

Lance Foulis 55:41 

it's kind of side looking like what's going on over there?

David Eckl 55:44 

Yes. and Canada. He is Gaius is Matthews kind of guard to go take him around to places and they chose to create an interesting relationship over time, but like, Matthew is truly protected because of Gaius. But also in this scene, it's interesting to see like, where you pay taxes it's not like you know, they're taken out of your paycheck you know, you're surely going to this huddle, you

Lance Foulis 56:08 

have to show up with your your funds in hand. Yes. And pay it stop what you're doing. No, you cannot go work during this time. You have to show up and you have to bring your taxes and if you don't do it, you're gonna be in a world of hurt. Yes.

David Eckl 56:20 

Pay what to Caesar. What is Caesar's,

Lance Foulis 56:22 

again, like just the feeling that you get, it's just the burden on these people to do what? To pay their taxes to do what they need to do. It's just the burden feels very heavy. As you're as you're watching it.

David Eckl 56:35 

It'd be interesting. If that was today, though. Yeah. When I was thinking about it, like, how would you put yourself in their shoes, like you get your paycheck today, but every month, you have to go to this hut? Stand in line, and pay it?

Lance Foulis 56:49 

Yeah, cuz right now, dude, like, we don't have to see how much taxes are coming out of our paycheck. Yeah, we just get our direct deposit and, and then every time you look at your, your, your check in, you're like, wait, you took how much? My paycheck would have been? What? So like, it is kind of funny that to your point is like, they have to like show up and like, here's my taxes. And it's not like you're getting anything. I mean, technically you're, I guess not getting invaded by barbarians or whatever. But

David Eckl 57:17 

yeah, that's the ledger. Lance, is kind of

Lance Foulis 57:21 

in front of everybody, right? Like, you'd have to go to this tax person. And they clearly have an idea who Matthew is. He's an Israelite, and he's telling them you have this Oh, and because you didn't pay here, and he's doing like math. And you remember, he's like doing math in his head with his fingers. So you can tell like, he's very gifted with numbers. But this guy is basically telling you like, no, that's not enough. What you just brought isn't enough, you need that. So like you're already like, in a state of humility. Like in that situation, the other guy wins. Because what are you going to do? You can't argue in this situation,

David Eckl 57:51 

maybe I'm okay with how taxes are taken. The moral of the story is, but I'll a lot of times in this, I put myself and my myself in the shoes of what these people had to go through back in the day. And yeah, this is a situation where I would be like, I don't really want to do that. Yeah, but obviously, systems change and all this stuff. And obviously, it's not, it's not how it's done today, here. But a lot of times in this whole situation like what would you do if you were Nicodemus, would you have gone right and healed? Mary? Would you have said no rolling Roman guards? You take care of them? Yep. Interesting. Yes. Across the board.

Lance Foulis 58:31 

Yes. 100%. Agreed. Yeah. And that's one good thing about there's so many different characters, and they are all relatable in some way. Matthew's state of security is very relatable, because like, he's, he's well fed. He's well, he has what he well clothed. He's got shoes on his feet, he's got a stable position. So like, that's relatable in the sense of like, what would it take for me to stop like, Where? Where are my morals? Where's my sense of? Yeah, Where's where's my moral sense? And like, what would need to be going on to where I would not choose the security that I'm having? I get that kind of feeling for Matthew, and then in with Simon and Andrew, it's like, oh, my gosh, like, how, how am I going to make it through this? How am I going to get the funds to pay and like, what I have to do whatever it takes, and I'm willing to do not necessarily whatever it takes, but I'm willing to do some things that I wouldn't necessarily be willing to do, but I have to do it. Otherwise, I'm sunk. So everybody's, there's just something relatable about every single character and I find myself in each kind of like what you were saying putting myself in their shoes and being like, oh, man, I kind of get like a real taste of what they're doing and why they're doing it. Yeah. So

David Eckl 59:45 

what we first talked about, was about how they went to Nicodemus and said, there's people fishing on quote unquote, Shabbat, which we are now as the Sabbath day the rest and thank you Got that, like, would you if you needed to make ends meet? Would you go and fish on the Sabbath? To try to catch fish to be able to feed everyone and make ends meet? Would you do that, and it's just one of those situations that I was thinking about, it's like, maybe that's what it comes to, or else I have to go to jail. Like, at that point, it's like I'm at between a rock and a hard place. And I have to go do that, to make ends meet. So it's just one of those situations that, you know, other thing that I put myself in the shoes of the people, and it's, it's true, you know, that's what it is today. And that's what it is back then what it is today, it's like, you know, you have to make ends meet, you have to do whatever it takes to be able to provide for what we see in Simon and Eden, but also your family. And this is what Matthew is doing. I mean, the tax collector, you know, does he have to do this? I mean, that's what he wanted to do. And that's where he chose to do. Does he want to do it? I'm not sure.

Lance Foulis 1:00:55 

Right. Right. That's yeah, that's great. Okay, the final scene, what an epic final scene this is. So basically, what ends up happening is we get we cut to Mary, again, we know her as Lillith. And she, I think she goes to a bar and she basically just drinks a bunch. And then the bartender who's a eunuch is basically like, he knows her called calling her Lola, this Lillith he has an idea of what's happened, you can kind of tell, and he's just trying to encourage her like, Hey, you're gonna be fine. You're gonna make it stay here as long as you like, eat this food. And she's like, No, what's the point? Like she's at, she's at, she's at rock bottom. She's at the end. And I can't remember if I've got this in the order. So correct me if you know, but I think I think that's what happens. And then she goes, or I have it in reverse. But basically, it might be reverse. She, I think she goes, Uh, yeah, I think she goes to the bar, and then she leaves the bar. And you can kind of tell that this bartender guy doesn't want her to leave, because he kind of has an idea that she might do something that he doesn't want her to do. And she just leaves anyway, she goes to a cliff edge, and she's ready to throw herself off the cliff. She's ready to just end it all. And then a dove flies by. And then she follows the duff. Do I have that right? Yeah. Is that what you remember?

David Eckl 1:02:18 

Yes. And then she see Jesus. Is that where we introduced the Jesus at the end of this?

Lance Foulis 1:02:25 

We Yeah, but it happens some other let me read this here following a suicide attempt. Lillith loses hope and her condition she notices the dove and falls all the way to the hammer, which is the bar that I was talking about. She enters the tavern. And she sits down she's like, give me a drink. And I don't remember if they fight or like if the gods like, I'm not giving you a drink, and then she's like, just give me a friggin drink. And then they pour the drink. And then she goes to take it and then as she goes to take it a hand comes like is placed on her hand. But had I right? Yes. Okay, so over top of Yeah, the hand was over the hand and then and then she's like, wait, what and she looks over. And then that's when we're in we don't know who it is. But the the facial features and everything is so well done by the actor that plays Jesus Jonathan Rooney. I looked up how to pronounce the last name it is Rumi ROUM. Ie unless the website I saw it was wrong. He but he said something like That's not for you. And then she starts one tell that happens with Lilith is like, if something is happening with this is this is my interpretation. It's not spelled out anytime. But she like sticks her fingers on her head because it's like she's getting like severe pain in the middle of her forehead. And so she'll like, have like, act like she just suddenly having a migraine, which to me is like, the demons inside of her are causing her torment. So like, it's almost like they know that the demons inside know who this person is. And then they start doing this, she starts doing this thing that she's done throughout the episode where she's holding on her forehead. You guys can't see me but I'm like acting it out. Like I have my hands on my forehead. And I'm like squinting, my eyes shut. And then she's just like, leave me alone. And then she walks out. And then as she's walking out, I think it cuts into like slow motion. It's epic cinematography, really, really well done. And then I'm pretty sure you just see Jesus in the background because it's her like, it's close up of her face, but you can kind of see behind her and you can see the guy that told her to, this isn't for you. He's standing in the doorway. And then he says Mary Wright? Yes. Mary Magdalene. Yeah, he's called her by name. And then she just stopped. She's just in shock. And then she turns around

David Eckl 1:04:43 

and sees them and then is epic. Yeah, just so well done. And just the introduction of them. Obviously, you're going through, you know, the first episode like when am I gonna see Jesus and it's like, okay, well, yeah, it's a series about Jesus. Yes. When am I gonna see him next and it's like Bam, like Mary's the first one to be introduced to him. Yeah, it's, it's great that he's like, I always think about Jesus and God being on time, like Jesus is on time where she is going to take another drink, and then puts his hand over her and says, This is not for you. Yeah. And like, what was going to happen? Like, obviously, she was going to continue doing something that she probably wouldn't want or wouldn't agree with. And now everything changes. Yeah. And that just in an introduction of him to her.

Lance Foulis 1:05:29 

Yeah. Yeah. And so like, the scene kind of closes with him quoting to her the verse, you No Fear not for I have called you by name. You are mine. Like, I'm paraphrasing, but he quotes it to her. And she just realizes, like, there's no way you should know my story. And like, then he basically like, takes her by that head or something. He he embraces her something and like, you can just tell the torments gone. The demons are done. Yeah,

David Eckl 1:05:59 

that's a good thing that you said that about, like, what she was doing and clenching her head, you know that something was going on in terms of a headache or the demons were, you know, in her body still and like, Wait, something's going on. But they knew who was there and who was in her presence. And that is just like, the visual of that was fantastic.

Lance Foulis 1:06:19 

Yeah, I literally, I think we I think Kim and I have watched season one three or four times. I don't not have tears coming. I'm not like crying or weeping. But I don't Well, I can't watch that last scene without tears. Just yeah, just go on.

David Eckl 1:06:35 

It is for Katie, nine when we watched it was like we are just glued to the TV. Like nothing else is going on around us. And it's just straight focus. You help because you're in awe. Yeah. Of what is going on? Yeah. And what this book that we are accustomed to, is showing us it's come alive. Yeah, it's come alive. It's jumped off the page in us. And we are just like, wow, we are putting two and two together. And this is fantastic. Yeah.

Lance Foulis 1:07:03 

Yeah. It's so well done. So yeah, if you haven't seen it, you definitely need to go see it. You can you can watch these apps. You can watch all of season one on Amazon Prime. I just checked out yesterday. I believe you can watch. Probably all of season one on YouTube. It's yeah,

David Eckl 1:07:19 

it's they have their own app. And it's really really cool. I felt led in watching it where they have this pay it forward. Yep. Technique. Yep. Where it's like you can watch for free. It's, there's no subscription to it. Yep. But if you want to, you can donate five bucks, 10 bucks, whatever. And pay it forward for someone else to watch it. Yep. And that is fantastic. Where I think it's going to fund future season. Exactly. I paid like 2025 bucks. And it was a donation. And I gotten 10 emails the next day saying you let someone in the Netherlands Watch this. Oh, yeah. Different language. And I was like, wow, that is really cool to be able to do it. And it's like, it could be someone that is, you know, just getting into it for the first time. It's someone that could be rewatching it Yeah, that was cool. Like that. I really, really liked that idea that they're doing that.

Lance Foulis 1:08:06 

Yeah. Yeah, that's that's really good point. It's, it's kind of funny, because I just literally kind of pointed people to Amazon Prime and YouTube, which I guess it's fine. But yeah, you can download the app on your device. You can watch all the episodes from both seasons, on the device of your choice. And you can we watched them on our laptop. You can stream them on your TV, though. There's plenty of ways to watch it. But yeah, to your point, if you want to support this show, right? Like, you don't have to pay to watch it. But if you do, I forgot, because like they are translating it into other languages and everything, just like

David Eckl 1:08:41 

50 languages. 5050 Wow, are they translating it to it's like that retreat there is just amazing. Yeah, like 50 different languages.

Lance Foulis 1:08:51 

So like, it's an international phenomenon at this point. And it is all crowd funded. So a couple interesting facts. Dallas Jenkins, the director, he was actually in Hollywood, he was up and coming like he was going to be super successful. He did a movie The resurrection of somebody or something. You can look it up Dallas, Dallas Jenkins movie. And it bombed. And he thought his career was essentially over because if if you do a movie and everybody believes in you and you do a movie, and it bombs apparently I guess you're done which I guess makes sense. But he thought was over then he had the idea to do like a short and like it was very organic how he ended up doing this but yeah, like we said he's doing they've funded you know, to Dave's point they've they've funded season three so we know we're gonna get to season three. And they're trying to get to seven seasons. So yeah, I mean, if you go watch it for free, you should definitely support it. You can get merch you they got some sweet hoodies you can get

David Eckl 1:09:51 

it was the craziest thing. Katie and I when we first watched it, we were hooked on it. Kids would go to bed we'd watch it, you know a couple episodes here and there. It was during season one of the first time we watched it and I think it was the next day. We finished season one we I went to a local ice cream place with got ice cream for the family. I turn around. And this lady behind me was wearing a chosen t shirt. Yeah, at the time. And how Mike? That is awesome. That's so cool. I just what it is sparked a conversation like Yeah, isn't that TV series? Awesome. Oh, great. Yeah. And it was just like, that is awesome. Like, I feel like I need to be supporting them and wearing a shirt. Yeah. And that would be cool. But I just felt like that was awesome. Like, what are the chances and I'm watching this right now currently in it. And I go and see someone that's wearing a shirt like that is really cool.

Lance Foulis 1:10:42 

Yeah, I 100% agree. So where we're at here now, Dave is we're an hour and 11 minutes in. So we're not going to get through the eight episodes, that's fine in in the next 20 minutes. So let's go ahead and do just like a quick for episode two, which is Shabbat, we won't go through it scene by scene. And then we'll just you can just come back and we'll do the rest of the season. Okay, in. In other iterations, so Shabbat, I'm just going to kind of look through this real quick. Let's see. So basically, yeah, we, we kind of get introduced because I've really the whole, this whole episode is about Shabbat. So we got a flashback, you know, of a time before the setting of the actual show. So again, like, years and years and years before the time period of the actual show, there is just a scene of Israelite people getting ready for Shabbat and so you can just kind of see what Shabbat might have looked like, for an Israelite family way, way, way back before Jesus. And then, basically, when we cut to our actual characters that we know some people see Mary, all in her normal situations. One thing we didn't talk about with Episode One is that Nicodemus his final conclusion, after fleeing, Mary was that only God can heal something that's going on like this. And he's teaches this to the other Pharisees because they're like, he has to explain what happened cuz he's very, like, shaken by what happened. We get to see that in a couple of scenes in a scene with his wife in the first episode that we didn't talk about. But basically, he basically presents to these people, like some people are so far gone, that only God could could do something about I, you know, that's why it failed, essentially. So one of the Pharisees basically sees Mary we know it's Mary now not Lilith is in her total right? Mind. She's just walking around the town just doing whatever

David Eckl 1:12:54 

smile on her face, you're happy as can be. Yep.

Lance Foulis 1:12:57 

And so the Pharisee that sees her, it's just like, well, what is going on? And he goes back and reports it. And then Nicodemus can't believe it. And so he goes back and then he finds her in her right mind. So what are some things that stood out to you about kind of that?

David Eckl 1:13:13 

Yeah, so go like, you know, see it, watch it in their own eyes, you know that it's that word of mouth type thing, and they wanted to go actually see it in person where they were both. I remember Nicodemus was very much so like, what is going on here? I can't believe it. There's no way that she was

Lance Foulis 1:13:30 

going away. She's in her right mind all of a sudden,

David Eckl 1:13:32 

absolutely not. And even seeing that and her like, right mindedness that, you know, you have to kind of go back to season or to the first episode to put together that what Nicodemus did was really the start of Jesus coming out to saying, hey, like, I'm here, I'm, I'm present. This is my call. This is my time. And seeing that and now with Mary and like, it's a complete 360 In terms of what she was like, it's the first episode to now or she's smile on her face. She looks happy as can be. Nothing's wrong with her. It just it's completely complete change.

Lance Foulis 1:14:09 

And refresh my memory. I feel like Jesus doesn't tell her his name. I don't think so. Because, yeah, because she gets questioned later. And she's like, I don't know who it was. But I was one way. And then after I, after he came to me, now I'm completely different. That's one of the famous lines in it, which we'll we'll kind of get to that in a second. But yeah, so I mean, I guess I'll just go ahead and say it because it's one of the parts we don't need to go through it like scene by scene, but Nicodemus eventually finds her in the city. And he calls her Lilith, and she's like, don't call me That's not my name. And then she's like, Okay, fine. And she's like, my name is Marian. So he's like, he's just very overwhelmed and wants to find out what happened because it doesn't make sense to him. Something really incredible has to have happened. And he asked her like, what happened? What's different and she's like, Somebody came in did something that's what's different. And I don't know his name, she's like it because he wants to know who this person is because he wants to find this person because it's just not making sense. And he wants to, like, genuinely he wants to know what's going on. Because at first, she doesn't want to talk to him at all, because people like him that she's encountered before, generally want nothing to do with her and haven't treated her well. So she doesn't have a good, she doesn't really want him to be around. And he's very, like, No, I just, I just want to talk, just tell me what happened. And then she's basically like, I don't know his name, I don't know who he is. But this person I encounter now and completely different. That's one of the famous lines from the chosen series. So anything else about that? Or about the episode in general that you want to mention?

David Eckl 1:15:44 

It was another kind of one of those things where, you know, we're starting to see the change that's going to come from people. Yeah. And it's really going to move through different, you know, three different people and characters that are in there. And you know, we got introduced to the fight called Five people now, there's going to be more mixings of more people throughout what we're going to see in here and just like what Nicodemus saw, and now what he's telling people, is, you know, hey, only God can do these things. Now. Now he's saying that, okay, well, what is he going to start doing? You know, and what is he What is His ministry and now change to from what he saw. And it's that kind of like one main staple that he saw now with Mary walking around is that now his whole premise is going to change because of this one interaction as one change where it's like something like that happens to you. That's all you want to talk about. Right now. That's the talk of the town. Let's talk about the Pharisees. Now what is going to change with them is going to be something that we're really going to look forward to throughout this whole series.

Lance Foulis 1:16:45 

Yes, yes. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's very all everything you just said is very, very, very well put. But yeah, the things that he say that when he's saying like, only God can heal this person and then then this person is clearly in our white right mind. And Nicodemus has been a really interesting character they've been setting up because he is at his station for a good reason. He does know a lot of things, but you can just tell there's just there's wonder. In him when he talks about things he he almost like comes across as like, I know a lot but I really don't know anything. And like, what if God is just, he's like, what we know. But what if he's, what if he's a lot different to what if? What if we've only scratched the surface? Like the things that he's kind of curious about and then how this interaction with Mary kind of like sparks something when he knows that when he sees that she's okay, then it's almost like he's not, he's not talking about in thinking about God in academic sense anymore. It's like a what he's like talking and thinking about God and who God could be in like, the state of wonder and like, almost like, giddy like a kid, like, oh my gosh, like, this is a miracle. That's one thing that they say like, this is definitely a miracle like what happened. And that's like a word that has more meaning than wood for you. And I, you can kind of tell like, when they say the word miracle that has something to do, like in their faith, it has something to do with God like something that's impossible that you witnessed it, and you can't believe that it just happened. But it did just happen in front of your face. And it's that kind of like, level of like, all that you get from him. And yeah, you can kind of just start seeing things changing for him. As as Marissa has clearly had major changes, right? I think

David Eckl 1:18:30 

you probably have heard this term before. But Jesus has flipped the script in the script back then. And that's what it was. Nicodemus was truly by the law of the time and now that curiosity that spark in him is like, Wait, what is going on here? And it completely changes like I think about the tables, you know, the temple being overturned, like that's what that's what is happening everything is just being overturned in this whole new quote unquote, wave is coming in of change and restoration in life. And it's like, it's here, you know, they talked about it and even what we hear from Nicodemus is that something is coming well is this Jesus that that is talked about in the book of the coming of the Son is the time now Yeah, and that's that spark that gives you know the show some of that life to saying like, Oh, here Here comes you know, wheels are turning Yeah, well are getting curious and interested in it's, it's alive, and it kind of jumps off the screen at you. You kind of feel like I'm excited talking about right now. Yeah, just reliving it like it's great. It's great. I want to watch the episode two again. Yeah, no, it's it's great. You know, it gives you that that reason for hope and restoration.

Lance Foulis 1:19:36 

Yeah, that's actually very, very well put. So I guess some of the other things that kind of happen is Simon and well, Matthew basically goes to the magistrate Quintus and basically talks to the magistrate is like, I don't think you should be trusting this guy. Is it true that you're even working with this guy and the magistrate is like, Wait, who? Oh, yeah, yeah, I like He's he is doing something for me. And then basically what we find out is that Simon agreed to find out so like we in the very first episode when Quintus this magistrate goes to Nicodemus, he's like, You need to make people stop fishing on Sabbath. I think it's because they're not getting tax money from it something to that effect, or they're not Rome, Rome wants to be in control where they're not in control that type of a thing. So we figured out as Simon has gotten himself into some kind of arrangement with this Quintus guy, where he's going to figure out who is fishing on Shabbat, and then he's gonna turn them over, he's gonna, he's gonna go to Quintus and be like, I figured out who it is, it's these people, so you can throw him in jail, and then he's gonna get his taxes taken care of, or something like that. It's like this arrangement. So it's a very seedy arrangement. And I believe in this episode. Let me just double check. Yep, yep. He Simon tells his brother Andrew, like, look, I did this arrangement. And because Andrew is like, wait, what arrangement did you have? And then Simon tells his brother Andrew, like, I'm going to figure out who's doing this. And and then Andrew is furious because he's like, these are these are own people that you're going to turn over to Rome. And then in his interaction with Quintus. Matthew is like, you shouldn't be trusting this guy, Simon. And then the magistrate is like, fairpoint. Okay, take this journal, and follow Simon around in report to me by writing down what's happening. And then come tell me if what you find and then we'll figure it out. And that way, if he's, if Simon doesn't deliver, I'll get him. If Simon does deliver, then I win. So he basically, the magistrate sets itself up in a win win. So it's

David Eckl 1:21:48 

almost like Simon's making a deal with the devil. Yes, you know, he's already in one foot deep. He's now going well, I'm gonna jump in full into this, you know, situation. And it's like, he's getting himself in a super hard place. Yeah, it's like, it's one of those things. It's like, I don't know if you want to do that. But you know, as it turns out, what will happen, but it was interesting to see just like the interaction and the tense, you know, talking, it's another one of those things that we have in the back of our mind that okay, now that's going on to let's watch what Matthew is going to do and right in his ledger, and be that kind of like, quote, unquote, spy. So let's see. Yeah, it's gonna be doing. Yeah. Yeah. And

Lance Foulis 1:22:27 

it's really interesting. Like, I think you've alluded to this throughout the podcast, too. But like, what you put yourself into somebody situations, you could make a decision that you wouldn't necessarily make, and maybe it's a negative decision. And kind of what we're getting the sense of, at this point is like, okay, Simon's made a couple of bad decisions. And now you kind of get the real feeling like, Okay, now he's in over his head, he made a couple of compromises that he probably shouldn't have made. And now he can't get out of the pickle he's in, there's no way out. And he doesn't want to necessarily turn people in, but he doesn't really have a choice. And so like, just the pickle that he's in, has, has gone from like what we saw in the first episode to like, oh, it's really, he's really in over his head. He's really in trouble.

David Eckl 1:23:16 

Yeah, it's, it's a little unsettling, especially what we see with Eden and what she is going to be, you know, kind of curious in terms of what she or what he's doing, it's going to be it's, it's, it's interesting. It's just, the best way to put it is I feel like he is already off the track and he's now going further off the track to make you know, away right, and what turns out to be is, you know, the only way to get back to it is to follow Jesus but you know, he's He's way out. Oh, yeah, he's

Lance Foulis 1:23:49 

way gone. He's way gone. And

David Eckl 1:23:51 

it's needs a miracle to be able to come back into into the fold. But yep, he's got a lot going against him and a lot going for him.

Lance Foulis 1:24:00 

He they're setting they're setting his story up really well. So really, the the last couple things to mention about episode two, from my perspective is kind of goes along. So it was really like, what's happening is like, we got Matthew Simon and Andrew we kind of got their thing going on. And we have Mary Nicodemus, and what's kind of going on with them. So Nicodemus gets called or I don't know if that's the right word, but there's somebody above him in again in this hierarchy of Israelite religious orders. This name of this character, bet din, I'm not even saying that up that Dean. That's how they set up that Dean. I think I have that right. But anyway, it's this guy who's important. So Nicodemus gets called into a court. That's the best way I can put it. He gets called into like a court room, which is actually I think, maybe it's a tent. I don't remember. But there's a guy sitting and it's the guy that I just mentioned, that Dean and basically CLAY it's come out that a miracles happen I think was Shmi well went to this this guy and he reports a miracle and and and that makes it a big deal so then all these people have to come in and give testimony and everything. So Nicodemus comes in and it's like, so so to your own account, Nicodemus, there was a girl that wasn't you nothing could be done and then you guys have seen her in the right mind. And so that therefore it's a miracle. Is that right? And And Nicodemus is like, let's not jump to any conclusions, because we don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill. So Nicodemus is like, let me investigate what happened myself, let me go talk to this person myself. She knows me she probably more comfortable than if we brought her in here. And I'll question her that might scare off or something like that. And that's what basically gets Nicodemus to go talk to Mary in the way that I just described. So it's kind of making like, things are happening, like you can't marry getting healed isn't just Mary getting healed. There's a lot of other things that that kind of affected. And so you can see that it's causing like a bit of a stir, I guess, did you have any, like a ripple effect or ripple effect?

David Eckl 1:26:10 

So what is going on? And you'd have to almost assume that everything before, this is kind of you know, people are just going about their own business. None of this is happening. And now all of a sudden, you have this Mary situation that comes up, you have people seeing it, you have people seen her walk around the streets, like, Wait, what happened here? And that it's that prick again, where it's like, you know that thing in your mind? It's like, Wait, what happened? Like, what's going on with this girl? Something is up. Yeah. And it's that intrigue, you know, for more of what's going on? And it's like, huh, let's watch her. And let's see what's going on. And they're always in there going back and asking, Well, what did you do in that room? Like, did you do anything? Was anyone else there? They're kind of questioning the process and what had gone on to be able to document it. Yeah, to be able to write it down and have a story about it. Which is,

Lance Foulis 1:27:00 

because it really it does you kind of get the sense of that what they ultimately want is the truth. Yes. But it's almost like they want to be in control. So they don't want

David Eckl 1:27:11 

that stuff to happen. Like they just want someone to go there and Hey, say

Lance Foulis 1:27:15 

unless it was them. If they had had it happen, then it probably good. But you get the sense that because Nicodemus was unsuccessful, that means that they don't know what's going on. And so therefore, they want to know the truth to know what's going on so that there's something that's not out of their control. 100% kind of feeling I think I got Yes, I completely agree. Okay, so then really the close of this episode is the Shabbat dinners is really interesting, because, I mean, they call it out right here that there's four different Shabbat dinners. So Mary this whole time, and there's almost dropped my battery charger for it is gonna kill me. That's hilarious. I didn't mean to do that soundbite but that is almost kind of appropriate. That's from the episode with Charles harder than marine season one. He did some he wasn't supposed to do in boot camp. And the the sergeant found them out and oh, that's a really fun soundbite. This is it is he's gonna kill me. So yeah, like literally the cord just hit that button. Just funny that that happened. Anyway. So Mary, throughout this episode, you can tell she's getting ready to do a Shabbat dinner and a Shabbat dinner is important, like weekly event where you're getting ready for Shabbat and Shabbat is the day where you don't work. We know it as a Sunday. Yes. And so she's getting ready to prepare Shabbat dinner. And the thing is like you have to do it a certain way. There's specific rituals and things that you want to do for your Shabbat dinner. So she's inviting different people that she knows to come over to her place and have a Shabbat dinner with her. And then Nicodemus he's getting to, you can have a completely different Shabbat dinner. And he's like the main guy like leading the Shabbat dinner, but then there's all these influential people that are going to show up and it's very fascinating that kind of Shabbat dinner he's going to have and he's going through his whole like, quote, coming to Jesus type moment. That's all in quotes. But he's like thinking he's questioning different things. He doesn't know what to think about this thing with Mary who's like, good and like he wasn't able to do anything. But clearly she's in her right mind. How is she in her right mind. And he's wrestling with that. And meanwhile, his wife is just not interested at all. In him questioning things. She just wants to have her fancy Shabbat dinner. And let's see Oh, and then we have Simon and Peter, or Simon and Andrew and eaten they're having a Shabbat dinner. And then who's the fourth year you can say whatever you want to if you want to just jump in there.

David Eckl 1:29:41 

I think just the importance of the Shabbat dinner like it's the importance of the day but then also to celebrate bringing together what we see what they can Demas, your family members, but then also marry, you know, showing the importance of what that weekly dinner was and preparing it the right way and just that ritual type of weekend. Yeah, activity where it was a the day's important, but it's just as important as having this dinner, and really focusing on getting your mind right and body right throughout the week by having on this day. And that to me when I was watching it like just the importance of what the Sabbath is, I kind of put two and two together of like, wow, there's also some importance back in our own lives to be able to do this on our own situation and stance, where it's like, have a family dinner, have you know, friends over, do that kind of dinner and break bread and prepare it the right way, and celebrate what were called to do. So seeing this in here and the importance of what Mary did, and even with Simon and Peter and or Simon Peter, and then also Andrew, and Eden is like, Okay, that was cool to bring it all together, and have that weekly type thing and showing that and the importance of breaking bread together.

Lance Foulis 1:30:54 

Yeah. Yeah. The Yeah, the community aspect of it is really interesting. Community and Family because like, you have the family, Andrew and Simon and Eden, they're doing it as a family because I think it was just the three of them having their dinner.

David Eckl 1:31:10 

Don't you see Jesus can't like Jesus comes into Mary's yes to Mary's yeah, that's,

Lance Foulis 1:31:15 

that's the amazing closure. And then the fourth that I forgot about was actually Matthew. So he prepares something. And then he walks to, we don't know what he's doing. But he walks to a house and he starts looking at what's going on. And we figure out that his parents, so you find out that he isn't welcome. But he still knows what Shabbat is, he knows what Shabbat dinner is. And he ends up seeing his family from a distance he won't go. So you're wondering kind of okay, why do they not accept him? Probably not. That's kind of a feeling like you get. And then he basically just sits down and has his own food. And that's when we get introduced to the dog. This, I don't think he ever gets it. I don't think this dog ever gets a name. But this dog basically just becomes Matthew's dog. His dog finds Matthew and is following him around. And I guess maybe they share of Shabbat meal together. But that's, that's a fascinating another one, because then it's this, this kind of Outcast type of a person who still knows that he is in this community. But he's also aware, meaning the Israelite community, but also he's not welcomed in the community. And now we find out he's not seemingly not welcomed in his own family. Right, which is a really interesting contrast from the other. And it kind of makes gives you a little bit more of a gives you some feeling, I guess, maybe for Matthew, and what else must be going on in his story?

David Eckl 1:32:40 

Yeah, it was interesting to see, obviously, you know, what he chose to do with his career, to choose Rome over his faith. And now because of that, he is very much so kind of this isolated individual who really doesn't have a place other than just spending time with himself, the dog kind of befriends them in it, and when he goes through the city when he's working Roman guards always with him, and it's like, okay, you know, he's really that Outcast type of person. Yes, you know, you kind of feel your heart kind of gets a little tug, you know, towards them. It's like, Man, I feel bad that he made this decision. Sure. He's super smart. He's got, you know, like you said earlier, the math skills, he's doing all that together, you know, behind the scenes, and it's like, I feel sorry for him that he chose this route. But obviously, God's going to use them in a way that's going to, you know, bring glory to Him. It's, but it's interesting to see just what he chose to do to kind of disown his family, the people around them and be that tax collector for the people in the city.

Lance Foulis 1:33:39 

Yeah, it's an interesting take. Because like, throughout the throughout what we have seen so far, you can see the desperate situation that Simon's in you can see the desperate situation that Andrew is in, and it's all about, like, I need more, I'm gonna I'm gonna lose it. And then Matthew is in a completely different situation, because he's got all these resources. He's got the nice place, he's got the nice outfit. He doesn't seem to super care about it. He's got like, super expensive sandals, he's got the job he's got his life is kind of in order, you can kind of tell he's got an order to his life. But seeing him on Shabbat, you can kind of tell like, he's so aware, even with all that he has in, in comparison to what the other characters that we know. He's got a lot but he also has lost a lot. And you kind of get that sense. Yeah, he's

David Eckl 1:34:28 

he's broken outside of his work. What he's doing during the day, where at night, weekends, Shabbat, he's very much lonely. You know, he doesn't have much going on. Yep. For him. And it's sad. Yeah. Is that

Lance Foulis 1:34:43 

Yeah. And then, the final thing that happens, which you alluded to is Mary is having her Shabbat and she's not. You can just tell she doesn't really know what she's doing. She's just doing it as, as best as she can. Because you're seeing like Nicodemus is Shabbat and he's because you're supposed to be sight and do all these different things. There's formal things to do. There's formal things that you're supposed to serve, there's things that you're supposed to do. So there's like, there's a whole like, ceremony to it. And there's a specific way of doing things. And you can kind of tell she doesn't know what she's doing. But she's doing as best she can. She just invited a couple of random people that she knows her as the blind woman who comes with the kind of lame beggar guy, they kind of show up together. And then there's like one or two other people, and then one seat is open. And then I think she says something that, like, you're supposed to have an open seat for Elijah, or there's something that she says, like, you're supposed to have an open seat, and then there's a knock at the door. And she gets up and she goes and answers the door. And then she's face to face with the guy. She had no, his name still, she's face to face with a guy that fixed her up seemingly that she met and she was one way now she's completely different. And then he walks right in, he takes that seat. There is something about that. I don't remember if I got that, right. But she was like, I was told when I was a little girl that we were supposed to leave the seat open for something. And then he walks in. He takes that seat seat. And there's something symbolic about that. I just can't remember.

David Eckl 1:36:10 

The I Am the I am that person. Yeah, that is just like you watch that you kind of get a little Shigella chills? Yeah. Like, whoa, like that was? That was cool. Yeah, that was awesome. And again, you put that face to the name. Now again, now we're seeing him again. In episode tune. It's like,

Lance Foulis 1:36:28 

and it's not until the end of the episode. Yeah, once again, once again, Jesus does not have a key part until the very end. But then when he takes the seat, I think they should I think Mary was like, this is the person that I told you about that helped me and they're like, oh, what's your name? He's like, I'm Jesus of Nazareth. And then the I think it was the beggar dude says something like Nazareth Can anything good come of Nazareth, which is a famously quoted lines in Scripture, because Nazareth, Nazareth was considered a less than great place. And nobody expected the Messiah of God to come from a place like that. They always expected him to come from a place of more notoriety. So it was just fun, fun little connections for people. Yes,

David Eckl 1:37:09 

I know, you're paying attention to everything that's going on in the episode. But then like, when you see Jesus and him talking, and what he's gonna say you're like, I don't know, it's, it's tenfold what you're gonna listen to try to like, pick out from it. It's awesome. Yeah, I'm so like, you know, hyped up to hear what he has to say. Because, yeah, you know, you know, the words that he's spoken, but you want to hear them from his mouth from his mouth. Yeah.

Lance Foulis 1:37:31 

Because I mean, it's funny because like, Jesus shows up, and like, you've, if you've read the Bible, you've read the gospels. And so you've read the stories. You've heard the stories of what Jesus did and, and what he said and how he said it. And you've probably heard people, like preachers talk about what Jesus said and why he said it. So like, the store, the series does a really good job of like owning its research and had I mean, they've had like, rabbis, they've had academics, theologians, all these people kind of come in and give their two cents on what was going on in the backgrounds during the Gospels and what Jesus would have been doing and why he would have been doing it and the depth of meaning behind some of the things that he did that you wouldn't know unless you had a more deeper understanding. So like, the show does a really good job of having Jesus do stuff and probably the fashion that he did it. And the reasons behind why he just said what he said, and like, if you're not paying attention, you'll miss something. And there's something that when Jesus is saying something, when the that act, and the actor does a fantastic job of portraying Jesus, I think really brings the character to life. But there's something about it where yeah, like, he says something if something happens, you get little goosebumps on Yeah. And even if you're not like you and I were we grew up like learning this kind of stuff. I think that there's definitely something for you there because she says kind of this larger than life. Character. Yeah,

David Eckl 1:38:59 

he's he's so good with his words, or He's witty, and he's able to kind of give this like, you know, one or two or three word response that's just captivating. Yes, that is like, Whoa, he said that. Yeah, that is amazing. Like, even like when he sat down, I believe he said, I am. Like, even in those words, it's like, I am like,

Lance Foulis 1:39:20 

I never put that together until you said that that is so powerful. Yeah.

David Eckl 1:39:23 

But like even the larger thing is, I forgot that that si was open forum and hearing that it's like wow, like that is powerful. Yeah. So powerful.

Lance Foulis 1:39:33 

Yeah, they do such a good job. And like, again, I can't wait for season three but so at this point, we're at an an hour and 40 minutes in so this is a long podcast, and we've only got I don't know why I thought we would get through like all the episodes, but there there's just a lot to talk about. So I'll have David back and we'll we'll talk about more chosen chosen episodes and chosen review. But I just I think my final thoughts and then I'll let you kind of Say your final thoughts, but I'll go first so you can think about what your final thoughts are. But yeah, I mean, like the series is just so exceptionally well done. It's very accessible. No matter who you are, no matter your background, there's a lot of things that you can stream and a lot of things that you watch. I, Natalie and I talked about it. So we worked with net David and I worked with with Natalie, way back. So the podcast with Natalie Baldwin, when we talk about being in the same department and doing a lot of stuff, David was in that office with us, we were doing a lot of the same things. And Natalie and I talked about watching Game of Thrones. And that show is definitely not for kids. It's fair is for a very mature audience. And I watched it. And it's got stuff in there. That's really not not great. Anyway, that series ended. And it was so disappointing how it ended. It was not well done. But you know, it, it is what it is. But this isn't like that kind of a show, it's accessible, there's nothing that you're going to see that you're going to be like, No, I could have probably probably would have been nice if I just never seen that in my life. Right? Or been exposed to that in my life, that probably wasn't the best thing. You're not gonna get that from this series. But it's a really well done series. The characters are excellent, the character development is excellent. It's very historical. If you do read the Bible, or if you ever did read the Bible, or you were ever curious about the life of Jesus, it would be fascinating to go who read through the gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and then bits of x. And then watch this series, then watch that because it does, you mentioned that it really makes that stuff that you read come to life. And it makes you I always, I always feel more in awe. When I watch it about all of the things that I've read over over the Bible, not just even the Gospels or stuff in the Old Testament, they bring up they even have a Moses is in the beginning of one of the episodes. And you don't know it's him, right? Like what we've mentioned, it's just a scene. It's the two guys and they're doing something and then something happens like, Oh, this is Moses. Okay. Oh, and this is Joshua. Oh, that's kind of cool. So it's not just the gospels that kind of come to life, it's really the Bible like end to end, in a lot of ways. So anyway, go check it out. It's free. Pay it forward, I didn't know that you would get an email that you just gave the show to somebody. So I would recommend I clearly need to do that. But yeah, great series, I highly recommend it. Like I said, this is a bonus episode. I kind of want to try doing a review. Clearly, I'll need to condense future reviews. But yeah, David, what are your What are your final thoughts, man,

David Eckl 1:42:47 

season one through what they're going to do season seven will cover truly the whole New Testament from really the Gospels into Jesus dying. And but I do appreciate the flashbacks and flash forwards, if you will, like talking about Moses and seeing Joshua, early on. Like that, to me is just that extra level where you know, talked about this New Testament, that new coming of this new savior. Okay, we hear that in the Old Testament, it's coming in the New Testament, I love those beginning parts where they kind of flashback like we talked about, yeah, that really kind of helps paint the picture of what's going on what this prophecy is coming true. And right. I mean, it's one of those shows that I watch that you can continue watching, you couldn't get tired of watching. Yeah, you know, and to your point even to like, if you're at least somewhat interested, or you have some kind of, you know, ensure like you're interested in a piece of it, you could watch you know, the first episode, and be like, wow, you know, I'm interested in knowing more, you know, I'm kind of intrigued, I want to follow a little bit more into it. You know, it's, it's something that you can watch on the go, it's something you watch at home with your family, you can, you know, listen to it or watch it anywhere you so please and it's one of the things that you know, even for someone that might not be a believer in their life getting into it, it's something that you know, could really spark this whole movement in their life where they're like, Wow, I've always wanted to know what Jesus had to say or I've always kind of had that in the back of my mind. And that thought for me, it's like, you know, we are I would say quote unquote, maybe a seasoned Christian where we know you know, things that we're talking about, but someone that might not have that familiarity upfront. Hearing that and having them watch this series could give them a very good deep dive into what the Bible is talking about. And that is so uplifting that it could be any walk of life that you're in. You're basically you know, getting into this and seeing what was happening 2000 years ago and putting those pieces together and that is that is so rich that here we are in 2022 and we're able to watch you know this on TV and being able to see the words that You know, we have read for a very long time pop out page and seeing that it's just unbelievable. Yeah, unbelievable and it's you know, it's it's shot really well theatrics are really well done I appreciate just the the whole package that they have put together that you know, it's it's captivating for someone that's very like you know a critic on the video and reviews and those kinds of things it's done in 4k It's it's a beautiful picture it's yeah, it's real. It's not you know, is

Lance Foulis 1:45:27 

it done in 4k? I believe so. I didn't know we don't have I need to still need to get a 4k TV.

David Eckl 1:45:31 

Well, I think if you watch on your maybe not your MacBook but

Lance Foulis 1:45:35 

yeah, no, no, these have like crazy for kids. But it's so that's awesome.

David Eckl 1:45:39 

So well don't even the sound like you hear somebody sound like that's something I want to talk about either but the sound of it and just all of it is just it the package is fantastic. I would highly recommend it to anyone that hasn't seen it that would want to watch it to want to go through it. It's it's something you can't miss if you're a Christian or want to be Christian or just at least interested. Yeah, story of Jesus.

Lance Foulis 1:46:06 

Curious about the story of Jesus. So this will definitely get it for a Yeah, I mean, I my own personal story is pretty complicated. I grew up in the church. And then in my 20s I had some really dark nights of the soul difficult things that I went through and I I kind of was like, I don't want anything to do with that. For years. I would say I'd really don't want anything to do with that. And then slowly i i would say it. I mean that's a story for a completely other day. But I think it was really like Jesus who he is who he embodies really kind of pulled me pull me back to himself. I think so. I really liked this series because it again, it brings that to life. So anyway, we are well past time. So we'll have you back. We will finish and do some more. So thanks for coming on the podcast, sir. And thanks everybody for listening.

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