Aaron welcomes Dr. Marina Zilbergerts to the podcast. Aaron and Marina each read a poem written by the other about creation and delve into the depths of what it means to begin.

General Overview

Aaron Rotenberg and Dr. Marina Zilbergerts read poems inspired by Bereishit and consider divine likeness, chaos, creation, and the mysteries of parenthood. Their interpretations connect the poems to biblical and rabbinic images, including the primordial waters, Aaron’s staff, the tanninim, and the whale, while reflecting on intimacy, uncertainty, and the boundary between inner and outer life.

Divine Likeness and Desire

In Marina’s poem “Creation,” the Creator forms humanity in the divine likeness and teaches humanity what the Creator likes. Aaron and Marina consider whether likeness carries an expectation that people will do what God desires, and whether the poem’s language of likeness also evokes simile. Aaron suggests that creation might be understood as God’s simile or poem, while Marina notes that an imitation can fall short of its model and leave its creator unfulfilled.

Chaos, Boundaries, and the Creator’s Circles

Marina’s image of gathering waters from the deep evokes the tehom and the forces of chaos that God bounds throughout the Tanach. Aaron reads the gathering as making focused space for creation, while Marina also considers the waters as a force of creativity. The Creator’s endless circles suggest both tzimtzum and the disorientation of wandering; Aaron connects them to Kayin and to Choni HaMa'agal, who binds himself in a circle and challenges God to act.

The poem’s Creator shows a face in darkness, crossing a boundary around divine intimacy. Aaron and Marina consider whether this is a transgression with consequences or a revelation that creates connection. They see the darkness as a place where something can be revealed while still remaining unseen.

The Tanninim and Parenthood

Aaron’s poem “Bereishit” begins with the tannin and describes something unexpected rising from watery depths. Marina connects the poem’s watery sense of time to the tanninim, which Genesis singles out among the creations, and wonders whether they evoke sea monsters, dinosaurs, Leviathan, or the fish that swallows Yonah. Aaron also connects them to his podcast’s interest in his namesake Aaron, whose staff becomes a tannin in Shemot.

Aaron explains that the poem concerns impending fatherhood: the patient figure in the depths is a baby in the womb, learning, forgetting, loving, and relenting. The poem draws on the midrash that a child learns the entire Torah before birth and then forgets it. The speaker’s act of taking down or dropping his stick reflects Aaron’s uncertainty about how to become a father and what to do.

The Whale, Prophecy, and Creative Life

Aaron reads the poem’s “heart of the whale” as the poet’s heart, while Marina connects the whale to Jenny’s pregnancy and the life emerging within her. They consider the heart as a place of mystery, prophecy, and possibly playfulness, recalling the rabbinic image of God playing with Leviathan. Marina sees creation in the exchange between inside and outside, where hidden, chaotic currents become shareable wisdom and return inward.

Aaron asks whether creation requires quieting the storm and setting boundaries around chaos. Marina says that she does not know, but recognizes that creation requires discerning when separation is needed and when things should mix. They close by hoping to find that balance.