• Exploring the Best Picture Nominees of 1975 and Their Lasting Effects

    Welcome back to another episode of For Your Reconsideration! This time, we're taking a trip back in time to explore the iconic 1975 movie season. Join me, Matty Price, along with expert panelists Ryan McNeil, and JM McNabb and our host jD, as we discuss the Best Picture nominees – One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Barry Lyndon, Dog Day Afternoon, Jaws, and Nashville. We'll be offering our own alternative ballot and winner, so be sure to tune in!

    Listen in as we dissect each of the five nominated movies from 1975, discussing standout performances, unique filmmaking techniques, and cultural impact. We'll also touch on lesser-known gems from the year that could have made the cut for Best Picture. As we analyze each film, we'll share our thoughts on which ones have stood the test of time and which ones might be due for a reevaluation.

    In addition to our in-depth analysis of these classic films, we'll be exploring the broader movie landscape of 1975, discussing the role of air conditioning in theaters, the impact of blockbusters like Jaws and Star Wars, and the ever-evolving landscape of the Academy Awards. So grab some popcorn and join us as we revisit the unforgettable movie season of 1975 on For Your Reconsideration!

    --------- EPISODE CHAPTERS ---------

    (0:00:00) - For Your Reconsideration

    (0:15:14) - Film Critique and Analysis

    (0:18:38) - Nashville

    (0:30:48) - Analysis of "Dog Day Afternoon"

    (0:39:06) - Jaws and Its Cultural Impact

    (0:48:49) - Movie Business and Academy Awards

    (0:53:35) - Cuckoo's Nest Analysis

    (1:02:40) - 1975 Oscar Nominee Do-Over

    (1:10:48) - Film Podcast


    0:00:00 - Cold Open

    The nominees for the best picture of the year are Barry Linden, a Hawke Film Limited production, warner Brothers, stanley Kubrick producer, dog Day Afternoon, warner Brothers, martin Bregman and Martin L Fan producers. So is Universal, xanac Brown production, universal, richard D Xanac and David Brown producers, nashville, an ABC entertainment, jerry Wyenthal, robert Altman production, paramount, robert Altman producer. And one flew over the Cuckoo's Nest, a fantasy films production, united Artists, saul Zanz and Michael Douglas producers. And the winner is one flew over the Cuckoo's Nest. And the winner is one flew over the Cuckoo's Nest, one flew over the Cuckoo's Nest. 

    0:01:25 - Matti

    Hey, i'm Matty Price and welcome to another episode of For Your Reconsideration. As always, our expert panel will dive deeply and look fondly at a full year in mostly American movies, ultimately deciding if that year's Oscars got it right or need a do-over. This week we're looking at the films of 1975, including Best Picture Winner One, flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, and nominees Barry Linden, dog Day Afternoon, jaws and Nashville, along with many other films made and released in that pivotal year. As always, our panelists will be able to present their own alternative ballot and winner. Thanks for listening and downloading. You can find this podcast through the client of your choice at duvercom. That's D-E-W-V-R-Ecom. A great year and should be a great discussion, so join. Host JD, jamie Dew and panelists JM McNabb, ryan McNeil and oh me, i'm a panelist this time out. Oh, that's a switch. Well, listen, this was recorded live and in the same room, face to face, in the before times when we all could be face to face, geez, i hope I knew what I was talking about, so let's get into it ["Mammo Podcast"]. 

    0:02:58 - jD

    Hey, it's JD here and welcome to For Your Reconsideration. Let's get right to the panel. Starting on my left, we have. 

    0:03:05 - Matti

    I'm Matthew Price of the Mammo podcast. I'm nominally half of that podcast. I guess potentially 49%. I'm the Mammo, i'm No, we're both the Mam. Do I need to go through this again? All right, for folks that are interested, there are probably 55 episodes of Mammo that explain why it's called Mammo, so you can buy all of them, just randomly pick one, you'll find it. 

    It's in the context And identify those episodes, put them together and, hopefully, tell you We're still working on having some sort of custom price for our contest, but we haven't gotten anything yet. Anyway, that's Hawaii Cool. Thanks, man. 

    0:03:44 - Ryan

    I'm Ryan McNeil, my site is theMatin8.ca, which is not nearly as complicated to explain, and I also host the Magnatecast. 

    0:03:52 - JM

    Cool. thanks, man. I'm JM McNabb. I'm one of the hosts of the rewatchability podcast. rewatchabilitycom, or the iTunes or whatever fringe websites people get podcasts on, is probably there. Are you on GeoCities? Probably? yeah, we're on Angel Fire now It's pretty big. 

    0:04:11 - Speaker 4

    There are a ton. I did a search just the other day and there were like two sites that I've never signed up for or anything like that that were carrying podcasts, Yeah yeah, yeah, that's weird. 

    Totally far out, thanks. Well, we're here to talk about an embarrassment of riches, i think, 1975,. We're going to talk about the five nominated pictures today, and then we'll go around the table and we'll hear what you guys have to think, whether the ballot should stay the same, whether it should change, You're scratching your chin? 

    0:04:46 - Speaker 5

    That's my pencil. look, i'm sorry. OK, is that picking up on the mic? 

    0:04:50 - Speaker 4

    No, no, no, I was just waiting for you to say 1975. Suddenly, the panel drinks. 

    0:04:57 - Speaker 5

    I don't have a pipe and a monocle, so that's like I'm going to scratch my chin. 

    0:05:02 - Speaker 4

    You must feel beardless. 

    0:05:03 - Speaker 6

    I have no idea how naked I feel. 

    0:05:06 - Speaker 4

    Three of us have beards, one of us do not. Let's see if you can pick that up. 

    0:05:09 - Speaker 2

    You're trying to groan, it just won't grow Are you even allowed to talk about movies. 

    0:05:12 - Speaker 6

    I know, but that's your thing. It'll be your tour of the war, and so already Here's how we come full circle. 

    0:05:17 - Speaker 3

    In the 1980s, you weren't allowed to make them unless you had a beard Right, You can't talk about them. Yeah, Everyone's sort of seazy. Having the beard like It was like, oh, you have to have one And we're not letting you. What are you? 

    0:05:27 - Speaker 5

    going to get behind the camera without a beard. You'll cut your chin in the view. Peter, that's fine, that's right. 

    0:05:34 - Speaker 3

    You can't have a house, come back and you have a beard. 

    0:05:36 - Speaker 5

    Most people haven't seen the photos. 

    0:05:37 - Speaker 3

    She was pretty quiet, but Nina Burtmuller had a huge beard Yeah, she had a huge beard. 

    0:05:41 - Speaker 4

    She was five. 

    0:05:42 - Speaker 3


    0:05:43 - Speaker 4

    We were running a little hot there with that beard talk. I just had to make some adjustments there. It was all right guys. So I got excited 1975, we had as your best picture that year. One flew over the Cuckoo's Nest. The other four nominees were Jaws Nashville, dog Day Afternoon and Barry Lyndon. Is there a particular film that you guys want to start with? 

    0:06:06 - Speaker 3

    Jesus throwing darts Can we start with Barry Lyndon. 

    0:06:08 - Speaker 4


    0:06:10 - Speaker 3

    Because I just feel like it's the easy one to talk about. at least for me, I don't know how everybody else wants to. 

    0:06:13 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, let's start with. Yeah, it's a brief movie that's easy to talk about Very long. 

    0:06:19 - Speaker 3

    I mean in the sense that I think, legitimately, if you're looking through the lens of history, it's the one that is the easiest to dismiss as, like this is the least of all the Cooper films. It's kind of not in the same league with the other movies in this year. For me I don't know that it necessarily It feels like a movie that they're giving him because they couldn't give it to him for 2001. Like they're making up to him, yeah, and sort of like no, no, we know, We know Cooper's a genius, so here's a movie he made. It doesn't feel like part of the same cadre. I don't know how anyone else feels. Does anybody really like Barry Lyndon? 

    0:06:51 - Speaker 4

    Okay. So I went into it thinking I was really going to dislike it. I don't dislike it, but I I guess I come in with this weird bias that for some reason I think I don't like Santa Cooper movies, But every time I sit down and watch one I'm like fuck, that's pretty good. It is pretty good, And this was no exception for me, Other than the fact that the narrator sometimes ground on me a little bit. But I suspect if the narration wasn't there I would have been lost a lot of times. Yeah, I really liked it. I really really liked it. 

    What do you like about it? I don't know that I could put my finger on what I liked about it because, again, there's a lot of components of the movie that I shouldn't like Or, based on my history, I shouldn't like, But I found myself appreciating things that I wouldn't normally appreciate. There's a shot, for example, at one point, where the camera is way up on a hill and it's a countryside And it's just to get this stagecoach or wagon or whatever you want to call it carriage going by, And I'm watching the shot and just like Jesus Christ, like the amount of work that must went into just thinking that up is mind-blowing to me? 

    0:08:02 - Speaker 5

    Well, the one that's cinematography Oscar this year it didn't I think it did. 

    0:08:07 - Speaker 4

    I'm not sure what was it. 

    0:08:08 - Speaker 3

    It went four awards, yeah, i think one of the most cinematography And it's the lenses thing. It's the only movie shot Candlelight in natural light. Or he didn't like the candlelight scenes because he had NASA make lenses for him that could take in enough light to. The lenses were the size of people's heads, Wow. 

    0:08:26 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, so, crossman, i remember in film school when film 101 class, like the first year there when you got to cinematography. I remember seeing stills from Barry Linden. They taught us that to teach us about lens speeds and sensitivity for light And they talked about how they designed those special lenses or cameras to film these candlelight scenes. And it does look distinct. It looks unlike any other movie in those dark scenes and taverns and things. 

    0:08:56 - Speaker 3

    Yeah, and it looks like paintings, right. 

    0:08:58 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, it really does. There's a scene where they're looking at paintings And you know like, yeah, i'll leave it at that, jump on. 

    0:09:08 - Speaker 6

    I'm like, i'm with you. Actually I'm at price where I appreciate it on a lot of different levels, like technically it is amazing And I think that was really where it earned its stripes in this class of five is as a piece of technical execution, but just as a story and as a narrative piece it didn't grab me near as much. Part of it, i think, was this time when I rewatched it for the show. I was seeing the brushstrokes of Napoleon all over this, like this is famously the movie he made when his Napoleon project just fell apart And you can see it a lot Like, especially in those battle scenes you can see, ok, this was going to be used there for sure, and this is where this was going to come in, this was going to come in. I was distracted by that. 

    But yet no, certainly it's handsome, it's really really well crafted. But just in that terms of emotional lift and engagement, that was where it lost me, especially in comparison to the other four from this year. 

    0:10:07 - Speaker 3

    I think the thing for me is that it's and I do really like it. I don't think there's any Cooper films I don't really like, so it's always like the weird thing about the Oscars for me is that it's partly out of contextual. Where does this fit in this person's ability to achieve? And I don't think that this compares. There's six other Cooper films that I think are better examples of his ability to achieve. But also I think what you're talking about the inability to be emotionally engaged by it is purposeful. I think the movie's tone, what makes it good is that it has this tone of kind of ride detachment about what's going on. That's kind of like reading the best books And in a book I just read Lolita And Lolita has that in spades. Like it has that weird detached, almost commenting through language on what's happening, that this has to, but it doesn't make you root for it, it doesn't. 

    0:11:03 - Speaker 6

    Sivage you. That's why I think you bring that up, because I was much more engaged in his adaptation of Lolita. 

    0:11:08 - Speaker 3

    Where he did it with this, because he actually takes away that language when he makes Lolita. It's weird. 

    0:11:13 - Speaker 5

    But also I think this movie is about a sort of detached sociopathic character. So I think that coldness is also kind of embedded in the character Totally agree, which you know doesn't always work in the movie. I don't think It doesn't let you into it Exactly. Yeah, and it's long. Oh my God it's long. I liked it when I first saw it, but rewatching it this time it was just. It was kind of a slog to get through. I found I watched it in two settings. 

    0:11:39 - Speaker 2

    Yeah, I took advantage of the intermission. 

    0:11:42 - Speaker 3

    I was like it's weird Why. 

    0:11:43 - Speaker 5

    It's not tomorrow, absolutely. That's what I did. I watched the rest of it this morning before my daughter got up The performances. 

    0:11:51 - Speaker 4

    you were just talking about the lead character. What did you guys think of his performance? The out of the O'Brien Right? 

    0:11:58 - Speaker 6

    O'Brien What did you think? 

    0:12:00 - Speaker 2

    of O'Brien, i was like, oh, that's the guy who I get confused the whole time. Was he the married fair fossil? No, no, what. I am the subject of debt here Did you make a pass at your daughter Her mother's funeral. 

    0:12:11 - Speaker 5

    Yes, I Oh, you know. 

    0:12:12 - Speaker 6

    That was both of them. He's This is probably the most I like O'Neal. My experience with him is kind of checkered, which is to say I'm missing, i'm sure, big performances by him. But I was kind of surprised because a lot of time when you get an actor like that and you put them into a period piece, it can seem ridiculous. So I thought that he carried it, especially in the final crux of this movie where he's got, he's got. He's involved in a duel. 

    0:12:41 - Speaker 4

    I could have watched him in that duel all day I could have watched that for three hours. Why did he not pick a boxing duel? And he was so good at the boxing one You know? Yeah, why go on that? No way to go, kid. 

    0:12:54 - Speaker 6

    No, but in that moment where you're just seeing so many things going on all over his face. also, just the other scene that comes back a lot of the time when you talk about this movie is this kind of wordless seduction that happens over a game of cards And there's so much going on both on his face and Shoot. who's the lead actress in this movie? 

    0:13:15 - Speaker 3

    Who's Yeah? like on both of their faces. 

    0:13:18 - Speaker 6

    They're doing a lot of acting without saying a damn thing, and that is really hard, and considering it's Gubrik, i can only imagine how many times he told them nope, do it again. Nope, do it again. You know O'Neill and Marissa. They're both really good in this movie. 

    0:13:31 - Speaker 4

    Not a card playing in this movie, though, now that you say it, yeah, yeah. 

    0:13:35 - Speaker 6

    Of a game that I don't know. There's no way to follow the actual card game they're playing. You're just like. 

    0:13:40 - Speaker 2

    I hope this is It's like early. 

    0:13:41 - Speaker 3

    Bond, where he's playing background. 

    0:13:44 - Speaker 5

    They're like, i know what he's doing, i just assumed it was a fancy. go fish. 

    0:13:48 - Speaker 4

    He's like put one up and put one down, Put one up and put one down, All right okay, but yeah, then I got to play a weird game after that, so I guess everybody wins. So we're sitting sort of are you with me? 

    0:14:04 - Speaker 5

    Chad. I like it okay. I think it's one of the, like you said, lesser Kubricks. I think it's one of the best movies about a guy named Barry. I don't know if I'd put in the five best of that year. In fact I almost surely wouldn't. But you know, you can kind of understand, especially with the Oscars, like they like big, epic, costume-y movies And it is. I like that. It's one of those, but it is kind of a bit off. It's a bit strange. The plot is sort of unconventional, it's very meandering and kind of doesn't really have much of a climax to it. He just kind of fucks off. 

    0:14:40 - Speaker 3

    I feel like if you're gonna do the epic thing well, you have to hang it on some kind of propulsive story Cause the idea of this of a sort of existentialist epic, where it's kind of like an epic about our real life. 

    0:14:53 - Speaker 5

    But you know, like that's not a really as compelling kind of hook for me And that's like again it's like it's not, but it's kind of like it's an epic about a douchebag. 

    0:15:03 - Speaker 6


    0:15:04 - Speaker 3

    And only Cooper can make that movie, the epic about the douchebag. 

    0:15:08 - Speaker 2

    That is so Kubrickian and his sort of like view of the world, and I totally respect that he would make that movie. 

    0:15:13 - Speaker 3

    I don't love it. 

    0:15:14 - Speaker 4

    I wonder if I went into it. You know, because I went into it just expecting something that I wasn't gonna like and then I liked it. You know I'm digging in a little bit more than I might normally. I can't say for sure. But yeah, i did enjoy it, like I thought for sure when I saw, you know, two hours and 57 minutes. 

    0:15:31 - Speaker 2

    I was like I'm gonna be, terrible watching this. 

    0:15:33 - Speaker 3

    Can I put you on the spot? Sure, of the five movies that are nominated, four of them I would watch again in a heartbeat. This one, i would never watch again. 

    0:15:44 - Speaker 4

    There's one I wouldn't watch in a heartbeat. 

    0:15:45 - Speaker 3

    Again, i don't think Okay but this doesn't pass the watch again. Sort of test for me. 

    0:15:52 - Speaker 6

    And yet the funny thing is like it's almost assuredly coming to the box this fall And in my head I'm like I'm going. 

    0:15:59 - Speaker 3

    Yeah, I don't really want to. 

    0:16:01 - Speaker 6

    But it's one of the Kubrick's I've never seen on a big screen. 

    0:16:04 - Speaker 5

    I'm like you can really see what cards they're playing. Yeah. 

    0:16:08 - Speaker 2

    I understand the game. They'll actually be bad inside that anyway. 

    0:16:13 - Speaker 6

    It won't be watch it, and it won't be far off. 

    0:16:15 - Speaker 5

    I also don't want to say I do like some of the characters, the sort of supporting characters Like I think he stalks them with the interesting character actors and interesting faces. 

    0:16:26 - Speaker 6

    Yeah, yeah, and he's the butler. 

    0:16:28 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, and not the skinny face butler guy. 

    0:16:30 - Speaker 6

    I could not pay attention to a damn thing. anytime he was in the shot, i couldn't not look at his face. I don't know, i don't think I've seen him in anything before or since, but he has one like he has. 

    0:16:41 - Speaker 3

    well, it's just like you know same thing in Pas of Glory, Like when he does do period stuff, he never just chooses from the usual rogues gallery of the 95 people that are always in every period piece. 

    0:16:50 - Speaker 6

    It's always new, it's always different Yeah yeah, i think he yanked this guy out of a rogue painting. It's a here we go, yeah, yeah. 

    0:16:57 - Speaker 4

    I have a feeling if this movie were made now and this is one of the notes that it did take then to say this would have been like a sacrilege, but like I think it would have been a good. You know, over three nights or four nights on television, You know, oh sure, Because you're right, it doesn't have that sort of tightly wound, It feels like episodes, anyway all through it. 

    0:17:19 - Speaker 3

    Yeah, yeah, Like you can tell. Like I don't know when the book was written, but it feels very much of a piece of Tristram Shandy, Like it's a kind of like let's just take a walk through the sky. You know, like there's not really a compelling like thing that's gonna happen, or copper, i think I've ever heard that before. It's just like that. It's just like let's more stuff that's gonna happen you know, that's why there's no, that's why there's no. 

    good like a copperfield movie really, because it's really meandering kind of episode-based thing. I think that the thing about the what I'm sort of discovering now, is that literature from kind of like the late 1700s or late 1800s is all about the fact that they didn't have TV Right, so it's just it's episodes right, like Three Musketeers, is just fucking episodes And that's how a lot I don't know about Three Musketeers, but like a lot of Dickens books were like serialized. 

    Like they were written like So Three Musketeers was also serialized. Okay, yeah, there you go. So this kind of feels like a piece of television, exactly So they have little beginnings and endings all through them, but they don't really have and this feels the same, like it doesn't, even though it's illustrating a consistent thing, it's doing it with a bunch of disparate kind of things happening, yeah. 

    0:18:27 - Speaker 4

    Let's start down the road to Nashville. 

    0:18:29 - Speaker 6


    0:18:32 - Speaker 4

    I'm curious. I'm curious what you guys think of this. 

    0:18:35 - Speaker 6

    I'm curious to think that that's the other one you didn't like. 

    0:18:38 - Speaker 3

    I think it's totally possible to dislike Nashville. It's very possible. It's very possible. I totally love Nashville. I don't think it's my favorite film, but I totally love it. It's hard not to love it. It's so expansive, maybe my favorite ultimate film. 

    0:18:52 - Speaker 6

    Actually, it's out there for me Yeah. 

    0:18:56 - Speaker 4

    I Walk me through this, cause you're right, this is the film that I wouldn't go so far as to say I would never watch it again. In fact, you know, based on what you guys say, it might make me need to re-watch this, right? But yeah, i certainly wasn't in love with it. 

    0:19:11 - Speaker 6

    The one thing I've said, i think, every single time I've sat down on your show, is the way a best picture should be of its time. And if somebody wanted to paint a picture of America in 1975, it's Nashville. It's this place that has got a whole bunch of things going on at once. that is a year away from its great big red, white and blue hoopla being 200 years old and a year apart from its one of its greatest catastrophes for its leader. And it's at this point, in the middle of these two moments, when it doesn't really know what it is. 

    And meanwhile, in amongst this greater whole of an idea of America, you have this idea of Nashville, which is a very, very conservative place yet at the same time, is very inviting to the common person. So the idea the best way I heard it described is before American Idol, there was Nashville, so where one person with one guitar and one suitcase could go to this place and potentially get discovered and become famous. And that's why you see that happening over and over in this movie to various degrees of success is because that was the way it was And the way it still is, like Garth Brooks, within 30 years ago, was discovered just singing in one of these cafes that we see in this movie. So that's the thing for me is in 1975. 

    0:20:31 - Speaker 5


    0:20:31 - Speaker 6

    Nashville sums it up very loosely, and that's Kurt saying he is not gonna be here. 

    0:20:40 - Speaker 4

    I'm sorry. Good timing, kurt. Yeah, that's right at the end of your sentence. 

    0:20:45 - Speaker 3

    You just watched it for the first time. 

    0:20:46 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, i'd never seen it before. I liked it. I'd sort of been saving it because a lot of my friends it's their favorite all men movie or one of their favorite movies. I almost had the opposite reaction to the reaction everyone had to Barry Lyndon. Even though it's almost as long, i kind of felt like I wanna revisit this soon. Now that I've kind of seen the whole thing, i wanna watch it again and really sort of pick out those individual moments where, as the first time I was watching it, i was kind of for the first hour at least, kind of trying to get a handle on what the sort of overall architecture of this movie was or was going to be. 

    I did end up liking it quite a bit, but it is an unusual movie. I don't quite know how I feel about it And I don't know if I will until I see it again, which sounds a bit strange. But I liked it. I liked the cast, i liked how Audit got, i liked how, like you said, it's very timely Like it is about this kind of almost undefined sort of period in American history where we definitely have a lot of sort of remnants of the 60s. There's sort of this Peter Paul and Mary kind of surrogates in here and they're breaking apart at the seams or kind of. Yeah, it's just this kind of automalgam of things going on, i would say. Actually, what I just mentioned is one thing I kind of didn't like about it was the fact that there were all these sort of stand-ins for a well-known artist. There's like fake Loretta Lynn, fake Peter Paul and Mary. That kind of took me out of it a bit. I wish that maybe all of them Just like the real people. 

    Or print out their own personalities. Yeah, yeah, but. 

    0:22:25 - Speaker 2

    Ali Aguld in there is someone else, so random right And Julie Christie. 

    0:22:31 - Speaker 6

    I think the one thing, though, is that that's kind of the archetype still to this day, kind of the archetype of what you have in terms of Nashville, in terms of the music, like you'll have, the one thing they didn't have because it was really a thing in 75 was the one that trickles over to being Warhol Rockstar. The closest we get with that is Karateen, because he's the one that they're all fawning over. But they didn't have, like, the 1975 equivalent of, like the Keith Urban, because there was none. But that's the thing, thank. 

    0:22:57 - Speaker 5


    0:22:59 - Speaker 6

    But that was. I think that's the thing why they all seem so very Loretta Lynn-like and George Jones-like. 

    0:23:04 - Speaker 3

    It's just the state of the music industry, Yeah yeah, and that was you know. 

    0:23:08 - Speaker 6

    country was compartmentalized into just four by very, very. 

    0:23:11 - Speaker 5

    But I think it does get specific, especially in terms of like her look and what and like her manager, husband, yeah, and that can be a trick. 

    0:23:18 - Speaker 3

    I just think, apart from the specific details of what, the sort of who the characters are, because I think that is all super important, One of the things about Nashville that's so like that, I think, for especially people at the time that certainly feel me watching it, is that there are so many characters and yet they're so delineated and you just totally wanna follow all. For me, I wanna follow all of those characters, and it's a huge group of them. But it also, like it falls into like every culture has a movie, I think, or many cultures in the world in their film kind of history, have like a movie that on some level is like here's everything in the culture in one movie. So, like for French films, it's the rules of the game. Rules of the game has all the French people in the world in one movie. And in Italy it's La Dolce Vida. La Dolce Vida has all the Italians, It has the this level of Italians and it has the lower levels and has the upper levels and has the this movie. Is that for America? 

    0:24:14 - Speaker 5

    I thought it was a man man man world. Well, that's true too. That has many people in it. 

    0:24:20 - Speaker 3

    But that's more about all the people that are in cartoons. You're right. 

    0:24:24 - Speaker 5

    So you're saying you place a higher premium on these actors as opposed to the three Stooges, Correct? 

    0:24:29 - Speaker 2

    yeah, yeah. 

    0:24:32 - Speaker 3

    I just I guess what I am saying is that That that that thing of like being the hinge point of of depicting a whole culture is, is in Nashville. It's the hinge, it's the thing, it's the crucible through which all the other movies before and since, kind of in terms of just how you view, like whatever America is, i can't divorce it from that movie. 

    So there's before that movie and after that movie, kind of, and it just yeah, like, at least for me It that's how it feels. It feels like like it's like the individual stories are interesting, but it's that. It's that thing where the movie ends and you're like well, that was a sum total of something like that was. 

    0:25:14 - Speaker 4

    Just can't get past the fact that you know, jeff, go blew him in a movie and not let him talk. 

    0:25:20 - Speaker 5

    We're really stop it. I think his wardrobe did the talking. 

    0:25:29 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, i didn't. Yeah, i wouldn't go so far as to say I didn't, i didn't like it. It just it meandered for me it was all over the place and maybe, again, maybe I was not, no, in the right place, my head was swiveling a little too much. I will tell you this I watched that movie on my computer, not on my television. 

    0:25:43 - Speaker 3


    0:25:44 - Speaker 4

    Maybe, maybe that had something to do with it. Yeah, yeah but yeah, it was. 

    0:25:52 - Speaker 3

    You kind of have to immerse yourself in it, i think. 

    0:25:55 - Speaker 6

    I think it just requires you to be just because so many, so many of the scenes like they've got so many people in them. 

    0:26:00 - Speaker 3

    You're looking what's going on, yeah, and it's, yeah, it's also the movie where he absolutely Perfects that thing of the long zooms and the multiple conversations and the multiple mics all coming at once and the pulling and sort of layering of stuff. Like he got closer and closer and closer and like I think the cave is probably a Really good example of it and mash is a pretty good example of it, but this is like it's the best email that did that thing up. Like we're gonna have a room with 200 people. They're already talking and you're kind of gonna hear them all, not the top. 

    0:26:32 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, it almost feels like one, and maybe this, i don't know, but one Continued. Yeah, you're following your yes. 

    0:26:38 - Speaker 3

    Yeah, yeah, journalists right, and and just like yeah, and just like I mean and I think if you're watching that, on a smaller screen and you're kind of it's it's harder to like Part of like I'm thinking of, like The Orson Welles movie with a really long take at the trial, no, the one with a touch of you. Yeah, like the whole movie of touch of evil is not that good, but that opening shot is so good that it kind of elevates everything else that you see after it And. 

    I think like when you can establish just that technical level of mastery right away and be like boom, like my drop by, just I own. 

    0:27:12 - Speaker 5

    You know that you, you, it elevates the rest of it. I know what, when I like, i watch it on a you know a larger TV. So, yeah, i wish I could have seen in the theater, but you can pick out like there's always Someone in the background that's doing something that we've seen before, or an actor showing up. 

    Like it feels like he's created this space where these characters kind of Yeah and so sometimes you do Pinpoint little things, even though they might not be sort of spectacular big screen Things, i think on a larger screen you might sort of notice details, and that's probably why I want to watch it again. I want to. I feel like a lot of those probably went over my head the first time and I think a lot of If we want to just talk influence. 

    0:27:53 - Speaker 3

    A lot of that shows up in a lot of other movies. That thing of weaving in Stuff like Pulp Fiction, like that thing of like stuff happening in the background that you've actually. You can later on you connect the dots and be like Oh, these were all half of Paul St Andersen's career. Well, he's a. You know he's a devote. Yeah, famously, anderson quit for a while just to assist All his last couple of movies. Yeah, so he's absolutely huge. 

    0:28:17 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, you see it in a bunch of movies, but yeah, yep, yeah, i think, yeah, i think that pretty much covers that I mean with that national. 

    0:28:26 - Speaker 3

    There's no Magnolia, for sure. Oh, that's, that's for sure. 

    0:28:31 - Speaker 2

    No, he nights either, probably not it's that's. 

    0:28:33 - Speaker 3

    That was mortis Corsese. I think in some ways It's also the fight. 

    0:28:37 - Speaker 5

    I remember when I saw Magnolia, like when it first came out, i was in high school and I was like, oh, this is what an important, different kind of movie, right. And then, a few years later I think, i saw short cuts. I was like, oh well, this is where that came from. And now I'm saying natural, like, oh well, this is really the origin. 

    0:28:53 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, totally Yeah. So you say that boom. But yeah, switch one off. 

    0:28:57 - Speaker 3

    In my head I I think what's really interesting is this is the year as a total where it's so clear that without television, drama in the 50s like half of these movies don't happen, like Altman and We're gonna talk about Cindy Lumet and dog day and we're gonna talk about Jaws and Spielberg came on the TV and like and like, like it's. It's so beholden to TV as a sort of training ground, so which I'm not sure like the visually. These movies are so expensive and they're so beyond TV. But there's something about those people's ability to jungle actors and kind of get you know Really quickly get great performances out of people. So you can have a movie with 35 speaking roles, major speaking roles, and you can actually direct them all effectively because he comes out of like shooting live Playoffs, 90s and stuff, or it's like I had no time to spend with you on that. That level of economy, i think, is part of what makes this great and what makes him kind of great. 

    0:29:55 - Speaker 4

    We just mentioned dog day and I think that after talking about two giant movies like big epic sprawling movies, dog is sort of our bottle, the bottle episode Where you guys on dog afternoon, i Really love this movie. 

    0:30:15 - Speaker 5

    I I hadn't seen it in a while and I still love it. It's great every time you watch it. Yeah it's just all time So there's nothing I I can say About it really in any kind of negative capacity. I just thought it's really it's a great summer movie too, like it feels so of that, like you feel like you're there watching this very visceral. 

    0:30:35 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, sweaty and Like I was claustrophobic, yeah, sort of claustrophobic, i mean I don't know why it's, it's enough space, but I felt the. you know, it's because of that shot of the dog. 

    0:30:48 - Speaker 2

    Anytime the calendar turns over August, i start thinking about you know, but I'm due to watch dog. 

    0:30:53 - Speaker 6

    Has anybody seen the dog? 

    0:30:54 - Speaker 3

    or whatever. 

    0:30:55 - Speaker 6

    No, I've never heard that so so yeah. 

    0:30:57 - Speaker 3

    I'm only curious because this movie is so good. Right, yeah, there is this, there's this documentary about the actual guy, because it's a real. That's not a real. Right, yes, right. And the weird for me, the weird, amazing achievement about dog day is that totally contextualist, like as a person who grew up in the 1980s and saw this movie on home video and and I know Virtually and certainly at the time I do virtually nothing about kind of 1970s urban history, about New York City, the scene where he shows Attica, you still go fuck. Yeah. 

    0:31:27 - Speaker 5

    I don't know anything. 

    0:31:29 - Speaker 2

    I don't. 

    0:31:29 - Speaker 3

    I still don't really know what he's talking about. It still makes you go like they're right at a cut, you know it just the movie puts you in so Compellingly to what he's doing, he's doing, he's doing, doing he's spectacular in this movie. Yes, So the women, if all the women in the bank are amazing. They're all great Yeah. 

    0:31:48 - Speaker 5

    I, you're Al Pacino, i to show How, how far he's come Or how duty is in this movie. I should say I was. I watched it up at my cottage and we're getting the newspaper, i think the. The day before we watched dog day afternoon and we're reading The tiff announcements and there was a movie with, or I can't remember which movie is Al Pacino And did you guys? 

    see someone, someone's new movie and someone we talked about was like, oh, this movie is coming to tiff and I was like, oh, who's in it? and then my wife said Al Pacino. And I went, oh, and we're like, yeah, i know Al Pacino. And then we watched dog day afternoon. It was just holy shit. This guy was so Just on top of his game, just sir, when he had more than one registered for his boy. 

    0:32:35 - Speaker 4

    I just love that he let himself be so uncool, you know like, you know, so Raw and vulnerable, yeah, when he's sliding around, when he's running back and forth, when they, when they first, when the cops first sort of Uh, come into contact with him and he's just he's sliding across the bank floor like he's frantic and he's absolutely out of control And there's just something so uncool. 

    0:32:55 - Speaker 6

    Even, just even just the robbery itself, like it's, it's, it's clear, like he had it all mapped out in his head, but the actual execution of it It's not. You know, to use a terrible example as a counterpoint, it's not the bank heist at the beginning of the dark night where they're just, where everything has just been like clocked down to the second. 

    0:33:11 - Speaker 2

    Yes, you know, this is all very okay, yeah, i got this the biggest idea. Yeah, yeah, no words. 

    0:33:16 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, You know, and he's like yeah, and his voice is all like pieces out, like Yeah, so it's just watching him. 

    0:33:23 - Speaker 6

    You know he's got the plan, He knows what he's supposed to do, but what you actually like execute with any kind of level of confidence is just not there. 

    0:33:30 - Speaker 5

    And that's that's so realistic too, like I feel, like anything I try to do with my friends, one of them will bail. 

    0:33:35 - Speaker 3

    Right, yeah, that makes sense, and one of them will be John Kazal, so that's no good, yeah, how have we not talked about John Kazal? Well, we need to talk about, because I think, to your point, was it? 

    0:33:44 - Speaker 5

    Kazal. I've always said Kazaly and now I feel like I'm wrong. 

    0:33:47 - Speaker 3

    I think it's Kazal, but I guess I it's a guy I'm trying to remember from an interview, but I anyway. But yeah, he is the unsung hero of 1970s because he's a dear hunter in this and the two godfathers, right. 

    0:33:57 - Speaker 2


    0:33:59 - Speaker 5

    And those were the only kind of movies he made pretty much. 

    0:34:02 - Speaker 3

    You know, if you look at every like there's a guy that had to earn his way on just into front of the camera. He really didn't like go, or people did not go that you need to be photographing, and then he died. 

    0:34:14 - Speaker 5

    And then he died and I think, like he was, uh living with meryl street or dating meryl street for a? 

    0:34:19 - Speaker 3

    long time. I think, yeah, and and it's just like He's. He's this incredible counterbalance to all these Really strong actors like like Pacino and De Niro. Right, and especially in Pacino's case, if you look at what happened, like the progression of him right after Kazal died because he did cruising and like Princess, it like like he. 

    All of a sudden he became the opportunity that we are talking about derisively And it's almost as if Kazal was like his spirit animal or something like he was the only one keeping it like On the level, like just imagine him doing, cruising, and then Kazal showed up and being like Dude we work so hard. 

    0:35:06 - Speaker 5

    I think what stands, or where this movie sort of stands apart from other Pacino movies too At least the ones that sort of come to mind now, like the godfather and movies around that time Is this almost a one-man show and there's a lot of other great actors but it all rests on him And there's so many great close-ups of him that sort of long takes of him and it's just uh, he is Just the star and the focus of this movie and we really get to see what he can do. 

    0:35:29 - Speaker 3

    And just play scared. so well, like you, wonder why he doesn't play scared more, because he's so You see it like you, just he doesn't have to see it He wants to be, he wants to be cool like all the time. 

    0:35:39 - Speaker 5

    I just see it right. Yeah, How about a movie where i'm the devil? 

    0:35:47 - Speaker 3

    There is a comment to be had about that Pacino playing this movie Like that and being like. 

    0:35:56 - Speaker 6

    How to come. 

    0:35:57 - Speaker 3

    I can only imagine him reading his last will. 

    0:35:59 - Speaker 4

    At best, I'll touch that a lot. 

    0:36:04 - Speaker 5

    I remember reading, uh, or hearing somewhere that, uh, christopher Nolan said that when they made insomnia, uh, when he's directing Pacino, pacino would start out crazy, cartoonishly big And stop him. Be like what are you doing? And he's like, no, no, i do that on purpose. I hit like 11 and then in the later takes I can, sort of new, find the nuances. That's like it. I don't. I don't think he's finding those nuances. 

    0:36:31 - Speaker 3

    But also if you're al Pacino and whoever, whatever director, you're working with now idolizes you. Do you make him? do? 

    0:36:36 - Speaker 5

    take eight, take nine Right you don't let him get there, right, you're just like oh no, i guess this is the best You're gonna like. 

    0:36:41 - Speaker 3

    Unless he tells the person, unless the person has a temerity to go up to al Pacino, i don't think you're doing the best workout like which. Who's gonna do that right? So, maybe the devil, yeah, maybe his path is not And he, i imagine he's a method guy. Imagine he would have lived in this part. 

    0:37:00 - Speaker 5

    He robbed a bank. for this role He went to jail for a long time. 

    0:37:03 - Speaker 3

    He also famously went halfway towards sexual reassignment. 

    0:37:09 - Speaker 5

    And also a great supporting cast uh, chris sarandon, and uh uh Uh. We actually just did the princess bride on our podcast, So it was interesting seeing those two movies within a week. Yeah, yeah, very different chris sarandon roles. 

    0:37:21 - Speaker 3

    Yeah, yeah, uh, charles Sturning. Sturning is so great and this is the perfect part for during. He should always be a cop, right, yeah, and he's so like. Uh, what I like about Charles Sturning is he's he's great at showing sort of like intense, inappropriate frustration. Like even when he's intensely frustrated, you can tell there's this thing in his voice where he's like I'm fucking this up, i can't be this angry right now, i'm gonna bring it down. 

    0:37:48 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, so there's a. 

    0:37:52 - Speaker 3

    I mean, I think it's neat that it comes out the same year as Nashville, because they feel like two different ways of showing something interesting about America Where it is at that moment, and this one feels very much New York. 

    0:38:01 - Speaker 6

    That's what we're talking about. Well, urban, you know we were talking before we went on about how the American cities there's two or three of them that have a very, very distinct character And like I don't see this as being said in Cincinnati, you know, that kind of thing, that kind of closeness of everybody on top of each other, yeah, and like the dead of summer, when everybody's really bloody irritated, you know, and just anybody can like go on edge, that this, this is where the story takes place. 

    0:38:26 - Speaker 5

    It's very, again, it's very much of its time and place And the fact that, like it's an anti-authoritarian hero, Like the reason why the you know this neighborhood sort of rallied around him, This is because he was, you know, saying fuck you to the cops, Yeah. 

    0:38:41 - Speaker 6

    And while cameras rolled and caught it all. 

    0:38:43 - Speaker 2


    0:38:43 - Speaker 6

    This is also where we got everybody really wanting to be famous right Like same sort of thing as Nashville, where everybody all of a sudden really wants to be famous because TV is much bigger than it was and Tablo Journal is much bigger than it was. So, everybody wants to be famous just for doing something. So seeing somebody out there, seeing something where somebody is kind of grabbing their moment in front of you, But I also think it's like like a lot of the best 70s movies are about this distrusting authority. 

    0:39:06 - Speaker 5

    Whether it's the police or the government, And I feel like the fact that everyone was celebrating this bank robber is really we're talking about the other. 

    0:39:13 - Speaker 6

    There's other to cheer him up. 

    0:39:14 - Speaker 3

    Yeah, exactly, and also the fact that, at that point in time, new York City itself is basically bankrupt And that the people who live in New York are so angry about the fact that this city, which is supposed to be the greatest city, is basically like a crumbling ruin, yeah, yeah, when he goes into the vault and there's and there's money. 

    0:39:32 - Speaker 5

    It's a perfect. It's a perfect like I'm showing up in New York. 

    0:39:34 - Speaker 4

    I'm going to be big, i'm going to be big. 

    0:39:36 - Speaker 3

    And it's like there's a thousand dollars here. What just occurred? to me is that which I'm surprised, has never occurred to me before but, weirdly, if you take these two films and mash them together, you actually get do the right thing. Oh yeah, mash Nashville and Dog Day together, kind of get through the right thing. You get this big movie set in one of the hottest days in New York City with all kinds of characters. 

    0:39:56 - Speaker 4

    Are you listening? internet? There's your cue. There's your cue. I want to see a supercut. There's a 35 foot shark in the room? Yes, there is. We're not talking about it all, and I think we should probably give it some, give it some love, give it a hug. 

    0:40:13 - Speaker 3

    I don't care for this. That's good You guys watch. 

    0:40:17 - Speaker 6

    Jaws 4, right, Jaws 2 has been on TV a lot. 

    0:40:22 - Speaker 4

    It's a shark with a water skier in front of it. 

    0:40:24 - Speaker 3

    We had a conversation a while ago where we were talking about maybe it was the Back to the Future one where we were like, oh, we're apocalypse now. And we were like what do we really need to say? Because I feel like everybody kind of knows how great this movie is. I feel like Jaws is in the same. It's so great and I'm trying to figure out a person who is like I don't care for Jaws. Jaws is great. 

    0:40:44 - Speaker 4

    Jaws is yeah, yeah, is that what we're going to do when we're sitting here in Gutch? You're right. if that's the case, Well, I can tell a funny story. 

    0:40:51 - Speaker 3

    Tell a funny story. So my father's not good with scary movies particularly, and Jaws came out in 1975 and so I was four. He and my mother were definitely not going to see the scary movie, so he went by himself to see this scary movie, that he's not good at scary movies. 

    And then he drove home suitably freaked out And on the way home he kept hearing sounds like water sounds in the car, to the point where he was driving and whipping his head around and turning it around and stuff. But what was happening? And he came in completely Wacken has, completely freaked out, and my mother said, oh, there's a case of apple juice in the car. 

    0:41:36 - Speaker 5

    And then, if this were a movie, he'd open up the trunk to get the apple juice in the car, just a shark bail. Yeah, i mean I was just going to say I feel like, looking back, it's easy to say that Jaws was sort of like the populist choice, like the blockbuster that they stuck on here. But I mean, i think like we all agree, it's one of the best movies of all time. 

    And I think what people forget or wouldn't maybe acknowledge, looking at this in terms of the other five movies, is how incredibly subversive it is. I mean, we're talking about movies of their time. I mean, i've always read Jaws as an allegory for the Vietnam War. 

    0:42:16 - Speaker 3

    Well, it's certainly the most pop cultural way of getting at the mistrust of authority, much more than dog days. 

    0:42:23 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, exactly, really about saying, and also like the divide in men and masculinity and sort of like reuniting these three men, the sort of pacifist Richard Dreyfus and the war hero Robert Shaw, and then started stuck in the middle is Brody, who's kind of his father, who's willing to defend his family, but he he just has violence because he was a cop and he he killed someone or something. So that's when I took this job. This is an incredibly important movie for this time, if that's sort of the lens we're looking through these movies. 

    0:42:56 - Speaker 3

    I tend to agree. I feel like the Oaks are good. 

    0:42:59 - Speaker 6

    No, i well. The thing when I think about this movie is certainly, like I said, i was an Oscar movie, because that's why we're here. There's two things I always wonder about is one what would have happened if this movie had one best picture? What would that have done to Spielberg's career? You know, it would have been a case of too much too soon, but he just not had gone on. Geez, if only he had been a success. Well, that's like you know, yeah it's, it's. 

    0:43:23 - Speaker 2

    I know I want it. 

    0:43:24 - Speaker 6

    You know how long it kept him hungry doing all of these movies that had a lot going on, that were pop movies that our current pop movies just can. 

    0:43:32 - Speaker 3

    So you think if it didn't recognize more it would have negatively? absolutely Yeah, he would have posted through big budgets and not have to fight. 

    0:43:42 - Speaker 6

    Yeah, that's my thought is is there is something to be said, sometimes for too much, too soon. The other thing I wonder about as well, you know, on the flip side is what would have happened if the damn shark had a warrant? 

    0:43:55 - Speaker 3

    Because, because that's the big city had to shoot around it. 

    0:43:58 - Speaker 6

    That's what I thought, Yeah you know, like that's a lot of what makes don't even remember the stuff that you're talking about for sure, with the emotional resonance of the men in this movie. That's all in the screenplay. Like he had that from the word go, because he was basically tearing up the book and putting it back to me in his own way. That was there from the start, but I feel that that might have been buried if the damn shark kind of worked and we would have been able to see it more and see what he was able to do with it, even though he said famously I don't want to show up for the first act. 

    0:44:26 - Speaker 5

    You know, yeah, you know, and that's the other thing is it's hard to sort of speculate because you know, for they could have had a working, you know, motorized shark, filmed all those scenes, then gone in the editing room and been like, hey, you know what. it actually cuts together better when we don't see the shark Like who knows what. 

    0:44:42 - Speaker 6

    Yeah, exactly, and that's like with both of them. 

    0:44:43 - Speaker 3

    We don't know, i also think, given the state of technology movie technology in 1974, 73, 74, when he was filming this, there is no universe that exists where that shark would have worked. 

    0:44:55 - Speaker 5

    I think people would have told him it could work. 

    0:44:59 - Speaker 6

    Well, it all came down to if he had filmed it in a tank, like Universal wanted him to do. It was because they put it out there and Martha's Vineyard in the salt water that it just started screwing up like no tomorrow. 

    0:45:08 - Speaker 4

    They wanted it shot in a tank. They wanted to show him a tank. 

    0:45:11 - Speaker 6

    Yeah, they absolutely saw that because that was every undersea, like every underwater adventure up until then had all been shot in this tank. That's why, and that's why they look so damn terrible. 

    0:45:22 - Speaker 5

    Well, they did some stuff in the tank right, like the sea worries and the cage which your driver's is down in the tank. Yeah, they did some of that. 

    0:45:27 - Speaker 6

    I think they didn't do something with real sharks. 

    0:45:30 - Speaker 3

    Well, they did, They cut it. but they're not like sharks, but they're like little, but yeah, they were still wanting him to do like sharks, And he's like no, we're gonna. 

    0:45:37 - Speaker 5

    We want you to film it. Jaws the ride. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

    0:45:43 - Speaker 3

    I do think that the interesting thing for me when you say like if it had won so famously adult field, is both could ever have one in that year, because and they sort of the comparison I would draw is this for me in movies is where music was around 1963. So this is the breaking point. Like for a long time in music what was popular and what was considered highly accomplished were actually mostly the same thing. Like what was what was popular in pop music was also what was popular on Broadway or what was popular in sort of film musicals like those were the popular songs. So what Bing Crosby was singing, which was like a parade popular music, that was also just what Rogers and Hammerstein were writing. 

    Right, the break is the Beatles. The break is the invasion a little bit before with Rock and Roll, yeah, but the real break in terms of like widespread, it's like in 1963, the biggest songs come out of My Fair Lady. Those are like the big hits, not so much in 1964. That's where it breaks off right Exchange And Jaws is the break. Jaws is where the big, important movies are no longer. They're really the popcorn movies, the movies that we think of as being low culture or popular culture. They're actually the more important movies than the high culture movies, whatever that means. This is the break, so it's not possible for, i think, the people who are voting on it to actually perceive that that just happened. 

    0:47:04 - Speaker 2

    It's a lot of ways. It's actually a wonder that it got nominated. 

    0:47:09 - Speaker 6

    I feel that if that movie came along now that it just it wouldn't happen. 

    0:47:13 - Speaker 4

    Was it an achievement? It was an achievement, non, is that why it was? It was hard to ignore. 

    0:47:20 - Speaker 6

    It became the biggest movie of all time at the box office. And yeah, when I was here on the 1993 show, i said that every film except for one that became the biggest box office phenomenon went on to also get a picture nomination. So it's almost like you can't ignore it. And that was the thing, is that even if they wanted to, i don't think they could, just because it was able to do that And not care what the Godfather, which had happened three years prior. 

    0:47:45 - Speaker 5

    Right, but I think, because of that sort of financial reason, that it sort of started the blockbuster. They released it in more theater simultaneously. All these things have sort of led to the way we sort of digest summer blockbuster. 

    It established the summer, summer Yeah which, which you know, some people might think is a negative thing, and obviously it shifted attention away from sort of art house films that were the mainstream. Yeah, i think, because we sort of perceive it that way, historically, people forget just. I mean, people know how great JAWS is, but I think when you stack it up against these other movies, i think it absolutely deserves to be there. I even think it might be the best of the five. 

    0:48:21 - Speaker 3

    I think it's a great movie. I think it's easily argued to be the most influential of the five. Sure, for those reasons you just mentioned. 

    0:48:26 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, but even just in terms of the things we've been talking about, in terms of sort of cultural reflections, in terms of even like, some of my favorite moments in the movie are the small moments like where it with Brody and his son, where he sounds like mimicking him And he doesn't realize it's so touching And it's like the small moments, just the fact that, no matter how many times you see this movie, i always forget about the dead dude in the boat. 

    0:48:49 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, I forget every time. 

    0:48:52 - Speaker 3

    And every time I like yeah. 

    0:48:55 - Speaker 4

    I jumped out of my chair I rewatched a few scenes this morning because I hadn't seen it in a while And I absolutely landed on that scene and watched it like an idiot, Thinking I couldn't you know, thinking I would beat it. And I did not beat it even. 

    0:49:10 - Speaker 3

    No, and just every time you're like what the? 

    0:49:12 - Speaker 6

    oh my God. 

    0:49:14 - Speaker 4

    I got this coming up. 

    0:49:17 - Speaker 5

    I don't know if you guys want to re-release recently, but people screamed in the theater, really Yeah. 

    0:49:23 - Speaker 3

    And that was how I introduced it to my son, who was 13, and it's like the perfect movie to show a 13 year old. Yeah, i continue. It's uh, i actually wondered because start with this like the summer movie season, the fact there was no summer movie season. Has anyone put together when the majority of theaters got air conditioning? 

    0:49:40 - Speaker 6

    I'm just, i'm serious because one of the reasons nobody saw movies in the service because it's so hot. 

    0:49:45 - Speaker 4

    No, this is it. 

    0:49:46 - Speaker 5

    I was talking about the future last night That's what I was thinking. They had the advertising for the theater in 1955. 

    0:49:51 - Speaker 6

    I'm delightfully air conditioned. 

    0:49:52 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, that's exactly what I was worried about. Yeah that's May though. 

    0:49:57 - Speaker 6

    They turn it off in. 

    0:49:58 - Speaker 2


    0:49:59 - Speaker 5

    It just brights to spines a library but also back to the future, wasn't real. And I just see on your bookshelf you have easy riders, raging bulls. Yeah, i remember in the movie of that that was like the end of the movie. They're like jaws Before raging bullet, like jaws kind of killed it. Like we were making all these interesting movies and then just came along and then the same week I watched there was a new Documentary about Star Wars. I was on TV and it was like before Jaws and Star Wars, hollywood was making upsetting, weird movies that were dark and about Unlikeable characters. So there's two documentaries completely different viewpoints on. 

    0:50:37 - Speaker 3

    I mean, you can argue the good and the bad, but you can't argue the fact that jaws to change the movie business from a kind of money losing vanity business that a bunch of weirdos Like if you one things it's great about that easy riders, raging bulls is that the people that own the studios like the ones Is named blue dwarf the guy that owned Elven Lester Yeah they are weirdos, man. 

    0:50:59 - Speaker 2

    They're nuts right and they don't care what I mean. 

    0:51:01 - Speaker 3

    It's a. It's a hobby for them. It took it from being a hobby to being like a major business. 

    0:51:06 - Speaker 4

    Well, just to give you the box office from that year, just the 240 million bucks. Rocky horror was a hundred forty No. 

    0:51:13 - Speaker 3

    I have to correct you. These are lifetime figures from I am to be their lifetime figures There's no, a rocky horror made 140 million in 1970. It has made 140 million. Okay, you can't make that much, only playing Saturday nights at midnight. Yeah Yeah, it's a misleading figure. 

    0:51:29 - Speaker 4

    So who's this is 112, and then the next movie is 31 million bucks like after that it drops, yeah, yeah. It drops like substantial. I guess that's what I was trying to illustrate, but but fair enough. 

    0:51:40 - Speaker 3

    The jaws made the majority. That's money in that year, and it's just. It's a staggering Considering what the next would be like. Well, it's, i mean. The only other example I have is Titanic, like where one movie makes 1.8 billion and the next closest makes 300 million. There's not even, not even close. 

    0:51:58 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, i thought that was. I was writing it down. It seems odd to me, other than the fact that the pop popular wise it was a it was ranked up there as well. Well, let's, let's go into cookies next, which also was high up there. We're talking about movies that do something substantial. Yeah, at the Oscars, i mean, this movie ran the board of the big big awards for fun and profit. 

    0:52:21 - Speaker 3

    Everyone want to name the other two movies that have run the board. 

    0:52:24 - Speaker 5

    I know. 

    0:52:26 - Speaker 3

    Happen one night There you go only three times. Has a movie, one director, picture, actor, actress and screenplay? 

    0:52:31 - Speaker 6

    Yeah which which tells you, like, how hard that is to do. It's almost, and I almost say like it's, it's gonna be harder that much more now because the Academy seems to See the screenplay awards as a way to throw a bone to somebody who's who's done. There's somebody smaller or somebody who's done a few things at once, so, like this is where, like Quentin Tarantino tends to get it. 

    0:52:54 - Speaker 5

    It's like, well, we're not gonna be director, but that was a great script. 

    0:52:56 - Speaker 2

    It's a great script. Yeah, you know, or? 

    0:52:58 - Speaker 6

    or the ones that are really weird, like a turtle's on China. This bottle's mine. They got it. It's awesome. 

    0:53:02 - Speaker 3

    We can't give you an award. 

    0:53:03 - Speaker 2

    No, you can't give me something up for that. 

    0:53:05 - Speaker 6

    That's the thing. Because they're looking at the screenplay award in that light, it's gonna get that much harder to run the table of the other four. Sorry, the other four plus that. 

    0:53:15 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, are we in the same boat with this movie that we were with Jaws a moment ago? Is this? I don't know, because this was a movie that come into the table I didn't see before really Yeah. 

    0:53:29 - Speaker 3

    All these movies are like movies are like first time, what happened? you know, like it's so great that you fucking loved it. 

    0:53:35 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, i love it right, you had just you just released your episode the day I watched it, where you were talking about Fargo and TV shows. And I tweeted you immediately and was like I would. I don't want to besmirch the movie by saying It should be a TV show, but I mean, like I want these characters, i want to see them, i want to see them over and over again, before you know, before the end anyway. 

    0:53:57 - Speaker 3

    It's, it's, it's not possible. I play poker fairly regularly. Not possible for me to play without at some point in the evening going. I bet it died I just So hard every time, every time. 

    0:54:13 - Speaker 6

    Yeah, we, when I got that message from you and I can't remember you know, it did make it into the show too. I said like I would totally spend 12 hours like watching the characters Absolutely, and like I would want something like six hours or so to be performing her feet and shows up. 

    0:54:29 - Speaker 3

    I want to sit on the boat, nurse ratchet. I want to see that show of her home. 

    0:54:35 - Speaker 4

    Performances. Like I mean it. You know why I ran the board, or we need to give that a term, like I want to say triple crown, but it can't be a triple crown because there's more than three stories. 

    0:54:44 - Speaker 3

    It's the sweet. 

    0:54:45 - Speaker 4

    It just takes fucking every box Did you need a hug when it was over. It was really quite. Yeah, I was yeah. 

    0:54:52 - Speaker 3

    Yeah, it's, the bottomies are not easy to watch like it's just not easy to feel like like that movie, so got punches you with its ending, so effectively built up, i think again. 

    0:55:07 - Speaker 4

    We're going back to Pacino. You know Nicholson, just so good. 

    0:55:14 - Speaker 3

    He made two films this year. The other one is the passenger, with that Game like it's amazing. 

    0:55:22 - Speaker 5

    The thing I love about his performance in this movie is he does the Jack Nicholson shtick And then you see the moments where that doesn't work and it kind of gets deflated. 

    0:55:31 - Speaker 3

    Yeah, and he pulls. It's like he's deconstructing himself right in front of you Yeah. Yeah, oh, that's good, yeah, yeah, and and you know, i also, i read this. It's Amazing to read Oh yeah, how's the adaptation like? I? 

    mean nothing, not really like it, but no well, because the book is all from the chief's perspective, oh really, and that chief is the narrator But also, which is why he doesn't say anything in the movie, right boy makes that Simpsons episode make a lot worse. The the thing that I like with the book that's different is that Mc Murphy is much more like a traditional. He's like a sailor, i like Merchant seaman guy and he's and it's more about his kind of Nick doesn't have that Braggado show kind of traditional masculinity thing, he has his own thing. But it works equally as well. Yeah, it's not hoping heroes. 

    I mean the thing to keep in mind is that the reason that Michael Douglas is the producer is because this was produced option first. I produced as a play, as a starring vehicle for Kirk Douglas. Really, yes, kirk Douglas is Mc Murphy, so if you put Kirk Douglas in that role, you start to see how it's a very different kind of not worse, but very different Right. 

    0:56:45 - Speaker 5

    I think. I think also Kirk Douglas tried to get a movie made. 

    0:56:48 - Speaker 3

    Yes, for a long time. And he gave up and gave it to Michael and said, like what, you make a movie out of this. 

    0:56:52 - Speaker 5

    And he was too, because he was too old. 

    0:56:54 - Speaker 3

    Yeah, i'm still playing Murphy. Any, but he gave it to me was like I own this thing. It's really good. Take a whack at it, and that's why DeVito is in it, because they were roommates. Yeah, oh, there's all kinds of weird lore and history around. I love that aspect of this movie that it really like there's a whole backstory to how this movie even winds up getting me, yeah, behind the scenes. 

    0:57:14 - Speaker 6

    DVD is actually like, really like. I, when I first was buying DVDs, i like go through every feature And inevitably half the time I've had this is boring shit. But every once in a while you come across one of these making of docs that was actually really well done and that was one of them And it's got like a lot of these stories in it. I forgot because I haven't watched that dog so long, but yeah, like of how it was made and how everything came into into play. 

    0:57:37 - Speaker 4

    This is one that there is no doubt in my mind that, like of the five, this one will be on my next next watch list. First, like I can see this one being an Annual sort of viewing. I don't know if there's a period of time I would watch it. It's been a while for me, but I would totally watch this. 

    0:57:54 - Speaker 3

    We were talking on the side of this, just a boyhood and how good it is. I'm able to say, having seen it twice now And I think Dogleaf or Goofs and Spits into this as well that even like that, knowing what's going to happen actually makes you more emotional about what's happening and makes it have more impact. So the rewatches are better because it's like it's one thing to see the sort of turn at the end fresh and be like whacked in the face, but it's another thing to know that that is coming and see him act that knowing Because he knows Nicholson knows what's coming and he's read the script right, so see how he plays into that moment is so great. It's like a flawless kind of proficiency. 

    0:58:40 - Speaker 5

    And everything with Brad Durif knowing what happens is super hard to watch And, again, like great supporting cast, like everyone in the family. 

    0:58:51 - Speaker 6

    Holy shit, Vincent Giavelli. 

    0:58:53 - Speaker 3

    Who's going to play as? 

    0:58:54 - Speaker 6

    Martini, or sorry, not Martini who's going to play as Chadwick? Yeah, i don't know The ball. is that the ball? 

    0:59:00 - Speaker 2

    No, he's the one. He's the first one we see get the electroshock therapy. 

    0:59:04 - Speaker 6

    I'll tell you in a second. 

    0:59:05 - Speaker 3

    Because he's the one who's got it like. 

    0:59:07 - Speaker 6

    He's dialed back and very meek and very melissian, very VIP the whole time. But then when we see him lose it, it's really disturbing, and because he's been in this box the whole time and all of a sudden he's now and it's all over. 

    0:59:19 - Speaker 5

    I want my cigarettes. This is the line in the sand And you just like whoa wait a second And you didn't look that up on a mobile device, you went into your mind, palace. 

    0:59:32 - Speaker 3

    I wish. I my mind palace is mostly just like a tent that leads into a big house. 

    0:59:38 - Speaker 5

    Just like a mind camper. 

    0:59:40 - Speaker 6

    That's right. And Fletcher in this movie is just insane to play that, to play that heel that way. Yeah, because it could very easily turn into a cartoon. but to see somebody who knows the line of not even I was going to say passive, aggressive, but it's not even passive Really. it's just an authoritarian who is just not going to take any shit, but knows how to say it in a way that's not going to upset a person who's mentally unstable. 

    1:00:08 - Speaker 5

    It's friggin chilling And also with the thing I haven't seen this since I was like a student having like work snow, you get the sense from her that like she goes home and totally leaves her job there, like it's just so clinical and professional. That's what really creeped me about that. 

    1:00:25 - Speaker 4

    I don't know I can see her walking into the apartment hanging up her keys putting a record on Yeah. I get the feeling this is a home record. 

    1:00:33 - Speaker 5

    I know, it is, but that's what I mean. 

    1:00:35 - Speaker 6

    Oh, what her life is still like outside of this. 

    1:00:37 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, like she just goes home and like it doesn't. I don't know, There was just something about the professionalism of it that, just like. oh, I feel like. I feel like I've encountered people Obviously less severe than that, But in my life you know what I mean. Something rang more true or close to home than the first time I'd seen it. 

    1:00:53 - Speaker 6

    Yeah, And yeah, this time when I watched it, I think I got the most upset watching her get choked. 

    1:01:00 - Speaker 2

    Like this, like, don't get me wrong. 

    1:01:02 - Speaker 6

    You would think that a character like this, when they're finally like put under somebody's boot, the audience would be like fuck yeah. 

    1:01:08 - Speaker 5

    Or something like that. No, no, no. 

    1:01:10 - Speaker 6

    All of a sudden, when you see this happening, you're like, oh dear God, you know, and it's just. It's. That was why I had to do that. That's why I asked if you needed to hug when it was over, just because that moment that comes just five minutes before the end is so damn visceral. 

    1:01:23 - Speaker 3

    It's, it's Well, it's. The thing that this movie achieves. Which is really interesting to me is that it's fully subjective, like even though the chief is not actually narrating it, you realize that you haven't really seen her as who she actually is. You've actually only seen her how they see her. Yeah, yeah, it's amazingly cogent in how it's directed. 

    1:01:42 - Speaker 5

    Was I the only one that found her kind of attractive? 

    1:01:45 - Speaker 3

    No, I think you're supposed to totally find her. 

    1:01:46 - Speaker 5

    It's a uniform. 

    1:01:49 - Speaker 3

    It's the, it's the. Now it's the same reason that I'm weirdly turned on by the by the Joss No the aliens. I was supposed to say Joss The aliens, in in. Oh my God damn mind the clock. 

    1:02:05 - Speaker 2

    In aliens. 

    1:02:06 - Speaker 5


    1:02:07 - Speaker 3

    I'm weirdly turned on by women in positions of absolute authority. I think there's something there, Just uh. 

    1:02:14 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, I wish someone. 

    1:02:16 - Speaker 6

    Oh, we'll find another way. to be around here He's gonna say whoa. 

    1:02:19 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, I just want a woman to like put on a nice record and give me some pills. 

    1:02:23 - Speaker 4

    That I don't know what they do. You should come here Friday night, so you haven't played this game before. but what we do now is we want to go through the five and you know, basically you get to create your own ballot. 

    1:02:36 - Speaker 2

    Are we gonna talk about all three? 

    1:02:37 - Speaker 4

    So yeah, you need to basically take away. You know, like here were the original five, i want to pull these three off and add these three from this year and tell us a little bit about the films that you're adding up. 

    1:02:47 - Speaker 5

    Uh, i, you know it's such a good list of movies They're. It's a really good year. Uh, if I were to pull any off and sub any in. Well, one movie I watched for this because I looked at, like, all the movies that came out in 1975 and tried to find the ones that I hadn't seen that were supposed to be good. Uh, one that I hadn't seen was Three Days of the Condor, which I watched and I did not think was very good. Really. Yeah, you guys seen that movie recently. 

    1:03:14 - Speaker 3

    Yeah, I dug it. Three Days of the Condor is my absolute one of my near misses. I would put it on. Really, there's something else that I like more. 

    1:03:20 - Speaker 5

    but Robert Redford's such a dick in that movie. 

    1:03:24 - Speaker 2

    I like that in a way that's like interesting, he's just like really mean to Faye Dunnaway for no reason. 

    1:03:29 - Speaker 3

    Uh, it's not for no reason. 

    1:03:31 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, the reason is because he's a dick. No, He needs her to do certain things, i know, but then, even when it's like, she's like okay, it's all right, I'm going to help you Like we're friends now And he's just like all right, make me dinner. 

    1:03:43 - Speaker 3

    He never knows that she's for sure not working against him. It's a movie That movie is so. For me it's the essay on paranoia. It's the absolute hype of like what it is like to First of all it has my favorite opening setup thing for a thriller, which is that he goes to get lunch and comes back. 

    Oh yeah, i love the openings, yeah, but what's great about that? what's great about that for me when I watched it is that it sets up the whole rest of the movie of like every dickish thing he does is just like nothing. I can't trust anything. Everything is up for grabs. I have no idea who's a random and who's a real person. I have no idea whether anyone is telling the truth. I need to act accordingly. It's his ability to kind of sacrifice everything, because he literally doesn't know when the next thing is coming. 

    1:04:29 - Speaker 5

    I think he just gets away with a lot because he's handsome, like there's like a line where, like fate is always like you're being really mean to me. He's like oh, i didn't even try to rape you, that's not a joke. 

    1:04:41 - Speaker 2

    That's what he says in the movie. 

    1:04:44 - Speaker 5

    But everyone's okay. Okay, that's fine. Anyways, I liked it Okay. I didn't you know I love Pandora, but I, you know I, if we're up to me, i would It is. It is up to me Yes. 

    I would say take out Barry Lyndon Yeah, sub and the passenger, which I know is another Nicholson movie, but I didn't. I didn't get to rewatch it for this, but I saw maybe 10 years ago and the Antonioni movie. I think that's a great movie. Maybe a little weird for the Oscars. I also like. Looking at the list. I'm surprised that Man Who Would Be King isn't on here, just because it seems like the big kind of historical drama like today They'd probably give a nomination to. They probably got some like costume-y. 

    1:05:27 - Speaker 3

    It got some other stuff our direction and costume-y stuff. It's my I would totally Sub-Man Who Would Be King for Barry Lyndon. I feel like they're very similar and far superior to me, definitely. 

    1:05:38 - Speaker 5

    Well, if I'm just taking one off, I take Barry Lyndon and put a passenger on, but Man Who Would Be King would probably be like a sixth for me. 

    1:05:47 - Speaker 6

    This is one of those years where I'd actually keep it intact. This is a monster class. even though I'm not crazy about Barry Lyndon, as I said on an emotional level, i cannot deny just what it did in terms of achievement, like technical achievements. I'm like nope, this is as good quintet as you're going to get. 

    1:06:06 - Speaker 4

    It's a good list. 

    1:06:07 - Speaker 6

    I keep it intact. 

    1:06:09 - Speaker 3

    I also. I would lose Barry Lyndon for many of the same reasons. For me, it would be Man Who Would Be King, because I think that movie is The tits man. That is the greatest. I haven't actually seen that one. What's that one about? It's based on a Richard Kipling story. It stars Michael Cain and Sean Connery Oh cool And Christopher Plummer. Now you're talking about it. 

    1:06:30 - Speaker 6

    I know you're talking about it, and it's mostly about what it's like. 

    1:06:34 - Speaker 3

    First of all, i don't want to if you have never seen it. The thing that I like the most about it I will forego mentioning until you've seen it. But it's also about the Masons and kind of where there's this whole thing about on the level, on the square, that like figures into it And it's meta, like there's a character who actually is or you're Kipling in it, and it's just and it's John Huston directing it And it's big and colorful and crazy and expansive and has a lot of the themes of Huston's other films. But also Connery's performance is both of them, henry Canard, have such good chemistry. They're so clearly friends off screen, they're so good. And it's also the movie where Michael Cain met his wife, who is your. Cain is in the movie and I have never seen a more beautiful human thing, ever person. You mean Michael Cain, right? 

    1:07:26 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, him too, and Sean. 

    1:07:27 - Speaker 2


    1:07:28 - Speaker 3

    Yeah, oh, let's check that out. It's great. The other one that didn't get mentioned yet that I would absolutely I'm very close to putting in, i'm very close on three days with Connery. I really think it's like pop wearing movie Absolutely at its best, especially for that period of time. 

    But the other one that kind of doesn't get a lot of love now is the Hal Ashby film, shampoo, which is really smart and really funny And Julie Christie and Goldie Hawn and Warren Beatty and it's this comedy of manners and it's sort of like easy to dismiss, a lighter kind of more farcical thing. But it's like school for scandal. It's like a multiple guy sleeping with a lot of women kind of comedy and it gets something California culture perfect, in much the same way that the National gets Southern culture perfect. It gets SoCal perfect and it's really fun and great And kind of doesn't get talked about a lot. It's pretty close for me to being in there. It's such a good year. But you wouldn't put it on. I wouldn't put it on. The only swap I'd make is I throw Men with Men would be King in instead of Barry Lynn. 

    1:08:34 - Speaker 4

    So Men with Men would be King and the passenger The passenger, and I loved the passenger. 

    1:08:40 - Speaker 6

    I loved it. 

    1:08:42 - Speaker 5

    And the other thing is, john Huston is like an American. I can see it being like too British or English, but you know, because it's John Huston, you think they could have thrown it in there. 

    1:08:51 - Speaker 4

    Is it fair to say that if this was now, you know, the 10 nominate, i think, these movies. 

    1:08:55 - Speaker 3

    I was thinking that This is one of those years when I wish they hadn't had a 10, because it wouldn't have been hard at all. 

    1:08:59 - Speaker 2

    Yeah, yeah. 

    1:09:00 - Speaker 3

    It builds up. 

    1:09:02 - Speaker 5

    I watched all these movies together. I now have a theory that the shining was made because Kubrick lost the Oscar and sort of assembled the movie based on the elements of all these other movies, that's awesome. It's got Scamman Carothers and Jack Nicholson from the movie The One. It's got Shelly Duvall from Nashville And it's a horror movie based on a popular book like Jaws. 

    1:09:29 - Speaker 3

    Wow, mic drop, that is a good one. 

    1:09:31 - Speaker 5

    I'm going to leave this. It's been the do-over Eat it, eat it, whitey, that's spectacular. 

    1:09:40 - Speaker 4

    Well, i think we have a good idea where this is going to land. But 1975, does it need a do-over? It's a tough one to argue. Should we vote just for shits and giggins? Sure, yeah, i guess. 

    1:09:56 - Speaker 3

    All right, nobody did anyone else feel like they didn't want to come here today. It's so hard, It's so hard. 

    1:10:04 - Speaker 5

    I would. maybe, just because I love Jaws so much, i think it's such a perfect movie, i would maybe argue to have Jaws win Best Picture. but then if someone was like, oh, it's a bit of paperwork, i'd be like, okay, keep one for the Kubrick's Nest, that's fine, that's a great movie. Well, it will be a bit of paperwork. Okay then keep one for the Kubrick's Nest. 

    1:10:23 - Speaker 6

    We have two saying that we're going to have Keep it as Kubrick's Nest as well. This is one of those years when they got it right. 

    1:10:28 - Speaker 4

    All right, boom, there, it is Got it right. 

    1:10:32 - Speaker 5

    I actually anticipated that I wouldn't think that. Just from my recollections of all the movies I thought, oh, one film of the Kubrick's Nest, one of those movies is good, but I didn't think it was quite as good as maybe Jaws or like. I heard such good things about Nashville, but watching it again, it's just so good? 

    1:10:47 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, i think so too. When I read the stat after I watched the movie, i read the stat that it ran the board. Okay, i get it. There's no way we'll redo this. So there was tenetiveness at the beginning, but we'll keep it as it is. And one for the Kubrick's Nest. We'll hold to that. Thanks for coming out, guys. Thanks for having me. Yeah, thanks, cool. 

    1:11:17 - Speaker 3

    And that, as they say, is 1975. So yeah, we did indeed keep one flew over the Kukku's Nest. There was no do over. That's our second episode in a row with no do over. Boy, those 70s man, they are strong. But listen, thanks again to Ryan, to JM and to JD, my co-host, my producer, my wonderful friend Jamie Doe. We'll be back soon to talk about 1976, for your reconsideration. 

    1:12:13 - Speaker 4

    Podcasts and such. 

    Keywords: 1975 Movie Season, Best Picture Nominees, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Barry Lyndon, Dog Day Afternoon, Jaws, Nashville, Air Conditioning, Blockbusters, Academy Awards, Film Critique, Analysis, Characters, Performances, Filmmaking Techniques, Popcorn, Memory Lane, Cultural Impact, Star Wars, Alternative Ballot, Winner, Realism, Robbery, Subversive, Vietnam War, Mistrust of Authority, Box Office, Screenplays, Big Five Oscars, Deconstruction, Kirk Douglas, Emotions, Documentary, Three Days of the Condor, Man Who Would Be King, The Passenger, Back to the Future

    1h 12m | May 28, 2023
  • Episode 3 - 1975 Primer

    Chapter 1: Introduction

    Hosted by Mattie Price and Jamie Dew

    Panelists: Ryan McNeil, JM McNabb, and Matti Price

    Overview of the podcast's premise and format

    Discussion on the 48th Annual Academy Awards held in 1976

    Keywords: Podcast introduction, Hosts, Panelists, Academy Awards

    Chapter 2: Highlights of the 48th Annual Academy Awards

    ABC acquires broadcast rights for the first time

    Co-hosts: Walter Mathau, Robert Shaw, George Siegel, Goldie Hawn, and Gene Kelly

    Humorous remark on the desire for a heist movie with the star-studded cast

    Keywords: Academy Awards highlights, ABC, Co-hosts, Humor

    Chapter 3: Notable Films and Achievements

    "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" sweeps the five major categories

    Comparison with other films achieving a clean sweep

    Mention of Isabelle Adjani's record as the youngest Best Actress nominee

    George Burns becomes the oldest acting winner

    Keywords: "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest," Clean sweep, Youngest nominee, Oldest winner

    Chapter 4: Memorable Moments from the Ceremony

    "Jaws" winning multiple awards except Best Picture

    Honorary award presented to Mary Pickford

    Irving G. Thalberg Memorial Award recipient: Mervyn LeRoy

    Gene Hersholt Humanitarian Award recipient: Jules C. Stein

    Keywords: "Jaws," Mary Pickford, Irving G. Thalberg Memorial Award, Gene Hersholt Humanitarian Award

    Chapter 5: Musical Performances and Presenters

    Ray Bolger's opening number, "Hollywood Honors its Own"

    Keith Carradine's performance of "I'm Easy"

    USC Trojan's marching band's closing medley

    Notable presenters from outside the entertainment industry

    Keywords: Musical performances, Ray Bolger, Keith Carradine, USC Trojan's marching band, Presenters

    Chapter 6: Remembering the Departed

    Mention of notable individuals who passed away between ceremonies

    Frederick March, Paul Robeson, Lee Jay Cobb, Sal Minio, Michelle Simo, Pier Paolo Pasolini, Wild Bill Wellman, Busby Berkeley, Master Luo, Rod Serling, Sidney Buckman, Bernard Herman

    Keywords: In Memoriam, Departed individuals

    Chapter 7: Closing and Future Episodes

    Conclusion of the episode's content

    Invitation to join the panelists for the next episode on 1975

    Website and contact information for the podcast

    Keywords: Closing remarks, Next episode preview, Contact information


    0:00:05 - Speaker 1

    For your reconsideration, for your reconsideration is a podcast. Next week we are back with another stacked panel and another great year in movies. I'm your host, mattie Price, and I'm here with the always fabulous Jamie Dew. Together we assemble great panelists with diverse points of view to discuss a specific year in mostly American filmmaking, but through the clarifying crucible of the Oscars Best Picture. Our next episode is a good one, looking at the movies of 1975. Jd is hosting that conversation and our panelists are Podcaster and writer Ryan McNeil, writer JM McNabb and, oh and me, mattie Price. I am in the panelist chair for this one. 

    So the 48th annual Academy Awards were presented in March of 1976 at the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion. As was the style at the time, they awarded films made in 1975. Abc had the broadcast rights for the first time and the show was once again co-hosted. This again was a popular thing in the 70s to have multiple hosts on this show. This time it was stacked Walter Mathau, robert Shaw, george Segal, goldie Hahn and Gene Kelly. Here is my heist movie with this cast is my question. 

    Most folks know that for the first time since it happened, one night a single movie. Milosh Forman's One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, made a clean sweep of the five major categories Best Picture, best Actor, best Actress, best Director and Best Screenplay this time adapted. It's only happened one other time so far, and that's with the Silence of the Lambs. At 20, isabella Johnny became the youngest Best Actress nominee ever at the time. Ultimately, her record was beaten first by 13-year-old Keisha Castle Hughes in whale music, and then they both went down hard to nine-year-old Kavanjanae Wallace in Beasts of the Southern Wild. At 80, george Burns became the oldest acting winner, as well as the last person born in the 19th century to receive an acting award, george Oswand. Every award it was nominated for that year, except Best Picture. The honorary award for that year went to Mary Pickford. The Irving G Thalberg Award, which is given to producers of Note, was given to Mervin G Leroy, and then they gave out a Gene Herschold Award. That's something they don't actually do all the time. That award is given for public service and working for the public good. This time they gave it to Jules C Stein, who had founded MCA, which ultimately wound up owning Universal Studios and also helped create the Hollywood canteen during World War II, which was a place where servicemen and women could go to relax and be entertained. 

    Ray Bolger sang the opening number. It was a classy little diddy called Hollywood Honors It's Own. I cannot find any evidence of this song anywhere but presumably it existed at the time. There were other notable musical I'm going to start that paragraph again. Ray Bolger sang the opening number, a classy little diddy called Hollywood Honors It's Own, which I can't find any evidence of that song anywhere, but I guess it does exist. There were other notable musical performances. Keith Carradine sang his Nashville hit, i'm Easy, which he also wrote. Then at the end of the show, the USC Trojans marching band played a medley of America the beautiful. And that's entertainment. I'm sure there was not a dry eye in the house. 

    There were other notable presenters that year from worlds outside of entertainment Gore Vidal, poet and playwright, poet and composer Rod McEwen. Audrey Hepburn was the presenter for Best Picture. Oh, and for the second year in a row, future murderer OJ Simpson gave out an Oscar. I don't know They loved OJ Simpson, i anyway. There was no in memoriam. Those didn't start until much later. 

    But these notable folks did pass away between ceremonies Frederick March, the great actor Paul Robeson, and the activist and brilliant performer as well, actor Lee J Cobb, who had just completed the Exorcist, not a couple of years earlier. Salminio, gone way too young from well, mostly notably from Rebel Without a Cause, but many other things as well. Michel Simond, the great French actor who worked extensively with Renoir and many other great French directors. And then, for the second year in a row, one of the three Stooges died. This time they got Moe Directors Pierpaolo Pasolini, wild, bill Wellman, busby Berkeley and Master Lucchino Visconti all passed away in that year. 

    Writer Rod Serling, four-time writing nominee, sidney Buckman, who wrote, among other things, mr Smith Goes to Washington and Agatha Christie. And then composer Bernard Herman died right before his score for Taxi Driver was released posthumously. So we'll be back soon with that episode 1975. Join us and our panelists, including me, and enjoy. Go to duvercom for all the shows and more great podcasts. Can't wait to talk to you again on For Your Reconciliation, for Your Reconciliation is the production of Duver Podcasts and Such. To subscribe, share, rate and review, please visit duveracom. Duvera Ah podcasts and such. 

    6m | May 21, 2023
  • Episode 2 - 1974

    Hello & welcome to another incredible episode of “For Your Reconsideration - an Oscars podcast.”

    This week, Phil, Andrew, Jose, David & Norm join me on the show as we discuss five of the best Oscar-nominated movies in 1974. From Chinatown, The Conversation, Lenny, Towering Inferno to its best picture GodFather part II. Moreover, the panelists share movies they would add or eliminate in 1974.

    Tune in to our candid & interesting conversation on some of the best movie scenes and characters as well as our nominee movie from 1974!


    [01:23] Introducing this week’s topic, “1974.”

    [01:58] About this week’s panelists

    [04:12] Why “Chinatown” is one of the best-written films of the 70s in the detective movie genre & Jack’s outstanding character

    [17:07] Interesting scenes in “The Towering Inferno “movie & McQueen versus Newman performance

    [25:03] Was McQueen’s role supposed to be Newman’s role?

    [27:50] Dissecting outstanding characters and problems in “Lenny”

    [35:31] Lenny Bruce's exceptional performance in Lenny compared to his actual sets

    [37:58] The conspiracy paranoia and what stands out in “The Conversation Movie.”

    [52:00] Best scenes & characters in “The Godfather Part II” Movie

    [01:04:20] What would our panel take away or add to the 1974 list

    [01:13:33] Does 1974 require a do-over?

    [01:15:17] The Panel’s nominee movie from the 1974 list

    Notable Quotes

    “Chinatown is a great stepping stone movie for anyone that wants to get into the film world.” (08:35-08:40)

    “Lenny is just too off the moment and too rigidly controlled to try and stick to the story. It's almost too faithful.” (32:10-32:22)

    “In a lot of ways, Lenny Bruce was more of a performance artist than he was in stand-up. People respect Lenny Bruce's performance more than his actual sets. They appreciate the craft more than what he was actually saying.” (37:39-37:53)

    “The Godfather will always be a classic movie.” (56:20-56:22)

    Please share, subscribe & leave a review!


    0:00:01 - Speaker 1

    The nominees for the best picture of the year are Chinatown, a Robert Evans production, paramount. Robert Evans producer. The Conversation, a director's company production, paramount. Francis Ford Coppola producer. Fred Roos, co producer. The Godfather Part II, a Coppola company production, paramount. Francis Ford Coppola producer. Gray Fredrickson and Fred Roos co-producers. Lenny, a Marvin Worth production, united Artists. Marvin Worth producer. The Towering Inferno, an Irwin Allen production, 20th Century Fox, warner Brothers. Irwin Allen producer. And the winner is Godfather Part II, francis Ford Coppola, gray Fredrickson and Fred Roos. For your reconsideration. 

    0:01:20 - Speaker 2

    Hey, it's Matty Price. Myself and today's host, jamie Dew, are here for you, as we will be in every episode. Welcome to, for Your Reconsideration, an Oscars podcast. As always, we have an amazing panel of film buffs. This week, we are looking at the best picture of 1974, the Godfather, part II, as well as the other nominees Lenny, the Conversation, the Towering Inferno and Chinatown. As always, we will open it up so the panel can discuss those films, but also curate their own ballots. Remove choices they think don't work, add films that they feel like shouldn't have been overlooked. So thanks again for listening. Subscribe through the podcast client of your choice to get new episodes every week as they are available. Welcome to Season 1, and now it's time to join this episode's host, jamie. Panelist Norm Willner, David Brown, david Follows, andrew Parker and Jose Roldan. Listen. The episode was originally recorded live and in person in 2016. Remember 2016? 

    0:02:23 - Speaker 3

    Before there was a pandemic And we all Oh, never mind, anyway, let's get into it, it's 1974 is what we're doing and of course, i didn't recall that This is the year I was born, so Well of course you wouldn't recall. 

    0:02:46 - Speaker 4

    I don't remember a whole bunch. 

    0:02:52 - Speaker 3

    We will go around the table with introductions. Does everybody introduce themselves? I wasn't here when everybody else arrived, but we'll start over here on my left. 

    0:02:57 - Speaker 5

    Andrew Parker. I am the Film and Performing Arts Editor of the website Dorkshelf. You can find me on Twitter at AndrewJ Parker. 

    0:03:04 - Speaker 3

    Cool Thanks. 

    0:03:05 - Speaker 4

    Andrew, i'm Norm. 

    0:03:06 - Speaker 3

    Willner. You can find me on Twitter at Norm Willner. 

    0:03:08 - Speaker 4

    I'm the senior film writer for Now Magazine and I also do some stuff for MSN Great. 

    0:03:13 - Speaker 6

    Thanks, norm, i'm Phil Brown. You can find me on Twitter at that. Phil Brown and I rate for a bunch of. I rate for Dorkshelf and Now, like Them and I rate for Charmstar and Globe and Mound Remorgen Fingery and Bunch of Anyone will let me? basically. 

    0:03:28 - Speaker 8

    I'm Jose Roldan. You can find me on Twitter at DEC22CM and I work for one of the major studios. I'm a suit. 

    0:03:35 - Speaker 7

    I love all movies, i'm all about movies. No, he's not in a suit right now. Yeah, i'm David Follows. I am only from Drink Along with Dave and Jeremy. I play Jeremy. I'm going to steal Jeremy's joke from the last episode. We're on the Modern Superior Network and you can follow us on Twitter at Drink Along and myself. You can follow me at D Fidicus. It spells itself. 

    0:04:03 - Speaker 3

    I'm trying to spell it right now It would have to. It doesn't really spell itself. Just go to Add Drink Along, then Cool. Thanks everybody for coming out on a hazy Sunday. We are here talking 1974. What better place to start in 1974 than What do you say? we start with Chinatown. Sure, forget it, i'm going to profound. 

    0:04:29 - Speaker 6

    Essay on the evil. 

    0:04:31 - Speaker 3

    Chinatown, let's throw in Chinatown. 

    0:04:34 - Speaker 4

    Profound psychological essay on the evil that men and women do, written by Robert Towne directed by. Roman Plansky, probably one of the best movies in the 1970s. Oops, I may have given something away. 

    0:04:45 - Speaker 5

    We didn't give away the ending to Chinatown Not a monster. 

    0:04:48 - Speaker 4

    The title does that. Although you would not believe what men can do when they are pressed. No one really knows, do they Mr Giddish, isn't it Giddish He calls? 

    0:04:58 - Speaker 8

    him Mr. 

    0:04:58 - Speaker 4

    Giddish. He always gets it wrong because he doesn't care. So again, John Houston, Best Supporting Actor. That's my Sorry, we're getting ahead of ourselves. 

    0:05:08 - Speaker 6

    Yeah, no, absolutely. 

    0:05:09 - Speaker 7

    That's one of the great film performances all the time, and Jack was sleeping with his movie daughter and his real life daughter when they were making that movie. 

    0:05:18 - Speaker 6

    That explains all that aggression. 

    0:05:22 - Speaker 7

    Jack was sleeping with Houston's daughter. 

    0:05:24 - Speaker 4

    Oh, angelica, he and Angelica Houston were in that film. 

    0:05:26 - Speaker 7

    We were in that film when they were making that film. So it was when he was like are you fucking my daughter? 

    0:05:32 - Speaker 8

    It was like yes, Jack is so badass in that movie. Though That's when it's still counted After that, it's just like a version of himself In this movie. it's so awesome. 

    0:05:41 - Speaker 5

    He's awesome, but he's also kind of a wimpy badass. Every time someone confronts him, like the scene where he's confronted by Roman Polansky. He gets his nose cut. It's not really a badass thing. You kind of just fold it. You act like such a badass. But there's these two dudes, and the little shrimpy dude gets the jump on you. 

    0:05:58 - Speaker 4

    Yeah really, all you have to do is step back, yeah, and Roman Polansky cannot actually reach you. 

    0:06:02 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, you could just bob you, Even if you're being held back. you could have bobbed your head just enough for him to miss you. 

    0:06:09 - Speaker 4

    But that is what's so great about the character is that he doesn't. he's a terrible detective. 

    0:06:13 - Speaker 1

    He's an immediate detective. 

    0:06:15 - Speaker 4

    The very first scene is he's tricked by someone who isn't who. She says she is into doing something that isn't what he thinks it is. He continues to get everything wrong. It's the Harrison Ford Blade Runner performance, basically, where you just suck but people keep falling over, people keep tripping, you're there at the right moment. It's a really different version of a sleuth than we've been led to believe, although this was just a year after the long goodbye, where Aliakul played a very similar kind of detective, although with Gould you get the sense with Marlowe that he's actually paying attention Yeah, he could actually be good And faking it. And with Giddy he's overconfident. He's a dumbass. He has already gotten people killed before the movie starts or whatever happened in Chinatown. He screwed up. 

    And this is what happens when this plan like basically and this is a bit of a spoiler, i suppose conceptually, but the bad guys do win The plan that he's lured into works in the first two minutes of the film And he has played from beginning to end and watching Jack Nicholson be that guy as opposed to the character from The Last Detail or the characters he played before, who were super confident and also competent That was really something That was kind of a statement of Nicholson's at the time. 

    0:07:30 - Speaker 6

    Is he kind of opening in The Last Detail? Well, yeah, he's a lot of bluster. 

    0:07:33 - Speaker 4

    He does his job and he doesn't get anybody killed Except for the one that he was supposed to get killed, Yeah but he knows the system is wrong, so there's that He's a cog in a machine, but he cooperates and he's doing a professional In this one. He is absolutely a professional, with very nice suits and a lovely office and he's useless, Which is a very California thing. 

    0:07:57 - Speaker 5

    He looks very good, he's very flashy And he is very indicative of that period of California history where you could get by on your looks and your swagger And that's fine. The thing that's so well written about it is we just said that it's a great film about someone who's always wrong with everything. Everyone around him knows he's going to screw this up Right to the end. The punchline of the movie is you should have seen this coming, and I think that's what I love about it. 

    I think it's one of the best films of the 70s because it's probably the best written film of the 70s And in terms of how that all comes together and how it turns the detective genre on its ear, it's a great California history lesson And I think the reason that several years later because I saw it in the 80s when I was growing up for the first time, i think several years later the reason I liked something like LA Confidential is because I was like Oh, chinatown prepared me for this And I think Chinatown's a great stepping stone movie for anyone that wants to get into film noir in any way, like if you've never seen another movie like that, it's probably a good place to start because you're never going to get another movie like that again. 

    0:09:07 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, and it's sun drenched instead of noir. 

    0:09:10 - Speaker 7

    So, you fight to the subversive on every level. 

    0:09:13 - Speaker 4

    Although, of course, at the time people just thought Oh, what a lovely Robert Evans studio production. It's so polished and gorgeous And it is. It absolutely is. But it's this, you know, it's filled with snakes. It's this veneer of respectability, but much like what was happening in Roman Polanski's life at that time, it's just a rat's nest of ugly. 

    0:09:33 - Speaker 3

    It's interesting for me. I mean coming at it for the first time for this podcast. Really, yeah, yeah, absolutely. This was the film on the list that least grabbed my attention And not to say that You mean like the title Initially. 

    0:09:49 - Speaker 8

    No no no, no. 

    0:09:49 - Speaker 4

    The after-watch experience of watching it. 

    0:09:51 - Speaker 3

    Pacing was interesting. I think this is where the show, like the do-over, suffers from a context sort of thing. This was the first time I watched this movie And it was the first one I also watched for the 74 series, so you know, i had to sort of get into that different style filmmaking. 

    0:10:10 - Speaker 4

    Right, like films look different, they felt different, they were paced differently And this is a deliberate attempt to mimic an, to evoke an era that didn't exist, really Like this sort of beautiful, splendid 1920s filmmaking that wasn't there in the 1920s. That's not how they made movies. It's like the artist where it's not really about movies made in a silent era. It's about movies made around seeing the rain. It's like a romantic Romanticized. 

    0:10:30 - Speaker 7

    Yeah, which is what the-. Yeah, it's a false sense of nostalgia. 

    0:10:32 - Speaker 4

    What the film makes Yeah but this one's actively working to create that. 

    0:10:36 - Speaker 3

    So this side of the table, you guys are going to see me, but the left side of the table, big fans, huge fans. 

    0:10:41 - Speaker 5

    Oh, huge, massive fans. 

    0:10:42 - Speaker 7

    Over here on the right, dave. I've always enjoyed this movie. Every time I start to watch it and then when I get to the end, i'm always That ending always gets me every time because I always I get so drawn into the film because it's so gorgeous and it is such The pacing is just perfect. It's like it's one of the perfect films for it. It gets you from point A to point Z because it's such a weird ending. But that ending gets me every time, and every time I'm so disappointed by the film. At the end I'm like, oh crap, i hate I forget that. I always I have a mental block on that ending. But I mean, the film itself is just you can't take your eyes off of every frame. 

    0:11:22 - Speaker 6

    One of the things I love about visually is the way it's all so subtly subjective. Every shot is from Jack Nichols' perspective. You don't necessarily notice it because it's done in a way where it's not point of view necessarily. 

    He's in every scene and it's always coming from his perspective, which was a useful tool. And then one of the things I like is it's so handsome, like we were talking before, like carefully mounted, and then that ending is all handheld cameras and ragged and it's incredibly posey and sense-. It pulls you right out of any veneer of old-fashioned filmmaking that you've fallen into. 

    0:11:53 - Speaker 5

    It's kind of like switching from watching a really polished movie and then for the last 15 minutes or so you just switched over to the news. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. 

    0:12:03 - Speaker 4

    And it works like tonally. It even works beautifully, because obviously I'm assuming anybody listening to a podcast about Oscar movies from 1974 knows the story behind Chinatown, which is that it's not Town's Ending. 

    The original screenplay ended very differently and Rowan Polanski said No, this has to go bad, this has to be worse, and the ending feels like he has like Polanski, the filmmaker has dragged you by your collar into his movie, into the movie that he really wants to make, and it's nasty and it's ugly and it's bloody and it's horrible. And that leer on that one guy's face which I can conjure up in my head right now, perfectly, just, you know, this is what this movie is, this is what these events would end in. 

    0:12:42 - Speaker 6

    And there's so many helmets in the film that conform to that. Like I always, am sort of struck by Bay Dunaway's performance in the beginning. I find very mannered and awkward, but it's like deliberately so A for Omaj and B for the game that she's trying to play and by the end. 

    0:12:53 - Speaker 7

    She's entirely naturalistic in a way that she can be Oh, and Polanski is a complete knob to her own set. 

    0:12:57 - Speaker 6

    Yes, definitely. Oh, there's chapter on it. Oh yeah, there's so many stories as well the stuff that he did. Yeah, delightfully abusive, man. 

    0:13:04 - Speaker 7

    Yes, yes. 

    0:13:07 - Speaker 4

    Does have two of the best get out of jail free cards at that point, but still Yeah, as it were. Where are you on the Swarovski. 

    0:13:14 - Speaker 8

    I don't like Roman Polanski, so it's my only Roman Polanski movie that I like period. I hate that he's in it That kind of part of me. 

    0:13:21 - Speaker 7

    Yeah, That's like the one thing it's like, it's like I'm incredibly awkward. 

    0:13:24 - Speaker 8

    It's like Eli Roth and Glorious Bastards, and I don't like you in this movie everybody else in this movie but you. But it's funny that you said that you know how the ending is changing everything, because it's the standard script that they teach you in film school, right? 

    0:13:36 - Speaker 5

    Oh, this is the perfect one Written by the guy who wrote books on creating the standard script. 

    0:13:41 - Speaker 8

    Yeah, like literally. This is the canon. 

    0:13:42 - Speaker 5

    You know like, this is it. Don't look at any other screenplay. 

    0:13:44 - Speaker 8

    You'll be fine with Chinatown and it's good and it totally works, except Tremors. Yeah, tremors. Well, tremors is a great script. It is technically one of the better scripts, and sorry. 

    0:13:54 - Speaker 5

    I haven't seen. 

    0:13:55 - Speaker 8

    Tremors. Maybe during the do-over you should watch whatever year. Yeah, who hears that 90? Yeah, yeah. 

    0:14:03 - Speaker 5

    That's a bit of a non-conjuring, but don't look at me. I just watched Chinatown today. 

    0:14:08 - Speaker 8

    What I love about the podcast is that people there are people who don't watch movies like before a certain year and still participate in these, and they're forced to watch these movies, kind of like yourself, jamie. So That's what. I'm doing this show, but I think it's so awesome because it's like Chinatown would be the one old movie that I would show somebody to get into older movies. 

    Yeah, it's kind of like the marijuana of old movies. You know It's old enough that it's count as old, but it's still not alien. You know the way that some silent movies just you couldn't watch now without preparing yourself for it. I love Chinatown and Giddies or Gids or whatever is a Giddies. Yeah, giddies is probably. I know, i know, but I'm Giddies. Giddies, i think so bad. And what I meant by him being badass is that that's Jack Nicholson actually acting, you know, at his best, i think. You know, whereas almost every movie after well, not almost every, because there's a few others like Cuckoo's Nest and stuff that he stopped caring, you know, and he's good, he's so good at this. 

    0:15:03 - Speaker 3

    His performance is, like, really, really good, even something simple, like him wearing that bandage on his nose for the entirety of the movie. 

    0:15:11 - Speaker 4

    Yeah much yeah. 

    0:15:13 - Speaker 3

    I was trying to think of another actor that would do that. You see all these superhero movies now where they make the superheroes take off their mask so that the actor can get screen time in here. Jack was, you know, wearing this thing that you know tore to his face and then performing the shit out of the role. Really. And some of it should come across as comedic. 

    0:15:31 - Speaker 7

    Yeah, and it wasn't. 

    0:15:32 - Speaker 3

    And I feel like if somebody was directing him now it would be absolutely comedic, But it's part of. 

    0:15:36 - Speaker 4

    I mean it's on another level. It's part of Giddies' humiliation which we get before he does. And I'm sort of keen into this that, like you, are not coming out of this clean. That's just. you've already been mutilated And we still have an hour and ten minutes, so let's see where else. 

    0:15:51 - Speaker 7

    But, it's not what. 

    0:15:52 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, you're right, it's not one of those heroic things, where you know like there's a perfect asymmetrical bruise on his face and he can then fight through it. 

    0:15:57 - Speaker 5

    Right, exactly. If you can't even follow up a simple lead at a reservoir where no one should be there, you are a shitty detective and you need to quit your job, which is even worse, and this is why a sequel to Chinatown, the Two Jakes is such a terrible movie, because you wonder how the hell he survived this long. 

    0:16:18 - Speaker 7

    He was planning to be a trilogy originally too. 

    0:16:20 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, I would have liked to see where that went, because you know, like, maybe he's the first plastic surgeon in the 50s And he's terrible at it, but at least it's an innovation. 

    0:16:30 - Speaker 7

    Well, he must have been good at what he was doing, which was catching guys cheating on their lives. 

    0:16:35 - Speaker 4

    Yeah right, So he's like a backup. He found his niche and he was in his comfort zone and this rocked him right out of it. 

    0:16:41 - Speaker 8

    I love those TMC, so he was good at it. He was the watch on the W. You know what he puts? the watch on the W Yeah, i love that. I don't know. 

    0:16:47 - Speaker 1

    It's been stolen so many times. I know, I know. 

    0:16:50 - Speaker 8

    Can't do it anymore really. but No digital watches wouldn't do it. 

    0:16:52 - Speaker 3

    Well, feel pretty good about this film. 

    0:16:54 - Speaker 4

    Oh yeah, it's great, i don't get tired of it. I mean, this is a fantastic year. 

    0:16:59 - Speaker 6


    0:17:00 - Speaker 4

    We really need to say that there's like we could go half an hour on each film. 

    0:17:04 - Speaker 5

    And I even made a list of like 15 films that could have been nominated for this year. 

    0:17:09 - Speaker 3

    Let's switch gears. Really briefly, sorry, phil, we'll come back to your point, but I'll listen to your point. I want to jump into Towering Inferno. 

    0:17:17 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, just jump right into Inferno, Yeah get in there, man. 

    0:17:20 - Speaker 4

    That's good, you can fall right through and then we're done. 

    0:17:22 - Speaker 5

    I have the funniest Towering Inferno story Growing up I was. it was on AMC and I was home on a weekend night and my dad just kind of saw that was on. He got really excited. I was like why are you so excited to watch Towering Inferno? He's like son, you're going to watch this movie with me. You're going to see one of the stupidest films you've ever seen. 

    And I was like dad, why would you want to do it? He's like trust me, this is a good kind of stupid. And man, that movie did not let me down in the good kind of stupid department, do I think it should have been nominated for Best Picture? Hell, no, never, never in a trillion years. But I can see the appeal of it. 

    0:18:03 - Speaker 6

    Well, it's kind of an embarrassing like last grasp of the old studio system. is everyone who's voting for it clearly voting? Well they took two studios to mash it together For sure, yeah, they're like, this is what we can do More stars in the sky. 

    0:18:15 - Speaker 3

    Deeper love than you ever felt. 

    0:18:17 - Speaker 6

    Bigger thrills than a lifetime. Introduce them and then kill them. Exactly, yeah, and it's sort of interesting the way it pairs up everything else which feels like, even now so contemporary and interesting and challenging that this is just like so. 

    0:18:29 - Speaker 3


    0:18:30 - Speaker 5

    How many Doors I've seen it a few times. 

    0:18:40 - Speaker 7

    Yeah, my little disaster phone collection. 

    0:18:43 - Speaker 5

    There were a few that year Every month for the final three months of the year was earthquake airport 1975, and then this yeah, this was the big holiday. 

    0:18:58 - Speaker 7

    Or something like that Hijacking of a boat or something. 

    0:19:01 - Speaker 4

    Oh juggernauts, oh juggernauts. 

    0:19:02 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, that one's actually good Juggernauts, a good movie. Yeah, Anthony Hopkins action role Yeah, and I guess if you want to include the taking of Pellan 1, 2, 3, you could you could also throw that in, because they're all kind of like. Pellan 1, 2, 3 is the good disaster film. 

    0:19:17 - Speaker 6

    That's what you're going by. That Sure. Any movie that puts Walter Mather and Jerry Stiller and a buddy team Is right on my side and like juggernaut isn't a disaster movie per se. 

    0:19:26 - Speaker 5

    It's more of a heist movie. pictures, yeah, but uh, it's, it's really good. 

    0:19:30 - Speaker 7

    Like I would. 

    0:19:31 - Speaker 5

    I would put that up there, if we were, if we were counting that, but I mean it's one of those towering inferno. Is it best like the fourth or fifth best disaster film? Yeah, but it was the biggest. It was the biggest one. It's the one that got Paul Paul Luminosity McQueen, and so it and only one of them is any good And it had to be taken seriously as a result, which is this really fascinating anomaly? 

    0:19:51 - Speaker 4

    It's like you know what if you made I'm trying to think of a terrible like a Relevant example, like a Roland Emmerich movie that got Bogart. At that point in his career like something that bad with someone that respected. 

    0:20:03 - Speaker 6

    Yeah, like if Daniel Day Lewis was in the day after tomorrow. Yes, yes, which I would be there in a second, there in a second. 

    0:20:10 - Speaker 4

    These people are running from frost. They're running from frost. That's more Liam Neeson I have a child. 

    0:20:18 - Speaker 3

    I abandoned my boy in the new york public library of their walls. 

    0:20:23 - Speaker 4

    I would watch that and we also there we go, we get the connection to john houston in chinatown. 

    0:20:26 - Speaker 5


    0:20:28 - Speaker 4

    Because that character Yeah it was an impression. Daniel Plain is the bastard love child of mr Burns from the simpsons And john used to be a chanel. 

    0:20:38 - Speaker 3

    So the bad guy in this movie is Boyle. 

    0:20:40 - Speaker 4

    Riggs. And the bastards that would darebell the skyscraper and the adulterers who were then immediately punished, and the spring System that was not working on the 81st floor and that's the event that was blocking the. 

    0:20:53 - Speaker 5

    You know, there's so many villains well and oj simpsons. 

    0:20:56 - Speaker 4

    It's a long movie. 

    0:20:57 - Speaker 3

    This is a long movie. 

    0:20:59 - Speaker 4

    Yeah but eventually that's all. 

    0:21:04 - Speaker 6

    He set the fire to make himself look like a hero. He saved the cat. No one will suspect me now. 

    0:21:08 - Speaker 5

    Richard Chamberlain with the Billy zane Oh, richard Chamberlain was phenomenal. 

    0:21:14 - Speaker 3

    When he, when he pulls everyone off, that that really feeble looking attempt at, uh, an escape. 

    0:21:19 - Speaker 6

    Yeah, there's some like amazing practical effects for people are actually on fire. I'm just doing the reason to do the movie and some of the worst effects I've ever seen at my age is super bad. 

    0:21:27 - Speaker 7

    There was one bit. 

    0:21:28 - Speaker 6

    I had to play a couple times where it was like a model of the building and someone jumped off And it was clearly like maybe a two inch paper. 

    0:21:37 - Speaker 7

    Oh man so pathetic. 

    0:21:40 - Speaker 6

    That's the money. We need, that one. 

    0:21:42 - Speaker 4

    Which is the one scene where, oh, it's gonna be okay. No, it's one of those things 60 yard dash or whatever 

    0:21:51 - Speaker 3

    he says But he's not even close he hit a table and caught on fire immediately. 

    0:22:01 - Speaker 4

    That was, uh, sterling sylphan script, right. So that's that's, and I mean, that scene is almost a lot. 

    0:22:06 - Speaker 5

    That scene's almost a direct call back to trying to be the Poseidon adventure, which was you know another big. Big disaster movie at the time this was made, that was the fourth highest grossing film of all time. 

    0:22:17 - Speaker 6

    And Terry was the second highest of that year. Yeah, yeah, the second highest but. I love what beat it. I know I had no idea it was blazing saddles. 

    0:22:24 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, blazing saddles and and the thing that I think is kind of funny is if you watch any old epk stuff from uh, from towering inferno, they're all making it with the, they're very upfront, but they want to make the highest grossing picture of the year and they they came out in December with a lot of fanfare. They were beaten by a movie that came out in february. That was a comedy, a mill Brooksville, which I find uh, i guess you could say in that case towering inferno was a bit of a disappointment. 

    But, it's sort of great They're in a number of ways. 

    0:22:55 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, we've made this movie. It's gonna make all the money in the world. It's three hours long. 

    0:23:00 - Speaker 7

    It can't do more than three shows a day. 

    0:23:02 - Speaker 4

    We can't make that much money. Blazing saddles is what? 92. 

    0:23:05 - Speaker 7

    It looks like a. 

    0:23:06 - Speaker 4

    It just shoots right past you. You can get five shows in there, and this was at a time when theater space was literally like legitimately limited. Yeah, so All of it, like every element of this film, is just hubris, yeah, just it piles upon itself. 

    0:23:19 - Speaker 6

    Well, it was the end of something that's trying to recreate A film like what's already dead, because I mean, you know, there were the rojo movies where length was like part of the style. People, it would be an after. That's where you'd go. 

    0:23:28 - Speaker 3

    What about the new man's? the new man and mcqueen big rivalry there newman. 

    0:23:35 - Speaker 5

    Getting extra scenes written Queen demanded that he have the same number of lines as paul newman, and the screenwriter got called in on his vacation To write precisely 22 new sentences. So they could have the same number of lines And when I heard that, i was like you should have cut 22 sentences From mcqueen's performance, because the thing about mcqueen is mcqueen doesn't care, mcqueen really does not care. But the thing about newman is man, does he care? 

    Yeah but I mean he cares in so much as he wants to. I think he really wants to look like the best thing in a bad Movie. Yeah, that is what his performance really smacks of. It's like man. This movie's gonna suck. I'm gonna act the hell out of this and no one is gonna blame me. 

    Yeah, no one can blame me for anything this movie does wrong. Yeah, mcqueen did this. That's the kind of performance that keeps coming back in movies like this, like like kurt russell and posseiden, like in the remake of it, or or like Playing. 

    0:24:32 - Speaker 4

    Rudy Giuliani, which is a terribly written role. 

    0:24:34 - Speaker 2

    Yeah, he sells it because it doesn't care. 

    0:24:36 - Speaker 8

    It's those those kind of roles where it's just like. 

    0:24:39 - Speaker 5

    i'm just gonna do my best to act through this And no one will ever blame me for this sucking Yeah we're in a sport in everything, yes, show up, do the job. 

    0:24:48 - Speaker 4

    And and mcqueen, like you could just tell Well, somebody made him do it, it was his agent, it was a divorce, like something Was pushing him to make this kind of money for this kind of role. And he doesn't, like he checked out. I think the script thing is like trying to get more lines or it's just like okay, fuck, you go, go do something else, make another racing movie and we'll get, i don't know. 

    0:25:07 - Speaker 5

    James garnt like some yeah, like who could also have handled that you could have bumped up anyone from the supporting Yeah or tonight. 

    0:25:12 - Speaker 4

    Why not? 

    0:25:13 - Speaker 8

    He was lagging right wasn't mcqueen supposed to be the neumann role, so I don't know if that's actually true. 

    0:25:19 - Speaker 5

    Like He's like. 

    0:25:21 - Speaker 8

    I'll take the fireman role But I love I. There's a soft spot for me having like the all star cast of like everybody that just Famed this person, but I hate it and I love astair, like for astair in life But I hated the way they treated him like. every time he'd look in the mirror It's like parking back to like role. 

    0:25:39 - Speaker 6

    It's so bad. It's so bad so awkwardly dancing. It's so many of any little things or you could show Yeah, the best dancer of like all time is dancing awful. 

    0:25:47 - Speaker 5

    It's hard to tell who gets the short end of the stick in that movie, whether it's a stare Yeah, it's a stares to pay. 

    0:25:57 - Speaker 2

    That's just for the throw water out of the water to kind of to pay, yeah, especially for a stare. 

    0:26:04 - Speaker 3

    Yeah, have some dink with the psa at the end. It almost felt like a psa at the end is as mcqueen, you know, tells all right, only 200 people lost their lives. 

    0:26:13 - Speaker 5

    I bet you those, the 22 senses that we're at. It's like you want me to pee, fuck your role. You're gonna say the dumbest thing in the movie. 

    0:26:26 - Speaker 3

    A movie could have been shown at the beginning of any dedication to a tall building after that. 

    0:26:31 - Speaker 8

    What was going? 

    0:26:32 - Speaker 3

    on where they built? is that when they were starting to really build. 

    0:26:34 - Speaker 8

    Oh, the world had just been built, okay. And so it was originally set there, or one of the books that set the tower. 

    0:26:41 - Speaker 7

    It's based on two books. Yeah, there's the tower and the glass inferno. 

    0:26:46 - Speaker 5

    Two studios were involved in this. 

    0:26:49 - Speaker 3

    And there was a director specifically for all the action stuff as well as erwin allan. 

    0:26:52 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, erwin allan specifically did all the uh action directing. 

    0:26:57 - Speaker 4

    The other director got the worst job. 

    0:27:01 - Speaker 3

    The best was watching all the hodya scenes stuff for this. 

    0:27:04 - Speaker 5

    And the guy who directs the uh, the dramatic scenes can't even really say anything. He's just there with a pipe, like let's do it again. That's all he ever does. He never even comments on his work. He's like, hmm, that was good. 

    0:27:16 - Speaker 8

    He done away. Look, dausman, this She did. I hate the way she looks in chanatown with the fuzz olden eyebrows? She's not like sexy to me. 

    0:27:23 - Speaker 5

    But in this one she does nothing. Her dress gives the best performance, Yeah. 

    0:27:27 - Speaker 8

    I like her entrance too, like she's sitting in the chair. Yeah, that's a really good entrance, but yeah, i watched them in that order. 

    0:27:34 - Speaker 3

    I watched chanatown, then I watched this one And it was like fate done away, some both, but like really she's it could be the year of the bodies, because no brooks had two movies. 

    0:27:43 - Speaker 5

    Three of the best picture nominees were from paramount. 

    0:27:47 - Speaker 3

    Let's move to. Let's move to another nominee, then let's go to Lenny. What do you guys think? I like it a lot. 

    0:27:52 - Speaker 5

    I love Lenny. It's for him, never seen him before and boy, i think it's okay Love it, it's good. 

    0:27:58 - Speaker 8

    It's a bad year, though. 74 like my heart is already in another movie like so I can't even look at any nominees right now, but Lenny Right, all right right. 

    0:28:07 - Speaker 7

    Here's what I'll say about Lenny. 

    0:28:09 - Speaker 8

    I love Hoffman. Hoffman's awesome And I like until this movie I hadn't seen his range really. I mean, i seen straight time, which is kind of like a badass Dustin Hoffman but the uh, but I don't know. I never thought him to be this sort of edgy. Edgy's not a word that comes to me when I think of Dustin Hoffman. But I've worked. You know, i liked it. I like the girl. I don't know who the girl was. 

    Yeah, honey, yeah, but I love Bob Fosse movies, like all that jazz and just feel like the same. 

    0:28:40 - Speaker 3

    Bob Fosse loved to photograph. Honey. It felt oh yeah, every shot. Oh, she looked amazing in that, yeah, but it He just really was doing her a lot of favors and she did great too. There's the scene where she's being interviewed, you know in the inside, and then at the end of it I forget what she says, but she bites the chip, oh yeah. She's talking about something really serious and then just bites this chip and it's, it just pulls you. 

    0:29:03 - Speaker 8

    I thought that was great, actually, yeah. 

    0:29:06 - Speaker 6

    It's kind of weird parallel to cabaret as well, where it's sort of like Are parallel to life and using it, using it as a form of escape and and sort of issue shoots a lot of the stand-up, almost like musical sequences in a really interesting way. I like it as well too, just because Lenny Bruce is obviously an incredibly interesting figure in the history of San Antonio County, but he's not hugely funny anymore. This stuff is very dated, so the way that it Contrasts his material with his life and with the times kind of puts it in enough context So you can at least appreciate what's going on, even if you're not necessarily gonna be laughing hysterically. 

    0:29:38 - Speaker 7

    Yeah, because I mean he was basically killed by the system. Yeah, totally He was you know doing stuff that we take completely for granted. Yeah, and he was, like you know, being treated like You know Martin Luther King or something. 

    0:29:49 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, i forget who said it, but someone had a really good quote. I think it was like Time magazine. They said that his cause of death was too many cops. Yeah, Yeah, that's a pretty Pretty appropriate description of how he, how he lived and died. 

    0:30:03 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, but it's also the thing that I really like about the way Fosse goes into it and he does it with capere too Is he does. Let you see that this is not. He might be a martyr, but he kind of does it to himself His own, like the way the act just turns into him reading his core transcripts, which is actually what happened? 

    Yeah, You know some movies would now, especially where you have this vogue of capturing 10 years in a subject's life so you can go out on high. We just go right down there with him And we watch the drug abuse get worse, we watch the persecution get worse, we watch the paranoia get worse And the sense that on some level, through Hoppins' performance, he's getting off on it Like this is he knows he's going to be a martyr, although again it's like you know, there are other ways to leave your mark. You don't have to die, but that's his trajectory And he embraces it. And the movie lets us see that that's not necessarily the best thing to do. So it doesn't linize him, it doesn't think, oh, look at this incredible man who died for nothing or something. Or you get to decide, no, he's wasting his life. We get to see that He's doing valid work, but the cost is preposterous. 

    0:31:02 - Speaker 6

    Yeah, It's yeah, the complete opposite of what we think of as a biopic being and what you'd want it to be ideally, but it's so rarely, is Yeah? And I. 

    0:31:10 - Speaker 5

    That's kind of leads into why I think the movie's just okay What you got. 

    I think it is kind of the standard biopic in a lot of ways, and the reason is not so much like the content of the movie or how it's being made or nothing against Hoffman or even Fosse, who I think is doing an interesting change of pace here that I think shows him outside of his comfort zone and kind of shows why he's such a great director. 

    I think the problem with Lenny is just timing. I think this is a film that if I had seen it then Lenny Bruce would be so fresh in my mind from before that that I would look at this and be like I'm definitely afraid this movie is not telling me anything I don't already know. We talk about how it just it does a good job of recreating the act and it shows it that cuts in with his personal life, but I never really get a sense that I'm not getting anything that I couldn't have looked up in an encyclopedia or a news article or anything like that, and I think, oddly enough, it's a movie that's almost too timely in comparison to the rest of them. I'm not saying it's the worst of these picks, yeah, and I think there were much better movies that year that could have taken this lot, but it's just too of the moment, i think, and too rigidly controlled to try to stick to the story. It's almost too faithful. 

    0:32:33 - Speaker 6

    I don't know, I find it such a cynical portrayal of him Because I think at that point he was kind of lionized and the movie kind of put it in perspective in a way that as. Norma's saying I think is appropriate sort of saying yeah, he did all this, but at what cost? And who is this guy? Kind of a shithead, as far as I can tell. 

    0:32:49 - Speaker 4

    I mean biopics at the time were stuff like Funny Girl. 

    0:32:51 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, no, that's true. 

    0:32:52 - Speaker 4

    That is true. You were hostrously sanitizing and glorifying and glamorizing everything I think for 1974, as a biopic goes. what Fosse does within the strictures of what biopics were, i think is really interesting. 

    0:33:05 - Speaker 1

    I mean, yes, it isn't anything more than it doesn't break the genre of it. 

    0:33:09 - Speaker 4

    But it works for what it is Right, And I mean that's really just me putting it in comparison to everything else. 

    0:33:15 - Speaker 8

    Right Yeah. 

    0:33:16 - Speaker 7

    Like I mean it's a good movie in a good year. 

    0:33:19 - Speaker 5

    I'd seen it twice. I watched it again for this, but I saw it originally maybe about five or six years ago for the first time And even then I was just kind of like, yeah, that's OK, that's another biopic, it's very well done. I can't really take anything away from it. I just didn't really. I don't really feel like it went the extra mile. 

    0:33:36 - Speaker 3

    I'm always curious about the latency effect, right, like what people bring when they watch it fresh versus what they're bringing when they've watched it 20 years ago or 10 years ago or they're rewatching it or whatever. I think that stuff is really interesting. And if you think about Lenny Bruce, that's where I'll agree with you. I think we knew most of what was in it. I did think he was presented as a horrible person, specifically that scene where he's just berating, where he's berating Honey after the threesome, oh yeah. 

    But in a way I think That's such a terrifying scene And coming right after the threesome scene where when Fosse's shooting it there's no sound how disturbing that scene was And just him staring. 

    0:34:23 - Speaker 6

    Yeah, there's a lot of staring. 

    0:34:24 - Speaker 3

    I thought there was something wrong with my sound on my TV. I actually got up and I, you know, lost with it for a moment and then realized like whoa, wait a minute, this is supposed to be having this profound effect on me, and it really did. It was just all you could do was stare at these images that were, you know, erotic and awesome. And deeply wrong. 

    0:34:43 - Speaker 4

    Yes, exactly, and Bob. 

    0:34:45 - Speaker 5

    Fosse's the master of that. 

    0:34:47 - Speaker 8

    Yeah yeah, I'm deeply wrong. 

    0:34:48 - Speaker 5

    I'm creepy, deeply wrong, creepy erotica I am enjoying this for the road, dear God and the person I'm up 

    0:34:55 - Speaker 7


    0:34:55 - Speaker 4

    But yeah, like you have to, you're like he makes oh man, the idea of like 500 people in a room suddenly questioning themselves watching that movie just kind of starting to shift Because I've seen all that jazz in a theater and the erotica sequence freaks people out. 

    And it's because on some level, it's incredibly dated and cheesy, and it really is, and it's a really clumsy way of a filmmaker trying to show you how cutting edgey is He. Just, he like had culture progressed along that line, he would have looked like a visionary, but instead it's like oh yeah, that's cats in five years. 

    0:35:26 - Speaker 6

    That's what that is That's that thing. 

    0:35:29 - Speaker 4

    But watching it with an audience now it's just like you can feel people kind of try to lean into it, either for the sexy part or for the cultural relevance part, And it's like figure out where this is going. And when it happens in Lenny it's like being throttled. That's how I feel, Like just doing crap. 

    0:35:44 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, There's one thing about Lenny that I want I have to give it credit for, and I think is the biggest compliment that I could pay towards it. I think this is how Lenny Bruce would have wanted his life to have shown up on films. 

    I mean honestly, even though he looks like a complete shit, we've proven throughout his career that he's not afraid of looking like a shit on stage or exactly like he wanted to become a martyr, and this is the kind of film that'd be like yep, this is you. And I think of Lenny Bruce. it seemed to be like yep, that's me. I think he would have wanted the film to be called cock sucker, though Yeah, the poster is his finger sticking out of his zipper, which is a love in his mom's. 

    0:36:21 - Speaker 6

    Yeah, yeah. Well, and Fosse and him were friends And I think that was deliberately. What he was trying to make was sort of this is sort of, and I think in a weird way it's probably more fondly remembered than Lenny Bruce's material. 

    0:36:33 - Speaker 4


    0:36:33 - Speaker 1

    I think you told him right. 

    0:36:34 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, yeah, because it doesn't give you all the material that didn't last Even in 74, some of his stuff was dating And Fosse left out the stuff that was most you know clunky. 

    0:36:46 - Speaker 5

    Fosse was more memorable Lenny Bruce than Lenny Bruce. 

    0:36:50 - Speaker 3

    Yeah, it's an interesting image. Well, it's funny. I went to performance school, i went to the Humber School of Comedy and you know, you go through a period where everybody is talking about their favorite comedians, and comedians that matter, and people would throw his name out in a conversation just to throw his name out, but nobody had ever listened to a record. And if they had listened to a record and you could get them one-on-one over drinks, they would say yeah, yeah, yeah, but the movie was great. 

    0:37:18 - Speaker 4

    That's the problem, yeah. 

    0:37:19 - Speaker 6

    It's Carlin and Pryor together. 

    0:37:20 - Speaker 4

    Pryor They come out to meet. 

    0:37:21 - Speaker 6

    they're inspired by him, They come out immediately after and they bring a different scope to everything he did. 

    0:37:26 - Speaker 3

    And they were just starting to really In 74. 

    0:37:29 - Speaker 6

    For sure, Yeah absolutely, Yeah, yeah, yeah. In fact I don't know, I've never read anything, but I wouldn't be surprised if maybe this movie helped in some way, Sort of probably got a way into the like the Bruce legacy, but they were already fairly big. 

    0:37:40 - Speaker 4

    They know about albums going to them, that's true. 

    0:37:43 - Speaker 5

    They existed without Lenny Bruce, absolutely No, no, no, lenny Bruce sort of kicked the door open. 

    0:37:47 - Speaker 6

    Because you can see their work before him. 

    0:37:49 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, and it's embarrassing Yeah. And a lot of ways, lenny Bruce was more performance art than he was stand-up. For sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. 

    0:37:56 - Speaker 3

    Reading all the transcripts Not many people bought a Velvete underground record, but everybody who did started it. Yeah Yeah, it's almost like Lenny Bruce would call it. 

    0:38:03 - Speaker 1

    People respect the performance of Lenny Bruce more than they do his actual sets. Yeah, yeah. 

    0:38:08 - Speaker 6

    They appreciate the craft more than they appreciate what he was actually saying And he represents something that he always will And that sort of more his legacy than anything else, i want to jump off of craft, and the next two films that we have to talk about are both Francis Ford couple films. 

    0:38:21 - Speaker 3

    Yeah, so talking about craft, we'll start with the conversation Again. Never saw it prior to this. 

    0:38:29 - Speaker 8

    Wow, that's so serious. 

    0:38:31 - Speaker 7

    I want to provide context here. No, no. 

    0:38:33 - Speaker 3

    The main reason I'm doing this show is I do a lot of training And when we do training we always throw it a random fact, and one of the things that somebody brought up at a training that I was doing was they had seen every movie that had ever been nominated for Best Picture And I was like, holy shit, i have so not seen it. It's been nominated for Best Picture And I wanted to get in on that And I thought what better way to do that than invite people over with microphones and talk about them So I can get the context? So, rather than reading a textbook, i get to listen to people talk about these great films. This was a great film, yeah, holy shit. 

    0:39:12 - Speaker 7

    I don't know if you've been meaning to watch, but this has been on my list for ages, and thanks for doing the show because it pushed me to finally watch it. Same with Lenny, it had been on my list for ages and I'd never seen it, and so those are the only two films I hadn't seen. The other ones I'd seen many, many times. 

    0:39:26 - Speaker 2

    So what did? 

    0:39:26 - Speaker 7

    you think I really enjoyed it. It's a little coppola-esque because I find him a little bit clumsy with his filmmaking sometimes, But I thoroughly enjoyed it And it is a product of its time but it is still timely at the same time. But I think I also enjoyed the technology shots that are supposed to be like oh, look at this piece of machinery. It's like 40 years old and it's like you know it's amazing. I thoroughly enjoyed it because I love conspiracy, paranoia, thriller type things. So Hackman is, and he's great, he's amazing He's spectacular And his character is very interesting. 

    0:40:03 - Speaker 6

    Aside from Tarrar I'm faring out all the movies kind of. His characters are emblematic of that kind of 70s hero who's not hero in A-Straight. 

    0:40:10 - Speaker 7


    0:40:11 - Speaker 6

    I could. All four of these movies are about very unheroic kind of terrible people. Yeah. 

    0:40:17 - Speaker 7

    Who's fucked up in the past? 

    0:40:18 - Speaker 6

    Yeah, Yeah, he's screwed up and we're just going to watch him screw up again, bigger than it, better than ever before, and there's something, yeah, kind of fascinating about that, in a way that not only could that come out, then they could be successful and they could be up in this situation, it's a situation for Oscars. I mean, what to say? And yeah, and I think Gene Hackman's character in the conversation is one of the more fascinating examples of that, because he's just such a closed book. Like in a movie, your protagonist should be someone you're connecting to and wanting to follow And at every stage of the game. 

    It's like going out of its way to make you never quite understand who this guy is, to doubt him, not like him. I find it incredibly fascinating. 

    0:40:55 - Speaker 5

    It works really well. Yeah, that's why I love the film so much And I think it's probably. I never really gave much thought into how it fits into the conspiracy thriller, surveillance thriller, canon, but it's definitely near the top. 

    0:41:09 - Speaker 3


    0:41:10 - Speaker 5

    Without question, and I think a lot of that is credit to how Coppola and Hackman are working together in tandem. One of the things I love about this movie is that it is a thriller, but it's also very heartbreaking to watch because Hackman's character is someone that has spent his entire life being really cold, really distant, has to stay on the outside of everything, not getting involved, not caring, and this is about the movie. It's a pretty classical story about the guy who does that but eventually has to learn to grow a conscience, and I find this to be one of the more fascinating examples of one of those films where a shithead eventually starts to have to learn how to give a shit, and I think a lot of that is credit to Hackman. I'm not taking anything away from the story or from Coppola. I mean I guess you could say it's a B-grade Coppola film in a lot of ways, but I mean Well, i mean in the 70s. 

    0:42:06 - Speaker 6

    Yeah, exactly, i mean, it's sort of like the anomaly of his filmmaking career Of the four masterpieces. 

    0:42:14 - Speaker 4

    This is the least masterpiece, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, still a masterpiece, Exactly. 

    0:42:18 - Speaker 5

    But I mean, it's a masterpiece of a genre film which I find to be fascinating And I love that it's here. I think it won the poem that year. 

    0:42:28 - Speaker 8

    I'm glad it exists. 

    0:42:29 - Speaker 5


    0:42:30 - Speaker 7

    Did the screenplay win too? 

    0:42:32 - Speaker 3

    It was just on the wall Editing, not an Oscar. 

    0:42:33 - Speaker 5

    Editing It's a merchandise house, yeah. 

    0:42:35 - Speaker 4

    It deserved me. 

    0:42:36 - Speaker 8

    You know, I love that this movie exists because it's the same year as this mega blockbuster. right after another mega blockbuster, He's like I'll do this other movie for you, if I can do what I want, which is like the dream right. 

    And it's like his traffic to the air in Brockovich And I can't distinguish it from the filmmaking right. So, like when we talk about the story and that's what I first saw, the reason I go back is the fact that it exists. They ran out of money, They changed the ending and the editing That the technology is such a prominent character in the movie. But also the zoom lens wasn't used that way originally until in the 70s, You know, like the beginning, where it sort of zooms in on the first time. 

    0:43:15 - Speaker 7

    Oh, those are such on The Indian Square. 

    0:43:17 - Speaker 8

    Yeah, and his raincoat. 

    0:43:19 - Speaker 7

    that's like this whole thing about like you can see, it's one of those ones that you carry little plastic bags like the world's cheapest raincoat. 

    0:43:24 - Speaker 8

    Everything about this movie is so fetishistic about this movie, but the fact that it exists is really the reason that I dig it, man. Oh, I love it. 

    0:43:31 - Speaker 4

    It's just such a beautiful, methodical, careful film about making mistakes About missing the obvious thing And just the idea that you would make a movie where the entire film is predicated. spoiler alert, i suppose, on someone not quite listening right. 

    0:43:48 - Speaker 1

    Like he hears it, He doesn't get it. 

    0:43:50 - Speaker 4

    And that's just the idea that, of course, this is why he had to make Godfather 2. Paramount was like no you want money for the movie? 

    0:43:57 - Speaker 6

    No, how do? 

    0:43:58 - Speaker 4

    you pitch it, You have to see it. You have to make that movie to get people to understand what you're trying to say And then what the larger statement is about. And also this is, of course, the heart of Watergate is happening all around them, Like the other big conspiracy movie that year was The Parallax View. So you've got that, this Chinatown. All films about noblish investigators just completely getting something wrong or being misled by powerful interests I mean, that's America at that moment And to see a film that isn't about any of that and is all about that at the same time. 

    So 40 years later, it still holds up as a completely character-driven piece of movie making rather than self-reflexive political commentary. And the scene's in, I think about something like Good Night and Good Luck, where you can watch it and think, oh, that's cloney responding to the Iraq war and the way the Bush administration pressured journalists, or it's a biopic about Edward R Murrow making a really brave stand. They work either way And you could watch one without the knowledge of the other, Although if you watch it without knowledge of Murrow, you'll just see a new story. For me, The conversation is really not about Watergate in as much as anything. It's about anxiety about surveillance. And that's utterly relevant to the point where Gene Hackman turns up an enemy of the state and they use his ID photo from the conversation, And they're just like ah, Harry's still out there, Of course he is. 

    And you know like, come on, Tony Scott, make your own character. 

    0:45:20 - Speaker 1

    Make your own movie. 

    0:45:22 - Speaker 4

    But there's this moment of like oh, that's adorable. And then you realize it makes absolutely no sense within the movie And it's just a stupid concept. But how dare you? 

    0:45:29 - Speaker 7

    Well, the fact that I have that love for the conversation right. 

    0:45:32 - Speaker 4

    You want it to work. 

    0:45:34 - Speaker 3

    I don't even know why I love it, but this is my favorite of the five films that I watched That I watched for those. 

    0:45:38 - Speaker 8

    So it's interesting that it holds up. I was wondering how it would be approached by somebody who hasn't seen it before, Because I'm trying to think of it from your perspective. I'm like god, it's not pretty looking. It's the technologies clunky in the towering. And for now you're like the headphones and all that, but like I can't, Rotary phones Yeah, rotary phones are the villain. 

    0:45:56 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, i think it's funny. 

    0:45:57 - Speaker 5

    I think you can watch the conversation right now, and I think, of all the movies on this list, this is the one movie that friends of mine, who are casual movie fans, always find a way to come around to. It seems like every year there are more people that know about this movie and see it And they're like, wow, what did you think of that? I really loved it And I think that really stands to how timeless this movie can be. I mean, this could be a movie that was made today, for sure, with the same technology, and make it a period piece, and it would be just as good if you knew it. 

    0:46:26 - Speaker 1

    Yeah, it's called The Lives of Others. Yeah, exactly. 

    0:46:29 - Speaker 5

    But it's not as good of a movie? Definitely not. But the other thing that I really love about the conversation is oh god, i forgot what I was going to say. No, it's a. 

    0:46:43 - Speaker 8

    Did you think of it like blow up? Did you think No, no, no, no, no, no. 

    0:46:46 - Speaker 5

    Well, I mean, there is something interesting to be said about how this film can sort of go one better than all of the other surveillance films of the era, and I think there's a lot more to unpack with the conversation on a subtextual level, like Norm was saying, and there's a lot that you can sort of draw on from history. 

    0:47:05 - Speaker 8

    Is it like blow out? a lot I haven't seen blow out. Blow out is like the conversation. Yeah, it kind of is. It's the diploma going. 

    0:47:11 - Speaker 4

    Oh yeah, i can do that. 

    0:47:12 - Speaker 7

    Yeah, no, that's exactly what that movie. The blow up movie Which was done in 68?, 66. 66. Was it like that? 

    0:47:18 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, It's one of those things where yeah, i mean with De Palma it's always a remake of something, it's always riffing on something, but the conversation stands apart in a way that. 

    0:47:26 - Speaker 7

    I don't think blow out goes. 

    0:47:28 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, i just. I have this game that I play these days because there's this Canadian horror film that I think I could make a brilliant case for. I don't think I could do it myself, but I think a Mumblecore remake of Scanners would be the best thing, because the movie is so limited and so minimal that the only way to do justice to it is by keeping it small. If you're going to re like, i don't think it should be remade, but if you're going to do one, that's the one that that genre would fit. So you've been sort of getting consumed with well, what else could work like that? And the conversation absolutely does, because it's something you have to strip down to emotions and motivation And that's how that genre works. And the conversation is already there. Like there's nothing in this movie that is hard to conceive of or impossible to imagine, and the idea that maybe your phone can ring and then you pick it up and it becomes a live microphone. That's not hard to swallow. 

    0:48:15 - Speaker 7

    No, at least they still talk. You do it yourself on GPS. I don't think they do that. They do it myself on GPS. 

    0:48:19 - Speaker 4

    Hyperparanoia is your laptop. 

    0:48:20 - Speaker 5

    We're being recorded right now. Yeah, why. 

    0:48:23 - Speaker 4

    What, What? Yeah Well, the question is how many of our devices are recording us? Right, right, right. But you could do it and not really change very much And it could still have the same. I would hope it had the same emotional impact if you get the right actors. 

    0:48:36 - Speaker 7

    I think about Giovanni. 

    0:48:37 - Speaker 4

    Robisi in a plastic coat. He could do this Like there's no reason this movie could not happen now And for a minimal budget. I mean, obviously the gimmick doesn't work if you're doing tearing in front of you or something, but the idea of the themes and the story playing out at a micro budget always says to me that yeah, there's something here that is bigger than the movie you're watching And it's what you engage with while you watch it. This is absolutely a movie. 

    0:49:04 - Speaker 3

    I would show people if they said you know you missed the context, You missed it. If you didn't see it at the time of I would slot this movie down and say, watch it right now because I think you're right. The themes are there, The tone is, you would get the same feeling that you got in a movie theater in 1974. Pretty close to it. Oh, thank you, I remember what I was going to say. 

    0:49:28 - Speaker 1

    That sorry. Those were really good at home. 

    0:49:30 - Speaker 5

    Before I forget it again, No, I was going to say that this is a good companion piece to something like Chinatown in terms of what takes place that year, because Chinatown, as we were discussing, is a film about someone who's bad at their job screwing up. The conversation is about someone who's really good at their job screwing up. 

    0:49:46 - Speaker 7

    But who had screwed up in the past too. Yeah, exactly. 

    0:49:49 - Speaker 5

    But I mean, I find that to be an interesting sort of thing to pair those two movies up against one another. And there's such different movies too. The conversation is a lot. It's weird Tonally, chinatown might be a little bit darker and more disturbing than the conversation is. 

    0:50:06 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, because it's personal Yeah. 

    0:50:08 - Speaker 5

    But the conversation is the grittier movie. 

    0:50:11 - Speaker 7

    Yeah, i think the plot points hit almost at the exact same time. You'd be right up to the lovemaking scene. Yeah, it's kind of true. 

    0:50:16 - Speaker 5

    It'd be interesting to pair the two up if you watched them immediately, one after the other, yeah, But they're both reactions to the same thing, so that's what interests me. 

    0:50:27 - Speaker 4

    This is what people were obsessing about enough to get a movie made different coasts, the stuff from the moment he checked into the hotel, though is so nightmarish Ripping to me, yeah. 

    0:50:37 - Speaker 8

    Like I couldn't Oh the toilet. 

    0:50:38 - Speaker 7

    Is that the toilet? Yeah, yeah, the whole you know sequence. 

    0:50:41 - Speaker 3

    I thought it was a dream sequence. Oh man, when the toilet starts backing up. Yeah, it's a dream like this. 

    0:50:45 - Speaker 4

    It's wrapped up in that. That's so good. That's David Lynch right there. Yeah, he's inventing Lynch, for sure. 

    0:50:49 - Speaker 6

    Yeah, well, it's one of the great sound design with this ball top which has clearly made massive influence on Lynch. And yeah, and I think that is like inseparable from it. It doesn't have much of a soundtrack on it. It's not the same movie. Sure, because so much of it is in contrast to what you see. So much of it is changing things afterwards. Yeah, and I think it's a great movie that you could watch five times and get five completely different things out of it, yeah, and it's. 

    0:51:11 - Speaker 4

    It's a hold on him to release a movie with that kind of sound design in 1974 when there was no sound design. Right, like when you've got a mono speaker and it probably shorts out 20 minutes into it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

    0:51:18 - Speaker 1

    When did it come out in? In? 

    0:51:19 - Speaker 3

    comparison with the next one we'll talk about, like what was the Conversation? was first He? Oh yeah, it was first Yeah. 

    0:51:27 - Speaker 6

    And it was like at that time finishing Godfather 2. Right, yeah, because he basically left the entire post-production to Walter Merge. Yeah, so he could do Godfather 2. And Walter Merge is like the second author of that movie. 

    0:51:38 - Speaker 3

    He's like my hero, yeah. So let's dive into Godfather 2, and I'll preface this by saying there's been a lot said, written, discussed about Godfather 2. I don't know how much more we'll bring. So, I don't know what else we need to say about this really, really, really great film. Yeah, I do welcome you to say some things of course, or that would be pointless. 

    0:52:00 - Speaker 7

    I have something. I don't know if this has been, but I think watching it again and I'll preface this by saying that I think the first time I saw the Godfather films was as the TV version, the Godfather saga, where they edited together chronologically, which was amazing to watch. So when I watch them now, i still have to like, isn't that in the other one? 

    I'm like I'm getting myself all muddled up. So watching this one I realize, why not cut it into two different films? Do the Vito Cardio in Persian and then make that Godfather 2 and then Godfather 3 be the 1959 stuff and fuck Godfather 3. 

    0:52:41 - Speaker 3

    Is that? 

    0:52:41 - Speaker 7

    Yeah, it just changed the ending so that his kid dies instead of Godfather 3. So then you get the full circle thing right. It's all Your family's always going to get fucked. 

    0:52:48 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, but you need the contrast, you need them to play off each other. Yeah, and then you go compromise himself as Michael compromises himself, because otherwise you would spend 90 minutes with Vito. And then it's just like oh well, did you never talk to? 

    0:53:00 - Speaker 7

    your dad Did you not realize. 

    0:53:03 - Speaker 4

    And then, because the great revelation here is no, you never did Like, he didn't have that for now, but he doesn't know about the family And they're both the same age, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, so they're the same age doing the same things, but one's obviously better than the other one And it's a different trajectory. 

    0:53:16 - Speaker 8

    One's going up in their shining star of gangsterism and the other one's going down. And I can't. I'm going to wait until youare you done? 

    0:53:23 - Speaker 7

    No, I'm done. Yeah, I just played the phone. 

    0:53:25 - Speaker 8

    I'm going to start by saying this is the bestthis is my favorite movie of all time, so this is like difficult for me to you know tone it down. I hated it when I first watched it Really. Yeah, i was like this is fucking confusing. I was like in great time, Okay, I was like this is confusing And I had. I watched it Godfather's backwards, Like I saw the three first, which is why I don't hate it. 

    0:53:42 - Speaker 7

    I'm like this is kind of cool, this is great this movie. 

    0:53:44 - Speaker 8

    And look, who's that young guy, is that supposed to be El Pacino, you know, in the flashbacks. And the third one, anyway. So I saw the first one and I was like awesome, whatever. And the second one was confusing, whatever. And I kept coming back to it and, oh my God, now it's justand, now that I have a son, this whole family thing of like, what's he going to be like when he's my age and, you know, living in thisand the cast is just killer Fredo Like. Is he the best actor that died too soon? Yeah, absolutely I was. I found the plot confusing because Iwhat did I have in Roth do, like who shot the window? You know, but what, you watch it over and over and it's just, you know, it's beautiful, the music works, the acting works, the plot works. Did you watch it again for this? 

    0:54:23 - Speaker 3

    Yeah, it's so good, i loved it. You didn't need an excuse, but you took it anyway and watched it again. 

    0:54:29 - Speaker 8

    I mean, i didn't watch the whole thing. You know what killer is the last scene? Brando didn't want to come back and so Coppola stuck with this reunion scene and so he keeps Michael in the kitchen or in the dining room while everybody else goes and sings happy birthday to get. It's the best ending there could be because it's so related to Yeah, no, the Thematically it's amazing. 

    0:54:49 - Speaker 4

    You'll never live up to your father. You've already Exactly. 

    0:54:51 - Speaker 1

    You can't get him back. 

    0:54:52 - Speaker 4

    It's incredible And thatI think that's why you need to experience them just opposed together. But Oh Man, yeah, i'm actually nowI'm pissed at myself. There was a press screening of the restored 4K version Thursday morning and I couldn't go because it was three and a half hours long and there was a 

    0:55:06 - Speaker 6

    day and. 

    0:55:07 - Speaker 4

    I had stuff against it. I'm mad at myself Yeah no I. 

    0:55:12 - Speaker 6

    It is the same restoration that's on the Blu-ray, so Yeah, no, i completely agree that I love them separate and I think Godfather 2, one of the reasons why it's the greatest sequel ever is I think it makes the original one better by virtue of the fact it exists, because I think the original one is obviously a masterpiece, but it is kind of pulpy and like a perfectly executed bit of entertainment. What elevates it is how Coppola shoots it and the thematic eye obviously. 

    But what I like about the second one is it's like the subtext of the first one becomes the text of the second one And the way that they play out, the way that it's sort of the prequel, sequel aspect, the way they play out each other, it sort of deepens what you know from the first one, takes your memories from all those indelible scenes that are burning your mind forever, plays with them, toys with them. I always. I think one of the most powerful sequences of all movies is after De Niro does the assassination and then he goes and he picks up the boy and they play the theme song and it's just so heartbreaking and devastating and And the stuff with the oranges, like the business. 

    0:56:03 - Speaker 4

    Totally Right, the business that's seen throughout the film. 

    0:56:06 - Speaker 6

    The moment where they play the score on the Like. That only works because you've seen the first one, you know the context, you know we're going to go back to Michael in the present day and see what a tragic state that is And I think, yeah, i think, if you put it chronologically, that's still a powerful moment, just because that whole assassination sequence is so sturdier. But I think you need whatever four and a half hours or whatever it takes to get to that moment for it to hit, and I think that's Yeah, i just think it's. 

    Yeah, I think The Godfather would always be a classic movie. I think the reason why people always talk about Intert's second being one of the best to remain is because of the second one, yeah, and how it sort of deepens and expands. 

    0:56:39 - Speaker 5

    Exactly, i think the first film is an excellent film. First film is great. The second film is not only a better excellent film, but it's also an epic. This is such a sprawling movie. Just the ambition that it takes to even conceive of a storyline like this. That's this fractured and going back and forth. And I'll admit I was never really a fan of the chronological cut because I think it kind of. I think it does dampen the impact of what the second film specifically is trying to do, which is trying to lend context to the first film. And I mean it doesn't treat the Like most sequels, it doesn't treat the audience like an idiot that they have to remind them of everything that happened in the first film, because it's The Godfather, you should know what happened in the first film. 

    0:57:29 - Speaker 6

    And it's written for the contrast. It's like you were saying how you're not having a cue. But I think if you put it chronologically that's a major problem, because that last hour made no sense, but in this it doesn't I get it now. 

    0:57:38 - Speaker 1

    Yeah, yeah, yeah Oh man. Sorry. 

    0:57:42 - Speaker 8

    But it almost doesn't matter, because it's all about the themes, right. Exactly, it's about seeing him Well, the first one, he's building up his family, and the second one, kay, had an abortion. His Michael's family's falling apart. 

    0:57:53 - Speaker 4

    It's just beautiful. Oh, it's all about the grudges, it's about the history, it's about the shit you carry with you, which is why it's universal, which is why everybody who's ever had a family understands what's going on, even if they don't know the first thing about heroin trafficking, destroying the mob in Brooklyn. But it's, oh man, so good It's. I had this joke that I cannot land. I've been trying for years now to say that the Fast and Furious movies are trying to do what the Godfather movies do, by playing with chronology and giving you characters that you can Yeah, they're template and make. They're template and make sound. 

    0:58:29 - Speaker 5

    That's the problem. 

    0:58:31 - Speaker 7

    It's just like. 

    0:58:32 - Speaker 4

    The joke is that the Fast and Furious movies are the ones doing it. 

    0:58:35 - Speaker 6

    Well, sadly that's the legacy of Godfather 2 now. 

    0:58:37 - Speaker 3

    Yeah, it's the Fast and Furious movies. 

    0:58:38 - Speaker 4

    That's the thing. That makes no sense at all. Wait, I'm talking about the sequel. 

    0:58:43 - Speaker 8

    Are the later sequels better than the original? 

    0:58:45 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, Well, the idea of structuring and layering and the idea that, like, there's a guy who died in the third one, who finally dies in the end of the Yeah Yeah, Who comes back and now this movie's gonna take. 

    0:58:54 - Speaker 5

    This next movie's gonna take place after the third movie, maybe more movies to get to the end of. 

    0:58:59 - Speaker 4

    Tokyo Drift And it's just like yeah, that's not what Michael Corleone done before. 

    0:59:04 - Speaker 3

    That's not why this happened. That's a good punchline. That's right, michael Corleone on the Time. This is Yeah, thanks guys. Workshop. 

    0:59:13 - Speaker 4

    But no, it is. There are so few movies that, first of all, i'm gonna make the sequel how I wanna make it. I'm gonna make an hour in Italian with subtitles. I'm going to cast a guy, nobody knows to replace Marlon Brando's most iconic performance ever And he's gonna be better than Brando. He's not gonna be his hammy. I'm going to just pretend James Cohn wasn't a big deal on the first. 

    0:59:38 - Speaker 1


    0:59:38 - Speaker 4

    Like he's dead, screw it. We're gonna keep moving. We're gonna find somebody else who's more charismatic Oh, there's no one who's more charismatic Oh, there's his dad. Like the way it knits itself together to find the story on the screen, on the page, like even before they shot it. just the solutions to all these questions are how do you follow up the Godfather? And every answer he came up with was right. 

    There are no wrong moves, the villains that got killed in the first one. here's some new ones. You'll like them too. Like just everything works. It's incredible. 

    1:00:03 - Speaker 3

    Has there been a director that had like a three-year period? Like, we just talked about conversation and you guys are talking about Godfather, It's Cronenberg Sotterberg. 

    1:00:10 - Speaker 4

    I mean the Bergs. 

    1:00:11 - Speaker 3

    That's a three-year period, though that is like holy fuck, Well you can extend it to the decades, right? 

    1:00:15 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, it's a whole decade. I mean, I went from the heart is the movie he wanted to make. 

    1:00:19 - Speaker 5


    1:00:20 - Speaker 4

    I don't know that it's a masterpiece. I'm pretty sure it's not. But it is what he wanted to do. It's an incredible experiment. It just doesn't. It just doesn't land it. 

    1:00:29 - Speaker 6

    I think it's just a person in the perfect time and place that he wanted to do. I think it's similar to like, say, I think George A Romero has the same similar trajectory from the 60s and 70s. He's kind of lost her After that lost And I think it's just yeah, time and place. It's just these are guys who, in a weird way, kind of did the same thing which refusing the American genre movie with the European art film. 

    1:00:50 - Speaker 7

    I think you can even say the same about Lucas in that decade. 

    1:00:52 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, yeah, couldn't put a foot wrong Until. 

    1:00:54 - Speaker 7

    Directors with glasses and beards. Yeah, it was the time. 

    1:00:57 - Speaker 4

    It was the time, well, spielberg's got 1941, so that throws you to the curb, Yeah. 

    1:01:02 - Speaker 5

    I was going to say Spielberg, and then I remember 1940. 

    1:01:05 - Speaker 7

    Seeing that movie in a theater, though I thoroughly do. Oh, that's so awesome. 

    1:01:08 - Speaker 5

    I don't think 1941's a bad movie No. 

    1:01:13 - Speaker 6

    And that's also like one of the great insane director movies. 

    1:01:16 - Speaker 7


    1:01:17 - Speaker 3

    Anything with Beletian candy. Yeah, I mean, I was like how much money is this really going to come. 

    1:01:22 - Speaker 4

    1941 is Spielberg's turn in front of us. 

    1:01:25 - Speaker 7

    It's like everyone peeped stuff on him. 

    1:01:27 - Speaker 4

    No, no, no no, no, you need to do this. What else can we get you? Well, i'd like also maybe Stephen Queen. Sure, put him in a fireman's hand. What about this? I think I would like some special effects. Okay, mr Allen, you made the Poseidon Adventure Here you go. What else do you want? 

    1:01:42 - Speaker 6

    But I also think there's something interesting where, like, what he was going for was to try and basically do what the Zuckers brothers then do Years later. He was trying to He let me boost it Yeah exactly. Like he knew there was a certain, there was something to that Mad Magazine Anarchy that could work in movies. He just had no fucking clue how to do it. 

    1:01:58 - Speaker 4

    And hiring. It's the last 20 minutes of animal house, Yeah exactly. 

    1:02:01 - Speaker 7

    Made for two and a half hours Exactly. Yeah, he produced Gremlins, though right Oh yeah. 

    1:02:05 - Speaker 4

    That was Dante. That's giving him some of the nose how to do stuff. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

    1:02:09 - Speaker 7

    I think he's smart enough by that, but definitely. 

    1:02:11 - Speaker 4

    But also, you know, dante had done it in 1941. 

    1:02:13 - Speaker 7

    You'd have an imagine, but isn't it interesting that. 

    1:02:16 - Speaker 8

    It isn't interesting that Spielberg, once you give him, you know, carte blanche in this instance, he totally just fucks it up. 

    1:02:21 - Speaker 1

    And then this is what Godfather 2, was It's like here's like Yeah, you can do whatever you want? 

    1:02:25 - Speaker 8

    No, it's the one, and he does this movie. that's unlike almost any other movie before. 

    1:02:29 - Speaker 5

    Yeah going Never made right. There's nothing quite like. And he was given that opportunity again with one for the heart and later in his career, especially now I don't see anyone second guessing anything that he's doing, or maybe his movies wouldn't be this terrible Right. 

    1:02:42 - Speaker 4

    But I mean, he's doing what, he's absolutely doing what he wants to do now. 

    1:02:44 - Speaker 5

    I mean he did what he wanted with this one, but you gotta remember it's still a major studio production. Someone had to fight him on a few things like whether they were minor or not. They probably had faith that he would be able to work through anything. 

    1:02:55 - Speaker 4

    I had rubberheads. It's just Rupert Hits was doing a lot of coke at that point. 

    1:02:59 - Speaker 6

    I don't know how much control he really had. He was banned from the set too. And it's also ironically a movie he didn't want to make. 

    1:03:06 - Speaker 7


    1:03:07 - Speaker 6

    This was supposed to be the commercial movie so I can make the conversation Right, right. And it just ends up being so in the zone that even when he's trying to do one for them, it's really not for him If you watch Godfather 3, you can see why the instincts don't always work. Oh, but the Godfather always needed a helicopter machine gun. Sequence I'm not dissing him, i'm not dissing him. And a dead pope. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not that bad, Just saying he's an idiot. 

    1:03:29 - Speaker 8

    That's not what it is. 

    1:03:30 - Speaker 4

    It is The problem with the Godfather 3 is that it has absolutely nowhere to go. 

    1:03:35 - Speaker 5

    after two It's not a bad movie. It's a movie that has no reason to exist. 

    1:03:39 - Speaker 8

    Yeah, yeah, it's just within its universe, though that silent scream at the end is amazing, i guess, but we don't. 

    1:03:46 - Speaker 5

    It's such an unnecessary movie. 

    1:03:48 - Speaker 8

    I don't hate it? 

    1:03:49 - Speaker 1

    I don't. It's just so unnecessary. Yeah, and it's also comparing it to its better looking older brother. 

    1:03:54 - Speaker 8

    It's the Godfather and Godfather 3. 

    1:03:56 - Speaker 2

    And those two movies are so like the brothers, That's a Fredo And it's all good happened to Fredo. 

    1:04:00 - Speaker 1

    Fredo's not around for three. 

    1:04:02 - Speaker 6

    And it's also everything they're trying to communicate in part three is just that last shot of Mark Parleone and the Godfather 2. 

    1:04:09 - Speaker 7

    It's all there and one guy why even Yeah? 

    1:04:11 - Speaker 8

    yeah, yeah. 

    1:04:13 - Speaker 6

    It didn't need three hours in Andy Garcia to do it again. 

    1:04:14 - Speaker 8

    No, it's. Sweden needs more hours in Andy Garcia. 

    1:04:16 - Speaker 1

    We don't need Andy Garcia period. 

    1:04:17 - Speaker 7

    I want to look at his bank statements. 

    1:04:19 - Speaker 4

    I want to reel it in and go around the table and hear. I have a good idea. 

    1:04:23 - Speaker 3

    One movie that's going to be pulled from everyone's ballot. But I want to go around the table and hear, if you guys made the ballot, what would you call from the list and what would you add to the list? I mean, throw in why as well. It's tricky. We'll start over here with you. 

    1:04:38 - Speaker 7

    Oh well, i definitely take. I leave everything except towering inferno. And then I couldn't figure what to put on. I have like almost a list of another five like taking up helm, one, two, three, four musketeers. It's not brilliant but it's a watchable Sure. It's better than towering inferno. A apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz. Get some Canadian films in there Blazing Saddles, why not Dundee or head? I'm going to say apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz. 

    1:05:11 - Speaker 6

    I like this one too, the Canadian cool. It's still like you watching. You still get uncomfortable. 

    1:05:37 - Speaker 7

    Yeah, 30 years later. 

    1:05:40 - Speaker 4

    I think we were as uncomfortable 40 years ago. 

    1:05:41 - Speaker 6

    Totally yeah, yeah yeah, you want you. I mean you watch, bring design still hilarious. I'm not gonna pretend for a second. It's not, it's just blazing saddles, the actually it actually feels like it's. It means something. 

    1:05:51 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, i think I honestly think that if prior had played yes, it would be as good, but for me I'm just like such a pitch perfect parody. Yeah, everything it wants to do is Is there. And Jean Wilder It's my favorite performance of his and he co-wrote it. So he's writing to a string that he worked on blazing saddles as well, but the young frankincense script is just like it's it endless Stream of pleasures. Also less Brooks, which is a huge thing for me. 

    1:06:16 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, well, that one seen it out and that's you know. Yeah, i still, i still like His second great performance in 1974. 

    1:06:26 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, i'm sorry, i saw you conversation. 

    1:06:28 - Speaker 5

    Oh, jumping to me. Um, i, i definitely would not include towering inferno on this ballot ever for a second. I also. I mean I touched on this before, i wouldn't. I wouldn't do Lenny either. I mean I think Lenny's fine, but I wouldn't have included it in this five. A couple of things that you brought up, but we're also on mine. A Apprenticeship of daddy Kravitz was on mine, taking a poem, one, two, three. Another film that I really love There. There are so many things this year that I could go to bat for. I could even go to bat for something like day for night, longest year Hearts and minds I could. I could go to bat for Murray murder on the Orient Express if I wanted to. But the one that I would I would go for is woman under the influence, with General and greatest performance ever, with unquestionably one of the best performances by any actress ever just any actor. 

    1:07:23 - Speaker 8

    That's his best movie. 

    1:07:25 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, it's a it's a career best for everyone involved in Cassavetes is so underrated. 

    1:07:31 - Speaker 6

    He did get the director nomination, which I was surprised he did and and Roland and she got her. 

    1:07:36 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, she got hers, but I mean, it's just In comparison to something like Lenny and towering inferno. I'm like there's no. This movie should have been on this, on this final ballot. 

    1:07:46 - Speaker 6

    So that would be the one that I would really throw it totally agree to you, and I think it's also service name and have the Academy more like that. Clearly should have been in the fifth and they give it. It's fucking towering inferno. 

    1:07:55 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, because they want to pat themselves on the back to spend so much money. Yeah, there's too much money involved. The towering inferno. I could not be the queen insisting more opposite than the woman in the other influence in towering inferno. 

    1:08:07 - Speaker 4

    Those are the extremes. Now a woman under the towering inferno. 

    1:08:10 - Speaker 6

    I Replace McQueen. 

    1:08:23 - Speaker 5

    Instead of McQueen and Newman. 

    1:08:27 - Speaker 7

    Adventure to, so you could do. 

    1:08:32 - Speaker 8

    All right, so. 

    1:08:33 - Speaker 6

    I also yeah, I gotta go with the four, except for towering inferno. 

    1:08:38 - Speaker 7

    I know. 

    1:08:39 - Speaker 6

    I briefly considered dropping Lenny, but I love it too much I can't do it. So for my fifth spot, just to be like there are so many, like California split and so many and Texas chains on masquer even I would put in, although feels appropriate. so The one I'm gonna go with is I bring to the head of Alfredo Persever, oh yeah, just, and every possible way and like and Again. I just think of in terms of this being a year of then it would make it five movies about, yeah, wrendlessly horrible that was on my list too. 

    Yeah, and the other one I would consider also, just because I think it's so deeply underrated, would be Shakerland Express Spielberg's first feature problem, which I think is amazing, kind of indicative of a type of Yeah, jose. 

    1:09:30 - Speaker 8

    I I probably definitely would have dropped towering inferno, that's coming from a suit. 

    1:09:37 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, yeah, yeah, well. Well, the movie made it to money. That's all you should care about. 

    1:09:43 - Speaker 8

    From that perspective, i'm like you know I'm in the machine, but I'm not we made the money. 

    1:09:47 - Speaker 5

    Who cares if it gets the award? 

    1:09:48 - Speaker 8

    everyone saw it and Lenny, it probably would have dropped, because there's a couple of the movies that came out this year that I Wanted to put in but I didn't realize women under the influence was there. So that's definitely. That's an amazing movie, but I love Allison and live here anymore and I leave fear. It's the soul. So I don't know if I realized to put German movies in this or no, yeah, whatever you love. 

    Yeah, that would be my fifth one. I leave fear. Fear eats the soul. It's this really. It's like a weirdo movie but it's fast-finder. Yeah, it's fast-finder. It's about a Maraca. I think he's Maraca is a black man with an older German woman and they have it's like a love story. It's basically like a Douglas Cerk movie done in like German, I guess in Berlin, in the system. 

    Yeah, no it is written on the way Yeah, it is, it is written when and it's like it's weird, like it's they do tabloids in the movie like people, but you walk into a scene and they're all sort of frozen kind of in a weird way. It's. It's not for everybody, but as far as like filmmaking, what we should support in the you know, ward season, this is totally one for me. 

    1:10:46 - Speaker 7

    So did they have foreign film Oscars in 70s? 

    1:10:51 - Speaker 8

    Yeah yeah they would have one, didn't it? It did I think okay, no, i didn't get nominated for that. 

    1:10:54 - Speaker 6

    It was one of those weird ones where it didn't get. I think it like Frans didn't put it forward as its movie, so that's why it Everything else. I could be wrong. I do know I could be wrong, but I think it's one of those weird years. 

    1:11:05 - Speaker 4

    I'm okay, i'm gonna quickly jump into my name because I would keep Godfather 2 and Chinatown in the conversation. I'm conflicted about Lenny. I like it a lot, but there are two other films that I would put on that ballot instead Zardos and Emmanuel. Yeah, absolutely. Women under the influence, absolutely, i think it says. I think it's as radical in its filmmaking as Ali is. Yeah, for its time and for who made it too. But I also want to give a little love to Alice doesn't live here anymore which everyone forgot. 

    1:11:37 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, I kind of like that was online. Yeah, I'm not accusing anyone of forgetting. 

    1:11:40 - Speaker 4

    But it's just the kind of movie that never, because it's so calm and quietly crafted and Observational, and because we don't think about Martin Scorsese picture being that kind of movie It just everyone forgets. It's there and it. That's one that I just, you know, i don't want it to slip away, i want people to go out and find it if they listen to this, because it's so good, he's so good in it, yeah. 

    1:12:01 - Speaker 6

    I tell the titles best performance. It's just one of those words. The competition was so intense I couldn't you know was like six or seven down the list when I shouldn't have been yeah, yeah, that's how good a year. 

    1:12:11 - Speaker 7

    The towering infernal because they couldn't choose. Yeah, but in Scorsese's photography. 

    1:12:16 - Speaker 8

    It's really the best quiet movie that he's ever done. 

    1:12:18 - Speaker 4

    You know, yeah, there's like the good fellas and everything, but as far as the smaller movie with Jodie Foster, we can't find it, yeah, working against his instincts like all the time, yeah, and just letting scenes play and, maybe because of the sitcom, sort of overtook the concept of Alice. I think that's crazy. 

    1:12:34 - Speaker 8

    I didn't know that that existed until wait after I saw the movie. 

    1:12:36 - Speaker 4

    Right and for a lot of people don't see other Around us in syndication and everybody just inundated with that opening, with shot like a 50s melodrama. Yeah, it's just a direct poke in the idol, as pictures show, i think. Take the ass cut off and live like it's East Coast, west Coast, it's like that's funny. Yeah, it's just. 

    1:13:00 - Speaker 1

    And also. 

    1:13:00 - Speaker 4

    Ellen burst and, coming off the exorcist, who do you want to work with? Oh, the taxi driver guy. Like he's not yeah. I'm trying to make it before you make that, make this for me, and boy, it's good I. 

    1:13:09 - Speaker 3

    Just looked up for film and no, it was not France. Okay, france, it's a mid a movie. It was a La Cone, lucien, it's what. 

    1:13:14 - Speaker 6

    I thought because I was a lot. When you see porn films, now many other categories, it's like an apology get this out, if you guys don't have. 

    1:13:20 - Speaker 3

    It's called meet the awards. 

    1:13:21 - Speaker 6

    It's okay, it's just a comprehensive Awards happen you can see check off the movies you've seen and it keeps a database for you. Yeah, day for night, which we didn't talk about, that's one of the greatest Making ever made so we got for this here director for that too. 

    1:13:36 - Speaker 3

    We've all put together our nominees and We have to ask the question does 1974 Require a do-over Around the table? 

    1:13:49 - Speaker 8

    Jose says no. 

    1:13:51 - Speaker 7

    I Would give the time down, but I'll say I'll go, okay, it doesn't need no, doesn't need it. 

    1:13:58 - Speaker 5

    Yeah, between those two, you guys had a lot of love for Godfather, part two. 

    1:14:02 - Speaker 3

    So I don't think you should feel bad about. 

    1:14:07 - Speaker 5

    By China town but yeah. 

    1:14:09 - Speaker 4

    I'm entirely fine with Godfather 2 winning, but China town and the conversation are both yeah just yeah, just as well any other year, They would have one. 

    1:14:18 - Speaker 8


    1:14:18 - Speaker 6

    I was sure it's just waiting to do. it's got father, Yeah what's gonna do? 

    1:14:21 - Speaker 3

    it's got father too. 

    1:14:23 - Speaker 6

    They had t-shirts. There was a reason Um yeah, i just you can't. It's just one of the greatest achievements Filmmaking ever cool. 

    1:14:32 - Speaker 4

    Yeah, you get out of the way. Yeah, yeah, how do you not acknowledge that No? 

    1:14:36 - Speaker 3

    Well, thank you for giving me your Sunday. everybody, thank you, it was a lot of fun. 

    1:14:40 - Speaker 7

    Watch 27 hours of film Like three three-hour films in? 

    1:14:44 - Speaker 3

    there wasn't. There was one of the most towering inferno. 

    1:14:47 - Speaker 7

    Oh yeah, it doesn't need to be long. like there wasn't even character development, So I bother. 

    1:14:52 - Speaker 3

    So if there's one take away from today, it's don't watch towering inferno, i suppose. 

    1:14:59 - Speaker 7

    Don't give a nosker. 

    1:15:03 - Speaker 3

    Conversation three times, or watch it twice to and a half, whatever certain. 

    1:15:07 - Speaker 6

    There's a YouTube montage of everything you need to see in tower. 

    1:15:10 - Speaker 8

    Right, i haven't looked it up, but I'm sure it's like the trailer, for it is probably good. Yeah, watch it. It's a long ass trailer. Yeah, it's what I did, yeah that's fine. 

    1:15:18 - Speaker 3

    Well, thanks again. 

    1:15:27 - Speaker 2

    And just like that, episode one is done. 1974 stays just like it was the Godfather. Part two rain supreme, as is only good, and just Thanks again to norm. Phil, jose, david and Andrew will be back with movies from the year 1975 and on and on Into the future. It's gonna be one heck of a ride for your Reconsideration. We'll talk soon. 

    1:16:03 - Speaker 3

    For your reconsideration is the production of dover podcast such to subscribe share rate review. Please visit doveracom Do. Ah podcast, some such. 

    1h 16m | May 14, 2023
  • Episode 1 - 1974 Primer

    Join Host, Matti Price as he gives you the lowdown on the 1974 Best Picture nominees and a run down of what you can expect on For Your Reconsideration.

    7m | May 7, 2023
  • Episode 0 - Trailer

    Welcome to For Your Reconsideration an Oscars Podcast. Coming May 7, 2023

    2m | May 3, 2023
For Your Reconsideration - An Oscars Podcast