Dr. Franchell Hamilton

She recognized that many of her patients needed a more personalized plan to help them maintain their weight loss goals. By addressing the mental, behavioral, medical, and environmental factors that kept them from a meaningful transformation, her patients began to regain control in these areas.

Ari Gronich: Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of create a new tomorrow I am your host or Ari Gronich and today I have with me Dr. Franchell Hamilton. She is a bariatric surgeon with not only several years of medical and surgical training, but chemistry psychology as well, who's now kind of grown a little tired of the system, as it is, and is looking to help support patients in a more holistic way. So I want I wanted to have her on here because she truly is part of who's making medicine, good for tomorrow, helping them activate their vision for a better world through medicine. So wanted to bring her on Dr. Franchell, thank you so much for coming on. 

Franchell Hamilton: Thank you. Thank you for having me. 

Ari Gronich: Absolutely. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your background? And what made you go from traditional medicine towards some more holistic approach?

Franchell Hamilton: Sure. So I was traditionally trained MD, medicine, went through residency, general surgery, and then I did extra training and bariatric or weight loss surgery, and was in private practice for about 10 years. And it wasn't until I was in private practice, actually, kind of with my own patients doing the things the way I want it. To do that I started realizing the system that I've been trained all this time wasn't really effective. And I have three clinics, right. So we had a pretty large practice. We're in a big Metropolitan Dallas Fort Worth area. And I was probably one of the top geriatric surgeons as far as volume, what I started noticing probably about seven years in actually, that I was doing a lot more revision surgeries, which means they've already had a bariatric surgery, gastric bypass, sleeve, lap band, whatever it is, and they were coming back to get a revision surgery. And I noticed that several years in the practice changed from doing predominantly first time, weight loss, whatever, surgery, medication wellness, I do a lot of things in my clinic that I saw a lot of repeat customers that regained. And I had to ask myself, what am I doing here, like I did all the checkboxes that I was taught to do. All the patients had to go see a nutritionist, they had to go see a psychologist, they had to get their heart checked out. They did all the checkboxes that was required by insurance. And that was required from my training. But patients weren't getting better. They were requiring revisions. And even the ones that were doing just the medical weight loss, they just weren't progressing the way I thought they should be. And I didn't go into medicine just to be busy. Just to be a busy surgeon, I actually wanted to make a difference. I have a heart for people with a lot of medical problems and complicated obesity. And I really wanted them to not just treat their medical problems, but to resolve them. I wanted them to go away. And I felt like in that moment, we I wasn't doing the right thing for them. So I really had to kind of rethink what I was doing revamp and I actually got more education and almost like what we call Eastern medicine or holistic medicine during those years because I was getting burned out with traditional medicine because I felt like I was not helping my patients because they didn't get better. Like I was trained bariatric surgery will not only help them lose weight, but their diabetes and hypertension, cholesterol, all this stuff will resolve. Right. And it did for a brief moment in time. And then the majority of patients were regaining. So that was my turning point for me.

Ari Gronich: Awesome. Thank you so much for that and your dedication in general to wanting to find the best results for your patients. Because we all know that that's not happening so much in the industry right now. And one of the questions I wanted to ask you is what's been your, you know, the pushback from the system or from your colleagues, and so forth? Or what's been the adaptation from them where they've said, Oh, yeah, I've seen this too. And I also want to do what's best. So how can I get on board with what you're doing? So how have you seen on both sides of that?

Franchell Hamilton: So, believe it or not, I felt like and still feel like I'm almost like a sore thumb in my industry because I will tell you, especially in the surgical industry, a lot of us are them. They're not there yet. Like they just they operate the and to be honest, I don't even know if it's their fault, like we were trained as a surgeon, we see a problem, we fix the problem or take out the problem. And then we move on to the next thing before I started my own private practice, I was with a group that was very much like that I was employed. And I immediately got out of that, because I was like, this is definitely not the way I want to practice medicine. And the only way that I felt like I can even come close was by starting my own practice. So that's kind of how I ended up in my own private practice. But I will tell you, in my own private practice, it was a struggle, like, I felt like I got pushback from all sides, I got pushback from the insurance companies, I got pushback from a lot of my own colleagues, when I surgical colleagues, when I brought up the idea that patients have to do other things to help them with their weight, diabetes, when I talked about positive affirmations, or maybe including meditation or yoga, I got pushed back all the way around to the point where I had said, almost like leave those I'm not a part of a lot of those organizations. And from the insurance standpoint, they did not pay for any of the more holistic things that I wanted to do that I saw worked, I saw this work. And I even wrote a letter saying this is medical necessity, I think they need this, this and this. And it was denied left and right. And I often found patients were almost mad at me or my office because we couldn't get this approved. And I'm like insurance companies will pay for their blood pressure medication. But if I want it to treat their blood pressure in another way that I know would actually benefit them by helping them reduce stress, change their environment, whatever the case, I got pushback, I wasn't paid, the insurance company didn't pay. And a lot of my surgical colleagues thought I was actually kind of crazy. So I literally had to shut everything down and almost start over the way I felt like with my own vision, the way I felt like things that should be it almost gave me an aha moment. On the way healthcare was practice, like everything it was it was almost like a brief down moment for me, because I've been in this system for so long. And I didn't even recognize this was happening until my patients weren't progressing. And then if I was in fight with the insurance to get stuff covered, I felt like my voice really wasn't being heard. On the other side, some of my medical colleagues, medical non-surgical, were very open to that idea. So I had to shift almost to the more holistic or integrative community, where they got it, lifestyle medicine, doctors, integrative medicine, functional medicine, meditation therapist, yoga therapist, so I almost shifted into that community. And that's kind of where I felt more welcomed, because in my traditionally trained community, a lot of us, some of us are jumping over, but a lot of us are still with the typical mindset when it comes to how we should treat health care.

Ari Gronich: Right. So, you know, part of this show has always been a lot about the health care industry, because that's where I started. And, you know, I know from my own medical history, having a brain tumor that I was told, I'd be basically gaining weight until I was dead. And I was 342 pounds at one point where I'm just going okay, so I went on to a cleanse, I went on to another cleanse after that I did a 40 day fast, and I did a 10-day water fast. I mean, it was like one after another of just Something's got to give. And but, you know, misdiagnosed and mistreated my entire childhood. It's kind of why I'm in the business to begin with. What I what I saw was that results never seemed to matter. It was procedures and the incentive system is to do more procedures rather than to actually get the good results for the patients. And so, one of this is like the audience here. A lot of them obviously hear me a lot, but to the people that are in what they would say mainstream, I'm considered maybe woo woo because I don't have a doctor degree other than my doctor of metaphysics, right. So, I would be discredited, you know, because of that. So, you're a medical doctor who's in this industry, right? And so how do we get that system to start shifting itself to more of a results-oriented system?

Franchell Hamilton: Yeah, and I'm glad you mentioned that because one of the reasons I got into, particularly obesity medicine was because of the labels like I was labeled as a kid, I didn't have the best childhood. And I had all this kind of like negative labels slapped on me. And so, when I got into medicine, I knew I wanted to be in a field, where people felt like either they were defeated, or they’re, you know what I'm saying they just have this negative connotation. So that's what drew me to obesity medicine in general, because there's all this negativity around it, that most of it is not true, which a lot of it I also felt growing up. And so I want it to be that kind of voice for my patients and be that advocate truly be that advocate. And that's one of the things when I got into medicine, where over time, I felt like I'm not advocating for them, kind of like what you were saying. It's a procedural driven society. I mean, we can talk about what happened in COVID, when elective surgeries got shut down, like there's so much stuff in the hospitals that got shut down, I think the way to change it is to do stuff like what you're already doing, talking to more people getting the word out what me and you are both doing try to promote, I still have my practice, it's completely changed now. But a lot of my work now is to get the word out on the way this healthcare system is having practiced in it for a decade before my eyes were open. And realizing like this is not the way it needs to be practiced. There are actually several communities of physicians now who also believe this, which is helpful, we are partnering with a lot of people like you like yoga therapists, like other people who years ago, they're just like, oh, they don't know what they're talking about. Yes, they do, because they're also seeing results. So it's a matter of like getting the word out there that these other modalities exist. And I think it has to be a combination of patients, patients now are also getting frustrated with their results, they're getting frustrated, for paying these high insurance premiums, and not having anything covered, and not getting the treatments that they feel like are going to resolve their medical problems. So I think it took everybody being frustrated and wanting to make a change in the system it's starting. And I think it's just the combination of us getting the word out joining together and getting a change in this area.

Ari Gronich: Yeah, so one of my questions, then is being that you're in the unique position that you're in, of being in that medical side, and now bridging the gaps. You know, to the western side, my question would be, how do we get some of those organizations that are individual like IFM, FMU, a forum, right? Those are all individual organizations to kind of come together and literally create the next kind of healthcare system. Because, you know, the way I look at it, the battle that we've been having has been about who pays the insurance company bills, right? Whether it's the government paying or whether it's the insurance paying, it's still who's paying, but there's been no talk about how do we make the system more effective so that people are healthier so that it costs us less money in general? And so that's kind of one of the conversations I like to have is, how do we come together in a way that honors and respects all aspects of medicine, minus, of course, the fraud and deceit and all that shit. But that honors the risk and respects all the good that medicine is mixed with all the good that the holistic side has to offer, and come and create a new system that just is outperforming the old system.

Franchell Hamilton: I agree. And that's a loaded question. Because as you and I both know, that's going to take a lot. That's going to take a lot of manpower. On all ends, physicians, support staff like you other health care workers like you and patients to kind of come in and say we want this change, I can tell you, I have stayed one of the reasons I've stayed with my foot in medicine, like clinical practice is so I can help dictate and start being the change. There's so many other opportunities, I've had to completely leave medicine and kind of and maybe at some point, I will do that. But right now, I am trying to bridge the gap. There are several people that are trying to bridge the gap with their patients and these organizations. So I sit on a lot of committees on a lot of these organizations that do not see it this way. yet. One of the reasons I started They'll stay on these committees. So I can almost be a voice inside that committee to help create the change that I think is needed. I'm, I still sit on my Council Committee for American College of Surgeons and so I'm over all of North Texas as a bariatric surgeon, I represent that one of the reasons I still stay there is so I can voice some of the changes that need to be made, I think it's going to take people higher up honestly, in these organizations to say something, and then to start kind of weaving, which we already had, we met each other. I've met several people who are on the same playing field, but I would have never met until I kind of started this whole thing. I think there needs to be a movement. That's what I'm talking about on my podcast and shows. That's what you're talking about. There's a lot a lot of us that are talking about it and we need to all come together, believe it or not, we are making some headwing. CMS which is Medicare, Medicaid, they the government insurance is considering at least looking at functional and integrative medicine, as far as coverage, which is huge. I know, it doesn't seem like a lot. But that is a huge thing that in general, we've been trying to push just like coverage for bariatric surgery, right? Like there's a lot of issues with that. There's a lot of these like grass roots going on in these organizations. I'm part of AMA, which is an American Medical Association. We're trying to in these organizations, I know there are several of them. And yes, we need to come together more, but we're trying to get stuff passed. So integrative and functional medicine has gotten a bill to Congress saying this is what needs to happen in order to help treat patients better, they've actually looked at it and are considering approving it. Once Medicare and Medicaid approves the coverage of functional and integrative medicine, which is currently not approved, that will be a ripple effect, and all other insurances will follow. So I think it's steps like that that's like big, it's hard for like the lay person to see it who's not working. And it takes years, it takes years. Like it took about six years for even that to get to Congress, you know what I'm saying? It just takes a long time for this stuff to happen.

Ari Gronich: So because it takes a long time, when it's us industry, people that are not lobbyists? What is the thing that we can do with our patients? Like what are what are the things that patients can do to accelerate it within their groups? Because I'll tell you, I look at all of the Facebook groups and you know, people, some complaining and some promoting and some other things, but all of them is like it's disconnected. And it's what I would consider to be frantic, complaining or gathering to complain instead of collaborating to succeed. So, my question is both for the patients and the physicians who are starting to work with their holistic counterparts, right? How can they combine together to create more power in that movement.

Franchell Hamilton:  So I think in kind of what we're doing, and this has also already started, where we're forming networks, right, and networks among our area, or region. And I think from a patient standpoint, they need to complain to their insurance company for coverage, which a lot of my patients when I was accepting insurance and alert or accept it, but when I was accepting insurance, I was like, you need to talk to your insurance and ask to get a coverage, believe it or not, when you're an insurance physician or practitioner of any sort, there are several people that's not a physician that takes insurance, there's only so much that we can do, believe it or not, insurance don't want to pay us but as the patient and I'm a patient too, you're paying into the system. So the patient has more power when it comes to their insurance than the physician or the provider does. So those complaints need to be directed towards their insurance companies demanding coverage or demand to leave. There's so many other options out there. If everybody pulled away from the insurance companies and just decided to that that's not that's not working from them, they have to make changes, right. This is what happened and financial infant structures. You almost like wherever the money is going. So in my community, we've formed networks with everybody massage therapist, physical therapist, nutritionist where you can either do like a subscription, which a lot of people are doing now, and you pay into this network, a subscription and it will cover whatever visits almost like an insurance But you're cutting out the insurance, you're cutting out the middleman, this is getting provided directly to whatever group that you're with, or you because a lot of us physicians, we just want to treat the patient, most providers just want to treat the patient. And so we will make something that's reasonable, and that they can afford a lot. And I can speak on physicians, and a lot of these holistic practices are no longer or don't accept insurance, and they're doing their own models, but we have to network and collaborate. Because if I can't offer something, I need to be able to refer that patient to other services that are in our cash pay, holistic integrative network that they can go see. And a lot of patients, believe it or not, are leaving insurance companies and only getting what they need in the event of traumatic or event. Yeah, exactly. And they're paying the doctors and the providers that are providing care for a lot cheaper than paying these high premiums in these high deductibles. So I think that's what needs to be done all over. And that movement has already started.

Ari Gronich: That's awesome to hear. I'm so glad to hear that that is going on. And we'll have to make sure that people know how to connect into networks like that, when they listen to the show, so we'll have links and stuff for that as well. So here is a, an off the cuff. Right? So let's say you're not taking insurance, right? I'm taking insurance, you're not taking insurance, you're getting results, I'm not getting results. Alright, so we're just taking a scenario that I think happens quite a lot. So we're going in for weight loss, counseling, weight loss care, right? How much is the difference in cost for say, bariatric surgery compared to a functional medicine approach? And, you know, an average cost, right? So a bariatric surgery costs, how much and then the average approach for functional medicine costs How much?

Franchell Hamilton: Well, in the other question, I guess we have to ask is the results, right? So okay. So the first part, so average bariatric surgery probably costs about 20 grand between the hospital and the doctor. And usually the doctor’s offices provide all the pre care and a lot of the post care. So about $20,000 functional medicine, typical subscription cost, cost about 100 and 100 to 150 a month. And so let's say 13,000, right? Are there I'm sorry, yeah, sorry, 13 100 a month. So 1300 for the year versus $20,000, for bariatric surgery. So that's a huge cost difference.

Ari Gronich: Okay, so now we're going to go to vote who results on both sides. Since you were talking earlier about how many people come back, let's just do that how many people come back after bariatric surgery versus how many people do average, see come back, meeting more care or knowledge or whatever, after going through a functional medicine program.

Franchell Hamilton: So with the functional medicine program, it's kind of ongoing, which it's a lot of support. And so people may not come back because they have recurrence of their disease, it's more just maintenance, right? So that's a little so we're not adding money into the system, because we're not treating anything per se anymore. We're just maintenance, right? So that taking into account, my bariatric patient population. For me, I felt like it was at least 50% that needed a revision, which is high considering the cost of a bariatric surgery. So I felt like there was a piece missing there.

Ari Gronich: So, is the cost of the revision about the same as the cost of the original?

Franchell Hamilton: No, it's significantly higher, significantly higher, because it's more complicated. Anytime you have to go and this is not this is all surgery. Anytime you have to do a revision, your complications increase dramatically. And so the length of stay in the hospital increases dramatically. Like your postdoc, potential complications are higher, like everything is more expensive in a revision surgery.

Ari Gronich: Okay. Cost of ongoing care for functional medicine since there really isn't any revisions. But what's the ongoing cost? Oh, it's just the 13. 

Franchell Hamilton: Yes, your monthly fee. Yeah. 

Ari Gronich: So on top of the monthly fee, for instance, whatever that is, so they're, you know, they're all programs are different costs, right. So then there's obviously supplement costs, food cost, so people are freaking out. Let's gonna cost me so much money to get healthy. So let's talk about those costs a little bit, how they go high and how they go low, comparatively to what other people are doing. So in bariatric surgery, typically there's medicine medications that they're taking, which have a cost, right? What's the average cost of the medications of maintenance for somebody who's going through the surgical route.

Franchell Hamilton: So bariatric surgery, you have to have supplements, they all have to have supplements. And there are specific variadic supplements that most bariatric surgeons or nutritionist, or baria-nutritions provide in the office because that's what the ASMBS, the people kind of write the rules say they need this supplement. And so there's an approval process. And so those supplements are usually about $60 a month for your basic supplements, let alone if you actually have some deficiencies, and then you start adding on and those supplements can range up to 60 to $100 additional a month, not to mention before surgery, there's protein drinks and supplements that you have to do. And after surgery for the first six to eight weeks, there's also protein supplements that people have to stay on to make sure they're getting all the protein that they need. And let me also mention to stay healthy. There are certain foods the bariatric patients have to eat, they eat less, but almost the same healthy foods to stay healthy that people in a maintenance program will need. So that's the bariatric cost, functional medicine cost. They don't have some way, if you don't have bariatric surgery, you don't necessarily have some of the deficiencies that bariatric patients get. So you don't necessarily need all of the supplements. Some people do, right? But very extra patients require us because of the way we rerouted you, you are 100% going to have these deficiencies because of the way the surgery was made. Other functional medicine patients that didn't have the surgery may or may not have those deficiencies, but everybody should be on a basic supplemental regimen that could cost anywhere from 40 to $60 a month. 

Ari Gronich: So what's the cost of obesity without any intervention at all? Do you know about those what those numbers are the statistics for those numbers.

Franchell Hamilton: So because obesity, so let me tell you what obesity cost big picture, because they've looked at different sectors. So obesity caused, apparently 40% of less workdays, obesity in general, because you're obese, you have all of these other chronic problems that come about that people don't even realize that they will get you're sicker. So COVID, for example. I mean, there's so many studies showing obesity alone is reason why there was high death and high hospitalizations with a ventilator. Okay, so outside of that, though, people your immune system is down, you have more missed workdays, or missed work days, which is costing the economy money, you have a higher propensity for diabetes, and all of those medications, hypertension, high cholesterol, depression, anxiety, we don't even care enough to get into the emotional and mental side of what obesity can cause. So overall, they were in this was probably several years ago, when that I saw these numbers, the cost of obesity was taking up about 56% of our total healthcare, that's just for obesity, because of all of the other sub-quella that it has with obesity and this, I use that number because that's the number I used back in the day to try to get bariatric surgery covered because it wasn't covered as readily. It's better, but we still have coverage issues. 

Ari Gronich: Alright, so, I want to do the numbers because I want people to kind of grasp the gravity, not just of the obesity, just of the cost of bad results, right? You think that it's costing you a lot to go into a physician, a doctor who actually gets the job done? Who is not taking maybe insurance, but is really about caring for you and your patients? Right? And then you go, but I can't afford you. I have to go to where the insurances and then you have to go to 15 people, you have streamlet high expenses. I find it fascinating that somebody can go in for an MRI without insurance and it costs $200 and they go in with insurance and it costs 1600 or 2000, or however much they decide to charge because the whole idea of insurance at the very beginning is we all pay into it. Cool, so that they negotiate better rates for us, right so that they are taking care of those kinds of things. And I think that people are in such a cognitive dissonance about what is really happening in the world around them like, well, they wouldn't, you know, choose money over, over my health, right? They wouldn't allow the system of medicine to be about that. And so there's this disbelief, even though we see after we see after we see the evidence that something is shifty is going on, right.

Franchell Hamilton: Yeah, yeah, I agree. And just to kind of piggyback on that, a lot of people think that they're there, it's almost like insurance for them as a security blanket of some sort, when it's actually not doing anything for you. I mean, I get it, I was in that boat too, for a while, like, Oh, we have to have just in case just in case, in, we're pouring 1000s of dollars a month into insurance. And over time, it's changed right now, everybody not only has their high monthly premiums, but they have this huge deductible that they have to pay out. So they're paying high monthly premiums. And then when you come see me or whatever, Doctor, you owe me your deductible, so your insurance is not even covering that they don't kick in until after your deductible is met. Even when I had insurance, I got rid of it myself. You're right, that same scenario happened to me, I needed an MRI, because of my neck. And so I was gonna go and pay insurance. And I had to pay my deductible. They're like, Oh, you need to pay a $2500 deductible. And I was like, pin. And then my therapist, my chiropractor, he ordered it. He was like, you know, I just I know a cash place, go pay cash, and don't tell him you have insurance. And I went there those 350. And I'm like, why when I had insurance, I was gonna have to pay $2500 out of pocket with insurance. I go to another place and say no, I don't have insurance. And I paid 350. Like, what is wrong with this picture, we're actually paying more into the system with insurance than without insurance the same way with physicians, my rate to see me is the same rate that insurance charged for a deductible plan. And so they're not only paying me that, that they're paying, they're also paying their monthly fee, you know, so it's, it's crazy.

Ari Gronich: Yeah, it's, it's intriguing to me, but it also intrigues me to the level at which I guess our industry just doesn't even pay attention or explain it or talk about it. Because to me, it's so obvious, right? If the only thing you did, as a scientist, as a medical scientist was look at the numbers of diabetes, of rates of autism, of rates of obesity, of rates of heart disease, right? You would say, Well, shit, we have all this new technology. But the results that we're getting are like 10 times worse than we were getting before we had all this technology. So you'd think that there'd be some cognitive awareness of this? So my question is, how do we bring back the cognitive awareness to people in their own profession? I mean, in their own world, so that it's not incumbent on the patients alone, to have to fight for their right to feel good?

Franchell Hamilton: Yeah, yeah, I agree. And that was the problem. And I was a part of this, where I was completely clueless. I was completely clueless, because they didn't teach this to me in school. And I don't know if they taught it at the school you went to but believe it or not, in most healthcare, professional fools, they're not talking about this. And why would they talk about this, because, you know, this could potentially bring down insurance companies or whatever, I was just looking while you were talking, the gross domestic product for our first quarter was $22 trillion. And that's for to 2020. It has gone up, but it's gone up every year. And this was my kind of aha moment. So when I was giving you those numbers, this was probably back in 2018, or 19, when it was a little bit less, but it was still in the trillions. And so if you think 56% of OB takes 56% of that obesity takes up this $18 trillion number, how much we are spending because of obesity, and we're not doing anything. I mean, that was kind of my big thing. Like this person just paid $20,000 for the bariatric surgery, and they're back in here two years later, and now it's going to cost them 35 you know, because they have to have an extra hospital stay because now it's more complicated and the insurance are willing to dish this out. But when I requested that they see counseling or therapy or food addicts? You know, they denied that like, this does not make sense to me why as a country are we willing to spend money on stuff that may only band aid the problem, but we're not willing to spend money on things that will actually resolve the problem? I can't answer that, because I was blind to it also, because I didn't see it. And I don't even know what kind of the only reason why it was brought is because I want it better for my patients. Not everybody is like that some people are just happy going to work collecting, they're checking going home. And if that's the mentality, that they we will always have that system where our head is kind of down. And our blinders are on, because they're going to work the collecting their check, regardless of the healthcare profession. And they're not seeing this bigger picture. I think what helped me is because I was in private practice, I wasn't employed. But a lot of this, if you're in a hospital setting, or an employed setting, honestly, in the defensive providers, it's hard to see, because you have a patient who comes in with diabetes, you have 30 minutes to talk about their nutrition, prescribe some type of medication, and your hospital, or your clinic has already scheduled the next patient for you. So they've got to go. And that's all you see. And so awareness has to come from the people that are doing this, but only if they want to, like me and you talking about it can only help hopefully that helps people kind of think twice, especially providers that have been there in those employees conditions where their employer doesn't see this, they may not see this, you know,

Ari Gronich: Right, I just, you know, I look back on this last year, and I go, what an amazing amount of opportunity got lost, because we weren't allowed to talk about building your immune system versus treating a disease, right, we weren't allowed to talk about the ways in which we develop a system that is immune to these kinds of things, because we're so healthy, and our healthy immune system takes care of this stuff like, Good, right. And so I'd like what a missed opportunity we had this last year. The positive, I think is that we've gotten the opportunity a little bit to recognize and to start building the numbers for what you were saying a little earlier, which is look at all the medical intervention that did not happen this year. And the deaths by medicine toll, how much that's dropped. And we'll we might if somebody is actually interested in doing this be able to figure out what really is the cost and the toll death toll wise and cost toll of medical intervention that's unnecessary. what's the overages of what we're doing that we should not be doing? And, and so I'm looking forward to seeing if that gets any play in the community, you know?

Franchell Hamilton: Yeah, and I think it will. So I and that's one of the things like in my practice, I never did research. And I'm getting physicians, because I'm like, we need the data, the only way that we're going to be able to beat this thing is the data like in bariatric surgery, which is where I was for so many years, we have data on how bariatric surgery causes a decrease in diabetes, a decrease in hypertension, and how this is saving money, how much obesity is costing America and how we treat this right. So we have those numbers. But then that's it, it drops off, it doesn't talk about or show the aftermath, right? We hadn't even and I think part of it is because people don't want to, we did so much to kind of get it approved. And even my own community is not showing the data afterwards. Because once they get the surgery, that's it. There's no prevention, there's no once their diabetes has resolved. And that's what we're missing the boat. And part of that, believe it or not, is insurance, you're healthy, wanna pay for your one wellness visit a year in your lab work, and that's it. And then patients are left having to what do I do now as they're like medical problems and everything else is slowly increasing. We need data on what prevention does in the big picture. But what we do have data on and this is kind of what I'm trying to educate other physicians about is that every medical disease has increased since the beginning of time since 2000. Diabetes has increased, hypertension and cardiovascular disease has increased obesity has increased, yet, we're supposed to have some of the best health care in America. And we have all these technologies and all these great meds that have come out right these $1,000 meds that are treating epilepsy in cancer and heart disease. But yet the incidence is not going down. The incidence is not going down people because we're not doing prevention, because the focus is not on prevention. This is why the incidence is not going down. And I don't understand why anybody else is not seeing this. They do offer grants, which mean one of the companies that I'm working with digital health company, to increase access to kind of ask these questions, I will tell you what the pandemic I think, like you were alluding to help with open eyes, we had way more deaths than we should have, because of the pandemic because people were not healthy. And if we have the best expensive meds that everybody's paying for in the best health care of all these technologies, why do we have so many deaths, we have more deaths than some other underserved countries. So what, like what's going on there? So we need to start focusing on prevention. And I think, as the whole people are starting to see that now, I've seen more of a shift, kind of towards the end of this pandemic than I've seen before. So I think all of us like you like me, all of us who are like advocates of prevention, now is our time to try to make changes, policy changes come together, educate our other so I'm educating as many physicians as I can I host webinars, you know, conferences, I'm speaking at conferences, in order to cut these to get the word out conferences where it normally wasn't spoken about before. I think at this point, we as a medical society, all providers have to look at this and look at what happened this past year, and start scratching our head like something is not right. It shouldn't make everybody open their eyes this past year. 

Ari Gronich: Yeah, absolutely, I completely agree. Here's goes to the system, but it goes towards the fear side. So, yes, there are a lot of physicians like you who were blinded for a lot of years. But there's also a lot of physicians who have felt threatened. Right. So I'll give two examples. One is just there's approximately 70 plus holistic health practitioners who have been found, murdered, suicide, whatever, in like a very short period of time, it was like in a three year period of time, there was like 70, some odd, holistic health practitioners, many of them working on vaccine stuff, like the research and in vaccines, kind of interesting, because that ended right before COVID. And I didn't actually put that together until just now, but it's just a thing. So that and then the amount of like, we had a gynecologist in Orlando, who I met at a functional medicine training. And she had gotten, basically, her business completely shut down, she had gotten investigated by the AMA, she had gotten shut down by insurance companies, because what they consider to be the standard of care is if you're going into a gynecologist, you have four sessions that you could go in, where you either have to be prescribed a medicine or a procedure, if one of those two things is not done in four sessions, all of a sudden, you're not practicing in the standard of care. And she did that with a lot of her patients, because she was actually treating them holistically for whatever the ailments were that they were having. And so she had to, I mean, lose her entire practice. And so the fear factor, the only way, in my opinion, to alleviate fear is to become bigger than the bully. And the only way to become bigger than the bully is to get loud. And to bring a crowd. That's kind of where I'm looking at what you're wanting to do what I'm wanting to do a little bit. And so I want to talk to you about that. What do you say to those doctors who are doing frontier medicine, that are on the fringes of, of the new frontier? Really, it's frontier medicine for reason. They're doing the things that are getting the results that are currently not in the standard of care,they're afraid. What do you what do we tell them?

Franchell Hamilton: So, you know, it's really unfortunate that this is happening. And that has happened to me, I've been under investigation, because I didn't want to practice the way other people were practicing. So I've been through it. And I think one of the things is you have to, from a physician standpoint, data will help you a provider standpoint. So if you can show data that it's working, that will help you in a courtroom, for example, the other thing is, in every provider knows this a consent and making sure your patients understand. So I've gotten sued, and I've gotten investigated, and I've gotten dissolved, like dismissed because I have consents, and I tell them, this is the way we're practicing. And honestly, at this point, I even tell them, if you don't like this practice, you know, there's other people that are practicing other ways. But this is the way we're going to do it in order to get you to your surgery, or in order to get you to your weight loss goal, because this is what I found has worked. And it's not your typical medicine. And so I make sure they all my patients sign a consent. And I have data. So I didn't put it in a research form. But my EMR tracks, right, you can track the bloodwork, you can track the weight, you can track there's so many different ways to track it without doing an official study. And so I didn't do a study. And that's why I'm encouraging my doctors that I kind of talked to, let's all put data together that shows and then publish it. We need to put data together and we need to publish it. And believe it or not, this is the way medicine used to be practiced. You experimented, you experimented. And that's how breakthroughs came. And now stuff is so regulated in the United States. I go to these international conferences, and some of these European countries are so far ahead of us, because it needs to be regulated. Let me not like take that away. But I mean, come on, you know, how do you think polio was discovered the vaccine for polio? I mean, some of these things were through experiments, and as long as you explain to the patient whoever you're treating, this is the way I'm going to do things, you have data showing their cholesterol numbers are going down. Because this I'm treating with tumeric. And I don't want to treat them with a static drug, you know what I'm saying. But I'm still getting the same results as your stat and drug by doing the things that I've, they do yoga twice a week, meditate every day for 10 minutes, and I'm giving them tumeric. And this is their cholesterol numbers, right? That will hold up in any investigation or suit as long as you can keep that data. So that's what I would tell to the doctors who are going through this, or providers, because I've been through it and I had that I had my data, I had consent. And I'm not giving up. If this is something that you're passionate about, then what you need to do is start bringing people in with you grabbing people that you know, that's also practicing this because as he stated, you stated, I mean, we're bigger in numbers. So now, a lot of my colleagues are no longer unfortunately, my surgical colleagues, but they're my colleagues that are practicing very similar to what I do. So guess what, when one of them gets investigated, they're gonna call me or their lawyer can call me as a witness or one of us, and I will write letters on their behalf, I will witness to them on behalf, we are much stronger, like you said, and numbers. That's the only way. I don't even know if we can do it with money, because I know this is completely off the topic, but that whole COVID vaccine thing. There was definitely money involved. I don't Bill Gates, I mean, all of a sudden, you know that some of that stuff seemed a little questionable, to be honest. Um, I there was money involved. We don't A lot of us don't have Bill Gates money, you know what I'm saying? So the only way we can kind of start defeating This is by speaking up, don't feel like don't let investigators, lawyers states, like, close your voice down. Because if you're doing things the right way, they can't do it. I mean, it's frustrating. And it's depressing during the time because I went through it. But if you're doing things the right way, you're getting your consents, you're slogging your data, they can't shut you down. I mean, they can't.

Ari Gronich: Yeah, I've never been investigated. But I'm, I'm not a physician. 

Franchell Hamilton: It's higher among us because, you know, physicians, everybody's like, oh..

Ari Gronich: There's more scrutiny, which is part of why I want to talk to that side of medicine, because, you know, I watch Zeedog MD, for instance. And he talks a lot about the moral dilemma that physicians are having, because they're being told to practice in a way that is not equivalent to the reason why they got into business, right, why they got into the industry. And I don't remember the exact term that he calls it the moral, something moral injury, it's moral injury. And knowing that he feels that way, he and I disagree, obviously, on a lot of the vaccine things and what he considers science and what I consider to be clinical evidence are very different. But I like the fact that he's willing to have the conversations and so like, I would want to have a conversation with him. And you. And then maybe Dave Asprey, you know, who knows, like somebody who's completely on the other side of the pie, and has his own science to back up what he's saying. And I'd love to have these kinds of discussions regularly with it, like within view of the world, right, so that people can see the differences, how much more similar they really are than differences, and then how we get to a kind of a consensus for practicing medicine in a way that actually gets the results that we want. Because really, that's at the end of the day, the only thing that matters, right?

Franchell Hamilton: Yeah, I agree. And, and to talk about his moral injury, I mean, everybody talks about a kind of in the medical field, burnout, right? Like burnout is all of a sudden, significantly higher than perhaps 20, 30 years ago, you didn't really hear about it that much. I never heard about burnout in med school, like you know, or other people getting burned out. And that is why burnout is so high, because there's this mismatch on what a lot of providers or healthcare workers want to do. And what's happening even in nurses and you've probably talked to some nurses too, like I have worked with so many nurses who are just burnt out. And the reason they're burned out, most nurses are hospital employed, or for some type of facility employed, and that's not what they want it to do. That's not the way they wanted to practice. They truly want to help people. You know what I'm saying? And then you start to see like, we're not getting the results. We're not doing what I wanted to do, and that's where the burnout come, I got burned out because there was this mismatch in what I want it to do and what was happening. And boy did it hit hard. And so that's the reason so many healthcare workers are getting burned out is because we all live in a system where they're saying healthcare is this, and a lot of us are waking up and realizing, but that's not helping, you know. And so if there needs to be a revolution in healthcare, and I'll be the first to talk to whoever will hear me talk about this revolution, because we're not getting the job done. Our medical problems are increasing,and we're not doing anything about them.

Ari Gronich: And so for me, I feel like right now we're on a 19, or like an 1890s 1800, steam train. Right, and we're going Chug, chug, chug. And what I'm wanting to see is Ilan Musk's mag train going through the boring tunnels, right? And so bridging the gaps, I'm going to go really far back to where we were at the beginning of that conversation, bridging the gaps between the speed at which change looks like it wants to happen, because of the powers that be, and the possibility of what can happen if we have the movement with a leader that is like an Elan Musk, that is like, somebody who's there going, Okay, we're about to do this thing. Let's go, there's no option no stop in us, you know, like Kennedy saying, we're going to the moon by the end of the decade. There's no question, like, make that happen. Right. So if we were to do that, what do you see the steps are to making that happen faster? If you could, like, if you could imagine a sped-up version of what you thought was gonna happen? And then we could kind of plan that out? What would that look like?

Franchell Hamilton: So kind of, like you said, We need somebody who's already well known, already well recognized, to be an ear. And, and to also identify and be on the same page as what this movement is about. And to be honest, I think I think we have a couple candidates. And Amazon, for example, they announced a couple years ago, they're over the way the healthcare is being practiced, and they want it to do their own health care, you model, you know, and so these big corporations, I just saw thing about JP Morgan, they want to do, you need to find these companies, we all need to find these companies who want these big changes and who get it right. And then we need them to help us because they already have the clout, they already have the ear of America, to kind of say, this is what needs to happen. Oprah would be a great person, I'm still working on that, I'm gonna get up, I'm still working on that. So somebody like that, who's like, this is the way we need to change the way healthcare is done. And then she will have this movement of people who was already on board. So I think that's what we need to kind of bridge the gap, somebody who has the power in that can be a listening ear to all of these, our voices to say, and they don't even have to do it, right. There's enough of us on the ground level that can take it where it needs to go. But we need somebody who's going to listen and help kind of drive this force, because right now, you have the providers and all the providers and we're a big force if we work together, but we need somebody bigger, honestly, to be able to kind of compete, because once we do that, and when we do this, we're competing with the big pharma companies. We're competing with insurance companies, we're competing with a lot of Congress and Senate, people who honestly, they all have nice pockets, and they don't want things to change, to be honest. So you have to have somebody who has as much power with the crowd who can come back that because right now we have work competing with pharma, and insurance come billion and trillion dollar companies who likes everything to stand or wraps. If I publish an article or almost like some of those healthcare workers you were talking about, there's people more powerful than us, that can make things disappear. You know, so we need someone or a group of powerful people who understand the way healthcare is who have nothing to lose, and they can compete with those bigger companies. So that's what we need. I'm actively working on getting bigger companies involved when the digital company that I'm working with is talking to Walmart. I just got an email a couple days ago saying JP Morgan is looking for a change. So when we get This is part of the digital health arena, because this is also how we can reach more people, right? So once we see these us on this level need to jump on that, and how do we get at least in the door with their whoever their health and wellness coordinator is right, every major company has one of those, you have to start with that and then maybe move your way up.

Ari Gronich: Unfortunately, not every single major company has one of those. You know, that's kind of my part of my bailiwick, like I was 18, starting three of the first corporate wellness programs in the country, because my school backed up to Intel, Nike and Tektronix, in Beaverton, Oregon, and I was like, Oh, well, we need to bring people to our clinic. So let's just bring our clinic to them. I've done a lot of corporate wellness programs, a lot of consulting with companies. And unfortunately, the majority still do not have a corporate wellness program, what they have what they consider to be that is, they have a health fair twice a year, or they have a few booths with vendors, and then they give flu shots. And maybe they have an on-call psychologist, you know, where you call in to psychology department or something. But yeah, the creating a complete culture of wellness and accompany is definitely one of my bailiwick's that I wish I had more companies that would say, yes, easily to that possibility. But I do agree that the company's you know, here's the thing, following the money are the companies tied to the insurance companies in any way other than that, and typically they are through investment. And because the investment is from the insurance companies, it's really hard for them to do anything that's really going to get their employees well, so they could do a lot of treatment stuff, a lot of educational stuff, not a lot of policies in place to make it happen. And that's definitely an area where I would like to see shifted and changed. You know, we were talking a little bit earlier, you said, you know how burnout is I remember going into good Samaritan Hospital back in the late 90s, and early 2000s. And they still were on 30 something hour shifts. So they, you know, if you got a surgery at the 28th hour, and it was a 15 hour surgery, you were on for 40 something hours, I mean, some of the most unhealthy people I ever met. And it was a shame, because there's some of the kindest, most loving, giving people, get treated really poorly. And so that's part of the thing is, if we made the system a little bit better, and people were less sick, then the health care workers would have less moral injury, because they'd be doing the thing that they signed up for. And people would be treating them? Well, because they're not the what I would call the sounding board for the administration, for the insurance companies, they're, you know, like, the physicians, the providers have been the sounding board for all the complaints of their patients instead of who's really at fault, or who's really, you know, at cause. So let's, let's wrap up with, I want some positives in this as well, as far as like, I want, you know, things that the audience can do immediately if, especially if they're physicians, but if they're not, that they could do immediately to shift the way that they're getting health care. And some of those behaviors and mindset more to prevention versus, you know, reaction.

Franchell Hamilton: Yeah. And, you know, I'll piggyback to and I'll make sure I answer that, because we are kind of like this digital health company that I'm working with. And I have a couple of investments in a couple of them. And there have been some leeway on that area, because a lot of them want kind of digital health. And they have the way we're pitching it to them. Kind of like what I started earlier is if your employees are healthier, they can give you more work days, they don't have to have as much time off from work they don't have so it's benefits you to kind of implement these wellness programs. And so like I said, we have entered into Walmart which surprisingly their chief health officer is very open to the idea of integrative changes. We're still Working with we're working with them. And then other companies such as share-care, which are kind of in a lot of there are people in there are people making, we're making some leeway. But you're right about the train, right, it's Chugga chugga. But I will say at least it's not stopped, like, we're, we're moving, we're moving along slowly, I think it needs to get implemented much quicker. But because of a lot of the regulations, and the pocket, the insurance has such deep roots with so many companies like you just did it, like they're investing in other companies. And that kind of keeps everything at bay and kind of this vicious cycle. It's gonna take some time, but I think a lot of people's eyes kind of got opened after this pandemic. One of the things for physicians, I would say, in order to shift this mindset, if you feel like remember the reason why you went into medicine, first of all, and if you feel like when you see your patients on a regular basis, they're not improving, you have to consider why what other factors maybe the reasons for them not improving, and honestly, you'll give my information out. But this is kind of one of the things that I do now I help physicians kind of help figure this out, because they're all getting frustrated. And so it's like, let's take a look at how the way your practice is set up. And your assessment as a physician, we need to ask patients more questions, right? Like we I'm over the, what's your chief complaint, family history, medical history? Do you smoke? Like, that's fine, we'll get all that. But we need to truly ask our patients, how are they doing? Like, how are you doing? Like, we need to get a feel of where they are at emotionally, mentally. And to be honest, that takes up a lot of time. So physicians that are employed may not want to do that, then create an assessment that does it create a questionnaire that acts that you'd be surprised if you're seeing diabetic patients. When I switched up my questions the way I asked the questions instead of just prescribing them a regimen. Let's take diabetes, for example. They come in and I'm like, oh, you're diabetic? Here is a med or insulin. And here is your nutrition or diet that you're supposed to be on? I'll see you in two to three weeks, right? You need to start asking, Can they even afford that? To be honest? What do they normally like to eat, you almost need to cater more to the patient and work with them as a partner, not as like a doctor kind of throwing out orders and then you expect them to do it. One of the reasons why our healthcare is not working is because we're putting demands on patients. And then we expect them to do that. And then when they come back the expectations aren’t there. And then we were like, Well, why is your numbers not down? or Why didn't you exercise? or Why? And we didn't even ask them? How are they doing? How do can even do what we're asking them to do? That needs to be your question, if you're going to prescribe them some type of treatment plan, and it doesn't even have to be a medication you need to ask your patient, do you think you can do this? What do you think you can do to help bridge the gap? This is my goal for you. And this is where you are. So here are some options as the physician, what are some things that you think you can do for us to help bridge the gap? That needs to be the question you ask not just medical history, here is what the American Heart Association, American Diabetes Association says. And I'll see you in three weeks. So that is what I want to offer to providers in general, nutritionist, therapists, chiropractors, I mean, there's several people, we're all in this trying to defeat this together, show them help them understand they have to understand so many patients don't even understand go to their doctor, and then they don't even know why they're started on this or what medical problem they have. That was always so frustrating for me. Make sure your patient understands what they have. I mean, come on, you know, that's number one, and then make sure they understand what your goal is for them. Right as the physician or provider, what is your goal, and then you guys have to work together to meet in the middle. That's number one. Number two for the patient. Patients need to demand more, you need to demand better. And I have told my patients to like what do you want x? What do you want patient just like the same way physicians need to provide Why did I Why am I in medicine, if it's to collect a check, you're in the wrong field, go to admin. If you're doing patient care, you need to meet in the middle with your patient and for my patients. They're so quick to just go in, get their meds or get their refills and then leave and I'm like you need to demand more. This is your health. This is your body. This is your mind, body soul. What do you want for your mind, body and soul, I always tell my patients health is not absence of disease, you need to be whole healthy whole socially, mentally and in the body. So when you think of you need to think of health that way. And if you feel like you are not getting what you need, you need to start looking for ways to get what you need. So much stuff is done virtually now. So even if your primary care doctor, they provide her meds or whatever, but they're not, but you feel like you're not getting some of the other things that you need. Go online. There's a whole host of integrative you can use integrative medicine, lifestyle, medicine, functional medicine, you can use those terms and find people that you can treat virtually the pandemic has helped people like me treat people all over. So we're not limited now to just I'm not limited to just Dallas Fort Worth, I can treat people all over, you know what I'm saying. And so for patients, if you feel like when you're leaving your physician office, and you're not getting what you want out of that you need to find another physician, you're not married to that physician, and you need to consider if your insurance won't cover it, paying out of pocket long term to pay for your health, your health is an investment, it is the most important investment you will ever make. It is more important than your house, your car, what other people spend on money, your health is more important. So spending an extra 100 or 200 a month is nothing that's groceries or half of groceries for most people, you know what I'm saying? So you need to take time and invest in your health, that's the most important investment. You cannot have joy, peace, happiness, and all these other things that we strive to have or even help others if your health is compromised. So spend the investment. So those were kind of the closing points that I would tell both those patients and physicians.

Ari Gronich: One last closing point is what would you say to the system as it is? As it's going away?

Franchell Hamilton: That's a good question. Um, I would say that for sure the current system, we, we need to make changes we need what we're doing is not working. And I would be happy to see a transformation in our healthcare system to something that's going to resolve medical problems. So I am happy to see it go away in order to revolutionize healthcare and heal our patients in America. So that's and I feel like our current medical system is actually preventing us from being able to actually heal, not just treat that heal and resolve medical problems and make people truly healthy the definition of health.

Ari Gronich: Awesome. Thank you so much for being here. I am so glad to have you on. And I know that the audience has gotten a lot out of this conversation, hopefully enough that they'll start acting upon it. We can all create a new tomorrow and activate our vision for a better world. Thank you so much for being here. I appreciate you having me. Thank you. Got it. Thank you so much. Audience I appreciate you listening in. This is our garage and it's been another episode of create a new tomorrow, where we are activating our visions for a better world today.