MMT50 - 243
This week jD is joined by Pavement super-fan Josh in Pittsburgh to discuss his Pavement origin story and dissect song number 43 on the countdown.
Transcript:
Track 1:
[0:00] Previously on the Pavement Top 50.
Track 2:
[0:02] Okay, so the number 44 track, you've just heard it.
It's Embassy Row, the second song from Bright in the Corners after Blue Hawaiian at number 50 on the countdown.
Scott, what do you think of Embassy Row at number 44?
Embassy Row, I do love. The things I like about it is it kind of lulls you in with this.
I feel Marcus kind of does quite a lot with his lyrics and his melodies.
They're kind of like nursery rhymes, the way they flow. floor and the structure of the set is quite kind of nice.
Track 3:
[0:34] Hey this is Westy from the Rock and Roll Band Pavement and you're listening to The Countdown.
Hey it's JD here back for another episode of our Top 50 Countdown for Seminole Indie Rock Band Pavement.
Track 6:
[0:50] Week over week we're going to count down the 50 essential pavement tracks that you selected with your very own top 20 ballots.
I then tabulated the results using an abacus and strangely a change counter.
And all that's left for us to reveal is this week's track.
How will your favorite song fare in the ranking? You'll need to tune in or whatever the podcast equivalent of tuning in is every week to find out. So there's that.
This week we're joined by Pavement superfan Josh in Pittsburgh.
Josh, how are you doing, motherfucker?
I'm pretty good, JD. How are you doing? i'm great thanks for asking so uh what's the weather like in pittsburgh right now cold it's been below freezing it's been snowy and icy it's a bit of areprieve today is it's only going to be about 32 but then we're supposed to get another like two to four inches in and around the city here in the next couple days oh my gosh we've beenvery fortunate here in toronto it's cold cold as hell but no snow so far like really there's been a couple inches but it's like like not staying on the ground.
Track 3:
[1:56] Yeah.
Track 6:
[1:56] It's just not as much snow as it feels like we had when we were kids. No, definitely not.
It feels like there was like walls of snow when I've traveled my sidewalk. Yeah.
That might be my height. I don't know.
So let's not beat around the bush here. Let's talk about pavement.
Let's hear your pavement origin story.
Well, it starts with Malcolm's self-titled In Earnest. I'll work back a little bit.
Track 1:
[2:30] Sure.
Track 6:
[2:32] Well, I'm 46. I'm a full-blown child of the 90s.
I think i was 13 to 23 in that decade so super formative years yeah um hugely into beastie boys and nirvana and primus all things less claypool all that and um definitely was hearingpavement probably beavis and butthead was maybe my first exposure uh you know cut your hair and i think i remember in college we're like maybe around 98 99 i went down to the localrecord store in burlington vermont and i got um some tapes because i i had unearthed an old walkman and i got like slick rick the artist storytelling and something else and i got crookedrain crooked rain on tape i was like you know i need to i need to get back into this pavement thing a little more and see what's going on and gold sounds became quite an anthem for mei'm um i was a huge fish I'm a big Phish fan, the band Phish.
And I was in Pittsburgh, of course, because I live here, when they played here one summer, and they covered Gold Sounds by Pavement. They did?
And I was just like, you know, worlds colliding in the perfect way.
Yeah, Phish has covered quite a few indie bands. Trey's got a big indie thing.
Malcolmus was at a Phish show recently with Jake.
Track 1:
[3:53] Oh.
Track 6:
[3:54] Wow. Up in Seattle. I know the Jicks drummer. He took him, he's a big Dead and Fish fan, and he took Malcolm to do a show, I think.
[4:02] So, um, you know, they were definitely on the radar, but they weren't like penultimate for me yet. And then, um, I moved out to California after college.
It was 2000 and, uh, I was feeling pretty distant from everything back home on the East coast where I'd lived and grown up.
There was some family stuff going on. I started to feel isolated.
I don't think nine 11 had happened yet, yet but it was just that that whole time in life and um i was feeling kind of just depressed and detached a little bit and then i saw um malchmus onletterman doing uh jenny and the s dog oh shit and i was like oh my god this is so good i was like that's not pavement what's he doing, and he's you know letterman's like he's got a newalbum out and it's great go check it out and i I think I went to Tower Records on Sports Arena Boulevard in San Diego the very next day and got the album.
And it really helped me quite a lot because here I am, this total slacker out in California, no clue what I'm doing.
[5:12] My network's not around me anymore. And I'm like, look at this This guy, Malkmus, you know, the slacker gentleman of our generation here is out here still doing his thing and hesounds great and he looks great.
He's like, you know, I can just, I can keep being me.
I can find my way back. I don't have to like, uh.
[5:34] Make some grand sweeping change in life i can just you know be the aging slacker as well and you know from there i wore that album out self-titled i wore it out me too dug backinto the the pavement catalog full bore uh what was the second jicks album um uh pig lip pig lip wore it out in fact the pig lib with the japanese bonus tracks might be might be it's rightthere at the top of my uh the entire malcolm's pavement catalog that pig lib with japanese bonus tracks maybe my number one go-to yeah but yeah i mean he just he speaks to me i get it ilove it like i said he's the uh he's sort of our gentleman slacker representation for our generation i feel like totally he's the crown prince of indie rock yeah right right for sure or what didcourtney call him courtney called him the clown prince yeah courtney love called him the clown prince of indie rock i think which is fine i mean if anybody's a clown with their makeupand her antics so did you get a chance to see them on the 2010 like i'm guessing you didn't see them earlier on did you see them on the 2010 i never saw pavement until this reunion tour ihad to go to new york city with a buddy in 2010 2010, and he was an acquaintance. He was the only other Pavement fan I knew.
[7:03] He was just another guy I would see at my local bar hang all the time.
You were still in California at the time?
[7:08] I was back in Pittsburgh by now. I was back in Pittsburgh by 06.
[7:12] I was like, dude, Pavement, I'm just going to be in New York.
Let's go. He's like, yeah, I'll go.
But we just weren't close enough friends to formulate the plan and see it through.
I should have just gone on my own or something. But no, I didn't see that 2010 tour.
Where did you see them in 2022 then? I saw them in Detroit.
No, they didn't play in Pittsburgh. Pavement didn't play in Pittsburgh.
I saw Pavement in Detroit and then in D.C.
Oh, cool. Where did they play in D.C.?
Um some old theater i can't remember the name of it right now because it was a great show it was one of the uh you know his whole um uva crew his whole virginia contingent was thereoh wow so i think he really you know laid it on a little bit and you could feel something a little special i I think there was a couple of the more rare songs from the tour, if I remember,from that, database that somebody put together of all the songs that they played.
Track 1:
[8:15] Yeah.
Track 6:
[8:15] That was pretty slick. I drove out there myself. I went to Detroit with my wife. I went to DC solo.
Oh, yeah. I was right in the front row. Got one of these from Bob.
Track 3:
[8:26] Oh.
Track 6:
[8:26] Shit. He's holding up a ping pong ball right now. Oh, yeah. Yeah, one of the autographed ping pong balls.
Yeah, I bought a ticket myself for the second row.
And serendipitously there was nobody in the seat right in front of me in the front row so you were in the front row as soon as they walked out i hopped over my seat i was right in the frontrow right in front of uh mark and rocking out burying my head in the speakers just eating it up oh that's great and i kind of hung around afterwards just kind of coming down before i gotin my car i drove all the way back to pittsburgh myself after dc how big a drive is that four hours, but so i was hanging around just kind of coming down a little bit and um, There's thisdownstairs lounge. I went and got some water, went to the bathroom and they cleared everybody out of this lounge real suddenly.
And I go upstairs and you see this whole crew of people with pavement intermingled.
And I was like, oh, that's his, that's his like friends and family, Virginia crew right there or something.
Very neat. Yeah. You didn't, you didn't elbow your way in.
I was like, I wonder if I could just sneak into that line and get back down in the lounge.
And they'd be like, wait, who are you? I was like, I'm about the right age.
I could probably just mix right in. They'd be like, which one are you again?
Track 1:
[9:42] Yeah.
Track 6:
[9:43] Oh, I was a major in history. Yeah, Josh from Lit, remember?
What's your record? Which is the record that you go to the most often? For Pavement? Yeah.
Track 1:
[9:59] Yeah um you know i've got these playlists on my apple music that is just one's malt miss and it's everything he's ever done one's like malk only one's pavement only so most of thetime i just hit shuffle and let it go i'm one of those the same thing, unapologetic fans that i can't like everybody's like what's your least favorite album like what What are you talkingabout?
Track 6:
[10:23] Yeah. But, you know, it changes. Wowie Zowie's always near the top.
Crooked Rain's always near the top. But it's really hard to say my go-to.
Yeah. It's a Sophie's Choice for sure. Yeah.
Track 1:
[10:39] Yeah.
Track 6:
[10:39] I feel like they're 1 and 1A at the very least.
For me, it's Bright in the Corner and Watery Domestic. Oh, well, the Watery Domestic EP is hands down.
Track 5:
[10:53] The best collection of songs that they you know right a little four song ep that's i mean if if we're counting that then that's the go-to that's my number one pavement recording from1990 to 92 they were so prolific yeah and so much of it was great and then they follow that up with crooked rain and it's like just what an embarrassment of wealth i know slanted and theyjust they came out swinging yeah absolutely so should we flip the script today and talk about our featured song of the week which is track number 43 let's do it let's do it okay so we'll takea quick break and we'll talk to you on the other side sounds good hey this is bob mustanovich from pavement thanks for listening and now on with a countdown 43.
Track 6:
[15:10] All right, that was the fifth track from Bright in the Corners, Old to Begin.
It's our third song from Bright in the Corners on the countdown so far.
Of course, number 50 was Blue Hawaiian.
And just last week, we listened to Embassy Row at number 44.
So here we are with Old to Begin, Josh in Pittsburgh.
What do you think of this as track number 43?
I love it. i love it it was in my uh top 20 oh wow okay yeah i was kind of sitting at my uh desk at work thinking about where i rank these songs and set you back set you back set you backjust kept ringing in my head it's not a you know it's probably lower down in my 20 but it's in my 20 for sure it's um it's great it's got kind of all of those pavement elements to it it does thesort of loud quiet loud thing really.
[16:14] Well um i'm a bit of a gearhead i think you can hear probably i want to say the crowther hot cake was one of their go-to overdrive pedals but there was um um something else ithink it's called the j drive which is another drive pedal that malchus had used in pavement era early jicks maybe um you can really hear the guitars crunching yeah um and then that last30 seconds.
[16:43] I you know that's that classic while we buy the ticket and take the ride kind of pavement stuff where they just devolve into that you know symphonic chaos chaos malcolm is doingthat perfectly affected kind of uh vocal whine and grind that he kind of can peel out there um that's so shrill and punky right yeah absolutely and yet the lyrics he's singing are like la la layou know so it's like this uh this um strange dichotomy of sounds going going on you know yeah it's good i mean you know juxtaposition i guess that's uh attention element yeah youknow that's good stuff uh the lyrics yeah the lyrics are um, You know, I think the easy go-to there is that it's sort of a, maybe not quite a love song, but a dedication, you know, relationship,aging, all that sort of stuff.
But I've kind of always had this thought that you could view this song, if you wanted to, maybe as a relationship and a critique that Malcolm X has with art and culture.
Track 1:
[18:07] Oh.
Track 6:
[18:08] Expand on this. Well, you know, sort of metaphorically and even straightforwardly, the lyrics definitely have a lot of art sort of bent in reference to them.
Sure, I can see that. Summary acts, narrative age.
Track 2:
[18:27] You know.
Track 6:
[18:28] Fixture set in 1966. I kind of have always had this low-key thought that maybe he's sort of lamenting, because I mean, we know that he loves art and culture, literature, theater,worked in the museum.
You know, we know that he's quite a literate dude, definitely knows what's happening, I think, in the art and culture worlds at all times.
And we also know that he's the kind of guy that is easily bored and dismissive of things that he maybe thinks are a little derivative or that sort of thing.
And if you kind of think about that when you listen to these lyrics, you can kind of maybe, skew it that he's bored with theater and art, that it's in a rut, that it's stuck in some old ways thatit's, you know.
Track 3:
[19:22] Um.
Track 6:
[19:23] I don't need your summary acts to give into the narrative age.
Like he doesn't want somebody just cramming the things down his throat.
He, you know, he wants people to approach art differently.
Track 1:
[19:36] And, you know.
Track 6:
[19:37] Overlay their own ideas, map their own feelings and thoughts onto something that's, I don't think he likes when an artist hands it to you on a platter, certainly with his lyrics.
I think he leaves a lot sort of open to interpretation by keeping it intentionally vague and distorted.
So I've kind of always had this thought in the back of my mind that, you know.
Track 2:
[20:00] Maybe he's complaining about some art and culture going on at the time that it's just it's stuck in a rut it's too straightforward in your face, you're watching them reinvent the wheelyeah right right um and you know set your back set old to begin like you know somebody presents some new play or some new piece and it's already it's been done it's old to begin we'veseen this we have this somebody needs to move art forward forward this is good yeah that's sort of been something i always thought that's a little, outside of the going ideas about old tobegin yeah when you get to that last part and it certainly feels a little more on the nose with uh you know all those things that can get you bored with a you know a physical lovingrelationship with a partner um latent cause menopause cause.
Track 6:
[20:56] Stress, credit card debt, all that sort of stuff that he talks about.
But even still, I mean, if you're an aging artist and you're approaching middle life and, you know, maybe you feel that you've lost that youthful exuberance and desire to dig in and find andcreate something new, you know, what slows anybody down from anything they love, be it a person, in be it their output in life it's you know it's all this getting old crap that we have todeal with.
[21:28] I'm staring 50 in the in the barrel right now july i turned 50 so yeah i get it i get that yeah, yeah that's real because to me his lyrics are tough to tough to rifle through this song isprobably the most um like forward straightforward in in a sense like not not using your theory just looking at the lyrics straight ahead there's a lot of references to age age and that sort ofthing you know we hear about menopause we hear about set in 1966 we hear of course old to begin um you know a senior a senile genius uh we don't get a lot of that in malcolm is songslike i i don't find like where there's a lot of consistency with the lyrics so i can see See how you can take a surface look or go deeper like you did, and you're likely to be satisfied in eithercase, whereas a lot of times his lyrics aren't, without sounding negative, aren't necessarily satisfying because you're left scratching your head.
You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
[22:53] And, you know, I do also look at the song very much on its surface because, you know, as I was saying in my little back history there.
Track 1:
[23:04] I was kind of dealing with getting older and.
Track 6:
[23:08] You know, leaving sort of the college life and East Coast life behind when I was out West and kind of unsure about what I was going to do or supposed to do. So, you know, like Isaid, his really his whole vibe really helped me kind of reconcile with all that.
So I do love the lyrics on their surface, too, for that, because.
Yeah, I mean, he's he's dealing with the same thing. You're almost 50. I'm 46 now.
Like, I got back pain. I was laid up with back pain a couple of weeks ago for about a day and a half. I got credit card stress, you know.
So it is comforting to take the lyrics very much on their surface.
Yeah. But then he's also talking about, I think, a love life, if you take them like that.
Track 3:
[23:53] Yeah.
Track 6:
[23:53] I think so. And, you know...
Track 3:
[23:58] You want to have a partner to grow old with that helps you feel good you know that you can kind of uh buoy each other and keep each other afloat and moving ahead and you knowif you get, dissatisfied or disenfranchised with your partner like i think maybe on its surface is some of the stuff being talked about here that can be really a lot to contend with uh what'sone of those lyrics in there find your identical twin or you know that's another thing that's one of those things that line right there i can never decide if he's saying finding an identical twinor find an unidentical twin yeah it does sound like.
[24:45] The the the way it rolls off the tongue uh it does sound like unidentical twin the way the way it is time we drifted apart find an unidentical twin is that saying like we're too similarand being too similar is not satisfying you drift apart you want to find somebody less like you somebody different or you know are they drifting apart because one of them's old to beginand he wants something more and maybe he wants to find somebody more like him find an identical twin you know it's uh it's it's just one of those things again with um i and i think heintentionally leaves things a little like the vocal tracks are a little low in the mix or intentionally mumbled or garbled so that you reach a little more you find whatever meaning you needyeah you hear it the way you need to hear it yeah yeah i think it's a that is a great song one of my favorites all my gear in my house is named after a piece of pavement a pavement song somy backup drive is called old to begin oh perfect yeah my uh, my fantasy football team is named the stockton hex oh nice.
[26:01] How are you doing uh or how did how yeah i guess okay i've got i'm kind of uh obsessed with fantasy football i got a couple different teams they're all named stockton hex and theyall have the rooster from watery domestic as my team logo oh that's brilliant you know i do well enough i keep entertained i don't uh i win a little money here and there oh you're playingfor scratch i like it yeah but yeah i i have the same sort of tendencies to name a lot of playlists and and and items and things for you know song and music references fish pavement beastieboys yeah cool yeah well Well.
Track 6:
[26:40] I'm going to guess that my next question, I already know the answer to my next question, really, because you had this song inside your top 20.
So my next question is, do you think the song is properly rated?
And I'm guessing you would say no, because at 43, it's well beyond the top 20. Yeah.
I do. That's fine. It is properly rated. I'm glad it made the top 50.
You said you got over a hundred songs submitted.
Track 1:
[27:06] Yeah.
Track 3:
[27:07] Yeah.
Track 6:
[27:08] You know, to tell you the truth, I compiled my list, JD. I never actually sent it to you.
I'm such a quintessential slacker that I, uh, I worked on it and worked on it and it was sitting on my desktop at work.
And I was like, uh, you know, I never did send that thing in, which, uh, makes me feel, you know, maybe, uh, maybe I could have of bumped uh old to begin up a slot or two um one ofmy personal favorite deep tracks greenlander i wonder if it uh if it appeared at least in your 100 or so i've got a i gotta pay my three bucks and get back into the um uh bonus feed so i canlisten to 50 through 100 i think i heard you mention you're doing those yeah it starts this friday yeah um you know i feel like i should have got my list in there to do a little service to acouple of my deeper cuts personally but yeah i think as far as the general fan base i think probably old to begin is fairly rated i you know i know uh you're a brighton guy i love all thealbums almost equally but i think probably brighton is near the bottom of most pavement fans list if you ask like it yeah and so for any, any brighton song to make it in the 50 you got tofeel pretty good for them yeah i think so Well, yeah, and quite a few made it in.
Track 1:
[28:27] Yeah.
Track 6:
[28:28] Well, there's definitely a few bangers on there. Yeah, agreed.
Track 1:
[28:33] Well.
Track 6:
[28:34] Is there any place that people can track you down or that you would want to be tracked down on the internet or anything like that?
I just live in Pittsburgh. I work my job. I raise my family.
So if I come to town, I'll take me for a Formanti Brothers? Yeah, absolutely.
[28:52] Yeah, you know what? But if I was going to stump for anything, I had tickets for the Trad Tech Tour that got canceled due to COVID. Oh, me too.
And if anybody's going to log in anywhere and search for anything or leave a message, let's all try to hit up Malkness and Sweeney and those guys and tell them to get it back together andget out there and give us that Trad Tech Tour, man.
I want to hear those two guys shredding the guitar together.
That's a strong record. That's a really strong record. Yeah. Yeah.
I had tickets too. I forget where, I think probably Cleveland and maybe Detroit.
You know, I try to hit them if they come to Pittsburgh, great.
And if they hit any of those sort of rust belt cities within my reach, I hit them up. So if traditional techniques tours around or if pavement comes around again, we'll try to...
[29:42] Hit them up together. If you come to Pittsburgh, yeah, we'll go to Permanente's.
Ah, love it. I love the ballpark there.
I'm a baseball guy and you have a gorgeous ballpark. You got my email.
Anytime you're going to be in Pittsburgh for anything, drop me a line. Will do. Awesome.
Well, it was great talking to you today. Yeah, you too. All right, brother.
I guess here comes the outro. Oh, one last thing since the outro is probably coming up. I don't know if this is the same for everybody else, but I don't hear carrot rope the same anymore.
Oh, really? I hear you. you. I hear your voice.
This has been Meeting Malcomus, a pavement podcast. I hear it every time.
Oh, I'm sorry I ruined the song. No, it's great. I love it. I love it.
All right, brother. Talk to you soon.
Track 3:
[30:25] Yeah, you too.
Track 6:
[30:26] JD. Thanks a lot, man. Take care and wash your goddamn hands.
Track 3:
[30:29] Yeah, wash your goddamn hands. Thanks for listening to Meeting Malcomus, a pavement podcast Podcast, where we count down the top 50 pavement tracks as selected by you.
If you've got questions or concerns, please shoot me an email, jd at meetingmalkmus.com.
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