From unsung trailblazers to cultural icons, Say It with History explores how the past shapes the stories we tell—and the lives we lead. Hosted by historian Holley Snaith, who has worked at two presidential libraries, a nonprofit honoring a beloved First Lady, and published numerous pieces on influential historical figures, each episode offers engaging, insightful, and often surprising journeys through time. Whether you’re a lifelong history lover or simply curious about the stories behind the past, this show brings history to life in fresh and meaningful ways.

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Author Lesley L. Coffin joins Holley to explore the life and legacy of Lew Ayres, a lesser known yet fascinating figure in classic Hollywood. Together, they discuss Lesley’s newly reprinted book Lew Ayres: Hollywood’s Conscientious Objector, tracing his rise to fame in All Quiet on the Western Front and the ways that role shaped both his career and public image. They also examine the misconceptions surrounding his decision to become a conscientious objector during World War II, the insights revealed through his letters and unpublished writings, and his deep intellectual and spiritual curiosity, including the documentary he considered his most important work. Lesley reflects on the challenges of writing against established narratives and what Ayres’s story reveals about celebrity, public perception, and the enduring power of myth in popular culture.Lesley Coffin BiographyLesley L. Coffin is a film scholar with a master’s degree in star studies from New York University. In addition to her work online as a journalist, interviewer, and critic, she is author of Hitchcock’s Stars: Alfred Hitchcock and the Hollywood Studio System and Lew Ayres: Hollywood’s Conscientious Objector, the latter published by University Press of Mississippi.About Lew Ayres: Hollywood’s Conscientious ObjectorLew Ayres (1908–1996) became known to the public when he portrayed the leading character in the epic war film All Quiet on the Western Front. The role made him a household name, introduced him to his closest friends, brought him to the attention of his first two wives, and would ultimately overshadow the rest of his career. Becoming a movie star had been his first and only ambition as a child, but once he achieved it, he was never fully satisfied with his choice of profession. Although lacking a formal education, Ayres spent the rest of his life pursuing a wide range of intellectual studies, interests, and hobbies. He even considered ending his acting career after just a few years to pursue what he saw as a more “respectable and fulfilling” path as a director.Ayres was given not one but two comeback opportunities, in 1938 and 1945. He was cast in the Dr. Kildare film series, where he demonstrated both his skill in comedy and his unique ability to bring sincerity to even the most outlandish or idealistic characters. Yet he was willing to give up his star status to follow his moral compass—first as a conscientious objector and ultimately as a noncombat medic during World War II. To the surprise of many, he was welcomed back to Hollywood with open arms and offered new opportunities despite his objector status.Connect with Lesley: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesley-l-coffin-7394668a/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Lew Ayres: Hollywood’s Conscientious Objector: <a href="https://www.upress.state.ms.us/Books/L/Lew-Ayres" rel="nofollow">University Press of Mississippi</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781628469431" rel="nofollow">Bookshop Ebook</a>Books Mentioned: The Stars Appear by Richard Dyer Maccann <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9780810825284" rel="nofollow">Bookshop</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Author Lesley L. Coffin joins Holley to explore the life and legacy of Lew Ayres, a lesser-known yet compelling figure in classic Hollywood. Together, they discuss her newly reprinted book Lew Ayres: Hollywood’s Conscientious Objector, tracing his rise to fame in All Quiet on the Western Front and the ways that role shaped his public image.

They also examine the misconceptions surrounding his decision to become a conscientious objector during World War II, the insights revealed through his letters and unpublished writings, and what his story tells us about celebrity, public perception, and the making of cultural myths.

The Myth of the Hollywood War Hero: Lew Ayres, Conscience, and World War II with Lesley Coffin

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Historian Jenny Chan joins Holley to explore the hidden history of Unit 731 and the role the American government played in the aftermath of World War II. Together, they discuss Japan’s secret biological warfare program, why these wartime atrocities remained largely unknown in the West for decades, and how media narratives shape public memory of the war. Jenny also shares insights from her archival research through Pacific Atrocities Education, highlighting the importance of preserving difficult histories and challenging simplified narratives about World War II.Jenny Chan BiographyJenny Chan is the director of Pacific Atrocities Education (PAE), a nonprofit that researches World War II atrocities in the Asia-Pacific region, such as the invasion of Manchuria, Nanjing Massacre, Unit 731, and the &#34;comfort women&#34; system, through books, videos, and digitized archives, engaging over 800,000 online visitors annually. Under her leadership, PAE&#39;s internship program—offering opportunities in research, community outreach, digital archiving, and oral history—has profoundly shaped participants&#39; careers, with several former interns advancing to become professors and scholars.Connect with Jenny: <a href="http://pacificatrocities.org/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.instagram.com/pacificatrocitiesedu" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a> | <a href="https://www.facebook.com/pacificatrocitieseducation/" rel="nofollow">Facebook</a> | <a href="https://x.com/PacificAtrocit2" rel="nofollow">X</a> | <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@PacificFrontUntold" rel="nofollow">YouTube</a>Books Mentioned: Marutas of Unit 731 by Jenny Chan <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781947766327" rel="nofollow">Paperback</a> Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Historian Jenny Chan joins Holley to explore the hidden history of Unit 731 and the role the American government played in the aftermath of World War II. Together, they discuss Japan’s secret biological warfare program, why these wartime atrocities remained largely unknown in the West for decades, and how media narratives shape public memory of the war. Jenny also shares insights from her archival research and the work of Pacific Atrocities Education
, highlighting the importance of preserving difficult histories and confronting overlooked chapters of World War II history.

Unit 731 and the Cover-Up of Wartime Atrocities: War Crimes and Hidden History with Jenny Chan

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Author and researcher Kelly Lacroix joins Holley to explore the life and legacy of Joe DiMaggio, one of the most iconic and misunderstood figures in American culture. Together, they discuss Joe’s rise from baseball star to cultural symbol, his complicated relationship with fame and the press, and the enduring fascination surrounding his marriage to Marilyn Monroe. Kelly also shares insights from her ongoing Finding Joe DiMaggio project, challenging long-standing myths and offering a more layered perspective on the man behind the legend. Blending sports history, Hollywood history, and cultural memory, this conversation examines how public figures are remembered—and what can emerge when we look beyond the myth.Kelly Lacroix BiographyKelly Lacroix is a French-born researcher and film professional based in the United Kingdom. Trained in European Law, she later pursued a career in film and works as a trailer editor. With a longstanding interest in classic Hollywood cinema, she has spent the past five years researching Joe DiMaggio, exploring the gap between public myth and the man himself. Her work brings a fresh perspective to one of the most iconic and often misunderstood figures of twentieth-century American culture.Connect with Kelly: <a href="https://www.instagram.com/findingjoedimaggio/" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a> | <a href="https://www.threads.com/@findingjoedimaggio" rel="nofollow">Threads</a> | <a href="https://www.facebook.com/p/Finding-Joe-DiMaggio-61576671495770/" rel="nofollow">Facebook</a>Items from the Estate of Joe DiMaggio—Hunt Auction House: <a href="https://huntauctions.com/live/select_lot_closed_online.cfm?auction=27" rel="nofollow">View Lots</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Author and researcher Kelly Lacroix joins Holley to explore the life and legacy of Joe DiMaggio, one of the most iconic and misunderstood figures in American culture. Together, they discuss Joe’s rise from baseball star to cultural symbol, his complicated relationship with fame and the press, and the enduring fascination surrounding his marriage to Marilyn Monroe. Kelly also shares insights from her ongoing Finding Joe DiMaggio project, challenging long-standing myths and offering a more layered perspective on the man behind the legend. Blending sports history, Hollywood history, and cultural memory, this conversation examines how public figures are remembered—and what can emerge when we look beyond the myth.

The Man Behind the Legend: Joe DiMaggio, Fame, and American Memory with Kelly Lacroix

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Research librarian and historian Samantha Snyder joins Holley Snaith to explore the life and influence of Elizabeth Willing Powel, one of the most fascinating yet overlooked women of the American founding. Together, they discuss Powel’s role within the political and social world of early Philadelphia, her relationships with figures such as George Washington and John Adams, and the ways women shaped political culture through conversation, correspondence, hospitality, and social networks. Samantha also shares insights from her forthcoming book, A Remarkable Woman: Elizabeth Willing Powel and the Founding of the American Republic, challenging long-standing misconceptions and offering a fresh perspective on women’s influence during the founding era.Samantha Snyder BiographySamantha Snyder is a Research Librarian at the George Washington Presidential Library at Mount Vernon. She first encountered Elizabeth Willing Powel through George Washington’s papers and has spent nearly a decade researching her life, bringing together archival research, public history, and narrative biography to recover one of the most compelling women of the founding era.About Samantha’s Forthcoming Book, A Remarkable Woman: Elizabeth Willing Powel and the Founding of the American RepublicThis vivid, deeply researched biography places Elizabeth Willing Powel at the center of the American founding, revealing her as a political influencer, astute businesswoman, and a key figure in shaping elite Philadelphia society. Through rich archival detail and compelling narrative, the book challenges long-held assumptions and restores Powel’s place as an essential voice in the early republic.Connect with Samantha: <a href="https://www.samanthalsnyder.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.instagram.com/sam.snyder/" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/samantha-snyder-31267b31/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Research librarian and historian Samantha Snyder joins Holley to explore the life and influence of Elizabeth Willing Powel, one of the most overlooked women of the American founding. Together, they discuss Powel’s relationships with figures such as George Washington, the role of women in shaping political culture in the eighteenth century, and how influence operated through conversation, correspondence, and social networks. Samantha also shares insights from her forthcoming book, A Remarkable Woman: Elizabeth Willing Powel and the Founding of the American Republic, offering a fresh perspective on power and legacy in early America.

The Power Behind the American Founding: Elizabeth Willing Powel and Women’s Influence in Early America with Samantha Snyder

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Author and film historian Anthony Uzarowski joins Holley to explore the life and legacy of Lauren Bacall through his book Lauren Bacall: The Queen of Cool. Together, they discuss Bacall’s rise to fame, the image that defined her, and the career she built beyond her relationship with Humphrey Bogart. The conversation also highlights her longevity in Hollywood, the challenges she faced as an actress over time, and the deeper personal and cultural dimensions of her story, offering a fresh perspective on a true icon of the golden age.Anthony Uzarowski BiographyAnthony Uzarowski is a film historian and author. His books include the acclaimed biographies Jessica Lange: An Adventurer’s Heart and Ava Gardner: A Life in Movies. He has also written numerous articles on cinema and the arts, with his work appearing in publications such as The Guardian, Turner Classic Movies, Film International, Gay Times, and more.About Lauren Bacall: The Queen of CoolLauren Bacall (1924–2014), or Betty, as she was known to friends, was one of the last great movie stars of the Golden Age of Hollywood. Her career spanned seven decades and was one of the longest and most distinguished in the history of show business. Yet it was not without its challenges. After becoming a star at nineteen with her first film, To Have and Have Not (1944), she joked there was nowhere for her to go but down. She became an icon of film noir before the term was even coined. A cool, sophisticated, sexy, and ultramodern woman, she projected confidence and independence.Lauren Bacall: The Queen of Cool is the first book to bring together all aspects of the legendary star’s life and career, exploring her iconic style, her extensive body of work, and her friendships and relationships with some of the most famous figures of the twentieth century. Her relationship with Humphrey Bogart is the stuff of legend—the most beloved pairing of classical Hollywood, a perfect blend of romance, glamour, and cinematic glory. When Bogart died in 1957, Bacall was just thirty-three years old, and for the rest of her life she wrestled with the legend of her late husband, striving to prove to the industry that she was more than the most famous widow in Hollywood. She ultimately succeeded, becoming a two-time Tony Award–winning Broadway star and bestselling author, and continuing a successful, though at times rocky, screen career that brought her an Academy Award nomination in 1996 and an Honorary Oscar in 2009. Combining meticulous research with stunning photographs, author Anthony Uzarowski presents a multidimensional portrait of both the woman and the star that was Lauren Bacall.Connect with Anthony: <a href="https://www.instagram.com/anthonyuzarowski/" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>Lauren Bacall: The Queen of Cool: <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781496838834" rel="nofollow">Hardcover</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781496861108" rel="nofollow">Ebook</a> | <a href="https://www.upress.state.ms.us/Books/L/Lauren-Bacall" rel="nofollow">University Press of Mississippi</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Author and film historian Anthony Uzarowski joins Holley to discuss his book Lauren Bacall: The Queen of Cool and the life and legacy of Lauren Bacall. They explore Bacall’s rise to fame, the image that defined her, and the career she built beyond her relationship with Humphrey Bogart. This episode offers a fresh look at Bacall’s longevity in Hollywood, the challenges she faced, and the legacy she created on her own terms.

Lauren Bacall: The Making of a Hollywood Legend with Anthony Uzarowski

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Author Ben Robinson joins Holley to explore the power of family history and the stories hidden within letters, photographs, and archival records. Together, they discuss the journey of turning Ben’s great-grandmother Charlotte’s life into Finding Charlotte, a sweeping family saga shaped by war, resilience, and survival across the twentieth century. They also examine the importance of moving beyond names and dates to uncover fuller, more human stories of the past, the role of women’s voices in family history, and the connections between past and present. Ben reflects on the emotional impact of preserving overlooked stories and the research process that brought his family’s history to life.Ben Robinson BiographyBen Robinson is a writer, educator, and the author of the part-fictionalized historical memoir novel Finding Charlotte.He grew up in Scarborough, England, and has lived across Yorkshire before settling in Newcastle upon Tyne. Drawing on a rich collection of family letters and photographs, Robinson crafted Finding Charlotte, a sweeping family saga that spans more than a century and explores the realities of wartime during one of the most transformative periods in modern history.In recent years, he has channeled his passion for family history into this deeply personal project. Robinson has also written for UK-based publications including NARC Magazine and RADGE Magazine and currently serves as a columnist for York-based Your Local Link Magazine. Finding Charlotte is available internationally for readers interested in history and storytelling.About Finding CharlotteFinding Charlotte is a part-fictionalized historical memoir and the debut novel of Northern writer Ben Robinson.The book follows Charlotte Smith, the author’s great-grandmother, and those around her as they navigate a tumultuous and war-torn era in European history, including both World War I and World War II.Drawing on more than 100 documents and letters from archives and Charlotte’s personal collections, the narrative blends historical memoir with elements of fiction to bring these lives vividly to the page.From Charlotte’s parents to her sisters and wider circle, Finding Charlotte unfolds as a sweeping family saga, revealing not just one life, but the shared experiences of a family shaped by an era that transformed the modern world.Centered in Yorkshire during the first half of the twentieth century, the story also extends beyond England, tracing experiences in London and Norfolk as well as international settings including New Zealand, Myanmar, and Singapore.Connect with Ben: <a href="https://www.instagram.com/benrobinson137/" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>Finding Charlotte: <a href="https://www.booksamillion.com/p/Finding-Charlotte/Ben-Robinson/9781036964702" rel="nofollow">Books-A-Million</a> | <a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/1036964701?channelId=500&lv=shuf&plpRedirect=mhFallback" rel="nofollow">Amazon</a>Shows Mentioned: The Narrow Road to the Deep North (2025)Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Author Ben Robinson joins Holley to discuss the power of family history and the stories hidden within letters, photographs, and archival records. Together, they explore the journey of turning Ben’s great-grandmother Charlotte’s life into Finding Charlotte, a sweeping family saga shaped by war, resilience, and survival. They also examine why family history is about more than names and dates, the importance of preserving women’s voices, and the ways the past continues to shape the present.

Family History Research: How Documents and Archives Reveal the Past with Ben Robinson

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Author and history speaker Kathryn Smith joins Holley to explore the life and legacy of Marguerite “Missy” LeHand and the overlooked women who shaped power behind the presidency. Together, they discuss Kathryn’s book The Gatekeeper: Missy LeHand, FDR, and the Partnership that Defined a Presidency, the misconceptions surrounding Missy’s role in the Roosevelt White House, the significance of Warm Springs, and the parallels between Missy and Martha Washington as influential women working behind the scenes of history. Kathryn also reflects on portraying both women in performance and why history can be surprising, entertaining, and deeply human.Kathryn Smith BiographyKathryn Smith is a journalist who turned her writing talents to history after careers as a newspaper editor and nonprofit leader. Her book The Gatekeeper: Missy LeHand, FDR, and the Partnership that Defined a Presidency was published by a Simon &amp; Schuster imprint in 2016. She followed this with Gertie, a biography of South Carolina adventuress Gertrude Sanford Legendre, as well as two books on Prohibition in the South, Baptists and Bootleggers and Methodists and Moonshiners. Kathryn publishes daily on Substack at bootleggers.substack.com, focusing on personal diaries from the 1920s, 1930s, and 1940s and the history of that era. She also co-authors the Missy LeHand Mystery series with Kelly Durham.The Gatekeeper: <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781501114977" rel="nofollow">Paperback</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781501114984" rel="nofollow">Ebook</a>Connect with Kathryn: <a href="https://margueritelehand.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.facebook.com/margueritelehand" rel="nofollow">Facebook</a> | <a href="https://bootleggers.substack.com/" rel="nofollow">Substack</a>Explore Kathryn’s Other Works: <a href="https://www.eveningpostbooks.com/blogs/news/author-kathryn-smith-on-cocktails-her-career-and" rel="nofollow">Evening Post Books</a>Books Mentioned: The Washingtons by Flora Fraser <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9780307474438" rel="nofollow">Paperback</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781101875858" rel="nofollow">Ebook</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Author and history speaker Kathryn Smith joins Holley to discuss the life and legacy of Marguerite “Missy” LeHand and the overlooked women who shaped power behind the presidency. They explore Kathryn’s book The Gatekeeper, the misconceptions surrounding Missy’s role in the Roosevelt White House, the importance of Warm Springs, and the parallels between Missy and Martha Washington as influential women working behind the scenes of history. Kathryn also shares why history can be surprising, entertaining, and deeply human.

The Power Behind the Presidency: Missy LeHand and Martha Washington with Kathryn Smith

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Alexandra Phillips, MBA, PGA, CMAA, joins Holley to explore the remarkable history of O’Donnell Golf Club and its role in shaping Palm Springs and the Coachella Valley. Founded in 1929, O’Donnell is one of only three nationally historically designated golf courses in the United States and has been connected to figures including Gene Sarazen, Bob Hope, and Harold Matzner. Together, they discuss the rise of golf culture in Palm Springs, the history behind Inspiration Point and the Easter Sunrise tradition, and the club’s ongoing role as a community and cultural landmark. Alexandra also reflects on stewardship, preservation, and her vision for O’Donnell’s future as a historic space at the heart of Palm Springs.Alexandra Phillips, MBA, PGA, CMAA BiographyAlexandra Phillips serves as the General Manager of the historic O’Donnell Golf Club in downtown Palm Springs. Founded in 1929, O’Donnell is the oldest golf club in the Coachella Valley, blending a rich legacy with a dynamic and evolving membership experience. Alexandra leads the club with a deep respect for its history and a clear vision for its future.A former professional golfer, Alexandra began her career competing at a high level, gaining a lifelong understanding of the game from the player’s perspective. She later returned to academia to earn her MBA, combining executive-level business training with her PGA professional credentials to shape the business side of the sport.Today, Alexandra is the only female country club General Manager in the United States to hold both an MBA and PGA designation—an achievement that reflects her commitment to leadership, innovation, and the continued evolution of the club industry.Connect with O’Donnell Golf Club: <a href="https://www.odonnellgolfclub.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.instagram.com/theodonnellgolfclub/" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Alexandra Phillips, MBA, PGA, CMAA, joins Holley to explore the history of O’Donnell Golf Club and its lasting connection to Palm Springs and the Coachella Valley. Founded in 1929, O’Donnell is one of only three nationally historically designated golf courses in the United States and has been connected to figures including Gene Sarazen, Bob Hope, and Harold Matzner. Together, they discuss the rise of golf culture in Palm Springs, the history behind Inspiration Point and the Easter Sunrise tradition, and the club’s ongoing role as a community and cultural landmark. Alexandra also reflects on preservation, stewardship, and her vision for O’Donnell’s future.

Palm Springs History: How O’Donnell Golf Club Shaped the Desert City with Alexandra Phillips

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Author Gayle Feldman joins Holley to discuss Nothing Random: Bennett Cerf and the Publishing House He Built and the life of the Random House cofounder who helped shape twentieth century American culture. Together, they explore Cerf’s rise in publishing, his relationships with writers including Truman Capote, Gertrude Stein, Ayn Rand, and Dr. Seuss, and his role in the landmark Ulysses censorship case that expanded free expression in America. The conversation also looks at Cerf’s friendships with cultural figures like Frank Sinatra and the broader world of books, Broadway, Hollywood, television, and politics that he moved through during the height of the American Century.Gayle Feldman BiographyGayle Feldman has written for Publishers Weekly for over forty years. Since 1999, she has served as the U.S. correspondent for The Bookseller, where she analyzes the American book industry for U.K. readers. Her work has also appeared in The New York Times, The Times of London, The Nation, and other publications.She is the author of the memoir You Don’t Have to Be Your Mother (W.W. Norton) and Best and Worst of Times: The Changing Business of Trade Books, developed through a Columbia Journalism School fellowship. Her latest work, Nothing Random: Bennett Cerf and the Publishing House He Built, was supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Public Scholar award and represents more than twenty-three years of research.Feldman lives in New York City.About Nothing Random: Bennett Cerf and the Publishing House He BuiltThis is the story of legendary publisher Bennett Cerf and the Random House he created: an epic cast of characters, a lasting cultural legacy, and a seemingly charmed life at the height of the American Century.By midcentury, everyone knew Bennett Cerf as the witty and beloved panelist on What’s My Line?, a television presence welcomed into homes across the country each week. What they did not see was the ambitious, driven young man of the 1920s who had vowed to become a great publisher and, within a decade, had done just that. By then, he had signed Eugene O’Neill, Gertrude Stein, and William Faulkner, and had fought the landmark censorship case that secured Americans the freedom to read James Joyce’s Ulysses.With his best friend and lifelong business partner Donald Klopfer, along with fellow Jewish publishing pioneers such as the Knopfs and Simon and Schuster, Cerf helped remake the book business—reshaping both what was published and how it reached readers. In 1925, he and Klopfer acquired the Modern Library and transformed it into a cornerstone of American literary culture before founding Random House, which would go on to publish Truman Capote, Ralph Ellison, Ayn Rand, Dr. Seuss, Toni Morrison, and many more.Even before television, Cerf was a bestselling author and columnist as well as a publisher; television only amplified his reach. A gifted networker long before the term existed, he moved fluidly across books, Broadway, Hollywood, television, and politics. A committed democratizer of culture, he published widely—across “high” and “low”—and from the 1920s through the 1960s built an extraordinary circle of friends and collaborators along the way.For four decades, Gayle Feldman has reported on publishing for Publishers Weekly, The New York Times, The Bookseller, and others. Drawing on more than 200 interviews and extensive archival research, she brings Bennett Cerf vividly back to life, immersing readers in his world and offering a long-overdue portrait of a true American original.Connect with Gayle: <a href="http://www.gaylefeldman.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a>Nothing Random: <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781400060276" rel="nofollow">Hardcover</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9780593978375" rel="nofollow">Ebook</a> | <a href="https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/48744/nothing-random-by-gayle-feldman/" rel="nofollow">Penguin Random House</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Author Gayle Feldman joins Holley to discuss Nothing Random: Bennett Cerf and the Publishing House He Built and the life of the Random House cofounder who helped shape twentieth century American culture. Together, they explore Cerf’s rise in publishing, his role in the landmark Ulysses censorship case, his relationships with writers including Truman Capote and Dr. Seuss, and the broader cultural world of books, Broadway, Hollywood, television, and politics that he moved through during the American Century.

The Making of Modern Publishing: Bennett Cerf, Random House, and the Rise of a Literary Empire with Gayle Feldman

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/5/11/23/29fe0239-bd9c-4e66-89a1-dc09ba2d72cb_holley_and_derek_conversation.mp3

Writer Derek Baxter joins Holley to explore the global story behind the American Revolution through his book The Forgotten World War: The American Revolution as a Global Conflict. Together, they discuss how the Revolutionary War extended far beyond the Thirteen Colonies, involving battles, alliances, and political struggles across Europe, the Caribbean, India, and beyond. The conversation highlights the crucial role of foreign allies such as France and Spain, the overlooked contributions of Cuba in supporting the victory at Yorktown, and the ways later histories narrowed what contemporaries understood to be a worldwide conflict. Derek also shares insights from his travels to historic sites connected to the war, offering a broader perspective on America’s founding and the international forces that helped shape it.Derek Baxter BiographyDerek Baxter is the author of In Pursuit of Jefferson: Traveling through Europe with the Most Perplexing Founding Father, in which he recounts his journeys through six countries, armed with a guide written by Jefferson in 1788. This is his second book. He lives with his family in northern Virginia.About The Forgotten World War: Exploring the Secret History of the American Revolution, from Spain to India and Back AgainThe Revolutionary War wasn’t just fought in the Thirteen Colonies—it was a world war, spanning four continents. To discover more, Baxter embarks on an adventure-filled quest across the globe. He finds the human stories behind this long-ago conflict, expanding the universe of those who contributed to the cause, including the French, Spanish, Dutch, Oneida Indians, and Mysore Kingdom of India. And he delivers a powerful message: The United States only exists because peoples of different races, languages, and religions learned how to fight together, writing an unexpected story of independence that continues to resonate and inspire today.Connect with Derek: <a href="https://www.jeffersontravels.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.instagram.com/derekjbaxter/" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a> | <a href="https://www.facebook.com/jeffersontravels/" rel="nofollow">Facebook</a>The Forgotten World War: <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781464238925" rel="nofollow">Hardcover</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781464238932" rel="nofollow">Ebook</a> | <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Forgotten-World-War-Exploring-Revolution/dp/1464238928/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0" rel="nofollow">Amazon</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Writer Derek Baxter joins Holley to discuss *The Forgotten World War: The American Revolution as a Global Conflict* and the international story behind America’s founding. Together, they explore how the Revolutionary War extended far beyond the Thirteen Colonies, involving battles and alliances across Europe, the Caribbean, and India. The conversation highlights the role of foreign allies such as France and Spain, the overlooked contributions of Cuba to the victory at Yorktown, and how viewing the Revolution as a global conflict changes the way we understand American independence.

The Forgotten World War: The Global Story of the American Revolution with Derek Baxter

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/4/19/19/ff8b8486-b64f-414e-bd76-5f46c3af2224_holley_and_mary_ellen_conversation_2.mp3

For the final episode of Season 3 of Say It With History, author, historian, and educator Mary Ellen Pethel joins Holley to explore the life and legacy of Minnie Pearl and the woman behind the beloved persona, Sarah Cannon. Together, they discuss Mary Ellen’s book Howdy! The Minnie Pearl Story, Minnie’s rise from small-town performer to Grand Ole Opry icon, the misconceptions surrounding her career, and the lasting impact she had on country music and Nashville’s cultural landscape. Mary Ellen also shares insights into her work with Nashville Sites and reflects on the power of public history to preserve overlooked stories and connect communities to the past.Mary Ellen Pethel BiographyMary Ellen Pethel is an author, historian, and educator at Belmont University, where she directs the Global Honors Program and leads initiatives connecting academic research with public engagement. An award-winning author of six books, her work focuses on women’s leadership, education, and social change. Her latest book, Howdy! The Minnie Pearl Story, co-authored with Don Cusic, is the definitive biography of Sarah Cannon. She is also the executive director of Nashville Sites, a nationally recognized digital public history platform bringing Nashville’s stories to life through interactive tours.Howdy! The Minnie Pearl StoryThroughout her career, Sarah Ophelia Colley Cannon skillfully balanced her dual roles as Minnie and Sarah. Whether at the Opry, on the road, or on Hee Haw, Minnie remained a trusted friend and consummate professional. As k.d. lang noted, “Minnie understood where country music needed to go and who it needed to embrace. She was a visionary.” Rich with 155 historic photographs, this definitive biography covers the many chapters of Sarah Cannon’s life. Drawing from archives and interviews with those who knew her, Howdy! The Minnie Pearl Story captures not only Cannon’s enduring humor and impact, but also the woman behind the laughter.Connect with Mary Ellen: <a href="https://nashvillesites.org/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.instagram.com/drpethel/" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/mary-ellen-pethel/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Howdy! The Minnie Pearl Story: <a href="https://utpress.org/9798895270585/howdy/" rel="nofollow">The University of Tennessee Press</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9798895270585" rel="nofollow">Hardcover</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9798895270592" rel="nofollow">Ebook</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Author, historian, and educator Mary Ellen Pethel joins Holley to explore the life and legacy of Minnie Pearl, the woman behind one of country music’s most beloved personas. Together, they discuss Sarah Cannon’s rise to Grand Ole Opry icon, her influence beyond comedy, and why she deserves to be understood as a cultural force. Mary Ellen also shares insights from her work with Nashville Sites and reflects on how public history can uncover overlooked stories and deepen our understanding of place, memory, and women’s leadership.

Minnie Pearl and the Hidden History of Nashville: Country Music, Culture, and Legacy with Mary Ellen Pethel

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Historical fiction author and speaker Joan Fernandez joins Holley to explore the untold story of Jo van Gogh-Bonger and the making of Vincent van Gogh’s legacy. Together, they challenge the myth of the isolated “mad genius,” examining how Jo’s strategy, resilience, and belief in Vincent’s work transformed him into a global icon. They also discuss how modern concepts like branding, influence, and storytelling shaped his reputation, and what it means to write history with integrity. Joan reflects on her own path from corporate marketing to historical fiction and the importance of uncovering the overlooked figures who change the course of history.Joan Fernandez BiographyJoan Fernandez leverages three decades in the corporate marketing trenches to reveal the untold story of the woman who built the Van Gogh legacy. The author of the award-winning Saving Vincent: A Novel of Jo van Gogh (2025), Joan is a leading authority on Jo van Gogh-Bonger, framing her not simply as a widow, but as a brilliant strategist who navigated the demands of single motherhood while disrupting the global art market. Beyond her work as a frequent speaker and founder of the Women’s Fiction Writers Association Historical Fiction affinity group, she explores the intersection of history, marketing, and resilience in her Substack, Digging In with Joan Fernandez.About Saving Vincent: A Novel of Jo van GoghBased on a true story, in 1891, timid Jo van Gogh Bonger lives safely in the background of her art dealer husband Theo’s passionate work to sell unknown artists, especially his ill-fated dead brother Vincent. When Theo dies unexpectedly, Jo’s brief happiness is shattered. Her inheritance—hundreds of unsold paintings by Vincent—is worthless. Pressured to move to her parents’ home, Jo defies tradition, opening a boarding house to raise her infant son alone, and choosing to promote Vincent’s art herself. But her ingenuity and persistence draw the powerful opposition of a Parisian art dealer who vows to stop her once and for all, and so sink Vincent into obscurity.Connect with Joan: <a href="https://www.joanfernandezauthor.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.facebook.com/joanferndzauthor" rel="nofollow">Facebook</a> | <a href="https://www.instagram.com/joanfernandezauthor/" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/joan-fernandez/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a> | <a href="https://joanfernandez.substack.com/" rel="nofollow">Substack</a>Saving Vincent: <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781647428709" rel="nofollow">Paperback</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781647428716" rel="nofollow">Ebook</a> | <a href="https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Saving-Vincent/Joan-Fernandez/9781647428709" rel="nofollow">Simon &amp; Schuster</a>Books Mentioned: Heroines of Mercy Street by Pamela Toler <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9780316392068" rel="nofollow">Paperback</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9780316392051" rel="nofollow">Ebook</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Historical fiction author and speaker Joan Fernandez joins Holley to explore the untold story of Jo van Gogh-Bonger and the making of Vincent van Gogh’s legacy. Together, they challenge the myth of the isolated “mad genius” and reveal how Jo’s strategy, resilience, and belief in Vincent’s work transformed him into a global icon. They also discuss how storytelling, branding, and influence shaped his reputation, and what it means to write history with integrity.

Jo van Gogh and Vincent van Gogh: The Woman Who Built an Artist’s Legacy with Joan Fernandez

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Historian Laura Smith joins Holley to explore the power of material culture and how objects help us better understand the past. Together, they discuss how everyday items can reveal complex and often overlooked histories, why physical artifacts create deeper human connection than written sources alone, and how museums use objects to spark conversation and reflection. Laura also shares insights from her work at Woodlawn &amp; Pope-Leighey House and reflects on how learning to “read” objects can change the way we see history and the world around us.Laura Smith BiographyLaura Smith is a public historian whose work is focused on material culture as a way to encourage observation, conversation, and connection. A Utah native now based in Northern Virginia, Laura serves as the Program and Collections Assistant at Woodlawn &amp; Pope-Leighey House. Beyond her museum work, Laura dedicates her time as the Vice Chair of the Manassas Historic Resources Board and contributes to the field through independent writing. Books Mentioned: History Through Material Culture by Leonie Hannan and Sarah Longair <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781784991265" rel="nofollow">Paperback</a>Connect with Laura: <a href="https://www.instagram.com/thecabinetofcuriosity1/" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/laura-e-smith1/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a> | <a href="https://lauraesmith2.substack.com/?utm_campaign=reader2&utm_medium=reader2&utm_source=%2Fsearch%2Fthecabinetofcuriosity" rel="nofollow">Substack</a>Woodlawn and Pope-Leighey House: <a href="https://www.woodlawnpopeleighey.org/" rel="nofollow">Website</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a> Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Laura Smith joins Holley to explore how objects help us understand the past. From museum artifacts to everyday items, they discuss how material culture reveals hidden stories and deepens our connection to history.

Material Culture Explained: How Objects Tell Hidden Histories with Laura Smith

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Public historian Amanda Roper joins Holley to explore the often overlooked role of women in historic preservation. Together, they discuss how women have played a central role in saving places like George Washington’s Mount Vernon, how preservation goes beyond buildings to protect cultural memory and identity, and why these stories remain so important today. Amanda also reflects on her own path into public history and the importance of sharing underrepresented stories.Amanda Roper BiographyAmanda Roper is a public historian who has dedicated her career to preserving historic places and sharing stories that have often been underrepresented in the American historical narrative. She holds a degree in history from the College of Charleston and has worked with several leading cultural and preservation institutions, including the National Park Service, the Smithsonian Institution, and the National Trust for Historic Preservation, as well as at historic sites in Charleston, South Carolina, and Alexandria, Virginia.Amanda currently serves on the boards of the Historic House Museum Consortium of Washington, District of Columbia; Japanese American Memorial Pilgrimages; and the National Collaborative for Women’s History Sites. She is a 2025–2026 Research Fellow at the George Washington Presidential Library at Mount Vernon and is currently researching and writing a book exploring the history of women in historic preservation.About Amanda’s Upcoming BookSaving America’s Past: Women in Preservation explores the vital but often overlooked role women have played in preserving America&#39;s historic places—from early localized efforts in the nineteenth century to continued leadership in the modern era. Long before preservation became professionalized, women led the charge to save buildings and landscapes, protect cultural heritage, and shape public memory and civic identity. Women have stewarded some of our most famous historic homes, parks, battlefields, neighborhoods, and cities and served as essential keepers of community stories and material culture. This book will take readers on a journey through America’s preservation history, highlighting key women who worked individually and collectively to save our past. This book traces the various and evolving motivations women had for engaging in this work, revealing how women used their skills, networks, and vision to shape the way American’s remember their own history.Books Mentioned: Black Majority by Peter Wood <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781324066200" rel="nofollow">Paperback</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781324086741" rel="nofollow">Ebook</a>Connect with Amanda: <a href="https://amandahroper.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.instagram.com/amandahroper" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/amanda-roper-36559592" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn </a> Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Public historian Amanda Roper joins Holley to explore the vital and often overlooked role of women in historic preservation. From Mount Vernon to Manzanar, they discuss how women have helped save America’s historic places, why preservation matters beyond buildings, and how communities can play a role in protecting their own stories.

Women in Historic Preservation: Saving America’s Landmarks and Legacy with Amanda Roper

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/4/15/1/84ab48ca-ba5e-4699-9445-3133aa43bc79_holley_and_phil_conversation.mp3

Professor Phil Mathew joins Holley to explore the life and legacy of Julius Caesar and the forces that led to the fall of the Roman Republic. Together, they discuss how military power and political ambition shaped Caesar’s rise, the role of loyalty and leadership in his success, and how intelligence and strategy influenced his campaigns. Phil also shares insights into how myth and reality intertwine in ancient sources and reflects on what Caesar’s story reveals about power, leadership, and the fragility of political systems.Phil Mathew BiographyProfessor Phil Mathew was born and raised in Chicago, Illinois. He holds a graduate degree in World History from Norwich University in Vermont and teaches history at Joliet Junior College, located just outside of Chicago.His research focuses on the military and political history of Ancient Greece and Rome. In particular, he is interested in the impact of war on society, the relationship between soldiers and their commanders, intelligence gathering in the Roman army, and the life and legacy of Alexander the Great. His broader interests also include the history of the Roman emperors and their imperial dynasties, as well as Roman Britain, Roman Judaea, and Roman Egypt.His graduate capstone examined the use of military intelligence in Julius Caesar’s army during the Gallic War. He is a member of the Association of Ancient Historians and the Society for Classical Studies.Books Mentioned: Caesar: Life of a Colossus by Adrian Goldsworthy <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9780300126891" rel="nofollow">Paperback</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9780300139198" rel="nofollow">Ebook</a>Connect with Phil: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/phil-mathew-72270171/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Professor Phil Mathew joins Holley to explore the life and legacy of Julius Caesar and the fall of the Roman Republic. Together, they discuss how military strategy, leadership, and political ambition shaped Caesar’s rise, and what his story reveals about power and the fragility of political systems.

Julius Caesar Explained: The Fall of the Roman Republic and the Rise of Empire with Phil Mathew

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Writer and cultural critic Simone O. Elias joins Holley to explore the enduring relevance of classic Hollywood and why these films continue to resonate today. Together, they discuss the bold storytelling of the Pre-Code era, the portrayal of women on screen, and how actresses like Judy Holliday and Joan Blondell challenged expectations. Simone also reflects on her perspective as a Gen Z critic and how classic films continue to shape modern culture and conversation.Simone O. Elias Biography Simone O. Elias is a cultural critic and author whose work has been featured on Turner Classic Movies, Psychology Today, The Forward, and the San Francisco Chronicle. Her writing explores classic Hollywood, feminism, mental health, and Jewish identity.About Old Films, Young EyesWhy would a modern teenager find classic films enthralling? In Old Films, Young Eyes, Simone O. Elias offers an eye-opening exploration of how classic Hollywood movies foreshadowed, influenced, and continue to shape popular culture in surprising ways. From anticipating today’s image-driven social media landscape to helping usher rock music into the mainstream—and even sparking elements of the #MeToo movement—these films remain remarkably relevant.Despite the common belief that old movies are outdated, many classic films boldly confronted issues such as racism, antisemitism, gender roles, and shifting attitudes toward relationships. They also helped shape the cultural foundations behind modern icons like Taylor Swift and Lady Gaga, while at times even foreshadowing more sobering developments, including the global Covid-19 pandemic.Drawing on her perspective as a Gen Z cultural critic, Elias provides a fresh and thoughtful look at the enduring socio-cultural impact of classic Hollywood and why these films continue to resonate with new generations.Connect with Simone: <a href="https://simoneoelias.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.instagram.com/simoneoelias" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a> | <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@simoneoelias" rel="nofollow">YouTube</a>Old Films, Young Eyes: <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781476696591" rel="nofollow">Bookshop</a> | <a href="https://mcfarlandbooks.com/product/old-films-young-eyes/?srsltid=AfmBOorpnE4rH9iIfZh_65Pb8N1xY3uZs9tm3RR0UCbXOrp_IpYvs_W4" rel="nofollow">McFarland</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a> Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Writer and cultural critic Simone O. Elias joins Holley to discuss the enduring relevance of classic Hollywood, from the bold storytelling of the Pre-Code era to the portrayal of women on screen. They explore how these films continue to shape modern culture and resonate with new generations.

Classic Hollywood Films Explained: Why They Still Matter Today with Simone O. Elias

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/4/7/17/702a4bb4-7027-442e-af28-3e147bf16974_holley_and_keith_conversation.mp3

Educator and historian Keith Pakela joins Holley to explore how civics and history are taught in today’s classroom and why the focus is shifting from memorization to critical thinking. Together, they discuss how students are engaging with questions about democracy and the political system, what gaps educators are seeing in civic understanding, and how classroom discussions can create space for meaningful dialogue. Keith also reflects on the growing role of AI in education, the challenges and opportunities it presents, and why helping students learn how to think rather than what to think is more important than ever.Keith Pakela BiographyKeith Pakela is an adjunct professor and AP Government teacher, working with students at both the high school and college level.Connect with Keith: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/keithpakela/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Books Mentioned: Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9780743270755" rel="nofollow">Paperback</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781416549833" rel="nofollow">Ebook</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9780684824901" rel="nofollow">Hardcover</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a> Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Educator and historian Keith Pakela joins Holley to discuss how civics and history are being taught in today’s classrooms and why the focus is shifting from memorization to critical thinking. They explore how students understand democracy, the questions they are asking about the political system, and the role of discussion in shaping civic awareness. Keith also reflects on the impact of AI on education and why learning how to think is more important than ever in a rapidly changing world.

Teaching Critical Thinking: How Students Learn to Think, Not Just Memorize with Keith Pakela

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/4/22/0/de3ed126-e39b-471c-a5e1-ca99fcd19bd5_holley_and_katie_conversation.mp3

Author Katie Gee Salisbury joins Holley to explore the life and legacy of Anna May Wong, Hollywood’s first Asian American movie star, and the barriers she faced in early film. Together, they discuss Wong’s rise during the Jazz Age, the limitations placed on her by stereotypical roles, and her bold decision to leave Hollywood for Europe in search of greater creative freedom. Katie also reflects on the myths that have shaped Wong’s story, the complexities of representation on screen, and why her legacy continues to resonate today.Katie Gee Salisbury BiographyKatie Gee Salisbury is the author of Not Your China Doll, a biography of Anna May Wong, Hollywood’s first Asian American movie star. Her work has appeared in The New York Times, Vanity Fair, The Believer, the Asian American Writers’ Workshop, and elsewhere. She was a finalist for the Jerome Hill Artist Fellowship in 2021 and gave the TED Talk “As American as Chop Suey.” She also writes the Substack Half-Caste Woman. A fifth-generation Chinese American who hails from Southern California, she now lives in Brooklyn.About Not Your China DollNominated for the 2024 Goodreads Choice Awards in History &amp; BiographyPW Weekly Top 10 Memoirs &amp; Biographies for Spring 2024Entertainment Weekly “Books We Are Excited to Read in 2024”Set against the glittering backdrop of Los Angeles during the gin-soaked Jazz Age and the rise of Hollywood, this debut book brings Anna May Wong—Hollywood’s first Asian American movie star—back into focus, reclaiming her place as a pioneering and often overlooked figure in cinema history.Before Constance Wu, Sandra Oh, Awkwafina, or Lucy Liu, there was Anna May Wong. In her time, she was a celebrated beauty, a witty conversationalist, and a fashion icon. Plucked from her family’s laundry business in Los Angeles, she rose to stardom in Douglas Fairbanks’s blockbuster The Thief of Bagdad. Audiences and the press clamored for more, but as Hollywood continued to confine her to stereotypical roles, she made the bold decision to leave and pursue opportunities abroad.In Europe, Anna May starred in acclaimed films in Berlin, Paris, and London, captivating audiences and moving within elite international circles. When she returned to the United States, she confronted Hollywood directly, speaking out against the industry’s racism and working to break free from limiting roles like the “China doll” and “dragon lady.” In doing so, she helped reshape the possibilities for Asian American representation on screen.Filled with vivid stories of capricious directors, admiring costars, glamorous parties, and far-flung romances, Not Your China Doll captures the vibrant and defiant life of a groundbreaking artist.Connect with Katie: <a href="https://www.notyourchinadoll.com/" rel="nofollow">Book Website</a> | <a href="https://www.katiegeesalisbury.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.instagram.com/kayteesal" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a> | <a href="https://www.instagram.com/annamaywongbook/" rel="nofollow">Anna May Wong Book Instagram</a> | <a href="https://bsky.app/profile/kayteesal.bsky.social" rel="nofollow">Bluesky</a> | <a href="https://halfcastewoman.substack.com/" rel="nofollow">Half-Caste Woman Substack</a>Not Your China Doll: <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9780593183984" rel="nofollow">Hardcover</a> | <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9780593183991" rel="nofollow">Ebook</a> | <a href="https://www.notyourchinadoll.com/#buybook" rel="nofollow">Website</a>Recommended Films: Song (1928)Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Author Katie Gee Salisbury joins Holley to explore the life and legacy of Anna May Wong, Hollywood’s first Asian American movie star. They discuss Wong’s rise during the Jazz Age, the limitations she faced in early Hollywood, and her decision to leave for Europe in search of greater creative freedom. Katie also examines the myths surrounding Wong’s life, the challenges of representation on screen, and why her story remains so relevant today.

Anna May Wong and Early Hollywood: Race, Representation, and Asian American History with Katie Gee Salisbury

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/3/30/0/a881de32-0a98-4f4c-8c27-f61ad41e9ad1_holley_and_abby_conversation.mp3

Historian and cultural heritage professional Abby Whitlock joins Holley to explore the myth of the World War I fighter ace and how wartime hero narratives are carefully constructed. Together, they discuss how figures like Arthur Rhys Davids were transformed into symbols of heroism, how social class and media shaped who was remembered, and what these stories reveal about masculinity and national identity. Abby also reflects on her own path into aviation history and the importance of looking beyond the legend to understand the complex human experiences behind it.Abby Whitlock BiographyAbby Whitlock is a historian, writer, and cultural heritage professional whose research centers on the social and cultural history afterlives of the Victorian Era and the World Wars. Specializing in First World War aviation history, her current research focuses on the tension between the fighter pilot archetype, mental health, and the transformation of complex individuals into national symbols. She has delivered lectures on topics such as morale, mental health, and comradeship within the air services for the Royal Air Force Museum, Society for Military History, and Great War Aviation Society, and has published extensively on the evolving image of the aviator from wartime media coverage to post-war popular culture. Abby writes and consults on military history, aviation, and cultural heritage projects, with a focus on making rigorous research accessible beyond academia. She works in the Digital Content Strategy and Experience Division at the National Gallery of Art in Washington, DC, where she leads program management and strategic planning for the Chief Digital Officer.Books Mentioned: Käte &amp; the Red Baron: Käte Oltersdorf &amp; Manfred von Richthofen – Her “Restless Patient” by Lance J Bronnenkant PhD and Reinhard Schröder Oberst <a href="https://www.amazon.com/K%C3%A4te-Red-Baron-Oltersdorf-Richthofen/dp/196463735X" rel="nofollow">Amazon</a>Connect with Abby: <a href="https://www.abby-s-whitlock.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://bsky.app/profile/abbyswhitlock.bsky.social" rel="nofollow">Bluesky</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/abby-s-whitlock/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>  Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Historian and cultural heritage professional Abby Whitlock joins Holley to explore the myth of the World War I fighter ace. Together, they discuss how wartime heroes were shaped by media, class, and culture—and what these stories reveal about memory, masculinity, and the human realities behind the legend.

World War I Fighter Aces: Myth vs Reality in Early Air Combat with Abby Whitlock

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/4/4/0/47dfee36-1bf4-40c4-bbe9-e93a7dca0e03_conv...___apr_04__2026_001_holley_snaith_s_stu.mp3

Historian Pamela Toler joins Holley in the first episode of Season 3 to explore the life and legacy of Sigrid Schultz, an American journalist who reported from Nazi Germany during one of the most turbulent periods of the twentieth century. Together, they discuss how Schultz navigated censorship, used a pseudonym to report dangerous truths, and became one of the most influential foreign correspondents of her time. Pamela also reflects on the broader role of women in journalism and why Schultz’s story reminds us of the vital connection between a free press and a healthy democracy.Pamela Toler Biography Armed with a PhD in history, a well-thumbed deck of library cards, and a large dose of curiosity, author, speaker, and historian Pamela D. Toler writes historical nonfiction for a popular audience. She moves beyond the familiar boundaries of American history to tell stories from around the world and from perspectives often overlooked—from the other side of the battlefield, the gender line, or the color bar.Toler is the author of ten books of popular history for children and adults, including Heroines of Mercy Street: Real Nurses of the Civil War, Women Warriors: An Unexpected History, and The Dragon from Chicago: The Untold Story of an American Reporter in Nazi Germany. Her work has appeared in The American Scholar, Aramco World, Calliope, History Channel Magazine, MHQ: The Quarterly Journal of Military History, Ms., Time.com, and The Washington Post, and has been featured by National Geographic.About The Dragon from ChicagoIn The Dragon from Chicago, historian Pamela Toler tells the story of Sigrid Schultz, an American journalist who spent years courageously reporting from Berlin, covering events from the revolts of 1919 through the Nazi rise to power and the Allied air raids over the city in 1941. At a time when women reporters rarely wrote front-page stories, Schultz consistently reported the truth about Nazi Germany despite censorship and the constant threat of expulsion, internment, or even death.The Nazis called Schultz “that dragon from Chicago.” One fellow correspondent described her as “Adolf Hitler’s greatest enemy.” Schultz herself simply insisted she was “just a reporter.” Her story is a powerful account of one woman standing up for truth in an era increasingly shaped by disinformation and propaganda fueled by hate.Connect with Pamela: <a href="https://www.pameladtoler.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.historyinthemargins.com/" rel="nofollow">History in the Margins Blog</a> | <a href="https://www.facebook.com/pamela.toler/" rel="nofollow">Facebook</a> | <a href="https://www.instagram.com/pamelatolerauthor/" rel="nofollow">Instagram</a> | <a href="https://bsky.app/profile/pdtoler.bsky.social" rel="nofollow">Bluesky</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/pamelatoler" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a>The Dragon from Chicago: <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9780807019603" rel="nofollow">Bookshop</a> | <a href="https://www.beacon.org/The-Dragon-From-Chicago-P2050.aspx" rel="nofollow">Beacon Press</a>Books Mentioned: Fighting Words by Nancy F. Cott <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/117961/9781541699335" rel="nofollow">Hardcover</a>Connect with Holley: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/sayitwithhistory" rel="nofollow">Buy Me A Coffee</a> | <a href="https://www.holleysnaith.com/" rel="nofollow">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/holleysnaith/" rel="nofollow">LinkedIn</a> Listen on YouTube: <a href="https://youtube.com/@holleysnaithhistorian?si=mxj1848C3wLjM05P" rel="nofollow">Channel</a>

Historian Pamela Toler joins Holley to explore the life of Sigrid Schultz, an American journalist reporting from Nazi Germany. They discuss censorship, courage, and the role of journalism in defending democracy.

Sigrid Schultz and Nazi Germany: Journalism, Resistance, and Reporting the Truth with Pamela Toler

From unsung trailblazers to cultural icons, Say It with History explores how the past shapes the stories we tell—and the lives we lead. Hosted by historian and writer Holley Snaith, each episode highlights people and topics from history, offering engaging, insightful, and often surprising journeys through time. Whether you’re a lifelong history lover or just curious about the stories behind the past, this show brings history to life in fresh and meaningful ways.