We talk with New Testament scholar Scot McKnight about his new translation of the New Testament, entitled The Second Testament: A New Translation, and why encountering the strangeness of the Bible can help us to read it anew.

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What if the imperfections and contradictions in Scripture aren't an accident? What if they were allowed to be there by the Holy Spirit in order to draw us beyond the literal words on the page and deeper into the spiritual truth God is trying to teach us? As provocative or unorthodox as that might sound, it is in fact a very ancient way of understanding what it means for the Bible to be divinely inspired.

We talk with Zack Hunt about these topics, which he covers in his book Godbreathed: What It Really Means For the Bible To Be Inspired.

Zack Hunt graduated from Trevecca Nazarene University with an undergraduate double major in Religion and History. He also holds a graduate degree in Theology as well as an additional graduate degree in Christian History from Yale Divinity School. He's appeared in Rolling Stone, The Boston Globe, Huff Post, and wrote a book narrating his faith deconstruction vis a vis the book of Revelation entitled Unraptured. He's interested in the intersection of faith and politics, and smoking BBQ.

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In response to our conversation with Chris Green, we've received a couple questions asking for examples of how this "new/old" way of interpreting the Scriptures works. So we used a recent sermon from Matt on 2 Samuel 21:1-14 (David avenging the Gibeonites) as an example and talked about the implications.

Here's a link to Matt's original sermon, if you'd like to listen:

Rizpah, David, And The Good Work Of Shame To Oppose Injustice

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As part of our series on the Bible, we talk with Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg about Jewish interpretation of Scripture, repentance and forgiveness, and some of the commons things Christians miss in the Hebrew Scriptures (aka the Old Testament).

Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg is author of numerous books, including On Repentance and Repair: Making Amends in an Unapologetic World--winner of the National Jewish Book Award, and American Library Association's Honor Medal, and hailed by Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley as “A must read for anyone navigating the work of justice and healing.” She serves as Scholar in Residence at National Council of Jewish Women (NCJW).

You can subscribe to her Substack newsletter here.

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“Scripture is a spring of life-giving, life-altering truth, but when we don’t understand how and why it came to us, we end up misusing it.”

Karen Keen joins us to talk about how we got the Bible, why that matters, and how history shows us that Scripture can be used for both life-giving and destructive purposes. Karen's book The Word of a Humble God: The Origins, Inspiration, and Interpretation of Scripture, helps readers to discover the Bible’s origins, which makes all the difference for fostering redemptive interpretation of Scripture.

Karen R. Keen is a biblical scholar, author, and spiritual care provider. She has taught biblical and theological studies in both academic and church settings. Keen is passionate about making scholarship accessible in ways that positively impact everyday life. Founder of the Redwood Center for Spiritual Care and Education, she works to advance spiritual wellness and Christian formation. Keen earned her M.S. in education (counseling) from Western Oregon University, M.A. in exegetical theology from Western Seminary, and Th.M. in biblical studies from Duke Divinity School.

You can find Karen online at karenkeen.com and redwoodspiritualcare.com.

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As part of our series on reading and interpreting the Bible, we talk with pastor Melissa Florer-Bixler about how to find God in the Old Testament, reading it as a Christian without succumbing to the pitfalls of antisemitism and supercessionism. She wrote about these issues in her book Fire by Night: Finding God in the Pages of the Old Testament.

Melissa is the pastor of Raleigh Mennonite Church, and a graduate of Duke University and Princeton Theological Seminary. She spent times studying in Israel/Palestine, Kenya, and England. Much of her formation took place in the L'Arche community of Portland, OR. Now she prefers the Eno River and her garden in Raleigh, NC. She is the chair of L'Arche North Carolina and a steering committee member in broad-based organizing in her county. Melissa's writing has appeared in Christian Century, Sojourners, Geez, Anabaptist Witness, The Bias, Faith&Leadership, and Anabaptist Vision.

You can connect with Melissa and her work by subscribing to her Substack newsletter.

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To kick off our series on reading and interpreting the Bible, we talk with pastor and professor Chris Green about how his reading of the Bible has changed over the years from his upbringing in pentecostal holiness to his recent consecration as an Anglican bishop. We touch on how to read disturbing texts, as well as other elements of his book Sanctifying Interpretation: Vocation, Holiness and Scripture.

Chris Green is Professor of Public Theology at Southeastern University (Lakeland, FL), Bishop of the Diocese of St Anthony (CEEC), and Director for St Anthony Institute of Theology, Philosophy, and Liturgics. He is the author and editor of a number of books, including most recently All Things Beautiful: An Aesthetic Christology.

You can connect with Chris and his work on his website.

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Critical race theory (CRT) has become a lightning rod in contemporary American politics and evangelical Christianity. In this interview, Dr, Robert Chao Romero and Dr. Jeff Liou offer a critical but constructive and sympathetic introduction to CRT written from a perspective rooted in Scripture and Christian theology, moving us beyond caricatures and misinformation to consider how critical race theory can be an analytical tool to help us understand persistent inequality and injustice--and to see how Christians and churches working for racial justice can engage it in faithful and constructive ways. These themes are covered in their book Christianity and Critical Race Theory: A Faithful and Constructive Conversation

Dr. Robert Chao Romero is associate professor in the UCLA dept of Chicana/o, Central American, and Asian American Studies; director of the Brown Church Initiative, Fuller Theological Seminary; an attorney; and author of the award-winning book Brown Church: Five Centuries of Latina/O Social Justice, Theology, and Identity. You can connect with him and find out more about his work on his website.

Dr. Jeff M. Liou is national director of theological formation for InterVarsity Christian Fellowship/USA and adjunct assistant professor of Christian ethics at Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, California. He cofounded the Asian American Christian Collaborative and writes on race and justice, Asian American Christianity, theological ethics, and political theology. Ordained in the Christian Reformed Church, Liou has served as a campus minister, pastor, and university chaplain.

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CW: Domestic violence and abuse.

On any given Sunday morning, a pastor can look over the 100 members of the congregation and see 25 women and 14 men who have been crippled by domestic violence and trauma--no matter the race or socio-economic group. The church is more than a hospital for sinners, it is also an emergency room for those who have been sinned against. But emergency rooms are not the place for long-term care. More is needed.

Dr. Christy Gunter wrote Survivor Care: What Religious Professionals Need to Know about Healing Trauma especially for this purpose. She writes for Christian mental health professionals and students, counselors, therapists, psychologists, and pastors, laying out a framework and shows why issues related to violence and abuse continue to plague our society.

Dr. Christy Gunter is the director of Client Services at an agency that serves families of Domestic and Family Violence in DFW. She's the author of "Survivor Care: What Religious Professionals Need to Know about Healing Trauma" and has her doctorate in Global Health and Wellness, a M. Div., and a Master of Social Work with over 500 additional hours of specialized training in violence, assault, trauma-informed care, and other related topics.

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That love does not control seems obvious to many people. And yet the temptation to control—often with good motives — is strong. The long-term results of yielding to this temptation damage everyone.

Thomas Oord and Christy Gunter join us to talk about uncontrolling love from a theological and therapeutic perspective. They are both contributers to Love Does Not Control: Therapists, Psychologists, and Counselors Explore Uncontrolling Love.

Dr. Christy Gunter is the director of Client Services at an agency that serves families of Domestic and Family Violence in DFW. She's the author of "Survivor Care: What Religious Professionals Need to Know about Healing Trauma" and has her doctorate in Global Health and Wellness, a M. Div., and a Master of Social Work with over 500 additional hours of specialized training in violence, assault, trauma-informed care, and other related topics.

Thomas Jay Oord is a theologian, philosopher, and scholar of multi-disciplinary studies. Oord is a best-selling and award-winning author, having written or edited more than twenty-five books. Academic Influence ranks him among the most influential theologians in the 21st century. Oord directs a doctoral program at Northwind Theological Seminary and directs the Center for Open and Relational Theology. He is known for his research and writing on love, open and relational theology, science and religion, evil and power, and the implications of freedom and relationships for transformation.

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We talk with Dr. Janyne McConnaughey about her book Trauma in the Pews: The Impact on Faith and Spiritual Practices, which is a practical and compassionate roadmap for spiritual leaders to effectively minister to those struggling with the effects of trauma.

Janyne McConnaughey, PhD is a trauma survivor who draws from her life-long involvement in church ministries to train teachers and ministry workers at colleges and universities and serves on the Board for the Attachment & Trauma Network (ATN) and Distinguished Visiting Professor at Tabor College.

You can connect with Janyne and learn more about her work on her website janyne.org.

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Religious trauma is something that happens far more often than most people realize. In When Religion Hurts You, Dr. Laura Anderson takes an honest look at a side of religion that few like to talk about. Drawing from her own life and therapy practice, she helps readers understand what religious trauma is and isn't, and how high-control churches can be harmful and abusive, often resulting in trauma. She shows how elements of fundamentalist church life--such as fear of hell, purity culture, corporal punishment, and authoritarian leaders--can cause psychological, relational, physical, and spiritual damage.

Dr. Laura Anderson is a psychotherapist, trauma resolution coach and consultant, writer and educator specializing in complex and developmental trauma, dynamics of power and control and religious trauma based out of Nashville, TN.

You can connect with her work on her website drlauraeanderson.com.

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What does it look like to live a flourishing, messy, wonderful life together with our kids? As parents, we’re tasked with nurturing and guiding our children, even as we navigate our own wonderings about faith. In the overwhelm and constant demands of life, is it possible to tend to our own souls and to our family’s flourishing?

Kayla Craig's book Every Season Sacred is a weekly invitation to grow spiritually alongside our children. Blending thoughtful musings and practical resources, author Kayla Craig meets parents right where they are.

Kayla Craig is a former journalist who brings deep curiosity and care to her writing. She's the author of Every Season Sacred and To Light Their Way. With a poetic, prophetic voice, she created the popular Liturgies for Parents Instagram account, which Christianity Today named an "essential parenting resource." She also hosts the Liturgies for Parents podcast. Kayla's nuanced and accessible reflections, essays, and prayers are featured in various books, devotionals, and Bible studies. Kayla lives in a 115-year-old former convent in her Iowa hometown, where she hopes to create spaces of welcome alongside her four children, two dogs, and pastor-husband, Jonny.

Connect with Kayla:

• Visit Kayla Craig's website
• Kayla on Substack
• Kayla on Amazon
• Liturgies for Parents Podcast
• Find Kayla Craig on Facebook
• Follow Kayla Craig on Twitter
• Follow Kayla Craig on Instagram
• Follow Kayla Craig and Liturgies for Parents on Instagram
• Follow Kayla Craig and the Upside Down Podcast on Instagram

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• 
  

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Pastor and discipler E. K. Strawser shows that when discipleship becomes central to your leadership and community, then discipleship becomes central to congregational mission and cultural renewal. Her new book Centering Discipleship is a practice-based guidebook for leaders who are doing the hard work of re-imagining and re-structuring their churches and communities to turn spectators into missional, mature followers of Jesus.

Eun K. Strawser (she/her) is the co-vocational lead pastor of Ma Ke Alo o (which means "Presence" in Hawaiian), non-denominational missional communities multiplying in Honolulu, HI, a community physician at Ke Ola Pono, and an executive leader at the V3 Movement, the church planting arm of the BGAV. Prior to transitioning to Hawaii, she served as adjunct professor of medicine at the Philadelphia College of Medicine and of African Studies at her alma mater the University of Pennsylvania (where she and her husband served with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship) after finishing her Fulbright Scholarship at the University of Dar es Salaam. She and Steve have three, seriously, amazing children.

You can connect with her work on her website centeringdiscipleship.com.

Also, you can help Strawser and her church community (Ma Ke Alo o) in their commitment to respond long-term to the devastation of the Hawaii wildfires by donating using the link below:

​https://impactmissionsmovement.org/hawaii-wildfires/​

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We talked with Rev. Fran Tilton Shelton about the complex nature of grief, and what it looks like to walk through grief with God. Fran expounds on these themes in her book The Spirituality of Grief: Ten Practices for Those Who Remain.

Fran is a founder of Faith & Grief Ministries, and leads bereavement workshops and spiritual retreats. She is a preacher and a keynote speaker at conferences.​

For twenty years, Fran served PC(USA) congregations in Texas, primarily in pastoral care and was affectionately called “Funeral Fran” by the love of her life and last husband, Bob. She has the courage to take deep finesses in duplicate bridge, stamina to be a member of four book clubs and a spirit for life that sparks contagious laughter.

You can reach out to Fran and find out more about her work on her website frantiltonshelton.com.

Show notes:

Here's Ryan Flanigan's poem that he read in the introduction to this episode:

Taking Sides or “On the Side of Good”

Too long have I had to live;

among the enemies of peace.

I am on the side of peace,

  but when I speak of it, they are for war.

- Psalm 120:6-7

Moderacy says don’t take a side—

Neither side is good in everything—

But the thing I’ve noticed in these times

Is, more times than not, one side is vile.

Now, the vile are clear to those who know

Peace, which no one sees with violent heart,

But the heart that seeks to bless instead

Is the steady one who stands with God.

One with God can love an enemy;

As for me, my gut goes after war,

‘Til my warring spirit finds that I

Am the iron-fisted one again.

Then, to gain the favor of the world—

Yea, the world that God the Good so loved—

My belov’d, self-seeking, vengeful hand

Must unhand the weapon that I bear.

For to bear the burden of a friend

Puts a friendly spin on what they see,

But to see a foe through God’s own eyes

Realizes them as one of us.

Furious as I am at your sin,

On my sin I heap much more contempt.

When I’m tempted to abandon love,

Still God’s love demands that I forgive.

So, I give my life to follow Christ

In the Christian act of making peace.

If two pieces cannot reconcile,

May I silo on the side of Good.

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This is a follow-up to our interview with Andrew Whitehead to chat about what the "kingdom antidotes" are for the fear, self-interested power, and violence that animate Christian Nationalism.

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Power. Fear. Violence. These three idols of Christian nationalism are corrupting American Christianity.

Andrew Whitehead is a leading scholar on Christian nationalism in America and speaks widely on its effects within Christian communities. In this book, he shares his journey and reveals how Christian nationalism threatens the spiritual lives of American Christians and the church.

Whitehead shows how Christians harm their neighbors when they embrace the idols of power, fear, and violence. He uses two key examples--racism and xenophobia--to demonstrate that these idols violate core Christian beliefs. Through stories, he illuminates expressions of Christianity that confront Christian nationalism and offer a faithful path forward.

American Idolatry encourages further conversation about what Christian nationalism threatens, how to face it, and why it is vitally important to do so. It will help identify Christian nationalism and build a framework that makes sense of the relationship between faith and the current political and cultural context.

Andrew L. Whitehead (PhD, Baylor University) is associate professor of sociology at Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis, where he codirects the Association of Religion Data Archives at the Center for the Study of Religion and American Culture. He is the coauthor of Taking America Back for God: Christian Nationalism in the United States, which won the 2021 Distinguished Book Award from the Society for the Scientific Study of Religion. Whitehead has written for the Washington Post, NBC News, Time, and Religion News Service and speaks frequently about Christian nationalism.

Connect with Andrew on Twitter or Instagram.

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Immersed in his physics studies at Cornell, Tom Rudelius never thought much about God until his brother, a new convert to Christianity, challenged him to explore faith. To placate his twin, he reluctantly began exploring the Bible and the life of Jesus. Seeking proof of God's existence, he found himself in a world of uncertainty, faced with plenty of reasons for both faith and doubt.

In Chasing Proof, Finding Faith, Tom, now a rising young theoretical physicist, traces his journey to unexpected faith, through subsequent doubt and anxiety, and ultimately to a firmer, life-transforming allegiance to Jesus.

Tom Rudelius completed his undergraduate work at Cornell, earned a doctorate in physics at Harvard, and has conducted postdoctoral research at the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, New Jersey. Currently a postdoctoral researcher in theoretical physics at the University of California, Berkeley, Tom will begin a faculty position at Durham University (UK) in the fall of 2023. His research focuses on string theory, quantum field theory, and early universe cosmology. A man of faith and an avid sports fan, he is frequently requested to speak on topics related to science and faith. He is also on the board of the Mamelodi Initiative, a tutoring organization based in Mamelodi, South Africa.

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We are re-posting our 4-part series with Dr. Nathan Cartagena on Critical Race Theory (CRT) from a couple years ago. This is Part 4, where we talk we talk about why this all matters for the church.

Dr. Cartagena is an Assistant Professor of Philosophy at Wheaton College (IL), where he teach courses on race, justice, and political philosophy. He also serves as the faculty advisor for Unidad Cristiana, a student group working to enhance Christian unity and celebrate Latina/o cultures. Connect with Dr. Cartagena at his website or on Twitter.

More info on critical race theory:

• Sojo article: Why Nathan Cartagena Teaches Critical Race Theory to Evangelicals
• What is Critical Race Theory? by Nathan Cartagena Part 1
• What is Critical Race Theory? by Nathan Cartagena Part 2
• What is Critical Race Theory? by Nathan Cartagena Part 3
• What is Critical Race Theory? by Nathan Cartagena Part 4

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We are re-posting our 4-part series with Dr. Nathan Cartagena on Critical Race Theory (CRT) from a couple years ago. This is Part 3, where Dr. Cartagena continues to outline a brief history of white supremacy in the United States (using lots of original sources). It's REALLY eye-opening.

Dr. Cartagena is an Assistant Professor of Philosophy at Wheaton College (IL), where he teach courses on race, justice, and political philosophy. He also serves as the faculty advisor for Unidad Cristiana, a student group working to enhance Christian unity and celebrate Latina/o cultures. Connect with Dr. Cartagena at his website or on Twitter.

More info on critical race theory:

• Sojo article: Why Nathan Cartagena Teaches Critical Race Theory to Evangelicals
• What is Critical Race Theory? by Nathan Cartagena Part 1
• What is Critical Race Theory? by Nathan Cartagena Part 2
• What is Critical Race Theory? by Nathan Cartagena Part 3
• What is Critical Race Theory? by Nathan Cartagena Part 4

Connect with Gravity Leadership

• Leave us a message or ask a question about this or any other episode and we'll answer it on a future episode.
• Join our online community for free to get a curated list of interesting and edifying links each week, plus all kinds of other goodies.
• Check out the Gravity Commons, a place to connect and learn with others in the Gravity community.
• Check out Gravity Leadership Academy, our 12-month training intensive for Christian leaders who want to bring lasting transformation to their culture.
• Are you interested in advertising on the Gravity Leadership Podcast? Contact us at podcast@gravityleadership.com.

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/gravity-leadership-podcast/donations

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