An exploration of the creative life, lived in the in-between.A sanctuary for the creative spirit in a results-obsessed world.Moving beyond the highlight reel, hosts and working musicians Aaron Shafer-Haiss and Michaela Anne facilitate intimate, artist-to-artist conversations with renowned musicians, authors, visual artists and actors about the grit required to sustain a life in the arts. From navigating doubt to finding stillness, this is the reality of the work. Unfiltered.

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/9/8/19/7d340820-acbe-4c76-8833-84aa1bd9e5d6_to_167_madison_cunningham_final.mp3

In a culture that demands creative output be loud, continuous, and universally relatable, what does it mean to plant your flag in the quiet, specific, and unpolished? Grammy-winning artist and guitarist Madison Cunningham joins us with raw generosity, examining the dissonance between holding music’s highest honors and sitting with everyday feelings of failure. Across an intimate hour, we delve into the discipline of ignoring both praise and venom, how teaching unlocked her own creative permission, and Mary Oliver’s timeless directive to never hesitate when leaning into what gives us joy.In This Episode:<ul><li><a href="https://www.madisoncunningham.com/" rel="nofollow">Madison Cunningham </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remi_Wolf" rel="nofollow">Remi Wolf </a></li><li><a href="http://www.theother22hours.com/archive" rel="nofollow">Ep 56 - Guster </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_Parton" rel="nofollow">Dolly Parton </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Viola" rel="nofollow">Mike Viola </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Oliver" rel="nofollow">Mary Oliver </a></li><li><a href="https://www.neil.blog/articles/dont-hesitate-by-mary-oliver" rel="nofollow">&#34;Don&#39;t Hesitate&#34; (Poem by Mary Oliver)</a></li></ul> Go Deeper:<ul><li>Watch: View this entire conversation on<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours" rel="nofollow"> YouTube</a>.</li><li>Explore: Find similar conversations in <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours/playlists" rel="nofollow">these themed playlists</a>.</li><li>Connect: Join the conversation on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/theother22hours/?hl=en" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>.</li></ul> The Hosts:The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).<ul><li>More about <a href="http://www.shaferhaiss.com" rel="nofollow">Aaron’s work</a>.</li><li>More about <a href="http://www.michaelaanne.com" rel="nofollow">Michaela Anne’s work</a>.</li></ul> Credits: Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the <a href="https://thebluegrasssituation.com/podcasts/" rel="nofollow">Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network</a>.

In a culture that demands creative output be loud, continuous, and universally relatable, what does it mean to plant your flag in the quiet, specific, and unpolished? Grammy-winning artist and guitarist Madison Cunningham joins us with raw generosity, examining the dissonance between holding music’s highest honors and sitting with everyday feelings of failure. Across an intimate hour, we delve into the discipline of ignoring both praise and venom, how teaching unlocked her own creative permission, and Mary Oliver’s timeless directive to never hesitate when leaning into what gives us joy.

Madison Cunningham on letting go of work, shifting ambition, and subconscious burner accounts.

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/9/1/4/fe631448-d897-4b3d-a435-5d622be9bd07_to_166_jim_james_final.mp3

As the frontman of Grammy-nominated rock band My Morning Jacket, Jim James has spent decades at the center of new alternative. His long list of achievements includes a solo catalog of five studio albums, recording as part of the supergroup Monsters of Folk, and producing artists such as Ray LaMontagne, S.G. Goodman and Basia Bulat. Yet, beneath these accomplishments was an exhausting cycle of perfectionism and self-loathing fueled by the quiet fear that rest equals irrelevance. In this tender and expansive conversation, Jim explores what happened when he stopped trying to outrun his own shadow. He reflects on four years of sobriety, the transformative nature of EMDR and parts work therapy, learning to dance with his creative muse rather than whip the workhorse, and why reclaiming true creative vitality starts by making peace with the human being inside.In This Episode:<ul><li><a href="https://www.jimjames.com/" rel="nofollow">Jim James </a></li><li><a href="https://mymorningjacket.com/" rel="nofollow">My Morning Jacket </a></li><li><a href="https://irisdement.com/home" rel="nofollow">Iris DeMent </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grateful_Dead" rel="nofollow">Grateful Dead </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Cobain" rel="nofollow">Kurt Cobain </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nina_Simone" rel="nofollow">Nina Simone </a></li><li><a href="https://jimjames.bandcamp.com/album/wowed-out" rel="nofollow">Wowed Out</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Reitzell" rel="nofollow">Brian Reitzell </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_O%27Brien_(music_producer)" rel="nofollow">Brendan O&#39;Brien </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Broemel" rel="nofollow">Carl Broemel </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Koster" rel="nofollow">Bo Koster </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billie_Eilish" rel="nofollow">Billie Eilish</a> </li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kane_Parsons" rel="nofollow">Kane Parsons </a></li><li><a href="https://www.imdb.com/title/tt26657236/" rel="nofollow">The Backrooms</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Bowl" rel="nofollow">Hollywood Bowl </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Weir" rel="nofollow">Bob Weir </a></li><li><a href="http://www.theother22hours.com/archive" rel="nofollow">Ep 80 - John Moreland </a></li><li><a href="https://mankindproject.org/" rel="nofollow">ManKind Project </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Rogers" rel="nofollow">Mister Rogers</a></li></ul> Go Deeper:<ul><li>Watch: View this entire conversation on<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours" rel="nofollow"> YouTube</a>.</li><li>Explore: Find similar conversations in <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours/playlists" rel="nofollow">these themed playlists</a>.</li><li>Connect: Join the conversation on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/theother22hours/?hl=en" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>.</li></ul>The Hosts:The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).<ul><li>More about <a href="http://www.shaferhaiss.com" rel="nofollow">Aaron’s work</a>.</li><li>More about <a href="http://www.michaelaanne.com" rel="nofollow">Michaela Anne’s work</a>.</li></ul>Credits: Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the <a href="https://thebluegrasssituation.com/podcasts/" rel="nofollow">Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network</a>.

As the frontman of Grammy-nominated rock band My Morning Jacket, Jim James has spent decades at the center of new alternative. His long list of achievements includes a solo catalog of five studio albums, recording as part of the supergroup Monsters of Folk, and producing artists such as Ray LaMontagne, S.G. Goodman and Basia Bulat. Yet, beneath these accomplishments was an exhausting cycle of perfectionism and self-loathing fueled by the quiet fear that rest equals irrelevance. In this tender and expansive conversation, Jim explores what happened when he stopped trying to outrun his own shadow. He reflects on four years of sobriety, the transformative nature of EMDR and parts work therapy, learning to dance with his creative muse rather than whip the workhorse, and why reclaiming true creative vitality starts by making peace with the human being inside.

Jim James on the illusion of arrival, healing the internal workhorse, and alien-mandated therapy.

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/8/26/3/6c4efb21-bbbf-4265-86c5-de52ada8675b_to_165_brandy_clark_rerun_83_final.mp3

We are often sold the myth that success cures insecurity. Brandy Clark joins us to unravel that narrative. Named one of the &#39;&#34;30 Greatest Living Songwriters&#34; earlier this year by the New York Times, she is also a Grammy-winning artist who has placed her songs with Kacey Musgraves, Miranda Lambert, Keith Urban and Reba McEntire. In addition, she is the co-writer of the Tony Award-winning musical Shucked. In this beautiful conversation, originally aired in November 2024, she opens up about her fifteen-year journey to a breakthrough, the courage it takes to be a gay woman in country music, and the importance of only staying in rooms where you feel like a genius.In This Episode:<ul><li><a href="https://www.brandyclarkmusic.com/" rel="nofollow">Brandy Clark</a></li><li><a href="https://www.umusicpub.com/si/news/umpg-nashville-appoints-cyndi-forman" rel="nofollow">Cyndi Forman</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Brainard" rel="nofollow">Dave Brainard</a></li><li><a href="https://shuckedmusical.com/" rel="nofollow">Shucked Musical</a></li><li><a href="http://www.theother22hours.com/archive" rel="nofollow">Ep 60 - Lori McKenna</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessie_Jo_Dillon" rel="nofollow">Jessie Jo Dillan</a></li><li><a href="http://www.theother22hours.com/archive" rel="nofollow">Ep 43 - Gretchen Peters</a></li><li><a href="http://www.theother22hours.com/archive" rel="nofollow">Ep 46 - Mary Chapin Carpenter</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Urban" rel="nofollow">Kieth Urban</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_Yoakam" rel="nofollow">Dwight Yokam</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandi_Carlile" rel="nofollow">Brandi Carlisle</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shangri-La_(recording_studio)" rel="nofollow">Shangri-La Studio</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_McAnally" rel="nofollow">Shane McAnally</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K.d._lang" rel="nofollow">k.d.lang</a></li><li><a href="http://www.theother22hours.com/archive" rel="nofollow">Ep 126 - Chely Wright</a></li><li><a href="http://www.theother22hours.com/archive" rel="nofollow">Ep 97 - Fancy Hagood</a></li></ul> Go Deeper:<ul><li>Watch: View this entire conversation on<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours" rel="nofollow"> YouTube</a>.</li><li>Explore: Find similar conversations in <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours/playlists" rel="nofollow">these themed playlists</a>.</li><li>Connect: Join the conversation on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/theother22hours/?hl=en" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>.</li></ul>The Hosts:The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).<ul><li>More about <a href="http://www.shaferhaiss.com" rel="nofollow">Aaron’s work</a>.</li><li>More about <a href="http://www.michaelaanne.com" rel="nofollow">Michaela Anne’s work</a>.</li></ul>Credits: Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the <a href="https://thebluegrasssituation.com/podcasts/" rel="nofollow">Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network</a>.

We are often sold the myth that success cures insecurity. Brandy Clark joins us to unravel that narrative. Named one of the &#39;&#34;30 Greatest Living Songwriters&#34; earlier this year by the New York Times, she is also a Grammy-winning artist who has placed her songs with Kacey Musgraves, Miranda Lambert, Keith Urban and Reba McEntire. In addition, she is the co-writer of the Tony Award-winning musical Shucked. In this beautiful conversation, originally aired in November 2024, she opens up about her fifteen-year journey to a breakthrough, the courage it takes to be a gay woman in country music, and the importance of only staying in rooms where you feel like a genius.

Brandy Clark on standing out, surviving self doubt, and friendship bracelets.

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/8/19/3/c08b2a50-b684-4340-9654-9be11a015cdf_to_164_maggie_smith_rerun_96_final.mp3

What if the messiness of life isn’t an obstacle to making art, but the very material itself? In this reissued conversation from our archives, we sit down with New York Times bestselling poet and author Maggie Smith (Good Bones, Dear Writer). Together, we explore what happens when you dismantle the dividing wall between art and everyday life, the discipline of staying in solitude rather than catering to an audience, and how learning to trust your own instincts becomes the ultimate safety net for a sustainable creative life.In This Episode:<ul><li><a href="https://maggiesmithpoet.com/" rel="nofollow">Maggie Smith</a></li><li><a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/dear-writer-pep-talks-practical-advice-for-the-creative-life-maggie-smith/7ccbdd5c0309eb7a?bkshp-astro=t&ean=9781982170844" rel="nofollow">“Dear Writer: Pep Talks &amp; Practical Advice for the Creative Life”</a></li><li><a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/my-thoughts-have-wings-maggie-smith/b7f510978475cce6?bkshp-astro=t&ean=9780063214583" rel="nofollow">“My Thoughts Have Wings”</a></li><li><a href="https://maggiesmith.substack.com/" rel="nofollow">&#34;For Dear Life&#34; - Maggie&#39;s Substack</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucinda_Williams" rel="nofollow">Lucinda Williams</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Didion:_The_Center_Will_Not_Hold" rel="nofollow">Joan Didion - The Center Will Not Hold documentary</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Goodall" rel="nofollow">Jane Goodall</a></li><li><a href="https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/89897/good-bones" rel="nofollow">“Good Bones”</a></li><li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYAk295MZZM" rel="nofollow">Jim Carrey commencement speech</a></li><li><a href="https://www.tarabrach.com/" rel="nofollow">Tara Brach</a></li><li><a href="https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/stanley-plumly" rel="nofollow">Stanley Plumly</a></li></ul> Go Deeper:<ul><li>Watch: View this entire conversation on<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours" rel="nofollow"> YouTube</a>.</li><li>Explore: Find similar conversations in <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours/playlists" rel="nofollow">these themed playlists</a>.</li><li>Connect: Join the conversation on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/theother22hours/?hl=en" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>.</li></ul>The Hosts:The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).<ul><li>More about <a href="http://www.shaferhaiss.com" rel="nofollow">Aaron’s work</a>.</li><li>More about <a href="http://www.michaelaanne.com" rel="nofollow">Michaela Anne’s work</a>.</li></ul>Credits: Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the <a href="https://thebluegrasssituation.com/podcasts/" rel="nofollow">Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network</a>.

What if the messiness of life isn’t an obstacle to making art, but the very material itself? In this re-issued conversation from our archives, we sit down with New York Times bestselling poet and author Maggie Smith (Good Bones, Dear Writer). Together, we explore what happens when you dismantle the dividing wall between art and everyday life, the discipline of staying in solitude rather than catering to an audience, and how learning to trust your own instincts becomes the ultimate safety net for a sustainable creative life.

Maggie Smith on self trust, moving beyond scarcity, and name-brand cereal.

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/8/19/2/13727dbe-71fe-42a9-9a83-511a94bde3eb_to_163_rodney_crowell_rerun_16_final.mp3

With two Grammy Awards, 15 number-one singles, and a songwriting catalog recorded by legends like Emmylou Harris, Bob Seger, and Waylon Jennings, Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame member Rodney Crowell stands as one of Americana&#39;s most enduring icons. Yet, after 50 years in Nashville, Rodney’s relationship to his craft is grounded not in recognition, but in the quiet, daily act of showing up.In this conversation from 2023, Rodney reflects on the early years of roaming Nashville alongside Guy Clark and Townes Van Zandt to evolving past the need for applause, the spiritual discipline of 7-day vision quests, and why a song can take 40 years to finally tell you what it wants to be.In This Episode:<ul><li><a href="https://rodneycrowell.com/" rel="nofollow">Rodney Crowell</a></li><li><a href="https://www.jeddhughes.com/" rel="nofollow">Jedd Hughes</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marty_Stuart" rel="nofollow">Marty Stuart</a></li><li><a href="https://64parishes.org/entry/j-d-millers-recording-studios" rel="nofollow">JD Miller&#39;s Recording Studio</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wilburn_Brothers" rel="nofollow">Wilburn Brothers</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmylou_Harris" rel="nofollow">Emmylou Harris</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Clark" rel="nofollow">Guy Clark</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickey_Newbury" rel="nofollow">Mickey Newbury</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Seger" rel="nofollow">Bob Seger</a></li></ul> Go Deeper:<ul><li>Watch: View this entire conversation on<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours" rel="nofollow"> YouTube</a>.</li><li>Explore: Find similar conversations in <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours/playlists" rel="nofollow">these themed playlists</a>.</li><li>Connect: Join the conversation on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/theother22hours/?hl=en" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>.</li></ul> The Hosts:The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).<ul><li>More about <a href="http://www.shaferhaiss.com/" rel="nofollow">Aaron’s work</a>.</li><li>More about <a href="http://www.michaelaanne.com/" rel="nofollow">Michaela Anne’s work</a>.</li></ul> Credits: Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the <a href="https://thebluegrasssituation.com/podcasts/" rel="nofollow">Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network</a>.

With two Grammy Awards, 15 number-one singles, and a songwriting catalog recorded by legends like Emmylou Harris, Bob Seger, and Waylon Jennings, Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame member Rodney Crowell stands as one of Americana&#39;s most enduring icons. Yet, after 50 years in Nashville, Rodney’s relationship to his craft is grounded not in recognition, but in the quiet, daily act of showing up.

In this conversation from 2023, Rodney reflects on the early years of roaming Nashville alongside Guy Clark and Townes Van Zandt to evolving past the need for applause, the spiritual discipline of 7-day vision quests, and why a song can take 40 years to finally tell you what it wants to be.

Rodney Crowell on letting go of recognition, 40-year songs, and talking to trees.

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/8/5/3/73951a18-6b2c-42f9-8d2f-304b7fa28220_to_162_mary_gauthier_rerun_27_final.mp3

GRAMMY-nominated songwriter and author Mary Gauthier, whose songs have been recorded by everyone from Tim McGraw and Blake Shelton to Boy George and Jimmy Buffett, joins us for a deeply resonant exploration of life, survival, and craft. Starting her songwriting journey at age 40 after a successful career as a chef and restaurant owner, Mary offers a deeply grounded perspective on what it means to build a long-haul artistic life.Originally aired in August 2023 as Episode 27, we are revisiting this favorite conversation from our archive to unpack her 33-year journey in recovery, the necessity of patience in art and persistence in business, and how songwriting serves as a container for processing trauma and bridging human divides.In This Episode:<ul><li><a href="https://www.marygauthier.com/" rel="nofollow">Mary Gauthier</a></li><li><a href="https://songwritingwithsoldiers.org/" rel="nofollow">Songwriting With Soldiers </a></li><li>&#39;<a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/saved-by-a-song-the-art-and-healing-power-of-songwriting-mary-gauthier/357a6b0de6339853?bkshp-astro=t&ean=9781250312266" rel="nofollow">Saved by a Song: The Art and Healing Power of Songwriting&#39;</a></li><li><a href="https://www.theother22hours.com/archive" rel="nofollow">Ep 152 - Matraca Berg</a></li><li><a href="https://www.theother22hours.com/archive" rel="nofollow">Ep 43 - Gretchen Peters</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_Nielsen_Chapman" rel="nofollow">Beth Nielsen Chapman</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liz_Rose" rel="nofollow">Liz Rose</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patty_Griffin" rel="nofollow">Patty Griffin</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neko_Case" rel="nofollow">Neko Case</a></li></ul> Go Deeper:<ul><li>Watch: View this entire conversation on<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours" rel="nofollow"> YouTube</a>.</li><li>Explore: Find similar conversations in <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours/playlists" rel="nofollow">these themed playlists</a>.</li><li>Connect: Join the conversation on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/theother22hours/?hl=en" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>.</li></ul>The Hosts:The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).<ul><li>More about <a href="http://www.shaferhaiss.com" rel="nofollow">Aaron’s work</a>.</li><li>More about <a href="http://www.michaelaanne.com" rel="nofollow">Michaela Anne’s work</a>.</li></ul>Credits: Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the <a href="https://thebluegrasssituation.com/podcasts/" rel="nofollow">Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network</a>.

Grammy-nominated songwriter and author Mary Gauthier, whose songs have been recorded by everyone from Tim McGraw and Blake Shelton to Boy George and Jimmy Buffett, joins us for a deeply resonant exploration of life, survival, and craft. Starting her songwriting journey at age 40 after a successful career as a chef and restaurant owner, Mary offers a deeply grounded perspective on what it means to build a long-haul artistic life. 

Originally aired in August 2023 as Episode 27, we are revisiting this favorite conversation from our archive to unpack her 33-year journey in recovery, the necessity of patience in art and persistence in business, and how songwriting serves as a container for processing trauma and bridging human divides.

Mary Gauthier on the business mindset of an artist, art as recovery, and owning a clam shack.

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/7/28/2/b74f2e75-440b-4c7d-b29c-b1027b0226e2_to_161_ruby_amanfu_rerun_62_final.mp3

This week, we dive into our archives for this special reissue of our conversation with GRAMMY-nominated singer-songwriter, producer, activist, and chef Ruby Amanfu. Known for her profound collaborations with H.E.R., Brandi Carlile, Alicia Keys, and Beyoncé, Ruby has navigated the highest peaks of the music industry while fiercely protecting her inner peace. In this episode, we explore the structural collisions that force us to speak our truth, the reality of reclaiming your identity outside of financial validation, and what happens when we finally release our death grip on how we thought our lives would look.In This Episode:<ul><li><a href="https://www.rubyamanfu.com/" rel="nofollow">Ruby Amanfu</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_%26_Ruby" rel="nofollow">Sam and Ruby</a></li><li><a href="https://porterscall.com/" rel="nofollow">Porter’s Call</a></li><li><a href="https://www.strategichospitality.com/andylittle" rel="nofollow">Andy Little</a></li><li><a href="https://www.musicares.org/" rel="nofollow">MusiCares</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Ann_Womack" rel="nofollow">Lee Ann Womack</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Nelson" rel="nofollow">Willie Nelson</a></li><li><a href="https://www.npr.org/2023/03/26/1166089475/nashville-love-rising-concert" rel="nofollow">Love Rising Concert</a></li></ul> Go Deeper:<ul><li>Watch: View this entire conversation on<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours" rel="nofollow"> YouTube</a>.</li><li>Explore: Find similar conversations in <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours/playlists" rel="nofollow">these themed playlists</a>.</li><li>Connect: Join the conversation on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/theother22hours/?hl=en" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>.</li></ul>The Hosts:The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).<ul><li>More about <a href="http://www.shaferhaiss.com" rel="nofollow">Aaron’s work</a>.</li><li>More about <a href="http://www.michaelaanne.com" rel="nofollow">Michaela Anne’s work</a>.</li></ul>Credits: Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the <a href="https://thebluegrasssituation.com/podcasts/" rel="nofollow">Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network</a>.

This week, we dive into our archives for this special reissue of our conversation with Grammy-nominated singer-songwriter, producer, activist, and chef Ruby Amanfu. Known for her profound collaborations with H.E.R., Brandi Carlile, Alicia Keys, and Beyoncé, Ruby has navigated the highest peaks of the music industry while fiercely protecting her inner peace. In this episode, we explore the structural collisions that force us to speak our truth, the reality of reclaiming your identity outside of financial validation, and what happens when we finally release our death grip on how we thought our lives would look.



Ruby Amanfu on guarding your creative energy force field, the illusion of major-label financials, and cooking dinner for Willie Nelson.

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/7/22/3/fb55a9e8-486d-4c4e-a1bb-3791c988bd3b_to_160_yancey_strickler_rerun_126_final.mp3

What happens when creative people stop looking for a seat at the table and build a table of their own? For generations society has treated an artist&#39;s life as an economic sideline, a romanticized piecemeal struggle. Today, we are witnessing a structural revolution. With Colorado recently passing the nation&#39;s first Artist Corporation legislation (the Colorado Artist Company Act) in June 2026, we are reissuing our definitive conversation with the architect of that very movement, Yancey Strickler.As the co-founder of Kickstarter, Metalabel, and the Artist Corporations Foundation, Yancey has dedicated his life to equipping creators with the structural tools to act as real entrepreneurs. In this expansive conversation, we trace the line between blue-collar artistry and private equity, explore why the industry trades meaning for convenience, and look closely at how interdependent networks can finally break the cycle of artistic exploitation.In This Episode:<ul><li><a href="https://www.ystrickler.com/" rel="nofollow">Yancey Strickler</a></li><li><a href="https://www.artistcorporations.com/" rel="nofollow">A-Corps</a></li><li><a href="https://www.bakerdonelson.com/colorados-artist-company-act-a-new-entity-structure-for-creative-ventures-and-a-novel-investment-framework-for-the-entertainment-economy" rel="nofollow">Colorado Legislation, June 2026</a></li><li><a href="https://www.metalabel.com/?srsltid=AfmBOopCWWkQ0vKHNUzEUIQ4aMdgWOFQvkyl71pj7ul3OTcAgzWDBlIV" rel="nofollow">MetaLabel</a></li><li><a href="https://thecreativeindependent.com/" rel="nofollow">The Creative Independent</a></li><li><a href="https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/music/music-news/sony-music-publishing-buys-hipgnosis-songs-group-1236259943/" rel="nofollow">Hipgnosis</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_(band)" rel="nofollow">Nirvana</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rural_Alberta_Advantage" rel="nofollow">The Royal Alberta Advantage</a></li><li><a href="http://www.theother22hours.com/archive" rel="nofollow">Ep 68 - Evan Honer</a></li><li><a href="https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405676/" rel="nofollow">“All The King’s Men”</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgil_Abloh" rel="nofollow">Virgil Abloh</a></li><li><a href="https://bentoism.org/" rel="nofollow">Bentoism</a></li><li><a href="https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/Y8rEA4e4DxafmeAbW/the-inner-ring-by-c-s-lewis" rel="nofollow">CS Lewis - “The Inner Ring”</a></li></ul> Go Deeper:<ul><li>Watch: View this entire conversation on<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours" rel="nofollow"> YouTube</a>.</li><li>Explore: Find similar conversations in <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours/playlists" rel="nofollow">these themed playlists</a>.</li><li>Connect: Join the conversation on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/theother22hours/?hl=en" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>.</li></ul>The Hosts:The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).<ul><li>More about <a href="http://www.shaferhaiss.com" rel="nofollow">Aaron’s work</a>.</li><li>More about <a href="http://www.michaelaanne.com" rel="nofollow">Michaela Anne’s work</a>.</li></ul>Credits: Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the <a href="https://thebluegrasssituation.com/podcasts/" rel="nofollow">Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network</a>.

What happens when creative people stop looking for a seat at the table and build a table of their own? For generations, society has treated the artist&#39;s life as an economic sideline, a romanticized, piecemeal struggle. Today, we are witnessing a structural revolution. With Colorado recently passing the nation&#39;s first Artist Corporation legislation in June 2026, we are reissuing our definitive conversation with the architect of that very movement, Yancey Strickler.

As the co-founder of Kickstarter, Metalabel, and A-Corp, Yancey has dedicated his life to equipping creators with the structural tools to act as real entrepreneurs. In this expansive conversation, we trace the line between blue-collar artistry and private equity, explore why the industry trades meaning for convenience, and look closely at how interdependent networks can finally break the cycle of artistic exploitation.

Yancey Strickler on artist power, interdependent networks, and a zip file worth thousands.

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/7/13/3/31faf5a2-416d-422f-a7f1-e7dcd68e3fee_to_159_hrishikesh_hirway_final.mp3

We often treat our creative identities like lanes, fearing that branching out looks like simple dilettantism. This week, we explore the delicate balance of identity and creative output with singer-songwriter Hrishikesh Hirway, the brilliant mind behind hit podcasts The West Wing Weekly and Home Cooking, as well as the globally-acclaimed Netflix series and podcast &#39;Song Exploder,&#39; which features the likes of Paul McCartney, Billie Eilish, REM, and Lin-Manuel Miranda.Despite a decade of monumental success in the podcast and broadcast worlds, Hrishikesh found himself battling a quiet, profound depression born from leaving his primary identity as a singer-songwriter behind. He recently returned to music with his first album in 15 years and joins us for a beautifully tender conversation on breaking through a 10-year writer&#39;s block, navigating the vulnerability of cold-calling collaborators, and learning to sit comfortably within a &#34;queer divine dissatisfaction.&#34;In This Episode:<ul><li><a href="https://hrishikesh.co/" rel="nofollow">Hrishikesh Hirway</a></li><li><a href="https://songexploder.net/" rel="nofollow">Song Exploder (Podcast / Netflix Series) </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allison_Russell" rel="nofollow">Alison Russell </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Ronstadt" rel="nofollow">Linda Ronstadt </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_Heads" rel="nofollow">Talking Heads </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Band" rel="nofollow">The Band </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grateful_Dead" rel="nofollow">The Grateful Dead </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Dylan" rel="nofollow">Bob Dylan </a></li><li><a href="https://www.philipweinrobe.com/" rel="nofollow">Phil Weinrobe </a></li><li><a href="http://www.theother22hours.com/archives" rel="nofollow">Ep 117 - Maia Friedman</a></li><li><a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/how-to-write-one-song-jeff-tweedy/f2e284f4c604ae61?ean=9780593183526" rel="nofollow">Jeff Tweedy - How to Write One Song (Book)</a> </li><li><a href="https://carljungdepthpsychologysite.blog/" rel="nofollow">Carl Jung / Depth Psychology </a></li><li><a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-west-wing-weekly/id1093364587" rel="nofollow">The West Wing Weekly (Podcast) </a></li><li><a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/home-cooking/id1503149669" rel="nofollow">Home Cooking (Podcast) </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samin_Nosrat" rel="nofollow">Samin Nosrat </a></li><li><a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/salt-fat-acid-heat-mastering-the-elements-of-good-cooking-samin-nosrat/688dffb91cf9000a?ean=9781476753836" rel="nofollow">Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat (Book) </a></li><li><a href="https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0539651/" rel="nofollow">Josh Malina </a></li><li><a href="https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005049/" rel="nofollow">Allison Janney </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Owen_Youngs" rel="nofollow">Jenny Owen Youngs </a></li><li><a href="https://www.yeproc.com/" rel="nofollow">Yep Roc Records </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mark_Nelson" rel="nofollow">John Mark Nelson </a></li><li><a href="https://www.southerngrooves.com/about-matt" rel="nofollow">Matt Ross Spang (Memphis TED Talk) </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnes_de_Mille" rel="nofollow">Agnes de Mille </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Graham" rel="nofollow">Martha Graham</a></li></ul> Go Deeper:<ul><li>Watch: View this entire conversation on<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours" rel="nofollow"> YouTube</a>.</li><li>Explore: Find similar conversations in <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours/playlists" rel="nofollow">these themed playlists</a>.</li><li>Connect: Join the conversation on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/theother22hours/?hl=en" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>.</li></ul> The Hosts:The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).<ul><li>More about <a href="http://www.shaferhaiss.com" rel="nofollow">Aaron’s work</a>.</li><li>More about <a href="http://www.michaelaanne.com" rel="nofollow">Michaela Anne’s work</a>.</li></ul>﻿Credits: Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the <a href="https://thebluegrasssituation.com/podcasts/" rel="nofollow">Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network</a>.

We often treat our creative identities like lanes, fearing that branching out looks like simple dilettantism. This week, we explore the delicate balance of identity and creative output with singer-songwriter Hrishikesh Hirway, the brilliant mind behind hit podcasts The West Wing Weekly and Home Cooking, as well as the globally-acclaimed Netflix series and podcast &#39;Song Exploder,&#39; which features the likes of Paul McCartney, Billie Eilish, REM, and Lin-Manuel Miranda.

Despite a decade of monumental success in the podcast and broadcast worlds, Hrishikesh found himself battling a quiet, profound depression born from leaving his primary identity as a singer-songwriter behind. He recently returned to music with his first album in 15 years and joins us for a beautifully tender conversation on breaking through a 10-year writer&#39;s block, navigating the vulnerability of cold-calling collaborators, and learning to sit comfortably within a &#34;queer divine dissatisfaction.&#34;

Hrishikesh Hirway on creative wholeness, strategic dilettantism, and surrendering to sandpaper.

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/7/7/0/83a24588-f239-46f6-9dc2-f9b47d70c632_to_158_amy_grant_final.mp3

What does it mean to inhabit a creative life when that container itself changes? We sit down with GRAMMY-nominated, multi-platinum crossover superstar Amy Grant. Having shaped the landscape of pop and contemporary Christian music for over four decades, Grant found herself navigating an unexpected wilderness following a series of medical setbacks – including a traumatic bike accident – and a rewritten relationship with her own processing speed. In this soulful, luminous conversation, she explores the deliberate art of slowing down, the creative sanctuary of &#34;Craftopia,&#34; and why she now views aging not as a loss of identity, but as a continual invitation to let go.In This Episode:<ul><li><a href="https://www.amygrant.com/" rel="nofollow">Amy Grant</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Gill" rel="nofollow">Vince Gill</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagles_(band)" rel="nofollow">Eagles</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_McAnally" rel="nofollow">Mac McAnally</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Buffett" rel="nofollow">Jimmy Buffett</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral_Reefer_Band" rel="nofollow">Coral Reefer Band</a></li><li><a href="https://www.barefootrepublic.org/" rel="nofollow">Barefoot Republic</a></li><li><a href="https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510379/wild-card-with-rachel-martin" rel="nofollow">NPR’s Wildcard podcast</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Charles" rel="nofollow">Ray Charles</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicely_Tyson" rel="nofollow">Cicely Tyson</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roots_(1977_miniseries)" rel="nofollow">Roots (miniseries)</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Graham" rel="nofollow">Franklin Graham</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Frankl" rel="nofollow">Viktor Frankl</a></li><li><a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/man-s-search-for-meaning-viktor-e-frankl/f040ee34581bdc92?ean=9780807014271" rel="nofollow">Man&#39;s Search for Meaning</a></li><li><a href="https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0588385/" rel="nofollow">Gene Miller</a></li><li><a href="https://www.vumc.org/global-health/person/james-netterville-md" rel="nofollow">Dr. Jim Netterville</a></li><li><a href="https://www.suleikajaouad.com/" rel="nofollow">Suleika Jaouad</a></li></ul> Go Deeper:<ul><li>Watch: View this entire conversation on<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours" rel="nofollow"> YouTube</a>.</li><li>Explore: Find similar conversations in <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours/playlists" rel="nofollow">these themed playlists</a>.</li><li>Connect: Join the conversation on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/theother22hours/?hl=en" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>.</li></ul> The Hosts:The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).<ul><li>More about <a href="http://www.shaferhaiss.com" rel="nofollow">Aaron’s work</a>.</li><li>More about <a href="http://www.michaelaanne.com" rel="nofollow">Michaela Anne’s work</a>.</li></ul>﻿Credits: Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the <a href="https://thebluegrasssituation.com/podcasts/" rel="nofollow">Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network</a>.

What does it mean to inhabit a creative life when the container itself changes? We sit down with Grammy-nominated, multi-platinum crossover superstar Amy Grant. Having shaped the landscape of pop and contemporary Christian music for over four decades, Grant found herself navigating an unexpected wilderness following a series of medical setbacks, including a traumatic bike accident, and a rewritten relationship with her own processing speed. In this soulful, luminous conversation, she explores the deliberate art of slowing down, the creative sanctuary of &#34;Craftopia,&#34; and why she now views aging not as a loss of identity, but as a continual invitation to let go.

Amy Grant on unexpected healing, the invitation of aging, and craftopia.

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/7/2/0/de69fd3f-91d2-4262-930b-e0c2ec06f731_to_157_james_gardin_final.mp3

How do you build a sustainable life around your art when the traditional definitions of success feel increasingly narrow? In this conversation, we sit down with musician, songwriter, and educator James Gardin. While his joyous, infectious music has found a global audience through major sync campaigns for brands like Apple, Tommy Hilfiger, and Saks Fifth Avenue, James’s core creative philosophy is anchored in something much more grounded: community, education, and the refusal to second-guess the spark. Together, we explore the nuts-and-bolts realities of the licensing world, the absolute humility required to teach songwriting to eight year olds, and how letting go of the industry&#39;s arbitrary rules allows us to finally blaze our own paths.In This Episode:<ul><li><a href="https://www.supercleanjames.com/" rel="nofollow">James Gardin </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lizzo" rel="nofollow">Lizzo </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshmello" rel="nofollow">Marshmello </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_Dilla" rel="nofollow">J Dilla</a> </li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_(rapper)" rel="nofollow">Proof </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elzhi" rel="nofollow">Elzhi </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slum_Village" rel="nofollow">Slum Village </a></li><li><a href="http://www.lizagarza.com/about-1" rel="nofollow">Liza Garza </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Def_Poetry_Jam" rel="nofollow">Def Poetry Jam </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SZA" rel="nofollow">SZA </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chance_the_Rapper" rel="nofollow">Chance the Rapper </a></li><li><a href="https://www.marmosetmusic.com/" rel="nofollow">Marmoset </a></li><li><a href="https://www.musicbed.com/" rel="nofollow">Musicbed </a></li><li><a href="https://www.ispot.tv/" rel="nofollow">iSpot.tv </a></li><li><a href="https://www.tunefind.com/" rel="nofollow">TuneFind </a></li><li><a href="https://www.westernstatescenter.org/" rel="nofollow">Western States Center</a> </li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_K._Ward" rel="nofollow">Eric Ward </a></li><li><a href="https://www.alloftheabovehiphop.org/" rel="nofollow">All of the Above Hip Hop Academy </a></li><li><a href="https://trailsendcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">Trails End Camp </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooklyn_Philharmonic" rel="nofollow">Brooklyn Philharmonic </a></li><li><a href="https://www.imdb.com/title/tt31193180/" rel="nofollow">Sinners </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Coogler" rel="nofollow">Ryan Coogler</a></li></ul> Go Deeper:<ul><li>Watch: View this entire conversation on<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours" rel="nofollow"> YouTube</a>.</li><li>Explore: Find similar conversations in <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours/playlists" rel="nofollow">these themed playlists</a>.</li><li>Connect: Join the conversation on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/theother22hours/?hl=en" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>.</li></ul> The Hosts:The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).<ul><li>More about <a href="http://www.shaferhaiss.com" rel="nofollow">Aaron’s work</a>.</li><li>More about <a href="http://www.michaelaanne.com" rel="nofollow">Michaela Anne’s work</a>.</li></ul> Credits: Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the <a href="https://thebluegrasssituation.com/podcasts/" rel="nofollow">Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network</a>.

How do you build a sustainable life around your art when the traditional definitions of success feel increasingly narrow? In this conversation, we sit down with musician, songwriter, and educator James Gardin. While his joyous, infectious music has found a global audience through major sync campaigns for brands like Apple, Puma, Tommy Hilfiger, and Saks Fifth Avenue, James’s core creative philosophy is anchored in something much more grounded: community, education, and the refusal to second-guess the spark. Together, we explore the nuts-and-bolts realities of the licensing world, the absolute humility required to teach songwriting to eight-year-olds, and how letting go of the industry&#39;s arbitrary rules allows us to finally blaze our own paths.

James Gardin on deconstructing the sync world, overcoming over-analysis, and the male affordable Lizzo.

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/6/24/3/3f5f3144-7031-455f-b7f5-e2ba35183bed_to_156_lukas_nelson_final.mp3

It is easy to look at a lifetime spent traveling on a tour bus in a famous family and assume the creative path was completely clear. We sit down with GRAMMY-winning singer-songwriter and guitar player Lukas Nelson (&#39;A Star Is Born,&#39; Promise of the Real, Neil Young) for an incredibly honest conversation about moving past the shadow of his father Willie Nelson&#39;s towering legacy, and detangling his identity from the cliched drug-induced creative culture. We explore the distinct clarity that arrives with sobriety, the physiological realities of keeping your body moving on the road, and how treating musical discipline like Olympic training allowed him to fully claim his own voice. It’s a masterclass in boundary setting, honoring the natural muse, and discovering that a long-term commitment to your health and your relationships is the ultimate engine for creative longevity.In This Episode:<ul><li><a href="https://lukasnelson.com/?srsltid=AfmBOoqNX1i4crZ5n6K9Erd4AInExEOIFesnxtjPlJP8CQhtKRU9d2mC" rel="nofollow">Lukas Nelson</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lukas_Nelson_%26_Promise_of_the_Real" rel="nofollow">Promise of the Real </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Nelson" rel="nofollow">Willie Nelson </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merle_Haggard" rel="nofollow">Merle Haggard </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Gaga" rel="nofollow">Lady Gaga </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lukas_Nelson_%26_Promise_of_the_Real" rel="nofollow">Promise of the Real </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Young" rel="nofollow">Neil Young </a></li><li><a href="https://www.austintheatre.org/" rel="nofollow">Paramount Theater </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Red_Clay_Strays" rel="nofollow">Red Clay Strays </a></li><li><a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/outlive-the-science-and-art-of-longevity-bill-gifford/8471d6ef5aae64a2?ean=9780593236598&next=t" rel="nofollow">Outlive by Dr. Peter Attia </a></li><li><a href="https://drinkwillies.com/?srsltid=AfmBOoqJO3XKnMQr1h_kY0RvFFq7ISjSldQTAEfreHe_wHFyfhMSQnIn" rel="nofollow">Willie&#39;s Remedy </a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Things_Must_Pass" rel="nofollow">All Things Must Pass</a></li></ul> Go Deeper:<ul><li>Watch: View this entire conversation on<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours" rel="nofollow"> YouTube</a>.</li><li>Explore: Find similar conversations in <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours/playlists" rel="nofollow">these themed playlists</a>.</li><li>Connect: Join the conversation on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/theother22hours/?hl=en" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>.</li></ul>The Hosts:The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).<ul><li>More about <a href="http://www.shaferhaiss.com" rel="nofollow">Aaron’s work</a>.</li><li>More about <a href="http://www.michaelaanne.com" rel="nofollow">Michaela Anne’s work</a>.</li></ul>Credits: Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the <a href="https://thebluegrasssituation.com/podcasts/" rel="nofollow">Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network</a>.

It is easy to look at a lifetime spent traveling on a tour bus, in a famous family, and assume the creative path was completely clear. We sit down with Grammy-winning singer-songwriter and guitar player Lukas Nelson (A Star Is Born, Promise of the Real, Neil Young) for an incredibly honest conversation about moving past the shadow of his father Willie Nelson&#39;s towering legacy, and detangling his identity from the cliched drug-induced creative culture. We explore the distinct clarity that arrives with sobriety, the physiological realities of keeping your body moving on the road, and how treating musical discipline like Olympic training allowed him to fully claim his own voice. It’s a masterclass in boundary setting, honoring the natural muse, and discovering that a long-term commitment to your health and your relationships is the ultimate engine for creative longevity.

Lukas Nelson on shedding expectations, the antidote to egos, and training like an Olympian.

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/6/16/4/84ac4ebc-2f0e-4420-b470-9037b694b9c9_to_155_judy_collins_final.mp3

&#34;We write to find out who we are.&#34; For over six decades, Judy Collins has been a pillar of American music: from GRAMMY awards, platinum records, and Oscar nominations, to writing 8+ books and landing her first No. 1 album at 80 years old.But behind the staggering accolades is an artist who still treats her craft as a sacred, daily blue-collar job. In this conversation, we explore the quiet discipline of her daily routines, the sanctuary of her 48 years of sobriety, and what she calls the &#34;secret channels of songs.&#34; Judy shares her philosophy on processing grief through poetry, the necessity of maintaining community in a solitary profession, and turning off the noise to protect the soul.In This Episode:<ul><li><a href="http://www.judycollins.com/" rel="nofollow">Judy Collins</a></li><li><a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-catcher-in-the-rye-j-d-salinger/23b672c993f96a10?ean=9780316769488&next=t" rel="nofollow">“Catcher in the Rye”</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._D._Salinger" rel="nofollow">J.D. Salinger</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonia_Brico" rel="nofollow">Antonia Brico</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Ruffalo" rel="nofollow">Mark Ruffalo</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotlight_(film)" rel="nofollow">“Spotlight”</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemangioma" rel="nofollow">Hemangioma</a></li><li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmbwU3J-2kk" rel="nofollow">“The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll” - Bob Dylan</a></li><li><a href="http://www.theother22hours.com/archive" rel="nofollow">Ep 100 - Rosanne Cash</a></li><li><a href="http://www.theother22hours.com/archive" rel="nofollow">Ep 16 - Rodney Crowell</a></li><li><a href="https://bluegrass.com/telluride" rel="nofollow">Telluride Bluegrass Festival</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo_Stafford" rel="nofollow">Jo Stafford</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Allen_(song)" rel="nofollow">Barbara Allen</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Kooper" rel="nofollow">Al Kooper</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Grossman" rel="nofollow">Al Grossman</a></li></ul> Go Deeper:<ul><li>Watch: View this entire conversation on<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours" rel="nofollow"> YouTube</a>.</li><li>Explore: Find similar conversations in <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours/playlists" rel="nofollow">these themed playlists</a>.</li><li>Connect: Join the conversation on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/theother22hours/?hl=en" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>.</li></ul>The Hosts:The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).<ul><li>More about <a href="http://www.shaferhaiss.com" rel="nofollow">Aaron’s work</a>.</li><li>More about <a href="http://www.michaelaanne.com" rel="nofollow">Michaela Anne’s work</a>.</li></ul>Credits: Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the <a href="https://thebluegrasssituation.com/podcasts/" rel="nofollow">Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network</a>.

&#34;We write to find out who we are.&#34; For over six decades, Judy Collins has been a pillar of American music: from GRAMMY awards, platinum records and Oscar nominations, to writing 8+ books, and landing her first number 1 album at 80 years old.

But behind the staggering accolades is an artist who still treats her craft as a daily, sacred blue-collar job. In this conversation, we explore the quiet discipline of her daily routines, the sanctuary of her 48 years of sobriety, and what she calls the &#34;secret channels of songs&#34;. Judy shares her philosophy on processing grief through poetry, the necessity of maintaining community in a solitary profession, and turning off the noise to protect the soul.

Judy Collins on collective dreams, keeping the channel clear, and why artist's don't retire.

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/6/10/4/62830d9c-9bce-4bf9-8f49-03bcb69769c2_to_154_the_clements__final.mp3

What does it mean to treat music not as a commodity, but as a multi-generational way of life? We sit down with father-daughter side musicians Cranston and Annie Clements. Cranston, a cornerstone of New Orleans music history, has played guitar with royalty like Dr. John, Allen Toussaint, and Irma Thomas. His daughter Annie is a bass player for massive acts including Sugarland, Maren Morris, and Hootie &amp; the Blowfish.The duo brings a unique perspective on lineage, structural hurdles, and the profound beauty of side musicians&#39; journeys. Annie shares her vital advocacy work supporting motherhood in the music industry, including working to correct the stark lack of childcare infrastructure in touring. Meanwhile, Cranston details his wild roots in the 1960s counterculture and how a single performance could dismantle a lifetime of prejudice. It is a study on what it truly means to be a &#34;joy facilitator.&#34;In This Episode:<ul><li><a href="https://annieclements.com/" rel="nofollow">Annie Clements</a></li><li><a href="https://cransmusic.com/" rel="nofollow">Cranston Clements</a></li><li><a href="http://www.theother22hours.com/archive" rel="nofollow">Ep 151 - Rob Moose</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympia_Brass_Band" rel="nofollow">Dejan’s Olympia Brass Band</a></li><li><a href="https://tuesdaynightrodeoclub.com/" rel="nofollow">Tuesday Night Rodeo Club</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maren_Morris" rel="nofollow">Maren Morris</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doja_Cat" rel="nofollow">Doja Cat</a></li><li><a href="https://joyoladokun.com/" rel="nofollow">Joy Oladokun</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Bunny" rel="nofollow">Bad Bunny</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mot%C3%B6rhead" rel="nofollow">Motorhead</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._John" rel="nofollow">Dr John</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boz_Scaggs" rel="nofollow">Boz Scaggs</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Muldaur" rel="nofollow">Maria Muldaur</a></li><li><a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/a-uterus-is-a-feature-not-a-bug-the-working-woman-s-guide-to-overthrowing-the-patriarchy-sarah-lacy/e0bdf44873ba87be?ean=9781538456309&next=t" rel="nofollow">“A Uterus is a Feature Not a Bug” - Sarah Lacy</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucinda_Williams" rel="nofollow">Lucinda Williams</a></li><li><a href="https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angine_de_poitrine_(groupe)" rel="nofollow">Angine de Poitrine</a></li></ul> Go Deeper:<ul><li>Watch: View this entire conversation on<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours" rel="nofollow"> YouTube</a>.</li><li>Explore: Find similar conversations in <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours/playlists" rel="nofollow">these themed playlists</a>.</li><li>Connect: Join the conversation on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/theother22hours/?hl=en" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>.</li></ul>The Hosts:The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).<ul><li>More about <a href="http://www.shaferhaiss.com" rel="nofollow">Aaron’s work</a>.</li><li>More about <a href="http://www.michaelaanne.com" rel="nofollow">Michaela Anne’s work</a>.</li></ul>Credits: Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the <a href="https://thebluegrasssituation.com/podcasts/" rel="nofollow">Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network</a>.

What does it mean to treat music not as a commodity, but as a multi-generational way of life? We sit down with father-daughter side musicians Cranston and Annie Clements. Cranston, a cornerstone of New Orleans music history, has played guitar with royalty like Dr. John, Allen Toussaint, and Irma Thomas. His daughter Annie is the bass player for for massive acts including Sugarland, Maren Morris, and Hootie &amp; the Blowfish.

The duo brings a unique perspective on the lineage, structural hurdles, and profound beauty of the side musician&#39;s journey. Annie shares her vital advocacy work supporting motherhood in the music industry, including the stark lack of childcare infrastructure in the touring industry. Meanwhile, Cranston details his wild roots in the 1960s counterculture and how a single performance could dismantle a lifetime of prejudice. It is a study on what it truly means to be a &#34;joy facilitator.&#34;

Annie & Cranston Clements on musical lineage, tour-life advocacy, and 150 hits of acid.

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/6/1/3/f4a8e77f-afc0-4d36-af9e-6a8c81c73061_to_153_heather_mae_final.mp3

We often look at an artist&#39;s career through the lens of industry accolades: the tours, the streaming numbers, the awards. But what happens when you intentionally dismantle your creative ego to build something focused entirely on collective liberation? Heather Mae is an award-winning independent artist, the founder of Singing Resistance Nashville, and a prominent voice in organized musical activism. Following a viral arrest at the Tennessee Capitol while protesting anti-trans legislation, Heather sits down with us to discuss the profound impacts of communal singing, navigating trauma as a neurodivergent and queer creator, and how to balance radical empathy without completely burning out. It’s an expansive, deeply human conversation about moving past the modern traps of artistic productivity to discover what it truly means to be of service.In This Episode:<ul><li><a href="https://www.heathermae.net/" rel="nofollow">Heather Mae</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ysaye_M._Barnwell" rel="nofollow">Ysaye Barnwell</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweet_Honey_in_the_Rock" rel="nofollow">Sweet Honey in the Rock</a></li><li><a href="https://bluegrass.com/song-school" rel="nofollow">The Song School (Planet Bluegrass)</a></li><li><a href="https://now.org/" rel="nofollow">National Organization for Women</a></li><li><a href="https://www.instagram.com/singingresistancenashville/" rel="nofollow">Singing Resistance Nashville</a></li><li><a href="https://www.tnep.org/" rel="nofollow">Tennessee Equality Project</a></li><li><a href="http://www.melodywalker.com/" rel="nofollow">Melody Walker</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Jones_(Tennessee_politician)" rel="nofollow">Justin Jones</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Johnson_(politician)" rel="nofollow">Gloria Johnson</a></li><li><a href="https://www.wmot.org/" rel="nofollow">WMOT</a></li><li><a href="https://michaelaanne.bandcamp.com/track/just-more-love" rel="nofollow">&#34;Just More Love&#34;</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Alex_Pretti" rel="nofollow">Alex Pretti</a></li><li><a href="https://www.folk.org/" rel="nofollow">Folk Alliance</a></li><li><a href="https://www.crysmatthews.com/" rel="nofollow">Chris Matthews</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etta_James" rel="nofollow">Etta James</a></li><li><a href="https://musicares.org/" rel="nofollow">MusiCares</a></li><li><a href="http://www.musichealthalliance.com/" rel="nofollow">Music Health Alliance</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung" rel="nofollow">Carl Jung</a></li><li><a href="http://www.theother22hours.com/archive" rel="nofollow">Ep 97 - Fancy Hagood</a></li></ul> Go Deeper:<ul><li>Watch: View this entire conversation on<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours" rel="nofollow"> YouTube</a>.</li><li>Explore: Find similar conversations in <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours/playlists" rel="nofollow">these themed playlists</a>.</li><li>Connect: Join the conversation on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/theother22hours/?hl=en" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>.</li></ul>The Hosts:The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).<ul><li>More about <a href="http://www.shaferhaiss.com" rel="nofollow">Aaron’s work</a>.</li><li>More about <a href="http://www.michaelaanne.com" rel="nofollow">Michaela Anne’s work</a>.</li></ul>Credits: Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the <a href="https://thebluegrasssituation.com/podcasts/" rel="nofollow">Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network</a>.

We often look at an artist&#39;s career through the lens of industry accolades: the tours, the streaming numbers, the awards. But what happens when you intentionally dismantle your creative ego to build something focused entirely on collective liberation? Heather Mae is an award-winning independent artist, the founder of Singing Resistance Nashville, and a prominent voice in organized musical activism. Following a viral arrest at the Tennessee Capitol while protesting anti-trans legislation, Heather sits down with us to discuss the profound impacts of communal singing, navigating trauma as a neurodivergent and queer creator, and how to balance radical empathy without completely burning out. It’s an expansive, deeply human conversation about moving past the modern traps of artistic productivity to discover what it truly means to be of service.

Heather Mae on social justice songwriting, the hedonic treadmill, and hearing god during a massage.

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/5/27/4/1364e4ec-db80-41a9-98f5-928808f92ddb_to_152_matraca_berg_final.mp3

We often treat commercial success as the final destination of a creative life, but for legendary songwriter Matraca Berg, it was just the first act. She was the first woman to have five different country No. 1s in a single year and her songs have been recorded by everyone from Linda Ronstadt, Trisha Yearwood, and Deana Carter to the Chicks, Chris Stapleton, and Reba McEntire. Matraca’s catalog defines generations of American songwriting.We sit down the GRAMMY-nominated member of the Songwriting Hall of Fame to explore the realities of achieving massive success while battling paralyzing stage fright, the transition from the multi-platinum physical sales era of the 1990s to modern streaming, and how she keeps her creative tank full as the industry has changed around her. In a culture obsessed with youth and immediate output, Matraca offers a grounded, reassuring perspective on aging within an art form, artistic alignment, and learning to trust.In This Episode:<ul><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matraca_Berg" rel="nofollow">Matraca Berg</a></li><li><a href="http://www.theother22hours.com/archive" rel="nofollow">Ep 147 - Jeff Hanna</a></li><li><a href="https://musicrow.com/2021/11/veteran-session-singer-sudie-callaway-passes/" rel="nofollow">Sudie Calloway</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Tillis" rel="nofollow">Mel Tillis</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joni_Mitchell" rel="nofollow">Joni Mitchell</a></li><li><a href="https://bluebirdcafe.com/" rel="nofollow">Bluebird Cafe</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clint_Black" rel="nofollow">Clint Black</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanci_Griffith" rel="nofollow">Nanci Griffith</a></li><li><a href="http://www.theother22hours.com/archive" rel="nofollow">Ep 60 - Lori McKenna</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Braddock" rel="nofollow">Bobby Braddock</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlan_Howard" rel="nofollow">Harlan Howard</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashley_McBryde" rel="nofollow">Ashley McBryde</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Harrison" rel="nofollow">Gary Harrison</a></li><li><a href="http://www.theother22hours.com/archive" rel="nofollow">Ep 28 - The Wood Brothers</a></li><li><a href="https://www.zachberkman.com/" rel="nofollow">Zach Berkman</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_King" rel="nofollow">Tiger King</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Stapleton" rel="nofollow">Chris Stapleton</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ella_Langley" rel="nofollow">Ella Langley</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessi_Colter" rel="nofollow">Jessi Colter</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waylon_Jennings" rel="nofollow">Waylon Jennings</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maggie_Gyllenhaal" rel="nofollow">Maggie Gyllenhaal</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Sarsgaard" rel="nofollow">Peter Sarsgaard</a></li><li><a href="https://www.hillcountry.com/" rel="nofollow">Hill Country Barbecue</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Gyllenhaal" rel="nofollow">Jake Gyllenhaal</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnie_Pearl" rel="nofollow">Minnie Pearl</a></li></ul> Go Deeper:<ul><li>Watch: View this entire conversation on<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours" rel="nofollow"> YouTube</a>.</li><li>Explore: Find similar conversations in <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours/playlists" rel="nofollow">these themed playlists</a>.</li><li>Connect: Join the conversation on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/theother22hours/?hl=en" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>.</li></ul>The Hosts:The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).<ul><li>More about <a href="http://www.shaferhaiss.com" rel="nofollow">Aaron’s work</a>.</li><li>More about <a href="http://www.michaelaanne.com" rel="nofollow">Michaela Anne’s work</a>.</li></ul>Credits: Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the <a href="https://thebluegrasssituation.com/podcasts/" rel="nofollow">Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network</a>.

We often treat commercial success as the final destination of a creative life, but for legendary songwriter Matraca Berg, it was just the first act. She was the first woman to have five different country number-ones in a single year, and her songs have been recorded by everyone from Linda Ronstadt, Trisha Yearwood and Deana Carter, to The Chicks, Chris Stapleton, and Reba McEntire. Matraca’s catalog defines generations of American songwriting. 

We sit down the the GRAMMY-nominated member of the Songwriting Hall of Fame to explore the realities of achieving massive success while battling paralyzing stage fright, the transition from the multi-platinum physical sales era of the 1990s to modern streaming, and how she keeps her creative tank full as the industry has changed around her. In a culture obsessed with youth and immediate output, Matraca offers a grounded, reassuring perspective on aging within an art form, artistic alignment, and learning to trust.

Matraca Berg on the Nashville Hit Machine, streaming economics, and getting busted by bro country.

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/5/19/4/64b4256a-2743-4a1d-87f7-09c34a5cc027_to_151_rob_moose_final.mp3

Behind nearly every influential indie-rock and pop record of the last 15 years has been the brilliant mind and hand of string arranger and multi-instrumentalist Rob Moose. The three-time GRAMMY winner has contributed to thousands of records by the likes of Paul Simon, Taylor Swift, Phoebe Bridgers, Bon Iver, St. Vincent, Bruce Hornsby, and Mumford &amp; Sons. In this calming, deeply reflective conversation, Rob opens up about &#34;peaking&#34; in the live touring industry, the transition to a studio-centric life, and how fatherhood has introduced a powerful focus into his creative process. It is an exploration of legacy, creative boundaries, and why sustaining a 20-year career ultimately comes down to treating music not as an athletic feat, but as a deeply human relationship.In This Episode:<ul><li><a href="https://robmoose.com/" rel="nofollow">Rob Moose</a></li><li><a href="https://www.msmnyc.edu/" rel="nofollow">Manhattan School of Music</a></li><li><a href="https://www.columbia.edu/" rel="nofollow">Columbia University</a></li><li><a href="https://www.newschool.edu/jazz/" rel="nofollow">The New School</a></li><li><a href="https://www.interlochen.org/" rel="nofollow">Interlochen Arts Academy</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_(band)" rel="nofollow">Nirvana</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bon_Iver" rel="nofollow">Bon Iver</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_Night_Live" rel="nofollow">SNL</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Simon" rel="nofollow">Paul Simon</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madison_Square_Garden" rel="nofollow">Madison Square Garden</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowery_Ballroom" rel="nofollow">Bowery Ballroom</a></li><li><a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-artist-s-way-30th-anniversary-edition-julia-cameron/7f27745af1fe4ae4?ean=9780143129257&next=t" rel="nofollow">‘The Artist’s Way’ - Julia Cameron</a></li><li><a href="https://www.nonesuch.com/" rel="nofollow">Nonesuch Records</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_Kahane" rel="nofollow">Gabe Kahane</a></li></ul> Go Deeper:<ul><li>Watch: View this entire conversation on<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours" rel="nofollow"> YouTube</a>.</li><li>Explore: Find similar conversations in <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours/playlists" rel="nofollow">these themed playlists</a>.</li><li>Connect: Join the conversation on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/theother22hours/?hl=en" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>.</li></ul>The Hosts:The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).<ul><li>More about <a href="http://www.shaferhaiss.com" rel="nofollow">Aaron’s work</a>.</li><li>More about <a href="http://www.michaelaanne.com" rel="nofollow">Michaela Anne’s work</a>.</li></ul>Credits: Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the <a href="https://thebluegrasssituation.com/podcasts/" rel="nofollow">Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network</a>.

Behind nearly every influential indie rock and pop record of the last fifteen years is the brilliant mind and hand of string arranger, and multi-instrumentalist Rob Moose. The three time GRAMMY winner has contributed to thousands of records from the likes of Paul Simon, Taylor Swift, Phoebe Bridgers, Bon Iver, St Vincent, Bruce Hornsby and Mumford and Sons. In this calming, deeply reflective conversation, Rob opens up about &#34;peaking&#34; in the live touring industry, the transition to a studio-centric life, and how fatherhood has introduced a powerful focus into his creative process. It is an exploration of legacy, creative boundaries, and why sustaining a 20-year career ultimately comes down to treating music not as an athletic feat, but as a deeply human relationship.

Rob Moose on the feast-or-famine mindset, songs as love letters, and remaining child-like.

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/5/12/3/2f87ae96-990d-452e-b1be-0dd72d11903e_to_150_aaron_and_michaela_final.mp3

To celebrate our 150th episode, we try a bit of an experiment: interviewing ourselves, for the first time. After nearly two decades of partnership, we examine the evolution of the creative self. Michaela Anne – whose fifth record, &#39;These Are The Days,&#39; marks her first in over a 10 years for which she retains total ownership – discusses the &#34;massive shift of self&#34; required to walk away from industry gatekeepers. Aaron Shafer-Haiss, whose compositions have scored major network dramas like &#39;Station 19&#39; and &#39;The Good Doctor,&#39; reflects on the &#34;utilitarian creativity&#34; of a producer. It is a conversation about resilience, the &#34;growth seesaw&#34; of a creative marriage, and the realization that the dream is already happening.In This Episode:<ul><li><a href="http://www.michaelaanne.com" rel="nofollow">Michaela Anne</a></li><li><a href="http://www.shaferhaiss.com" rel="nofollow">Aaron Shafer-Haiss</a></li><li><a href="https://freedirt.ffm.to/these-are-the-days" rel="nofollow">‘These Are The Days’</a></li><li><a href="http://www.theother22hours.com/archive" rel="nofollow">Ep 109 Major Jackson</a></li><li><a href="https://www.nonesuch.com/" rel="nofollow">Nonesuch Records</a></li><li><a href="https://hardlystrictlybluegrass.com/" rel="nofollow">Hardly Strictly Bluegrass Festival</a></li><li><a href="https://www.bonnaroo.com/" rel="nofollow">Bonnaroo</a></li><li><a href="https://www.cayamo.com/" rel="nofollow">Cayamo</a></li><li><a href="https://mountainstage.org/" rel="nofollow">Mountain Stage</a></li><li><a href="https://bluegrass.com/folks" rel="nofollow">Folks Fest</a></li><li><a href="https://www.mtsu.edu/" rel="nofollow">Middle Tennessee State University</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owen_Biddle_(musician)" rel="nofollow">Owen Biddle</a></li><li><a href="https://www.google.com/search?gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqDwgAEAAYFBiHAhjjAhiABDIPCAAQABgUGIcCGOMCGIAEMgwIARAuGBQYhwIYgAQyBwgCEAAYgAQyCAgDEAAYFhgeMggIBBAAGBYYHjIICAUQABgWGB4yCAgGEAAYFhgeMggIBxAAGBYYHjIICAgQABgWGB4yCAgJEAAYFhge0gEINTk1NWowajmoAgawAgHxBagByZJqoRER&ie=UTF-8&oq=seth+taylor+guitar&q=seth+taylor+guitar&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS1022US1022&sourceid=chrome#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:4007f3f9,vid:Ucy7WZGKwZQ,st:0" rel="nofollow">Seth Taylor</a></li><li><a href="https://www.ethanballinger.com/" rel="nofollow">Ethan Ballinger</a></li><li><a href="http://www.kyshona.com/" rel="nofollow">Kyshona</a></li><li><a href="https://www.lyledivinsky.com/" rel="nofollow">Lyle Davinsky</a></li><li><a href="https://www.laurenbalthrop.com/" rel="nofollow">Lauren Balthrop</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_Malone" rel="nofollow">Post Malone</a></li></ul> Go Deeper:<ul><li>Watch: View this entire conversation on<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours" rel="nofollow"> YouTube</a>.</li><li>Explore: Find similar conversations in <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours/playlists" rel="nofollow">these themed playlists</a>.</li><li>Connect: Join the conversation on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/theother22hours/?hl=en" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>.</li></ul>The Hosts:The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).<ul><li>More about <a href="http://www.shaferhaiss.com" rel="nofollow">Aaron’s work</a>.</li><li>More about <a href="http://www.michaelaanne.com" rel="nofollow">Michaela Anne’s work</a>.</li></ul>Credits: Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the <a href="https://thebluegrasssituation.com/podcasts/" rel="nofollow">Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network</a>.

To celebrate our 150th episode, we try a bit of an experiment: interviewing ourselves, for the first time. After nearly two decades of partnership, we examine the evolution of the creative self. Michaela Anne, whose fifth record These Are The Days marks the first record that she retains total ownership of in over a decade, discusses the &#34;massive shift of self&#34; required to walk away from industry gatekeepers. Aaron Shafer-Haiss, whose compositions have scored major network dramas like Station 19 and The Good Doctor, reflects on the &#34;utilitarian creativity&#34; of a producer. It is a conversation about resilience, the &#34;growth seesaw&#34; of a creative marriage, and the realization that the dream is already happening.

Michaela Anne + Aaron Shafer-Haiss on intuition vs assumption, creative ownership, and vulnerability as a faucet.

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/5/5/2/549ad3c5-883c-4066-9b14-a140917ad46b_to_149_molly_tuttle_final.mp3

Molly Tuttle has shared stages with Ringo Starr and Billy Strings, yet she still grapples with the unpredictable &#34;ups and downs&#34; of a musician&#39;s schedule, and the inherent instability of the road. We talk with the GRAMMY-winning artist, and first woman to win IBMA Guitarist of the Year, about the &#34;baggage&#34; of turning a passion into a profession. We explore the necessity of trusting one&#39;s gut over industry expectations, how she navigates the transition from bluegrass traditionalism to rock-leaning solo projects, and the quiet power of a partner who understands the nuance of tour routing.In This Episode:<ul><li><a href="https://www.mollytuttlemusic.com/" rel="nofollow">Molly Tuttle</a></li><li><a href="https://www.nonesuch.com/" rel="nofollow">Nonesuch Records</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyler_Childers" rel="nofollow">Tyler Childers</a></li><li><a href="https://www.berklee.edu/" rel="nofollow">Berklee College of Music</a></li><li><a href="https://www.theother22hours.com/archive" rel="nofollow">Ep 3 - The Milk Carton Kids</a></li><li><a href="https://thegoodbyegirlsmusic.bandcamp.com/album/going-to-boston" rel="nofollow">The Goodbye Girls</a></li><li><a href="https://www.yeproc.com/artists/stray-birds/" rel="nofollow">The Stray Birds</a></li><li><a href="https://www.arkansas.com/state-parks/explore/parks/ozark-folk-center-state-park" rel="nofollow">Ozark Mountain Folk Center</a></li><li><a href="https://bluegrasstoday.com/events-directory/first-ladies-of-bluegrass/" rel="nofollow">First Ladies of Bluegrass</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alison_Brown" rel="nofollow">Alison Brown</a></li><li><a href="https://www.theother22hours.com/archive" rel="nofollow">Ep 50 - Sierra Hull</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missy_Raines" rel="nofollow">Missy Raines</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Becky_Buller" rel="nofollow">Becky Buller</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketch_Secor" rel="nofollow">Ketch Secor</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Crow_Medicine_Show" rel="nofollow">Old Crow Medicine Show</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Stapleton" rel="nofollow">Chris Stapleton</a></li><li><a href="https://www.theother22hours.com/archive" rel="nofollow">Ep 28 - The Wood Brothers</a></li></ul> Go Deeper:<ul><li>Watch: View this entire conversation on<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours" rel="nofollow"> YouTube</a>.</li><li>Explore: Find similar conversations in <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours/playlists" rel="nofollow">these themed playlists</a>.</li><li>Connect: Join the conversation on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/theother22hours/?hl=en" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>.</li></ul>The Hosts:The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).<ul><li>More about <a href="http://www.shaferhaiss.com" rel="nofollow">Aaron’s work</a>.</li><li>More about <a href="http://www.michaelaanne.com" rel="nofollow">Michaela Anne’s work</a>.</li></ul>Credits: Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the <a href="https://thebluegrasssituation.com/podcasts/" rel="nofollow">Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network</a>.

Molly Tuttle has shared stages with Ringo Starr and Billy Strings, yet she still grapples with the unpredictable &#34;ups and downs&#34; of a musician&#39;s schedule, and the inherent instability of the road. We talk with the GRAMMY-winning artist, and first woman to win IBMA Guitarist of the Year, about the &#34;baggage&#34; of turning a passion into a profession. We explore the necessity of trusting one&#39;s gut over industry expectations, how she navigates the transition from bluegrass traditionalism to rock-leaning solo projects, and the quiet power of a partner who understands the nuance of tour routing.

Molly Tuttle on genre fluidity, artistic anxiety, and micro-managing travel routing.

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/4/27/2/28b480a2-6bf6-496a-b107-e5c361e4a0f5_to_148_ray_benson_final.mp3

Ray Benson is an absolute pillar of American music, a nine-time GRAMMY winner whose band, Asleep at the Wheel, has defined western swing for over half a century. In this conversation, we talk with Ray about the &#34;geographical imperative,&#34; rebuilding his career from a broke-down bus to a musical institution, and the delicate balance between the craft of music and the business of image. This is an exploration of longevity, team building, and the importance of finding a &#34;moral compass&#34; in leadership.In This Episode:<ul><li><a href="https://www.raybenson.com/" rel="nofollow">Ray Benson</a></li><li><a href="https://www.asleepatthewheel.com/" rel="nofollow">Asleep at the Wheel</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter,_Paul_and_Mary" rel="nofollow">Peter, Paul, and Mary</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Seeger" rel="nofollow">Pete Seeger</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woody_Guthrie" rel="nofollow">Woody Guthrie</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Cliburn" rel="nofollow">Van Cliburn</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lester_Flatt" rel="nofollow">Lester Flatt</a></li><li><a href="https://martystuart.net/" rel="nofollow">Marty Stuart</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Copland" rel="nofollow">Marc Copland</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Motian" rel="nofollow">Paul Motian</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Abercrombie_(guitarist)" rel="nofollow">John Abercrombie</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Strait" rel="nofollow">George Strait</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Gill" rel="nofollow">Vince Gill</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_Records" rel="nofollow">Tower Records</a></li><li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbyXBUEOy5A" rel="nofollow">“The Letter Johnny Walker Read”</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merle_Haggard" rel="nofollow">Merle Haggard</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Wright" rel="nofollow">Lawrence Wright</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumford_%26_Sons" rel="nofollow">Mumford and Sons</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Dessner" rel="nofollow">Aaron Dessner</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._S._Eliot" rel="nofollow">T.S. Elliot</a></li><li><a href="https://www.myhaam.org/" rel="nofollow">Health Alliance for Austin Musicians</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Scruggs" rel="nofollow">Chris Scruggs</a></li><li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molly_Tuttle" rel="nofollow">Molly Tuttle</a></li><li><a href="http://www.theother22hours.com/thearchive" rel="nofollow">Ep 86 - Tommy Emmanuel</a></li></ul> Go Deeper:<ul><li>Watch: View this entire conversation on<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours" rel="nofollow"> YouTube</a>.</li><li>Explore: Find similar conversations in <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@theother22hours/playlists" rel="nofollow">these themed playlists</a>.</li><li>Connect: Join the conversation on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/theother22hours/?hl=en" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>.</li></ul> The Hosts:The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).<ul><li>More about <a href="http://www.shaferhaiss.com" rel="nofollow">Aaron’s work</a>.</li><li>More about <a href="http://www.michaelaanne.com" rel="nofollow">Michaela Anne’s work</a>.</li></ul> Credits: Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the <a href="https://thebluegrasssituation.com/podcasts/" rel="nofollow">Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network</a>.

Ray Benson is an absolute pillar of American music, a nine-time Grammy winner whose band, Asleep at the Wheel, has defined western swing for over half a century. In this conversation, we talk with Ray about the &#34;geographical imperative,&#34; rebuilding his career from a broke-down bus to a musical institution, and the delicate balance between the craft of music and the business of image. This is an exploration of longevity, team building, and the importance of finding a &#34;moral compass&#34; in leadership.

Asleep at the Wheel on artistic identity, the vow of poverty, and why the geographic imperative is BS.

Exploring the messiness of a career built on creativity: how to survive, sustain, and protect your work.

An exploration of the creative life, lived in the in-between.

A sanctuary for the creative spirit in a results-obsessed world.

Moving beyond the highlight reel, hosts and working musicians Aaron Shafer-Haiss and Michaela Anne facilitate intimate, artist-to-artist conversations with renowned musicians, authors, visual artists and actors about the grit required to sustain a life in the arts. From navigating doubt to finding stillness, this is the reality of the work. Unfiltered.
