MMT50 - 245
jD is joined by Matt F Basler to discuss his experience with Pavement and to analyze song number 45 on the countdown.
Transcript:
Track 1:
[0:00] Previously on the Pavement Top 50.
Track 2:
[0:02] So there you go. At number 46, it's the third Wowie Zowie song to chart behind Best Friend's Arm at number 49.
And Motion suggests itself at 48. Here we are at 46 with We Dance, the first track of the 2005 masterpiece Wowie Zowie. Maui.
Keith, what do you think about We Dance?
So, yeah, I think it's a great song.
I love how it leads off the album. It's got like, I feel like it has this ethereal quality to it.
Like that kind of just, I don't know, it seems just kind of dreamy sort of for me.
I don't know if that's how it comes off to anyone else at the beginning of the song.
Track 3:
[0:59] Hey, this is Westy from the Rock and Roll Band, Pavement, and you're listening to The Countdown.
Hey, it's JD here, back for another episode of our Top 50 Countdown for the Seminole Indie Rock Band.
Track 6:
[1:12] Pavement. Week over week, we're going to count down the 50 essential Pavement tracks that you selected with your very own Top 20 ballads.
I then tabulated the results using an advanced abacus and, well, frankly, a calculator.
And all that's left for us to reveal is this week's track.
How will your favorite song fare in the rating? Well, you'll need to tune in or whatever the podcast equivalent of tuning in is, I suppose, downloading to find out.
Track 3:
[1:38] This week.
Track 6:
[1:39] We're joined by a Pavement superfan, Matt F. Bosler. So there's that.
How are you doing, Matt? I'm wonderful. This is good to hear.
Yeah, no, I think so. Yeah, man.
Uh it's a snowy blustery day where i am very cold what's it like where you're at uh same so i'm in i'm in uh st louis missouri it's it's a frozen hellscape currently, so i'm in a robe right nowi'm in our our place is cold we can't keep it warm ceilings are too tall oh my god that's terrible that's a but in the summer i bet you it's awesome it's hot then, there's no good time there's nogood period oh man well maybe when the cardinals play i don't know are you a cardinals guy i'm not a sports guy not a sports guy at all i i'll fake it sometimes right get by you know right,I've learned how to say how about them cards, that's great you got it nailed you got this whole thing figured out.
Track 3:
[2:59] Well.
Track 6:
[2:59] Motherfucker, we're here to talk about your pavement experience.
And I've been calling it your pavement origin story. So why don't you share with us what that looks like?
Well, I see a post. I see a post out there on the internet.
It says like, oh, we're talking about the top 50 pavement songs.
Would any of you like to talk about it? Maybe discuss your origin stories?
Reason i say i say to myself i say matt uh perhaps you would be a unique perspective on something like this as i am what i think especially in the world of pavement fans i'm a fairly newuh of pavement fan i'm a newcomer uh to to the band now i'm a i'm a coming of age in the the 90s.
Track 3:
[3:53] You know?
Track 6:
[3:54] I'm listening to Nirvana, Pixies, Replacements.
I'm a cool guy. We were from a small town in Missouri, though, so it was difficult to figure out what was cool and what wasn't cool.
Coolest things we were reading were like Guitar Player Magazine, and then you'd find out about a band from someone else.
You'd bump into a cool person, and they'd go like, Like, I've never heard of, I don't know, some band, you know?
Ever heard of the Stooges? And you'd go, no.
Well, somehow, I had gotten it in my brain that I'm sure you're aware of Nu Metal and, Saliva, perhaps, or Korn, certainly.
Track 3:
[4:46] Sure.
Track 6:
[4:46] Backwards K, yeah. Yeah. Somehow in my brain, I thought Pavement was a new metal band. Get out.
Now, I don't know how this happened.
Maybe the name, maybe the way the name was written at some point, the logo.
Sure. And so I totally wrote them off, you know? Now, of course, getting into music is not a linear thing.
So I would hear Pavement songs.
I was familiar with some, you know, Cut Your Hair.
When I dove in, I was like, oh, I have heard this. But I never connected.
Dear friend Ryan tried to get me into Pavement.
Showed me, I think, maybe one of their late night.
But I don't know. It never came together. always thought oh pavement their new metal and a lot of my friends listen to pavement, but I think what's the band white pony is that the albumno no.
[5:57] Oh, shoot. What are they called? Drawing a blank. Deftones.
Oh, Deftones. Okay. Yeah. Deftones somehow, whatever.
I'm not saying you're a dunce if you like the Deftones, but the Deftones were kind of new metal, but slipped into the indie rock. People liked them as well.
So it wasn't insane that somebody would maybe have a new metal band on their their list of bands they liked if they listened to things that i liked right so years go by i just don't get into ityou know and and uh i should have i should and i'm a bad music listener too takes me a long time i gotta listen to things over and over again to like uh get into it um, so it's it's i i try reallyhard i try to be listening to new stuff all the time but it It feels like an undertaking for me to do that, so I don't do it as much as I should.
Anyway, driving in the car maybe five years ago, six years ago, with my beautiful lover, Courtney, she puts on a song, Range Life.
Track 3:
[7:03] Oh.
Track 6:
[7:04] Boy. And this is rare that this happens to me.
Like I said, you usually got to hear something over and over.
Range Life, we're maybe halfway through, and I go, now see this. Now this is good. Now.
Track 3:
[7:16] This is what music should be.
Track 6:
[7:18] Who's this? She goes, this is Pavement. I say, no, no, no.
No, I know Pavement. This isn't Pavement.
Pavement would be doing like the thing that old Jonathan Davis does at the end of that.
He'd be scatting or something.
She shows me the phone.
I'm swerving all over as I just stare at this phone scrolling, going, wait, this can't be right.
Track 3:
[7:46] Well, it was.
Track 6:
[7:47] It was right.
Track 1:
[7:50] And man.
Track 6:
[7:51] Yeah, then I started. So even still, though, it's like I said, a bad music listener.
And now I'm coming into Pavement with a billion albums.
And they're a weird band, right? So I started listening to the top on Spotify.
So you've got like Harness Your Hope. Good place to start.
Track 3:
[8:11] Yeah.
Track 6:
[8:11] Start there. I'm like, oh, this is great. I love all of these.
And you know those are probably the most like easily accessible um pavement songs which it was fun to find out they have a lot of songs that are uh maybe not so easily accessible, then ii go well i gotta dive into an album i choose at random sort of uh wowie zowie jesus christ which is now now that's kind of my my favorite one which i guess that's kind of you you know,your first one, but because I'm like, Oh, these guys are, are weirdos too. So, And even, you know, I think they're an interesting band to get into late.
[8:58] Because by the time I went, well, I'll get into the subreddits. I'll really dive in.
People are talking about EPs so much.
But, you know, I'm coming more from a world where EPs don't come into the conversation as much.
Like with pavement those seem like very main albums uh but i can't really think of another band where eps would be discussed on such a same level as as the full albums um and yeah iwould i mean there's i'm still at a point where like i can't name there's songs on each album that if you named them i wouldn't know them offhand you know like gotcha you'd know themto hear them but but not retrieve the song by name.
Which is great. I mean, yeah, and I'm still, you know, like I said, it does take me a long time to get into stuff.
And like I was saying, I think even especially kind of the back ends of Pavement albums get pretty wild.
So yeah, I mean, I'm still kind of digging through and figuring it all out.
Oh, that's really cool. Cool. First of all, you're a great storyteller.
So thank you for that. That was a good story.
Is it fair to say then you've never seen them live? We did go see them in Kansas City.
Track 3:
[10:25] Oh.
Track 6:
[10:26] I mean, one of the terrible things to me is like, listening to them now, they would have been, because I probably would have been getting in.
Track 3:
[10:34] Like.
Track 6:
[10:35] You know, with Crooked Rain probably would would have been the first one i would have bought if i if i did it at the right time right and i would have absolutely i mean this wouldhave been my favorite band and then i mean they are now i i, consider them in the they so it's pre-pandemic they were going to play a show in barcelona, right and we i mean we weretalking about it um because it just felt like i i felt like i missed out.
This is a band I could have seen several times.
And you're going like, well, they've already done a reunion tour.
There's a good chance we'll never get to do this. So maybe we go. Maybe we check it out.
Track 3:
[11:21] And then.
Track 6:
[11:22] Of course, that all went away. And then we went and saw them in Kansas City a couple of years ago, I think, a year ago, two years ago. And it was wonderful.
Track 3:
[11:33] It was great.
Track 1:
[11:34] Yeah.
Track 6:
[11:35] You lucked out because that 2010 Renewed Tour, although it was very special to me, I saw them in Central Park in New York City and that was really special.
They didn't look like they were having the best time. That's what I understand.
But this tour, they seemed like, like SM in particular, just seemed like he was having fun.
Right. And yeah, that's interesting too, because yeah, now my perception of them is like, wow, what a great live band.
Yeah. But even in their heyday is the wrong term, but I guess pre-Breakup, right?
Sure. Even then, people were kind of like, oh, they're sloppy.
That's like their whole thing.
Yeah and i you know that's not something i ever experienced yeah the kansas city show was just a great band oh yeah so much fun so do you have any um any favorite tracks or a favoritefavorite record at this point is it still wowie zowie yeah i think so um.
[12:38] It was interesting well so that was you know i i probably listened to that for a year or two before i started going like okay i'm a i'm a join the subreddit guy and uh it was reallyinteresting for me to learn that that was like uh not well received initially um and even the later stuff too i i i think twilight is great i think bright in the corners is great and you know Imean, I know that I'm getting all this stuff at once.
There's no like, oh, I love Payment. I love the sound of Slanted and Enchanted.
Can't wait to see what's next. And then you get this kind of polished record, and maybe that would be a disappointment.
But to me, it's all at once. So I don't know.
I really love it all. It would be really hard for me to rank.
Track 1:
[13:34] Like.
Track 6:
[13:35] Well, and also, I mean, I did listen to, like, started listening to the top Spotify plays, and then I would listen to some, like, other people's like my favorite tracks or whatever deepercuts or whatever and right and so like part i don't necessarily even know like what's from terror twilight bright in the corners without like thinking about it um so for effort and you knowslanted change is a little easier to just discern that sound from the later stuff but even Even Crooked Rain is a fairly slick record.
So yeah, a lot of those tracks, I don't really... Like I said, unless I go, oh, what is that on?
It's all just like pavement songs. Wowie Zowie, I know the best.
That I could do. But yeah, they're all just kind of like...
It's just a bunch of good songs. I agree. I so agree with you.
And I discovered them in a similar way. I discovered them late.
I discovered them after Terror Twilight.
So I got the same gift that you got, which is like five records at once.
Yeah. And to hear people say like Carrot Rope, I've seen people say like.
Track 3:
[14:55] Oh.
Track 6:
[14:56] But that one, that one's a toss off. That one's a joke, stupid song.
And I'm just like, I don't... Sure.
Track 3:
[15:02] I guess.
Track 6:
[15:03] But I like it. And I think, yeah, fun songs like that, there's room room for that again if you were so stoked for the next 10 pavement songs and one of them you felt, was a silly gooftrack maybe i could see being a little more disappointed but i don't know i think it sounds like uh sounds like animal crossing music um which was another big part of the pandemic for usyeah and i enjoyed it tied it all in a bow you just tied it all in a bow you You are a master storyteller.
Track 1:
[15:36] Well.
Track 6:
[15:36] What do you say we go to the track that we're going to talk about this week, and we can do that right after this little break. What do you think? Can't wait. But I will.
I'll wait, because you just said there's going to be a break. So I can wait.
Track 1:
[15:52] And I'm excited to do it.
Track 6:
[15:54] Excellent.
Track 3:
[15:55] Well.
Track 5:
[15:55] We'll talk to you right after this. Hey, this is Bob Mustanovich from Pavement.
Thanks for listening. Now on with the countdown. 45.
Track 3:
[19:55] So this is song number 45 on the countdown and it is our first track from terror twilight on the the list so far it is you are a light what do you think of this track matt personally andhey you know not trying to be controversial i like it i think it's great oh that's not controversial i guess you're right i guess everybody wrote in i didn't like i saw you talking about peoplewrite in for your top 50 and i went i'm not qualified i'm i shouldn't oh i should let the the real guys do this um so far i i agree i've i've been i've been keeping up with the pod and i'm i'mthere there's not which there's only been a couple but there's not yet been a track that I've gone.
Track 6:
[20:52] You people are insane. And you are a light. I'm right there with them.
Sure, this could be a top 50 for me.
Yeah, I think it's a lovely song. I think his vocal tone is maybe one of the best that we've heard of performances delivered vocally.
It's so clean and so smooth um i love all the atmospherics in this song nigel has.
[21:19] Created like a soundscape you know for the rather sparse band arrangement which we're used to with this band you know sort of uh filling in the gaps really nicely i love how thesong opens with that almost it almost sounds like you're turning something on yeah like a flick of a switch or something doesn't it oh yeah yeah yeah uh for sure old electronics remindsme of or something yeah in a in a movie i don't know if old electronics really make that sound but i feel like they do yeah yeah yeah.
[21:57] Um yeah i think i think you know that's a a thing about um like his vocals like sometimes, uh i'll listen to vocal takes of the pavement you know and be like i wish i was boldenough, to be okay with that uh and this isn't one of those right like this he sings very like like, on key and everything, which is cool, too, to have those differences.
And then to, like, know that, like, on other songs, and of course I'm not thinking of any right now, but he does it a lot, right, where it's not necessarily on the correct pitch or with greattone.
Track 2:
[22:44] And so songs like this.
Track 6:
[22:45] Right, are just kind of like, well, yeah, he could have done it perfect, but it feels better, more fun to...
To do it um more fun i guess or uh whatever and um and right here randy jackson being like you're a little pitchy dog yeah right and that's it that you know i mean like i said like if i'mever recording a song like there's no way i i would i would i'm very self-conscious about things like that and uh it's it's nice to have someone to look at and go it's so it's okay you You canhave fun with it, or you can do it more like you're a light and nail it and make a very pretty song.
But then I do like how this song is almost cut in half, right?
There's the first chunk, and then there's the second part, half.
[23:40] Dynamically, there's tons of shifts. And that's another songwriting thing that I appreciate in this song. They don't go back to the first part.
And I think in songwriting, I don't know.
I feel like that's a tough thing to do, to go like, nope, it's just this and then this and then we're done.
We don't need to overdo it.
There's no reason to come back to even like a chorus, which I don't know.
I mean, the song would be difficult to kind of say what is a chorus.
Yeah. Yeah. yeah i suppose you are the you know like you are the light the the calm in the day you're the light the calm in the day um like i suppose that scores but you're right there's no,There's no pavement blueprint. We've heard six songs so far on the countdown, and they're all remarkably different.
Track 4:
[24:35] They're all remarkably different from a structure standpoint as well as just like a finished product.
Track 6:
[24:42] I love that too. I'm glad you pointed that out because it's like verse, chorus, verse, chorus, and then weirdness, and then sort of a bridge, and then sort of out. But none of it is...
Songwriting 101 no and right like it is interesting i think because you could take a lot of these songs in this this top 50 and pretend well what if there was a band that was this like this wastheir entire thing uh and you know you'd be like oh that's they're cool uh, But right, pavement does do a lot of different things.
And to me, that's more interesting. I think I get the impression from some of the diehards, which again, I'm not saying anyone's doing it wrong or anything, but I think sometimes peoplewill get sort of stuck on their idea of pavement, or maybe the version of pavement they like.
And it can be annoying to them when they diverge from that too far in their minds.
But I think I look at it like.
[25:58] Well, I only have to listen to one band. I don't have to get into five or six other bands.
It's making it easy for me. That's great.
[26:12] What do you think this song is about?
Do you think it's about anything, or is it just word salad, or what's the deal? Man, I'm not a lyric guy.
No, okay. I guess I'm more of a connotative lyric person, right? Okay, expand on that.
These words feel a certain way together.
It's not like a story. It's not like a linear tale, right?
Track 4:
[26:42] Right.
Track 6:
[26:43] And I'll do that even with songs that maybe are... like someone will go oh that song that's about him riding on a train and i'll be i'll almost be disappointed when someone tells methat right i'm like oh i guess it is yeah okay i see um i i like lyrics that just to me my interpretation was like well that makes me feel this way and And all of these words kind of like cometogether to elicit an emotion.
And that's sort of the vibe I get from pavement lyrics.
I think you're right. I think you're bang on. People talk about it like.
Track 4:
[27:26] Oh.
Track 6:
[27:26] It's just nonsense.
And I think maybe in like a, oh, it's about this. It's this.
I'm talking about these things.
Maybe that's true, but I do think that they always seem to me to be pretty carefully selected things.
[27:46] Elicit uh an emotion a specific like vibe and feeling and uh yeah i mean i i did i so like i said i'm not really lyric i don't really like pour over lyrics um and i did for this because ithought that would be a good thing to do and then that's when i learned well i am bad at it i have no idea what this is about i but i like them all i do like cool i like cool words and these arelike I read these and I go, well, this is cool.
I like how this makes me feel.
And they all are neat words together.
Yeah, and some of them connect. I think You Are a Light, The Calm and The Day, I think that fits together. That may be about somebody, but maybe not.
I love, lyrically, it almost reminds me of David Berman.
[28:37] I Drive a Stick, Gotta Love It, Automatic. like that's the the vocal delivery of that is really cool so i think you're right there's there's almost as much like a michael stipe sort of yeahthing going on where it's like this word sounds good with the melody i'm going to use that in lieu of uh writing something heartfelt and uh, linear or or something along those lines i don'twant to say this song isn't heartfelt or other pavements no but you know what i mean i know you mean and i think sometimes when you write a song, you might you know you say wellyes this song is about the way I felt when this thing happened.
[29:21] But I'm not it's not about that thing you know what I mean it's more about the emotion and, like I said I don't really enjoy story songs that much or I feel like you're sort of likestripping away a layer for people to enjoy it.
Because, you know, you're going like, well, I don't have a red truck, so I can't...
You're making me do more work, right? Because now I have to go, okay, that's the way you felt about your red truck.
What could I feel that way about instead of just talking about the emotion and then, you know, whatever.
I'm getting above my pay grade on talking.
But yeah, I'm sure like maybe old mouth missed, could say, oh, yeah, this is about, like, Lethalizer Slingshots is about the time that we did this and this and this, but I don't know what thatmeans. Yeah. Yeah.
Track 4:
[30:31] Swallow propane.
Track 6:
[30:32] I just know, hey, as much of a fan as I am, not going to do that, Steve. Not going to do that.
Track 3:
[30:40] No.
Track 6:
[30:40] I don't think I will. I don't think I will. Where do you think this fits?
Do you think it's a good spot at 45, five or do you think it should be uh like is it properly rated do you think or would you have it would you have it higher up or would you put it lowerdown for for yeah i mean i think for me i i think i'm gonna have more issues myself with the with the top because i think sure with people who are perhaps better fans than i know it there'sno such like it would be hard for me to not say a.
Track 4:
[31:16] Oh.
Track 6:
[31:17] Cut Your Hair should be top five. That's a, what a great song.
And I think, I feel like it's going to get deeper cut, less pop song toward the top.
And this, I don't know, this kind of.
Track 3:
[31:33] To me.
Track 6:
[31:33] This would probably maybe go higher for me, but I think...
Man, they got a lot of songs. They got a lot of good songs. You have a lot of songs. 120 were selected for this process. 120 songs.
I guess really, right? This is sort of a fool's errand from the start.
It's just kind of a fun way to talk about a bunch of songs. I think you've mentioned...
Track 3:
[31:57] You got me.
Track 6:
[31:57] You got me. Yeah, I think you've talked about it.
It's like, well, yeah, this is 45 today, but next week.
Track 1:
[32:07] It wouldn't make my top 100 or something you know that's um that's pavement fans are a little fickle yeah but but if if this was like the guitar player magazine i'll talk shit on themagain uh top 100 guitar players you know this wouldn't be the one that gets me in the comment section going you're out of your mind what that's no way gotcha so i would read it and i'dgo go yeah did you see the guy did the top 500 guided by voices songs holy shit no i did uh it might have been uh what a challenge some publication some some music magazine and umwe'll have to check that out i consider myself a a fan of a pretty fair weather fan of guided by voices but i do like them now that was a band i tried to get into late and i went i can't there'sno way i can't do it it's too much work and i'm reading this top 500 and like it was crazy to me that his like top 30 i maybe knew two or three songs out of it um wow i have to check this iat least have to check the top 50 out see how many get you in those comments going you're out that's crazy well i'm i'm probably like you in that you know i've got b1000 and i've got umgosh i can't even even think of the other records that i have but uh.
Track 6:
[33:35] I don't know that I could name. I'm a bad fan here because I don't know if I could name 50.
I don't know if I could name 50. They have tricky names to recall at times as well. Yeah.
Yeah. So this, right, I think this is certainly an easier undertaking.
Makes more sense to me to do the top 50 pavement than top 500.
I mean, at least here you can go like, the difference between, you know, 30 and 25 makes sense on a top 500.
What is 450 to 442?
Like, what is that? That's right. How do you even quantify?
Track 3:
[34:22] But again...
Track 6:
[34:23] Well, most people had difficulty doing 20. Most people had difficulty doing 20 ranked, which is what I asked for.
I asked for 20 rank songs and then i would get emails from people i'd be like dude just do your do your top five and then add another 15 songs you know like because like you said it'stough once you get to a certain point you know like what is 17 you know what i mean out of 20 and i think this is a band where you go like if i'm in a bummer mood they've got themthey've got songs for that and if i'm if i'm wanting to have a have a good fun party time that's a different different set of of songs um major leagues was my that was my most played onspotify last year oh cool all right because you get that uh report at the end of the year right so yeah we'll see, hopefully that that makes it somewhere i guess i guess uh that would havemade it easier for me because yeah how would i pick a number one i guess if i listen to that the most i that would be your number one for 2023 i guess so i guess yeah well matt f basler uhit's been great talking to you about pavement and i really i really appreciate your time this this podcast season two here of meeting malchus is is entirely uh shouldered by the guests so uhyou did a you did a formidable job, and I appreciate that a lot.
[35:51] Is there anywhere that people can find you that you want to be found, or is there anything project-wise that you're working on that you want to talk about.
Track 4:
[36:01] Or anything like that?
Track 6:
[36:03] Yeah! Matt F. Bosler everywhere. We're a band, I suppose.
Track 4:
[36:08] Matt F.
Track 6:
[36:08] Bosler is a band and a me, and we're doing songs and, I think I could see, I'm not going to say if you like Pavement, you'll like my stuff, but I think if someone was listing bandsthey liked, it would sound crazy if someone said, I like Pavement, Matt F. Bosler.
It wouldn't be whiplash for someone to mention those two things sonically together.
We just did, a couple years ago, though, we did a synth album of covers of modern country songs about beating people up.
So that's maybe a little bit out there. Can you find it on Bandcamp?
Track 4:
[37:01] Yeah.
Track 6:
[37:02] Yeah, yeah. It's everywhere. Spotify, Apple Music, all that.
That and then as an apology to country music for making a mockery we did then we made a an album of country originals whoa so we're doing a lot of stuff we're doing some some crazystuff out there that's cool i hope i hear you on the pod list this year do you know what the pod list is, no so every year i do something called a pod list for my birthday and i solicit tracksfrom, talented pavement uh fans and they do covers and then i put all the covers together in a podcast playlist or a pod list and uh i get it sequenced by somebody who who uh i get itsequenced by somebody who knows sequencing and uh it's usually pretty fucking fun that's wonderful wonderful i have a podcast i guess that'll be july podcast i'm not good at namingthings so yeah it is just matt f bosler's podcast or you're really good at naming things well sandy and kevin are okay they named me so mom and dad yeah yeah all right brother well it'sgreat talking to you like i said uh that's what i've got for you this this week.
Track 3:
[38:27] So stay cool and wash your goddamn hands.
Thanks for listening to meeting Malcolm is a pavement podcast, where we count down the top 50 pavement tracks as selected by you.
If you've got questions or concerns, please shoot me an email JD at meeting Malcolm is.com.
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