Phantom Power boxed set thoughts
jD, Dan from London, Pete and Tim are joined by a very special guest on this episode that is dedicated to the new reissue of Phantom Power for its 25th anniversary.
And make sure to listen to the VERY END!
[0:05] On August 31st, 2023, The Tragically Hip dropped the first track from the Phantom.
[0:12] Power 25th Anniversary box set, a song called Bumblebee.
I will always remember this day because my friends Dan from London, Pete and Tim were in Toronto for our big live finale and the four of us were off to Kingston to visit the Bad Houseand sightsee the tragically hip scenes in Kingston.
The first thing we did inside the car was fire up Bumblebee.
It was so odd to hear something so familiar but so new to my ears.
I hadn't heard this melody or these bending guitar licks before and I wanted more.
[0:53] Lucky for us there are several other tracks included on this box set.
Songs we either hadn't heard, or maybe we've heard snips and pieces of in live performances, or maybe on a bootleg.
And of course there are complete song ideas that wound up on Gord's first solo record, Coke Machine Glow.
There is also a fantastic live show from Pittsburgh, demos, and alternate versions of songs that did make the final cut.
In essence, this is an exciting time to be a hip fan.
Although we are all collectively gutted that we'll never see our boys on stage again, as long as I've been a hip fan, I've clamored for these songs that somehow wound up on the cuttingroom floor.
And I'm sure you have too.
[1:41] Today we'll get a sense of what Dan, Pete, and Tim think of the Reissue and we'll speak with a very special guest about the making of this spectacular box set and so much more.
So sit back, relax, and let's start getting hip to the hip.
[2:23] Hey, it's Shadeen here and welcome back to Getting Hip to the Hip.
This is an out-of-sequence bonus, episode for everyone.
We are going to be talking today about the box set of Phantom Power, and I am joined as always by my friends Pete and Tim, and today's special guest again, Dan from London. How's itgoing, everybody?
Well, Dan got his ears lowered, looks like Dan got his ears lowered.
Yeah, I lost some hair over the course of the last thing, yeah.
He was shorn. Maybe it was his younger brother stepping in. Yeah.
[3:07] So fellas, when we last left off and we talked about Phantom Power, I recall the conversation really revolving around fireworks.
You guys both really loved that song.
Something On was a little underwhelming for you.
You got into Poets, you thought that was a good kickoff and here we are just like six months after, not even six months, like four months after releasing that episode and The TragicallyHip goes out and releases a 25th anniversary box set of Phantom Power.
So we thought it would be cool to get the band back together and talk about that for a little bit.
And we'll be joined by a very special guest who we won't reveal quite yet.
Is there anything that in particular, Pete or Tim, you remember about your experience with the record, thinking back, and Dan, for you following one of them, what was your experiencewith the record in general?
[4:24] Um, it's funny because I went back and I found my notes from the original and it's it's just crazy to look at.
It's like it's a it's a time it's a time capsule because, yeah, there were certain songs that was like, this is good.
And like and now I look at, like, some of the songs that I was.
[4:44] You know, Gugu and Gaga over and I love fireworks, but I mean, by by and far, you know, Bob Cajun is probably one of the most just, I mean, it's on loop in my home.
So many, so many days. She also listens to it as well, right?
Oh, yeah, she absolutely loves that song. We're listening to the live version today, we went for a hike.
[5:07] And Cherrigan Falls. Poets is like, I think didn't, didn't, goodness, 50 Mission, didn't they?
They came out with Poets when they played the live event.
That song just, I had like one line written for that song. And this is the line, this is how sad it is. Dig it.
Verse phrasing is key to the song. Lines go to the next measure.
Layers and guitars. Nice. Now I'm just like, I hear that song.
And I just fucking stop what I'm doing. And I just like, I fucking love that song.
It's crazy how this album grew on me like a fucking virus. It's amazing.
Timmy? Great. Yeah. Great, great question, JD, for sure.
I mean, there's still a few on it that I'm not a super fan of, just to start off being negative here.
Like, the rules to me is still a yawner, you know, but like, I kind of dig Chagrin Falls more than I did last time.
I don't think I was anti, but in Emperor Penguin, I've read so many times across platforms that people love Emperor Penguin, and that song's slowly growing on me too. It's one of myfaves.
There's still some really good ones in there.
[6:31] Thompson Girl I could still live without. That's another one that grew on me, Timmy. I feel you, but I grew on it.
With the new songs, and this is a question for a few minutes ahead, but somebody asked with the new songs, are any of those potential replacements for what's on the original?
Oof. So yeah, that got me thinking a little bit.
Tim, why do you always have to embroil things in controversy?
I mean, that just is a controversial question.
I mean, probably because of aliens, I guess. Oh, stop it.
[7:15] Dan, what did you think of Phantom Power? I mean, Phantom Power is an absolute solid album.
It's just a kicker, isn't it? I mean, I always love something on, I think it was the first track I got into off the album and I still absolutely love it. I think that song kicks ass.
Something about the bass drum and the bass just driving it and the timing is just fantastic.
Obviously, yeah, Bob Cajun.
That always used to come on at a certain point on my commute when I was arriving at a certain station and I now still have overwhelming feelings when I pull into that station.
[8:02] I can't believe how big a song can be, how overwhelmingly amazing a song can be.
But yeah, I mean, the other stuff, I mean, Escape is at hand, I think, is just my favorite track on the album.
You know, again, it's a whole other different story and different sentiment that it carries.
And I don't know, I think that is a Bob Cajun and Escape is at hand, I think that just works a genius.
And I can't say much more than that.
Yeah. You know, the loss related with Escape Is At Hand is so relatable for me. And probably everybody.
But I tend to live with you, Dan.
I think Escape At Hand is... There's something about that song that just hits home, I think, probably for most people.
[8:58] Maybe not sociopaths. I don't know. Maybe not.
I think, Dan, you hit on the point. It's crazy how songs, even if you listen to them and enjoy them, it's like they get to a point where you've listened to them so many times, and perhaps thesame situation, like you said, pulling into that particular tube station or whatever it is, that maybe you don't hear it for a while, but then you hear it again, And, and just like a flood ofmemories and images come back.
Just weird how the human brain works, man. I mean, this summer, we were go, go ahead.
I mean, I just, I was just gonna say also in terms of that as well, it's the same station that I come into, I used to come into every time Fiddler's Green came on as well.
So there's a time in all the albums where some of this stuff happens.
[9:49] That's cool. That's cool. So have any of you guys had a chance to listen to the bonus tracks or the outtakes or the live show or any of it?
And if you haven't, that's cool.
All of it. All of it? Yeah. Yeah.
I'm just happy to have more live music from these guys.
For the obvious reason. It's a nice sounding show. So I read some kind of critique, so it's not the best sounding live show they played. I mean, who cares?
I'm just happy to have more live music. That's an easy go-to wherever I am, in the car, on a plane, whatever.
So as far as the new songs go? Yeah, back to your question.
Yeah, I dig most of them. What's the best of the bunch? Eh, I don't know, I'm not there yet, I wouldn't say I'm there yet, I kinda like them all for different reasons.
[10:52] Vegas Strip may be the least, but I like all these songs. I haven't gotten to it yet.
It's my least favorite, but I still really like it.
Yeah, like Songwriters Cabal isn't my favorite, but I love that song.
Mystery, just lastly. Mystery is kind of a phenomenal ending to this group of songs.
It's just this somber kind of tearjerker.
Yeah, that was that was a happy listen. Joy meant either you fellas dabble.
[11:31] I dabbled today and a couple of days last week, not yesterday, but I think Thursday and Friday in the fly stuff, which I concur with Timmy, I just love the live shit and I don't give afuck If it was a, you know, if it was a tape recorder jammed behind a, you know, bathroom stall and you got it picked it up in the background.
It's just cool to hear this band live, but I loved it. Um, of the new tunes.
I agree. I'm not there yet, but I, I got, um, I did hear bumblebee a lot when that came out, cause that dropped first, if I'm not mistaken, right. It dropped the day we went to Kingston.Kingston.
So we got to it on the way to Kingston. That was fun. That's right.
But I would say of the new tracks, I think the strongest one is Insomniacs. Me too.
I just think it's very brawling, fucking harking back, just cool, fucking, just has that cool, easy, fucking hip, early shit to it.
Early feels to it. Yeah, you know, has the road apples feel to it or something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree with that. I like that too. I could be swayed.
[12:50] Okay. Dan? Yeah, and I mean for me, I've listened to the extra tracks.
I mean, I still love Bumblebee.
[13:04] There's something about that with the guitar bends, that like, I mean, I think we next sort of hear those kind of guitar bends on my music at work.
Something very similar happens towards the end of that, doesn't it?
But in terms of the live stuff, there's a few little things going on in there.
I mean, obviously, when you get down to 100th Meridian, there's a kind of improvised extract of Bumblebee in there, which is fantastic.
And also, in the Chagrin Falls live version, he breaks into Born Free, but in the alternate version of Chagrin Falls, he's singing Chagrin Falls with a Born Free kind of lilt to it.
So there's these kind of little parallels between some of the stuff that's been chosen, I think.
Yeah, so maybe that's the reasons for some of those selections.
Yeah. To you for choosing this live this light those like cuts you mean I Think so. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, there's definitely some some thread woven throughout.
Yeah Too bad. We don't have anybody to ask We might get some insight from our special guest Yeah, we should kick to him right now.
We'll go to a song and then we'll come in with our special guest Johnny fucking thing.
[17:35] Hello, hello, hello, hello, I hear you guys now. There we go. Oh good. Am I good?
Am I good? Yeah Hello Hi johnny Good doing well Sorry about that Hi, that's my fault. Not yours.
I'll take full credit for that We're just waiting for one more to join Okay, he's uh in the waiting room now.
Oh, there he is amazing how everything just Clicked and then johnny came on because we were having some severe problems, Dan, can you hear us? Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. Can youhear me? Yeah. Grant.
[18:18] How you doing technically there, Danny? Good. Can you hear me?
I can hear you. I can see you.
Perfect. So then are you done? Are you done taking the McDonald's in London?
London? London. Yeah. Yeah. My dad, my dad's hometown. He's from Woolwich.
Woolwich, really? Yes. Oh yeah. South of the river. And we got to Canada and some friends would say, are you from London, Ontario or London, England?
And my dad would just shoot back, he'd go, there's only one, London.
Ooh. Although they have a Thames where the Canadian one. Ooh. Anyway.
[18:59] That's beautiful. Isn't there in London, Missouri or something, too? There's a London... Oh, they're all over the place.
Yeah. What's the deal with that? What's the deal?
I think there's one in India also. You can't throw a shoe without hitting a London, is basically what you're saying. Yeah.
All right. Well, let's get things on the road here.
Johnny, just a brief introduction. We've ran a podcast from May 2, 4 to Labor Day this summer, where I took my friends that have never heard of the hit before. One is in Spain, Malaga.
One is in Portland, Oregon. That's Tim and that's Pete, who is from Spain.
And then Dan is from London.
And we took them through a record a week, starting with the Baby Blue record and working up to Man-Machine Poem and just.
[19:54] Inculcated them into the world of Tragically Hip.
We ended up with a big party at the end downtown at the Rec Room.
We raised like almost four grand for Donnie Wenjack.
Oh that's amazing. Incredible.
Yeah, so that's our story. I'm sorry I had to get the The music stuffed down your throat like that.
[20:19] Can you imagine doing it, Johnny, like of a band that you've never heard of, right?
And I've heard of you guys, but like never heard of you guys. I mean, I never heard it.
But it's crazy how we did get it literally shoved down our throats.
And now we were going back today talking about Band and Power, about what our first reactions were for it.
And even compared to now, how much everything's just grown on us.
It's just like, and we're diehard fans now, but go back a year from today, we didn't know. That's incredible.
Wow. It's crazy, man. Thanks for sticking with it. It's not always easy.
My Spotify algorithm is still totally convoluted, but a lot of a lot of hit playing in there.
So Johnny, let's start at the start and get to know a little bit about you as the drummer of The Tragically Hap.
And youngest member of The Tragically Hap. That's right, that's right. It's a dig.
[21:27] It's Gord Sinclair's birthday today, right? It is indeed.
Yes. Yes. I had dinner with him and Paul the other night in Toronto, and we had a nice evening.
And, you know, we're 40 years young next year.
I was in high school when we started, and I guess here we are.
Wow. Wow. Who, before you got into the band and as you guys were forming, um, you know, your sound and your, you know, cadence, who were your big influences?
I've, I know Stuart Copeland came up at one point. Oh, without a doubt.
Yeah. I've heard a story about an exam or something like that, that you missed.
That's correct. Yeah, that's correct. Uh, and we later ended up working with Hugh Padgham, the great British producer. and Synchronously was coming out and it came out on the daybefore my.
[22:29] My math exam for Mrs.
Griffordy and Lynn got this record and I listened to it.
I'd heard Every Breath You Take on the radio, but then when I heard Synchronicity II and just the blistering drumming of Stuart, I just had to drink it all in.
I remember making the decision. I was like, I can listen to this record, I can study for the exam.
If I don't study for the exam, I'm going to summer school, which I did.
And then I took one day off to go see them at the Olympic Stadium in Montreal, but it was worth it because that was, that was really my education was living, eating and breathing.
And if you were a drummer in the eighties, who, uh, the guy, he was instantly identifiable by a snare drum.
Um, just the hit one snare drum, there was Stuart Copeland.
So, And this was an era of drum machines, don't forget, this was Len drums and sequencers, and I loved all that stuff too, absolutely did, but to be on the radio, and Stuart was it, he was,and I'm still finding things out about him, that he held the drumstick between two fingers, he didn't hold it, he held it up here.
[23:48] Instead of the two fingers, which is the traditional way to hold the drumsticks.
But he invented a way to play and invented a kit, which was a sound, you know.
And he really, I can't say enough things about Stuart Copeland.
Yeah, he's amazing. But I'll also listen to Alan White of Yes, who was fantastic. and of course, you know, Neil Peart, Bob Rush.
That's a pretty good pedigree.
Well, you try and take a little bit from each guy, you know, you don't want to be a lab rat. You don't want to copy them.
You want to just take all the little things you like the right hand from this guy, this snare drum from that guy, the bass drum.
And of course, the great I saw him the other day, the Manu Katché, Peter Gabriel's drummer, who is the Picasso on the drums. He has hands down, Art Picasso on drums.
High praise. Dan?
Yeah, so yeah, those are your sort of past influences. But who do you enjoy listening to now? Who does it for you now?
Well, it's really funny because what's on my turntable right now is Heavy Weather by.
[25:12] Weather Report and I'm listening to Jaco Pastorius.
I'm trying to get as much of him into me because he was the guy really, you know. You hear Geddy Lee talk about him, you hear.
So I'm listening to a lot of bass players these days and loving it.
So that's what's going on.
[25:36] I gotta I gotta ask you, just because you mentioned synchronicity, this is just a this is just a note.
And if you didn't know it, then I think we brought it up with Paul.
But do you know that that record had 33 different covers?
[25:53] I did, yes I did. I didn't know that I thought it had.
I thought it had. Well, I guess it would because each guy was sort of on one of the strips and it changed.
But I didn't know there were 33. 32 or 33. But yeah, it was when I found and some some versions are rarer than others. But that record is.
And that song Mother is just nuts. And isn't Stewart Copeland singing that song?
No, that song is Andy Summers, and I heard a story, they did part of it in the Moran Heights in Montreal and the engineer asked Hugh if he could bump himself off a cassette in the day.
In those days there was no internet so it was cool. The engineers usually got to be able to do that.
Here's a record I'm working on, just happens to be with the police.
And he asked Hugh Padgham if he could leave that song off.
A lot of people hated it. It's a hard song to listen to if you're not into the record. You know, what went into the trash bin was I Burned For You, that was slated to go on that record.
And think about how that would have, you know, from Sting's soundtrack work, would have changed that record. Totally.
[27:22] I'm a little curious of then and now also, when you first started playing drums, I raised a drummer.
I have a 21 year old who plays drums.
Awesome. Actually, yeah, the past year or so he's been out of the country and he's been more focused on DJing, techno of all things.
But he's, you know, can hear kind of a drummer influence. But anyways, you know, we got him on hand drums early and drum lessons early.
And I lived through, you know, a drum set in the basement.
Just anywhere you went in my house, you had to go outside or take a call.
It was just, you know, what was it like for you in your early years playing drums? Like what pushed you over to the drum set or being interested in it? And...
Conversely, do you still play now? Do you still have access to a drum set or a drum set at home?
[28:13] Great questions. Number one, my brothers had a friend who had a drum set and they said to me, they went and got the snare drum and they said, we'll get you the snare drum.
And after a year, if you're still playing, we'll go get the rest of the drum kit.
And I'm still playing. And so they Then I had an eye injury, which for three weeks I had both eyes sort of closed off with cotton batting.
And it was a really weird, weird accident.
I still, when I'm explaining it to people, my dad was on the phone.
He was a pediatric cardiologist and he was talking to the hospital and we were at a friend's house.
And it had this jar of erasers and pens and pencils and elastics and he was talking and I remember he had his hand on my head like that and I grabbed an elastic band and a pen, and I shotthe pen into my eye and yeah it was very bizarre I thought it was shooting at the other end so it went right in and I remember my dad saying to my mom don't touch it leave it leave it andshe was trying to pull it out and so I went in and my sense of hearing was heightened.
[29:33] I could hear my dad walk down the hall after he had his morning rounds.
I could hear the cadence of his footstep and so you know for that three weeks where I was unable to see, it just kicked that.
At about seven years old into a different gear for me. I started hearing rhythm everywhere.
As you do with your indicator of your car, to industrial sounds, trucks backing up. I can put a rhythm into it.
Like your son, his, like you're saying about drumming, and now he's DJing, his internal clock is always going as a drummer because that's where it started. Absolutely.
Yeah. So it's the same. Drummers are that way. You just pick those things up.
And then second question. No, I'm not playing. I'm kind of doing what your son is doing with drum machines.
But I have two drummers in the house, two nine-year-old boys.
[30:29] And one is a lefty. And I would set a kit up for him and then my other son, Finn, and then I would forget about Willie.
And then, so I just said, well, I'm going to set it up on the left for you because he has a great acoustic kit, a set of Gretsch 1960s.
And now I play left because I'm not the drummer that I'm not, you know, I'm not that drummer anymore. So now I'm discovering all kinds of new things about playing on the left side, andleft-handed drummers I find are way more creative.
It's funny you mentioned that because we often notice when I've gone to shows with my son, we'll just say immediately that guy's left-handed.
You just see it like that. That's very cool.
Ringo was left-handed, they say, and that's why no one could ever duplicate the way he got around the kit.
Yeah. His left hand pushed his right hand, I think.
Phil Collins, Ian Pace, they're not good drummers.
They're incredible drummers. Those two guys for me, Ian Pace and Phil Collins.
Phil Collins, the stuff that I listened to today, and I'm like, how is he doing that?
How is he doing that? He was incredible.
He really was. He is incredible.
[31:48] Johnny, you've been hard at work on the Phantom Power reissue, the box set, the amazing box set.
I got it last week, and it was so fun to open and just touch the vinyl, and the book that's inside is really wonderful.
I'm just, I'm so curious what a project like that.
[32:17] Entails like from a from a time perspective. And I know you guys are hard at work on another one for next year.
Like, when does that begin? And what does that process even look like?
Like, is it just climbing Everest or what?
It's really fun. It's really great therapy for us.
You know, we get to talk about the past and if one guy doesn't remember it, someone else will.
We have weekly calls and it's fun.
We didn't do any therapy after Gord passed away and we really should have.
We have just all kind of dealt with things and I think really right now that this is our therapy.
I'm in Toronto, so that's where the tapes are. I'm very happy to do it and we're digitizing things and Phantom Power was a different one because it was in different formats.
It was on D88, little digital tapes.
[33:11] DAT machines were around and kicking at that time.
We also had our 2-inch machine and then Pro Tools, the dreaded Pro Tools was coming in.
Well, you didn't have to make a decision and you could have a hundred tracks on something and and I was like the you know There was such economy when we were going to tape andAnd I really liked that.
So, you know, if you look at the early records, we're still I, Think there's the most that we used was 18 tracks You know Don Smith would consolidate things and that was really a goldenperiod So, it's not as daunting as you think, it's been fun, it's been fun, it's been a discovery.
[34:00] You know, to listen to some of those tracks and hear Gord Downie speaking in between takes is really these beautiful moments.
So yeah, it's been a lot of fun.
Robbie is in charge of the box set, putting it all together.
So he's doing all of that stuff.
And you know, Gord and Paul are very involved in it. But they have solo careers too.
So, um, you know, uh, but we are, we're all together on this.
Uh, it's not me, uh, just doing, um, the tape stuff there. They're involved in it too. Very cool.
Yeah. I mean, I was going to ask in terms of the project from the offset, uh, you know, when you're going through the tapes and covering all of these tracks and these, these different takesof the tracks that you have, what, what shape, you know, with those tracks in, did they require a lot of work to get them up to spec, or was there anything that was kind of left off that was,you regard as pretty good, but it was still a bit too rough around the edges to include?
[35:04] Well, if we did any editing back in the day, if it was tape, we would do chunk editing.
We would take the ending of one, with the hip, we would play a tune, it'd be great, be great and we would get close to the end and then we'd anticipate the ending and I'd make the otherguy speed up so we get to it and then our producer would say well the ending of this one's good so let's take the last four bars so there we go there's the track.
So they were in pretty good shape you know the tape that we got was really forgiving.
The crazy thing is I heard about the Rolling Stones going back and doing stuff that they did in the early 60s.
And the early 60s tape actually lasted better than the stuff they made in the 80s.
They had to do very little to get them back into shape, which is cool.
You got to bake them in what essentially is an easy bake oven for tapes at a low temperature and it just sucks all the humidity out.
And so record companies are obviously very well prepared to do all that sort of stuff and then it's just digitizing them.
But when you first have a go through the tape after it's been baked and it's coming off the head and going through a board at the studio, it never sounds better.
You know and they shoot it over to Pro Tools and they say now we have it We've have it and I always say well it sounded better a few minutes ago when it was going through the machineand so, Yeah Tape is king.
We lived in the Golden Age. We really did in the in the 80s and 90s When you when you still were spinning tape.
[40:59] So I imagined with coming across tapes, you guys did so much work, you know, in the recording process that I imagined it was just so fun to go through. It has been.
It was, you know, but, you know, talk about Bob Cajun being an example.
We only really have two versions of that.
[41:23] And Gord Sinclair and I had a conference and we were like, well, we can play that again and we can play it better. And we were like, yeah, let's do it.
And so the version you hear is the demo version, really.
It's just we said we would go back and address it later. I think we went on tour and then it was Steve Berlin listening to it, which was really cool because he he recognized you can't beatyour demo.
And that's what bands try and do.
And he was so smart with it. And he said, I'll let you play it again.
But you're not going to beat this. It's just there's a vibe there.
And Gordon and I were like, we're going to beat it. We're going to do it. And we never did.
And so I always loved that, that he did that because as a producer, I wouldn't have done that.
And I would have screwed it up if I was producing that record.
And he had the brainpower and the knowledge and he'd made so many great records before that he just, he let us play it, but we never beat it.
It's our biggest song, too. Well, we were talking before, I absolutely love that song.
That song is the soundtrack of this past summer for my wife and I.
You jammed it down her throat. Oh, yeah. She drank the Kool-Aid, man.
Let me tell you. She sure did.
I've tried. We're getting there.
[42:46] That's the pocket of that song, in my opinion, and this is my opinion, and if Robbie was here, I'd maybe change it just to be sweet to him, but it's you and Gord.
It's just that the pocket's so tight with that.
But you said something earlier about tape, and I want to just touch on it real quick because you were talking about how they have Pro Tools and this and that, and how you would havemade a different decision with Bob Cajun.
But we cut a record in this last March, our band, we did our second record.
And the engineer was using Cubase, which is just another version of Pro Tools or whatever.
You've got a million, you can do a million tracks. But like he was like, no, you're going to do this many. And I'm like, no, I don't like that.
He's like, nope, that's it.
Yeah, because you get to a point to where you could just you just go crazy.
And you could do 25, 30 tracks, you know, on one take or 25, 30 takes.
And it's just it's stupid at that point.
You've got to appreciate the moment that it is, you know, whether it's, you know, you're never better than your demo, like you said. You know? Yeah.
And and I don't know, I guess.
[44:01] There was, and not to get off the topic of, of, of, of Phantom Power, but for me, and I know we all had this, this reaction.
We felt like I felt like In Between Evolution was the Johnny Faye record.
[44:17] Really? Yeah, and there's... I don't remember that record, really.
Well, yeah, there's a specific thing. That's crazy because there there's at the end of certain songs, there's little, you know, hi-hat touch, there's a rimshot, there's just little sprinkles of youthat is the last sound you hear on multiple tracks and or, or the beginning of a track.
And I'm like, I wonder if there's something to this, but they must have just been the take that you guys did and it's taking up, maybe so.
That was confusing record.
Well, it's interesting about the tape to dress the tape thing.
Yeah. And you have limitations. You got to make decisions.
Uh, and you know, and I didn't say that I read Keith Richard's book and he was like, give me eight tracks and I'll write you a hit.
And, you know, when they went to 16, he was like, man, okay, but I can still do it. Nay. And it's true.
Um, you know, that, that the a hundred guitar tracks or whatever, the layering and, and, uh, it's just, you know, it goes, just lets up on records, John Bonham.
I worked with a guy named Terry Manning and he had, John Bonham got very upset with him because Terry Manning said to me, I was the guy who put the third microphone on thedrums, he didn't like that, he only wanted two.
[45:36] Only wanted two. So yeah, Inbetween Evolution was, we worked with Adam Casper, he was fantastic, obviously he's a guy who worked with Pearl Jam and we were very chuffedabout working for him, with him.
And we seemed to move around studios a lot.
For me that was a little bit confusing, so I never knew what we really had in the can.
And it was in Seattle, where I love. I absolutely love Seattle.
And so that was cool to be there. But yeah, I don't sort of...
It's just a record that's easy to associate with you.
And I think at that time too, we were looking at videos. I remember talking about this video I saw of you.
You were so in the friggin zone playing live.
You broke a cymbal and somebody just came like middle of the song.
You just kept going along, replace cymbal.
That would be Mike Cormier. He was my drum check and he was amazing.
He could tell when they were broken. He sort of mid-song and he'd say, should I wait for the end of the song? I was like, no, just get rid of it.
[46:44] Yeah, you know, we're going through something now where we're going back even further and with Up To Here.
And a question was asked earlier about is there some songs that were left off?
And there was a song that was left off, Up To Here, and it's called Wait So Long. and it was a really, really special song.
Our producer and his manager and some people at the record company really thought that that was the lead track.
[47:15] It ended up being Blow It High Dough, I believe.
Or New Orleans is sinking. But Wait So Long is a great track, and that will come out next year.
Oh, that's exciting. We have a mix of it and everything from Don Smith, so that's fully intact.
So when we looked through the tapes and thought, oh, what do we need to remix?
There was that one, you know, the lettering. It was like, okay, we got that one.
So that'll be great to get out.
You know, hear what people think about that. So one of our go ahead, Judy.
So I have an ammo system set up at home. So I've been listening to the mix and Dolby Atmos.
And I'm just curious about how that works when you're when you're doing a mix of that because there are instrumentations and sounds that I've never heard in those songs before.
And now all of a sudden, they're they're shooting over my head.
And it's, it's really fucking tremendous. It's a great way to experience music.
But I just wonder what it's like.
Do you have a mixer that just takes care of that?
Because I noticed there was there's three writing credits for mixers on the Yeah, on the album.
So I'm just curious if one is just for Dolby Atmos, sir.
Yeah, well, we had a guy in the first couple, I think he did Road Apples.
[48:43] And his name is Rich Chicky, and you might know him because he's done all the Rush stuff.
He's like the Rush in-house guy for Atmos.
Since then, we've had our key engineer, Mark Braykin, has been doing the Atmos stuff because he built an Atmos room.
[49:00] You're right on this one. Phantom Power has a lot of stuff. I was sitting in the back of the room when they were mixing that and it's like there's some backwards guitars and somestuff that just goes out and it makes sense.
I'm not gonna lie, I'm not the hugest fan of, I get it, you know, let's send the hi-hat into outer space, changes the groove, changes the groove for a five-piece band, we're not gonna lie.
[49:29] On an album like Road Apples, which Rich did, and he did a great job.
I just don't get it. On Phantom Power, which would be the closest thing that we would ever have to Dark Side of the Moon, I get it.
You sit in the back of the room and hear the backwards guitar or stuff swirling around. It's cool.
But I know people want this in their headphones, but I guess I'm a little bit like Monomix guy.
I don't mind that either. I love it. I love that. Yeah.
Dan? I'm with you, Joni.
[50:04] Coming back to the other aspect of the box set, which is the live recordings, I mean, what criteria do you sort of use for selecting the live recording?
I mean, out of the three that have been, you know, re-released.
[50:18] Obviously one was the Horseshoe, but the other two have been from, like, American venues.
Would you perhaps, like, choose the American gigs because they might be lesser known to a predominant Canadian audience?
Or, I don't know, how do you choose? We pick a gig that has fewer clams in it and less mistakes.
We just kind of really, we really do.
We did a live record called Live Between, it was way back in the day, and we argued about this.
We had really sort of a good old fashioned fight about it.
And Gord Downie wanted one from this place called the 40 Walk Club, which we'd listened to and it was a great, great version.
It was a great night.
And it's where REM, I think, got their start.
And so we were sort of between that and another couple.
[51:12] And then we ended up picking Detroit because it sounded good.
Um, I think that's kind of what we go on when we're, we're picking these, um, these live, uh, albums and Gord Sinclair's son, um, is the one who really goes through them and says, there'ssomething here.
He knows the hip really well. And so he really kind of directs us.
So there's so many tapes out there. Um, and so he, he sort of says this one, um, from, uh, Chicago second night, a house of blues.
This, this one's got something there. And so Colin Sinclair is really in charge of that.
I don't think any other guy in the hip can take credit for it.
[51:52] Can I just ask as well then, so what percentage of hip shows do you think were actually recorded, you know, documented?
[52:00] It would depend on the period. One tour we went out with D88 machines, other eras we let people tape, like Fish Show or Grapevold Head, we would set up a little area where theycould get stuff off the board.
That was cool. And there were some remote stuff, not a ton of 24-track, tape stuff. We would do stuff for Westwood One.
Most of this stuff is going to be in-house, or a record company generated through a live truck, Usually in LA or New York, we have one coming up from a show we did in the States forRecord Day next year.
Not a ton. There's not a ton. Two scoops in this session. That's great.
That are coming out?
[53:05] You mentioned Zeppelin too. I was going to ask you about Hedley Grange, but I forgot what I was going to say. You know where Bonham did that thing with the, for, for, um.
[53:16] When the levee breaks, you know, yeah, they put the mics up on the stairs. God, that's so cool.
But, but no, that was Jimmy. That was Jimmy Page. That was Jimmy Page doing that.
He engineered page based on that. That's that's such a it's such a I mean, never in in history. Can anybody recreate that sound? I mean, it's just so cool.
No, the sound of like a double bass almost, but people people don't understand that there's the economy of it.
If you worked with one of These older guys, I always say that Don Smith was like Rudy Van Gelder, he got it.
He knew, he kept on coming into the studio, back in the control room.
He would make the live room, the studio sound, the control room sound like the live room. And he was constantly tweaking like that.
[54:02] The guitar, if you listen to the Zeppelin, it's all the stuff that's implied in the chords I think.
The drums are what everything is hanging off of. The guitars are really quite small, you know, you know, there's these these bands that came out in the 80s that were trying to be likeZeppelin, use 24 microphones on the drums.
It sounded horrible, you know, and for John Bonham, it was just the way he played. He was really good.
Incredible jazz sensibilities, an incredible groove. And he was able to move, you know, all four of those guys were spectacular.
We went on the road with them. We went on the road with them, Paige and Plant, through the States, and it was incredible.
[54:49] Yeah. Never a nicer, never a nicer guy than Robert Plant. He was so, so nice.
Oh, yeah. That's that's, that's, that's amazing.
Yeah, I'm a huge, I'm a huge Zep fan. But I just got to ask you real quick about the song Fireworks.
Is there, there's got to be some Rush influence in that. I just hear so much like spirit of the radio in that tune.
It's just such a, I think that when that song, when we heard that song on this record, Tim and I both, I was like, that was for our first favorite song on this record. Oh, that's sweet.
[55:26] Don Smith's mix on the box set is really interesting.
Because for Phantom Power, where we mixed it three different times.
Yeah, I mean, Neil, I got to meet him a couple of times.
He was obviously a huge influence and I would say, yeah, yeah.
I went trick or treating as him one year. I crank called him.
[55:50] Oh my gosh, amazing. Love Rush, man, love Rush.
J.D. be mindful of the of the clock too on the thing. You're on mute.
Yeah, we can't hear you, J.D.
Oh, sorry about that, guys. I was just going to say we've got a minute 45 left of this session before it cancels out.
So, Tim, if you've got a quick one and then we'll bid adieu.
Well, I just had one of our pod listeners asked about Bumblebee and basically was like, why didn't this make the album?
You know, this it could fit in there so well. So just a quick comment on that.
And yeah, yeah, that was one that was that was on on the list.
And I think it just, we just sort of Gord Sinclair was putting the sequences together for that.
And it just for us, there was just something maybe missing. It's really great.
[56:46] And I love the line when the moon's a water balloon.
It just is so great. That's so Gord. You know, yeah.
And I look at every time I look up at a supermoon and it looks like a water balloon. I think it's very cool.
Well, it made the box set. So that's, yeah, that's important.
Yeah. Well, Johnny, we really want to thank you so much for your time.
It means a lot. And thank you gents for, for all your promotion to the hip. Our pleasure.
Keep ramming, keep ramming it.
Hopefully not your family. They love it too. It happens.
[57:29] Thanks for listening to Getting Hip to the Hip. Please subscribe, share, rate and review the show at gettinghiptothehip.com.
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Questions or concerns? Email us at JD at getting hip to the hip.com.
We'd love to hear from you.
[58:25] I can't wait for the music at work box set as well, just so you know, just so you know, we're dying for that one. Oh yes, please, please.
I'll tell you, I'll tell you the one that I was listening to last night and the demos are really great and and I'm really pushing for this one is in violet light.
Oh yes. Yeah. In violet light. The demos were just incredible.
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