Nickel Creek, the bluegrass trio who's been in existence for almost 35 years, returns with their first original release in nine years. It's brainy, it's theatrical, its twists and turns are not predictable from its authors, who have entered mid-life. To that point, there is lots of middle on this album. The middle's not the most exciting or thrilling part (see: beginning or ending), but there is plenty happening and plenty to celebrate. The band says that's the feeling they want to convey through the record. Lucky us, we get to crawl into the band's history and approach to the new music via folk fashion icon, Sara Watkins.

Despite the focus on the middle, Sara gets into the beginning of her musical experience, talking of her practicing habits, musical summer camp, and being friends with 70 year old bluegrass players at the local pizza parlor. She also talks about her vocal prowess, particularly on "Where The Long Line Leads," where she blazes; singing on the very edge of her voice and it's so exciting. Of course we talk about her history of stage outfits, from mid-length skirts to fashionable jumpsuits, she's done a lot of fashion in the folk world over the course of her career. Sara Watkins is a dream: From Nickel Creek, to I'm With Her and The Watkins Family Hour! Enjoy this wonderful person! Go get that Nickel Creek record - holy cow!

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Adeem the Artist has gained a slew of new fans in the past year with their new album, ‘White Trash Revelry,’ but they are anything but an overnight success. Their journey to singer-songwriter acclaim began in middle school, when they moved from the Carolinas to New York State. Finding themself a southerner in the north, they found out that being from the American south meant something to people. It came with a certain set of assumptions and expectations that they have reckoned with over the course of their eight albums.

2022’s ‘White Trash Revelry’ is packed with poignant, witty, economical lyrics and characters so real you could reach out and shake their hands. Throughout the album you’ll notice a complicated relationship with religion, which of course we had to dig into on the podcast. In a past life Adeem was called strongly to the church, and served as a worship leader. You might be surprised at how highly transferable their pastoral skill set has been in their work as a singer-songwriter.

This episode contains many, many, many laughs, some guitar talk, some crowdfunding talk, some deep family and spiritual talk, and a million great insights from one of alt-country music’s rising stars.

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Welcome to Folk Debate Club, our occasional crossover series with fellow folk-pod Why We Write! Today, to discuss Lyrics vs Melody, we welcome our panel of guests: music journalist and former singer/songwriter, Kim Ruehl, Isa Burke (Lula Wiles, Aoife O’Donovan), musician and Basic Folk guest host lizzie no, and yours truly, Cindy Howes, boss of Basic Folk.

Our conversation begins with a case each for melody and lyrics from members of the panel. Some panelists are more fluid with their thoughts and feelings and at least one of us changes sides mid-discussion. Some interesting opinions emerge! For instance, manipulation in music is no good if the listener can see through your bullshit: “Part of the job [of songwriters] is to emotionally manipulate people. When you are feeling manipulated is when the person has missed,” says Kim. The panel talks about rawness: it can take lyrical editing before it can be presented to the public. “It’s sometimes hard to tell as the songwriter, like, how raw am I actually being?”, shares Isa, who goes on to talk about how being raw in melody can be very effective. She points to her emotional guitar solo (that was done during a difficult moment in her life) in the Lula Wiles song “The Way That It Is” as one of her most favorite musical accomplishments.

Bob Dylan comes up within 90 seconds of the debate! Don’t worry, Taylor Swift, Maggie Rogers, Stevie Wonder, Adele, and Paul McCartney also make cameo appearances. And lizzie no ftw: “Lyrics are the hand-holding that we need to bring us into the glory of instrumental music.” Enjoy! We had a good time doing this, so we’ll see you again soon!

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Sam Phillips was born to a family that loved doling out nicknames. She was called “Sam” growing up in a house that was filled with readers. She nurtured her love of philosophy and spirituality by exploring different religions and devouring works by authors like C.S. Lewis and Thomas Merton. Early in her career, she found success as a Christian musician under her real name: Leslie Phillips. She made several albums, but became uncomfortable with her label marketing her as “the Christian Cyndi Lauper.” She also had a desire to write songs that didn’t reinforce people’s religious beliefs. For her final Leslie Phillips album, she worked with future spouse/ex-spouse, T-Bone Burnett “a fellow Christian with a maverick approach to songs about faith and morality, and found a kindred spirit.” She decided to rebrand and start recording as Sam Phillips. Sam and T-Bone worked together from 1988’s The Indescribable Wow to 2004’s A Boot and a Shoe.

In our conversation, we talk about Sam’s writing process, which she is always changing up. She comes up with her best ideas when she “turns off the trying part of her brain,” but at the same time, she strongly believes in the power of editing. Sam’s probably best known for composing and performing the score for the beloved Amy Sherman-Palladino series The Gilmore Girls, for which she also made a brief appearance on the season finale in 2006. You remember those “La la la’s” while Lorelei and Rory carried around their armpit purses, drank coffee and while wearing those horrible boot cut jeans? That was Sam Phillips! Currently, Sam is working on a new album and she’s taking her time, so don’t rush her, OK?

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Fun times with our favorite non-duo duo Anna Tivel and Jeffrey Martin. The pair met in the early 2010's in Portland, bonded over songwriting and have been together ever since. They got together at a time when they were both learning how to tour and they were able to figure it all out as a pair. And yes, they have toured and do tour together and have sang on each other's records, but there has never been an interest in an official collaboration. In this special interview, they discuss their thoughts and feelings on their partner's musical style: from how each learned music, to the way they each write songs. They discuss the space they give each other to be alone in creativity and how that space is key to their success as partners.

Anna released her latest album, the acclaimed Outsiders in 2022 and Jeffrey is currently working on a new record. In fact, Jeffrey is recording his upcoming release in a small shack he built on their property in Portland. He completed the structure just in time for the pandemic to start, which was perfect timing since it meant he had his own space to work outside of his house and they both had a place to perform their weekly live streams. Jeffrey is also quite handy and has agreed to build a house for me and don't think I won't hold him to it. We have it on tape, Jeffrey. Please enjoy this fun interview with two of my favorite people and musicians. 

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WHOA! SistaStrings is the real life sister duo of Monique (cello) and Chauntee (violin) Ross. Currently tearing it up on the road with Brandi Carlile and Allison Russell, The Ross sister’s musical roots began with their intense classical training, family gatherings and in church. All five of their siblings played music, toured around with their minister parents and even had their own family band, Sisters of Praize with older sisters Charice Ross on violin and Rickena Johnson on viola. After Chauntee was done with college, she and Monique teamed up again and ventured out in the Milwaukee music scene where they cut their teeth and tried their hand at all sorts of different styles: hip-hop, jam bands, electronic music and singer-songwriters. There, they met a kindred in Peter Mulvey, who they started performing with in 2016.

SistaStrings officially made the move to Nashville in the summer of 2021. Once there, they started playing gigs with Allison Russell. Monique’s encounter with Brandi Carlile at Newport Folk Fest, led them to both touring with her band. In our conversation, Lizzie and Cindy talk to Monique and Chuantee about being romantic string players thanks to their classical background, which also gave them a very thick skin. They also talk about the decision to pursue a musical path into the folk and Americana world, which is notoriously a white space. Spoiler alert: it wasn’t an easy decision, but it’s one they have not come to regret.

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Growing up in the Berkshires, Massachusetts-born Eliza Edens grew up in a family with strong musical roots. Getting her first guitar at 16, she was moved to write songs as her chosen form of expression. After some time in Philly, Eliza took on New York, choosing Brooklyn as her home base. There she found community and began to thrive creatively, especially in embracing her queer identity, Eliza uses she/they pronouns.

She released her second album We’ll Become the Flowers in 2022 seeking to understand what happens after the end. She had a lot of processing to do after a breakup and her mother being diagnosed with a neurodegenerative disease. Her mother has been a central figure in her songwriting recently, especially in her love of gardening and flowers. Eliza's music, like the person, is thoughtful, unpredictable, serious, and silly. Hope you enjoy getting to know this cool musician!

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Mark Erelli is slowly going blind. In August 2020, he noticed he couldn’t see his fingers during a show. After that, as he was driving in a tunnel everything went black. Mark went to the doctor and was diagnosed with retinitis pigmentosa, or RP. Since then, his life has changed in ways he could have never imagined. He doesn’t drive at night, he carries a flashlight everywhere he goes, his relationship with his family, his writing and career have been pushed to the brink. All the processing he’s done over the last three years has led him to his latest album, Lay Your Darkness Down.

In our conversation, we talk about Mark’s new challenges he’s faced while living with RP. He shares what it was like for him to tell friends and how he constantly has to advocate for himself. One aspect he did not expect was being able to use his white male privilege to speak up about his disability in hopes to help the community of people with disabilities. Once he realized that, he recognized that it was his responsibility to speak up for the greater good.

One hilarious note: my 6 month old puppy decided she wanted to interrupt and tear apart a book during the interview. I tried to get her out of the room, but in the end, she insisted that she remain. I apologize for the occasional rustling and background noise. If you listen hard enough at one point, you can hear Dottie the cat growling at her. Yay puppies.

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Originally from a small town: Gause, Texas, Ruthie Foster came from a family of gospel singers. Singing gospel music acted as a prime method of communication in her life strongly enough that it ended up being her career. Along the way, Ruthie studied audio engineering in college, which ended up giving her invaluable knowledge to support her artistic expression, especially as a woman in a male dominated field. She quit music for about a year and joined the Navy, wanting to do something other than music. In the Navy, stationed in San Diego, she worked around helicopters, giving her even more of a technical mindset. While in the Navy, she also learned how to be chill AF, thanks to her recruiting officer who led by example and taught Foster and fellow recruits how to relax in their work.

One aspect of Ruthie's story that blows my mind is her time in New York City. In the post-Tracy Chapman era, she was swept up and signed by a major label looking for the next Chapman carbon copy. During her years with Atlantic, Ruthie took the time to learn how to be a songwriter and performer, while never recording a single thing. It was a genius move and gave her an invaluable education for a young musician! She moved back to Texas to be with her ailing mother to spend the remaining years of her life together. Ruthie Foster is an impressive artist and person who has learned the lesson of where to be and when to be there. Of her new album Healing Time, she says “There’s always time for healing, if you give it time.” Enjoy!

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By the mid-2010’s Canadian rock legend Tom Wilson’s life was already pretty epic: he had perfected his blue collar roots rock sound in his bands Blackie and The Rodeo Kings and his seminal 90’s outfit Junkhouse. He was a home-grown rock and roller with humble Hamilton, Ontario roots. In addition to his musical output, he had overcome addiction, he was a father, grandfather and painter. However, his life completely changed when, by chance, he discovered he had been adopted and that he was actually of full blood Mohawk descent and not Irish like he was raised to believe. His birth-mother was actually a “cousin” of his, who had been forced into Canada’s cruel residential schools. The people he thought were his parents, had actually been his great Aunt and Uncle. At 53 years old, his world was about to get 100% more wild.

Ever since then, Tom has been on a path to identity. He’s written a memoir, made a documentary, an album as his musical alter-ego Lee Harvey Osmond and his latest project, collaborating with fellow Canadian, the Cree-Métis musician iskwē | ᐃᐢᑫᐧᐤ. Tom’s new mission at this point in his life is to tell his story, “Our greatest job as storytellers is to open up the door to the next person and let them know they can tell their stories too.”

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Courtney Marie Andrews seems anciently wise in general, but on her new album Loose Future, she's particularly tapped in to some cosmic intelligence. Growing up, CMA spent a lot of time alone, so we naturally start our conversation there. People have been isolated in the last few years, which can be sad and scary, but also offer certain gifts. Courtney was able to quarantine during the first summer of the pandemic on Cape Cod. She grounded herself by walking six to eight miles daily and exploring herself “forever against the backdrop of summer.” She painted, reconnected with nature and wrote a song a day. Those songs resulted in the new record.

 She made the album at Flying Cloud Recordings in New York, taking a dip in the creek every morning before getting to work in order to embody the feeling of letting love in: “Sometimes you plunge, and sometimes you walk slowly in," she says. We discuss how that practice got her ready for the day and the ins and outs of several of the songs. We also get into the intentionality she put into the beat for Loose Future. She wanted to make something modern with a driving percussive beat, but Graceland was also an inspiration. CMA ended up at a few distanced drum circles during the pandemic that felt very healing and communal. Enjoy Courtney Marie! She's brilliant and offers so much foresight. 

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The latest from Nashville-based, New York-bred and Georgia-born trio The Lone Bellow, Love Songs for Losers, was recorded at Roy Orbison’s creepy former house in Hendersonville, TN. The house’s vibe bled its way into the vibe of the album, which was co-produced by band members Brian Elmquist and Kanene Pipkin, producing vocals. The band went for a bombastic sound and they did it with no adult supervision (read: no outside producer influence). Frontman Zach Williams expounded on the experience along with his affinity for the house’s architect, the eccentric Braxton Dixon.

We talk about a few standout songs from album including “Gold,” which takes a look at new small town life heavily impacted by the opioid crisis, “Honey,” a sort of poking love song to his wife and “Homesick,” which serves as the theme song for his new renovation program “The Williams Family Cabin.” The TV show features Zach and his wife Stacy flipping a cabin outside of Nashville and all the antics that come with it. Zach is familiar with the world of home renovation shows thanks to his close friend and home reno personality, the designer Leanne Ford. He actually got some good advice from Leanne prior to starting the show, but neglected to listen (LOL).

Zach’s a really fun person to watch on stage, he’s a remarkable showman. Catch The Lone Bellow live if you can. Their new album is fantastic! The creepy old matchstick house must have really worked wonders.

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*** Lizzie No interviews John Calvin Abney... A lot of people like to claim the title “Hardest Working Person In Music” but John Calvin Abney might take the crown from them all. John has made a name for himself as a shit-hot guitar player, accompanying John Moreland, Samantha Crain, Margo Cilker, and many others (including Lizzie No herself!). But the reason we wanted him to join us as a guest on Basic Folk is that his own catalog is poetic and beautifully produced. 

John grew up in Nevada and Oklahoma, and you can hear the restless desert highways in all the soundscapes he creates. His latest album, ‘Tourist,’ asks the question of how a person can feel at home when they spend their life on the road. It also finds resolution after the death of John’s father, through found recordings and thoughtful lyrics. Listening to ‘Tourist’ feels like catching up with an old friend. You might hear Elliott Smith in “Good Luck and High Tide” or J.J. Cale in “Call Me Achilles,” but the stories are John Calvin to the core.

We dug into recording techniques, John’s high school identity as “guitar guy,” touring with Hanson, Christian camp, and how running off to Europe as a romantic gesture helped launch John’s career.

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Known as one of the foremost fiddlers of her generation, Lissa Schneckenburger's latest release is a huge left turn for the Vermont resident. Thunder in My Arms is unique because Lissa is not only singing her own compositions, but the subject matter is hugely personal. The album chronicles her experiences adopting her son. Through the fostering and adoption process, she came across resources, workshops and books, but no music that specifically was about this experience. Since she processes hard things through music, she decided to step up and create this album for her family and for those in the adoption and fostering communities. Lissa thrives and lives in the community through music, so creating and reaching out to this new community came as second nature.

Born and raised in rural Maine, Lissa grew up around music and started on the fiddle at five years old. She competed in fiddle competitions, went to Maine Fiddle Camp and the much revered Valley of the Moon Camp in Northern California. Arriving in Boston for school at New England Conservatory of Music, she found herself among a familiar group of musicians that she'd grown up with at the camps. She teamed up with Laura Cortese, Hanneke Cassel and Flynn Cohen to form the seminal Boston fiddle group Halali, which inspired so many young players and ignited a fiddle renaissance in town. Since then, she has released solo albums and been a part of groups like Low Lily. She now lives in Brattleboro, VT with her son and her husband, in-demand upright bassist Corey DiMario (Crooked Still). Lissa has a new fiddle album on the way in 2023, which you can pre-order right from the lady herself. Enjoy Lissa!

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Upright bassist, singer and songwriter Melissa Carper has been playing in bands since she took up the position of bass in her family band at the age of 12. She grew up with a reverence for country music in her small town Nebraska family. The original Carper Family band toured regionally on the weekends at Elks lodges, VFWs and small bars. Little Melissa made $50 a gig, which allowed her to take her friends out for dinner and give her an early sense of what it was like to be a paid musician. She attended school for music, but ended up leaving two and a half years in and began her rambling.

Melissa’s lived in Nebraska, New York, Alaska, New Orleans, Arkansas and Austin to name only a few. She usually has stayed around a place for a couple years until she moves on. Along the way, she’s formed many bands like a new version of The Carper Family, Sad Daddy and Buffalo Gals. In recent years, she’s been releasing albums under her own name, which is strange because she does not like being the center of attention. Her writing is filled with humorous quips, even though she claims to have a “slow wit.” Her classic country sound is unique in that her writing is sharp, her delivery is relaxed and her voice is unreal. She spent a lot of time studying the voices of Hank Williams and Leadbelly to develop that honeyed, yet raw sound. Melissa Carper is the real deal! Go check out her new album Ramblin’ Soul and enjoy our conversation.

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A note before we begin: our guest on this episode, Patrick Haggerty of Lavender country passed away on October 31 at the age of 78 several weeks after he’d had a stroke. This episode was produced before his death. We are grateful to be able to share this conversation with Patrick and we hope our listeners will take some time to learn about Patrick’s remarkable life, especially his pro-LGBTQ+ and pro-working class activism. We are sending love to his many fans, friends, and especially his family at this difficult time.

Patrick Haggerty, the frontperson of Lavender Country, is a legend of queer country music. He made history when he released the first openly gay country album in 1973. In a lot of ways, Nashville still isn’t ready for queer folks to be our outspoken selves, but in 1973 it was almost unthinkable. Patrick walked into the cultural storm consciously, knowing that his story needed to be told even though few were ready to hear it. 

After being shunned from the music industry, Patrick continued to do important work in the communities he cared about. He worked for decades as a social worker, community organizer, gay rights activist, and anti-racist activist. He got married and raised children. Then, a wild twist of internet fate took place. One of Lavender Country’s songs got posted to youtube and Patrick found himself signed to a record label and creating his second album. He re-emerged into a world that was more gay friendly, and to a new legion of fans who had found his music on the internet.

It was a special honor to speak with Patrick and his husband, JB, after spending time on the road with them this past spring during the “Roundup” queer country tour. Their steadfast relationship, humor, activism, and dedication to building a better world have taught me so much about what it means to make a life in music as a queer person. We at Basic Folk are honored to share this conversation with you.

CONTENT WARNING: this episode contains mentions of self-harm, suicide, and homophobia.

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Lizzie No talks to Ondara

When Ondara was a little boy growing up in Nairobi, Kenya, music was both everywhere and just out of reach. He walked around the market listening to vendors playing music from stereos, stopping to listen when he heard something that caught his attention. His family couldn’t afford musical instruments, and the household radio was constantly in demand so he would wait until everyone was asleep so that he could listen to music by himself. He began writing poems, and eventually a cappella songs. He figured that if Bob Dylan could create a legacy setting insightful poems to music, so could he.

In 2013, Ondara won the green card lottery and moved to Minneapolis, because a. He had a family member there, and b. His hero Bob Dylan came from there. Ondara quickly discovered that Minnesota was a little different than he had dreamed. He was working temp jobs to buy his first guitar, writing dozens of songs that would eventually become his debut album, ‘Tales of America,’ and getting his foot in the door in the Minneapolis open mic scene. But he found that it was difficult to put a band together, that the life of a songwriter was lonely, and that, in America, the color of his skin came with a whole set of expectations about how he should behave (and even about what kind of music he should create).

Ondara has worked to understand the expectations without bowing to them. He shared during our conversation that being Black in America means joining a tradition of art and resistance, and that helping The Cause matters to him. And his ability to contribute to the cause has grown exponentially, since Ondara hit the road in support of his hit debut album and opening for artists like Neil Young, Lindsey Buckingham, and the Lumineers.

Since then, Ondara has looked outward for subject matter, releasing a pandemic-inspired album in 2020 based on his friends’ stories of quarantine dating and struggling to pay the rent. He has also undertaken a significant spiritual journey as he struggles to reconcile fame and the demands of capitalism with his desire to become a grounded, useful, wise, grown-up adult. His solution, for now, comes in the form of the Spanish Villager, the hyper-performative character at the center of his new album.

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Lizzie No talks to Mali Obomsawin

Y’all ready for a crossover? Basic Folk listeners will remember Mali Obomsawin from their work as a bassist, singer, and songwriter with folk trio Lula Wiles, but today we are celebrating Mali’s debut as a jazz bandleader/composer. Mali’s new album, ‘Sweet Tooth,’ was inspired by field recordings of elders from Mali’s Wabanaki community.

Mali’s improvisational approach to creating music results in a remarkable living piece of music that not only illustrates hundreds of years of their people’s history, but also illuminates their hopes for the rematriation of Native lands. One of the most insidious lies about Native people in the Americas is that they are relics of the past, not constantly-evolving communities. Through their music and activism, Mali refutes this claim. The record weaves field recordings with intense instrumentals and Mali’s stunning voice. They even co-wrote a Penobscot language chant to close the album. ‘Sweet Tooth’ confronts heartbreaking history while insisting upon a path forward. It is at turns heartbreaking, jarring, tender, and fun.

Those who are interested in learning more about the concept of intersectionality will find this episode of Basic Folk fascinating. Mali and I dig deep into what it looks like to embrace gender freedom while remaining loyal to the bonds shared by women of color within a hostile colonial culture.

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Originally from Charlottesville, Virginia, Caroline Spence came from this cool family that always seemed to be messing around with music: listening and playing music. She’s recently been discovering and sharing home movies from when she was a kid: scooting around in diapers on a guitar case, singing with her grandfather and mother. The clips, which she used in the video for “Clean Getaway,” were a gift in which she was able to see her true personality and genuine love of music from a young age. She was emboldened to perform and write by her musical aunt, who invited Caroline to open for her as a teenager.

She came to Nashville for a job in the music industry and slowly started putting herself out there as a songwriter for other musicians. Her writing is based in honesty and she opens up about her relationship to the truth in our conversation. We also get into how she had to develop ego, why it matters and how she let herself have access to ego. We discuss her love of flowers and how she relates the songs on her new album True North to different flowers. Caroline is an avid reader of Mary Oliver and even has a new song named after her as the poet feels devotional and spiritual. Enjoy Caroline Spence!

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