- Theology and the Episcopal Church with Kelli Joyce and Scott MacDougall
What is theology? And what is the Episcopal Church’s relationship to it? How does the Episcopal Church think and live theologically?
Several authors approach these questions in a book released earlier this year by Church Publishing: Wisdom, Knowledge, and Faith: New Essays on the Future of Theology and the Episcopal Church. We invited two of its contributors, Scott MacDougall and the Rev. Kelli Joyce, to share their thoughts.
It can be easy for Episcopal leaders, or the average Episcopalian, to feel like theology is a luxury, fussy, or something “other people” do who have the time or training to care.
Today we get a taste of how two of the top theological and pastoral thinkers in the Episcopal Church more broadly consider theology and its role in Episcopal life, from personal formation to polity and Church unity, and they’re helping other Episcopalians to understand how they're already "doing theology" together.
If you dig the conversation or want to learn more, Church publishing will give you 20% off Kelli and Scott’s book with code TURN20 at checkout at churchpublishing.org. Offer ends December 31. We’ll include a link in the show notes.
Along with Executive Director Matthew Olver, Scott and Kelli discuss:
- What is theology?
- What does it mean for Christian theology to be “recognizable” across the centuries?
- How do Episcopalians understand themselves within the larger Christian tradition, even in theological tension and conflict?
The Rev. Kelli Joyce is a priest of the Diocese of Arizona, currently living and ministering in the Diocese of Tennessee. She is a candidate for the Ph.D. in Theological Studies at Vanderbilt University.
Scott MacDougall is director for theological resources for The Episcopal Church.
Kelli co-edited (with Rob McSwain) and Scott contributed to the book that inspired this conversation, Wisdom, Knowledge, and Faith: New Essays on the Future of Theology and the Episcopal Church.
In our bonus segment, how do you spot a deacon in a crowd? What if you’re called to be one? And what if you’ve got a deacon-in-formation on your hands?
The Rev. W. Keith McCoy joins TLC for a chat about the vocation of deacons, how it differs from lay and priestly ministry, and top tips for nurturing a deacon at your church.
Keith is a deacon from the Diocese of New Jersey, a semi-retired public library administrator, and a former archdeacon and chair of diaconal formation. He is currently president of the Fund for the Diaconate of The Episcopal Church.
From the episode:
Get 20% off Kelli and Scott’s book with code TURN20 at checkout at churchpublishing.org. Offer ends December 31, 2026.
Learn about the Fund for the Diaconate
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Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsE180 - 54m - Sep 10, 2026 - Through Fire and Flood: Recovering from Natural Disaster
How do you lead a congregation or a community in the wake of natural disaster?
This question has always been relevant for church leaders to wrestle with, from theodicy and loss of life, to property damage and insurance claims. Climate change is making this question all the more common.
In Isaiah, God says to a people well-acquainted with disaster, “When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned” (43:2).
Today we hear from three Episcopal leaders whose churches have recently passed through fire and flood. Where did they see, even in the moment, God’s hand at work? What did they learn from the experience? What wisdom would they share with other church leaders like you?
We’ll hear three stories today of Episcopal parishes and natural disaster, including:
- Practical tips for parishes, ex. how to communicate if cell service goes out, ways to build preparedness.
- How preaching and pastoral care are shaped, even years later.
- The strange gift of insufficiency as a priest.
- The surprises of God’s presence in chaos, relief efforts, and the long road of recovery.
Our guests include:
- The Rev. Kelsey Davis, Bishop’s Deputy for Disaster Response and Recovery in the Diocese of Western North Carolina and vicar at St. George’s Episcopal Church, Asheville
- The Rev. Bryan Owen, rector of St. Luke's Episcopal Church, Baton Rouge, Louisiana
- The Rev. Bert Baetz, rector of St. Peter's Episcopal Church, Kerrville, Texas
For our bonus chat, how do we experience God’s provision, not only in extraordinary events but in the day-to-day? Jerusalem Greer joins us to share about a book she reviewed for us, Food Theology: Nourishing Faith in Local Communities. We chat about the age-old Christian calling to share God’s love through food, and end with her best recipe for bread pudding.
Jerusalem is Co-Executive Director and Agrarian Minister at Procter Camp & Conference Center in the Diocese of Southern Ohio.
From this episode
Learn more about becoming a Living Church Partner
Episcopal Relief and Development
Donate to St. Luke's building fund
Donate to St. Peter's flood relief ministries
Donate to Western NC disaster resiliency
From the bonus
Procter Center and farm (where Jerusalem works)
Jerusalem's savory bread pudding recipe
From TLC magazine
Louisiana Parish to Rebuild After Devastating Fire
Hurricane Batters Churches Across the Southeast
Anglican Priest and Funeral Director Reflects on Texas Flooding
Texas Hill Country Parish Offers Support for the Long Haul
The Gospel and Real Stomachs (Jerusalem's book review)
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Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsE179 - 56m - Aug 27, 2026 - Consider the Stars with David Wilkinson
Today we learn from a theologian and astrophysicist about how priests can navigate science and faith.
“Consider the stars,” God says to Abraham. The psalms and canticles, too, recommend we look up, beyond our own planet, to consider the grandeur and mystery of God’s handiwork.
You could also say, in a way, that’s what science does, whether it’s looking upward and outward or down and in.
Today we hear from a fellow stargazer and foremost leader in the area of Christianity and science, specializing in resourcing leaders for engagement in and conversations about the scientific topics of our day.
As we learn, you don’t have to be an expert to be an advocate for good scientific work, or to point out where God is at work, even in some of the most complex and controversial issues your parishioners are dealing with, like AI or life on other planets.
Our guest is the Rev. Dr. David Wilkinson. David is Principal of St Johns College and Professor in the Department of Theology and Religion at the University of Durham, England. His background is in theoretical astrophysics and systematic theology. David is also a Methodist minister, has been an ecumenical canon at Durham Cathedral, and is the Project Director at Equipping Christian Leadership in an Age of Science.
Today we’ll talk about:
- Surprising and fruitful intersections between ministry and science.
- How the average parish priest can enter difficult science-related conversations.
- Theological implications of space travel, living on other planets, and UFO/UAP phenomena.
In our bonus segment, we call up New Testament scholar Wesley Hill for a teaser of his talk at our Radiant Pages conference, all about the non-Pauline epistles and their place in Christian life.
The Rev. Dr. Wesley Hill is an author, speaker, and professor, and currently serves as Associate Professor of New Testament at Wycliffe College Toronto. He has several new books in the works, including a theological commentary on the Johannine Epistles.
From the episode
Equipping Christian Leadership in an Age of Science
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Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsE178 - 57m - Aug 13, 2026 - Newsdesk on ACC Gathering in Ireland
What happened at the Anglican Consultative Council meeting in Belfast, and why does it matter?
In July, our editor, Mark Michael, returned from a gathering of Anglicans that happens every three years: a meeting of the Anglican Consultative Council (ACC). This year’s was June 27- July 5, in Belfast, Northern Ireland, and also marked the first 100 days or so of Archbishop Sarah Mullally’s ministry as Archbishop of Canterbury.
We pulled together a special episode of the newsdesk to talk about what Mark brought back from this international Communion reunion, who was there, what people were hoping for, and what came of it.
We’ll particularly discuss the reception and discussion of a document from the InterAnglican Standing Commission on Unity, Faith, and Order, known as the Nairobi-Cairo Proposals (NCPs).
Two principal proposals in the NCPs were hotly debated at the Anglican Consultative Council meeting: a proposal to limit the powers of the Archbishop of Canterbury and share them among other primates, and proposal to removing communion with the See of Canterbury as a primary marker of Anglican identity.
Special thanks to Mark Michael, our editor, and the Matthew Olver, our executive director and publisher, who joined me at the newsdesk.
In our bonus segment, we go from the Communion gathering to vestry meeting. How do you nurture vestry members in their capacity as spiritual leaders? Retired Episcopal priest and retreat facilitator, the Rev. Dr. Marc Smith, has some tips.
From this episode
Podcast episodes:
Newsdesk on developments in Gafcon’s Global Anglican Communion
Questions for Gafcon (Winner of Episcopal Communicators Polly Bond Award)
Websites & documents:
Inter-Anglican Standing Commission on Unity, Faith and Order
Anglican Consultative Council Standing Committee Resolution
Statement from Global South Fellowship of Anglican Churches
Living Church articles:
Mullally Calls ACC to Deepened Hope and Trust
Anglicans Challenged to Plant 1 Million Churches
ACC Members Walk in Derry’s Paths of Peace
ACC Members Doubtful About Nairobi-Cairo Proposals
Mullally on Nairobi-Cairo Proposals: ‘We’re Not There Yet’
ACC Debates Nairobi-Cairo Proposals, Elects Leaders
Archbishop Mullally: The First 100 Days
From the bonus
Vestry Reflections: Cultivating Spiritual Growth in Church Leaders
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Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsE177 - 49m - Jul 30, 2026 - Through a Glass Brightly with Léonie Seliger
What mysteries wink at us from the bright colors of stained glass?
“For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face” (1 Cor. 13:12). Here St. Paul is talking about how the spectrum of the full human being is revealed—will be revealed—in the light of the face of Christ. But in our modern world of clear mirrors, transparent windows, and electric lights, seeing through glass is not usually done very darkly. One place that St. Paul’s image still comes alive, however, is in the stained glass window.
Stained glass can be darkening and illuminating at the same time. And as we learn from our guest today, what stained glass doesn’t reveal of the outdoors, with unmediated sunlight, it makes up for by illuminating what's indoors. By dimming with color and pattern, it can actually bring the beauty of the church into better focus, both with literal light, and through the stories it tells.
Where does stained glass come from? And why did it become so important to Christians? What can we read in stained glass, what do we often miss? And how, if you’re a steward of stained glass windows yourself, can you take better care of them?
Our guest is Léonie Seliger, the stained glass artist responsible for the conservation of the stained glass windows of Canterbury Cathedral.
Léonie joins us to talk about:
- The origins and theology of stained glass.
- The limits and complexities of the art, and how they open up creative possibility.
- What to pay attention to when taking care of stained glass in your church.
- A few inside stories about the stained glass in Canterbury Cathedral.
Léonie is Director of The Cathedral Studios of Canterbury, which makes, designs, and preserves stained glass for churches all over the world. She is a Freeman of the Worshipful Company of Glaziers and an ICON accredited conservator/restorer.
Today we scale the scaffolding for an up-close look at one of the oldest Christian art forms and what it reveals about Church history, human longings, and life in Christ.
From this episode
Thomas Becket miracle window project at Canterbury Cathedral
Canterbury Cathedral Studios website
All Saints parish in Tudeley, Marc Chagall windows
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Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsE176 - 54m - Jul 16, 2026 - Newsdesk on Magnifica Humanitas, Mozambique, Myanmar
In today’s newsdesk roundup, Editor Mark Michael, Executive Director Matthew Olver, and podcast host Amber Noel provide coverage and commentary for three top news stories affecting the Anglican world.
Story number one: Magnifica Humanitas. Pope Leo’s first and recent encyclical is a special, even unique, papal letter. And its topic, artificial intelligence, as well as its tone, are urgent. The letter asks not just “What is the church’s response?” but “What is our human choice?”
We also discuss a series of Anglican responses from our online blog, Covenant, especially touching on humans as sub-creators and Anglo-Catholic social movements.
In the next two stories: We look into ongoing coverage of jihadist persecution and interfaith resilience in the Diocese of Cabo Delgado, Mozambique. We also learn about the Anglican church in Myanmar, through their post-colonial witness to unity and the life of an Anglican seminary.
In our bonus segment, we chat with our freshly retired Associate Editor, Douglas LeBlanc, about highlights and challenges of his long career as a religious journalist, including some surprising wisdom for friendships across the aisle.
Douglas LeBlanc served as Associate Editor of The Living Church magazine. He's also written for Christianity Today, among many other publications, and served at St. Christopher Camp and Conference Center. He and his wife, Monica, live in Virginia with their cats, Mittens and Finn, and attend St. Matthew’s, Henrico.
From this episode
Magnifica Humanitas and Anglican response:
Encyclical Letter Magnifica Humanitas
"Why Magnifica Humanitas Matters"
"An Anglican Reception of Magnifica Humanitas"
"Magnifica Humanitas and Anglican Christian Socialism"
Cabo Delgado:
"Mozambican Christians Reject Religious War"
"Schism Threatened in Mozambican Church"
"Persecution Deepens in Cabo Delgado"
Myanmar:
"Singing Praise in the Blackouts"
From the bonus
TLC honors Doug LeBlanc’s long career
From the ads
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George Sumner’s book, In Season and Out
Join the mission at Saint Francis Ministries
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Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsE175 - 57m - Jun 18, 2026 - Clergy at the Movies with Abby Olcese
What are the best depictions of clergy in film? Today we swap Top 5 Clergy in Film lists with a celebrated film critic. A recipe for edification and entertainment!
We all know of sloppy versions of the movie cleric—priests, monks, nuns, and pastors, either fanatical, evil, or milquetoast, lacking care or nuance on the part of those creating the role. But perhaps you’ve also seen thoughtful, even powerful, depictions of clergy that not only allow you to see a glimpse of yourself reflected sensitively onscreen, but even give you a glimpse of the kingdom.
Today we explore depictions of clergy in film with writer, film critic, and erstwhile Episcopalian Abby Olcese. She and host Amber Noel share their Top 5 depictions of clergy in film, spill some behind-the-scenes tea on The Mission and Wake Up Dead Man, and generally have a really good time. They also share what they think Christian leaders might glean from spending time with onscreen clerics.
SPOILER ALERT: Today’s conversation alludes to plot twists and endings, so if you’re averse to that, you have been warned!
Abby Olcese is a writer and film critic based in Kansas City. She is the author of Films for all Seasons: Experiencing the Church Year at the Movies, the film editor for The Pitch Magazine in Kansas City, and contributes to publications including Sojourners Magazine and Rogerebert.com.
In today’s bonus segment, we bring together some of the same themes of our film conversation—clergy, calling, suffering, and grace—by talking to one Pentecostal pastor about his own dark night of the soul and the dramatic and kooky interceptions of grace.
The Rev. Chuck Noel is teaching pastor at RiverLife Church of God in Bradenton, Florida, and has served in pastoral and diocesan ministry in the Church of God for almost 50 years. His current research is in Pentecostal sacramental theology. (And yes, he is Amber’s dad.)
From the episode
Abby’s book, Films for All Seasons
Amber’s review of First Reformed on Covenant
Abby’s Top 5:
5. Calvary
2. Wake Up, Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery
1. The Mission
Amber’s Top 5:
4. The Apostle
1. Calvary
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George Sumner’s book, In Season and Out
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Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsE174 - 54m - Jun 4, 2026 - Where Are the Young Adults? with Allen Wakabayashi
The Episcopal Church is aging. Where are the young people? A campus minister gives his perspective.
The average age of an Episcopal parishioner is now mid-60s. Older parishioners are vital. But where are the young people? How do we reach them? And what, exactly, are they looking for when it comes to church?
Times are changing in terms of the race for cultural relevance, at least when it comes to ministry to young adults. Waning are the days when churches feel pressure to change style or personality in order to appeal to younger generations.
Because what has worked for centuries to form God’s people keeps on working—sacraments; sacred spaces, vestments and vessels; time-tested prayers; bread and wine, water, oil, and incense; loving community—and there is no sign at the portals saying, “you must be 21 or up to enter”
There’s also an element of blessed enchantment, or holy mystery, in these ancient Christian rites and practices, that’s maybe specially poignant for a disenchanted age.
Today we speak with someone today who doesn’t try to solve the puzzle of why more young people aren’t flocking to Episcopal Churches, but who wants to point out some important pieces from his own 30-year experience as a campus minister.
Today we talk about:
- His journey in ministry to young adults.
- Blind spots and opportunities for the Episcopal Church specifically.
- What he sees in the spiritual hunger of students.
- What he has learned from evangelicals along the way.
- How rootedness and tradition might give a real advantage when it is time for innovative mission.
Our guest today is the Rev. Allen Wakabayashi. Allen serves as the Chaplain for The Episcopal Church at Princeton and as the Province II Coordinator for Young Adult Campus Ministries. He has also been a campus minister with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, and has pastored in a diversity of Episcopal, non-denominational, and evangelical church settings.
Today’s bonus segment takes us into our Books & Culture corner, where the Rev. David Beresford reviews the new film, A Great Awakening, about an unlikely friendship between Benjamin Franklin and itinerant preacher, George Whitefield. David is a retired priest who lives in Wilmington, Delaware.
From this episode
Books Allen mentions:
Leading Faithful Innovation: Following God into a Hopeful Future
Leadership in a Shrinking Church
David’s whole review of A Great Awakening
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Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsE173 - 50m - May 21, 2026 - Geography of Discipleship with Eleanor Sanderson
Mission and discipleship are connected at the root. Today we’re going to explore some of those connections, not only through our guest’s own life, but also through her experience with particular discipleship programs, as well as what she’s learned through a first career as a geographer and her husband’s career as a mechanic.
Our guest today is the Rt. Rev. Dr. Eleanor Sanderson. Eleanor is Bishop of Hull in the Diocese of York and was previously the Assistant Bishop in the Diocese of Wellington, New Zealand. She serves on the Anglican Communion Commission for Discipleship and Evangelism and has a passion for the renewal of God’s church through multiplying missional disciples and intentional communities.
Today we talk about personal journeys: backpacking, bus rides, and the multifaceted adventure of coming to Christ. We also talk about helping guide others along the way, and how evangelism and community map onto the geography of discipleship and formation.
We’ll also look at a practical apprenticeship model of discipleship she calls “discipleship coaching.” She suggests some excellent resources and describes their powerful but simple format, including Mustard Seed ministries and Discovery Bible Studies.
And at the end of this episode, stay tuned for a new bonus segment!
For today’s bonus segment, we chat with the Rev. Shahzad Gill, Senior Chaplain to the Moderator Bishop of the Church of Pakistan, and Presbyter in Charge of the National Church of Pakistan. With all the anxiety over Christian influence and power in politics and society in the U.S., what it’s like to be an Anglican in a place where Christians are hardly the majority? Shahzad tells a story about family and resilience.
From this episode:
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Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsE172 - 48m - May 7, 2026 - Newsdesk & Eastertide Treats
Today’s Newsdesk episode covers developments in Gafcon’s Global Anglican Communion, a Rwandan bishop jailed for grazing cattle on church property, and a new, and possibly unique, church growth survey looking for “bright spots” in Episcopal ministry.
We also enjoy a bonus segment at the end that includes some Eastertide treats, including book recommendations and recipes.
See below for related articles, essays, and resources, including corresponding goodies from our bonus segment.
Podcast host and Director of Programs Amber Noel is joined by the Rev. Mark Michael, Editor in Chief of The Living Church magazine, and the Rev. Dr. Matthew Olver, Executive Director and Publisher of the Living Church.
For more, consider subscribing to The Living Church magazine, the only independent news voice covering the Episcopal Church and Anglican Communion.
From this episode:
Gafcon, Global Anglican Communion, and Abuja Affirmation:
(Award-winning podcast episode)
https://livingchurch.org/podcasts/questions-for-gafcon/
(Articles and essays)
https://livingchurch.org/news/news-anglican-communion/heres-who-leads-the-global-anglican-communion/
https://livingchurch.org/covenant/abuja-series-1/
https://livingchurch.org/covenant/a-confessional-solution-but-what-about-the-nairobi-cairo-proposal/
https://livingchurch.org/covenant/the-abuja-affirmation-an-anglican-communion/
https://livingchurch.org/covenant/abuja-series-goddard-responds-to-avis/
https://livingchurch.org/covenant/a-fretful-future-gafcons-reordering-of-the-communion-part-1/
Rwandan bishop and cattle grazing:
https://livingchurch.org/news/news-anglican-communion/jailed-rwandan-bishop-pleads-for-justice/
https://livingchurch.org/news/news-anglican-communion/jailed-rwandan-bishop-released/
New church growth survey:
https://livingchurch.org/news/news-episcopal-church/churchwide-surveys-seeks-bright-spots-for-growt…
Eastertide treats:
Travel books by Patrick Leigh Fermor
Elderflower gin + tonic (Don’t forget to add lemon!)
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Join the mission at Saint Francis Ministries
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsE171 - 44m - Apr 23, 2026 - Personal Prayer and Leadership Lessons with John Sundara
What’s your school of prayer? Where did you learn to pray? How do you continue to deepen your prayer life? Whose prayer life do you want to have when you grow up? How do you want the example of your prayer life, or the fruits of it, to be a gift to others?
Today’s conversation is about how prayer affects our leadership, and how our pastors’ prayer lives affect us. Whether you are the leader of a congregation, staff, or a person in the pew, our show today is a fascinating, and at times moving, analysis of how healthy leadership, staff culture, and church health are deeply intertwined with the prayer lives of the leaders.
Our conversation isn’t based on formal research, but from the lived perspective of one priest and what he’s observed in the different churches and rectors he’s served.
Our guest today is the Rev. John D. Sundara. John is vice rector at St. John the Divine Episcopal Church in Houston, Texas. Previous appointments include St. Martin's, Houston, and Church of the Incarnation, Dallas.
We’ll talk about things like:
- The importance of sharing your prayer life with the people you serve.
- Appropriate vulnerability and rejecting ego.
- How a culture of prayer creates room for discussion, disagreement, and decision-making.
- Ways that prayer nurtures a trusting and confident staff culture.
- The gifts and limitations of the prayer book for carrying us in a life of prayer.
John also shares about his journey, and times when prayer has been agonizingly difficult. How does God show up when praying is the last thing you want to do?
Now whether you are a newbie or long time student in the school of prayer; sailing along or bottomed out; charismatic, Catholic, evangelical, or somewhere else on the map; if you’re interested in what it can mean to lead from a place of prayer, this episode is for you. We hope you enjoy the conversation.
From this episode:
This episode is made possible in part by a special bequest from the Anglican Fellowship of Prayer.
“Prayer Drives Congregational Growth” by John Sundara
With Christ in the School of Prayer by Andrew Murray
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Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsE170 - 50m - Apr 9, 2026 - Archbishop Sarah: A Biography with Andrew Atherstone
Who is Archbishop Sarah Mullally? And what might we expect from her ministry?
Augustine of Canterbury was sent by Pope Gregory in 597 on mission to re-evangelize Britain and became the first Archbishop of Canterbury. Incase you haven’t heard, Anglicans have made world news for electing as the 106th Archbishop of Canterbury the first woman to serve in the role, former Bishop of London, the Most Rev. Sarah Mullally.
Archbishop Sarah is coming into the role at a time of many tensions and possible changes within the Anglican Communion, including what the ABC's role should actually be and what shape the church might take under the continued pressures of disagreement over what it means to be faithful to the gospel today.
Our editor in chief, the Rev. Dr. Mark Michael, sat down with Dr. Andrew Atherstone, who has just published the definitive biography of Archbishop Sarah called (very appropriately) Archbishop Sarah Mullally: A Biography.
They talk about:
- Why she was the “dark horse” of the ABC race the bookies didn’t initially bet on.
- Why Andrew calls her a “trailblazer” and a “pioneer.”
- How 20 years in a south-side evangelical church and a 20-year career as a nurse shape her leadership.
- What we learn from a collection of her parish sermons.
- And how we might anticipate her role in the Anglican Communion’s approach to euthanasia, same-sex marriage, and other divisive issues.
Andrew is Professor of Modern Anglicanism at the University of Oxford, and Tutorial Fellow and Latimer Research Fellow at Wycliffe Hall, Oxford. He is a prolific writer and biographer of the former Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby.
We hope you enjoy the conversation.
From this episode:
Archbishop Sarah Mullally: A Biography by Andrew Atherstone
Archbishop Justin Welby: Risk Taker and Reconciler by Andrew Atherstone
Ecclesiastical History of the English People and other books by the Venerable Bede
Living in Love and Faith process
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Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsE169 - 47m - Mar 26, 2026 - AI and the Church with Arlie Coles and George Sumner
How should Anglicans feel about AI? But first: what the heck is it?
Our guests today tackle one of the toughest topics of our time head on, from both a theological and technical perspective.
What is AI? Is it unprecedented? What can AI currently, actually, do? Should Christians accept, or resist?
As Christians, it’s often hard to know whether to embrace new technology. If we get worked up or freaked out, is it about the right things? Where might we still need to fill in gaps in our knowledge or our discipleship? Are we living in The Matrix? Or can we let the robots help, sometimes, and still insist on fully human lives?
Our guests today are Arlie Coles and the Rt. Rev. Dr. George Sumner.
Arlie is a lay Anglican from the Diocese of Dallas who writes about modern Episcopal history and polity. She is also a machine-learning researcher serving on General Convention’s Task Force on Artificial Intelligence and Intellectual Property and a reporter for the Living Church.
Bishop George is retired Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Dallas and former Principal of Wycliffe Theological Seminary.
The Rev. Dr. Matthew Olver, Executive Director of the Living Church, joins Amber Noel as co-host.
We talk about:
- How AI taps into our instincts for communication, mystery, and relationship.
- How this both increases its usefulness and gives us the creeps.
- What AI is good for and not good for (spoiler, not writing sermons).
- Pastoral concerns about spiritual influence, addiction, and human dignity.
- Whether we need an Anglican “Prayer Before Using AI.”
- Why you might want to go full Star Trek and rename your Alexa “Computer” so you’re less likely to mistake a tool for a person.
The forms and capacities of human tools are not neutral— a steak knife, an AR-15, and a Ouija board do not carry the same potential for moral or immoral use— but, like the idols of old, do AI tools, which have “screens but see not, algorithms but feel not,” receive the power and significance they have only from the power and significance we give them?
One of the biggest dangers of AI comes from one of humanity’s greatest gifts: language and its use in relationships.
We hope you enjoy the conversation.
From this episode:
“AI as Normal Technology” by Arvind Narayanan and Sayash Kapoor
Against the Machine by Paul Kingsnorth
Interview with Paul Kingsnorth and Ross Douthat about AI
Find Nathan Jennings’ 6-part preaching series on our online journal, Covenant
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Email us with a proposed "Prayer Before Using AI": ambernoel@livingchurch.org
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsE168 - 57m - Mar 12, 2026 - Neuroscience in the Pews with Rod Wilson
In this episode, we learn from neuroscience to explore questions in theology and ministry.
When we talk about the brain, we think of the intellect, private processes, perception—even as the center or source of the self. And the brain is one important place where “self” happens.
But what if all our private, individualized function, in fact our very life, depends much more on exterior factors, like eye contact and physical touch? What if the center of what it means to be human, or even to be yourself, is not in your head but very much outside it?
How can what scientists are learning about the brain open up theological anthropology, pastoral care, and how we read Scripture?
Our guest today is Dr. Rodney Wilson. Rod is associate professor of psychology at Covenant College, Lookout Mountain, GA, with a specialty in clinical neuropsychology. He also works in hospitals and with patients who have dementia syndrome and their families, with one foot in the classroom and one in the clinic.
We talk today about neuroplasticity and the “renewing of the mind”; how we’re never so much “in our heads” as in relationships; how the temperature of your coffee or the smell of a charcoal fire can affect your ability to know truth and build trust; and what the brain teaches us about our limits and the mystery of love.
If this episode piques your interest, and you have further questions about the brain and Christian life or leadership, Rod welcomes you to get in touch with him. Please see the link to his website below.
Now hold on to your hats, and we hope you enjoy this enlightening conversation.
From this episode:
Dan Siegel and interpersonal neurobiology
Get in touch with Rod to learn more or with any questions
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Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsE167 - 42m - Feb 26, 2026 - The 1662 and You with Drew Keane
How does the 1662 Book of Common Prayer hold Anglicans together today?
What book of common prayer book do you use? And why? Whichever it is, and however you relate to other Anglicans, all of our common prayer books share one ancestor which still binds us together today, more closely than we might realize.
Today we’re going back to the roots of your Anglican prayer book: the great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandaddy of all Anglican prayer books, the 1662 Book of Common Prayer.
The 1662 wasn’t technically the first book of common prayer in England. So why is it the standard by which so many Anglicans today measure and revise their prayer books? Where did it come from? What makes it stand the test of time? How was it controversial, even divisive, in its own day? And how has it helped bring Christians together since?
Our guest is Dr. Drew Nathaniel Keane. Drew is a lecturer in English at Georgia Southern University and managing editor of The Anglican Way. He is the co-author, along with Samuel Bray, of How to Use the Book of Common Prayer and co-editor with the same of the 1662 Book of Common Prayer: International Edition. He’s also currently co-authoring a commentary on the 1662 Book of Common Prayer with IVP Academic.
Now let’s get down the family album, blow off the dust, and hear some tales from a fascinating and crucial chapter in our Anglican story. Family is indeed stranger than fiction. We hope you enjoy the conversation.
This episode is made possible in part by a special bequest from the Anglican Fellowship of Prayer.
From this episode:
How to Use the Book of Common Prayer: A Guide to the Anglican Liturgy
1662 Book of Common Prayer: International Edition
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Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsE166 - 42m - Feb 12, 2026 - Live in the Studio with Jon Guerra
Today, musician Jon Guerra joins us for a conversation about music, theology, and life—and a few live tunes.
We talk about his musical influences and about the formation (and deformation) that happens through Christian music. We talk about creating and speaking in difficult times, working in the shadow of the cross, and, as he puts it, “the dialectic struggle between the call and your ability to meet it.” We also talk about the importance of vulnerability and play, telling your story, and learning to be a Holy Fool.
Our executive director, Matthew Olver, joined us for this chat and mini-concert.
Our set list includes “In the Beginning Was Love,” “Where Your Treasure Is,” “Kingdom of God,” and “I See the Birds,” with great conversation in between.
Jon Guerra is a singer-songwriter who writes devotional music, “music for attending to the soul.” He’s based in Austin, Texas, and his albums include Keeper of Days, Ordinary Ways, and his latest, Jesus, among others. He also composed music for Terrence Malick’s 2019 film, A Hidden Life.
We hope you enjoy the music and the conversation.
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Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsE165 - 50m - Jan 29, 2026 - Preaching and Politics
How should ministers of the gospel engage politics from the pulpit?
Today’s episode is from a panel at the RadVo 2025 conference on politics and preaching: the if, why, and how.
Panelists discuss discernment, formation, and what preaching is for, and give examples of how the gospel of Jesus forms people who can be both responsive and resilient to political challenges and change.
Panelists include:
The Rev. Dr. Annette Brownlee, professor emerita of pastoral theology and the former chaplain at Wycliffe College at the University of Toronto. She has served the life of the church widely in both the academy and in parish ministry, and she's the author of Preaching Jesus Christ Today: Six Questions for Moving from Scripture to Sermon as well as “The Responsibility of the Church to the State in an Era of Mass Migration.”
The Rev. Tish Harrison Warren, writer and priest in the Anglican Church in North America. She's the author of several books, including Liturgy of the Ordinary and Prayer in the Night, which won Christianity Today's book of the year awards (2018 and 2022). She has also been a columnist for the New York Times and Christianity Today, and is a senior fellow at the Trinity Forum.
Dr. Joe Mangina, professor of theology at Wycliff College at the University of Toronto. He is the former editor of Pro Ecclesia, the ecumenical journal of theology, and has served on the Anglican-Roman Catholic Dialogue for Canada. He is the author of several books, including a commentary in the book of Revelation with Brazos Theological Commentary series.
The panel is moderated by the Rev. Dr. Matthew Olver, executive director of The Living Church.
Thanks to RadVo and Church of the Incarnation in Dallas who hosted this panel.
From the Bible, to the ballot box, to meditating come-to-Jesus meetings between parishioners fighting on Facebook, we hope you enjoy the conversation.
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Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsE164 - 1h 3m - Jan 15, 2026 - Jane Austen Cozy Christmas Chat with Haley Stewart and David Goodhew
With love, wit, and a laugh, Jane Austen brought human drama to the drawing room. We love her for it. It also gave her away as a Christian.
On December 16, 1775, the Anglican clergy family of Austens welcomed their youngest daughter, who would grow to become one of the world’s greatest novelists and, as we’ll discuss today, a profound Christian; a loving and lively friend, sister, and aunt; a scholar of human nature; and an expert on how the virtues and vices that make or break us reveal themselves in the everyday. She was also, for the record, hilarious.
Today’s conversation is part of our annual Cozy Christmas Chat series, and our guests are Haley Stewart and the Rev. Dr. David Goodhew.
Haley is a Catholic author and the editor of Word on Fire Votive. She was cohost of the popular Fountains of Carrots podcast, and is the author of Jane Austen's Genius Guide to Life, The Grace of Enough, and The Sister Seraphina Mysteries.
David is Vicar of St Barnabas Church, Middlesbrough, England and Visiting Fellow of St Johns College, Durham University. He is widely published, with five volumes on modern Christianity and church growth. But he has also written several excellent and entertaining essays on Jane Austen’s life and faith that you can read at livingchurch.org/covenant.
Today we encounter Jane Austen via Dante’s Inferno, learn from her on the virtues, unpack the popularity of Bridgerton, critique film adaptations, and learn about the personal practices of prayer that rooted Jane’s genius. And, from Mr. Darcy who can’t bear to be laughed at, to Emma with little to trouble or vex her, we discuss how humor, used with compassion, can be an expression of love.
We hope you enjoy this cozy Christmas conversation!
From this episode:
David’s articles on Jane Austen
Haley’s Sister Seraphina Mysteries
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Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsE163 - 47m - Dec 18, 2025 - Empowering Ministry with Immigrant Communities
What do wise and practical partnerships with immigrant communities look like?
Today’s episode is from a conversation we co-hosted with The Episcopal Parish Network to explore how congregations can engage more faithfully and effectively with immigrant and refugee neighbors.
We dip into a bit of theology here. But we concentrate on strategic application, legal context, and pastoral insights for building authentic relationships and deepening mission.
We discuss:
- Legal landscapes around immigration—what’s true, what’s not true, how it affects ministry.
- Pastoral care that is culturally responsive instead of awkward or well-meaningly clueless.
- Cooperating with ethnic leaders to support and empower immigrants and their families.
- Practical tips to try.
This conversation is about bridges across borders: discerning the opportunities God has put in front of you, making a solid plan, and accepting the time and help it takes to build bridges that last.
Our guests today are:
The Rev. Dr. Samira Izadi Page, founder and executive director of Gateway of Grace, Dallas, Texas.
James Montana, Esq., principal and immigration lawyer at James Montana Law, Falls Church, Virginia.
The Rev. Christian Anderson, vicar at St. Mary’s Episcopal Church, Stuart, Florida.
The Rev. Jaime Briceño, rector at St. Michael and All Angels Episcopal Church, Berwyn, Illinois.
From this episode:
List of recommended legal and ministry resources
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Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsE162 - 50m - Dec 4, 2025 - When Revival Meets Rosaries with Nathan Smith and David Han
What can we learn from surprising encounters between Catholics and Pentecostals?
In 1906, in a no-count Los Angeles storefront, a one-eyed preacher named William Seymour, son of former slaves, began leading services on Azuza Street.
Azuza Street has gone down in history as the catalyst of the Pentecostal movement, one of the largest groups of Christians in the world today. But it’s also had deep impact on much older traditions, including the Roman Catholic Church. Charismatic Catholics owe much to brothers and sisters whose practices may make them scratch their heads. On the other hand, maybe you've noticed the—could we call it?— "revival" among free-church Christians in interest in liturgy, tradition, and the sacraments.
This is just the generous way God works, giving us encounters we would never have found for ourselves, with him and one another, and helping us share our gifts and appreciate the gifts of others, across time, space, and difference.
Today we’ll hear from a Roman Catholic missioner and a Pentecostal theologian who have been walking together this surprising road of Christian unity, and we’ll hear some of their stories.
Nathan Smith serves as the Director of Ecumenism for Glenmary Home Missioners and as a consultant for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops Secretariat for Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs. In his ministry, he seeks to foster reconciliation between the Catholic Church, Evangelicals and Pentecostals. He also served with the Vatican’s Dicastery for Promoting Christian Unity at the 2024 Global Christian Forum gathering.
The Rev. Dr. David Han is the Dean of the Faculty at Pentecostal Theological Seminary and is involved in various ecumenical activities such as the Global Christian Forum, the Wesleyan Holiness Connection, the International Pentecostal and Anglican Commission, and the Catholic and Pentecostal Dialogue in the United States.
Now hold on to your rosaries. But stay ready to shout amen. We hope you enjoy the conversation.
Ministries and dialogues we mention:
US Conference of Catholic Bishops Secretariat for Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs
Dicastery for Promoting Christian Unity
International Pentecostal and Anglican Commission
Catholic and Pentecostal Dialogue
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Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsE161 - 45m - Nov 20, 2025
