- 22. ...And there are also False Prophecies!
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the twenty-second lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (May 22-28) is titled "The Son of Man Shall Come" and covers Joseph Smith-Matthew 1, Mark 12-13, and Luke 21.
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
CORRECTION: The JST, when compared with his KJV equivalent - has only 118 changes in Romans. There were 1,554 changes to the Gospels. (Mormons and the Bible, p. 54; also see this issue in the context of ch.'s 1-3 of An Insider's View of Mormon Origins by Grant Palmer.)
It should be noted that in Mark 12 - Jesus, when asked what the greatest commandment is, begins with the Shema and thus, the monotheism denied in Mormon and/or LDS theology.
Contrary to what seems to be popular understanding among LDS, the Trinity is a monotheistic doctrine, and to claim that the Godhead are "three separate beings and persons" is to be polytheistic, no matter the aesthetic preference of someone like Jeffrey Holland. (also see here, and here to see how Joseph Smith spoke about the Trinity; also see The Trinity: An Introduction by Scott Swain for a short introduction to the foundational Christian doctrine.)
Moses warns against false prophets who lead people after other gods (Deut. 13.1-5); and Paul warns in Galatians that "even if we or an angel from heaven" preach a different gospel, let him/her be anathema, as well as warning against false apostles, men who preach "another Christ" - saying that "even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." (Gal. 1.7, 2 Cor. 11.4,13-14) And of course, the apostle John warns against "false prophets" and commands we "test the spirits". (1 John 4.1-3)
Sources:
Joseph Smith - Matthew (in the 1968 version, the heading above says "Writings of Joseph Smith")
Sunday school manual: here
Why the King James Version by J. Reuben Clark
New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
Gospel Principles manual: here, here, here
JST Revelation; Sermon in the Grove (Joseph Smith)
A Voice of Warning by Parley Pratt; The Seer by Orson Pratt
The Culture of Christ (William Jackson)
The Office of Patriarch (Boyd K. Packer); also here and here
The Words of Joseph Smith, ed. by Andrew Ehat and Lyndon Cook; wherein it documents Joseph Smith stating: "I prophesy in the name of the Lord God - and let it be written - that the Son of Man will not come in the heavens till I am 85 years old, 48 years hence or about 1890." (p.180)
Brigham Young (JD 13.309); Jedediah Grant (JD 1.346);
Orson Hyde (JD 4.259); Wilford Woodruff (JD 18.37, 21.195)
Brigham Young also taught this in regard to the title "Son of Man", connected to his teaching that Michael is god:"[I]t is most significant that in the Hebrew language the word for man is Adam, hence in the some-odd 84 passages in the gospels when Jesus referred to himself as the Son of Man, it can be taken quite literally as a claim on Jesus' part that he was the son of Adam." (Teachings of President Brigham Young, 3:327)
Conflict in the Quorum by Gary Bergera
Power From On High: The Development of Mormon Priesthood by Gregory Prince
Mormons and the Bible by Philip Barlow
The Mormon Jesus by John Turner
As A Thief In the Night by Dan Erickson
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Sandra and Jerald Tanner
Joseph Smith claimed: "I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam...Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet..." (HC 6:408; here)
D&C 84 (false prophecy about New Jerusalem)
- JD 9.71 (George A. Smith)
- JD 10.344 (George Q. Cannon)
- JD 13. 360,362; JD 14.276 (Orson Pratt)
D&C 114 (false prophecy about apostle David W. Patten - who would die Oct. 25, 1838 in the Battle of Crooked River; also see DHC 3.170-175)
D&C 130 (expectation that Jesus would come back in around 1890)
- Prophet/President Wilford Woodruff, alone, predicted British LDS would remain on earth "until the coming of Christ" (Jan. 26, 1840); told the LDS in northern Arizona "There will be no United States in the year 1890" (June 28, 1879); stated (by revelation) that the second coming was "nigh at the door" (Jan. 26, 1880); promised LDS in Manti "that thousands of the children...would not die but would live to see the Saviour come" (Aug. 14, 1881); told LDS in St. George that "there were thousands living in [the] mountains at [that] time that would see the son of God come and many would not taste death" (Mar. 20, 1881) - and similar predictions on Dec. 31, 1885, and then on Feb. 16, 1886. And that is just one of the early apostles/prophets! (As a Thief in the Night by Dan Erickson, pp. 83, 187-88, 190-191, 197)
It should be noted that this is the context for the Manifesto on polygamy - esp. in light of Wilford Woodruff (then senior apostle!) even prophesying in the Manti Temple that "we are not going to stop the practice of plural marriage until the coming of the Son of man." (ibid., p.200, also here)
- Moreover, "in 1879-1880 the church published a new edition of the Doctrine and Covenants, edited by Apostle Orson Pratt and containing footnotes and references for the first time. Canonized at October 1880 general conference, it officially endorsed lay member millennial expectation. Pratt's footnotes for Section 130 highlighted Joseph Smith's 85-year millennial prophecy, adding in the commentary section confirmation of the fateful time frame 'near the end of the year 1890.' Pratt also cross-referenced the revelation to "See prophecy of Joseph, uttered 14 March 1835...'Even 56 years should wind up the scene.'" To many there was no doubt the Son of Man would make his appearance in 1890-91." (ibid., pp.188-189)
Joseph Smith told Alexander Neibaur that he saw Jesus with a light complexion (white skin) and blue eyes (A.N. Journal, May 24,1844). Yes, Jesus is a white man, according to the founding Mormon/LDS prophet. This is related to some racial issues in LDS history and has clearly impacted LDS art to this day, as should be obvious throughout any official sources. (Whiteness is also true of Mary in 1 Nephi 11.13-15, who is even claimed by some LDS to actually be from England, based on legend.) Also see Mormonism - Shadow or Reality, ch. 21.
Also see Religion of a Different Color by W. Paul Reeve for many of the ironies in both American and Mormon history on racial issues and race-relations.
On the JST:
- The Joseph Smith Translation and Ancient Texts of the Bible by Kevin Barney; "In short, the JST phrasing is apparently Joseph Smith's way of getting his theological point across...No parallel ancient variants exist for the majority of JST readings. This lack of textual support suggests that the JST does not restore actual textual material. Some scriptural exegetes have hypothesized deliberate and widespread textual corruptions early enough to be incorporated into biblical manuscripts which have survived. Since the original autographs are irrecoverable, this assertion cannot be completely disproven, but it has been weakened with the discovery of Hebrew texts from the Old Testament as early as the second century B.C. which support the basic integrity of the later manuscripts. Some New Testament manuscripts date to the fourth, third, and even second centuries A.D., leaving an increasingly small frame of time in which the hypothesized textual corruptions could have occurred." (p.86) In his conclusion, he states: "We have seen that the majority of JST changes lack ancient textual support. Although we cannot say with complete assurance what stood in the original text, manuscript discoveries have made the argument that there could have been massive early deletions from the text untenable, at least for the New Testament." (p.100)
- Thomas Wayment, who did the translation that even the Interpreter was whole-heartedly promoting on their podcast, did some of the more recent work on the connection of the JST to Adam Clarke's Bible Commentary - which explains even some of the things Smith supposedly did correctly. RFM covers the subject well here, and here. (The main source being a chapter in the book Producing Ancient Scripture: Joseph Smith's Translation Projects in the Development of Mormon Christianity)
Fundamentalism and American Culture by George Marsden
Turning Points by Mark Noll
God's Strange Work: William Miller and the End of the World by David Rowe
Crucible of the Millennium by Michael Barkun
An Earnest Plea to Charismatics; An Earnest Plea to Seventh-day Adventists (Jason Wallace)
The War for Righteousness: Progressive Christianity, the Great War, and the Rise of the Messianic Nation by Richard Gamble
Woodrow Wilson and the Roots of Modern Liberalism by Ronald Pestritto
Paradise Now: The Story of American Utopianism by Chris Jennings
American Jesus by Stephen Prothero
The Doctrine of the Word of God by John Frame
Matthew (The Expositor's Bible Commentary); The King James Version Debate: A Plea For Realism by D.A. Carson
The King James Only Controversy by James White
Scribes and Scripture by John Meade and Peter Gurry
In the Beginning by Alister McGrath
God's Secretaries by Adam Nicolson
Three Views on the Millennium and Beyond, ed. Darrell Bock (also here)
A Case For Amillennialism: Understanding the End Time; The Man of Sin: Uncovering the Truth about the Antichrist by Kim Riddlebarger
Victory in Jesus: The Bright Hope of Postmillennialism by Greg Bahnsen
The Bible vs. Don Preston; The Church Impotent (Jason Wallace)
The Returning King: A Guide to the Book of Revelation by Vern Poythress
Triumph of the Lamb by Dennis Johnson
The Temple and the Church's Mission; The Book of Revelation (NIGTC); God Dwells Among Us by G. K. Beale
All Things New (NSBT) by Brian Tabb
Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman
No Place For Truth; Above All Earthy Pow'rs by David Wells
Institutes of the Christian Religion by John Calvin
Hearing God's Words: Exploring Biblical Spirituality (NSBT) by Peter Adam
The Word is Worth a Thousand Pictures by Gregory Reynolds
War Against the Idols by Carlos Eire
From Icons to Idols, ed. by David Davis
1h 4m | May 22, 2023 - 21. No Shema - No Christianity; and King means King
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the twenty-first lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (May 15-21) is titled "Behold, Thy King Cometh", and covers Matthew 21-23, Mark 11, Luke 19-20, and John 12.
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Sources:
Seminary Manual: Matthew 21:1-11; Matthew 22:34-40
New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
"Wrong Roads and Revelation" (Holland; and here)
"The Second Great Commandment" (Russell Nelson)
"The Light of Christ" (Boyd Packer)
"Two Great Commandments" (Dallin Oaks)
"The Constitution: A Glorious Standard" ; God, Family, Country: Our Three Great Loyalties; and This Nation Shall Endure by Ezra Taft Benson (here)
"The True, Pure, and Simple Gospel of Jesus Christ" (M. Russell Ballard)
Brigham Young: JD 7.8; JD 10.254; Joseph F. Smith; George Albert Smith
True Meaning of the Atonement; The 5000 Year Leap by Cleon Skousen (also: The Real Thomas Jefferson)
The Life of John Taylor by B. H. Roberts
"How To Love Yourself Like God Loves You"
Many Are Called but Few Are Chosen; The Book of Mormon and the Constitution by H. Verlan Andersen
Approaching Zion by Hugh Nibley
It should be noted that there are political anarchists, both of the libertarian variety and the socialist variety who both claim Mormon principles and are members of the LDS church.
Watchman on the Tower: Ezra Taft Benson and the Making of the Mormon Right by Matthew L. Harris; Thunder From Right, ed. by Matthew L. Harris
In Sacred Loneliness by Todd Compton
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? Sandra and Jerald Tanner
Miscellaneous:
John Locke (also, on British empiricism: here, here)
Thomas Jefferson - e.g. here and here (original letters)
Thomas Jefferson: Revolutionary by Kevin Gutzman
The Americanization of Benjamin Franklin by Gordon Wood
Did America Have a Christian Founding? by Mark David Hall (also here); also see One Nation Under God? by John Wilsey
The Myth of American Individualism by Barry Alan Shain; also see The Constitutional Origins of the American Revolution by Jack Greene
Lenin: The Man, the Dictator, and the Master of Terror by Victor Sebestyen; see also The Harvest of Sorrow by Robert Conquest
Resources:
The Triumphal Entry; and City of God (WHI)
The Gospel of Matthew (TNICNT) by R.T. France
The Gospel According to John (PNTC) by D.A. Carson
On Christian Doctrine by St. Augustine
The Trinity: An Introduction by Scott Swain
Slave of Christ: A New Testament metaphor for total devotion to Christ by Murray J. Harris
Christ Is King by Joshua Jipp
The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self: Cultural Amnesia, Expressive Individualism, and the Road to Sexual Revolution; Strange New World; Republocrat by Carl Trueman
Five Proofs of the Existence of God by Edward Feser; see also Christian Theistic Evidences by Cornelius Van Til
The Bible Among the Myths by John Oswalt
In Defense of the Eschaton by William Dennison
New Testament History by F.F. Bruce
Christianity and Liberalism; The Person of Jesus by J. Gresham Machen
Core Christianity; Christless Christianity by Michael Horton (also here and here)
American Gospel: Christ Crucified
What is the Gospel? (Voddie Baucham)
Active and Passive Obedience of Christ (Simply Put)
Grace and Glory by Geerhadus Vos (also here)
The Difficult Doctrine of the Love of God by D.A. Carson
How the Nations Rage: Rethinking Faith and Politics in a Divided Age by Jonathan Leeman
Political Gospel: Public Witness in a Politically Crazy World by Patrick Schreiner
American Awakening: Identity Politics and Other Afflictions of Our Time by Joshua Mitchell
In Search of the City on a Hill by Richard Gamble
Augustine and the Limits of Politics by Jean Bethike Elshtain
1h 24m | May 15, 2023 - 20. The Family - A Proclamation: Ambiguity, Idolatry, and Eunuchs
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the twentieth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (May 8-14) is titled "What Lack I Yet?", and covers Matthew 19-20, Mark 10, and Luke 18.
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
*Fanny Alger was seventeen years old! It was Helen Mar Kimball who was fourteen years old.
Sources:
D&C 132; original D&C 101; D&C 26.2; D&C 28.13
"The Family: A Proclamation to the World"
The Revelations of the Prophet Joseph Smith by Lyndon W. Cook
Seminary Manual: Matt 19.1-12; Matt 19:16-30
New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
Gospel Topics Essay: Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo, where in it states that one of his wives, Helen Mar Kimball, was "sealed to Joseph several months before her fifteenth birthday". That must be the LDS church's way of saying that she was fourteen. (See also HC 6.411)
"The Love and Laws of God" (Russell Nelson)
"Two Great Commandments" (Dallin Oaks)
Compare audio and text: "Cleansing the Inner Vessel" (Boyd Packer)
LDS Living Article - note: Nelson sealed to more than one wife
Gordon B. Hinckley on Larry King Live
"Obedience, Consecration, and Sacrifice" (Bruce R. McConkie)
Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. McConkie
"Monogamy, or restrictions by law to one wife, is no part of the economy of heaven among men. Such a system was commenced by the founders of the Roman empire...Rome became the mistress of the world, and introduced monogamy wherever her sway was acknowledged. Thus this monogamic order of marriage, so esteemed by modern Christians as a holy sacrament and divine institution, is nothing but a system established by set of robbers...Why do we believe in and practice polygamy? Because the Lord introduced it to his servants in a revelation given to Joseph Smith, and the Lord's servants have always practised it. 'And is that religion popular in heaven?' It is the only popular religion there,..." (The Deseret News, August 6, 1842)
"The one-wife system not only degenerates the human family, both physically and intellectually, but it is entirely incompatible with philosophical notions of immortality..." (Millennial Star, vol. 15, p. 227)
The Pratt-Newman Debate: "Does the Bible Sanction Polygamy?" (here)
The Seer by Orson Pratt (pp. 12, 124-125, 178; also JD 13.195)
Brigham Young: "The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy." (JD 11. 269); see also JD 13.317
John Taylor: JD 11.221
Heber C. Kimball: "You might as well deny 'Mormonism,' and turn away from it, as to oppose the plurality of wives. Let the Presidency of this Church, and the Twelve Apostles, and all the authorities unite and say with one voice that they will oppose that doctrine, and the whole of them would be damned." (JD 5.203); see also JD 23.278
Joseph F. Smith: JD 20.28-31
D&C 130 (expectation that Jesus would come back in around 1890)
- Prophet/President Wilford Woodruff, alone, predicted British LDS would remain on earth "until the coming of Christ" (Jan. 26, 1840); told the LDS in northern Arizona "There will be no United States in the year 1890" (June 28, 1879); stated (by revelation) that the second coming was "nigh at the door" (Jan. 26, 1880); promised LDS in Manti "that thousands of the children...would not die but would live to see the Saviour come" (Aug. 14, 1881); told LDS in St. George that "there were thousands living in [the] mountains at [that] time that would see the son of God come and many would not taste death" (Mar. 20, 1881) - and similar predictions on Dec. 31, 1885, and then on Feb. 16, 1886. And that is just one of the early apostles/prophets! (As a Thief in the Night by Dan Erickson, pp. 83, 187-88, 190-191, 197)
It should be noted that this is the context for the Manifesto on polygamy - esp. in light of Wilford Woodruff (then senior apostle!) even prophesying in the Manti Temple that "we are not going to stop the practice of plural marriage until the coming of the Son of man." (ibid., p.200, also here)
In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith by Todd Compton
Junius and Joseph by Robert Wicks and Fred Foister
Conflict in the Quorum by Gary Bergera
The Mormon Jesus by John Turner
"LDS Church Authority and New Plural Marriages, 1890-1904" by D. Michael Quinn
"The Art of Scripture and Scripture as Art: The Proclamation on the Family and the Expanding Canon" by Boyd J. Petersen and David W. Scott (found in The Expanded Canon, ed. by Blair G. Van Dyke et al.)
Gay Rights and the Mormon Church by Gregory A. Prince (esp. ch.'s 4-6, 19, 28); also here
No Man Knows My History by Fawn Brodie
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner
An Earnest Plea to LDS; Magical Mormon Scriptures (Jason Wallace)
Resources:
Paradise Now: The Story of American Utopianism by Chris Jennings
The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self; Strange New World by Carl Trueman
The Bible Among the Myths by John Oswalt
From Sacrament to Contract by John Witte
Envy by Helmut Shoeck
Matthew: A Mentor Commentary (2 vols.) by Knox Chamblin
Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes by Kenneth Bailey
Stories with Intent by Klyne Snodgrass
They Also Taught in Parables by Harvey McArthur and Robert Johnston
Christianity and Liberalism; The Person of Jesus by J. Gresham Machen
Core Christianity; Christless Christianity by Michael Horton (also here and here)
American Gospel: Christ Crucified
What is the Gospel? (Voddie Baucham)
Active and Passive Obedience of Christ (Simply Put)
Grace and Glory by Geerhadus Vos (also here)
You Are Not Your Sexuality (Sam Allberry)
The Secret Thoughts of an Unlikely Convert by Rosaria Butterfield
God & Sex (Reality SF)
Washed and Waiting by Wesley Hill
1h 31m | May 8, 2023 - 19. Does man seek God? Or does God seek man?
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the nineteenth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (May 1-7) is titled "Rejoice with Me; for I Have Found My Sheep Which Was Lost", and covers Luke 12-17 and John 11.
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Kyler T. Wakefield; Native American Voting Rights in Utah: Federal Policy, Citizenship, and Voter Suppression. Utah Historical Quarterly 1 January 2023; 91 (1): 4–22. doi: https://doi.org/10.5406/26428652.91.1.01
*The paper, specific to Utah - does speak of broader issues that have affected Native Americans throughout the continental US and Alaska. Utah was the last state in the union to lift restrictions on voting for Native Americans in 1957 - though barriers have persisted in ways the article documents and discusses.
- Also see A History of Utah's American Indians, ed. by Forrest Cuch
1984 by George Orwell
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
Amusing Ourselves To Death by Neil Postman
The Age of AI by Jason Thacker
LDS Sources:
Sunday School Manual: Luke 17.11-19 (wherein Nelson states: "As a doctor I know the value of good therapy..."); Luke 15
Your Best Year Ever: A 5-Step Plan For Achieving Your Most Important Goals by Michael Hyatt
Faith In Him Will Move Mountains; Drawing the Power of Jesus Christ into Our Lives (Russell Nelson)
New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
The Constitution: A Heavenly Banner (Ezra Taft Benson)
Many Mansions: The Edgar Cayce Story on Reincarnation by Gina Cerminara
Brigham Young: JD 1.93; JD 4. 218; JD 10.5; 10.355; JD 18.260
Heber C. Kimball: JD 1. 355-357; JD 3.108; JD 4.329
Wilford Woodruff: JD 6.120
Note 1: Charles Harrell points out the shift in Mormon/LDS theology in the Nauvoo Period: "In the book of Abraham, the basis of foreordination shifts from God's knowledge of a person's future righteousness in mortality to a knowledge of that person's premortal righteousness...(cites Abraham 3.22-23) Thus, foreordination is explained as being based on premortal nobility...Today, Mormons generally follow Joseph Smith's later teaching that the foreordination of prophets and other individuals called to fill special missions is based on premortal worthiness." ("This Is My Doctrine": The Development of Mormon Theology by Charles R. Harrell); This was the foundation of the famous racial priesthood and temple restrictions. (see pp. 388-391; also here and here) In the Gospel Principles manual it states: "the prophets prepared themselves to become leaders on earth while they were still spirits in heaven."
Note 2: On a "plausible example of how Joseph may have used his biblical knowledge" to write the Book of Mormon - using a comparison of John 11 and Alma 19 as the example, see An Insider's View of Mormon Origins by Grant Palmer, p. 48f
Religion of a Different Color by W. Paul Reeve
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner
Empire of the Summer Moon by S.C. Gwynne
Resources:
"Yes, and if oxen and horses or lions had hands, and could paint with their hands, and produce works of art as men do, horses would paint the forms of the gods like horses, and oxen like oxen, and make their bodies in the image of their several kinds." Xenophon, Fragment 15; see Classical Philosophy by Peter Adamson, pp.16-22 and Twelve Greeks and Romans Who Changed the World by Carl Richard, p. 20
Christianity and Liberalism; The Person of Jesus by J. Gresham Machen
Thanksgiving (NSBT) by David Pao
Stories with Intent by Klyne Snodgrass
Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes; The Cross and the Prodigal; Poet and Peasant and through Peasant Eyes by Kenneth Bailey (also here)
Christless Christianity by Michael Horton (also here, here)
The Attributes of God: An Introduction by Gerald Bray
All that is in God by James Dolezal (also here, here)
The Difficult Doctrine of the Love of God by D.A. Carson
On David Alexander (Aaron Shafovaloff)
1h 12m | May 1, 2023 - 18. Is Jesus the Way - or an example of one who followed it?
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the eighteenth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Apr. 24-30) is titled "I Am the Good Shepard", and covers John 7-10.
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Sources:
JSH 1; D&C 88; D&C 89; D&C 93; Moses 1.39; Articles of Faith
Seminary Manual: John 7, John 7.17, John 8 (JST 8:11), John 10
Gospel Principles, ch. 3; ch. 7; "Plain and Precious Things" (1 Ne 13)
New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
King Follett Discourse (Joseph Smith)
The Light of Christ (Boyd K. Packer)
Thanks Be To God (Russell Nelson)
Learn of Me (Thomas Monson)
Is should be noted that James E. Talmage did take note of the textual critical issue in a footnote, though he dismisses the idea that the pericope is not authentic to John. (see footnote 5; here)
A Rational Theology by John Widtsoe
Gospel Trilogy by W. Cleon Skousen
Doctrinal New Testament Commentary by Bruce R. McConkie
Brigham Young: JD 1.93; JD 4. 218; JD 10.5; 10.355; JD 18.260
Heber C. Kimball: JD 1. 355-357; JD 3.108; JD 4.329
Wilford Woodruff: JD 6.120
It is worth including section from footnote 9 (in WPJS, p. 83-84 - though I have changed the format), discussing Joseph Smith's theology:
"This is the first mention by the Prophet Joseph Smith of the extremely important concept in Mormon theology that God the Father once had a mortal probation and was resurrected with a body of flesh and bones...The following syllogistic argument used today for Mormonism's concept that God the Father once lived on an earth was not used or understood by the early Saints. The basic reasoning used today is as follows:
- All men are raised with their physical bodies in the resurrection (Alma 40:23, printed in 1830)
- Jesus, the Son of God and the great prototype (John 14.6-9), was the express image of his Father (Hebrews 1:3) and was resurrected with his corporeal body.
- In the celestial resurrection men can become gods (D&C 76:58 [51-58], 1832 revelation)
- Therefore, God the Father must have a body of resurrected flesh and bones that he obtained following his own earth life."
The character at the veil through whom one seek admission beyond it is labelled "Lord" - though it should be noted it isn't specifically Elohim or Jehovah. (See here) Most interpret this character as Jesus and that should've been said in the episode. However, even assuming that fact - notice - this character is there to test how far the person has progressed, as he (the Lord) himself progressed before. In other words, he isn't really the door - but someone who has passed through the door (like all gods before him), and is there for when we progress to such a point, to test us - and then, based on our grade in that test, is then allowed to bring individuals through the veil who have themselves progressed to that point and pass the test. (also here, and here - if different format is preferred.)
Mormons and the Bible by Philip Barlow
The Mormon Jesus by John Turner
The Vanishing Lamanites; The Magical Mormon Scriptures; Was the Burning in Your Bosom From God? (Jason Wallace)
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner
The Mound Builder Myth: Fake History and the Hunt for a "Lost White Race" by Jason Colavito
By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus by Charles Larson (also here and here)
Resources:
The Consequences of Ideas by R.C. Sproul
Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman
Christianity and Liberalism by J. Gresham Machen
Return of the God Hypothesis by Stephen Meyer
The Trinity: An Introduction by Scott Swain
Father, Son and Spirit: The Trinity and John's Gospel by Scott Swain and Andreas Kostenberger
Testimony of the Beloved Disciple by Richard Bauckham
The Gospel According To John (PNTC) by D. A. Carson
The Gospel of John by F.F. Bruce
The Gospel According To John (I-XII) by Raymond Brown
The King James Only Controversy by James White
Scribes and Scriptures by John Meade and Peter Gurry
Jesus and the Manuscripts by Craig Evans
Myths and Mistakes in New Testament Textual Criticism, ed. by Elijah Hixson and Peter Gurry
The Text of the New Testament by Bruce Metzger (also here)
Revisiting the Corruption of the New Testament, ed. by Dan Wallace
To Cast the First Stone by Jennifer Knust and Tommy Wasserman
Active and Passive Obedience of Christ ; Adiaphora (Simply Put)
Modern Spirituality and Your Mind; What Is the Gospel (Voddie Baucham)
The Gospel of Pragmatism; American Spirituality (WHI)
Robert Barron: Christ as "privileged path for salvation" (here)
Second Vatican Council; to cite a kind-of parallel to the ecumenism mentioned was in a First Presidency statement of February 15, 1978.
Revolution in Rome by David Wells
Note: Here is an extended quotation from scholar Scott Swain:
"As God's being and works are common to all three persons of the Trinity, so too is God's authority. As the Father is "Lord of heaven and earth" (Matt. 11:25), so he has granted the Son "all authority in heaven and on earth (Matt. 28:18; so 11:27). Indeed, according to the author of Hebrews, 'the Holy Spirit is the selfsame Lord who utters the divine warning published in Psalm 95:7-11...Father, Son, and Holy Spirit share one divine sovereignty, one divine authority over all creatures.
The point is further confirmed in John 10:22-30. This passage echoes many of the themes that appear in Psalm 95. The relationship between Jesus and his people is portrayed as a relationship between a shepherd and his 'sheep' (John 10:27; Psalm 95:7) who are in his 'hand' (John 10:28-29); see Ps. 95:7). The language of 'greatness' is used as well, with Jesus declaring, 'My Father...is greater than all' (John 10:29; see Ps. 95:3). Finally, John 10 emphasizes that Jesus' sheep will 'hear' his 'voice' and enter into eternal life (John 10:27-28; see Ps. 95:7,11). With respect to the present discussion, the important thing to note is that Jesus claims to be 'one' with his Father who is 'greater than all' (John 10:29-30), a clear echo of Deuteronomy 6:4 ('the Lord is one') and elicits the charge of blasphemy of Jesus' opponents (John 10:31-39).
Jesus, the Good Shepard, is 'one' with his Father, who is 'greater than all'. All that the Father has, Jesus has (John 16:14-15). One Lord with his Father (Deut. 6:4; 1 Cor. 8:6), he is a great God and great King above all gods (1 Cor. 8:5), the shepherd of his flock, the voice that gives eternal life to all who hear and follow his voice (Ps. 95)." (The Trinity: An Introduction, pp. 116-117)
1h 16m | Apr 24, 2023 - (Bonus Ep. 4) Less Recap and Many Things
In this episode, Skyler flies solo and covers a bunch of things that could've been covered in the lesson material for three past episodes, and yet could be covered in much more detail than even in this episode.
1) Seminary Manual: Matt 8; Luke 7:11-17
Words of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 59-60; compare with Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.180 -181 - where, for example, Joseph Fielding Smith leaves out the fact that Joseph Smith said that John C. Bennett was "a superior orator" than the apostle Paul.
It is worth including section from footnote 9 (in WPJS, p. 83-84 - though I have changed the format), discussing the theology in this material from Smith which is still being included the above-linked seminary manual:
"This is the first mention by the Prophet Joseph Smith of the extremely important concept in Mormon theology that God the Father once had a mortal probation and was resurrected with a body of flesh and bones...The following syllogistic argument used today for Mormonism's concept that God the Father once lived on an earth was not used or understood by the early Saints. The basic reasoning used today is as follows:
- All men are raised with their physical bodies in the resurrection (Alma 40:23, printed in 1830)
- Jesus, the Son of God and the great prototype (John 14.6-9), was the express image of his Father (Hebrews 1:3) and was resurrected with his corporeal body.
- In the celestial resurrection men can become gods (D&C 76:58 [51-58], 1832 revelation)
- Therefore, God the Father must have a body of resurrected flesh and bones that he obtained following his own earth life."
2) Seminary Manual: Matt. 8:23-27; Mark 4.35-41
Recovering Our Sanity: How the Fear of God Conquers the Fears that Divide Us by Michael Horton
Rejoice and Tremble: The Surprising Good News of the Fear of the Lord by Michael Reeves
What Is Faith? by J. Gresham Machen
3) The Parable of the Sower (Dallin Oaks)
Faith - The Choice Is Yours (Richard Edgley)
American Gospel: Christ Crucified
What is the Gospel? (Voddie Baucham)
Terry Johnson (here)
Mark 1-8 by Joel Marcus
4) Seminary Manual: Matt. 13:3-8, 18-23
"Huldah's Long Shadow" by Julie M. Smith (footnote 13), found in A Dream, a Rock, and a Pillar of Fire, ed. Adam Miller
Temple Theology: An Introduction by Margaret Barker
The Nag Hammadi Scriptures, ed. Marvin Meyer (specifically On the Origin of the World, also here)
No Man Knows My History by Fawn Brodie (pp. 58-59)
History of Joseph Smith by His Mother by Lucy Mack Smith
Mormonism and the Magic World View by D. Michael Quinn
Conflict in the Quorum by Gary Bergera
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner
The Mound Builder Myth: Fake History and the Hunt for a "Lost White Race" by Jason Colavito
When Prophecy Fails by Leon Festinger
D&C 130 (expectation that Jesus would come back in around 1890)
- Prophet/President Wilford Woodruff, alone, predicted British LDS would remain on earth "until the coming of Christ" (Jan. 26, 1840); told the LDS in northern Arizona "There will be no United States in the year 1890" (June 28, 1879); stated (by revelation) that the second coming was "nigh at the door" (Jan. 26, 1880); promised LDS in Manti "that thousands of the children...would not die but would live to see the Saviour come" (Aug. 14, 1881); told LDS in St. George that "there were thousands living in [the] mountains at [that] time that would see the son of God come and many would not taste death" (Mar. 20, 1881) - and similar predictions on Dec. 31, 1885, and then on Feb. 16, 1886. And that is just one of the early apostles/prophets! (As a Thief in the Night by Dan Erickson, pp. 83, 187-88, 190-191, 197)
It should be noted that this is the context for the Manifesto on polygamy - esp. in light of Wilford Woodruff (then senior apostle!) even prophesying in the Manti Temple that "we are not going to stop the practice of plural marriage until the coming of the Son of man." (ibid., p.200, also here)
Against Heresies by Irenaeus
Confessions by St. Augustine
What Is Faith? by J. Gresham Machen (also here)
The Territories of Science and Religion by Peter Harrison
The Origins of Science and the Science of its Origins by Stanley Jaki
The Return of the God Hypothesis by Stephen Meyer
Greg Bahnsen v. Gordon Stein debate
Moses warns against false prophets who lead people after other gods (Deut. 13.1-5; 18.20-22); and Paul warns in Galatians that "even if we or an angel from heaven" preach a different gospel, let him/her be anathema, as well as warning against false apostles, men who preach "another Christ" - saying that "even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." (Gal. 1.7, 2 Cor. 11.4,13-14) And of course, the apostle John warns against "false prophets" and commands we "test the spirits". (1John 4.1-3)
5) Seminary Manual: Matt 13:24-30, 36-43
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 97-99; where Joseph Smith teaches that "the Church is in its infancy, and if you take this rash step, you will destroy the wheat, or the Church, with the tares; therefore, it is better to let them grow together until the harvest, or the end of the world..." Yet, if that is the case, where is the basis for this including the notion of the disappearance of the Church, as in the Great Apostasy?
Words of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 13
Joseph Smith's Commentary on the Bible, pp. 95-97
New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
Terry Johnson (here, here, here and here)
Stories With Intent by Klyne Snodgrass
The Challenge of Jesus' Parables by Richard Longenecker
A Case for Amillenialism: Understanding the End Times by Kim Riddlebarger
6) Seminary Manual: Matt 13; Matt 13: 24-30, 36-43 (also here)
Joseph Smith and World Government by Hyrum Andrus (e.g. on p.9 - he includes a quote from President George Q. Cannon stating: "We are asked, Is the Church of God, and the Kingdom of God the same organization? And we are informed that some of the brethren hold that they are separate. This is the correct view to take. The Kingdom of God is a separate organization from the Church of God.")
Brigham Young: JD 2. 310
The Council of Fifty (also here)
The Great and Abominable Church of the Devil by H. Verlan Andersen
This is very different than the view taken by James Talmage in his book Jesus the Christ
And all of this is different than the Kingdom of God, biblically understood:
Divine Government: God's Kingship in the Gospel of Mark by R.T. France
The Kingdom of God and the Church by Geerhardus Vos
The Coming of the Kingdom by Herman Ridderbos
Kingdom Through Covenant by Peter Gentry and Stephen Wellum
An Earnest Plea to LDS (Jason Wallace)
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner
7) Bearing Up Their Burdens With Ease (David Bednar)
"Today is April 6. We know by revelation that today is the actual and accurate date of the Savior’s birth. April 6 also is the day on which The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized."
D&C 20.1; Messages of the First Presidency 4.28; No mention here
Jesus the Christ by James Talmage
"Dating the Birth of Christ" by Jeffrey Chadwick
The Origins of the Liturgical Year by Thomas J. Talley
Calendar and Chronology by Roger T. Beckwith
"Calculating Christmas" by William Tighe
"Sol Invictus, The Winter Solstice, and the Origins of Christmas" by Steven Hijmans
"Calculating December 25 as the Birth of Jesus in Hippolytus' Canon and Chronicon" by Thomas C. Schmidt
Reversing Hermon by Michael Heiser
Stations of the Sun by Ronald Hutton (though, in response to his dismissal - here and here; also New Testament History by F.F. Bruce)
The specific example of "The Family: A Proclamation to the World" was inspired, in part, by "The Art of Scripture and Scripture as Art" by Boyd J. Petersen and David W. Scott, found in the book The Expanded Canon.
Preface to JD 8 states: "The Journal of Discourses deservedly ranks as one of the standard works of the Church, and every rightminded Saint will certainly welcome with joy every Number as it comes forth from the press as an additional reflector of 'the light that shines from Zion's hill.'"
Brigham Young stated:
- "I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture." (JD 13.95)
- "when they are copied and approved by me they are as good scripture as is couched in this Bible" (JD 13.264)
Michael as Adam is agreed upon by all sides of Mormonism.
Joseph Smith: Sermon in the Grove; JST Rev. 1; Moses 6.8
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 157, 167
A must-read is this Brigham Young sermon: JD 1.50f (And notice to whom he is addressing, where he is addressing them and the obvious lack of words like "my opinion" or any sense of this being a mere hypothesis, policy, or guess.)
Brigham Young even calls him "Yahovah Michael" several times (October 8, 1854 Conference Report, also The Essential Brigham Young, p. 94)
He stated in a "Discourse on Marriage" that: "Some years ago I advanced a doctrine with regard to Adam being our Father and our God. That will be a curse to many of the elders of Israel because of their folly with regard to it...It is one of the most glorious revealments of the economy of heaven, yet the world hold it in derision. Had I revealed the doctrine of the baptism for the dead instead [of] Joseph Smith, there are men around me who would have ridiculed the idea until doomsday, but they are ignorant and stupid, like the dumb ass."
Brigham Young stated that "Joseph said that Adam was our Father and our God." (Journal History, May 14,1876) He also stated that "[I]t is most significant that in the Hebrew language the word for man is Adam, hence in the some-odd 84 passages in the gospels when Jesus referred to himself as the Son of Man, it can be taken quite literally as a claim on Jesus' part that he was the son of Adam." (Teachings of President Brigham Young, 3:327)
The Mysteries of Godliness: A History of Mormon Temple Worship by David John Buerger
Conflict In the Quorum by Gary Bergera
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner
The God of Brigham Young (Jason Wallace)
1h 39m | Apr 20, 2023 - 17. What Shall I do to Inherit Eternal Life?
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the seventeenth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Apr. 17-23) is titled "What Shall I Do to Inherit Eternal Life?", and covers Matthew 18 and Luke 10.
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Correction: Not KSL, but Fox 13.
LDS Sources:
Matthew 18:11-14; Luke 10:25-37 (Seminary Manual)
To Acquire Spiritual Guidance (Richard G. Scott; word "impression/s" used 12x; cites the BOM 2x, D&C 1x - the Bible, never.)
The Light of Christ (Boyd K. Packer)
D&C 93; D&C 131; Gospel Principles
Mar. 13-19 in manual: "Why are principles more effective than lists of rules as we strive to develop spiritual self-reliance?"
Be Ye Therefore Perfect - Eventually (Jeffrey Holland)
The Only True God (Jeffrey Holland)
The Miracle of Forgiveness by Spencer W. Kimball (also here, here, here)
As Clay in the Potter's Hand: The Healing Power of Forgiveness by April Aaron Dodd Bardsley (also here)
Note: Many early Mormon leaders (who were polygamists), taught that Jesus was a polygamist. Indeed, given the story of Mary and Martha in this lesson - it is worth pointing out this quote by early Mormon apostle Orson Pratt: "One thing is certain, that there were several holy women that greatly loved Jesus - such as Mary, and Martha her sister, and Mary Magdalene; and Jesus greatly loved them, and associated with them much; and when He arose from the dead, instead of first showing Himself to His chosen witnesses, the Apostles, He first appeared to these women, or at least to one of them - namely Mary Magdalene. Now, it would be very natural for a husband in the resurrection to appear first to his own dear wives, and afterwards show himself to his other friends. If all the acts Jesus were written, we no doubt should learn that these beloved women were his wives." (The Seer, p.159)
Resources:
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner
An Earnest Plea to LDS (Jason Wallace)
American Gospel: Christ Crucified
What is the Gospel? (Voddie Baucham)
No Place For Truth: Or Whatever Happened to Evangelical Theology? by David F. Wells
Spiritual Gifts: What they Are and Why They Matter by Thomas Schreiner
Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes by Kenneth Bailey
D.A. Carson (here)
Stories with Intent by Klyne Snodgrass
Confessions by St. Augustine
Augustine and the Pelagian Controversy by B.B. Warfield
Unpacking Forgiveness by Chris Brauns
Embodying Forgiveness by L. Gregory Jones
The Hiding Place by Corrie Ten Boom
Core Christianity; Christless Christianity; Rediscovering the Holy Spirit by Michael Horton (also here, here, here)
Inventing the Flat Earth by Jeffrey Burton Russell
Columbus and the Crisis of the West by Robert Royal
American Awakening by Joshua Mitchell
The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self by Carl Trueman
1h 12m | Apr 17, 2023 - (Bonus Ep. 3) Antithesis, Common Grace, and Joseph Smith's "Jesus"
Skyler is flying solo today, based on the essay "Antithesis, Common Grace, and Plato's View of the Soul" by William D. Dennison. The essay can be found in the book In Defense of the Eschaton: Essays in Reformed Apologetics. Bill is a great scholar and always worth reading! (also here)
56m | Apr 13, 2023 - 16. Keys to the Kingdom, Priesthood
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the sixteenth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Apr. 10-16) is titled "Thou Art the Christ", and covers Matthew 15-17 and Mark 7-9.
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Note 1: in the official LDS church e-mail for this Holy Week (2023) literally has as the subject line - "Rise above your challenges". (Beware: "Moralistic Therapeutic Deism")
Note 2: Notice - the official position of the LDS church in the manual is that "this rock" (v. 18) is - "the bedrock of revelation". Yet, they don't even mention (even once) the next part of the same verse (also v. 18) which states that "the gates of hades will not prevail against" the church due to their claims of the Great Apostasy - i.e. the early church completely disappearing (or at least, the authority of the Christian church completely disappearing), only to then be restored to the earth through the prophet, Joseph Smith.
Yet, even on their own terms - if "the rock" (as they interpret it) failed the first time, why should it be a model for the latter-day church? Is it just that their latter-day prophets are just that much more faithful than Peter or Paul? Joseph Smith claimed just this kind of thing when he claimed that: "I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam...Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet..." (HC 6:408; here)
This is to not even mention the fact that the LDS position, even on their own terms, must mean that either Jesus was wrong, or failed to mention that the gates of hades would succeed - but only for 1,500-1,800 years or so (depending on where one would date the apostasy), which would seem to entail Jesus being de facto wrong, anyway. If there was ever a place for Jesus to warn of a great apostasy, and Matthew to document it - this would indeed be the passage.
Note 3: The Canons of the Council of Orange (AD 529) - Canon 3 states: "If anyone says that the grace of God can be conferred as a result of human prayer, but that it is not grace itself which makes us pray to God, he contradicts the prophet Isaiah, or the Apostle who says the same thing, 'I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me' (Rom 10:20, quoting Isa. 65:1)." (here) Note that these doctrinal statements received even official approval from pope Boniface II in 531.
LDS Sources:
Where Are the Keys and Authority of the Priesthood? (Gary Stevensen)
The Holy Temple (Boyd Packer)
Gospel Principles (quoted the 2009 ed.); D&C 20; D&C 107
Matthew 16.13-18; Matthew 16.18-19, 17.1-7 (Seminary Manual)
D&C 110; D&C 130; D&C 131; D&C 132 (original context: polygamy)
Jesus the Christ; The Great Apostasy by James Talmage
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 158, 310, 312, 335-338
New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
Why did Moses, Elias, and Elijah appear in the Kirtland Temple? (Notice the footnotes on Elias)
D&C 6; D&C 8(also here; see footnotes 5,7); D&C 9
Note 3: The Sunday School manual asks: "What do you think Peter or Alma or Oliver Cowdery might have said if someone asked them how they know the gospel is true?" Historian D. Michael Quinn points out the context of D&C 6, 8, and 9 (among other places) is found in divining rods and the magic worldview with indeed, the "rod of aaron" of current wording historically referring to a divining rod. Quinn also notes a time when Oliver Cowdery was asked about the "treasure" (the golden plates) and "[a]s part of his answer, Cowdery wrote that one evidence of the truthfulness of the angel's visit in 1823 was that 'the vision was renewed twice before morning,' a reference to the importance of thrice-repeated dreams in folk magic's treasure-quest." (Mormonism and the Magic World View, pp. 141, 259) Is this truly comparable to the context of Peter's confession?
Note 4: "The Book of Mormon says nothing regarding the restoration of priesthood authority or its importance in the latter-day work of the Lord. The first recorded reference to restorations of their respective priesthoods by John the Baptist and by Peter, James, and John wasn't until 1834, some five years after these events reportedly occurred. The original sixty-five sections of the Doctrine and Covenants published as the Book of Commandments in 1833 make no mention at all of Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthoods, much less their restoration. Section 13, which references 'the priesthood of Aaron,' wasn't recorded until Joseph Smith wrote his history in 1838 (JS-H 1:69). The references to John the Baptist and Peter, James, and John in section 27 of the current Doctrine and Covenants were added in 1835. David Whitmer and William E. McLellin, who at the time were close associates of the Prophet, later alleged that they knew nothing of any priesthood restoration taking place. Their understanding was that Joseph and Oliver's authority to ordain each other, and others, to ministerial office (e.g., elder, priest, teacher) was received by commandment, and not by angelic administration. Initially, these offices had no connection to Aaronic or Melchizedek priesthoods..." ("This Is My Doctrine": The Development of Mormon Theology by Charles Harrell; also here and here)
Power from on High: The Development of Mormon Priesthood by Gregory Prince
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner (also here)
The Mound Builder Myth: Fake History and the Hunt for a "Lost White Race" by Jason Colavito
Temples Made With Hands? ; The Vanishing Lamanites (Jason Wallace)
Approaching the Book of Mormon (Bill McKeever)
The Secret Mormon Meetings of 1922
The Nag Hammadi Scriptures (ed. Marvin Meyer); specifically, The Testimony of Truth. Scholar Birger Pearson, describing one of the key messages of this gnostic text writes: "True Christianity consists in renunciation of the world and in gnosis, i.e. self-knowledge as divine knowledge." The "author's polemics" were "obviously the ecclesiastical Church".
Note 5: The point is not that every particular of Gnosticism has a parallel in Mormonism - but rather, a point about category. In terms of epistemology, religious emphasis and priority, history and eschatology, and even hermeneutics - Mormonism has been in a category much more akin to Gnosticism than to that of Christianity. Anyone who has attended an LDS testimony meeting will immediately see the emphasis on "knowing" truth via immediate spiritual experience. One would think it is fair to build an analysis of a religion based on the very patterns emphasized in/through the rhetoric of the membership to the membership, at least monthly.
Resources:
Christianity and Liberalism; The Person of Jesus; and What is Faith? by J. Gresham Machen
Destroyer of the Gods by Larry Hurtado (also here)
Dominion by Tom Holland
Christless Christianity by Michael Horton (also here, here, here, and here)
The Gospel of Matthew (NICNT); Matthew: Evangelist and Teacher by R.T. France
Matthew (The Expositor's Bible Commentary) by D. A. Carson
The Justification Reader by Thomas Oden
Luther's Theology of the Cross by Alister McGrath
Christianity at the Crossroads; The Question of Canon; Canon Revisited by Michael J. Kruger (also here and here)
The Battle for the Keys by Justin Bass
The Book of Revelation (NIGTC); The Temple and the Church's Mission by G. K. Beale
Temple of Presence by Andrea Robinson
The Infallibility of the Church by George Salmon
Does the NT teach that Peter was the first pope? (Debate, James White)
Christianity and Classical Culture by Jaroslav Pelikan
The Origins of the Liturgical Year by Thomas Talley
Note 6: On the Transfiguration, R.T. France points out: "the reappearance of Moses in this scene further links the two mountain experiences [Exod. 24.9-18 and this one in Matt. 17.1-8], while the echo of Deut. 18.15-19 in v. 5 identifies Jesus as a new Moses is a factor in Matthew's account, though it is important to note that whereas at Sinai Moses was the recipient of revelation, here Jesus is its subject, and it is the disciples rather than Jesus who are in the position of Moses, seeing the heavenly glory and hearing the voice of God..."
"The visual 'transformation' is not so much a physical alteration as an added dimension of glory; it is the same Jesus, but now with an awesome brightness 'like the sun' and 'like light'. Or, one might better say, with the dullness of earthly conditions temporarily stripped away, so that the true nature of God's 'beloved Son' (v. 5) can for once be seen." In footnote 26: "It should also be noted that the account of Moses' face shining relates to his coming down from the mountain, whereas Jesus shone on the mountain but is not said to be visibly different when coming down from it."..."Moses shone for a time with a reflection of the divine glory he had seen; Jesus shone with his own heavenly glory. Moses' radiance was derivative, Jesus' essential." (pp. 644-645, 647)
1h 7m | Apr 10, 2023 - 15. Easter, Fall and Atonement
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the fifteenth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Apr. 3-9) is titled "Easter: O Grave, Where is Thy Victory?"
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Note: in the official LDS church e-mail for this Holy Week (2023) literally has as the subject line - "Rise above your challenges".
LDS Sources:
2 Nephi 2, 2 Ne 25.23, Moroni 10.32, D&C 93 (also here), D&C 29, Moses 1.39; Moses 5.10-11; Articles of Faith; also The Articles of Faith by James E. Talmage, wherein he states: "Adam found himself in a position that made it impossible for him to obey both of the specific commandments given by the Lord...He deliberately and wisely decided to stand by the first and greater commandment."
JST Rom. 4 (Smith changes "justifies the ungodly" to justifies NOT the ungodly"; This is clearly a rejection of Paul's actual teaching, yet through the means of "inspired translation".)
Gospel Principles (manual quoted is 2009 edition)
Jesus Christ Chosen as Savior; also The Constitution: A Heavenly Banner
The Gift of Grace (Dieter Uchtdorf)
The Healing Power of Jesus Christ (Cristina Franco)
Zion and the Spirit of At-one-ment (M. Catherine Thomas)
Christ: The Light that Shines in Darkness (Sharon Eubank)
Good Shepard, Lamb of God (Gerrit Gong)
The Mediator (Boyd Packer)
Personal Search for the Meaning of the Atonement; The First 2,000 Years; A Gospel Trilogy by W. Cleon Skousen
Jesus the Christ by James E. Talmage
A Rational Theology; Evidences and Reconciliations by John A. Widtsoe; he states: "Adam and Eve, in view of the great sacrifices they made to make the Great Plan a reality, are the great hero and heroine of human history." (p. 52)
King Follett Discourse; Sermon in the Grove (Joseph Smith)
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith (ed. Joseph Fielding Smith), pp. 346-348, 369-376
Brigham Young: JD 1.50f; JD 1.83; JD 3.247; JD 4.53-54; JD 4. 219-220; JD 7.2; 9.305; JD 10.110; 14.71f; 17.143; also here
Heber C. Kimball: JD 6.38; JD 6.125-126; JD 7.19-20
J.M. Grant: JD 4.49-51
The Miracle of Forgiveness by Spencer W. Kimball
For the concept of "multiple saviors", see "The Doctrine of the Firstborn and Only Begotten" by Rodney Turner - wherein he states about the theology of Joseph Smith: "These and the Prophet’s earlier remarks are believed by some to infer that our God and his father once sacrificed their lives in a manner similar to the atonement of Jesus Christ...Therefore, in Christ’s atonement and subsequent resurrection, he was repeating ordinances his Father and his father’s father had performed." Later he states that "[s]tatements of Brigham Young indicate that he believed in the concept of multiple saviors."
The Mediation and Atonement by John Taylor (wherein he states: "Why did it need an infinite atonement?...For the simple reason that a stream can never rise higher than its fountain...A man, as a man, could arrive at all the dignity that a man is capable of obtaining or receiving; but it needed a God to raise him to the dignity of a God."
"LDS Teachings are rather unique in depicting Adam and Eve's transgression not only as a wise noble act, but one performed with full cognizance that they were furthering God's purposes in the salvation of humankind. Apostle Dallin H. Oaks praised the 'wisdom and courage [of Adam and Eve] in the great episode called the Fall." ("This is My Doctrine": The Development of Mormon Theology by Charles Harrell, p. 252)
Exploring Mormon Thought: The Problems of Theism and the Love of God by Blake Ostler
Temple and Cosmos by Hugh Nibley (esp. ch. 1)
"...the founders of Utah incorporated in the laws of the Territory provisions for the capital punishment of those who willfully shed the blood of their fellow men. This law, which is now the law of the States, granted unto the condemned murderer the privilege of choosing for himself whether he die by hanging, or whether he be shot, and thus have his blood shed in harmony with the law of God; and thus atone, so far as it is in his power to atone, for the death of his victim. Almost without exception the condemned party chooses the latter death." (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 1.136)
Mormonism and the Magic World View; The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power by D. Michael Quinn
Watchman on the Tower: Ezra Taft Benson and the Making of the Mormon Right by Matthew Harris; Thunder from the Right: Ezra Taft Benson in Mormonism and Politics (ed. Matthew Harris)
Conflict in the Quorum by Gary Bergera
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner
Resources:
The Holiness of God by R.C. Sproul
God in the Whirlwind by David Wells
Confessions by St. Augustine
The Apostolic Preaching of the Cross by Leon Morris
Core Christianity; Christless Christianity by Michael Horton (also here and here)
Redemption Accomplished and Applied by John Murray
American Gospel: Christ Crucified
What is the Gospel? (Voddie Baucham)
Temple Made With Hands? (Jason Wallace)
Another Gospel? by Alisa Childers (also here and here)
Christianity and Liberalism; The Person of Jesus by J. Gresham Machen
Can We Trust the Gospels? by Peter Williams
Unmasking the Pagan Christ by Stanley Porter and Stephen Bedard
Who Moved the Stone? by Frank Morison
The Bedrock of Christianity by Justin Bass (also here, here, here)
"Revelation, Proof, and Presuppositionalism: Acts 17.30-31" by Lane Tipton (found in Revelation and Reason, ed. K. Scott Oliphant)
The Book of Isaiah (vol. 1) by Edward J. Young (also here)
Contemplating God with the Great Tradition: Recovering Trinitarian Classical Theism by Craig Carter (also here and here)
To See and Perceive Not by Craig Evans
The Christ of the Covenants by O. Palmer Robertson; Kingdom Through Covenant by Peter Gentry
Who is God? by Richard Bauckham
American Awakening by Joshua Mitchell
All that is in God by James Dolezal
1h 17m | Apr 3, 2023 - 14. Dealing with Doubt
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the fourteenth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Mar. 27-Apr. 2) covers Matthew 14, Mark 6, and John 5-6 - and is titled "Be Not Afraid".
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Note the difference: The LDS seminary manual asks: "How can focusing on your faith in Jesus Christ and His power and love for you during difficult situations help you?"; Focus on your faith.
Compare that with the simple sentence out of V. Poythress' book (cited below) commenting on the same NT passage: "Faith here was not faith in faith, but faith in Jesus...[and] Faith in Jesus needs to be generated by who Jesus is." (p.185) Or Machen (cited below) stating, similarly: "think not about your faith, but about the Person who is the object of your faith."
LDS Sources:
Lucifer; JST John 6; J. Smith quote in the manual; "self-reliance"; LDS hermeneutics (exegesis or eisegesis?); D&C 131
John 6 (here and here; notice the equation of following Jesus and being a member of the LDS church, or believing Jesus' teachings and questioning the policies and doctrines of the LDS church)
Diagram, from the current year - 2023, for explaining the LDS "virgin birth" is on this page
New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
The Power of the Priesthood (Boyd K. Packer)
The Living Bread (D. Todd Christofferson)
Stay in the Boat and Hold On! (M. Russell Ballard)
To Whom Shall We Go? (M. Russell Ballard)
Brad Wilcox Fireside
The Constitution: A Heavenly Banner (Ezra Taft Benson)
The Great and Abominable Church of the Devil by H. Verlan Andersen
King Follett Discourse (KD) and Sermon in the Grove (Joseph Smith)
E.g., from KD: "'I do the things I saw my Father do before worlds came rolling into existence. I saw my Father work out his kingdom with fear and trembling and I must do the same. [Then] I shall give my kingdom to the Father so that he obtains kingdom rolling upon kingdom,' so that Jesus treads the tracks as he had gone before...What did Jesus Christ do? 'The same thing as I saw the Father do.' Saw the Father do what? 'Work out a kingdom. When I do so, too, I will give [it] to the Father, which will add to his glory. He will take a higher exaltation, and I will take his place and be also exalted."
The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith ed. by Joseph Fielding Smith; The Words of Joseph Smith ed. by Andrew Ehat and Lyndon Cook; Joseph Smith's Commentary on the Bible ed. by Kent Jackson
Brigham Young: JD 1: 46-53 ; JD 4:218; JD 8:206-207; JD 10:5; JD 11:268; JD 18:260
"[I]t is most significant that in the Hebrew language the word for man is Adam, hence in the some-odd 84 passages in the gospels when Jesus referred to himself as the Son of Man, it can be taken quite literally as a claim on Jesus' part that he was the son of Adam." (Teachings of President Brigham Young, 3:327)
Heber C. Kimball: JD 1:355-357; JD 3:108; JD 4:329
The Mormon Hierarchy: Wealth and Corporate Power by D. Michael Quinn (also here)
Resources:
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner (also here)
The Mound Builder Myth: Fake History and the Hunt for a "Lost White Race" by Jason Colavito
The Vanishing Lamanites (Jason Wallace; also here)
Approaching the Book of Mormon (Bill McKeever)
The Secret Mormon Meetings of 1922
Christianity at the Crossroads; The Question of Canon; Canon Revisited by Michael J. Kruger (also here and here)
Christianity and Liberalism; The Person of Jesus; and What is Faith? by J. Gresham Machen
Christless Christianity by Michael Horton (also here and here)
Confessions by St. Augustine
None Greater by Matthew Barrett
James White on John 6
Biblical Words and Their Meaning by Moises Silva
Exegetical Fallacies by D.A. Carson
Jesus and His World by Craig Evans
Jesus and the Eyewitnesses by Richard Bauckham
Evidence for the Bible (Mike Winger)
The Modern Search for the Real Jesus by Robert Strimple
The Gospel Code by Ben Witherington III
Divine Government: God's Kingship in the Gospel of Mark by R.T. France
The Coming of the Kingdom by Herman Ridderbos
The Miracles of Jesus by Vern Poythress
Can You Believe It's True? by John S. Feinberg
Was the Burning in Your Bosom From God? (Jason Wallace)
Christian Apologetics; The Defense of the Faith; Christian Theistic Evidences by Cornelius Van Til
Greg Bahnsen debate (also here, and here)
R.C. Sproul's Blueprint for Thinking (also here)
The Last Superstition; Five Proofs by Ed Feser (also here and here)
Redeeming Philosophy; Logic: A God-centered Approach by Vern Poythress (also here)
The Atheist Illusion (Jason Wallace)
The Territories of Science and Religion; Science Without God? Rethinking the History of Scientific Naturalism; The Fall of Man and the Foundations of Science by Peter Harrison
The Savior of Science; The Origin of Science and the Science of Its Origin by Stanley Jaki
The Victory of Reason by Rodney Stark
The Politically Incorrect Guide to Western Civilization by Anthony Esolen (also here, here and here)
Return of the God Hypothesis by Stephen Meyer
David Hume by James N. Anderson
Jacques Derrida by Christopher Watkin
The Power and Message of the Cross (Alistair Begg)
The disappearance of the "mushy middle"
Roman Catholic Priest as "Alter Christus"
1h 19m | Mar 27, 2023 - 13. Parables
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the thirteenth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Mar. 20-26) covers Matthew 13, Luke 8 and 13 - and is titled "Who Hath Ears, Let Him Hear".
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
LDS Sources:
Individuals and Families; Sunday School
The Parable of the Sower (Dallin Oaks)
The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith (ed. Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr.)
Resources:
Rule of Faith (Irenaeus)
Westminster Shorter Catechism, ch.'s 23-26
Redemption Accomplished and Applied by John Murray
American Gospel (also here)
Jesus and His World by Craig Evans (also here, here and here)
New Testament History by F.F. Bruce
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner
Why Does Jesus Tell Stories? (D. A. Carson)
Terry Johnson sermons on Matthew 13 (here, here, and here)
The Coming of the Kingdom by Herman Ridderbos
Stories with Intent by Klyne Snodgrass
Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes; Poet and Peasant and Through Peasant Eyes by Kenneth Bailey (and here)
The Challenge of Jesus' Parables ed. Richard Longenecker
The Mysterious Parable by Madeleine Boucher
The Evidence For Jesus; The Gospel of Matthew (NICNT); The Gospel of Mark (NIGTC) by R. T. France
Matthew (The Expositor's Bible Commentary) by D. A. Carson (also here, here, here, and here)
Mark 1-8 (AYBC) by Joel Marcus
Paul's Two-Age Construction and Apologetics by William Dennison
Grace and Glory by Geerhadus Vos (also here)
What Is Faith? by J. Gresham Machen (also here)
Who Is God? by Richard Bauckham (also here)
1h 13m | Mar 20, 2023 - 12. "I will give you"....more work!; Self-reliance or Christ-reliance?
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the twelfth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Mar. 13-19) covers Matthew 11-12, and Luke 11 - and is titled "I Will Give You Rest".
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Note 1: Scholar R.T. France notes that animal yokes are to be distinguished from human yokes, "which are worn by a single person" - and argues (though some disagree) that "it is more likely the single human yoke which is in view." Later on, he points out that the "beneficial effects of Jesus' yoke derives from the character of the one who offers it." (pp. 449-450; more below.)
LDS Sources:
Matthew 11:28-30; Mark 2:23-3:6 (Sunday School Manual)
Bear Up Their Burdens With Ease (David Bednar)
The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
A Rational Theology by John A. Widtsoe
Note: D&C 130 was also a source of the expectation among LDS leaders that Jesus would come back in around 1890:
- Prophet/President Wilford Woodruff, alone, predicted British LDS would remain on earth "until the coming of Christ" (Jan. 26, 1840); told the LDS in northern Arizona "There will be no United States in the year 1890" (June 28, 1879); stated (by revelation) that the second coming was "nigh at the door" (Jan. 26, 1880); promised LDS in Manti "that thousands of the children...would not die but would live to see the Saviour come" (Aug. 14, 1881); told LDS in St. George that "there were thousands living in [the] mountains at [that] time that would see the son of God come and many would not taste death" (Mar. 20, 1881) - and similar predictions on Dec. 31, 1885, and then on Feb. 16, 1886. And that is just one of the early apostles/prophets! (As a Thief in the Night by Dan Erickson, pp. 83, 187-88, 190-191, 197)
It should be noted that this is the context for the Manifesto on polygamy - esp. in light of Wilford Woodruff (then senior apostle!) even prophesying in the Manti Temple that "we are not going to stop the practice of plural marriage until the coming of the Son of man." (ibid., p.200, also here)
The Vanishing Lamanites (Jason Wallace)
The Mound Builder Myth: Fake History and the Hunt for a "Lost White Race" by Jason Colavito
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner (esp. ch.'s 5-6,13, and 24)
Temple Made With Hands? (Jason Wallace)
Divinity School Address (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
The American Religion by Harold Bloom
Resources:
Definition of Chalcedon (Sinclair Ferguson)
- The Defense of the Faith (esp. pp.37-39); or Christian Apologetics (esp. pp. 46-51) by Cornelius Van Til
- The Incarnation of God by John Clark and Marcus Johnson (ch. 1)
Saved By Grace Through Faith (White Horse Inn; also here)
What is the Gospel? (Voddie Baucham)
Christianity and Liberalism; The Person of Jesus by J. Gresham Machen
Christless Christianity by Michael Horton (also here and here)
Another Gospel? by Alisa Childers (also here and here)
The Ten Commandments of Progressive Christianity by Michael Kruger
Matthew (The Expositor's Bible Commentary) by D.A. Carson (also here)
Cultish: Debunking the Cosmic Christ of the New Age (Part 1, Part 2)
Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan
The Gospel of Matthew (NICNT) by R.T. France
Kenneth Bailey on Luke 15.11-24
Note 2: A pattern we have consistently noticed is the stating of a sentence with Jesus mentioned - and then the repeating of the thought in a more honest way without Jesus being mentioned (whether consciously or unconsciously). Here are three examples:
- "'Is the load I am carrying producing the spiritual traction that will enable me to press forward with faith in Christ on the straight and narrow path and avoid getting stuck? Is the load I am carrying creating sufficient spiritual traction so I ultimately can return home to Heavenly Father?'" (Elder Bednar)
Notice: it is the load one is carrying that produces the traction - with apparently not even a desire to try to articulate how faith is any part of that process. The second sentence is more honest in that way, since Bednar doesn't even try to shoehorn "faith in Christ" into the middle of it. His teaching more naturally flows without those three words, anyway.
- "The Lord loves effort, and effort brings rewards. We keep practicing. We are always progressing as long as we are striving to follow the Lord. We keep climbing our personal Mount Sinai. As in times past, our journey does indeed take effort, hard work, and study, but our commitment to progress brings eternal rewards..." (President Joy D. Jones)
Notice: it is ultimately a commitment to "progress" which brings the rewards, and in the third sentence - it is more honest in not trying to shoehorn "follow the Lord" into the sentence. The concept truly doesn't even need those three words, anyway.
- "By cleaving to the Lord of hosts, who is mighty to save, and by cleaving to those holy principles of life and power which he has revealed. The more the floods of iniquity surge up against us, the closer let us cling to those principles, for they will bear us off victoriously to exaltation and glory in this world and in the worlds to come. The same principles have exalted out Father and our God to his present state of glory and power, and they will exalt you and me and all who will abide them in the scale of human existence and eternal progression." (President Daniel H. Wells)
Notice: it is by "cleaving" to "those principles" that one is progressing and exalting. The second subsequent sentences are more honest that way, since those principles are the necessary part of the teaching, without trying to shoehorn "cleaving to the Lord of hosts" into the sentence. The concept truly doesn't even need those six words, anyway, let alone that bit about him being "mighty to save". Save from what? It's by applying the principles that one is exalted.
Note 3: This R.T. France comment deserves to be quoted in full: "'You will find rest for your souls' echoes the Hebrew text of Jer. 6.16..., where it is the reward Yahweh offers those who find and walk in the good way. That Jesus now issues the same promise under his own authority says much for the christology underlying this extraordinary pericope. As in the beatitudes of 5.3-10, there is no doubt an eschatological dimension to the rest which Jesus offers, but that does not mean that the offer has no relevance to the problems encountered by disciples in this life, it is for the present as well as for the future, just as the 'sabbath rest which still remains for the people of God' in Heb. 4.1-11 is nonetheless one which its readers are exhorted to enter 'today'." (p. 450)
1h 10m | Mar 13, 2023 - 11. Modern Day Apostles and Prophets?
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the eleventh lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Mar. 6-12) covers Matthew 9-10, Mark 5, and Luke 9 - and is titled "These Twelve Jesus Sent Forth".
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Note 1: There are two prophet-presidents of the LDS church named Joseph Fielding Smith; one (Sr.) is typically called Joseph F. Smith (1838-1918), and the other (Jr.) is typically called Joseph Fielding Smith (1876-1972). They are father-son, and indeed - were Hyrum Smith's son and grandson, respectively. When the Reed Smoot Hearings are mentioned, it is Joseph F. Smith (or Joseph Fielding Smith, Sr.) who is being referred to.
Note 2: Moses warns against false prophets who lead people after other gods (Deut. 13.1-5; 18.20-22); and Paul warns in Galatians that "even if we or an angel from heaven" preach a different gospel, let him/her be anathema, as well as warning against false apostles, men who preach "another Christ" - saying that "even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." (Gal. 1.7, 2 Cor. 11.4,13-14) And of course, the apostle John warns against "false prophets" and commands we "test the spirits". (1John 4.1-3)
Sources:
Seminary Manual (here and here)
Nourishing and Bearing Your Testimony (Gary Stevenson); some of this emphasis, though less emotion-based, came from Joseph Smith himself who taught that: "Salvation cannot come without revelation; it is in vain for anyone to minister without it...Whenever salvation has been administered, it has been by testimony." (TPJS, p. 160)
The Ongoing Restoration (LeGrand Curtis); also here. Does this actually sound like a conservative religion? Don't mistake the mere value for decorum for the conservative mind toward preservation.
D&C 84 (false prophecy about New Jerusalem)
- JD 9.71 (George A. Smith)
- JD 10.344 (George Q. Cannon)
- JD 13. 360,362 (Orson Pratt)
D&C 114 (false prophecy about apostle David W. Patten - who would die Oct. 25, 1838 in the Battle of Crooked River; also see DHC 3.170-175)
D&C 130 (expectation that Jesus would come back in around 1890)
- Prophet/President Wilford Woodruff, alone, predicted British LDS would remain on earth "until the coming of Christ" (Jan. 26, 1840); told the LDS in northern Arizona "There will be no United States in the year 1890" (June 28, 1879); stated (by revelation) that the second coming was "nigh at the door" (Jan. 26, 1880); promised LDS in Manti "that thousands of the children...would not die but would live to see the Saviour come" (Aug. 14, 1881); told LDS in St. George that "there were thousands living in [the] mountains at [that] time that would see the son of God come and many would not taste death" (Mar. 20, 1881) - and similar predictions on Dec. 31, 1885, and then on Feb. 16, 1886. And that is just one of the early apostles/prophets! (As a Thief in the Night by Dan Erickson, pp. 83, 187-88, 190-191, 197)
It should be noted that this is the context for the Manifesto on polygamy - esp. in light of Wilford Woodruff (then senior apostle!) even prophesying in the Manti Temple that "we are not going to stop the practice of plural marriage until the coming of the Son of man." (ibid., p.200, also here)
Joseph Smith's Instructions to the Twelve Apostles (TPJS, pp. 155-163; given on July 2,1839 to those "who were about to depart on their mission to Great Britain".)
The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
Jesus the Christ by James Talmage (ch. 16, under Disciples and Apostles, and footnote 2 - where the reason and precedent is given as to why they are addressed as "Elder so-and-so", and not as "Apostle so-and-so"; also, notice Talmage's claim that it was only "knowledge" that was requisite - when Peter, in the Acts passage Talmage himself cites - actually requires "men who have accompanied us during all the time...beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us." The number 12 was actually fixed to those historical twelve, Judas was replaced not for death but for betrayal/apostasy, and the requirement was one of someone being an historical eyewitness to the entire earthly ministry of Jesus. Talmage himself would not qualify, as he himself should've understood from the citations he himself presents.)
1 Nephi 12.9; compare D&C 20.38-44 and D&C 107.26,33
- Also note the role and authority of the seventy in D&C 107, even stating that they are "equal in authority to that of the Twelve" (v.26); Joseph Smith stated that "[t]he Seventies are to be taken from the quorum of Elders, and are not to be High Priests. They are subject to the direction and dictation of the Twelve, who have the keys of the ministry." (TPJS, p. 112) He also stated that the Council of the Seventy was "ordained to that apostleship." (D.H.C. 2.346)
- The Twelve Apostles were/are to be "acknowledged" as "Prophets, Seers, Revelators, and special witnesses to all the nations of the earth." And they were to preach, not preside over churches. (TPJS, p. 109)
- "President Smith proposed the following question: 'What importance is there attached to the calling of the Twelve Apostles, different from the other callings of the Church?...President Joseph Smith, Jun., gave the following decision: They are the Twelve Apostles, who are called to the office of the Traveling High Council, who are to preside over the churches of the Saints, among the Gentiles, and where there is no presidency established; and they are to travel and preach among the Gentiles, until the Lord shall command them to go to the Jews. They are to hold the keys of this ministry, to unlock the door of the Kingdom of heaven unto all nations, and to preach the Gospel to every creature. This is the power, authority, and virtue of their apostleship." (TPJS, p.74) Smith also warned: "Be careful about sending boys to preach the Gospel to the world; if they go let them be accompanied by some one who is able to guide them..." (TPJS, p. 43)
JD 19.230-237 (George Q. Cannon)
JD 10.214; JD 24.236 (Wilford Woodruff) (also see D&C 46.2)
JD 13.292 (George A. Smith)
President-Prophet Joseph F. Smith, recalling the last remarks by President-Prophet Lorenzo Snow, stated, in part: "He had been thinking of late whether we were justified in keeping at home the Apostles and Seventies the way we were now doing. They were really ministers to the nations of the earth; their duties were clearly marked out by the Lord, and until the Gospel was preached thoroughly to the world he doubted whether the Savior would come, as the preaching of the Gospel to the world is certainly part of the work that has to be done before He does come. The duties of the high priests were also clearly marked out, their duties being to labor at home...
…the President said he very much regretted that it should have become necessary for him to call attention of the Apostles to their plain duty, that they should have sensed the situation themselves without rendering it necessary for him to point it out to them. Upon this particular occasion he said there was no doubt in his mind that the time was near at hand when the Savior would make His appearance, and he trembled at the thought that the Apostles were spending so much of their time in matters that should be attended to by others, while so little comparatively was being done in their own line of calling."
It is also interesting to note that Brigham Young, several times, referred to himself as "an apostle of Joseph Smith". (JD 3.212, JD 5.296, 5.332, JD 9.364) This connects to other views sometimes held by LDS/Mormons.
Mormonism - Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner (esp. ch.'s 2, 7, 11, 13, 17); also here and here.
Conflict in the Quorum by Gary Bergera (esp. ch. 3; noting also the interesting point that even Joseph was somewhat ambiguous on the point - stating "The Twelves, and their authority, which is next to the present Presidency", yet that "also the Twelve are not subject to any other than the First Presidency, viz., 'myself,' said the Prophet, 'Sidney Rigdon, and Frederick G. Williams, who are now my Counselors, and where I am not, there is no First Presidency over the Twelve." So, the Twelve is "next to the First Presidency"...unless Joseph is around. TPJS, pp.104-105, 190)
Mormonism and the Magic World View by D. Michael Quinn (esp. pp.142-144, 167, 223-224)
Power from on High: The Development of the Mormon Priesthood by Gregory A. Prince
The Mormon Jesus by John Turner (esp. pp. 74, 80, 83-88, 110-115,143)
"This Is My Doctrine": The Development of Mormon Theology by Charles Harrell (see esp. pp. 79-80, 89)
An Earnest Plea to LDS (Jason Wallace)
Letters to a Mormon Elder by James White
Simply Put (Barry Cooper)
Article by Nathan Busenitz
Jesus and the Eyewitnesses by Richard Bauckham
Canon Revisited: Establishing the Origins and Authority of the New Testament Canon; The Question of Canon: Challenging the Status Quo in the New Testament Debate by Michael Kruger (also here and here)
John Calvin's Letter to Cardinal Sadoleto
Who Needs the Church? by Terry Johnson
Christianity and Liberalism; The Person of Jesus by J. Gresham Machen
1h 21m | Mar 6, 2023 - 10. Miracles
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the tenth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Feb. 20-26) covers Matthew 8, Mark 2-4, and Luke 7 - and is titled "Thy Faith Hath Saved Thee".
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Correction: Skyler accidentally said "Orson Pratt" when he was actually citing George Q. Cannon (citation below)
LDS Sources:
Joseph Smith: "In knowledge there is power. God has more power than all other beings, because he has greater knowledge; and hence, he knows how to subject all other beings to Him. He has power over all." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.288)
D&C 130; D&C 131; Alma 32; Mormon 9; Moroni 10.24
Miracles; Healing the Sick (Dallin Oaks)
Christ is Risen; Faith in Him Will Move Mountains (Russell Nelson)
Waiting On the Lord; and The Only True God (Jeffrey Holland)
How To Invite Miracles Into Your Life (Michael Dunn)
Gospel Principles (2009), in the chapter on Gifts of the Spirit: “Some have the faith to heal, and others have the faith to be healed. We can all exercise the faith to be healed when we are ill (see D&C 42:48)”
Lectures on Faith (what used to be the doctrine of the Doctrine and Covenants, or D&C; here)
True to the Faith (2004) - under "Faith": "Like all blessings from God, faith is obtained and increased through individual obedience and righteous action. If you desire to enrich your faith to the highest possible degree, you must keep the covenants you have made."
JD 13.33 (Brigham Young)
JD 25.150-151 (George Q. Cannon): "And so, if we understood the law by which Jesus operated when He fed the multitude, it would be as simple to us as the law of electricity is today. If we understood the law by which the sick are healed, and sight restored to the blind...they would be simple to us, as all laws are when they are understood."
John A. Widtsoe, A Rational Theology: As Taught by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints:
In the chapter "The Priesthood of the Church" - under the heading "Priesthood Defined": "The Church is composed of eternal, intelligent beings, moving onward in eternal progression, who have accepted God's plan of salvation. It is God's church. The Lord directs the work of all his children on earth, and he naturally gives attention to the Church composed of his obedient children. Nevertheless, although the Lord is the directing intelligence, he is not here in person, nor are other superior beings sent to take direct charge of the work, for that would be contrary to the law that through his free-agency and by self-effort, man on earth must move onward and upward. Therefore, that the earth-work may be done authoritatively God has delegated to man the necessary authority to carry out the provisions of the Plan. Priesthood is the name given this authority. The body of the Priesthood consists of the men who have received this authority and who may act for God, on earth, in matters pertaining to the Church or themselves." (p. 99)
In the chapter "The Authority of the Priesthood" - under the heading "The Foundation of Authority": "The power or right to command or act is authority. In the beginning, man, conscious and in possession of a will, reached out for truth and gained new knowledge. Gradually, as his intelligence grew, he learned to control natural forces as he met them on his way. Knowledge, properly used, became power; and intelligent knowledge is the only true foundation of authority. The more intelligence a man possesses the more authority he may exercise. Hence, 'the glory of God is intelligence,' and 'intelligence is the pathway up to the gods.' This should be clear to all who exercise authority." (p.111)
In a later chapter, under the heading "Miracles": "Man is of limited power; whatever he cannot understand or duplicate may be called miraculous; and only in that sense can miracles be allowed. The miracles of the Savior were accomplished by superior knowledge. Nothing is unnatural. All that has been done man may do as he increases in power. The conception of an intelligence guiding the destinies of men, makes it possible that, in our behalf, wonderful things are often done, transcending our understanding, but which are yet in full and complete harmony with the laws of nature. For ourselves we must discover all of nature that we can. In time of need, when our own knowledge does not suffice, the Master may give His help. Thus, after man has used his full knowledge and failed, the sick may be healed, the sorrowing comforted, or wealth or poverty may came, provided we draw heavily enough upon the unseen forces about us. Help so obtained is not unnatural. A miracle is simply that which we can not fully understand or repeat and at which we therefore marvel." (pp. 167-168)
Folk-Mormon stuff (mingled with some official or semi-official material): here, here, here, here, and here.
Resources:
Of Saving Faith (LBC 1689, ch. 14)
Reformed Dogmatics by Herman Bavinck
Miracles: A Philosophical Analysis by Robert Sloan Lee
Miracles by C.S. Lewis
The God of Miracles by C. John Collins
The Christian Faith; and Christless Christianity by Michael Horton (also here and here)
The Miracles of Jesus by Vern Poythress
An Earnest Plea to Charismatics (Jason Wallace)
Justin Peters' plea to Kenneth Copeland
The Defense of the Faith by Cornelius Van Til
What is Faith? by J. Gresham Machen: "salvation does not depend upon the strength of our faith, it depends upon Christ. When you want assurance of salvation, think not about your faith, but about the Person who is the object of your faith. Faith is not a force that does something, but it is a channel by which something is received...Such is the blessed end of the man even of little faith. Weak faith will not remove mountains, but there is one thing at least that it will do; it will bring a sinner into peace with God. Our salvation does not depend upon the strength of our faith; saving faith is a channel not a force. If you are once really committed to Christ, then despite your subsequent doubts and fears you are His forever." (pp. 250-251)
Simply Put (Barry Cooper; here, here and here)
None Greater by Matthew Barrett
1h 13m | Feb 27, 2023 - (Bonus Ep. 2) Recap and Four Things
In this episode, Skyler flies solo and goes over a few things that had stood out to him in the curriculum so far (Jan-Feb) - which had not yet made it into the standard episodes.
The table of contents for the Come, Follow Me manual.
Some resources:
Reformed Dogmatics by Geerhardus Vos
Sermon by Pastor Ed Romine on Mark 1
1) Does the Book of Mormon (BOM) teach the Trinity?
No. Joseph Smith went from teaching the heresy of modalism in the BOM to rejecting that very heresy (which he teaches in the BOM!) during the Nauvoo period (as if it was the Trinity) and transitioned into teaching open polytheism. To my knowledge, there is no source in which Joseph Smith communicates an informed understanding of what the Christian doctrine of the Trinity even is - even if only to then reject it. Smith may never have understood the Trinity - but he wasn't shy about teaching that the Trinity is a "monster".
Though not seeming to see that "modalism" is an outright heresy to creedal Christian thought (w/ the unfortunate use of the expression "lay trinitarianism") - the treatment on the issue (as far as the BOM is concerned) by Charles Harrell was helpful, and included the excellent quotation by Dan Vogel. ("This Is My Doctrine": The Development of Mormon Theology, pp. 109-112, 121)
Mosiah 15:2-5, Mosiah 16:15, Alma 11:38-39, Ether 3:14, Ether 4:12
Dan Vogel: "The Book of Mormon therefore violates a major tenet of Trinitarianism by confusing the persons of the Father and Son and by referring to Jesus as the Father."
Joseph Smith - between the 1830 original (first edition) and the 1837 edition changed several passages that originally said "the Eternal Father" to say "the Son of the Eternal Father" - and Mary from "the mother of God" to "mother of the Son of God". (1 Ne 11. 18, 21, 32, 13.40)
Joseph Smith even changed Luke 10:22 to read: "No man knoweth that the Son is the Father, and the Father is the Son, but him to whom the Son will reveal it." (click footnote b)
In the basics of any articulation of orthodox trinitarianism, the non-negotiables are that 1) God is One - and 2) The Father is not the Son or Holy Spirit, The Son is not the Father or the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son. The Nicene Creed honors the non-negotiable of monotheism, as well as the non-negotiable of the distinctions scripture reveals of the Persons of the Triune God.
Joseph Smith's King Follett Discourse and Sermon in the Grove
Heavenly Mother (here, and here)
Keep in mind, even those who debated and disputed the full-deity of Christ in the early Christian church were doing so thinking they were defending monotheism. Not even the early christian heretics believed God could change at all, let alone was once a man and became god by obedience to self-existent eternal laws - and that all men have that potential just as all the gods before them did. At that time, the reason the full-deity of Christ became an issue (at all) was because of his full humanity, and the changes that occurred by virtue of that human nature. Thus, in some ways, the reasoning of the damnable heretics were still closer to orthodoxy than the overt polytheism of Mormonism/LDSism.
The Forgotten Trinity by James White
Core Christianity by Michael Horton
Simply Trinity by Matthew Barrett
None Greater by Matthew Barrett
The Trinitarian Theology of Cornelius Van Til by Lane Tipton
On the Incarnation by Athanasius (also here)
2) Who is Elias? What is the spirit of Elijah? Malachi's Prophecy and John's Fulfillment -
Though in the Bible Elias and Elijah are the same person, with just a difference in the transliteration of the name - Joseph Smith claimed they were different people, and that they (both) appeared to him. In other words, Elias is simply the Greek form of the OT prophet Elijah's Hebrew name. They are the same person. Yet, according to Joseph Smith, they are two different people who both appeared to him.
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 335-338; D&C 110
Why did Moses, Elias, and Elijah appear in the Kirtland Temple? (Notice the footnotes on Elias)
Not only do LDS see the coming of Elijah as actually fulfilled in the Kirtland Temple (though some, including a Mormon prophet outside the LDS church, dispute this) - but they connect the "spirit of Elijah" to temple work (including vicarious rituals for the dead). One irony about this is that John (who is biblically associated with Elijah and the prophecy of Malachi) is born to parents of a priestly lineage (of Aaron) - and yet, one of the LDS distinctives is that the Aaronic priesthood is unable to do sealings, and thus, John would not have qualified in their system.
The Malachi prophecy that the Bible teaches as fulfilled in John the Baptist preparing the way for The Lord features in a key place in Joseph Smith's story (JSH 1. 38-39, D&C 2:1-2); and the spirit of Elijah is described in ways linked to genealogy and temple work, such as: "Elijah would restore the sealing powers so families could be sealed together. He would also inspire people to be concerned about their ancestors and descendants." (here, here also here)
Yet, Jesus says this prophecy of Elijah/Elias (who are one and the same) was fulfilled in John the Baptist. (Matt. 11. 13, 17.12-13). In fact, the prophecy - including the language about turning the hearts of the fathers to the children and vice versa (language of covenant, and covenant-faithfulness, in context) - is literally stated by the angel Gabriel to Zechariah in Luke 1:13-17 to be about the mission of John, specifically.
Moreover, Luke's presentation of John the Baptist fulfilling prophecy in 3.4-5 is changed by Joseph Smith in order to make these verses about events associated with the second coming. (JST Luke 3, D&C 49.23)
Even the utilization of the ministry of Elijah by Jesus in Luke 4 (where Jesus reads from Isaiah 61) is likewise obfuscated in Mormon teaching - since they have historically treated Isaiah 61 as about liberating spirits from spirit prison (also linked to their temple rituals). (here, D&C 128, D&C 138) Harrell states, relative to this, "Of course, in Mormonism it is more than hearing the gospel that delivers spirits from spirit prison." And "In current LDS discourse on salvation for the dead, Isaiah 61.1-2 is interpreted almost exclusively as having reference to the liberation of spirits from spirit prison, or hell, into paradise once the living perform saving ordinances on their behalf." (p.344)
Mormonism and the Magic World View by D. Michael Quinn
Temple Made With Hands? (Jason Wallace)
"Most modern KJV's follow the revision made by Benjamin Blayney in 1769." (There was the original 1611, the 1612, 1613, 1616, 1629, 1638 - and then in 1769 Cambridge Edition of Benjamin Blayley; The King James Only Controversy by James White, pp. 124-126; also see p. 288, and footnote 13 on that page)
On the LDS version of the KJV - "Leaders took steps in the early 1970s to produce their own edition of the KJV that would fill such desires, completing the effort in 1979...[Their] new Bible boasts seven major features distinguishing it from other editions of the KJV..." (Mormons and the Bible by Philip Barlow, pp. 227-228, also here)
God's Secretaries: The Making of the King James Bible by Adam Nicolson
In the Beginning: The Story of the King James Bible and How it Changed a Nation, a Language, and a Culture by Alister McGrath
3) Jacob's "Ladder", the Heavenly Temple, the Son of Man - and the Gospel of Jesus on the Cross
Kingdom Prologue by Meredith Kline
Who Is God? by Richard Bauckham (also here, and here)
The Jewish Gospels by Daniel Boyarin (also here, and here)
From pp. 22-23 in Bauckham, on Matthew and the parallel correspondences between the beginning and end of the gospel, and how they should inform each other:
1- Jesus is a ruler: he is king of the Jews (2:1-6) and has authority over all things in heaven and earth (28.18);
2- Jesus is the Messiah for the nations as well as for the Jews (1.1; 2.2-11), and the nations are to be baptized "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (28.19);
3- Jesus is worshipped (2.2,8,11; 28.17);
4- Jesus is "God with us" (1.23; 28.20)
Bauckham then states: "There [1.23] Jesus was said to be 'God with us'; here [28.20] he says, 'I am with you.' God's presence is equated with Jesus's own presence. He speaks as God, giving the assurance of divine presence with God's people that throughout the story of Israel had been given by God. Indeed, careful readers of Genesis might well be reminded of God's promise to Jacob at Bethel ('Behold, I am with you' Gen. 28.15)"
Not only Gen 28.15 linking with Matt. 28.20 (in light of Gen. 48.15-16, identifying that angel with "The God") - but the promise of Gen 28.14 linking with the commission of Matt. 28.19 as well.
4) Faith as a "power" - and prayer a means of "power"?
Matthew 4:1-11, Part 1 (seminary manual for teachers)
"How can these principles help you access the Savior's power to help you and others resist temptation?"
Faith in Him Will Move Mountains (Russell Nelson)
Speaks of faith as a "conduit of power"; and states "It is our faith that unlocks the power of God in our lives." Later: "Faith always increases our access to godly power." Also connects it with "Ordinances unlock the power of God for your life."
Drawing the Power of Jesus Christ into Our Lives (Russell Nelson)
"Faith that motivates us to action gives us more access to His power. We also increase the Savior's power in our lives when we make sacred covenants and keep those covenants with precision. Our covenants bind us to Him and give us godly power."
Sweet Power of Prayer (Russell Nelson)
Notice the tendency to de-personalize, to abstract, and to assume the self is the central purpose and the goal, rather than God. Man is not for the glory of God; rather, the gods are there for the glory of man - as long as we just work hard enough. And Christ (as maybe one of those gods) is a means of "godly power" - rather than the unique God who is both the means (who is personal), and the end (who is personal).
For Mormonism - Jesus is ultimately an "example of faith", rather than the object of our faith (regardless of how subjectively "strong" that faith feels at any given moment); Jesus reveals abstract principles (even secret restored "truths") - rather than being the personal savior of even the thief on the nearby cross.
Mormonism, at it's core, is not taking a real God (biblically-defined, classically-understood) - and confusing His nature by adding more persons to it than scripture reveals and reason would demand. Rather, it is atheism - with imagined evolving gods and men being mirrors of the immanent-mundane, an MLM ladder of eternal progression, and the material universe being a theatre for the self-improvement of truly-autonomous agents. Thus, faith is a power - and prayer, a means of power....and Christ, a means of power.
Compare this to the words of J. Gresham Machen, a creedal-Christian professor and pastor who was a NT scholar committed to the scriptures and the historic Christian faith, in his great book What is Faith?:
"Bring even modern men to a real sense of sin, and despite all the prejudice against the gospel story, they will be led to cry at least: 'Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.' That cry of the distressed man in Mark was not the cry of perfect faith. But through it the man was saved. So it will be today. Even very imperfect and weak faith is sufficient for salvation; salvation does not depend upon the strength of our faith, it depends upon Christ. When you want assurance of salvation, think not about your faith, but about the Person who is the object of your faith. Faith is not a force that does something, but it is a channel by which something is received. Once let that channel be opened, and salvation comes in never to depart. It is a great mistake to suppose that Christians win salvation because they maintain themselves by their own efforts in an attitude of faith. On the contrary, saving faith means putting one's trust once for all in Christ. He will never desert those who are committed to Him, but will keep them safe both in this world and in that which is to come...
Such is the blessed end of the man even of little faith. Weak faith will not remove mountains, but there is one thing at least that it will do; it will bring a sinner into peace with God. Our salvation does not depend upon the strength of our faith; saving faith is a channel not a force. If you are once really committed to Christ, then despite your subsequent doubts and fears you are His forever." (pp. 250-251)
Institutes of the Christian Religion by John Calvin
When Grace Comes Alive: Living through the Lord's Prayer by Terry Johnson
The Lord's Prayer by Wesley Hill
1h 7m | Feb 23, 2023 - 9. Magic, Manipulating God?, and The Lord's Prayer
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the ninth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Feb. 20-26) covers Matthew 6-7, and is titled "He taught them as one having authority".
We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Note: Russell Nelson taught that: "The Lord prefaced His prayer by first asking His followers to avoid 'vain repetitions' and to pray 'after this manner.' Thus, the Lord’s Prayer serves as a pattern to follow and not as a piece to memorize and recite repetitively. The Master simply wants us to pray for God’s help while we strive constantly to resist evil and live righteously." This is why some LDS will even say that the prayer is a "rote incantation" for Christians.
Yet, Nelson doesn't even anticipate the objection about the many prayers, blessings, and ordinances in LDSism in which words must be repeated precisely, or they are considered invalid (including their sacrament prayer) - and none of which actually come from reliable records about the real Jesus. Well, in this episode we dive in to see who actually promotes the worldview of "vain repetition" and "many words"!
Correction: Skyler said "Parley Pratt" when who he meant was Orson Pratt (3x; roughly 51:49, 1:17:10, 1:17:20)
Note: Moses warns against false prophets who lead people after other gods (Deut. 13.1-5); and Paul warns in Galatians that "even if we or an angel from heaven" preach a different gospel, let him/her be anathema, as well as warning against false apostles, men who preach "another Christ" - saying that "even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." (Gal. 1.7, 2 Cor. 11.4,13-14) And of course, the apostle John warns against "false prophets" and commands we "test the spirits". (1 John 4.1-3)
LDS Sources:
The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
D&C 76 (also here); 93 (also here); 130 (*85 yrs old - 1890);131, 132
D&C 8 (also here; see footnotes 5,7); D&C 82 (also here), D&C 88
2 Nephi 2, Alma 42.13,22,25; Abraham 3, Abraham 5
John A. Widtsoe (1872-1952) - A Rational Theology
James E. Talmage (1862-1933) - Jesus The Christ, The Articles of Faith
Jesus Christ Chosen as Savior (also here)
Achieving a Celestial Marriage (student manual)
Brigham Young: JD 10:5, JD 2:31 (also cited here), JD 7:2, JD 7:57
JD 10:7 (Daniel H. Wells)
God Is The Gardener (Hugh B. Brown)
The Only True God and Jesus Christ Whom He Hath Sent (Holland)
LDS Leaders like Russell Nelson will really emphasize that the LDS should only prayer to "Heavenly Father", and may even use the Lord's Prayer as a prooftext for this. Keep in mind, they see the Father and the Son as two distinct beings and persons - i.e. two distinct gods. (They also will minimize early Christians praying to Christ, even on His word in John 14.14, if it is acknowledged at all.) There is also controversy behind the anxiety that most Christians will not be aware of - and that is Mormons/LDS (some of whom are) praying to "Heavenly Mother" (see here and here). Notice also that Nelson speaks of prayer (like he talks about faith) - as a means of "power" and things similar - to "achieve our divine potential". (here, here, here)
Picture of seer stone (here and here)
Source on the temple, and polygamy.
Also note that the verse about "not casting pearls before swine" is often used by LDS to be secretive (even deceptive at times) with those who don't accept and/or understand the rituals, signs, tokens, veils, apron (and other attire) and key words of their sacred temple rituals (done for themselves, and vicariously for the dead.) Some will just be simply sensitive about talking about such things; others will even "lie for the lord" if they feel to when talking to some. (LDS scholars will sometimes cite gnostic texts as precedent for this. Christians have had a long history of responding to such groups and their worldviews, e.g. Irenaeus of Lyons.)
The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 247: "He showed that the power of the Melchisek P'd was to have the power of an 'endless lives.'"
President Heber C. Kimball stated: "You might as well deny Mormonism and turn away as to oppose the plurality of wives. Let the presidency of this Church, and the twelve apostles, and all the authorities unite and say with one voice that they will oppose that doctrine, and the whole of them would be damned." (JD 5.203)
Hugh Nibley, in Old Testament and Related Studies, p. 49: "The Latter-day Saints are the only Bible-oriented people who have always been taught that things were happening long, long before Adam appeared on the scene. They have never appreciated just how revolutionary that idea is. It does away with creatio ex nihilo..."
- "Salvation" (rather, Exaltation/s) by Knowledge - as taught by Joseph Smith: all quotations are from the Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith (TPJS, edited by Joseph Fielding Smith):
"God has more power than all other beings, because he has greater knowledge." (p. 288); "The principle of knowledge is the principle of salvation...every one that does not obtain knowledge sufficient to be saved will be condemned. The principle of salvation is given us through the knowledge of Jesus Christ." (p.297) "Now for the secret and grand key...knowledge through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is the grand key that unlocks the glories and mysteries of the kingdom of heaven." (p.288) "Knowledge saves a man; and in the world of spirits no man can be exalted but by knowledge...If a man has knowledge, he can be saved." (p. 357) Also: "the keys of the kingdom...consist in the key of knowledge". (D&C 128.14)
- Salvation (rather, exaltation/s) via experience:
Jeffrey Holland, in a conference talk, states - in a context of irony (implying the opposite): "In fact, Lord, be careful to keep me from all the experiences that made thee Divine." (here; note also that in this same talk - he uses the term "omniscience" when speaking of God, showing this is not classically or biblically understood. They mean this quantitatively, not qualitatively.) There is precedent in this view as found in Brigham Young. (JD 8.31)
- Salvation (rather, exaltation/s) by obedience (or, "covenant path"):
Russell Nelson said in general conference: "Your commitment to follow the Savior by making covenants with him and then keeping those covenants will open the door to every spiritual blessing and privilege available to men, women, and children everywhere...we're speaking to you from a temple. The end for which each of us strives is to be endowed with power in a house of the Lord, sealed as families, faithful to covenants made in a temple that qualify us for the greatest gift of God - that of eternal life." (here; also see here) Also: 2 Ne 25:23, Moroni 10:32. It is common to hear LDS (general authorities, scholars, and laity alike) speak of "covenants and rituals necessary for salvation" (or something similar). This it integrally tied to LDS claims of being the only church with the (restored) priesthood keys necessary to properly perform these "covenants" and "rituals". (here) Joseph Smith taught that "to get salvation we must not only do some things, but everything which God has commanded." (TPJS, p. 332)
"Lightning out of heaven" (Terryl Givens)
The Kolob Theorem by Lynn Hilton
The First 2,000 Years by W. Cleon Skousen
The Great and Abominable Church of the Devil by H. Verlan Andersen
Eternal Man by Truman Madsen
Temple and Cosmos by Hugh Nibley (also here)
No Man Knows My History by Fawn Brodie
Mormonism and The Magic World View by D. Michael Quinn
- Fayette Lapham interview with Joseph Smith, Sr. (here) wherein he records "This Joseph Smith, Senior, we soon learned, from his own lips, was a firm believer in witchcraft and other supernatural things; and had brought up his family in the same belief." If a group such as those at the Interpreter would dispute this source, it is interesting to note that they are more than willing to use this same interview if it seems to help a point that they like. (e.g. their publication of an article by Don Bradley). To be clear, we do not think that the context for the BOM is actually ancient, whether among ancient Israel or ancient (white; though some cursed-brown) Native Americans who were supposedly simultaneously practicing the Law of Moses and baptizing in the name of Jesus, who had yet to be born in his humanity. The context, as we see it, was actually Joseph Smith's own time, and the civilization as his own vain imaginings, regardless of his sincerity. (here, here, here, here, here, here)
The Angel and the Sorcerer by Peter Levenda
The Mormon Jesus by John Turner
Conflict in the Quorum by Gary Bergera
The Mormon Hierarchy: Wealth and Corporate Power by D. Michael Quinn (also here)
Standing Apart: Mormon Historical Consciousness and the Concept of Apostasy (edited by Miranda Wilcox and John D. Young)
The Mormon Church On Trial: Transcript of the Reed Smoot Hearings edited by Michael Paulos (also here)
Mormonism - Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner (ch.22,24)
By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus: A New Look at the Joseph Smith Papyri by Charles Larson (also see here, here, here, here, here)
Joseph Smith said: "Paul saw the third heavens, and I more." (TPJS, p. 301) Elder Orson F. Whitney said later: "Both these men [Paul and Joseph Smith] had looked upon the face of Deity. Paul had been 'caught up to the third heaven' [2 Cor 12.2-5], Joseph to the 'seventh heaven' and there 'heard things unlawful to be uttered.' [D&C 76.115] Each was a divinely commissioned preacher of the gospel at the opening of a new dispensation." (Conference Report, October 1912, p. 70; see also his book Elias: An Epic of the Ages)
Compare President Wilford Woodruff and Elder Bruce R. McConkie on the question of eternal progression:
- "If there was a point where man in his progression could not proceed any further, the very idea would throw a gloom over every intelligent and reflecting mind. God himself is increasing and progressing in knowledge, power, and dominion, and will do so, worlds without end. It is just so with us. We are in a probation, which is a school of experience." (Wilford Woodruff, JD 6.120)
- "Now may I suggest the list of heresies. Heresy one: There are those who say that God is progressing in knowledge and is learning new truths. This is false - utterly, totally, and completely. There is not one sliver of truth in it." (Bruce R. McConkie; Seven Deadly Heresies; Notice the condemnation of earlier men of higher church-rank then himself - including but not limited to Presidents/Prophets Brigham Young and Wilford Woodruff.)
The Search For God In Ancient Egypt by Jan Assman
Knowledge for the Afterlife: The Egyptian Amduat - A Quest for Immortality by Theodor Abt and Erik Hornung
Myth and Symbol In Ancient Egypt by R.T. Rundle Clark
The Gnostics by David Brakke (also here)
The Nag Hammadi Scriptures (edited by Marvin Meyer)
Resources:
Christianity and Liberalism by J. Gresham Machen
Matthew: A Mentor Commentary (2 vol.) by Knox Chamblin
When Grace Comes Alive: Living Through the Lord's Prayer by Terry Johnson
Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes by Kenneth Bailey
The Lord's Prayer by Wesley Hill
Who Is God? by Richard Bauckham
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi (or roughly - "the law of what is prayed is the law of what is believed" and vice versa; see here)
Jesus and His World by Craig Evans
An Earnest Plea to Charismatics (Jason Wallace)
Justin Peters' Personal Plea to Kenneth Copeland
Justin Peters (here, here, here; also notice that Jesse Duplantis teaches a somewhat similar view of Isaiah 9 as Brigham Young - JD 10:5 and here)
The Bible Among the Myths by John Oswalt
Christless Christianity by Michael Horton (here and here)
Counterfeit Gods by Timothy Keller
The Trinity: An Introduction by Scott Swain
All That Is In God by James Dolezal (also here, here, here, here)
The Trinitarian Theology of Cornelius Van Til by Lane Tipton
Al Mohler sermon on John 9 (here)
Jesus's Sermon on the Mount and His Confrontation with the World: A Study of Matthew 5-10; The Sermon on the Mount: An Evangelical Exposition of Matthew 5-7 by D. A. Carson
1h 43m | Feb 20, 2023 - 8. Be Perfect and the Beatitudes
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the eighth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Feb. 13-19) covers Matthew 5 and Luke 6 - and is titled "Blessed Are Ye".
If you are in the Provo or Salt Lake City area - we invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
LDS Sources:
Be Ye Therefore Perfect - Eventually (Jeffrey Holland)
The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges
The King Follett Discourse (Joseph Smith)
JD 24:259-270 (John Taylor)
JD 24:271 (George Q. Cannon)
Brigham Young: JD 8:206-207, JD 10:5, JD 18:260
John Taylor: JD 11:164, JD 23:176-177
Wilford Woodruff: JD 6:120
Heber C. Kimball: JD 1:355-357, JD 3:108, JD 4:329
Orson Pratt: JD 1:332-333
Erastus Snow: JD 21:23-25
A Rational Theology by John A. Widtsoe
Elias: An Epic of the Ages by Orson F. Whitney
Resources:
When Grace Transforms by Terry Johnson
Who is God?: Key Moments of Biblical Revelation by Richard Bauckham
Jesus's Sermon on the Mount and His Confrontation with the World: A Study of Matthew 5-10; The Sermon on the Mount: An Evangelical Exposition of Matthew 5-7 by D. A. Carson
The Gospel of Matthew (NICNT); Divine Government: God's Kingship in the Gospel of Mark by R.T. France
God's Glory in Salvation through Judgment: A Biblical Theology by James Hamilton, Jr.
WCF ch. 16 (pure motive, right manner, and God-centered goal)
The Person of Jesus by J. Gresham Machen
Christless Christianity by Michael Horton (here and here)
Voddie Baucham (here and here)
Note: The congresswoman's name was Jeanette Rankin. Her reasoning was more based on a general pacifism, as far as I could tell without looking too deeply. However, to be more clear, the point was more aimed at trying to rescue Jesus' teaching from over-familiarity, rather than a blanket endorsement of pacifism, as such. We are in the already-but-not-yet; and although peace should always be the goal, there may be times when fighting is necessary, akin to Jesus' teaching on divorce in this same passage. I try to avoid the extremes of both an under-realized eschatology and an over-realized eschatology.
Just War Theory: e.g. see Augustine's City of God (and here); see the writings of Francisco de Vitoria - and more generally, How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization by Thomas Woods (esp. ch.'s 7, 11). On the precedent that Augustine is interacting with - see here. A Reformed thinker often overlooked is Johannes Althusius. (here, here and here.) See also American Awakening by Joshua Mitchell.
1h 22m | Feb 13, 2023 - (Bonus Episode 1: Part 2) Pastor Jason Wallace Interview
On this episode, we interview Pastor Jason Wallace - an OPC Pastor who will have been evangelizing in Utah for 25 years, as of May 2023.
If you are in the Provo or Salt Lake City area - we invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
Jason's Youtube Channel is Ancient Paths TV
- Sandra Tanner Playlist; also see the indispensable Mormonism - Shadow or Reality? by Sandra and Jerald Tanner
- An Earnest Plea to Latter-day Saints
- The Vanishing Lamanites
- After Mormonism...Now What?
- After Mormonism...Atheism?
- Interview with Alma Allred
- Interview with Charles Larson (here and here)
- Debate on Homosexuality (See also here)
- LDS, Islam, GayChristian, RomanCatholic
- Hyper-Preterism
- Dispensationalism
Resources:
By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus: A New Look At the Joseph Smith Papyri by Charles Larson (See also here, and here)
Christianity and Liberalism by J. Gresham Machen
The Courage To Be Protestant by David Wells
"Mormons Approaching Orthodoxy" by Richard Mouw
The Last Superstition by Edward Feser
Christian Theistic Evidences by Cornelius Van Til
The Gospel Code by Ben Witherington III
The Apology of Aristides
Destroyer of the gods by Larry Hurtado
Christianity at the Crossroads by Michael Kruger
Temple of Presence by Andrea Robinson (Also here and here)
God Dwells Among Us by Gregory Beale and Mitchell Kim
The Temple and the Church's Mission by Gregory Beale
Sandra Tanner (here and here); also see the indispensable Mormonism - Shadow or Reality? by Sandra and Jerald Tanner
Early Mormonism and the Magic World View by D. Michael Quinn (see especially pp. 226-236)
Symbols in the Wilderness: Early Masonic Survivals in Upstate New York by Joscelyn Godwin
Kolob (Abraham 3)
Temple and Cosmos by Hugh Nibley
1h 35m | Feb 9, 2023 - 7. Marriage and God is spirit
In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the seventh lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Feb. 6-12) covers John ch.'s 2-4 and is titled "Ye Must Be Born Again".
If you are in the Provo or Salt Lake City area - we invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!
LDS Sources:
Achieving a Celestial Marriage (student manual)
Orson Hyde (JD 4.259f)
King Follett Discourse by Joseph Smith
A Rational Theology by John A. Widtsoe
In These Three I Believe (Gordon B. Hinckley)
Brad Wilcox Fireside
Joseph Smith: Behind the Mask (Jason Wallace)
Sandra Tanner (here and here); also see Mormonism: Shadow or Reality?, ch. 16.
Conflict In the Quorum by Gary Bergera includes accounts of Joseph Smith not only sending men on missions and then trying to secretly marry their wives - but also Joseph Smith secretly isolating and then marrying even teenage girls (with the promise of exaltations depending on their submission to him) - and of course, behind Emma's back. (Some of the evidence even includes Smith writing the line: "burn this letter as soon as you read it".) More notes below.
Resources:
Westminster Confession of Faith, ch. 2
Reformed Dogmatics by Herman Bavinck
The Gospel Code by Ben Witherington III
The Gospel According to John by D.A. Carson
God, Marriage, and Family: Rebuilding the Biblical Foundation by Andreas Kostenberger and David W. Jones
7 Myths About Singleness by Sam Allberry
Redeeming Singleness by HyoJu Lee
Institutes of the Christian Religion by John Calvin
On the Trinity by Augustine
The Trinitarian Theology of Cornelius Van Til by Lane Tipton
Temple Made With Hands? (Jason Wallace)
On the development of the LDS temple (here)
Temple of Presence by Andrea Robinson (Also here and here)
God Dwells Among Us by Gregory Beale and Mitchell Kim
The Temple and the Church's Mission by Gregory Beale
Additional Notes/Resources:
It should be noted that there is no evidence even from the so-called "gnostic gospels" that Jesus was married, either (whether in history or even in the imagination of later heretics) - contrary to what many may suppose. And the so-called 'Gospel of Jesus' Wife' has now been proved a forgery. What served as supposed evidence for the position when believed authentic is often ignored as evidence against the position when proved a forgery. (here, here, here, here, here and here)
One example of an early mormon leader teaching not only that Jesus was a polygamist - but that he was crucified for polygamy is: "The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, causing his crucifixion, was evidently based upon polygamy, according to the testimony of the philosophers who rose in that age. A belief in the doctrine of a plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus and his followers. We might almost think they were 'Mormons.'" (Jedediah Griant, JD 1:346 )
Brigham Young also claimed that the Lord was a polygamist. (JD 13:309)
Conflict in the Quorum by Gary Bergera (e.g.):
- During the LDS April general conference in 1875 - apostles Orson Hyde and Orson Pratt (the senior members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles) who were next in line for the church presidency were quietly demoted below John Taylor and Wilford Woodruff. (prologue) "No explanation was offered before or after the voting."(p.2) This power-play by Brigham Young shifted the direction of Mormonism and disproves many current LDS claims to a direct line of priesthood authority back to Smith. Orson Hyde would have replaced Brigham Young as president of the church in 1877 - and would have been followed by Orson Pratt the following year. Instead, it was John Taylor and Wilford Woodruff. (p. 3)
- This book also documents the debates surrounding the re-institution of a First Presidency. A quorum higher than the Quorum of the Twelve was not an obvious thing at the time, as the book documents. (esp. chapter 3, p. 53f)
In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith by Todd Compton (also: here)
- Joseph Smith denied the polygamy, stating publicly in May 1844: "...What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers." (HC 6.411) At the time he made this statement he (secretly) had over 25 plural wives. Now even the LDS church admits that the "exact number of women to whom he was sealed is unknown...Careful estimates put the number between 30 and 40."
Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Bushman (e.g.):
- p.39 "Probably in early 1820"; if you look at footnotes 27, 30, and 34 - he acknowledges the work of Wesley Walters which shows that the revivals of 1824 were likely the background of the "First Vision" account although Smith published in JSH that it was the spring of 1820.
- On footnote 35 of p. 118 (p.588) Bushman states that "Neither Joseph nor any of the other early chroniclers mentioned the event in their histories...Joseph inserted the first reference to Peter, James, and John in a revelation dated August 1830." (And yet, it only gets more problematic the closer one looks. here and here)
Joseph Smith told Alexander Neibaur that he saw Jesus with a light complexion (white skin) and blue eyes (A.N. Journal, May 24,1844). Yes, Jesus is a white man, according to the founding Mormon/LDS prophet. And if the son looks just like the father, then...! This is related to some racial issues in LDS history - but has clearly impacted LDS art to this day, as should be obvious throughout any official sources. Whiteness is also true of Mary in 1 Nephi 11.13-15, who is even claimed by some LDS (e.g.) to actually be from England. Also see Mormonism - Shadow or Reality?, ch. 21.
On Joseph Smith being the Holy Ghost - many have in mind the teachings where Smith said (e.g. KFD) he couldn't tell the congregation who he was. This is then linked with the quote: "Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has." (WPJS, p. 245; also here) This is hinted at in even mormon prophecies of Joseph's part in the last days. Many who believe this will deny it.
Lying For the Lord (also here, here and here)
1h 10m | Feb 6, 2023
