Dads Competitive Sports and God

Competitive sports, extracurricular activities and programs for kids are popular in schools and homes. Parents invest a lot of time and money in getting their kids to practice and games or performance events. But is there a danger to all of this that can damage or destroy family relationships?

My guest is National Chess Master and owner of Premier Chess who manages programs for students of all ages and levels, Evan Rabin.

If you would like to connect with Evan Rabin or learn more about the educational programs at Premier Chess, visit: https://premierchess.com/

Email: evan@premierchess.com

Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.

Transcription - Dads Competitive Sports and God

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Competitive sports and extracurricular activities and programs for kids are popular in schools and homes.

Parents invest a lot of time and money in getting their kids to practice in games or performance events.

But is there a danger to all of this that can damage or destroy family relationships?

Find out in just a moment.

Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere,

to take great pride in their role and a challenge society to understand how important fathers are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.

Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.

Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me.

My guest is National Chess Master and owner of Premier Chess, who manages programs for students of all ages and levels.

Evan Rabin.

Evan, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.

Yeah, thank you so much for being here. It's my pleasure.

Evan, I am curious, what is your favorite dad joke?

Why didn't the chicken cross the road?

Oh, I know I've never heard this one before.

What was the answer?

Because he was chicken.

I love that one.

Yeah, it's a good one.

Well, Evan, let's start with your story behind how you became a National Chess Master

and now you're running student programs. How did this happen?

It's a good, very good question.

So I first started playing chess when I was very young.

I was seven years old.

My brother and my dad taught me how to move the pieces.

And I quickly started playing the program at my school, the Churchill School.

And I pretty much started playing very actively since then.

I actually played the Nationals two months after I learned how to move the pieces,

basically, and just kept going with it when I was 20.

I made National Master.

And when I was 12, I actually started teaching chess off off and on.

And seven years ago now in 2017, I started Premier Chess.

And now we have 65 coaches.

We run programs in 80 schools, a bunch of companies like Google and City Group.

And we also do a lot of camps, tournaments, private lessons, etc.

All over the country.

That's amazing.

What was your goal behind starting Premier Chess?

Pretty much the biggest thing was to follow my passion.

Before that, I did enterprise sales at Oracle and Rapid Seven.

It was fun. I enjoyed it.

I made pretty good money doing it.

But at the end of the day, I didn't really to CIOs that much.

And I felt kind of bad in the way, almost, that I would just...

Well, they felt bad, but it's just probably like I was, you know, thinking a little bit, almost.

Where, you know, I was selling something that I didn't really know about.

You know, until this day, I don't really know exactly what an engineered system is.

But, you know, that's what I was selling at the time.

And basically, I said, you know, why don't I sell my true passion of Chess?

So, that's what I'm doing.

And, you know, it's just a lot more relatable.

And, you know, I'm an expert in the field.

So, it's great to do what I love and sell what I love.

Is it ever more than just being about Chess?

Is there something else besides the game that you are offering?

Absolutely.

So, when we're teaching Chess, we're also teaching business and life lessons through the game.

So, very often, actually, I'll meet people networking and they'll say,

"Great to meet you. You know, we'll definitely keep you in mind."

You know, here, Chess players looking for, you know, a coach.

But, I always say that our target market is actually not Chess players.

You know, for the most part, people who are more serious about Chess, you know,

they actually have the coaching that they need or want.

But, really, we're more interested actually talking to the schools and companies,

other organizations that want to learn things like

critical thinking, healthy competition at the law firm.

We teach about judgment training, you know, on the one hand, you know.

Wow.

Law in and out, you know, basically, but when you're on trial or a deadline,

you need to take everything you know and put it into basically a few minutes of work sometimes.

And it's the same thing in Chess, of course.

I tell students all the time, even if it's an opening or a middle game or an end game,

that you've looked at a billion times in theory, you still need to make sure you're spending time at the board

and making sure that you're, you know, doing things correctly.

So sometimes I'll teach you an opening, for instance, and then I'll say, "Oh, let's review it."

But then I'll purposely make a slightly different move, sort of secretly.

And they'll just kind of blindly play the move I taught.

And I say, "But didn't you realize that I actually did something a little different?"

And I'm like, "Oh, no, because they were just so rushing to play, you know, exactly what I taught them."

And I was really just testing to see like, "Oh, are you actually going to think on your feet

and realize that I did something slightly different?"

Or you're just going to go through the motions.

So critical thinking skills are a huge part of what you're teaching.

It's beyond just the game itself, but you're teaching kids and maybe even adults to actually think for themselves in life.

Absolutely.

What are the benefits of dads getting their kids involved in competitive sports or the arts?

The biggest thing is just being able to get yourself out there, get yourself exposed.

And it's also, of course, very important for college and career.

I've been able to build such a great community and chess that has helped not just in my business, but also before.

When I was in college, for instance, one of my good friends called Adyemi, helped tutor me finance and whatnot,

and also helped me in my career search quite a bit.

Many other chess friends have helped, and now I'm given back all the time through other people and thinking forward.

So yeah, it's community, but then it's also just self-self-growth.

And that's why I do actually tell students all the time that if it's a chess, stick to chess, if it's basketball, fine, stick to basketball.

Develop one or two extra career killers that you're really into and be able to grow with those.

I think people do sometimes try to get into too many different things, actually, and it kind of hurts them overall.

I see this all the time where they spread their kids too thin.

The kids are involved in programs outside of school. They're involved in sometimes more than one athletic program within school.

They have their academics to be concerned about, and they don't do very well.

They are actually some of the slowest performing students, because they can't really concentrate and do anything well.

And their parents are just, they have their kids way, way too busy for their age that they really can't even be a kid.

They can't be a kid, but then also they don't practice, right?

I've actually, for instance, I'm in a lot of parent groups on Facebook all over the country.

And, you know, I'm relatively often actually, I'll see someone say, "Oh, do you know any piano teachers that have their own instruments?"

You know, as if they don't want to bite, right? And I'm right away thinking, "What about that's ridiculous? How are they going to learn piano or any other instrument if they don't want to have an instrument at home?"

You know, I think they're in practice throughout the week.

And in a similar vein, right? I always tell students, right? Even if they take private lessons with us, they're in a school program with us once or twice a week.

Right? Make sure that our next lesson is not the next time that you're playing or learning chess, right? And you still need to be pretty consistent throughout the week.

Absolutely. I love this. The other thing that makes me wonder, sometimes if the parents have these kids so busy to compensate for something else, maybe they really are uncomfortable just spending that one in one time bonding with their own children.

And so they're using something else to keep them from actually having to build that connection in a meaningful way.

Absolutely.

What are the advantages to putting your kids in either athletics or an art? So is there an advantage to your kid being in the arts versus being an athletics or one of the other or is there no advantage at all?

Honestly, really, I think just depends on the kid. If they're more athletic, all the power to them. I have a nine-month-old daughter now. So we're not, you know, yet thinking about extra curriculars too much, of course.

One thing I definitely plan on is getting her exposed to everything. And then wherever she wants to go with them, that's where she wants to come.

So it's more of athletic route, playing volleyball, basketball, whatever it is.

No, great. No, no. I was actually just listening on a different dad podcast the other day.

That's one of the biggest things that you should actually do is, ever early on, give them decision-making abilities.

Oh, wow.

I'm not like when they go to college, that's the first time they're like, wow, what a major, et cetera. They should be trying to figure out many different choices from simple things like what's for dinner tonight? Have them have a say in it?

I had a fascinating guest on, and actually two guests that talked on this topic of what you can do with things you can do with a baby.

And it turns out that intellectual development or brain development and athletics, so to speak, in a newborn or a baby, are very, very much linked together.

In other words, developing core strength and developing eye coordination, eye movement, just brain development, they're linked together through play, through actual physical play with your baby.

So what are your thoughts on that? And in your own experience, you're a new dad. Have you ever seen play really help with your child's development?

Absolutely. Actually, in the beginning, my grandmother actually was yelling at us for not having her have enough toys. I grew up in the college of 94 and very healthy and very good, but she also very much will always say her opinion.

Which I'm actually incredibly grateful for, of course. But, we weren't spending enough energy making sure that she had toys and whatnot.

And yeah, I really do think that it's incredibly important to constantly get her developing. It's under, you know, under control, of course.

Yeah, so it's fascinating. It's beyond just school programs later in life. This development starts very, very early, even from when they are a baby. And this isn't something you want to just hand off to somebody else as a parent.

This is something you're going to want to roll up your sleeves and get involved with early because that's how you begin and maintain that bonding process that can really help you later on down the road when they become a teenager.

And let's shift back to chess a little bit. What are kids learning from your chess program besides the game and how does that give them a personal advantage in life?

So there's several factors, of course. So, you know, making sure that you're looking ahead, you're realizing that, you know, time is valuable.

And also just making you think about different options. So I myself, by the way, actually had a learning disability growing up. I went to a school called Churchill in New York when I was, you know, very young.

And to you know, if I was upset, you know, unfortunately, I was likely to, you know, yell at another kid or hit another case even, you know, in some cases.

But I really do think chess, you know, actually helped me in some ways and made me realize that there are different options, you know, out there.

And, you know, I could tell the teacher I could ignore it. I could, you know, tell another student and something was, you know, disturbing me.

And, yeah, there were a lot of other options out there. And that's why I do tell students, you know, every time you make a move, make sure you're at least considering two or three alternatives.

And you should never, yeah, typically make the first move that you see necessarily, right? You can make that move eventually. But if you are, make sure you're at least considering some alternatives.

Now let's look at the flip side of the topic. What are some negative effects of competitive athletic or arts programs? In what ways can it be harmful to or damaging family relationships or even health?

Anything could definitely, if it's not in moderation, be actually harmful. I personally, you know, see a lot of chess parents that could be a little bit too crazy about their kids and results.

You know, one thing I always actually talk about is how, like when we run our tournaments, the kids relatively easy to deal with the parents. Most of them are absolutely great.

But some of them could be a little bit difficult. You know, they don't leave the room when we tell them to leave the room.

Because they're some like helicopter parents. In one case, one of the top grandmasters in the country. I won't mention his name, but in the past, when we were both in high school,

we had to take the tournaments and literally, in some cases, I heard the dad like publicly yell at him, you know, that he would lose a game. You know, this and that.

It wasn't good for him at all. And obviously, yeah, did not go over well. I think maybe even got to a point where he was welcome at the club and not his like father.

Yeah, just just like, you know, pretty, pretty crazy at the time. So I think that the short of it is that, yes, you do want to get a little bit of all with with with your kids.

You know, but you should step to the side a little bit as well.

You know, I also have seen many cases, you know, kid, not really wanting to, you know, listen to the teacher much.

You know, because the parent is right there in the parent. And I, you know, I've in a couple cases that we did actually a snow day virtual camp a couple weeks ago.

It was one younger girl, you know, who's like five signed up for the camp. And, you know, she was a little upset and the mom was kind of there, you know, supporting her.

And I actually privately messaged her in the chat with, with all due respect.

And I said, you should, you know, go do your thing, you know, work for the day, whatever. You know, and she's like, Oh, I don't really know she, she maybe I should get a refund because my kid is young most of the other kids are older.

And I said, just trust me, just literally leave five minutes and into what happens and then throughout the day, the girl was more than fine, you know, loved it.

All it was was, you know, if she was a sand holding a little bit too much.

I love the story that you brought out about the dad yelling because I see so many times where parents will live their own lives, either their successes or they will live their failures vicariously through their kids.

Instead of their kids letting, letting their kids have their own experience, they burden their kids and they put their own experiences or missed experiences and put that burden on their kids.

And they may not even be aware that they're doing it, but it's really damaging. And that's one area where I see that can be really damaging to, to that relationship, putting undue unnecessary pressure on a child.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's crucial, you know, to think about.

Do you ever see those conflicts and goals between a student and a parent or a dad?

I haven't so much, you know, I would say that, you know, pour them into something we, you know, strongly encourage, of course, to, you know, all students.

Actually, I was actually at a recital a couple of years ago, one of my good friends, Mike Papapalu owned a company guitar guy go over, they do piano and guitar lessons and other instruments as well.

And actually a couple of years ago, he partnered with this guy, Scott, something or other.

And one thing Scott actually said that I really actually appreciated was you guys are going to learn more in this recital.

Then you have in the last, you know, seven months, you know, learn, learn.

And I really do think that that made a lot of sense, you know, I think, you know, what was the point of learning an instrument for six months if you're not going to like perform at all.

And it's definitely similar in chess and in tournaments.

You could take lessons every week for a long time, but you're not really going to get better until you're like starting to play some tournaments here and there.

It's about conquering a fear that the otherwise would not have had the courage to conquer if they really didn't have that structure in those lessons to really hold them accountable.

It's a lot of fun to really teach different tricks and tips to help them overcome their anxiety and help them to focus.

So in chess, are there ever strategies that you teach that really helped to hone in and develop focus and concentration?

Yeah, so definitely a fair amount. I mean, obviously that is huge. And I always tell students that you do need to study a lot of jazz.

Of course, if you want to get better, but you also have to learn how to focus at the board, which honestly, even myself, you know, compared to other masters in particular.

I just struggled with focusing. You know, I just, I'm actually reading now book about the Kasparov Carpov match in 1985.

And Kasparov talked a couple times about how he and Carpov, you know, it's been 30, 40 minutes on one move.

So it's probably, in some cases, a little bit too much, but you know, it just goes to study that he focuses very, very, very key.

And a lot of players, including myself, you know, will fall into the trap, but wow, this move is so obvious.

And you make it instantly. And right after you play, you're like, wow, I should have considered these two things.

Or, you know what, even worse, I missed this very easy win for him. I usually should have seen, but I did.

And the only reason you missed it is you move too quickly. And very often too, you know, students will miss simple tactics, which are, you know, for those that don't know, basically a small series of moves too.

Basically, usually one material, in some cases, checkmate. And, you know, they'll miss it, simply because they weren't looking for it.

So yesterday I was actually looking at a game with the student. It was a very short game actually from Larry Christianson, who's the several time US champion.

We still actually played together in the Boston team of the US Chessley.

And he actually meet on a car path with currently World Champion in 13 move in car pod miss something relatively very, I mean, not even relatively, you know, very simple.

But it simply was because he wasn't looking for, you know, tactics.

And yeah, I teach that game all the time now to the students just to show that, you know, even like a lead World champion, you know, he's putting his guard down and not focusing.

And then, you know, you could lose the game in 13 moves, which is like almost unheard of.

This question, this next question is a question that has taken a lot of discipline for me not to ask this question in the very beginning because I honestly don't know the answer to this question.

And it's been burning on my mind. So I've saved it for last.

You've talked about a connection between chess and understanding God. And I'm really curious to know what that connection is.

So there's definitely I think several different answers to this question. I've actually had several rabbis on my own podcast.

Actually just last night we published an episode with two rabbis who are actually both rabbis.

Obviously, but also physics experts. They actually have their own podcast physics to God.

Oh, wow, super, super interesting. The king is the only piece in chess that does not get captured.

So a lot of beginners, but they actually have a very common mistake that you win a game by capturing your opponent's king, but no, that doesn't happen in chess.

So the king is not being captured and God is always there. Wherever you are, a big believer in that.

Sometimes we don't know the answer. Why? Yeah, it does. But once certain things, but there's always a reason for that.

And I'm a big believer of that. Very, very powerful. Evan, how can dads listening connect with you or learn more about your chess programs?

Yeah, thank you so much. For one, I'm really grateful for this appearance. I do also want to give a quick shout out to our mutual friend, Rina of the better called Daddy Show for introducing us.

She's just an absolute great connector. And yeah, thank you so much to her as well.

But yeah, if anyone does want to reach out, learn more about chess. We do work with a lot of schools, companies, individuals.

Whether or not you're looking to go and pay for lessons, we definitely love to be a resource, a network or a connector, many other things as well.

Yeah, you could definitely email me at evan@premierchess.com, or website, premierchess.com. And we'd love to be in touch.

And just to make things easier, if you go to the fatherhoodchallenge.com, that's the fatherhoodchallenge.com. If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description.

I will have all of the links that Evan just mentioned posted there for your convenience as well.

Evan, as we close, what is your challenge to dads listening now?

Just being able to kind of live in the moment, be present. I now have, as I said before, a nine-month-old daughter, Maya.

And frankly, in the last nine months, I've been somewhat behind on my business and whatnot.

And I pulled that to my wife a couple times and some other people as well. And at times, actually, somewhat regretted that.

We didn't have a babysitter earlier. We actually got one a couple of weeks ago. But at the end of the day, I have no regrets at all.

I guess I am somewhat flexible as an entrepreneur. And I've been able to kind of juggle, take care of the baby and, you know, and, you know, and, you know, running the business.

But, yeah, I just want to say that, you know, don't have any regrets. And along with that, you know, it's very easy to make mistakes.

Of course, you know, especially your first time, you know, parents' things still are all the time, obviously. And, you know, just rolled punches. It's okay. You know, every guy that makes mistakes.

That's absolutely true. Well, Evan, I have learned so much from you, so I definitely know dads listening have as well.

Thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge. I really appreciate it.

Thank you so much, my sincere pleasure.

Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood Challenge. If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more information about The Fatherhood Challenge, please visit TheFatherhoodChallenge.com. That's TheFatherhoodChallenge.com.

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