- 49. Is God Love or Is God Loving? - Nelson's "Divine Love" of the Gods
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the forty-ninth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (November 27-December 3) is titled “God Is Love” and covers 1-3 John and Jude.
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Pastor Brendon's Colossians series can be found here and/or here.
Pastor Ed Romine's Jude series can be found here and here.
Seminary Manual and here
“Divine Love” (Russell Nelson)
Joseph Smith: here and here; The Lectures on Faith
“Happiness Letter” (also here and here)
"The Light of Christ" (Boyd Packer)
“The Only True God and Jesus Christ Whom He Hath Sent” (Jeffrey Holland)
The Miracle of Forgiveness by Spencer W. Kimball
A Rational Theology by John Widtsoe
The Essential Orson Pratt
Christianity and Liberalism by J. Gresham Machen
Core Christianity by Michael Horton
1, 2, 3 John (NAC) by Daniel Akin
The Gospel and Epistles of John by F.F. Bruce
The Gospel According to John by D.A. Carson
The Difficult Doctrine of the Love of God by D.A. Carson
God in the Whirlwind by David Wells
The Attributes of God; God Is Love by Gerald Bray
Heresies: The Image of Christ in the Mirror of Heresy and Orthodoxy by Harold Brown
Early Christian Doctrines by JND Kelly
The Earliest Christologies by James Papandrea
The Incarnation of God by John Clark and Marcus Peter Johnson
The Gnostic New Age by April DeConick
1h 34m | Nov 27, 2023 - 48. Eternal Progression and the Spirit World; "They" have a Divine Nature - and so do you!
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the forty-eighth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (November 20-26) is titled “Rejoice with Joy Unspeakable and Full of Glory” and covers 1 and 2 Peter.
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Pastor Brendon's Colossians series can be found here and/or here.
Note: the grammatical construction referenced is called Granville Sharp's Rule. (More below)
Seminary Manual: here and here
“Vision of the Redemption of the Dead” (a.k.a. D&C 138); D&C 93;29; 76; 88; 110; 132; 137
Gospel Principles (and here)
“The Vision of the Redemption of the Dead” (M. Russell Ballard)
“The Redemption of the Dead and the Testimony of Jesus” (D. Todd Christofferson)
“The Price of Priesthood Power” (Russell Nelson)
"Life Is Eternal" (Ezra Taft Benson)
“Becoming Like Him” (Scott D. Whiting)
Joseph Smith: here and here; The Lectures on Faith
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, edited by Joseph Fielding Smith
The Words of Joseph Smith, edited by Andrew Ehat and Lyndon Cook
- “If you wish to go where God is, you must be like God, or possess the principles which God possesses. For if we are not drawing towards God in principle, we are going from him and drawing towards the Devil...Search your hearts and see if you are like God. I have searched mine and feel to repent of all my sins...As far as we degenerate from God, we descend to the Devil and lose knowledge. And without knowledge we cannot be saved...Is not God good? Yes; then you be good. If he is faithful, then you be faithful. Add to your faith virtue, to your virtue knowledge, and seek for every good thing....A man is saved no faster than he gets knowledge, for if he does not get knowledge, he will be brought into captivity by some evil power in the other world, as evil spirits will have more knowledge and consequently more power than many men who are on the earth. Hence, it needs revelation to assist us and give us knowledge of the things of God.” (pp. 113-114)
- “It is not wisdom that we should have all knowledge at once presented before us, but that we should have a little. Then we can comprehend it...The principle of knowledge is the principle of salvation. The principle can be comprehended, for anyone that cannot get knowledge to be saved will be damned.The principle of salvation is given to us through the knowledge of Jesus Christ.” (p. 200)
The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
Doctrinal New Testament Commentary by Bruce R. McConkie
“The Only True God and Jesus Christ Whom He Hath Sent” (Jeffrey Holland)
Brigham Young: JD 1.50-51 ;2.137; 4.285, 287-289, 4.371, 9.269
Heber C. Kimball: JD 1. 161, JD 3.125; 4.4-5; 4.329; 5.203
John Taylor: JD 6.163, 17.375; 18.138-39; 22.308-309
Wilford Woodruff: JD 19.229; 22.333-334, 24.54-55
Joseph F. Smith: JD 20.28; 21.10
Gospel Doctrine: Sermons and Writings of Joseph F. Smith
A Rational Theology by John A. Widtsoe
Waiting For World’s End: The Diaries of Wilford Woodruff, edited by Susan Staker
The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson
Elias: An Epic of the Ages by Orson F. Whitney
The Essential Orson Pratt
Gospel Trilogy by Cleon Skousen
“Treasures in the Heavens” by Hugh Nibley
“Becoming Like God” (Gospel Topics Essay)
“The Vision of the Redemption of the Dead (D&C 138)” by Robert L. Millet
“From Obscurity to Scripture: Joseph F. Smith’s Vision of the Redemption of the Dead” by Mary Jane Woodger
Conflict in the Quorum by Gary Bergera
The Mormon Jesus by John Turner; who calls Mormonism “temple Christianity”.
“Wilford Woodruff’s Vision and the Signers of the Declaration of Independence” by Brian Stuy; found in Dimensions of Faith: A Mormon Studies Reader, edited by Stephen C. Taysom
Like A Fiery Meteor: The Life of Joseph F. Smith by Stephen Taysom
Early Mormonism and the Magic World View by D. Michael Quinn
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner
“An Ambivalent Rejection: Baptism for the Dead and the Reorganized Church Experience” by Roger Launius
“Baptism for the Dead: Comparing RLDS and LDS Perspectives” (Grant Underwood)
“Reincarnation In Mormonism” (Sunstone; Kirk Watson and Robert Beckstead)
1, 2 Peter and Jude by Thomas Schreiner
1 Peter: A Commentary by Craig Keener
The Temple and the Church’s Mission by G.K. Beale
Vox Petri by Gene Green; though, also considering Michael Kruger and TCI on 2 Peter.
James White; Jason Wallace (esp on hermeneutics)
“Trichotomy: A Beachhead for Gnostic Influences” by Kim Riddlebarger
The King James Only Controversy by James White
- the author points out that 2 Peter 1.1 is one of the clearest examples of what is called Granville Sharp's Rule.
- "Basically, the rule states that when you have two nouns, which are not proper names (such as Cephas, or Paul, or Timothy), which are describing a person, and are connected by the word 'and,' and the first noun has the article ('the') while the second does not, both nouns are referring to the same person. In our texts, this is demonstrated by 'God' and 'Savior' at Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1. God has the article, it is followed by the word and, and Savior does not have the article. Hence, both nouns are being applied to the same person, Jesus Christ." (p.335)
- More on Granville Sharp here.
Christianity and Liberalism by J. Gresham Machen
Core Christianity; Christless Christianity by Michael Horton (also here and here)
One With Christ by Marcus Peter Johnson
The Incarnation of God by John Clark and Marcus Peter Johnson
Crux, Mors, Inferi by Samuel Renihan
“He Descended to the Dead” by Matthew Emerson
Battle for the Keys by Justin Bass (and here)
The Disobedient Spirits and Christian Baptism by Bo Reicke
1h 33m | Nov 20, 2023 - 47. First Vision(s), and which "Faith" Without Works Is Dead?; Contradiction or Complement?
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the forty-seventh lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (November 13-19) is titled “Be Ye Doers of the Word, and Not Hearers Only” and covers James.
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Pastor Brendon's Colossians series can be found here and/or here.
Accounts of the First Vision; JSH 1
Seminary Manual: here, here and here
“Christ Is Risen; Faith in Him Will Move Mountains” (Russell Nelson)
“The Marvelous Foundation of Our Faith” (Gordon Hinckley)
"Life Is Eternal" (Ezra Taft Benson)
The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
Doctrinal New Testament Commentary by Bruce R. McConkie
“What Faith Is” by Dennis Rasmussen; found in The Lectures on Faith in Historical Perspective, edited by Larry Dahl and Charles D. Tate
An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins by Grant Palmer
“New Light on Mormon Origins from Palymyra (N.Y.) Revival” by Wes Walters
“The Significance of Joseph Smith’s ‘First Vision’ in Mormon Thought” by James Allen
“Another Look at Joseph Smith’s First Vision” by Stan Larson
“Which First Vision Account Should We Believe?” by Lane Thuet
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner
Like A Fiery Meteor: The Life of Joseph F. Smith by Stephen C. Taysom
By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus by Charles Larson (and here)
The Mormon Hierarchy: Wealth and Corporate Power by D. Michael Quinn
Second Anointing: here, here and here
M Russell Ballard and Tim Ballard
Notes on Galatians; What Is Faith?; Christianity and Liberalism by J. Gresham Machen
The Apostolic Preaching of the Cross by Leon Morris
The God Who Justifies by James White
James (TNTC) by Douglas Moo
The Letter of James; Brother of Jesus, Friend of God by Luke Timothy Johnson
Institutes of the Christian Religion by John Calvin
The Letter and the Spirit by Augustine
Greek Grammar: Beyond the Basics by Dan Wallace
Biblical Words and Their Meaning by Moises Silva
Exegetical Fallacies by D.A. Carson
All that Is in God by James Dolezal
Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes by Kenneth Bailey
Histories and Fallacies by Carl Trueman
Jesus' Resurrection and Joseph's Visions by Robert Bowman
1h 29m | Nov 13, 2023 - 46. Power Grab and Double Standards: Lost Patriarchs to Semi-Lost "Doctrine"
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the forty-sixth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Nov.6-12) is titled “An High Priest of Good Things to Come” and covers Hebrews 7-13.
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Pastor Brendon's Colossians series can be found here and/or here.
Seminary Manual and here
General Handbook (esp. here, here, here and here)
D&C 20; 28.13; 68.4; 84;86.8-9; 107; 110; 132; 138; Alma 32; 3 Ne 11
The Words of Joseph Smith, compiled and edited by Andrew Ehat and Lyndon Cook
- At one place – Smith distinguishes between Melchizeedek and the “Aaronic or Levitical” (p. 38-39). Yet, at other places, Smith distinguishes between “Aaron, Abraham, and Melchizedek” - Levitical, Abraham’s “patriarchal power”, and “that of Melchizedek”- and the “three grand orders of priesthood” as “the King of Shalom”, “patriarchal authority”, and Levitical (pp. 244-246).
- “I admit that by reading the scriptures of truth, Saints in the days of Paul could learn beyond the power of contradiction that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had the promise of eternal life confirmed to them by an oath of the Lord. But that promise or oath was no assurance to them of their salvation. But they could, by walking in the footsteps and continuing in the faith of their fathers, obtain for themselves an oath of confirmation that they were meet to be partakers of the inheritance with the Saints in light...will not the same faithfulness, the same purity of heart, and the same faith bring the same assurance of eternal life – and that in the same manner...” (pp.299-300)
True to the Faith, excerpt from “Faith”: “Faith is a gift from God, but you must nurture your faith to keep it strong. Faith is like the muscle of your arm. If you exercise it, it grows strong. If you put it in a sling and leave it there, it becomes weak.”
“Christ Is Risen; Faith in Him Will Move Mountains” (Russell Nelson)
“Faith Is Not by Chance; but by Choice” (Neil Andersen)
“Faith - The Choice Is Yours” (Richar Edgley)
The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
Understanding Paul by Richard Lloyd Anderson
Epistle To the Hebrews by Richard Draper and Michael Rhodes
Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. McConkie; under “Faith” - he includes the heading: “Faith is a gift of God bestowed as a reward for personal righteousness.”
Orson Pratt: JD 19.114
The Lectures on Faith: In Historical Perspective, edited by Larry Dahl and Charles Tate, Jr.
“The ‘Lectures on Faith’: A Case Study in Decanonization” by Richard Van Wagoner, Stephen C. Walker, and Allen D. Roberts
Power From On High: The Development of Mormon Priesthood by Gregory Prince
Lost Legacy: The Mormon Office of Presiding Patriarch by Irene M. Bates and E. Gary Smith
"A Gift Given: A Gift Taken; Washing, Anointing, and Blessing the Sick Among Mormon Women" by Linda King Newell
The Mormon Jesus by John Turner
Conflict in the Quorum by Gary Bergera
Early Mormonism and the Magic World View;The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power; The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power by D. Michael Quinn
Like A Fiery Meteor: The Life of Joseph F. Smith by Stephen Taysom
The Politics of American Religious Identity: The Seating of Senator Reed Smoot, Mormon Apostle by Kathleen Flake
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Sandra and Jerald Tanner
The 1838 Mormon War in Missouri by Steve LeSueur
When Prophecy Fails by Leon Festinger, et al.
What Is Faith?; Christianity and Liberalism by J. Gresham Machen
Popular Misconceptions on Faith; also here
Jason Wallace: here, here; Simply Put
The Temple and the Church’s Mission by G.K. Beale
The Royal Priest: Psalm 110 in Biblical Theology by Matthew Emadi
Hebrews (NIV Application Commentary) by George Guthrie
1h 9m | Nov 6, 2023 - (Bonus ep. 6, pt.2) on Eastern Orthodoxy with Pastor Jason Wallace
Today’s episode is with Pastor Jason Wallace on his recent video The Failure of Eastern Orthodoxy.
We discussed his motivation for making the video, his thoughts about the importance of its content, as well as some of the criticism the video has received. Along the way, we focus on topics such as the work of John of Damascus, the authenticity and validity of The Protoevangelium of James, and the doctrine of theosis.
An Earnest Plea to Roman Catholics
Institutes of the Christian Religion by John Calvin
The Courage To Be Protestant; No Place For Truth by David Wells
Christianity and Liberalism by J. Gresham Machen
Disillusioned: Why I Left the Eastern Orthodox Priesthood and Church by Joshua Schooping
The Patristic Roots of Reformed Worship by Hughes Oliphant Old
War Against the Idols by Carlos Eire
Historical Criticism of the Bible: Methodology or Ideology?; Biblical Criticism on Trial: How Scientific is 'Scientific Theology'? by Eta Linnemann
“Trichotomy: A Beachhead for Gnostic Influences” by Kim Riddlebarger
Who Is My Mother? by Eric Svendsen
By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus by Charles Larson (also here and here)
1h 47m | Nov 2, 2023 - 45. The Passible Mormon-Jesus: From New Age Seances to Loving Executions
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the forty-fifth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Oct. 30 – Nov. 5) is titled “Jesus Christ, ‘the Author of Eternal Salvation’” and covers Hebrews 1-6.
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Pastor Brendon's Colossians series can be found here and/or here.
Correction (of a silly mistake): JS was assassinated on June 27,1844.
Individual and Families; Sunday School (Holland video at bottom; also here)
2 Ne. 2.7, 9.7,26, 25.16; Mosiah 13.28,34; Alma 34.8-12, 42.15,21-31; Mos. 1.33, 3.1-9; D&C 20.17,28; 76; 77.3; 93; 132
True to the Faith, under “Atonement”, regardless of substitutionary language states things like: “To receive this gift, we must meet certain requirements”; and “Through your faith and righteousness and through His atoning sacrifice, all the inequities, injuries, and pains of this life can be fully compensated for and made right.”
“The Light of Christ” (Boyd Packer)
“Atonement of Jesus Christ” (Encyclopedia of Mormonism);“The Only True God and Jesus Christ Whom He Hath Sent” (Jeffrey Holland)
The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
The Words of Joseph Smith compiled and edited by Andrew Ehat and Lyndon Cook
- “Christ, who is the image of man, Is also the express image of his Father’s person. So says Paul. For in him, Christ, dwelt ‘the fulness of the Godhead bodily’. Why? Because he was ‘the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person.’ What person? God’s person.” (p.231)
- “But the holy ghost is yet a Spiritual body and waiting to take himself a body. As the Savior did or as god did or the gods before them took bodies...” (June 16, 1844; p. 382)
- “Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of Probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has.” (August 27, 1843; p. 245)
Joseph Smith: here and here ; The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 38-40
Joseph Smith told Alexander Neibaur that he saw Jesus with a light complexion (white skin) and blue eyes (A.N. Journal, May 24,1844) - thus, looking a lot like...Joseph Smith. Whiteness is also true of Mary in 1 Nephi 11.13-15, who is even claimed by some LDS to actually be from England, based on legend.
Statements of the LDS First Presidency compiled by Gary Bergera
- “Christ’s supreme sacrifice can find full fruition in our lives only as we accept the invitation to follow Him. This call is not irrelevant, unrealistic, or impossible. To follow an individual means to watch him or listen to him closely; to accept his authority, to take him as a leader, and to obey him; to support and advocate his ideas; and to take him as a model. Each of us can accept this challenge.” (Howard W. Hunter, “First Presidency Message”, Ensign, Sept. 1994)
Michael as Adam is agreed upon by all sides of Mormonism.
Brigham Young: JD 1.50-51; 4.53-54; 4.215-220; 13.309; 14.71-72
Amasa Lyman: JD 3.140f; 3.164-177, 213f; 7.296-299
Jedediah M. Grant: JD 1.346; 4.49-51 (Notice the condemnations of occult practices that would include their prophet, Joseph Smith)
Orson Hyde: JD 4.259f
Preface to JD 8 states: "The Journal of Discourses deservedly ranks as one of the standard works of the Church, and every rightminded Saint will certainly welcome with joy every Number as it comes forth from the press as an additional reflector of 'the light that shines from Zion's hill.'"
Brigham Young stated:
- "I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture." (JD 13.95)
- "when they are copied and approved by me they are as good scripture as is couched in this Bible" (JD 13.264)
Young stated in a "Discourse on Marriage" that: "Some years ago I advanced a doctrine with regard to Adam being our Father and our God. That will be a curse to many of the elders of Israel because of their folly with regard to it...It is one of the most glorious revealments of the economy of heaven, yet the world hold it in derision. Had I revealed the doctrine of the baptism for the dead instead [of] Joseph Smith, there are men around me who would have ridiculed the idea until doomsday, but they are ignorant and stupid, like the dumb ass."
The Mediation and Atonement by John Taylor
A Rational Theology; Evidences and Reconciliations by John Widtsoe
Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. McConkie
Understanding Paul by Richard Lloyd Anderson
Epistle To the Hebrews by Richard Draper and Michael Rhodes
A Gospel Trilogy; The First 2,000 Years by Cleon Skousen
Exploring Mormon Thought: Volume 2, The Problems of Theism and the Love of God by Blake Ostler
“The Doctrine of the Firstborn and Only Begotten” by Rodney Turner
“The ‘Moral’ Atonement as a Mormon Interpretation” by Lorin Hansen
Jason Wallace: here, here, here and here
No Man Knows My History by Fawn Brodie
An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins by Grant Palmer
“Early American Influences on the Book of Mormon” by Thomas E. Donofrio
The Mound Builder Myth by Jason Colavito
Conflict in the Quorum by Gary Bergera
Brigham Young: Pioneer Prophet; The Mormon Jesus by John Turner
The Thirteenth Apostle: The Diaries of Amasa M. Lyman, 1832-1877 edited by Scott Partridge (also here)
“Amasa Lyman, The Spiritualist”; “From Apostle to Apostate: The Personal Struggle of Amasa Mason Lyman” by Loretta L. Hefner
Early Mormonism and the Magic World View; The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power; The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power; “LDS Church Authority and New Plural Marriages, 1890-1904" by D. Michael Quinn
Like a Fiery Meteor: The Life of Joseph F. Smith by Stephen Taysom
The Mormon Jesus by John Turner
Wayward Saints by Ronald Walker
The Mountain Meadows Massacre by Juanita Brooks (also here)
Blood of the Prophets: Brigham Young and the Massacre at Mountain Meadows by Will Bagley
“This Is My Doctrine”: The Development of Mormon Theology by Charles Harrell
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? By Jerald and Sandra Tanner
Christianity and Liberalism; The Person of Jesus by J. Gresham Machen
The Gospel According to John (PNTC); The Gagging of God by D.A. Carson
The Cross and the Prodigal by Kenneth Bailey
The Apostolic Preaching of the Cross by Leon Morris
Justin Peters (including a Todd White clip making the point that Holland makes)
Hebrews (NIV Application Commentary) by George Guthrie
The Forgotten Trinity by James White; Simply Trinity by Matthew Barrett
Divine Discourse in the Epistle to the Hebrews by Madison Pierce
The Royal Priest by Matthew Emadi
The Temple and the Church’s Mission by G.K. Beale
Ancient Greek Religion by H.J. Rose
Plutarch and His Intellectual World by Judith Mossman
Destroyer of the Gods by Larry Hurtado
Moralia by Plutarch; “Isis and Osiris”
The Cross Before Constantine by Bruce Longenecker
Plutarch and History by Christopher Pelling
1h 23m | Oct 30, 2023 - (Bonus ep. 6, pt.1) on Eastern Orthodoxy with Pastor Jason Wallace
Today’s episode is with Pastor Jason Wallace on his recent video The Failure of Eastern Orthodoxy.
We discussed his motivation for making the video, his thoughts about the importance of its content, as well as some of the criticism the video has received. Along the way, we focus on topics such as the work of John of Damascus, the authenticity and validity of The Protoevangelium of James, and the doctrine of theosis.
An Earnest Plea to Roman Catholics
Institutes of the Christian Religion by John Calvin
The Courage To Be Protestant; No Place For Truth by David Wells
Christianity and Liberalism by J. Gresham Machen
Disillusioned: Why I Left the Eastern Orthodox Priesthood and Church by Joshua Schooping
The Patristic Roots of Reformed Worship by Hughes Oliphant Old
War Against the Idols by Carlos Eire
Historical Criticism of the Bible: Methodology or Ideology?; Biblical Criticism on Trial: How Scientific is 'Scientific Theology'? by Eta Linnemann
“Trichotomy: A Beachhead for Gnostic Influences” by Kim Riddlebarger
Who Is My Mother? by Eric Svendsen
By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus by Charles Larson (also here and here)
1h 29m | Oct 26, 2023 - 44. What is Mormon Doctrine?
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the forty-fourth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Oct. 23-29) is titled “Be Thou an Example of the Believers” and covers 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus - and they mention the name of the book Philemon on the title page.
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Pastor Brendon's Colossians series can be found here and/or here.
Correction: Every time Skyler said "Rasban", he actually meant to say "Renlund" (who's talk is cited below). Although both are equally boring - they may not be equally Jacobin. Being baptized "for the remission of sins" (understood as, by the correct priesthood authority claimed, the sins are washed away) being so common in the experience of nearly every LDS (ever) to the point of raising the question of the limits of needed documentation - it should be said that, technically, the True to the Faith manual states: "Because you have been baptized, you can receive the remission of your sins." Can implies a potential, rather than a guarantee. Thus, perhaps this change has been in the works longer than previously realized.
Also, the recent talk on “the Gathering” that was mentioned was actually by D. Todd Christofferson (who's talk is also cited below).
D&C 132; original D&C 101; D&C 26.2; D&C 28.13; D&C 1.38;D&C 68.4
Sunday School Manual: here, here, here and here
True To the Faith: A Gospel Reference
Preach My Gospel ; Gospel Principles
The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
Understanding Paul by Richard Lloyd Anderson
The Articles of Faith; The Articles of Faith by James Talmage
“Articles of Faith: Know What We Believe” (Spencer Kimball)
“Eternal Truth” (John Pingree, Jr.)
“Trial of Your Faith” (Neil Andersen)
“The Doctrine of Christ” ; “The Sealing Power” (D. Todd Christofferson)
“Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet” (Ezra Taft Benson)
“The Love and Laws of God” (Russell Nelson)
“Living in the Fulness of Times” (Gordon Hinckley)
Russell Nelson statement: “If you think the Church is fully restored, you’re just seeing the beginning...”
“Kingdoms of Glory” (Dallin Oaks)
“Jesus Christ Is the Treasure” (Dale Renlund)
Tim Ballard and his personal connections to M. Russell Ballard: here and here, e.g.
"Stand As True Millennials" (Russell Nelson); also here, and here
"A Triumph of Faith: Paul's Teachings in Second Timothy" by John Scott; found in The Apostle Paul: His Life and Testimony which was the 23rd Annual Sidney B. Sperry Symposium
HC 6.366; wherein Joseph Smith states: “I never told you I was perfect; but there is no error in the revelations which I have taught.” Joseph Smith also taught “that a prophet was a prophet only when he was acting as such.” (HC, 5:265.)
Evidences and Reconciliations; A Rational Theology by John Widtsoe
Mormon Doctrine; “All Are Alike unto God” by Bruce R. McConkie (notice: “They don’t matter anymore. It doesn’t make a particle of difference what anybody ever said about the Negro matter before the first day of June of this year, 1978. It is a new day and a new arrangement...”)
"Finding Answers to Gospel Questions" (Bruce R. McConkie), esp. see section no.3. - wherein he quotes Joseph Fielding Smith (who would become a president-prophet of the LDS chuch) as saying: "It makes no difference what is written or what anyone has said, if what has been said is in conflict with what the Lord has revealed, we can set it aside. My words, and the teachings of any other member of the Church, high or low, if they do not square with the revelations, we need not accept them. Let us have this matter clear. We have accepted the four standard works as the measuring yardsticks, or balances, by which we measure every man’s doctrine." Yet, how does this square with Joseph Smith, Brigham Young - and even points taught by Ezra T. Benson cited above.
"The Place of the Living Prophet, Seer, and Revelator" (Harold B. Lee); one pertinent quote by Pres. Lee is: "The only one authorized to bring forth any new doctrine is the President of the Church, who, when he does, will declare it as revelation from God, and it will be so accepted by the Council of the Twelve and sustained by the body of the Church."
Preface to JD 8 states: "The Journal of Discourses deservedly ranks as one of the standard works of the Church, and every rightminded Saint will certainly welcome with joy every Number as it comes forth from the press as an additional reflector of 'the light that shines from Zion's hill.'"
Brigham Young stated:
- "I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture." (JD 13.95)
- "when they are copied and approved by me they are as good scripture as is couched in this Bible" (JD 13.264)
Brigham Young: JD 1.50-51; 9.149-150; 9.289; 10.251; 11.375; 11.269,272; 13.95; 13.264; 18.359
Young stated in a "Discourse on Marriage" that: "Some years ago I advanced a doctrine with regard to Adam being our Father and our God. That will be a curse to many of the elders of Israel because of their folly with regard to it...It is one of the most glorious revealments of the economy of heaven, yet the world hold it in derision. Had I revealed the doctrine of the baptism for the dead instead [of] Joseph Smith, there are men around me who would have ridiculed the idea until doomsday, but they are ignorant and stupid, like the dumb ass."
Heber C. Kimball: JD 3.125; 5.203
Joseph F. Smith: JD 20.28; 21.10
Messages of the First Presidency, compiled by James Clark; specifically – Vol. 4, pp.266-267
Statements of the LDS First Presidency compiled by Gary Bergera
- “It ought to have been known, years ago, by every person in the Church – for ample teachings have been given on the point – that no member of the Church has the right to publish any doctrines, as the doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, without first submitting them for examination and approval to the First Presidency and the Twelve. There is but one man upon the earth, at one time, who holds the keys to receive commandments and revelations for the Church, who has the authority to write doctrines by way of commandments unto the Church. And any man who so far forgets the order instituted by the Lord as to write and publish what may be termed new doctrines without consulting with the First Presidency of the Church respecting them, places himself in a false position, and exposes himself to the power of darkness by violating his priesthood.” (Millennial Star, Oct. 21, 1865)
- “No man is authorized to teach to the Church new or advanced doctrines except the presidency thereof. Light comes from the head, and to that point must members of the Church look for knowledge and wisdom and doctrine and principle.” (Millennial Star, Apr. 15, 1878)
- “The theology of our Church is the theology taught by Jesus Christ and his apostles, the theology of scripture and reason.” (Improvement Era, May 1907)
- “Our doctrines are open to the world. They are not secret or clothed in mystery. We proclaim the pure gospel of Christ as revealed from heaven in these last days through the prophet of the nineteenth century, Joseph Smith. We invite all mankind to look into our teachings and promise all who obey them a witness of their truth by the power of the Holy Ghost, which makes men free indeed.” (Improvement Era, June 1911)
- “[T]he theories, speculations, and opinions of men, however intelligent, ingenious, and plausible, are not necessarily doctrines of the Church or principles that God has commanded His servants to preach. No doctrine is a doctrine of this Church until it has been accepted as such by the Church, and not even a revelation from God should be taught to His people until it has first been approved by the presiding authority – the one through whom the Lord makes known His will for the guidance of the Saints as a religious body. The spirit of revelation may rest upon anyone, and teach him or her many things for personal comfort and instruction. But those are not doctrines of the Church, and however true, they must not be inculcated until proper permission is given.” (Joseph F. Smith to Lillie Golsan - July 16,1902)
Compare President Wilford Woodruff and Elder Bruce R. McConkie on the question of eternal progression:
- "If there was a point where man in his progression could not proceed any further, the very idea would throw a gloom over every intelligent and reflecting mind. God himself is increasing and progressing in knowledge, power, and dominion, and will do so, worlds without end. It is just so with us. We are in a probation, which is a school of experience." (Wilford Woodruff, JD 6.120)
- "Now may I suggest the list of heresies. Heresy one: There are those who say that God is progressing in knowledge and is learning new truths. This is false - utterly, totally, and completely. There is not one sliver of truth in it." (Bruce R. McConkie; Seven Deadly Heresies; Notice the condemnation of earlier men of higher church-rank then himself - including but not limited to Presidents/Prophets Brigham Young and Wilford Woodruff.)
Jason Wallace: here, here, here and here
“The Art of Scripture and Scripture as Art: The Proclamation on the Family and the Expanding Canon” by Boyd Petersen and David Scott; found in The Expanded Canon
“The ‘Lectures on Faith’: A Case Study in Decanonization” by Richard Van Wagoner, Stephen C. Walker, and Allen D. Roberts
As A Thief in the Night by Daniel Erickson
The Millenarian World of Early Mormonism by Grant Underwood
Conflict In the Quorum by Gary Bergera
Power From on High; David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism by Gregory Prince
The Mormon Jesus; Brigham Young: Pioneer Prophet by John Turner
Watchman on the Tower: Ezra Taft Benson and the Making of the Mormon Right; The Mormon Church and Blacks by Matthew Harris
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner
“This Is My Doctrine”: The Development of Mormon Theology by Charles Harrell
Political Deliverance: The Mormon Quest for Statehood by Edward Lyman
Christianity at the Crossroads by Michael Kruger
The Trinitarian Theology of Cornelius Van Til by Lane Tipton
Out of Mormonism by Judy Robertson
Christianity and Liberalism by J. Gresham Machen
Core Christianity by Michael Horton
Reformed Dogmatics by Herman Bavinck
The Pastoral Epistles (NIGTC) by George Knight III
The Authority and Inspiration of the Scriptures by B.B. Warfield
God and Reason in the Middle Ages by Edward Grant
The Territories of Science and Religion; The Bible, Protestantism, and the Rise of Natural Science; Science Without God? Rethinking the History of Scientific Naturalism by Peter Harrison
The Rise of the Universities by Charles Haskins
Universities In the Middle Ages by Alan Cobban
The Savior of Science by Stanley Jaki
1h 21m | Oct 23, 2023 - (Bonus Ep. 5) Evangelist John Kauer on The Imputation Approach
In this episode, we interview the one and only John Kauer. Many will know him - and the rest of you soon will. He's been a staple here in Utah for many years!
The chapter discussed comes from the book Sharing the Good News with Mormons: Practical Strategies for Getting the Conversation Started, edited by Eric Johnson and Sean McDowell. John authored chapter 23: "Are You Considered As Good As Jesus? The Imputation-Approach"
1689 London Baptist Confession, chapter 11
Institutes of the Christian Religion by John Calvin
Redemption Accomplished and Applied by John Murray
Reformed Dogmatics by Herman Bavinck
The Plan of Salvation by B.B. Warfield
Come and Welcome to Jesus Christ by John Bunyan
Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God by J.I. Packer
1h 44m | Oct 19, 2023 - 43. The Great Apostasy; How flexible is the Mormon narrative?
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the forty-third lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Oct. 16-22) is titled “Perfect That Which Is Lacking in Your Faith” and covers 1 and 2 Thessalonians.
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Pastor Brendon's Colossians series can be found here and/or here.
Correction: Skyler misspoke and stated Official Declaration 1 was 1894-95, when it was 1890. This was a weird mistake (facepalm!). There was a manifesto given in 1895, but not this one!
Seminary Manual: here, here and here
True To the Faith: A Gospel Reference
“The Restoration of the Fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ”
Jesus The Christ; The Great Apostasy by James Talmage
A Rational Theology by John Widtsoe
Understanding Paul by Richard Lloyd Anderson
The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
Russell Nelson statement: “If you think the Church is fully restored, you’re just seeing the beginning...”
“The Ongoing Restoration” by LeGrand Curtis, Jr.
“Apostasy and Restoration” (Dallin Oaks)
When the Lights Went Out by Hugh Nibley
The Great and Abominable Church of the Devil by H. Verlan Andersen
The Inevitable Apostasy by Ted R. Callister: "If there had been significant righteousness among the Saints, the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles would have continued." (p. 46)
In the LDS temple endowment ceremony before 1990 - Lucifer (or Satan) states that he would "buy up...popes and priests". Then, there was a scene where Lucifer hires a minister (thus, a "hireling of Satan") who is interviewed to make sure he's been to school - and then, Lucifer has him promote "the orthodox religion" (including a God "without body, parts, or passions") to Adam/Eve. Lucifer tells the minister that he will pay him well for conversions. (here, here, here, here) Thus, Talmage’s use of this phrase would have a powerful meaning to his LDS temple-endowed readers.
Joseph Smith claimed: "I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam...Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet..." (HC 6:408; here)
“What Latter-Day Saints get wrong about the ‘Great Apostasy’” by Peggy Fletcher Stack
“Not Your Parents’ Apostasy and Restoration” by Michael Austin
Ancient Christians: An Introduction for Latter-day Saints, edited by Jason Combs, et al.
The Millenarian World of Early Mormonism by Grant Underwood
“New Light on Mormon Origins from Palmyra (N.Y.) Revival” by Wesley Walters
“LDS Church Authority and New Plural Marriages, 1890-1904" by D. Michael Quinn (also here)
Conflict In the Quorum by Gary Bergera
The Mormon Jesus by John Turner
The Politics of American Religious Identity by Kathleen Flake
Standing Apart edited by Miranda Wilcox and John Young
Justification Reconsidered by Stephen Westerholm
Christianity and Liberalism by J. Gresham Machen
1-2 Thessalonians (IVP NTCS); The Temple and the Church’s Mission by G.K. Beale
The Man of Sin; A Case for Amillennialism by Kim Riddlebarger
The Reformation as Renewal by Matthew Barrett
All That is in God by James Dolezal (also here, here)
Luther and His Times by E.G. Schwiebert
Roger Williams: Church and State by Edmund Morgan
Destroyer of the Gods by Larry Hurtado
The Politically Incorrect Guide to Western Civilization by Anthony Esolen
The Territories of Science and Religion by Peter Harrison
The Victory of Reason by Rodney Stark
How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization by Thomas Woods
From Icons to Idols by David Davis
1h 30m | Oct 16, 2023 - 42. The One God Incarnate: The One and Only True Christ Jesus
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the forty-second lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Oct. 9-15) is titled “I Can Do All Things Through Christ Which Strengtheneth Me” and covers Philippians and Colossians.
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Pastor Brendon's Colossians series can be found here and/or here.
Seminary Manual: here, here, here, and here
D&C 93; 132 ; JST Philippians 3.11: “resurrection of the just”
“The Only True God and Jesus Christ Whom He Hath Sent” (Jeffrey Holland)
The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
What Mormons Think of Christ (official pamphlet)
Understanding Paul by Richard Lloyd Anderson
Jesus The Christ; Articles of Faith by James Talmage
A Rational Theology by John A. Widtsoe
Brigham Young: JD 4.218; 11. 268; 1.49-51
Orson Pratt: JD 18.290
The Mormon Jesus by John Turner
The Person of Jesus; Christianity and Liberalism by J. Gresham Machen
Core Christianity; Christless Christianity by Michael Horton (also here)
The Forgotten Trinity by James White (also here)
Simply Trinity by Matthew Barrett (also here)
The Trinitarian Theology of Cornelius Van Til by Lane Tipton
Philippians by Moises Silva
Colossians and Philemon; The Temple and the Church’s Mission by G.K. Beale
Christianity and Classical Culture by Jaroslav Pelikan
The Person of Christ by Phillip Schaff
1h 16m | Oct 9, 2023 - 41. Who is Sovereign? Man's Foreseen Use of Agency vs. God's Predestined Election
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the forty-first lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Oct. 2-8) is titled “For the Perfecting of the Saints” and covers Ephesians.
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Pastor Brendon's Colossians series can be found here and/or here.
Seminary Manual: here, here, here, here, and here
2 Ne 2; 2 Ne 25.23; Alma 13; Mor. 10.32 ; Moses 4; Abraham 3.19-22; D&C 27.13; 93; 132
“Foreordination”; “Agency” ; “Agency and Responsibility”
"Patriarchal Blessing"; "Jesus Christ Chosen As Savior"
Gospel Principles: here and here
The Words of Joseph Smith, wherein Smith taught that “unconditional election of individuals to eternal life was not taught by the apostles” (pp. 74, 189)
“The Constitution: A Heavenly Banner” (Ezra Taft Benson)
“Gathering the Family of God” (Henry Eyring)
The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
Understanding Paul by Richard Lloyd Anderson
The Epistle to the Ephesians (BYU NT Commentary) by Kent Jackson
Lectures on Faith
A Rational Theology by John Widtsoe
Many Are Called but Few Are Chosen; The Great and Abominable Church of the Devil by H. Verlan Andersen
Eternal Man Truman Madsen
Achieving A Celestial Marriage manual
Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. McConkie; wherein he states that people are “chosen” to become Christ’s sheep in the premortal world “because of their pre-existent training, election, and foreordination.” (p.291)
Orson Hyde: JD 4. 259f
Elder (then future president/prophet) Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: “Under [premortal] conditions it was natural for our father to discern and choose those who were most worthy and elevate the talents of each individual. He knew not only what each of us could do, but also what each of us would do when put to the test and when responsibility was given us. Then, when the time came for our habitation on mortal earth, all things were prepared and the servants of the Lord chosen and ordained to their respective missions.” (The Way to Perfection, pp.50-51)
By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus: A New Look at the Joseph Smith Papyri by Charles Larson (also here and here and here)
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? By Sandra and Jerald Tanner
Religion of a Different Color by W. Paul Reeve (Note that the premortal explanation for the priesthood and temple ban for black people did not come from Brigham Young but was a later development.)
“This Is My Doctrine”: The Development of Mormon Theology by Charles Harrell
Ephesians (Zondervan Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament) by Clinton Arnold
Ephesians by Charles Hodge
What Is Faith?; Christianity and Liberalism by J. Gresham Machen (also here)
Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God by J. I. Packer
Core Christianity; For Calvinism by Michael Horton (also here)
The Ascension of Christ by Patrick Schreiner
Prepositions and Theology in the Greek New Testament by Murray Harris
- “When Paul speaks of Christians’ spiritual identification with Christ, he can say, ‘God has enthroned us with him [Jesus] in the heavenly realms’ (Eph 2:6), but significantly he does not add ‘at his right hand...,’ a phrase that is applied to Christ in a comparable statement in Eph 1:20. Christ’s exalted status cannot be shared. Angels stand or fall down in worship in God’s presence (1 Ki 22:19; Rev 4:10); the enthroned Son sits.” (p. 107)
Institutes of the Christian Religion by John Calvin
Bondage of the Will by Martin Luther
The Potter’s Freedom by James White (also here and here)
The Temple and the Church’s Mission by G.K. Beale
Adopted into God’s Family: Exploring a Pauline Metaphor (NSBT) by Trevor Burke
1h 7m | Oct 2, 2023 - 40. There Is No Other Gospel
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the fortieth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (September 25-October 1) is titled “Walk in the Spirit” and covers Galatians.
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Pastor Brendon's Colossians series can be found here and/or here.
Correction: Paul doesn't use the word "heresy", here - but the concept. In other words, heresy comes from inside the community. The Galatian Heresy is worthy of "cursing" and being cast out, including those who are being seduced by the heresy if they won't be corrected. For Christians, (of course) all heresy is error - but not all error is heresy. From the Christian position: Is Mormonism a heresy, or so fundamentally different as to not be accurately identified as a heresy? The Galatian heresy arose within the church, but can it be accurately asserted that the teachings of Joseph Smith or Russell Nelson do?
Seminary Manual: Here, here, and here
3 Nephi 27.13-21 ; Moses 1.39 ; Articles of Faith (no. 4)
D&C 76.51-59; 84.33-44; 131.1-4; 132
True to the Faith: A Gospel Reference
The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges; e.g.
- "In this chapter [1] we learn that the prophesied great apostasy is already under way."
- In Galatians 2 - Peter and Paul "disagreed on a basic matter of church policy"; that's all it was, a policy difference.
- on 2.16, Justified is defined/explained as "brought into full harmony with God."
- on 3.21: "If properly understood, the Law of Moses was designed as a 'schoolmaster law' to point the people's minds toward Christ and His great last sacrifice in opening the door of exaltation to all...In other words, the children of Israel were so far into wickedness that it was impossible to give them a law high enough to bring them exaltation at that point in their lives."
- on 4.9 - "known God": "Now that you know about the plan of salvation brought by Christ" - and no comment after "or rather are known by God".
- on 6.7-9, excerpts of his comments are: "Whatever you plant, you will harvest. In other words, you will be rewarded on judgment day for how you live. This is known as the 'Law of the Harvest.'...He who plants or lives according to the worldly desires of the flesh will receive the punishments of God for his corrupt lifestyle...But those who 'plant righteousness will harvest a reward for exaltation, in other words, eternal life...Let's not get tired of doing good, thus living the Gospel...When the tine comes to be judged, we will harvest a reward of eternal life...if we don't give up and quit living the gospel."
“Salvation” (Alma Burton)
The Words of Joseph Smith (compiled and edited by Andrew Ehat and Lyndon Cook); e.g. pp. 365-372, 12 May 1844 (Friday Morning). Temple Stand; also see HC 6.363-367, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 364-368)
Understanding Paul by Richard Lloyd Anderson
The Apostle Paul: His Life and His Testimony (notice the index entry for “Gospel”)
Statements of the LDS First Presidency: A Topical Compendium (compiled by Gary Bergera)
- “The gospel of Jesus Christ teaches that man is eternal – that he lived as a spirit before he came to Earth, and that after death he will be resurrected and will dwell in a place determined by how he kept his mortal estate. Every man may choose for himself whether or not he wishes to live forever with God, or be cast out of His presence. One of the principles of the gospel is that the family will continue as an eternal unit. Where true love exists between husband and wife, it is most comforting to know that through a special ordinance in the holy temple a man and wife are sealed for time and all eternity, and the children born of that union will be them forever. How glorious!” (pp.182-183; N. Eldon Tanner, “First Presidency Message”, Ensign, Oct. 1978)
- “We also declare that the gospel of Jesus Christ, restored to His Church in our day, provides the only way to a mortal life of happiness and a fullness of joy forever. For those who have not received this gospel, the opportunity will come to them in the life hereafter if not in this life.” (“Statement of the First Presidency Regarding God’s Guidance to All Mankind”, Feb. 15,1978)
- “In general, the gospel may be said to consist of all truth secular and religious, for any truth can contribute to progression and improvement. In the sense in which it is used most frequently in the scriptures, however, the word gospel is ‘the power of God unto salvation for every one that believeth’ (Rom. 1:16). It consists of all the principles, laws, covenants, ordinances, and truths that will secure exaltation in the celestial kingdom for those who believe and obey.” (p. 183; Principles, 1976)
Speaking of the temple endowment, President/Prophet Howard W. Hunter stated that it “consists of two parts: first, a series of instructions, and second, promises or covenants that the person receiving the endowment makes – promises to live righteously and comply with the requirements of the gospel of Jesus Christ.”
Lectures on Faith (esp. 7)
A Rational Theology by John Widtsoe
The Great and Abominable Church of the Devil by H. Verlan Andersen
Eternal Man by Truman Madsen
“The Only True God and Jesus Christ Whom He Hath Sent” (Jeffrey Holland)
“Dear Are the Sheep That Have Wandered” (James Faust)
Brigham Young: Sermon, July 19, 1857; JD 1.93; 11.216; 11.269
Wilford Woodruff: JD 22.209; 23.329-330
Joseph F. Smith: JD 20.29
Orson Pratt: JD 18.293
George Q. Cannon: JD 25.290
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Sandra and Jerald Tanner
Power From on High: The Development of Mormon Priesthood by Gregory Prince
The Mormon Jesus by John Turner
“This Is My Doctrine”: The Development of Mormon Theology by Charles Harrell
To the Golden Shore: The Life of Adoniram Judson by Courtney Anderson
Christianity and Liberalism; Notes on Galatians by J. Gresham Machen
The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self by Carl Trueman
No Place For Truth; God In the Whirlwind; The Courage to Be Protestant by David Wells
American Gospel: Christ Crucified
What is the Gospel? (Voddie Baucham); Sin and the Fall (D.A. Carson)
Galatians (Zondervan Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament) by Thomas Schreiner
Interpreting Galatians by Moises Silva
Promise, Law, Faith by T. David Gordon
The Apostolic Preaching of the Cross by Leon Morris
Core Christianity; Christless Christianity by Michael Horton (also here and here)
Justification Reconsidered by Stephen Westerholm
Cracking the New Perspective on Paul by Robert Cara
The Doctrine Upon Which the Church Stands or Falls: Justification in Biblical, Theological, Historical, and Pastoral Perspective, edited by Matthew Barrett
One With Christ: An Evangelical Theology of Salvation by Marcus Peter Johnson
1h 18m | Sep 25, 2023 - 39. Church Finances, Testing Apostles, and the Gap between Claim and Results
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the thirty-ninth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (September 18-24) is titled “God Loveth a Cheerful Giver” and covers 2 Corinthians 8-13.
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Pastor Brendon's Colossians series can be found here and/or here.
Correction: Skyler overstated a point on "tithing settlement" meetings. The main point is surely for the LDS to be in the position of being able to demonstrate that one has been a faithful and *full* tithe payer, if need be. In some cases Sky had heard about, this has included actually demonstrating it. However, in the manual - what is standard is more of the "honor system", in terms of what is declared as the correct amount to tithe, on the part of the church member. The General Manual can be found here. Keep in mind that not only is being a full tithe-payer a requirement for temple worthiness and attendance, but that has been coupled with dire warnings of not obeying this command. An obvious example would be LDS apostle Bruce R. McConkie's entry in Mormon Doctrine on tithing wherein he not only includes a warning (citing D&C 64) that "he that is tithed shall not be burned" at the Second Coming, but that "[b]y this principle it shall be known who is for the kingdom of God and who is against it" (citing President/prophet Joseph F. Smith). It is sometimes a real phenomenon, however bizarre it may sound, that among some members who are basically inactive (even unworthy) in the church, they still sometimes continue to pay tithing to the LDS church.
Note: We mentioned President Lorenzo Snow in this episode. Keep in mind, he was not only the brother-in-law to Joseph Smith by one of Smith’s plural wives – but is credited with the famous Mormon maxim (really, “the core belief of LDS”): “As man now is, God once was; As God now is, man may be.”
Seminary Manual: here, here, and here
- I wish we had had more time to cover their coverage of 1 Cor. 13 – but the audio clip we shared was the actual quotation that they include in the lesson under the question: Are prophets infallibe? The source is called “Prophets”, and was the keynote address during the 2021 BYU Women’s Conference, given July 13,2021 by Sheri Dew. Notice the misquote in the manual. Also notice the weaponized ambiguity when it comes to the distinction between honest questions and “criticizing” the leadership of the LDS church.
Mormon 1.13; Mormon 9. 15-19; Moroni 10; 3 Nephi 27.13-21; D&C 46.8; D&C 64. 23-25; D&C 82.10; D&C 88.21-22; D&C 105.5; D&C 119; D&C 129; D&C 130.20-21
“It Works Wonderfully!”; “Waiting on the Road to Damascus” (Dieter F. Uchtdorf)
“Christ Is Risen; Faith in Him Will Move Mountains” (Russell Nelson)
“The Power of Sustaining Faith” (Henry Eyring); Note his inclusion of a quote by George Q. Cannon.
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 203-207, 214, 270-271, 301, 304-305
- Smith also stated: “As Paul boasted, I have suffered more than Paul did. I should be like a fish out of water if I were out of persecutions. Perhaps my brethren think it requires all this to keep me humble. The Lord has constituted me so curiously that I glory in persecution. I am not nearly so humble as if I were not persecuted.” (WJS, p. 202)
LDS General Handbook, underneath the over-arching Section: “God’s Plan and Your Role in His Work of Salvation and Exaltation”- and right after the subsection “Living the Gospel of Jesus Christ” - there is 1.2.2. Caring for Those in Need; also see 34. Finances and Audits
“Tithing”; “Fasting and Fast Offerings”
The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges;
- One comment from Ridges we weren’t able to include was his comment on 11.1-4 where he states: “We ‘marry’ ourselves to Him, by making and keeping gospel covenants, and thus ensure that we will be with Him in celestial exaltation forever.”
Understanding Paul by Richard Lloyd Anderson
“Our Divine Constitution”; “Constitution: A Heavenly Banner” (Ezra Taft Benson
- This should be understood more clearly as part of Benson’s very public denunciation of government-welfare programs, a detail not mentioned (let alone interacted with) in the manual. See, e.g. Benson’s Proper Role of Government and The Red Carpet
- See Ezra Taft Benson and the Making of the Mormon Right by Matthew Harris
Statements of the LDS First Presidency (compiled by Gary Bergera), e.g.: "Fasting is a form of self denial for self mastery. It is a physical sacrifice for spiritual blessing. All Saints should be urged to observe the fast day and enjoy the blessings to be derived thereby. In general, fasting means abstaining from two consecutive meals and taking neither food nor drink into the body." (Helps and Suggestions, 1956, p.159)
A Rational Theology by John A. Widtsoe
Brigham Young: JD 12.115-116; 9.149-150
Heber C. Kimball: JD 4.294
Franklin D. Richards: JD 26.299
It’s hard to compare Jesus’ teachings on wealth and the rich with this – allegedly coming from the one true and living church of Jesus Christ.
Financial stuff, e.g.: here, here , here and here
Numbers, in general, e.g.: here, here, here
Mormonism and the Magic Worldview; The Mormon Hierarchy: Wealth and Corporate Power by D. Michael Quinn
The Mormon Jesus by John Turner
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Sandra and Jerald Tanner
Going Clear; see also the book Going Clear by Lawrence Wright
Justin Peters’ plea to Kenneth Copeland
American Awakening by Joshua Mitchell
American Gospel: Christ Crucified
What is the Gospel? (Voddie Baucham)
What Is Faith?; Christianity and Liberalism by J. Gresham Machen
2 Corinthians (NIV Application Commentary) by Scott Hafemann
“An Earnest Plea to LDS”; “An Earnest Plea to Charismatics” (Jason Wallace)
The Gospel According to John; How Long, O Lord? Reflections on Evil and Suffering; The Difficult Doctrine of the Love of God by D.A. Carson (and here)
Core Christianity; Christless Christianity; Recovering Our Sanity by Michael Horton (also here and here)
“’For Whenever I am Weak, Then I Am Strong’: Disability in Paul’s Epistles” by Martin Albl (Found in This Abled Body: Rethinking Disabilities in Biblical Studies, ed. By Hector Avalos, et al.)
Francis of Assisi and His World by Mark Galli (also here and here)
Religion and the Rise of Christianity by Benjamin Friedman
Property and Riches in Early Christianity by Martin Hengel
The Rise of Christianity; The Victory of Reason by Rodney Stark
Poverty in the Theology of John Calvin by Bonnie Pattison
Politically Incorrect Guide to Western Civilization by Anthony Esolen
On the Road with Saint Augustine by James K.A. Smith
1h 29m | Sep 18, 2023 - 38. Reconciliation: a Gift Received from God, or a Goal to Earn and Achieve as one?
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the thirty-eighth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (September 11-17) is titled "Be Ye Reconciled to God” and covers 2 Corinthians 1-7.
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Pastor Brendon's Colossians series can be found here and/or here.
Seminary Manual: here, here, here
Gospel Principles: here and here
“Waiting on the Lord” (Jeffrey Holland); and notice that in the quotation we included, he is building on a previous LDS apostle, Neal Maxwell.
Also see Brigham Young: JD 8.31
The Miracle of Forgiveness by Spencer Kimball
“The Healing Ointment of Forgiveness” (Kevin Duncan)
A Gospel Trilogy by Cleon Skousen
“The Power of the Book of Mormon in Conversion” (Benjamin M.Z.); wherein he includes a quote from Elder Bednar stating that: “Knowing that the gospel is true is the essence of a testimony. Consistently being true to the gospel is the essence of conversion”, followed by the statement - “Conversion requires us to be ‘doers of the word, and not hearers only’. The Lord’s action plan for use – the doctrine of Christ – is taught most clearly in the Book of Mormon” followed by a to-do list.
“Justification and Sanctification” (D. Todd Christofferson)
Understanding Paul by Richard Lloyd Anderson
The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
A few of his interpretations that we failed to mention include:
- 2 Cor. 4.10, on the line “that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body”: “That, through our faithfulness, we might be resurrected to eternal life with Christ.”
- On the JST 2 Cor. 4.15 - where Joseph Smith added two commas, neither of which alter the meaning significantly, he states: “Just another reminder that Joseph Smith paid very close attention to detail as he worked on the JST.”
- 2 Cor. 4.17, on the phrase “eternal weight of glory”, he states: “Exaltation in the Kingdom of God; see D&C 132.16”.
- 2 Cor. 7.10, on the phrase “to salvation”, he states: “and thus obtain exaltation”.
- On JST 2 Cor. 5.18, on the phrase “and receiveth all the things of God”, he stated: “...all that my Father hath shall be given unto him”, D&C 84.36; In other words, exaltation”.
- 2 Cor. 5.20, on the phrase “Be ye reconciled to God”- he states: “Be brought into harmony with the Father through the Atonement of Christ”.
Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman
Christianity and Liberalism; What is Faith?; The Person of Jesus by J. Gresham Machen
Simply Trinity; None Greater by Matthew Barrett
The Trinitarian Theology of Cornelius Van Til by Lane Tipton
All That Is in God by James Dolezal (also here, here and here)
American Awakening by Joshua Mitchell
Justification Reconsidered by Stephen Westerholm
The Apostolic Preaching of the Cross by Leon Morris
Core Christianity; Christless Christianity by Michael Horton (also here and here)
Redemption Accomplished and Applied by John Murray
How Long, O Lord? Reflections on Evil and Suffering; The Difficult Doctrine of the Love of God by D.A. Carson (and here)
2 Corinthians (NIV Application Commentary) by Scott Hafemann
Unpacking Forgiveness by Chris Brauns
Embodying Forgiveness by L. Gregory Jones
When Grace Comes Alive by Terry Johnson
Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes by Kenneth Bailey
American Gospel: Christ Crucified
What is the Gospel? (Voddie Baucham)
Common Grace and the Gospel by Cornelius Van Til
Living In Union with Christ by Grant Macaskill
Union with the Resurrected Christ by G.K. Beale
The Temple and the Church’s Mission by G.K. Beale:
- It was interesting to me that the LDS curriculum neglected the temple passages and themes in this epistle, entirely. G.K. Beale covers it showing that for Paul, in both Corinthian epistles, teaches/assumes that “the church [is] the actual beginning fulfillment of the end-time temple prophesied in the Old Testament...he compares the church to a temple because he understands it to be the inaugurated fulfillment of the expected latter-day temple.” (p.253)
- “...Paul is not merely making an analogy between a temple idea and that of Christians, but that Christians are the beginning fulfillment of the actual prophecy of the end-time temple.” (p.254)
- “Intriguingly, Ezekiel 11:16 says that when Israel was in captivity God ‘was a sanctuary for them a little while in the countries where they had gone’! This assertion is made in direct connection with Ezekiel 10:18, in which ‘the glory of the Lord departed from the threshold of the temple’ in Jerusalem (Ezek. 10:18; similarly, Ezek. 11.23). It is likely not coincidental that God’s glorious presence departed from the temple and then is said to be with the remnant, who have gone into captivity. His presence would return with the restored people and would once again take up residence in another temple. It is likely that this did not occur in the second temple that was built after Israel’s return. God’s tabernacling presence expressed itself in the coming of Christ, who ‘tabernacled among’ Israel, and they ‘beheld his glory’ (John 1:14). Those who identify with Christ become like the Corinthians, part of the true temple.” (p. 255)
- “Christ and his people have become what the microcosmic symbolism of the old temple foreshadowed...Christ initially fulfilled the temple promise (cf.1:20), and the readers participate in that fulfillment also, as they are ones ‘having these promises’ (7:1).
- The curriculum, of course, skips over the language of the new temple being one “not made with hands” - and Beale discusses this phrase as Paul uses it in 5.1. This is just, initially, the most obvious point which should signal to the reader that this cannot be a basis for a future temple made with hands, let alone hundreds - to say nothing of the myriad theological differences in purpose and practice.
- Beale ends on a note worth including: “The manner by which glory grows in the temple is rather ironic: it is as the believer perseveres through suffering. God’s glorious ‘power is perfected in weakness’ (2 Cor. 12.9). In fact, this increasing glory through the weakness of the true, visible church is the growth of the temple itself. As Christians trust God in the midst of trial and their own weaknesses, God make his glory shine in us. God has designed that ‘we have this treasure’ of his glory shine in us. God has designed that ‘we have this treasure’ of his glory ‘in earthen [weak] vessels in order that the surpassing greatness of the power may be of God and not from ourselves’ (2 Cor. 4:6b-7).” (p.259)
1h 26m | Sep 11, 2023 - 37. Baptisms for the Dead: Hell(?), Trichotomy, and the Celestials
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the thirty-seventh lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (September 4-10) is titled “God Is Not the Author of Confusion, but of Peace” and covers 1 Corinthians 14-16.
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Pastor Brendon's Colossians series can be found here and/or here.
Seminary Manual: here, here and here
JST 1 Cor. 15; JSH 1.7-8; Abraham 3.19-25
D&C 19; 29; 63.50; 76; 88; 93; 101; 124; 131; 132; 133
1 Ne 15.35; 2 Ne 28.21-23; Mosiah 3.38-39; Alma 1.3-4, 5, 34.32-35, 41; 3 Ne. 27.11-17
Preach My Gospel: A Guide to Missionary Service (Basically, the textbook for LDS missionaries)
Achieving a Celestial Marriage (Student Manual); In a dialogue format underneath the headings "God became God by Obedience to Law" and then "Through Obedience to Law We can Become Like Our Father In Heaven":
- "...I can be a god only if I act like God."
- "Exactly right. Can you imagine the state of the universe if imperfect gods were allowed to spawn their imperfections throughout space, if beings who did not have law under their subjection were free to create worlds?" (p. 5)
“The Atonement” (Russell Nelson)
“Our Mission of Saving”; “Rejoice in this Great Era of Temple Building” (Gordon Hinckley)
“Baptisms for the Dead” (Gospel Topics); “Three Facts about Temple Baptisms” by Leah Barton
The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith ; Words of Joseph Smith
- “On 10 August 1840 Seymour Brunson, member of the Nauvoo High Council, died in Nauvoo. The Prophet took the occasion of his funeral, on 15 August 1840 to deliver the first discourse on the doctrine of baptism for the dead (See HC, 4.231)…He also said the apostle was talking to a people who understood baptism for the dead, for it was practiced among them. He went on to say that people could now act for their friends who had departed this life, and that the plan of salvation was calculated to save all who were willing to obey the requirements of the law of God.” (WJS, p. 49)
- “When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the Gospel – you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave.” (TPJS, p. 348)
- “The Bible supports the doctrine [of baptism for the dead]. If there is one word of the Lord that supports the doctrine, it is enough to make it true doctrine. Again, if we baptize a man in the name of the Father, [and] of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost for the remission of sins, it is just as much our privilege to act as an agent and be baptized for the remission of sins for and in behalf of our dead kindred who have not heard the gospel or fullness of it.” (WJS, pp. 109-110)
- “Flesh and blood cannot go there, but flesh and bones, quickened by the Spirit of God, can...Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, or the kingdom that God inherits and inhabits, but the flesh without the blood, and the Spirit of God flowing in the veins instead of the blood. For blood is the part of the body that causes corruption. Therefore, we must be changed in the twinkle of an eye, or have to lay down these tabernacles and [let] the blood vanish away. Therefore, Jesus Christ left his blood to atone for the sins of the world, that he might ascend into the presence of the Father...The blood is the corruptible part of the tabernacles. The resurrection is devised to take away corruption and make man perfect, or in the glory [in] which he was created. For the body is sown in corruption and raised in incorruption. Then we will be able to go into the presence of God.” (WJS, p. 255, 370-371)
History of the Church (vol.5), quoting Joseph Smith:
- Under the heading “Salvation Through Knowledge”: “Add to your faith knowledge, etc. The principle of knowledge is the principle of salvation. This principle can be comprehended by the faithful and diligent; and every one that does not obtain knowledge sufficient to be saved will be condemned. The principle of salvation is given us through the knowledge of Jesus Christ. Salvation is nothing more nor less than to triumph over all our enemies and put them under our feet. And when we have power to put all enemies under our feet in this world, and a knowledge to triumph over all evil spirits in the world to come, then we are saved, as in the case of Jesus, who was to reign until He had put all enemies under His feet, and the last enemy was death. Perhaps there are principles here that few men have thought of. No person can have this salvation except through a tabernacle.” (p. 387-388)
- “Paul ascended into the third heavens, and he could understand the three principal rounds of Jacob’s ladder – the telestial, the terrestrial, and the celestial glories or kingdoms, where Paul saw and heard things which were not lawful for him to utter. I could explain a hundred fold more than I ever have of the glories of the kingdoms manifested to me in the vision, were I permitted, and were the people prepared to receive them.” (p. 402; Note that Smith, and a few of his apologists try to connect what Smith adds to the text of 1 Cor. 15 – namely, telestial – to the third heaven Paul mentions in 2 Cor. 12.2; yet Joseph Smith also stated: “Paul saw the third heaven, and I more.” TPJS, p. 301)
- “I see no faults in the Church, and therefore let me be resurrected with the Saints, whether I ascend to heaven or descend to hell, or go to any other place. And if we go to hell, we will turn the devils out of doors and make a heaven of it. Where this people are, there is good society. What do we care where we are, if the society be good?” (p. 517)
The LDS First Presidency has stated that: “To the Latter-day Saints, salvation itself, under the Atonement of Christ, is a process of education.” (Improvement Era, May 1907) cited on pg. 128 of Statements of the LDS First Presidency: A Topical Compendium (compiled by Gary Bergera); also:
- “This life is part of eternity. This is one stage of our eternal lives. When we die, we will go on to purposeful, active, challenging living. The life on the other side of the veil will be somewhat like the life here. If we have been clean and decent and good here, we will go on in that same spirit. If we have been rascals, we will go in that same spirit.” (Gordon B. Hinckley. “First Presidency Message”, Ensign, Apr. 2002; p. 112)
- “Even before the fall of Adam, which ushered death in this world, our Heavenly Father had prepared a place for the spirits who would eventually depart this mortal life. At the time of Jesus’ death, the spirit world was occupied by hosts of our Father’s children who had died – from Adam’s posterity to the death of Jesus – both the righteous and wicked. There were two grand divisions in the world of spirits. Spirits of the righteous (the just) had gone to paradise, a state of happiness, peace, and restful work. The spirits of the wicked (the unjust) had gone to prison, a state of darkness and misery (see Alma 40:12-15). Jesus went only to the righteous – paradise.” (Ezra Taft Benson, “First Presidency Message”, Ensign, Apr. 1993; p. 112)
- “Say to brothers Hulet, and to all others, that the Lord never authorized them to say that the devil, his angels or the sons of perdition, should ever be restored; for their state of destiny was not revealed to man, is not revealed, nor ever shall be revealed, save to those who are made partakers thereof; consequently those who teach this doctrine have not received it of the Spirit of the Lord.” (Statement, June 25, 1833; p. 428)
A Rational Theology (esp. Chapter 28: Work For the Dead); Evidences and Reconciliation by John A. Widtsoe: “President Brigham Young suggested that the ultimate punishment of the sons of perdition may be that they, having their spiritual bodies disorganized, must start over again, must begin anew the long journey of existence, repeating the steps that they took in the eternities before the Great Council was held. That would be punishment indeed!” (p. 266)
- Another quote by LDS apostle Widtsoe worth including: “All others, who are not classed as sons of perdition, will be ‘redeemed in the due time of the Lord’, that is, the will all be saved. The meanest sinner will find some place in the heavenly realm...In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, there is no hell. All will find a measure of salvation,...The gospel of Jesus Christ has no hell in the old proverbial sense.” (Joseph Smith – Seeker After Truth, pp.177-178)
Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. McConkie
Understanding Paul by Richard Lloyd Anderson: “The gift is given, bringing the joy of gratitude. But what about the responsibilities of gratitude? Does one ever receive a gift without moral obligation? Does the Christian remain the polite child expressing verbal thanks only, or does he develop the maturity to show gratitude in action?” (p. 181); also see Appendix C.
Paul’s First Epistle to the Corinthians by Richard Draper and Michael Rhodes; even in a commentary on 1 Corinthians, you still find this kind of material when commenting on Paul’s(?) doctrine of the resurrection: “When this doctrine is properly understood and believed, death is put in its proper perspective. It is but a passage into the next phase of existence. The core belief of the Latter-day Saints was declared by President Lorenzo Snow who said, ‘As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be.’ Thus, the brethren place emphasis on the idea that God designed this mortal experience to be but a temporary but a necessary step into eternity and godhood.” (pp.70-71)
“Paul Among the Prophets: Obtaining a Crown” by Michael Middleton (found in The Apostle Paul: His Life and Ministry - The 23d Annual Sidney B. Sperry Symposium): “And indeed Paul addressed many subjects; he has not left those who read his writings ignorant of some of the most fundamental and glorious truths of the Restoration: the three degrees of glory (1 Corinthians 15:40-47), the teaching power of the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 2:10-16), the purpose and continuity of the family unit (1 Corinthians 11:11), and baptism for the dead (1 Corinthians 15:29). He taught in plainness these and a host of other essential and exalting doctrines. The lack of vibrato with which he presented these concepts suggests that they were common knowledge to the Saints of his day. Many of these precious truths were distorted after Paul’s death but have been restored to their former fulness by latter-day revelation.” (pp. 121-122)
Mormonism and Early Christianity by Hugh Nibley (esp. Ch. 4: “Baptism for the Dead in Ancient Times”)
A Gospel Trilogy by W. Cleon Skousen
Brigham Young: JD 1.118; 1.275; 1.312; 2.124; 3.277; 3.375; 4.31-32; 6.293 ; 7.2-3; 7.287; 8.35;8.59-61 ; 8.154-155; 8.222; 9.149; 15.137
John Taylor: JD 13.14
Wilford Woodruff: JD 6.120; 23.125-126
Orson Pratt: JD 1.56-57; 1.332-333; 7.89; 15.51-52; 16.297, 16.328; 20.70
Heber C. Kimball: JD 1.161; 1.355-357; 3.109; 4.223; 4.329; 5.95; 6.63
George A. Smith: JD 15.99
“Who will be saved in the celestial kingdom of God? They that have the oracles of truth and obey them. Where will the rest go? Into kingdoms that God has and will prepare for them and there are millions of such kingdoms. There is as many degrees of glory as there are degrees of capacity and to them will be meted out according to their faith, and goodness and the truth that abides in them and according to the light God has imparted to them.” (The Essential Brigham Young, pp.139-140)
"Do we know what hell is? And where hell is? Who can point it out? In many instances where the apostles have been speaking and likewise Jesus in his communications to the people this earth is compared to hell. Well it is in one sense. If we find out really that hell is anything more or less than this earth, this wicked world, we shall find that it is banishment from the society and presence of Holy beings." (The Complete Discourses of Brigham Young, Vol. 1, pg. 1103)
Young stated in a "Discourse on Marriage" that women "are not accountable for the sins that are in the world." This is one of the places where the idea that there women cannot become "sons of perdition".
As an interesting example of a Mormon debate – David Ridges (cited above) has this to say under 15.4: “Just a quick comment about ‘rose again’ in verse 4, above. Once in a while, a student will see the word ‘again’ and start wondering if it means that Jesus had been resurrected previously on other earths and thus, was being resurrected ‘again’ here on our earth, after performing an atonement for us. Furthermore, some start wondering if Jesus gets born, crucified, and resurrected over and over on each of Father’s worlds. This is not true. The word ‘again’ simply means that Jesus became alive ‘again’ through the process of resurrection. We know from D&C 76.24, that the Atonement, which Jesus performed on our earth, works for all other worlds he has created or will create for the Father. He will never die again. Neither will we, once we have been resurrected – see Hebrews 9.27”
- One can tell a lot about the beliefs of a community by their debates. The debate over the full divinity of Christ (leading to the Council of Nicaea) was a fundamentally monotheistic debate; and a debate over particulars within a framework doesn’t mean that the framework itself is debatable. This type of question that Ridges (who would know!) finds as enough of a “problem” to address in writing in this book helps to show the Mormon framework around both one who would take his view, and even a Mormon who would not take his view. Why Hebrews should settle the debate (in Ridges’ mind) is not stated – given how expendable the Bible is on any other Mormon doctrinal position. Also, watch for this double-standard: notice how Christian debates disprove any sort of Christian unity or any sort of truth claim within Christianity – but Mormon debates don’t do the same relative to their own unity and truth claims.
"'What Has Become of Our Fathers?' Baptism for the Dead at Nauvoo" by M. Guy Bishop
“An Ambivalent Rejection: Baptism for the Dead and the Reorganized Church Experience” by Roger Launius
“Baptism for the Dead: Comparing RLDS and LDS Perspectives” (Grant Underwood)
“’Complexity and Richness’: Reenvisioning the Middle Ages for Mormon Historical Narratives” by Spencer Young
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Sandra and Jerald Tanner
The Mormon Jesus by John Turner
An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins by Grant Palmer
“This Is My Doctrine”: The Development of Mormon Theology by Charles Harrell
1 Corinthians (ZECNT) by Paul Gardner
Paul Through Mediterranean Eyes by Kenneth Bailey
St. Paul’s Corinth: Texts and Archaeology by Jerome Murphy-O'Connor
The Cross Before Constantine by Bruce Longenecker
Paul’s Two-Age Construction and Apologetics by William Dennison
Perspectives on Pentecost by Richard B. Gaffin
The Pauline Eschatology by Geerhardus Vos
Biblical Words and Their Meaning by Moises Silva
Exegetical Fallacies by D.A. Carson
“Living Rewards for Dead Apostles: ‘Baptised for the Dead’ in 1 Corinthians 15.29” by James Patrick
“Trichotomy: A Beachhead for Gnostic Influences” by Kim Riddlebarger
A footnote worth including by scholar Joachim Jeremias: "...much more reserve of judgment will have to exercised in ascribing an early date to Hellenistic influences on Christian baptismal doctrine and practice than is common now. Since 1 Cor. 15.29 is cited as the most striking evidence of Hellenistic influence on the baptismal practice in the Pauline churches, it may be mentioned that the interpretation of this passage as referring to vicarious baptism for persons who died unbaptized has, in my opinion, been refuted...M. Raeder...has convincingly shown that in the phrase [cites the Greek of vs. 29] (a) the [huper] has a final sense ('for the sake of so-and-so'), and (b) the the term [oy nekron] refers to dead Christians. We must accordingly translate 'What then are those people to do, who submit to baptism for the sake of the dead (i.e.) in order to be reunited in the resurrection with their dead relatives or friends who have received Christian baptism)?'...Take, for instance, a case in which a young woman belonging to the Church, and engaged to be married, died, and whose heathen bridegroom had himself baptized 'for her sake' - that is, in order to be united with her in the resurrection. This interpretation fits excellently into the context of the apologetic reflections of 1 Cor. 15.12-19, which Paul, after the digression of vv. 20-28, resumes in vv. 29-34. The apostle had said in v. 18 that if Christ were not risen 'they who are kinsmen (husbands, wives, lovers), who had themselves baptized in order to be united with them in the resurrection...If this interpretation is correct, then 'vicarious baptism' is to be deleted from the vocabulary of New Testament exegesis. The superstitious misuse of representative baptism for the dead, which was practiced in heretical circles since the end of the second century, did not arise about AD 50 in Corinth, only to be tolerated in silence by Paul, but arose from a gross misunderstanding of the (certainly very telegraphic) formulation of 1 Cor. 15.29." (IBITFFC, pp. 36-37)
1h 22m | Sep 4, 2023 - 36. Ignore the Shema, Rewrite the Scripture, and Earn More Gifts
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the thirty-sixth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (August 28-September 3) is titled “Ye Are the Body of Christ” and covers 1 Corinthians 8-13.
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Pastor Brendon's Colossians series can be found here.
Seminary Manual: here, here, here and here
D&C 76, 46, 131, 132; Moroni 7
The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
Understanding Paul by Richard Lloyd Anderson
Paul’s First Epistle to the Corinthians by Richard Draper and Michael Rhodes
“The Challenge to Become” (Dallin Oaks)
“Celestial Marriage” (Russell Nelson)
Brigham Young: JD 8.142, 9.267-268, 10.324
Charles Penrose: JD 21.142-143
George Q. Cannon: JD 22.265
David Ridges (of CES/Institute, cited above, in a book being promoted by Deseret Book this current year: 2023) states in his commentary on 1 Cor. 8.4-6: "Before Paul continues to answer their questions about eating meat left over from pagan idol worship, he takes a minute to review the doctrine of plurality of gods with them. We know from D&C 132.19-20, that all who are worthy will become gods over their own worlds, and will send their own spirit offspring to those worlds to go through the same plan of salvation as we are going through here. Therefore, because of the success of the Father's plan, there are many gods in the universe. But there is only one Heavenly Father for us. Thus, Paul reminds these Corinthian saints that there actually are many gods out there...
The Prophet Joseph Smith tells us that the parenthesis in vserse 5, above, teach a marvelous doctrine; namely that there, indeed, are many gods. This reminds us that we can become gods. (By the way, Abraham Isaac and Jacob from our world have already become gods. See D&C 132.27. This would include their wives. See D&C 132.19-20). He taught that the word 'gods' in verse 5 does not refer to idols or, in other words, heathen gods."
The Mormon Jesus by John Turner
Early Mormonism and the Magic World View by D. Michael Quinn
An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins by Grant Palmer
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Sandra and Jerald Tanner
Jason Wallace: An Earnest Plea to Charismatics; The Vanishing Lamanites; The Bible vs. Bart Ehrman; The Magical Mormon Scriptures
Spiritual Gifts by Thomas Schreiner
Perspectives on Pentecost by Richard Gaffin
Destroyer of the Gods by Larry Hurtado
The Trinity: An Introduction by Scott Swain
The Forgotten Trinity by James White
Simply Trinity by Matthew Barrett
1 Corinthians (ZECNT) by Paul Gardner
Paul Through Mediterranean Eyes by Kenneth Bailey
St. Paul’s Corinth: Texts and Archaeology by Jerome Murphy-O'Connor
The Cross Before Constantine by Bruce Longenecker
Paul’s Two-Age Construction and Apologetics by William Dennison
“Epistemological Reflections on 1 Corinthians 2.6-16” by Richard B. Gaffin
The Pauline Eschatology by Geerhardus Vos
Biblical Words and Their Meaning by Moises Silva
Exegetical Fallacies by D.A. Carson
1h 12m | Aug 28, 2023 - 35. Unity and Epistemology; Are feelings and experience enough?
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the thirty-fifth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Aug. 21-27) is titled “Be Perfectly Joined Together” and covers 1 Corinthians 1-7.
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Pastor Brendon's Colossians series can be found here.
Correction: The George Albert Smith quote was from Elder George A. Smith who was an early Mormon apostle, not President George Albert Smith who was the eighth president of the church. The one quoted was a Mormon apostle and member of the LDS First Presidency from 1839 until his death in 1875. President George Albert Smith was president of the LDS church from 1945-1951.
The mentioned and recommended article by Matthew Emadi is “What Do Mormons Believe About God?” These differences are super important, especially given some recent examples of obfuscation.
Seminary Manual: here, here, and here
Note the cited GA quotation in the first lesson: “If we build our foundation on Jesus Christ, we cannot fall! As we endure faithfully to the end, God will help us establish our lives upon His rock, ‘and the gates of hell shall not prevail against [us]’ (D&C 10:69).” One cannot help but notice a) the citation, not of Matthew, but of the D&C; and b) If that was not true of the very church Jesus was speaking of originally (due to the coming apostasy), is this really the best verse for assurance to the members who believe that very failed church had to be restored 1800 years later?
“The Candle of the Lord” ; “The Mantle Is Far Far Greater Than the Intellect” (Boyd K. Packer)
“How To Learn By the Spirit” (Richard G. Scott)
“The Charted Course of the Church in Education” (J. Reuben Clark)
The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
Understanding Paul by Richard Lloyd Anderson
Paul’s First Epistle to the Corinthians by Richard Draper and Michael Rhodes
George Albert Smith: JD 3.25
Wilford Woodruff: JD 18.188
Orson Pratt: JD 1.294
Charles W. Penrose: JD 26.23
John Taylor: JD 21.346; JD 8.97
Brigham Young: JD 1.3; JD 17.155
George Q. Cannon: JD 22.324
By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus by Charles Larson (also: here, here, and here, here)
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner (also: here)
Conflict in the Quorum by Gary Bergera
Watchman on the Tower by Matthew Harris
Lying For the Lord – The Paul H. Dunn Stories by Lynn Packer
An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins by Grant Palmer
The Mound Builder Myth: Fake History and the Hunt for a “Lost White Race” by Jason Colavito
Quest for the Gold Plates by Stan Larson
“The Secret Mormon Meetings of 1922” by Shannon Caldwell Montez
Jason Wallace: Temples Made With Hands?;The Magical Mormon Scriptures; Was The Burning in Your Bosom From God?; The Vanishing Lamanites; After Mormonism...Now What?; The Bible vs. Bart Ehrman
Justification Reconsidered by Stephen Westerholm
Christianity and Liberalism by J. Gresham Machen (also here and here)
- See also Machen’s fantastic book What Is Faith? (also here)
The Temple and the Church’s Mission by G.K. Beale
A Peculiar Glory by John Piper
1 Corinthians (ZECNT) by Paul Gardner
Paul Through Mediterranean Eyes by Kenneth Bailey
St. Paul’s Corinth: Texts and Archaeology by Jerome Murphy-O'Connor
The Cross Before Constantine by Bruce Longenecker
Paul’s Two-Age Construction and Apologetics by William Dennison
“Epistemological Reflections on 1 Corinthians 2.6-16” by Richard B. Gaffin
The Pauline Eschatology by Geerhardus Vos
Destroyer of the Gods by Larry Hurtado
Return of the God Hypothesis by Stephen Meyer (also here and here)
On the Reliability of the Old Testament by Kenneth Kitchen
Interpreting Eden by Vern Poythress
The Territories of Human Reason by Alister McGrath
Jesus and the Eyewitnesses by Richard Bauckham (also here)
Jesus and His World by Craig Evans
The Historical Jesus of the Gospels by Craig Keener
Christianity at the Crossroads; The Heresy of Orthodoxy by Michael Kruger (also here)
Simply Trinity by Matthew Barrett
1h 7m | Aug 21, 2023 - 34. New Perspective(s): Justification(s), adoption(s) - and "then shall they be gods"
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the thirty-fourth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Aug. 14-20) is titled "Overcome Evil With Good" and covers Romans 7-16.
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Pastor Brendon's Colossians series can be found here.
*Correction - - at 32:04, Skyler obviously misspoke very badly and meant to say (as the context makes clear): "Nobody's saying that God was once a man" or “Nobody’s saying that God was once a man who became God.” Some disputing the full divinity of Jesus still comes out of a monotheistic assumption which all forms of Mormonism deny.
**Correction - - George Foot Moore was a Presbyterian, and was a "Jewish scholar"...meaning to say: a scholar of Judaism. In terms of influence, his work in 1920's didn't seem to have the impact that E.P. Sanders would later in his book Paul and Palestinian Judaism (1977).
D&C 20; 50.26-28; 76.92-95; 84.38; 88.107; 132.19-21; Abraham 3
Seminary Manual: here, here and here, here, here
Gospel Principles: here
“Justification and Sanctification” (D. Todd Christofferson)
“The Challenge to Become” (Dallin Oaks)
“Hearts Knit In Righteousness and Unity” (Quentin Cook); look for the citation The Life and Work of St. Paul by Frederic Farrar (1898); also his complete lack of quoting from the actual text of the “profound epistle” - yet, his citation of the LDS heading (which disagrees with the actual text of Romans) as if it were the actual text of Romans.
The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
Achieving A Celestial Marriage manual
Joseph Smith: here and here; also The Words of Joseph Smith, edited by Andrew Ehat and Lyndon Cook
Jesus the Christ by James Talmage
Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. McConkie
A Rational Theology by John Widtsoe
“Becoming Like God” (Gospel Topics Essays)
Understanding Paul by Richard Lloyd Anderson
Exploring Mormon Thought: The Problems with Theism and the Love of God by Blake Ostler
“Latter-day Saint Perceptions of Jewish Apostasy in the Time of Jesus” by Matthew Grey
Alfred Edersheim: Jewish Scholar for the Mormon Prophets by Marianna Edwards Richardson
The Apostle Paul: His Life and His Testimony (Sidney B. Sperry Symposium on the New Testament); esp. “Hebrew Concepts of Adoption and Redemption in the Writings of Paul” by Jennifer Clark Lane
Watchman on the Tower: Ezra Taft Benson and the Making of the Mormon Right by Matthew L. Harris
The New Testament: A Translation for Latter-day Saints by Thomas Wayment (published by Deseret Book), pg. 266:
- Footnote on Romans 1, vss. 26-27: “These verses have become one of the primary pieces of evidence for the discussion of homosexuality in the New Testament. In Paul’s day, pederasty and other abhorrent sexual practices were more common, particularly in accusations made by religious individuals against foreign religious cults. It is therefore unclear that Paul is condemning the practice of homosexuality but instead may be condemning what he perceives to be strange and foreign sexual practices such as pederasty. From such scant evidence, it remains unclear what actions Paul had in mind here, but it is obviously abhorrent to him.”
Joseph Smith told Alexander Neibaur that he saw Jesus with a light complexion (white skin) and blue eyes (A.N. Journal, May 24,1844) - thus, looking a lot like...Joseph Smith. Whiteness is also true of Mary in 1 Nephi 11.13-15, who is even claimed by some LDS to actually be from England, based on legend.
Some Joseph Smith quotes on these passages:
- “We need not doubt the wisdom and intelligence of the great Jehovah. He will award judgment or mercy to all nations according to their several deserts, their means of obtaining intelligence, the laws by which they are governed, and facilities afforded them of obtaining correct information, and his inscrutable designs in relation to the human family. And when the designs of God shall be made manifest and the curtain of futurity be withdrawn, we shall all of us eventually have to confess that the Judge of all the earth has done right...To say that the heathen would be damned because they did not believe the gospel would be preposterous. And to say that the Jews would be damned that do not believe in Jesus would be equally absurd...Consequently, neither Jew nor heathen can be culpable for rejecting the conflicting opinions of sectarianism, nor for rejecting any testimony but that which is sent of God...”
- “No man can attain to the joint heirship with Jesus Christ without being administered to by one having the same power and authority of Melchizedek.”
- “To become a joint heir of the heirship of the Son, [one] must put away all [one’s] traditions.”
- “[It is] to inherit the same power [and] exaltation, until you ascend the throne of eternal power, same as those who are gone before.”
- “What is it? To inherit the same glory, power, and exaltation, with those who are gone before.”
- “[You will] enjoy the same rise, exaltation, and glory, until you arrive at the station of a God.”
- “The scripture says those who will obey the commandments shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ.”
MRM (Becoming Like God): 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
The Apostolic Preaching of the Cross by Leon Morris
Redemption Accomplished and Applied by John Murray
The Letter to the Romans (NICNT) by Douglas Moo
Father, Son, and Spirit in Romans 8: The Roman Reception of Paul’s Trinitarian Theology by Ron Fay
Adopted into God’s Family: Exploring a Pauline Metaphor (NSBT) by Trevor Burke
We Become What We Worship; Union with the Resurrected Christ by G.K. Beale
Knowing God; Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God by JI Packer
Christianity and Liberalism by J. Gresham Machen
Confessions by St. Augustine
The Trinity: An Introduction by Scott Swain
The Bible and Homosexual Practice: Text and Hermeneutics by Robert Gagnon
Reformed Forum: here, and here
Jason Wallace: here and here ; An Earnest Plea to LDS
The Victorian “Lives of Jesus” by Daniel L. Pals
“Christian Writers on Judaism” by George Foot Moore
In response to the New Perspective on Paul: Here; here; here and here
Cracking the Foundation of the New Perspective on Paul: Covenantal Nomism versus Reformed Covenantal Theology by Robert Cara
Perspectives Old and New on Paul: The "Lutheran" Paul and His Critics by Stephen Westerholm
Justification (2 vol.’s); Covenant and Salvation by Michael Horton
"A Vindication of Imputation: On Fields of Discourse and Semantic Fields" by D. A. Carson
Justification and Variegated Nomism, Vol. 1: The Complexities of Second Temple Judaism and Vol. 2: The Paradoxes of Paul, edited by D.A. Carson, Peter T. O’Brien and Mark A. Seifrid
Where Is Boasting?: Early Jewish Soteriology and Paul's Response in Romans 1-5 by Simon Gathercole
The Whole Christ by Sinclair Ferguson
One book that is very important in regard to addressing some of the exegetical weaknesses of past commentary on the early parts of Romans, and yet demonstrates the inability of the New Perspective scholars to answer them is Uncovering the Theme of Revelation in Romans 1:16-3:26 by Marcus Mininger. Often, the New Perspective has pointed out a weakness and then used that as a springboard for their own view, without actually answering the very exegetical questions they have asked of others. Mininger's book is incredibly important work.
One scholar's concluding remark regarding the NPP is worth including: "In spite of recent challenges, I believe [the traditional, forensic] understanding of Paul's justification does better justice to the Pauline texts. It cannot be dismissed by the claim that the ancients were not concerned to find a gracious God (how could they not be, in the fact of pending divine judgment?); or that it wrongly casts first-century Jews as legalists (its target is rather the sinfulness of all human beings); or that non-Christian Jews, too, depended on divine grace (of course they did, but without Paul's need to distinguish grace from works); or that 'righteousness' means "membership in the covenant" (never did, never will) and the expression "works of the law" refers to boundary markers of the Jewish people (it refers to all the 'righteous' deeds required by the law as its path to righteousness).
Modern scholars are correct in noting that Paul first focused on language of justification in response to the question whether Gentile believers in Christ should be circumcised. They are right to emphasize the social implications of Paul's doctrine of justification (what it meant 'on the ground') in his own day, and are free to draw out its social implications for our own. But the doctrine of justification means that God declares sinners righteous, apart from righteous deeds, when they believe in Jesus Christ. Those so made righteous represent the new humanity, the people of God's new creation." (Justification Reconsidered by Stephen Westerholm)
The Aryan Jesus: Christian Theologians and the Bible in Nazi Germany by Susannah Heschel
The Lie That Wouldn't Die: The Protocols of the Elders of Zion or (a more recent edition) The Lie That Will Not Die: The Protocols of the Elders of Zion by Hadassa Ben-Itto
The Popes Against the Jews: The Vatican’s Role in the Rise of Modern Antisemitism by David Kertzer
Theologians Under Hitler by Robert P. Ericksen
Our Hands Are Stained with Blood; Christian Antisemitism by Michael Brown
The Aryan Christ: The Secret Life of Carl Jung by Richard Noll
1h 36m | Aug 14, 2023 - 33. When "grace" is natural, the Cross ignored, and exaltation is a ladder
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the thirty-third lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Aug. 7-13) is titled "The Power of God unto Salvation" and covers Romans 1-6.
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Pastor Brendon's Colossians series can be found here.
Seminary Manual: here and here
D&C 20; 2 Nephi 25.23; Moroni 10.32
Gospel Principles Manual
The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
"Justification and Sanctification" (D. Todd Christofferson)
Understanding Paul by Richard Lloyd Anderson
The Apostle Paul: His Life and His Testimony (The 23rd Annual Sidney B. Sperry Symposium)
Exploring Mormon Thought: The Problems with Theism and the Love of God by Blake Ostler (also here, here, and here)
A Rational Theology by John A. Widtsoe
The Great and Abominable Church of the Devil by H. Verlan Andersen
Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. McConkie
"His Grace Is Sufficient" (Brad Wilcox); also here
Martyn Lloyd-Jones Romans series
The Apostolic Preaching of the Cross by Leon Morris
The Holiness of God by R.C. Sproul
The God Who Is There by D.A. Carson
The God Who Justifies by James White
Core Christianity; Christless Christianity by Michael Horton (also here and here)
American Gospel: Christ Crucified
What is the Gospel? (Voddie Baucham)
"The Power and Message of the Cross" by Alistair Begg
40 Questions About Christians and Biblical Law by Thomas Schreiner
Union with the Resurrected Christ by G.K. Beale
The Letter to the Romans (NICNT) by Douglas Moo
Uncovering the Theme of Revelation in Romans 1:16-3:26 by Marcus Mininger
Paul: An Outline of His Theology by Herman Ridderbos
The Trinitarian Theology of Cornelius Van Til by Lane Tipton
The Defense of the Faith by Cornelius Van Til
In response to the New Perspective on Paul:
Cracking the Foundation of the New Perspective on Paul: Covenantal Nomism versus Reformed Covenantal Theology by Robert Cara
Perspectives Old and New on Paul: The "Lutheran" Paul and His Critics by Stephen Westerholm
Justification (2 vol.'s); Covenant and Salvation by Michael Horton
Justification and Variegated Nomism; Vol. 1: The Complexities of Second Temple Judaism and Vol. 2: The Paradoxes of Paul, edited by D.A. Carson, Peter T. O'Brien and Mark A. Seifrid
The Whole Christ by Sinclair Ferguson
1h 27m | Aug 7, 2023
