- Ep. 40: Kim Siever and our Covenant of Zion
Kim Siever is a Canadian LDS father and journalist who has arthritis, asthma and ADHD.
In this interview, Serena and Katie discuss Kim's experience with how the concept and focus of "reverence" in the church affects his worship as a person with ADHD, his diagnosis journey, the idea of sensory rooms at church and the inherent problems of how "the mother's lounge" is named and designed into our chapels, and how to fulfill our covenant to build up Zion. He also shares a brief history of the white supremacist movement hidden within Ottawa's blockades and protests.
You can support Kim by following his news site- kimsiever.ca - and his social media. He is on all platforms under Kim Siever.51m | Mar 1, 2022
- Ep. 39: Maggie Slighte - "Becoming the Person I'm Meant to Be"
This is a follow-up interview with Maggie Slighte, whose first interview we released two weeks ago!
Maggie Slighte (she/her, they/them) is a neurodivergent and disabled, writer, Tiktok creator, DID system, and former Mormon. In this interview, we find out why Maggie decided to remove their records from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and how that journey really was a long time coming. We discuss cognitive dissonance, OCD and religious scrupulosity, and Maggie's queer identity. This conversation highlights how traumatizing it can sometimes be for multiply marginalized and neurodivergent people to simply exist in the Church.
At wHoly Human, we are so proud to know Maggie, and fully support her as her spiritual journey continues to grow outside of the Church!
Important note: Maggie is currently looking for an agent for their upcoming memoir, The Car That Ran on Prayers! Please get in touch if you have any leads!
MaggieSlighte.com Maggie's personal website
@neurodivergentgranny on TikTok
Slightely Maggie (a podcast and a YouTube vlog)
MyMesBlog.com, sharing their experience with multiplicity/DID
wHoly Human Links:51m | Feb 15, 2022
- Ep. 38: Maggie Slighte, p. 1 - Rebel for God
Today we will be sharing the conversation we had with Maggie Slighte back in 2021. Maggie is well known in the Mormon podcasting community, as one-fourth of the now-concluded podcast, Strangers No More, which joined wHoly Human in the Dialogue Podcast Network in 2021.
But Maggie's creative juices haven't stopped flowing! They are a rebel, a community builder, and an online activist. She currently runs Slightely Maggie (a podcast and a YouTube vlog) and MyMesBlog.com, sharing their experience with multiplicity/DID. Maggie can also be found on TikTok as @neurodivergentgranny!
It took some time for us to release this episode into the world, and a lot has changed in Maggie's life since we had this interview. In lieu of these important updates, we plan on releasing a second part to this interview in the next few weeks to check back in with Maggie and learn from them.
wHoly Human Links:54m | Jan 31, 2022
- Ep. 37: Early Disabled Saints and How to Find Them
wHoly Human is proud to join with Professor Bryce Fifield in this bonus episode to share stories of early disabled saints. Fifield is a professor of Special Education and Rehabilitation at Utah State University. His career within the disability studies field spans decades. He has also had many callings in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but his greatest calling in life has been that of father, grandfather and husband.
In this episode he shares the extensive research he has done into finding the names and stories of early disabled saints in church history. He also shares how he found these names, and gives resources for learning more about early disabled saints.54m | Jan 1, 2022
- Ep. 36: Officially Declaring a Reason to Mourn
Here, Serena and Katie cover Doctrine and Covenants 137–138, and Official Declarations 1 and 2. This will be their last Come Follow Me of the year, but not their last episode release of the year. Stay tuned for more wHoly Human content!1h 9m | Dec 16, 2021
- Ep. 35: Mourning in "Liberty" - D&C 133-136
Two weeks' worth of LDS Come Follow Me study and commentary, covering Doctrine & Covenants Sections 133-136.
In this episode, we deepen the conversation around 19th century Mormon polygamy and disability/neurodivergency. We mention various instances of disabled and neurodivergent people in polygamous relationships, and discuss how that relationship style worked to either aid or disadvantage the disabled/neurodivergent person.
We reiterate the fact that just because a person has a specific disability or neurodivergence, it does not make them an automatically good person; we can hold space for disability/neurodiversity representation while also holding people accountable for the harm they've caused others.
This is especially true when discussing Brigham Young and both his eschewment of tradition (a neurodivergent trait) and the fact that he promoted eugenic, ableist rhetoric around Mormonism, as well as his complicity in the enslavement of indigenous people.
Lastly, we bring Emma Smith to the forefront during our discussion of Joseph Smith's martyrdom, as we read the blessing she requested from Joseph right before he went to Carthage Jail. We correlate the mourning of the LDS church after Joseph's death with the expression of mourning of Black people in America during Black Lives Matter. The spilling of innocent blood is therefore something that Mormons should especially resonate with.
CW: In this episode, we touch on eugenics, enslavement, and anti-Black racism.56m | Nov 26, 2021
- Ep. 34: BONUS - We Need To Talk About How We Talk About Polygamy
A solo episode by Serena, where she breaks down how one cannot speak about polygamy without also speaking about how it is shaped by and connected to disability, neurodiversity and queerness.
If we only talk about the negative aspects of 19th century Mormon polygamy, while talking about both negative and positive aspects of Mormon monogamy, then we are not taking an equitable approach to polygamy as a relationship style/structure. And when the history of polygamy is also shaped by disability, and when neurodivergent and queer people are highly represented in modern day nonmonogamy, the way we talk about polygamy matters.
Those of us in the progressive Mormon sphere are trying to build a bridge from Mormon history and doctrine to those of us who have historically been excluded and even expelled from Mormonism. If the bridge purports to lead towards inclusion of neurodivergent, disabled, and queer people, then should it not consider our viewpoints while reimagining and analyzing our collective Mormon history? How can you talk about polygamy - literally, marriage to more than one person - without centering love? How can you talk about polygamy, a “deviant” relationship style, without centering the people whom modern Mormonism considers deviant, meaning queer and neurodivergent people?
If we believe that “love is love”, and that “we are here and we are queer!” are true principles when it comes to BYU students protesting homophobic policies at the Church administrative building in downtown SLC, then those principles are also true when people engage in nonmonogamous relationships.1h 3m | Nov 13, 2021
- Ep. 33: Desire, Logic and Personal Revelation - D+C 125-132
Two weeks worth of Come Follow Me covering D+C 125 through 132.
In this episode, Serena and Katie discuss how privilege plays a role in the gathering of the saints despite desire (or lack of), the circumstances around Brigham Young's call to stay with his family, the nuanced space Joseph Smith and disabled people today dwell in in regards to trials, real life policies in regards to temple attendance and baptisms for the dead who are deemed "not accountable" during their lives on earth, considering people with psychosis when discussing angelic or other spirit visitations, the logic of feeling comfort in suffering with prophets, when personal revelation conflicts with prophetic teachings, and brief insights on polygamy.
Watch out for a bonus episode that will be coming out this Thursday (11/11) with more thoughts and information on polygamy, from a queer, disabled, neurodivergent perspective.57m | Nov 9, 2021
- Ep. 32: Privilege in the Very Jaws of Hell - D&C 121-124
Two weeks of LDS Come Follow Me commentary, covering Doctrine & Covenants sections 121 through 124.
In this episode, we provide context for the circumstances that led to Joseph Smith's imprisonment in Liberty Jail, and explain that the tension between non-Mormons and members of the Church in Missouri at the time was not unilateral. Violence was high on both sides, and that is something we need to acknowledge to move forward honestly in our faith.
We go on to discuss how we should approach the privilege and marginalization of other people, especially when we're going through a hard time ourselves. Is there a "right" approach, or do certain approaches simply not work at certain times? We make a connection between the verses discussing suffering and the suffering of disabled people during the pandemic.
Finally, we bring it back to disability by sharing some stories of disabled, Deaf, and neurodivergent people all around the world who have been impacted by COVID-19 disproportionately. We share these stories to point out the diversity of disabled experiences, but strongly encourage our followers to seek out and listen to the experiences of disabled people in their own congregations, neighborhoods, and communities.
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Read full transcripts on our site: https://www.wholyhumanpodcast.com/57m | Oct 24, 2021
- Ep. 31: A Blind High Councillor and Disability Tithes - D&C 111-120
Two weeks' worth of LDS Come Follow Me study, covering Doctrine & Covenants Sections 111 through 120.
In this episode we discuss how Thomas Marsh left the LDS Church in 1838 for legitimate (non-cow-milk-related) reasons and what that teaches us about allyship, and what it means to "arise and sit down, and shake off the dust."
We introduce another disabled person from LDS church history, Oliver Granger, who was mostly blind, a good friend of Joseph Smith's, and served in many important positions in the early church. His story is a remarkable example of how disabled people can and should be in leadership positions in the church nowadays.
Finally, we delve into the issues surrounding tithing and disability, especially when a disabled member of the Church is on government disability benefits. Many people are unaware that the Church cannot require disabled people to pay tithing on government benefits for legal reasons, and yet many disabled people are still being pressured to do so, and shamed and excluded if they don't.1h 3m | Oct 11, 2021
- Ep. 30: Appendages, Auxiliaries, & Accessibility
Two weeks' worth of LDS Come Follow Me commentary, discussing Doctrine & Covenants Sections 106-110.
In this episode, we highlight the importance of intersectionality, and how disability and neurodivergence often come last in intersectional discussions. We talk about how behavioral expectations in 19th century Mormon meetings didn't allow for disabled and neurodivergent people to be present and involved in their own way.
We discover another instance of how anti-blackness was intertwined with the LDS Church back in the 1830s, and how it was used to alienate dissenters from the Church.
Some other questions from the text we discuss: How much power does someone hold in the church if they hold an "auxiliary" position without the priesthood? What does it mean to us as disabled people to read how Adam and his generation lived for hundreds of years?
Finally, we both rejoice and lament in the language of the dedicatory prayer of the Kirtland, Ohio temple in Section 109.1h 11m | Sep 28, 2021
- Ep. 29: When Violent Words Spur Violent Actions
Serena and Katie of wHoly Human cover two weeks' worth of Come Follow Me in this episode- Doctrine and Covenants 98-105.
In this episode, they discuss Elder Holland's recent talk given at BYU, which has had harmful affects on LGBTQ+ people and their allies (https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/elder-jeffrey-r-holland-2021-byu-university-conference).
They also discuss forgiveness, repentance, reparations, moving forward in the midst of persecution, meekness and solemnity of heart, ableist metaphors, the early saints' anti-racism and their backtracking off it, Camp Zion, and thoughts on the phrase "everything happens for a reason."52m | Sep 13, 2021
- Ep. 28: Ode to Frederick G. Williams
Two weeks' worth of Come Follow Me study, covering Doctrine & Covenants 93-97.
In this episode, we start by sharing the recent LDS First Presidency announcement regarding COVID-19 precautions for members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and offering our commentary on it.
Going into our scripture study, we start off by discussing what it means to "grow from grace to grace" as disabled and neurodivergent people, and how opposite tensions can lead to further discovery of knowledge. We discuss how the union of the body and spirit to equal the soul is the antidote for earthly self-betrayal.
Finally, we introduce Frederick G. Williams as a disabled man and a progressive physician in his own right, examining his life and his work from a disability and neurodiversity perspective.1h 7m | Aug 30, 2021
- Ep. 27: Word of Wisdom - For Whom?
Two weeks' worth of Come Follow Me study, covering Doctrine & Covenants 88-92.
In this episode, we start by sharing information on how to order customized garments, for those in need of that resource. We also correct information we shared in Episode 25 about The Indian Placement Program, using Indian Country Today's website as our resource.
We then jump into our studies of the scriptures, and discuss "celestial" bodies and the harms of ranking bodies, the parable of the workers in the field and how the Lord glories in coming to us in our own time, how unique and important each of us are to God within and despite the vastness of the creation, the strain between calls for resisting idolatry vs a working mindset and capitalism within the church and the history of that, and we end our discussion with a break down of the history and canonized text of the Word of Wisdom.1h 14m | Aug 17, 2021
- Ep. 26: Light Unto Every Being
Two weeks' worth of Come Follow Me study, covering Doctrine & Covenants 84-87.
In this episode, we celebrate a verse in section 84 which affirms that godly knowledge and influence is sent to every human on Earth, regardless of race, religion, neurotype, disability, country, gender, sexual orientation, and more. We deliberate on whether the Come Follow Me manual lives up to the scripture's potential for inclusiveness, and how long it has to go to fulfill that potential. We talk about "sin" in the "world" and how that has been used in Church culture to vilify marginalized people, especially neurodivergent people, by falsely assuming that "progress" and "growth" is only in one, linear direction, rather than expansive and individual. Finally, when talking about Joseph Smith's prophecy of the Civil War, we remind our followers that slavery still exists in the United States via a loophole in the 13th Amendment, and exhort everyone to continue to learn about issues of slavery, racism, and policing.1h 3m | Aug 2, 2021
- Ep. 25: "Creatures" and Old Stories
We're back at it with Come Follow Me! This is two weeks' worth of study and commentary, covering Doctrine & Covenants 77-83.
In this episode, we discuss: The dehumanization of certain peoples in the scriptures, metaphors vs. literal interpretations in the Book of Revelations, confusing and potentially problematic changes to the text of the Doctrine & Covenants, and how the kinds of stories we tell about disabled people in the Church can either empower or stigmatize disabled members.
Read full transcripts: https://www.wholyhumanpodcast.com/
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Explore other fantastic podcasts in the Dialogue Podcast Network: https://www.dialoguejournal.com/podcastnetwork1h 8m | Jul 19, 2021
- Ep. 24: Saylor- Spiritually Diverse Paralympian
Everyone meet Saylor O'Brien!
Saylor is Paralympic Alpine Skier. She began skiing at the age of four, and is now working toward competing in the 2022 Paralympics in Beijing, China.
Saylor was born with Spina Bifida, and born into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. She recently decided to stop attending the church, and has developed a free thinking attitude with her spirituality and faith.
There is a lot to celebrate and learn from listening and reading her story. Come celebrate Saylor with us!
Also, keep in mind that our goal is to lift the perspectives of all disabled and neurodivergent people. As you listen, please keep in mind that experiences vary widely. The views expressed by an interviewee do not necessarily express the wHoly Human hosts' views. Instead, we seek to share diverse experience, learn from each other, and combat ableism together.50m | May 31, 2021
- Ep. 23: First Shall Be Last, Last Shall Be First
In this episode we discuss two weeks’ worth of Come Follow Me, covering Doctrine & Covenants 51-59.
We call out the hypocrisy and tragedy of scriptures with admonitions to care for the “poor and needy” that cover up contextual ableism and discrimination. We point out ways the the Church can be more like Jesus Christ and “leave the 99 to go after the 1” by centering the concerns of marginalized people like disabled, BIPOC, and LGBTQ+ people. Finally, we have an illuminating discussion of how Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs both informs the conversation around Church and community care, and how Maslow’s model falls short because of its appropriation of First Nations/Indigenous knowledge.
We realize that on wHoly Human, we strive to move upwards from self-actualization to community care and perpetuity, as the First Nations model represents. By doing so, we hope to bless our own lives and the lives of those around us.1h 12m | May 24, 2021
- Ep. 22: Amy - "Put on Your Legs!"
This week we continue our series of bringing disabled and neurodivergent people to our virtual pulpit! Please note: The views expressed by our interviewees do not necessarily represent our views at wHoly Human.
We strive to have healthy dialogue as we unroot our own internalized ableism, however, it is a work in progress. If you have any suggestions for how to balance this representation please reach out to us.
Amy Chapman is a special education teacher at a local elementary school. She enjoys swimming, wheelchair basketball, reading books, and relaxing watching a movie.
Amy was born with a condition called Fibular Hemimelia. When she was born she was missing the fibula bone in both legs as well as most of her ankle and foot bones. She had an amputation when she was 14 months old in order to prosthesis better.
Amy is a life-long member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. She grew up in Chicago, IL, and moved to Utah when she was 17. She served an 18-month proselyting mission in Long Beach, CA. Amy has also been involved with the Especially For Youth program for the last 3-4 years.
For more on the metaphor Serena shares at the end of the episode, please check out Ariane Fauteux on TikTok: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeGNrfHF/
Follow us on Instagram @wholyhuman, read full transcripts at www.wholyhumanpodcast.com, and email us at email@example.com to connect.50m | May 17, 2021
- Ep. 21: Spiritual Manifestations & Gifts
Two weeks' worth of Come Follow Me, covering Doctrine & Covenants 46-50.
TW: Conversation about gaslighting spiritual experiences and gaslighting with hearing voices or seeing visions.
In this episode, we discuss what it means to "cast someone out" of a church meeting, what the "proper way" is to express your spiritual feelings, and where the line is between a spiritual breakthrough and a psychotic episode.
Spoiler alert: We don't believe there is a "right" way to express your emotions, whether they be spiritual or mental. We also fully believe that neurodivergent people - including people who experience psychosis and hallucinations - have the right to determine their religious beliefs for themselves.
We also introduce our book wishlist, which we hope our devoted audience can help us out with. Every book you buy for us helps us to make more connections about disability and theology, which in turn makes each episode better! Click to contribute --> https://www.amazon.com/registries/custom/15KWNR03XYJND/guest-view57m | May 9, 2021