From unsung trailblazers to cultural icons, Say It with History explores how the past shapes the stories we tell—and the lives we lead. Hosted by historian Holley Snaith, who has worked at two presidential libraries, a nonprofit honoring a beloved First Lady, and published numerous pieces on influential historical figures, each episode offers engaging, insightful, and often surprising journeys through time. Whether you’re a lifelong history lover or simply curious about the stories behind the past, this show brings history to life in fresh and meaningful ways.

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Women have long helped shape bluegrass and country music, even when their contributions were not always given equal attention. Singer, songwriter, and instrumentalist Pam Gadd reflects on her career from bluegrass festivals to the Grand Ole Opry, sharing stories of Wild Rose, Earl Scruggs, Porter Wagoner, Dolly Parton, and the changing opportunities for women in country music.Key Topics<ul><li>Women’s roles in bluegrass and country music</li><li>The formation and significance of the all-female band Wild Rose</li><li>Meeting and playing banjo with Earl Scruggs</li><li>Performing with Porter Wagoner on the Grand Ole Opry</li><li>Working with Dolly Parton and other country music legends</li><li>Finding an authentic voice as a musician and songwriter</li><li>Passing country and bluegrass traditions to new generations</li></ul>Guest BioPam Gadd is a singer-songwriter, multi-instrumentalist, and educator whose career spans bluegrass and country music. A founding member of Wild Rose, she has performed with artists including Porter Wagoner and Patty Loveless and appeared extensively on the Grand Ole Opry. Today, she continues to perform, record, and teach banjo, mandolin, and guitar.Connect with Pam: <a href="https://www.facebook.com/pam.gadd.7" rel="nofollow">Facebook</a> | <a href="https://www.instagram.com/banjopickngirl/" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>Pam’s Music: <a href="https://music.apple.com/us/artist/pam-gadd/80983809" rel="nofollow">Apple Music</a> | <a href="https://open.spotify.com/artist/2dIDURKjw2Io1RjrUIHPKY?si=S30djjxpTv-E0171-LiXDg" rel="nofollow">Spotify</a> | <a href="https://youtube.com/channel/UCYVnZGATNiV12flB8j3SaJA?si=8W1hakXuxMY2p8cp" rel="nofollow">YouTube Channel</a>Pam’s Work: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjvi_gNz2CA" rel="nofollow">Wild Rose Performing “Home Sweet Highway”</a> | <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdglHt-10OU" rel="nofollow">Porter Wagoner &amp; Pam Gadd Sing “The Queen of the Silver Dollar”</a> | <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17Yl6aHxD4E" rel="nofollow">Pam Gadd &amp; Dolly Parton Perform “Applejack” </a> Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Singer, songwriter, teacher, and friend Pam Gadd joins Holley to discuss her remarkable journey through bluegrass and country music, from childhood jam sessions to the Grand Ole Opry stage. Together, they explore Pam’s early musical influences, meeting Earl Scruggs and picking banjo with him, helping form Wild Rose at a time when few all-female bands existed in country music, and the importance of finding an authentic voice as a performer and songwriter. Pam also reflects on working alongside Porter Wagoner and Dolly Parton, recording with Dolly, lessons learned through teaching and performing, unforgettable stages throughout her career, and her recent collaboration with Charlie McCoy on a project featuring all-female session players.

Bluegrass and the Grand Ole Opry: Shaping the Sound of Nashville

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Lew Ayres is best remembered for All Quiet on the Western Front, but his life and career extended far beyond the role that made him famous. Film scholar Lesley L. Coffin explores Ayres’s Hollywood career, his controversial decision to become a conscientious objector during World War II, his intellectual and spiritual pursuits, and what his story reveals about celebrity, public perception, and the persistence of Hollywood myths.Key Topics<ul><li>Lew Ayres and All Quiet on the Western Front</li><li>His career within Hollywood’s studio system</li><li>Becoming a conscientious objector during World War II</li><li>Misconceptions surrounding his wartime service</li><li>Ayres’s letters, unpublished writings, and intellectual interests</li><li>His return to Hollywood and later career</li><li>Celebrity, public image, and the creation of Hollywood myths</li></ul>Guest BioLesley L. Coffin is a film scholar, journalist, interviewer, and critic with a master’s degree in star studies from New York University. She is the author of Hitchcock’s Stars: Alfred Hitchcock and the Hollywood Studio System and Lew Ayres: Hollywood’s Conscientious Objector, published by University Press of Mississippi.Connect with Lesley: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesley-l-coffin-7394668a/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Lew Ayres: Hollywood’s Conscientious Objector: <a href="https://www.upress.state.ms.us/Books/L/Lew-Ayres" rel="nofollow">University Press of Mississippi</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781628469431" rel="nofollow">Bookshop Ebook</a>Books Mentioned: The Stars Appear by Richard Dyer Maccann <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9780810825284" rel="nofollow">Bookshop</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Author Lesley L. Coffin joins Holley to explore the life and legacy of Lew Ayres, a lesser-known yet compelling figure in classic Hollywood. Together, they discuss her newly reprinted book Lew Ayres: Hollywood’s Conscientious Objector, tracing his rise to fame in All Quiet on the Western Front and the ways that role shaped his public image.

They also examine the misconceptions surrounding his decision to become a conscientious objector during World War II, the insights revealed through his letters and unpublished writings, and what his story tells us about celebrity, public perception, and the making of cultural myths.

The Myth of the Hollywood War Hero: Lew Ayres, Conscience, and World War II

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Unit 731 remains one of the most disturbing and lesser-known chapters of World War II. Historian Jenny Chan explores Japan’s secret biological warfare program, the role of the U.S. government in its postwar history, and why these atrocities remained largely unfamiliar to Western audiences for decades.Key Topics<ul><li>Unit 731 and Japan’s biological warfare program</li><li>The U.S. government’s role in the postwar aftermath</li><li>Why these atrocities remained little known in the West</li><li>World War II in the Asia-Pacific region</li><li>Media narratives and the shaping of public memory</li><li>Preserving and teaching difficult histories</li></ul>Guest BioJenny Chan is the director of Pacific Atrocities Education, a nonprofit dedicated to researching and teaching the history of World War II atrocities in the Asia-Pacific region. Her work encompasses subjects including Unit 731, the Nanjing Massacre, the invasion of Manchuria, and the “comfort women” system through research, publications, digital archives, and educationalConnect with Jenny: <a href="http://pacificatrocities.org/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.instagram.com/pacificatrocitiesedu" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a> | <a href="https://www.facebook.com/pacificatrocitieseducation/" rel="nofollow">Facebook</a> | <a href="https://x.com/PacificAtrocit2" rel="nofollow">X</a> | <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@PacificFrontUntold" rel="nofollow">YouTube</a>Books Mentioned: Marutas of Unit 731 by Jenny Chan <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781947766327" rel="nofollow">Paperback</a> Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Historian Jenny Chan joins Holley to explore the hidden history of Unit 731 and the role the American government played in the aftermath of World War II. Together, they discuss Japan’s secret biological warfare program, why these wartime atrocities remained largely unknown in the West for decades, and how media narratives shape public memory of the war. Jenny also shares insights from her archival research and the work of Pacific Atrocities Education
, highlighting the importance of preserving difficult histories and confronting overlooked chapters of World War II history.

Unit 731: War Crimes and the Cover-Up of Wartime Atrocities

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Joe DiMaggio became one of America’s most recognizable sports figures, but the man behind the public image remains more complicated than the legend. Researcher Kelly Lacroix explores DiMaggio’s relationship with fame and the press, his marriage to Marilyn Monroe, and the enduring myths that have shaped how he is remembered in American culture.Key Topics<ul><li>Joe DiMaggio’s rise from baseball star to cultural icon</li><li>His complicated relationship with fame and the media</li><li>Joe DiMaggio and Marilyn Monroe</li><li>Myths and misconceptions surrounding his life</li><li>The intersection of sports and Hollywood history</li><li>How celebrity and cultural memory shape historical reputations</li></ul>Guest BioKelly Lacroix is a French-born researcher and film professional based in the United Kingdom. A longtime student of classic Hollywood, she has spent the past five years researching Joe DiMaggio through her Finding Joe DiMaggio project, examining the gap between the public mythology surrounding him and the man behind the legend. Connect with Kelly: <a href="https://www.instagram.com/findingjoedimaggio/" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a> | <a href="https://www.threads.com/@findingjoedimaggio" rel="nofollow">Threads</a> | <a href="https://www.facebook.com/p/Finding-Joe-DiMaggio-61576671495770/" rel="nofollow">Facebook</a>Items from the Estate of Joe DiMaggio—Hunt Auction House: <a href="https://huntauctions.com/live/select_lot_closed_online.cfm?auction=27" rel="nofollow">View Lots</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Author and researcher Kelly Lacroix joins Holley to explore the life and legacy of Joe DiMaggio, one of the most iconic and misunderstood figures in American culture. Together, they discuss Joe’s rise from baseball star to cultural symbol, his complicated relationship with fame and the press, and the enduring fascination surrounding his marriage to Marilyn Monroe. Kelly also shares insights from her ongoing Finding Joe DiMaggio project, challenging long-standing myths and offering a more layered perspective on the man behind the legend. Blending sports history, Hollywood history, and cultural memory, this conversation examines how public figures are remembered—and what can emerge when we look beyond the myth.

The Man Behind the Legend: Joe DiMaggio, Fame, and American Memory

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Elizabeth Willing Powel occupied a fascinating place within the political and social world of America’s founding generation. Historian Samantha Snyder explores Powel’s relationships with figures such as George Washington and John Adams, the ways women exercised influence through correspondence, conversation, hospitality, and social networks, and why Powel’s role in the early republic deserves greater recognition.Key Topics<ul><li>Elizabeth Willing Powel’s life and legacy</li><li>Women’s influence during the American founding</li><li>Powel’s relationships with George Washington and John Adams</li><li>Politics and society in early Philadelphia</li><li>Correspondence, hospitality, and social networks as forms of influence</li><li>Challenging misconceptions about women’s roles in the founding era</li></ul>Guest BioSamantha Snyder is a Research Librarian at the George Washington Presidential Library at Mount Vernon and author of the forthcoming A Remarkable Woman: Elizabeth Willing Powel and the Founding of the American Republic. She has spent nearly a decade researching Powel’s life, drawing on archival research and public history to recover her place in the story of the American founding.Connect with Samantha: <a href="https://www.samanthalsnyder.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.instagram.com/sam.snyder/" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/samantha-snyder-31267b31/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Research librarian and historian Samantha Snyder joins Holley to explore the life and influence of Elizabeth Willing Powel, one of the most overlooked women of the American founding. Together, they discuss Powel’s relationships with figures such as George Washington, the role of women in shaping political culture in the eighteenth century, and how influence operated through conversation, correspondence, and social networks. Samantha also shares insights from her forthcoming book, A Remarkable Woman: Elizabeth Willing Powel and the Founding of the American Republic, offering a fresh perspective on power and legacy in early America.

The Power Behind the American Founding: Elizabeth Willing Powel and Women’s Influence in Early America

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Lauren Bacall became an icon of Hollywood almost overnight, but her life and career extended far beyond the image created during her early years. Film historian Anthony Uzarowski explores Bacall’s rise to fame, her legendary relationship with Humphrey Bogart, and her decades-long effort to establish herself as an actress and public figure on her own terms.Key Topics<ul><li>Lauren Bacall’s rise to fame during Hollywood’s Golden Age</li><li>The creation of her distinctive public image</li><li>Bacall’s relationship and career with Humphrey Bogart</li><li>Building an identity and career beyond Bogart’s legacy</li><li>Her transition between Hollywood and Broadway</li><li>The challenges and reinventions of a seven-decade career</li><li>The woman behind the enduring “Queen of Cool” image</li></ul>Guest BioAnthony Uzarowski is a film historian and author of Lauren Bacall: The Queen of Cool. His other books include Jessica Lange: An Adventurer’s Heart and Ava Gardner: A Life in Movies, and his writing on film and the arts has appeared in The Guardian, Turner Classic Movies, Film International, and other publications.Connect with Anthony: <a href="https://www.instagram.com/anthonyuzarowski/" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>Lauren Bacall: The Queen of Cool: <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781496838834" rel="nofollow">Hardcover</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781496861108" rel="nofollow">Ebook</a> | <a href="https://www.upress.state.ms.us/Books/L/Lauren-Bacall" rel="nofollow">University Press of Mississippi</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Author and film historian Anthony Uzarowski joins Holley to discuss his book Lauren Bacall: The Queen of Cool and the life and legacy of Lauren Bacall. They explore Bacall’s rise to fame, the image that defined her, and the career she built beyond her relationship with Humphrey Bogart. This episode offers a fresh look at Bacall’s longevity in Hollywood, the challenges she faced, and the legacy she created on her own terms.

Lauren Bacall: The Making of a Hollywood Legend

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Family history can reveal far more than names, dates, and family trees. Author Ben Robinson explores how letters, photographs, and archival records helped him reconstruct the life of his great-grandmother Charlotte and uncover a larger family story shaped by two world wars, resilience, and change across the twentieth century.Key Topics<ul><li>Using letters, photographs, and archives to uncover family history</li><li>Moving beyond names and dates to reconstruct individual lives</li><li>Women’s voices and experiences in family history</li><li>Family life during World War I and World War II</li><li>Balancing historical evidence with fictionalized storytelling</li><li>Preserving family stories for future generations</li><li>The connections between personal history and larger historical events</li></ul>Guest BioBen Robinson is a British writer, educator, and author of Finding Charlotte, a part-fictionalized historical memoir inspired by the life of his great-grandmother. Drawing on more than 100 family letters, documents, and photographs, his work explores family, war, memory, and the ways personal stories can illuminate the broader past.Connect with Ben: <a href="https://www.instagram.com/benrobinson137/" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>Finding Charlotte: <a href="https://www.booksamillion.com/p/Finding-Charlotte/Ben-Robinson/9781036964702" rel="nofollow">Books-A-Million</a> | <a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/1036964701?channelId=500&lv=shuf&plpRedirect=mhFallback" rel="nofollow">Amazon</a>Shows Mentioned: The Narrow Road to the Deep North (2025)Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Author Ben Robinson joins Holley to discuss the power of family history and the stories hidden within letters, photographs, and archival records. Together, they explore the journey of turning Ben’s great-grandmother Charlotte’s life into Finding Charlotte, a sweeping family saga shaped by war, resilience, and survival. They also examine why family history is about more than names and dates, the importance of preserving women’s voices, and the ways the past continues to shape the present.

Family History Research: How Documents and Archives Reveal the Past

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Marguerite “Missy” LeHand was one of Franklin D. Roosevelt’s closest and most influential aides, yet her role in his presidency has often been misunderstood or overlooked. Author Kathryn Smith explores LeHand’s partnership with FDR, the importance of Warm Springs in their story, and the broader ways women exercised influence behind the scenes of American political power.Key Topics<ul><li>Missy LeHand’s life and partnership with Franklin D. Roosevelt</li><li>Her influence within the Roosevelt White House</li><li>Myths and misconceptions surrounding Missy’s role</li><li>The significance of Warm Springs in FDR and LeHand’s story</li><li>Women working behind the scenes of presidential power</li><li>Parallels between Missy LeHand and Martha Washington</li><li>Bringing historical figures to life through research and performance</li></ul>Guest BioKathryn Smith is a journalist, historian, author, and speaker whose work explores overlooked people and stories in American history. She is the author of The Gatekeeper: Missy LeHand, FDR, and the Partnership that Defined a Presidency, Gertie, Baptists and Bootleggers, and Methodists and Moonshiners. She also co-authors the Missy LeHand Mystery series with Kelly Durham.The Gatekeeper: <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781501114977" rel="nofollow">Paperback</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781501114984" rel="nofollow">Ebook</a>Connect with Kathryn: <a href="https://margueritelehand.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.facebook.com/margueritelehand" rel="nofollow">Facebook</a> | <a href="https://bootleggers.substack.com/" rel="nofollow">Substack</a>Explore Kathryn’s Other Works: <a href="https://www.eveningpostbooks.com/blogs/news/author-kathryn-smith-on-cocktails-her-career-and" rel="nofollow">Evening Post Books</a>Books Mentioned: The Washingtons by Flora Fraser <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9780307474438" rel="nofollow">Paperback</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781101875858" rel="nofollow">Ebook</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Author and history speaker Kathryn Smith joins Holley to discuss the life and legacy of Marguerite “Missy” LeHand and the overlooked women who shaped power behind the presidency. They explore Kathryn’s book The Gatekeeper, the misconceptions surrounding Missy’s role in the Roosevelt White House, the importance of Warm Springs, and the parallels between Missy and Martha Washington as influential women working behind the scenes of history. Kathryn also shares why history can be surprising, entertaining, and deeply human.

The Power Behind the Presidency: Missy LeHand and Martha Washington

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O’Donnell Golf Club has been part of Palm Springs history since 1929, reflecting the growth of golf, tourism, and community life across the Coachella Valley. General Manager Alexandra Phillips explores the club’s remarkable past, its connections to figures including Gene Sarazen and Bob Hope, and the traditions, architecture, and preservation efforts that continue to shape its place in Palm Springs today.Key Topics<ul><li>The history of O’Donnell Golf Club and golf in Palm Springs</li><li>O’Donnell’s national historic designation and architecture</li><li>Gene Sarazen, Bob Hope, and other figures connected to the club</li><li>The history of Inspiration Point and the Easter Sunrise tradition</li><li>O’Donnell’s role in the Palm Springs community</li><li>Historic preservation and stewardship of the property</li><li>Balancing O’Donnell’s legacy with its future</li></ul>Guest BioAlexandra Phillips, MBA, PGA, CMAA, is the General Manager of O’Donnell Golf Club, the oldest golf club in the Coachella Valley. A former professional golfer, she combines her experience in the sport with executive leadership and a commitment to preserving O’Donnell’s history while guiding the historic club into its next chapter.Connect with O’Donnell Golf Club: <a href="https://www.odonnellgolfclub.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.instagram.com/theodonnellgolfclub/" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Alexandra Phillips, MBA, PGA, CMAA, joins Holley to explore the history of O’Donnell Golf Club and its lasting connection to Palm Springs and the Coachella Valley. Founded in 1929, O’Donnell is one of only three nationally historically designated golf courses in the United States and has been connected to figures including Gene Sarazen, Bob Hope, and Harold Matzner. Together, they discuss the rise of golf culture in Palm Springs, the history behind Inspiration Point and the Easter Sunrise tradition, and the club’s ongoing role as a community and cultural landmark. Alexandra also reflects on preservation, stewardship, and her vision for O’Donnell’s future.

Palm Springs History: How O’Donnell Golf Club Shaped the Desert City

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Bennett Cerf helped transform American publishing while becoming a cultural figure in his own right. Author Gayle Feldman explores the Random House cofounder’s remarkable life, from his relationships with some of the twentieth century’s most influential writers to the landmark Ulysses censorship case and his place at the intersection of publishing, television, Hollywood, Broadway, and American culture.Key Topics<ul><li>Bennett Cerf and the founding of Random House</li><li>The transformation of American publishing in the twentieth century</li><li>Cerf’s relationships with Truman Capote, Gertrude Stein, Ayn Rand, Dr. Seuss, and other writers</li><li>The Ulysses censorship case and freedom of expression</li><li>Cerf’s friendships and connections across publishing and popular culture</li><li>His television fame on What’s My Line?</li><li>The cultural influence and legacy of Random House</li></ul>Guest BioGayle Feldman is an author and longtime publishing journalist whose work has appeared in Publishers Weekly, The Bookseller, The New York Times, and other publications. She is the author of Nothing Random: Bennett Cerf and the Publishing House He Built, the result of more than twenty-three years of research and more than 200 interviews.Connect with Gayle: <a href="http://www.gaylefeldman.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a>Nothing Random: <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781400060276" rel="nofollow">Hardcover</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9780593978375" rel="nofollow">Ebook</a> | <a href="https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/48744/nothing-random-by-gayle-feldman/" rel="nofollow">Penguin Random House</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Author Gayle Feldman joins Holley to discuss Nothing Random: Bennett Cerf and the Publishing House He Built and the life of the Random House cofounder who helped shape twentieth century American culture. Together, they explore Cerf’s rise in publishing, his role in the landmark Ulysses censorship case, his relationships with writers including Truman Capote and Dr. Seuss, and the broader cultural world of books, Broadway, Hollywood, television, and politics that he moved through during the American Century.

The Making of Modern Publishing: Bennett Cerf, Random House, and the Rise of a Literary Empire

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The American Revolution was not simply a war fought within the Thirteen Colonies. Author Derek Baxter explores the Revolution as a global conflict, tracing battles and alliances across Europe, the Caribbean, India, and beyond and revealing how international support helped make American independence possible.Key Topics<ul><li>The American Revolution as a global conflict</li><li>The crucial roles of France and Spain</li><li>Cuba’s connection to the victory at Yorktown</li><li>Revolutionary-era conflict in the Caribbean, Europe, and India</li><li>The international alliances that supported American independence</li><li>Why the global dimensions of the Revolution faded from popular memory</li><li>Visiting historic sites connected to the Revolution around the world</li></ul>Guest BioDerek Baxter is a writer whose work combines history with travel and firsthand exploration of historic places. He is the author of In Pursuit of Jefferson: Traveling through Europe with the Most Perplexing Founding Father and The Forgotten World War: Exploring the Secret History of the American Revolution, from Spain to India and Back Again.Connect with Derek: <a href="https://www.jeffersontravels.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.instagram.com/derekjbaxter/" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a> | <a href="https://www.facebook.com/jeffersontravels/" rel="nofollow">Facebook</a>The Forgotten World War: <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781464238925" rel="nofollow">Hardcover</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781464238932" rel="nofollow">Ebook</a> | <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Forgotten-World-War-Exploring-Revolution/dp/1464238928/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0" rel="nofollow">Amazon</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Writer Derek Baxter joins Holley to discuss *The Forgotten World War: The American Revolution as a Global Conflict* and the international story behind America’s founding. Together, they explore how the Revolutionary War extended far beyond the Thirteen Colonies, involving battles and alliances across Europe, the Caribbean, and India. The conversation highlights the role of foreign allies such as France and Spain, the overlooked contributions of Cuba to the victory at Yorktown, and how viewing the Revolution as a global conflict changes the way we understand American independence.

The Forgotten World War: The Global Story of the American Revolution

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Behind Minnie Pearl’s trademark hat, price tag, and cheerful “Howdy!” was Sarah Cannon, a savvy performer who carefully created one of country music’s most enduring characters. Historian Mary Ellen Pethel explores Cannon’s journey to the Grand Ole Opry, the woman behind Minnie Pearl, and the lasting influence she had on country music, comedy, and Nashville’s cultural history.Key Topics<ul><li>Sarah Cannon and the creation of Minnie Pearl</li><li>Minnie Pearl’s rise to fame at the Grand Ole Opry</li><li>The differences between Sarah Cannon and her famous persona</li><li>Myths and misconceptions surrounding Minnie’s career</li><li>Women, comedy, and country music</li><li>Minnie Pearl’s influence on Nashville and later generations of performers</li><li>Preserving Nashville history through Nashville Sites and public history</li></ul>Guest BioMary Ellen Pethel is an author, historian, and educator at Belmont University and executive director of Nashville Sites, a digital public history platform exploring the city’s past. She is the author of six books and co-author, with Don Cusic, of Howdy! The Minnie Pearl Story, a biography of Sarah Cannon and the remarkable career she created as Minnie Pearl.Connect with Mary Ellen: <a href="https://nashvillesites.org/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.instagram.com/drpethel/" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/mary-ellen-pethel/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Howdy! The Minnie Pearl Story: <a href="https://utpress.org/9798895270585/howdy/" rel="nofollow">The University of Tennessee Press</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9798895270585" rel="nofollow">Hardcover</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9798895270592" rel="nofollow">Ebook</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Author, historian, and educator Mary Ellen Pethel joins Holley to explore the life and legacy of Minnie Pearl, the woman behind one of country music’s most beloved personas. Together, they discuss Sarah Cannon’s rise to Grand Ole Opry icon, her influence beyond comedy, and why she deserves to be understood as a cultural force. Mary Ellen also shares insights from her work with Nashville Sites and reflects on how public history can uncover overlooked stories and deepen our understanding of place, memory, and women’s leadership.

Minnie Pearl and the Hidden History of Nashville: Country Music, Culture, and Legacy

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Vincent van Gogh is often remembered as the isolated, misunderstood artist whose genius was recognized only after his death, but his legacy did not emerge on its own. Author Joan Fernandez explores the remarkable role of Jo van Gogh-Bonger in preserving and promoting Vincent’s work, challenging familiar myths and revealing how her persistence, strategy, and storytelling helped transform him into one of the world’s most recognizable artists.Key Topics<ul><li>Jo van Gogh-Bonger’s role in building Vincent van Gogh’s legacy</li><li>Challenging the myth of the isolated “mad genius”</li><li>Preserving and promoting Vincent’s art after his death</li><li>Jo’s life as a widow, mother, and advocate for Vincent’s work</li><li>Strategy, storytelling, and the creation of an artistic legacy</li><li>Recovering overlooked women from the historical record</li><li>Balancing historical evidence and imagination in historical fiction</li></ul>Guest BioJoan Fernandez is a historical fiction author and speaker whose work explores the intersection of history, storytelling, and marketing. Drawing on three decades of experience in corporate marketing, she is the author of Saving Vincent: A Novel of Jo van Gogh, which explores Jo van Gogh-Bonger’s role in preserving and building Vincent van Gogh’s legacy. She also writes the Substack Digging In with Joan Fernandez.Connect with Joan: <a href="https://www.joanfernandezauthor.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.facebook.com/joanferndzauthor" rel="nofollow">Facebook</a> | <a href="https://www.instagram.com/joanfernandezauthor/" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/joan-fernandez/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a> | <a href="https://joanfernandez.substack.com/" rel="nofollow">Substack</a>Saving Vincent: <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781647428709" rel="nofollow">Paperback</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781647428716" rel="nofollow">Ebook</a> | <a href="https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Saving-Vincent/Joan-Fernandez/9781647428709" rel="nofollow">Simon &amp; Schuster</a>Books Mentioned: Heroines of Mercy Street by Pamela Toler <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9780316392068" rel="nofollow">Paperback</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9780316392051" rel="nofollow">Ebook</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Historical fiction author and speaker Joan Fernandez joins Holley to explore the untold story of Jo van Gogh-Bonger and the making of Vincent van Gogh’s legacy. Together, they challenge the myth of the isolated “mad genius” and reveal how Jo’s strategy, resilience, and belief in Vincent’s work transformed him into a global icon. They also discuss how storytelling, branding, and influence shaped his reputation, and what it means to write history with integrity.

Jo van Gogh and Vincent van Gogh: The Woman Who Built an Artist’s Legacy

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Objects can reveal dimensions of the past that written records alone cannot always capture. Public historian Laura Smith explores the power of material culture, how everyday artifacts can illuminate overlooked histories, and the ways museums use objects to encourage observation, conversation, and deeper connections with the people who came before us.Key Topics<ul><li>Material culture as a tool for understanding history</li><li>What everyday objects can reveal about the past</li><li>Learning how to “read” historical objects</li><li>Using artifacts to uncover overlooked stories</li><li>The emotional and human connections created by physical objects</li><li>How museums use collections to encourage conversation and reflection</li><li>Material culture at Woodlawn &amp; Pope-Leighey House</li></ul>Guest BioLaura Smith is a public historian whose work focuses on using material culture to encourage observation, conversation, and connection with the past. She serves as Program and Collections Assistant at Woodlawn &amp; Pope-Leighey House and as Vice Chair of the Manassas Historic Resources Board. She also contributes to the field through independent historical writing.Books Mentioned: History Through Material Culture by Leonie Hannan and Sarah Longair <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781784991265" rel="nofollow">Paperback</a>Connect with Laura: <a href="https://www.instagram.com/thecabinetofcuriosity1/" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/laura-e-smith1/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a> | <a href="https://lauraesmith2.substack.com/?utm_campaign=reader2&utm_medium=reader2&utm_source=%2Fsearch%2Fthecabinetofcuriosity" rel="nofollow">Substack</a>Woodlawn and Pope-Leighey House: <a href="https://www.woodlawnpopeleighey.org/" rel="nofollow">Website</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a> Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Laura Smith joins Holley to explore how objects help us understand the past. From museum artifacts to everyday items, they discuss how material culture reveals hidden stories and deepens our connection to history.

Material Culture Explained: How Objects Tell Hidden Histories

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Long before historic preservation became a formal profession, women were leading efforts to save buildings, landscapes, and community histories across America. Public historian Amanda Roper explores women’s often-overlooked role in the preservation movement, from the campaign to save George Washington’s Mount Vernon to the broader ways women have shaped cultural memory and influenced what Americans choose to preserve.Key Topics<ul><li>Women’s role in the history of historic preservation</li><li>The women who helped save George Washington’s Mount Vernon</li><li>Preservation efforts before the field became professionalized</li><li>Historic places as keepers of cultural memory and identity</li><li>How preservation shapes the stories Americans remember</li><li>Recovering underrepresented voices in public history</li><li>The evolving role of women in preservation</li></ul>Guest BioAmanda Roper is a public historian whose work focuses on historic preservation and underrepresented stories in American history. She has worked with institutions including the National Park Service, Smithsonian Institution, and National Trust for Historic Preservation and is a 2025–2026 Research Fellow at the George Washington Presidential Library at Mount Vernon. She is currently researching and writing Saving America’s Past: Women in Preservation, a history of women’s contributions to the American preservation movement.Books Mentioned: Black Majority by Peter Wood <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781324066200" rel="nofollow">Paperback</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781324086741" rel="nofollow">Ebook</a>Connect with Amanda: <a href="https://amandahroper.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.instagram.com/amandahroper" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/amanda-roper-36559592" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn </a> Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Public historian Amanda Roper joins Holley to explore the vital and often overlooked role of women in historic preservation. From Mount Vernon to Manzanar, they discuss how women have helped save America’s historic places, why preservation matters beyond buildings, and how communities can play a role in protecting their own stories.

Women in Historic Preservation: Saving America’s Landmarks and Legacy

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Julius Caesar’s rise transformed Rome and helped bring centuries of republican government to an end. Professor Phil Mathew explores Caesar’s military leadership and political ambition, the importance of loyalty and intelligence in his campaigns, and how ancient sources have shaped the line between the historical Caesar and the legend that followed him.Key Topics<ul><li>Julius Caesar’s rise to military and political power</li><li>The forces contributing to the fall of the Roman Republic</li><li>Caesar’s leadership and relationship with his soldiers</li><li>Military intelligence and strategy during the Gallic War</li><li>Loyalty, ambition, and power in ancient Rome</li><li>Separating myth from historical evidence in ancient sources</li><li>Caesar’s legacy and the transformation of the Roman world</li></ul>Guest BioPhil Mathew is a professor of history at Joliet Junior College specializing in the military and political history of Ancient Greece and Rome. His research interests include warfare and society, relationships between soldiers and commanders, and intelligence gathering in the Roman army. His graduate research at Norwich University examined Julius Caesar’s use of military intelligence during the Gallic War.Books Mentioned: Caesar: Life of a Colossus by Adrian Goldsworthy <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9780300126891" rel="nofollow">Paperback</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9780300139198" rel="nofollow">Ebook</a>Connect with Phil: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/phil-mathew-72270171/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Professor Phil Mathew joins Holley to explore the life and legacy of Julius Caesar and the fall of the Roman Republic. Together, they discuss how military strategy, leadership, and political ambition shaped Caesar’s rise, and what his story reveals about power and the fragility of political systems.

Julius Caesar Explained: The Fall of the Roman Republic and the Rise of Empire

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Classic Hollywood may belong to another era, but its films continue to shape how we think about gender, celebrity, culture, and society. Writer and cultural critic Simone O. Elias explores the bold storytelling of the Pre-Code era, actresses such as Judy Holliday and Joan Blondell, and why a new generation continues to find meaning in films made decades before they were born.Key Topics<ul><li>Why Classic Hollywood continues to resonate with younger audiences</li><li>The freedom and bold storytelling of the Pre-Code era</li><li>Women and changing gender roles on screen</li><li>Judy Holliday, Joan Blondell, and other distinctive Hollywood women</li><li>How classic films addressed social and cultural issues</li><li>Connections between Golden Age Hollywood and modern popular culture</li><li>Viewing film history through a Gen Z perspective</li></ul>Guest BioSimone O. Elias is a writer and cultural critic whose work explores Classic Hollywood, feminism, mental health, and Jewish identity. Her work has appeared on Turner Classic Movies and in Psychology Today, The Forward, and the San Francisco Chronicle. She is the author of Old Films, Young Eyes, which examines Classic Hollywood and its continuing influence on contemporary culture.Connect with Simone: <a href="https://simoneoelias.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.instagram.com/simoneoelias" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a> | <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@simoneoelias" rel="nofollow">YouTube</a>Old Films, Young Eyes: <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781476696591" rel="nofollow">Bookshop</a> | <a href="https://mcfarlandbooks.com/product/old-films-young-eyes/?srsltid=AfmBOorpnE4rH9iIfZh_65Pb8N1xY3uZs9tm3RR0UCbXOrp_IpYvs_W4" rel="nofollow">McFarland</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a> Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Writer and cultural critic Simone O. Elias joins Holley to discuss the enduring relevance of classic Hollywood, from the bold storytelling of the Pre-Code era to the portrayal of women on screen. They explore how these films continue to shape modern culture and resonate with new generations.

Classic Hollywood Films Explained: Why They Still Matter Today

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Civics education is increasingly about more than memorizing the branches of government or dates in a textbook. Educator Keith Pakela explores how students are learning to think critically about democracy and the political system, the gaps teachers see in civic understanding, and how new technologies such as AI are changing the classroom.Key Topics<ul><li>How civics and government are taught today</li><li>Moving from memorization toward critical thinking</li><li>What students understand about democracy and the political system</li><li>Gaps in civic knowledge among young people</li><li>Creating space for productive classroom discussions</li><li>Teaching students how to think rather than what to think</li><li>The opportunities and challenges of AI in education</li></ul>Guest BioKeith Pakela is an educator who teaches government and civics at both the high school and college levels. An AP Government teacher and adjunct professor, his work focuses on helping students develop a stronger understanding of American government, democracy, and civic engagement.Connect with Keith: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/keithpakela/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Books Mentioned: Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9780743270755" rel="nofollow">Paperback</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781416549833" rel="nofollow">Ebook</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9780684824901" rel="nofollow">Hardcover</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a> Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Educator and historian Keith Pakela joins Holley to discuss how civics and history are being taught in today’s classrooms and why the focus is shifting from memorization to critical thinking. They explore how students understand democracy, the questions they are asking about the political system, and the role of discussion in shaping civic awareness. Keith also reflects on the impact of AI on education and why learning how to think is more important than ever in a rapidly changing world.

Teaching Critical Thinking: How Students Learn to Think, Not Just Memorize

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Anna May Wong became Hollywood’s first Asian American movie star, achieving international fame while confronting an industry that repeatedly confined her to stereotypes. Author Katie Gee Salisbury explores Wong’s rise during the Jazz Age, her decision to seek greater opportunities in Europe, and how she challenged Hollywood’s expectations while forging a career that continues to shape conversations about representation today.Key Topics<ul><li>Anna May Wong’s rise in early Hollywood</li><li>Asian American representation during Hollywood’s Golden Age</li><li>The stereotypes and roles that limited Wong’s career</li><li>Her decision to leave Hollywood for Europe</li><li>Wong’s international career and celebrity</li><li>Challenging myths surrounding her life and legacy</li><li>Her lasting influence on Asian American performers and representation</li></ul>Guest BioKatie Gee Salisbury is the author of Not Your China Doll, a biography of pioneering actress Anna May Wong. Her writing has appeared in The New York Times, Vanity Fair, The Believer, and other publications, and she delivered the TED Talk “As American as Chop Suey.” A fifth-generation Chinese American originally from Southern California, her work explores Asian American history, identity, and representation.Connect with Katie: <a href="https://www.notyourchinadoll.com/" rel="nofollow">Book Website</a> | <a href="https://www.katiegeesalisbury.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.instagram.com/kayteesal" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a> | <a href="https://www.instagram.com/annamaywongbook/" rel="nofollow">Anna May Wong Book Instagram</a> | <a href="https://bsky.app/profile/kayteesal.bsky.social" rel="nofollow">Bluesky</a> | <a href="https://halfcastewoman.substack.com/" rel="nofollow">Half-Caste Woman Substack</a>Not Your China Doll: <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9780593183984" rel="nofollow">Hardcover</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9780593183991" rel="nofollow">Ebook</a> | <a href="https://www.notyourchinadoll.com/#buybook" rel="nofollow">Website</a>Recommended Films: Song (1928)Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Author Katie Gee Salisbury joins Holley to explore the life and legacy of Anna May Wong, Hollywood’s first Asian American movie star. They discuss Wong’s rise during the Jazz Age, the limitations she faced in early Hollywood, and her decision to leave for Europe in search of greater creative freedom. Katie also examines the myths surrounding Wong’s life, the challenges of representation on screen, and why her story remains so relevant today.

Anna May Wong and Early Hollywood: Race, Representation, and Asian American History

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/3/30/0/a881de32-0a98-4f4c-8c27-f61ad41e9ad1_holley_and_abby_conversation.mp3

The fighter ace became one of the most enduring heroic figures to emerge from World War I, but these legends often obscured more complicated human stories. Historian Abby Whitlock explores how pilots such as Arthur Rhys Davids were transformed into symbols of heroism, and how class, media, masculinity, and national identity shaped who was remembered and how their stories were told.Key Topics<ul><li>The creation of the World War I fighter ace myth</li><li>Arthur Rhys Davids and the making of a wartime hero</li><li>Media and propaganda in shaping public perceptions of aviators</li><li>Social class and whose stories were remembered</li><li>Masculinity and national identity during World War I</li><li>Morale, mental health, and the experiences behind heroic narratives</li><li>How the image of the fighter pilot evolved after the war</li></ul>Guest BioAbby Whitlock is a historian, writer, and cultural heritage professional specializing in First World War aviation and its cultural legacy. Her research examines the fighter pilot archetype, mental health, and the transformation of individuals into national symbols. She has presented her work for organizations including the Royal Air Force Museum, Society for Military History, and Great War Aviation Society.Books Mentioned: Käte &amp; the Red Baron: Käte Oltersdorf &amp; Manfred von Richthofen – Her “Restless Patient” by Lance J Bronnenkant PhD and Reinhard Schröder Oberst <a href="https://www.amazon.com/K%C3%A4te-Red-Baron-Oltersdorf-Richthofen/dp/196463735X" rel="nofollow">Amazon</a>Connect with Abby: <a href="https://www.abby-s-whitlock.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://bsky.app/profile/abbyswhitlock.bsky.social" rel="nofollow">Bluesky</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/abby-s-whitlock/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>  Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Historian and cultural heritage professional Abby Whitlock joins Holley to explore the myth of the World War I fighter ace. Together, they discuss how wartime heroes were shaped by media, class, and culture—and what these stories reveal about memory, masculinity, and the human realities behind the legend.

World War I Fighter Aces: Myth vs Reality in Early Air Combat

From unsung trailblazers to cultural icons, Say It with History explores how the past shapes the stories we tell—and the lives we lead. Hosted by historian and writer Holley Snaith, each episode highlights people and topics from history, offering engaging, insightful, and often surprising journeys through time. Whether you’re a lifelong history lover or just curious about the stories behind the past, this show brings history to life in fresh and meaningful ways.