On this Saturday edition of Real Life Real Crime, Cyndi Overton takes a single entry from September 12 in her true-crime calendar and follows it into the unresolved disappearance and death of Patricia Marie Viola.

Patricia was a 42-year-old wife and mother living in Bogota, New Jersey, when she vanished on February 13, 2001. She had spent the morning volunteering at her children's school, walked home, spoke with her mother and then seemingly left her house again—without her purse, identification, keys, cell phone or epilepsy medication.

Her family searched for more than a decade without knowing that partial human remains recovered at Rockaway Beach in Queens in 2002 belonged to Patricia. DNA finally connected the remains to her in September 2012, but the identification did not answer the question her family had been asking since the day she vanished: What happened to Patricia?

During those years of uncertainty, Patricia's husband, Jim Viola, turned his family's experience into action. Working with New Jersey lawmakers, he helped champion legislation known as Patricia's Law, designed to improve the collection and comparison of DNA and identifying information in long-term missing-person cases.

Patricia's remains were eventually identified through DNA—the very type of connection her family had fought to make easier for other missing families. Contemporary reporting confirms that the law went into effect in 2008 and that DNA ultimately linked the remains recovered in Queens to Patricia.

Her identity was restored.

How she died remains unanswered.

Real Life Real Crime, Cyndi Overton, Woody Overton, Patricia Viola, Patricia Marie Viola, Jim Viola, Patricia's Law, Bogota New Jersey, missing Patricia Viola, New Jersey missing person, Rockaway Beach remains, unidentified remains, DNA identification, missing persons DNA, missing persons database, cold case, unsolved disappearance, February 13 2001, September 12 2012, missing mother, true crime podcast, RLRC

• Patricia Marie Viola
• February 13, 2001 disappearance
• Bogota, New Jersey
• Patricia's epilepsy and missing medication
• Last-known timeline
• Unusual conversation before her disappearance
• Search for Patricia
• 2002 Rockaway Beach remains
• Jim Viola
• Patricia's Law
• Missing-person DNA databases
• 2012 DNA identification
• Patricia's unresolved cause of death

This one is definitely Real Life Real Crime, not True Crime Time For. Cyndi actually explains the change in the recording: she initially planned the normal Friday show, remembered that Saturdays are now reserved for RLRC, and realized Patricia's story was substantial enough to become the entire episode.

I also like the title focusing on Patricia + the law rather than making her disappearance sound like a solved murder. Her remains were identified, but the available evidence did not establish how she died, and Jim himself said even police couldn't reasonably construct a theory from the evidence available.

One small transcript correction for the written metadata: it repeatedly renders Bogota as “Bogata/Bogoda.” The correct New Jersey borough is Bogota.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com
* Check out Progressive: https://www.progressive.com


Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/real-life-real-crime/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Today’s True Crime Time For is devoted entirely to a major development in #WhatHappenedToMadison—and the beginning of a new chapter: #JusticeForMadison.

Woody Overton attended a press conference with West Feliciana Parish Sheriff Brian Spillman, where authorities announced the execution of a search warrant at 9745 Morris Road in connection with the disappearances of Madison Renee Allen and Stephanie Hevia.

More than ten federal, state and local agencies are assisting in a slow, methodical search of approximately 15 acres, using specialized technology, cadaver dogs, ground-penetrating radar and other equipment. The warrant includes a search for possible human remains.

Thomas Morris, a person of interest in both disappearances, remains jailed on unrelated second-degree kidnapping and false-imprisonment charges stemming from the July rescue of another woman. Investigators say information from victims' families, media, podcasters and people with knowledge of Morris helped them develop sufficient evidence to obtain the new search warrant.

Woody then plays Sheriff Spillman's press conference, including a significant exchange in which the sheriff is asked whether investigators could be dealing with a serial killer.

His answer is carefully qualified but extraordinary: if investigators find what they expect to find on the property, he believes that definition fits.

After more than seven months of asking #WhatHappenedToMadison, Woody tells the Lifers it's time for a new message:

#JusticeForMadison.

The search has begun. The investigation continues. And anyone with information is urged to come forward.

313-RLRC-TIP.

True Crime Time For, Real Life Real Crime, Woody Overton, Justice for Madison, #JusticeForMadison, What Happened to Madison, #WhatHappenedToMadison, Madison Renee Allen, Madison Allen, Stephanie Hevia, Thomas Morris, Sheriff Brian Spillman, Brian Spillman, West Feliciana Parish, West Feliciana Parish Sheriff’s Office, Morris Road, 9745 Morris Road, St Francisville Louisiana, Zachary Louisiana, missing women Louisiana, Louisiana missing persons, search warrant, human remains search, cadaver dogs, ground penetrating radar, serial killer investigation, Louisiana true crime, RLRC, 313 RLRC TIP

• #JusticeForMadison
• Madison Renee Allen and Stephanie Hevia
• Thomas Morris
• Sheriff Brian Spillman
• West Feliciana Parish search warrant
• 15-acre Morris Road property
• Search for possible human remains
• More than ten assisting agencies
• Cadaver dogs and specialized search technology
• Thomas Morris kidnapping case
• Public tips and the Lifers
• Serial-killer question
• Full sheriff's press conference
• 313-RLRC-TIP

This is the episode where #WhatHappenedToMadison officially becomes #JusticeForMadison, so I agree that should absolutely be the title hook. Woody explicitly asks listeners to stop using the former hashtag and begin using the new one.

We should continue being careful not to say Madison or Stephanie has been found or that Morris has been charged with their deaths. Sheriff Spillman says investigators believe the search may produce evidence implicating Morris and possibly others, and his serial-killer statement is expressly conditional on what investigators find. 

Our Sponsors:
* Check out BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com
* Check out Progressive: https://www.progressive.com


Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/real-life-real-crime/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Today, Real Life Real Crime goes back to the beginning of #WhatHappenedToMadison.

Woody explains that RLRC is re-releasing the first episode in the Madison Renee Allen series because, by the afternoon of September 10, listeners are going to understand why this case is back at the center of attention. He promises a brand-new episode Friday covering what the Lifers helped bring to fruition.

In this original conversation, Woody sits down with Lynn Rollins, Madison’s mother, to introduce listeners to the woman behind the missing-person case.

Madison Renee Allen was born in 1991 and raised primarily in Mississippi. Lynn talks openly about Madison’s childhood, early trauma, relationships, motherhood, addiction and attempts at rehabilitation—not to define her by those struggles, but to make sure listeners understand that Madison is a real person with children, siblings, a mother and a family that loves her.

As an adult, Madison eventually moved between Mississippi and Louisiana. After losing her Baton Rouge apartment and totaling her car in 2023, she became increasingly dependent on others for transportation and housing.

That is when she met Thomas Morris.

According to Lynn, Morris offered Madison a place to stay in Zachary, Louisiana, in exchange for helping care for his two children. Madison moved into his home around October 2023 and initially seemed to be doing better. She told her mother she had transportation, was helping with the children, intended to return to school and was looking at caregiving work.

Lynn last communicated with Madison on a different phone number on November 29, 2023.

Then Madison went silent.

At first, Lynn believed her daughter was simply busy. But when Madison failed to contact her on important occasions—including Lynn’s birthday—concern turned into fear.

By April, Lynn began contacting Madison’s friends and eventually reported her missing.

That search led her back to Thomas Morris.

Lynn says Morris initially told her that he had not seen Madison since around Thanksgiving and claimed he had been looking for her himself. What he did not initially tell Lynn was that Madison had actually been living in his home.

According to the account in this episode, Morris later told Zachary Police that Madison left his residence with another man and took her belongings with her.

That became one of the first major questions in the case.

Woody ends the episode asking listeners to remember Madison’s name, share #WhatHappenedToMadison, and call 313-RLRC-TIP with any information—no matter how small.

Because somebody knows what happened.

And this episode is where the investigation began.

Real Life Real Crime, Woody Overton, Lynn Rollins, Madison Renee Allen, Madison Allen, What Happened to Madison, #WhatHappenedToMadison, missing Madison Allen, missing woman Louisiana, Zachary Louisiana, Thomas Morris, Madison Allen Zachary, Louisiana missing person, missing mother, Baton Rouge missing woman, November 29 2023, RLRC investigation, missing persons podcast, true crime investigation, cold case, 313 RLRC TIP

• Madison Renee Allen
• Lynn Rollins
• Madison’s childhood
• Childhood trauma
• Addiction and rehabilitation
• Madison as a mother
• Move to Louisiana
• Baton Rouge hotels
• Loss of her vehicle
• Thomas Morris
• Move to Zachary
• Last communication November 29, 2023
• Madison reported missing
• Initial statements from Thomas Morris
• Zachary Police Department
• #WhatHappenedToMadison
• 313-RLRC-TIP
• Major case development

• This is a Real Life Real Crime episode, not True Crime Time For.
• It is a re-release of the first #WhatHappenedToMadison episode, deliberately timed because Woody says a major development is unfolding and a new episode will follow Friday.
• The correct name is Madison Renee Allen, and her mother is Lynn Rollins. Madison disappeared after living with Thomas Morris in Zachary, Louisiana.
• The last communication Lynn describes in this episode occurred on November 29, 2023.
• I would not put Thomas Morris’s name in the episode title for this re-release. The emotional and promotional hook is that listeners are being taken back to the beginning immediately before the new development drops. That creates more urgency without making the title overly accusatory. 

Our Sponsors:
* Check out BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com
* Check out Progressive: https://www.progressive.com


Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/real-life-real-crime/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

On today’s True Crime Time For, Woody opens with the bizarre 1999 disappearance and murder of Girly Chew Hossencoff in Albuquerque, New Mexico, before moving into a packed episode involving police misconduct, disturbing family violence, international crime and two major death-penalty stories.

In Georgia, a Cedartown police officer is under investigation after fatally shooting a beloved bottle-raised donkey named HeeHaw while officers searched private property for a missing child. Officer Trenton Garner says the donkey charged and that a Taser attempt failed; HeeHaw’s owner, Hannah Israel, disputes that the animal was aggressive. Garner has been placed on administrative leave while the shooting is investigated.

Then Woody turns to an increasingly disturbing investigation in Philadelphia involving Eugene Horsch and the home once shared with his late father, Raymond Charles Horsch. Authorities have recovered more than 600,000 images, 70,000 videos and 10,000 pages of writings and drawings, along with chemicals, urns and other evidence. Investigators say digital evidence appears to depict missing women Maribel Fresses and Gabrielle Amarando deceased. A more recent report says investigators also found video that appears to show Raymond Horsch, not Eugene, strangling an unidentified woman. Eugene Horsch has not been charged with any homicide connected to the women.

In Maine, Nathan Lagasse, 27, is accused of attacking his own mother with a 25-pound weight, a butter knife and pliers before forcing her to drive for hours. She survived and was hospitalized with serious injuries.

Woody also covers the case of Leila Abolhasani, a 43-year-old Iranian mother of two who has been sentenced to death on a charge of moharebeh, or “enmity against God.” Her family says she merely photographed a burning supermarket during January protests; Iranian authorities accuse her of involvement in the arson. Her appeal is now before Iran’s Supreme Court.

Back in the United States, Georgia death-row inmate Stacey Humphreys is scheduled for execution September 16 for the 2003 murders of real estate agents Cyndi Williams and Lori Brown. Evidence at trial showed the women were forced to give up their bank PINs before being shot to death. Humphreys later admitted, “I know I did it,” while forensic evidence tied him to the victims and the murder weapon.

Finally, Woody revisits the death of Mica Miller, whose 2024 death was officially ruled a suicide. Her estranged husband, pastor John-Paul Miller, is now facing federal charges for cyberstalking and allegedly lying to investigators. Prosecutors accuse him of harassing Mica, interfering with her finances, tracking her, damaging her tires and distributing an intimate image without consent. Miller has pleaded not guilty, and his trial is scheduled for October 2026.

True Crime Time For, Real Life Real Crime, Woody Overton, Girly Chew Hossencoff, Diazien Hossencoff, Linda Henning, HeeHaw donkey, Trenton Garner, Hannah Israel, Cedartown Georgia, Eugene Horsch, Raymond Horsch, Philadelphia house of horrors, Maribel Fresses, Gabrielle Amarando, missing women, Nathan Lagasse, Maine crime, Leila Abolhasani, Iran death penalty, Stacey Humphreys, Cyndi Williams, Lori Brown, Georgia execution, Mica Miller, John-Paul Miller, Death of a Pastor’s Wife, cyberstalking, true crime podcast

• Girly Chew Hossencoff murder
• HeeHaw donkey shooting
• Trenton Garner
• Eugene and Raymond Horsch
• Philadelphia missing-women investigation
• Maribel Fresses
• Gabrielle Amarando
• Nathan Lagasse
• Leila Abolhasani
• Iranian death sentence
• Stacey Humphreys execution
• Cyndi Williams and Lori Brown
• Mica Miller
• John-Paul Miller
• Cyberstalking charges

The biggest correction in this episode is the Philadelphia story: the newly reported video allegedly shows Raymond Horsch, Eugene’s deceased father, appearing to strangle a woman—not Eugene Horsch. Eugene remains in federal custody on separate charges and has not been charged with homicide in connection with the missing women.

The Iranian woman’s correct name is Leila Abolhasani, not the transcript’s phonetic rendering, and her case is currently under Supreme Court review.

The Georgia death-row inmate is Stacey Humphreys, and his victims were Cyndi Williams and Lori Brown. His execution is currently scheduled for September 16, 2026.

And the final Mica Miller segment should stay carefully worded: her death was officially ruled a suicide, while John-Paul Miller faces federal cyberstalking and false-statement charges. He has pleaded not guilty.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com
* Check out Progressive: https://www.progressive.com


Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/real-life-real-crime/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

On today’s episode of True Crime Time For, Woody starts with an update about the direction of the shows. Saturdays are going back to old-school Real Life Real Crime stories, while True Crime Time For continues during the week. He also reminds listeners that work continues on #WhatHappenedToMadison, #JusticeForHailey, and the other cases RLRC is involved with—and that any breaking developments will be brought to listeners as soon as possible.

Then it is time for a disturbing edition of Family Matters.

Four Children Allegedly Kept in a “Rolling Prison”

Florida authorities say four children were kept for years inside the cab of a semi-truck and subjected to horrific abuse by the adults who were supposed to protect them.

Florida Attorney General James Uthmeier announced charges against Keysha Monique Epps, 51, and Tamra Marshon Stewart, 37.

Authorities allege the two women kept two boys and two girls confined in the cab of a tractor-trailer for approximately six years while traveling freight routes between Florida and Georgia. Uthmeier described the truck as a “rolling prison.”

Investigators allege the children were deprived of schooling, adequate medical care, hygiene and basic opportunities to move freely outside the truck. According to the case outlined by Woody, some of the children suffered untreated injuries, including burns that left permanent scarring.

The allegations become even more disturbing.

Prosecutors say the children were also subjected to sexual abuse, with Stewart accused of abusing the girls and physically assaulting the boys when they witnessed or challenged what was happening. One child was reportedly found with an untreated sexually transmitted infection.

Uthmeier has publicly said Florida intends to pursue the harshest punishment available.

Woody makes his own feelings about cases involving sexual abuse of children unmistakably clear.

His focus, though, remains on the four children—who now face the long process of recovering physically and emotionally after years of alleged abuse.

On This Day: The Mathis Family Murders

Woody then turns to a still-unsolved South Dakota case dating back exactly 45 years.

On September 8, 1981, LaDonna Mathis, 30, and two of her sons, Brian Mathis, 4, and Patrick Mathis, 2, were shot to death at their home near Mount Vernon, South Dakota.

LaDonna’s husband, John Mathis, survived with a gunshot wound to his arm and said a masked attacker had killed his family.

Investigators focused heavily on John, and he was eventually charged with the murders.

But in May 1982, a jury acquitted him.

The South Dakota Attorney General still lists the murders as unresolved. Neither the killer nor the murder weapon has ever been definitively identified.

The case remains one of South Dakota’s most enduring murder mysteries.

Family Matters: A Mother and Daughter Killed in Las Vegas

Next, Woody goes to Las Vegas for a horrific domestic-violence case.

Nicole Drummond, 47, died after suffering severe burns and a gunshot wound during an August attack.

Police say Jason Simmons, 48, attacked Drummond and killed her 14-year-old daughter before dying by suicide.

According to Woody’s account, Drummond called police during the attack and was later found badly burned and wounded inside the residence.

A Las Vegas Metropolitan Police officer responding to the scene was also shot when Simmons allegedly fired multiple rounds through a closed door. The officer’s ballistic vest stopped the round from penetrating completely, though she suffered injuries.

Woody closes the segment with the sad reality that the mother and daughter are dead while the alleged attacker cannot be prosecuted because he took his own life.

F’d Up Professionals: Officer Charged in Wrong-House Shooting

Then Woody heads to Pennsylvania for a case involving the fatal police shooting of a young man who appears to have simply gone to the wrong house.

Upper Pottsgrove Police Corporal Sean Farrell, 58, has been charged with voluntary manslaughter in the August 23 death of 22-year-old Glenwood Earl Pysher IV.

Authorities say Pysher had been drinking with friends and became confused while walking to a friend’s house.

He ended up at the wrong residence.

The homeowners called police.

Farrell arrived and encountered Pysher on the back patio.

According to the criminal complaint, Pysher was unarmed.

Body-camera footage allegedly shows Pysher with his hands raised while moving toward the officer. Farrell gave commands for him to get down, then fired twice while Pysher was approximately 17 to 20 feet away.

The district attorney says the video does not support Farrell’s later claim that Pysher aggressively charged him.

Montgomery County District Attorney Kevin Steele publicly described the shooting as an unlawful use of deadly force.

Farrell was charged with voluntary manslaughter and subsequently left the department after 21 years in law enforcement.

Woody approaches this story from the perspective of a former officer.

Police officers sometimes have only seconds to make life-or-death decisions. But, he says, that responsibility also means officers must rely on their training, assess the actual threat, and use force proportionate to what is happening.

In Woody’s assessment, based on the allegations and video described by prosecutors, this was a bad shooting.

F’d Up Professionals: K-9 Apollo Starved to Death

The next story makes Woody particularly angry because it involves a police K-9.

Former Dexter, Missouri police officer and K-9 handler Derrick A. Durall pleaded guilty in an animal-abuse case involving active-duty K-9 Apollo and retired K-9 Knox.

Authorities say Durall failed to adequately feed and water the dogs.

Apollo died.

Knox survived but was found in poor condition.

Durall received a one-year jail sentence, but the execution of most of that sentence was suspended. He was ordered to serve 15 days in jail, complete two years of supervised probation and pay the City of Dexter $8,900 in restitution.

That restitution amount is an important correction from the transcript, which says $80,900.

Veterinary records showed Apollo weighed only 41.6 pounds at death and had lost roughly 25 pounds since a previous visit. Investigators documented malnutrition, dehydration and pneumonia.

Retired K-9 Knox was also found with serious health problems.

Woody talks about the bond between police dogs and their handlers and how deeply dependent those animals are on the officers responsible for them.

To him, this wasn't simply neglect of an animal.

It was a betrayal of a partner.

Worldwide Crime: Son Steals £50,000 From His Father

In Scotland, Stephan Dewar stole approximately £50,000 from his vulnerable, housebound father over a period of years.

Dewar’s father had suffered a stroke and did not use online banking.

According to court reporting, Dewar initially asked his father for a £5,000 loan to help buy a pub. He then impersonated his father when dealing with the bank and secretly established online banking access.

Between 2019 and 2022, he transferred approximately £50,000 to himself.

Bank records showed spending at pubs, gambling platforms, OnlyFans and through large cash withdrawals.

Dewar was sentenced to 24 months in prison.

The transcript mentions Greggs as part of his spending; the stronger court reporting I found specifically confirms pubs, OnlyFans, gambling and cash withdrawals, so I would leave Greggs out of the published show notes unless we get a stronger source supporting that detail.

Woody’s disbelief is pretty simple:

The victim was his own father—someone whose medical condition made him particularly vulnerable.

And Dewar used that vulnerability to steal from him.

Louisiana Judge Orders Surgical Castration

Woody closes with a Louisiana case that he actually considers a positive development.

A St. Mary Parish judge sentenced a man to 35 years in prison after he pleaded guilty to offenses including second-degree rape and indecent behavior with juveniles.

The court also ordered surgical castration.

Woody strongly supports severe punishment for adults who sexually abuse children and argues that the purpose is ultimately to prevent another child from becoming a victim when an offender eventually leaves prison.

Finally, Woody returns to the cases RLRC is actively working.

He knows listeners are tired of hearing that major developments are coming.

But, he says, they are.

And when those developments finally break, the Lifers will understand exactly what he has been talking about—and the role the RLRC community played in helping push those cases forward.

He signs off as host of True Crime Time For Tuesday, September 8, 2026.

True Crime Time For, Real Life Real Crime, Woody Overton, James Uthmeier, Keysha Monique Epps, Tamra Marshon Stewart, rolling prison, child abuse, semi truck child abuse, Florida crime, death penalty, LaDonna Mathis, Brian Mathis, Patrick Mathis, John Mathis, Mathis family murders, Mount Vernon South Dakota, South Dakota cold case, Nicole Drummond, Jason Simmons, Las Vegas domestic violence, Sean Farrell, Glenwood Earl Pysher IV, Glen Pysher IV, Upper Pottsgrove, Pennsylvania police shooting, voluntary manslaughter, Derrick A Durall, K9 Apollo, K9 Knox, police K9 neglect, Dexter Missouri, Stephan Dewar, father fraud, OnlyFans fraud, Louisiana surgical castration, child sex offender, true crime podcast

• Keysha Monique Epps
• Tamra Marshon Stewart
• Florida “rolling prison” case
• Four children confined in semi-truck
• Alleged child sexual abuse
• Florida death-penalty prosecution
• LaDonna Mathis
• Brian and Patrick Mathis
• John Mathis
• 1981 Mathis murders
• Unsolved South Dakota homicide
• Nicole Drummond
• Jason Simmons
• Las Vegas domestic violence
• Officer wounded during response
• Sean Farrell
• Glenwood Earl Pysher IV
• Wrong-house police shooting
• Police use of force
• Derrick A. Durall
• K-9 Apollo
• K-9 Knox
• Police K-9 neglect
• Stephan Dewar
• £50,000 fraud
• Financial abuse of vulnerable parent
• Surgical castration sentence
• Justice for Hailey
• What Happened to Madison
• The Florida defendants’ names are Keysha Monique Epps and Tamra Marshon Stewart, and Florida Attorney General James Uthmeier has described the alleged confinement of four children inside the truck as one of the most horrific cases his office has handled.
• The Mathis murders remain unresolved. John Mathis was charged but acquitted, and South Dakota authorities still list LaDonna, Brian and Patrick Mathis among unresolved homicide cases.
• The Pennsylvania victim is Glenwood Earl Pysher IV. Prosecutors say body-camera footage contradicts the officer’s claim that Pysher charged him, and Corporal Sean Farrell is charged with voluntary manslaughter.
• The Missouri K-9 handler is Derrick A. Durall, and the restitution amount was $8,900—not $80,900. He must serve 15 days in jail and two years of probation after pleading guilty in the neglect case involving Apollo and Knox.
• Stephan Dewar is the correct spelling in the Scottish fraud case. He stole £50,000 from his father and received a two-year prison sentence.
• The episode also establishes the new programming plan: Saturdays return to Real Life Real Crime stories, while True Crime Time For continues during the week. 

Our Sponsors:
* Check out BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com
* Check out Progressive: https://www.progressive.com


Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/real-life-real-crime/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

This is Real Life Real Crime.

In this episode from the RLRC archives, Woody Overton takes listeners to rural Washington Parish, Louisiana, and the 1995 murders of a well-known dairy-farming couple inside their own home.

George Lander Spears Sr. and Bobbie Jean Spears were longtime members of their community. They operated a dairy farm on Star Hill and also owned a bar on their property. By Woody's account, they were successful, hardworking people who were well known in the area.

Then, on January 25, 1995, both were found shot to death inside their home.

And the person who would ultimately be convicted of killing them was their own daughter:

Shanda Spears Crain.

The crime scene initially presented investigators with a frightening possibility. Other members of the Spears family had recently been murdered, and detectives had to consider whether someone might be targeting the family. Lander Spears had even recently purchased a revolver because of those deaths.

That gun was now missing.

The telephone lines to the Spears home had also been cut.

There were no obvious signs that the house had been ransacked.

Then investigators learned that money was disappearing from the Spears' bank account. Checks had allegedly been forged, and suspicion began turning toward Shanda, who helped handle her parents' finances. Woody recounts that investigators also learned she had developed a video-poker gambling problem.

A Daughter Confesses

Five days after the murders, investigators questioned Shanda as a suspect.

She initially denied killing her parents.

Then she confessed.

According to the confession Woody recounts, Shanda had arrived at her parents' home that morning with one of her daughters, who was sick. She left the child with her father while she went to work milking cows at the dairy.

She later returned to the house, got her daughter and placed her in the car.

Then she went back inside.

Her father's recently purchased revolver was beside his bed.

Shanda said she picked it up and fired at him.

She missed.

Her father woke up.

She fired again.

When her mother came from her bedroom after hearing the gunfire, Shanda shot her too.

Then Shanda told investigators what she had done with the gun:

She threw it into the oxidation pond beside the dairy barn.

Investigators eventually drained the pond.

They found the gun exactly where she said it would be.

Shanda was arrested and charged with two counts of first-degree murder.

But that confession would not remain her story.

The Story Changes

After her arrest, Shanda recanted.

She claimed she hadn't killed her parents and attempted to place responsibility on her husband. Investigators checked his alibi and did not charge him. According to the record discussed during her later clemency hearing, she also at one point implicated her younger brother.

Shanda went to trial.

Her defense challenged the confession and argued that it had been coerced. Prosecutors presented evidence of the financial problems, forged checks and the potential financial benefit Shanda could receive following her parents' deaths.

After approximately four and a half hours of deliberation, the jury found her guilty.

The state sought the death penalty, but jurors did not unanimously agree to impose it.

Shanda Spears Crain was sentenced to two life sentences without the possibility of parole.

But years later, this case would become controversial all over again.

“I Didn't Kill My Parents”

While incarcerated, Shanda maintained her innocence.

She portrayed herself as the victim of a coerced confession and gained supporters who believed she had been wrongfully convicted. Eventually, she sought clemency.

And Woody doesn't simply tell listeners what happened at that hearing.

He lets you hear it.

The clemency board begins confronting Shanda with the inconsistencies that had followed her case for decades.

She had confessed to shooting her parents.

She later blamed her husband.

She had also implicated her brother.

Her husband had not been charged.

She admitted disposing of the murder weapon in the oxidation pond.

And as recently as 2022, she had maintained that she did not kill her parents.

The board wants a straight answer.

Finally, one member asks her directly whether she shot and killed both of her parents.

Shanda answers:

“Yes, ma'am.”

But even during the hearing, the story continues shifting.

Shanda discusses an allegedly abusive marriage and at one point again claims her husband was actually at the scene—despite the investigative record indicating otherwise.

A board member reads Shanda's original statement back to her in detail.

According to that statement, Shanda said that after shooting her father she went toward her mother's room. She described firing at her mother and later told investigators:

“I thought that if I could get rid of mama and daddy, that all of my problems would be solved.”

Her Daughter Defends Her

The hearing takes another emotional turn when Shanda's youngest daughter, Megan, speaks.

Megan passionately defends her mother and alleges that she witnessed serious domestic abuse in the home. She describes Shanda as a survivor and argues that fear and abuse played a role in what happened.

Her defense of her mother becomes so heated that the board eventually ends her comments.

But the central question for the clemency board remains whether Shanda has genuinely accepted responsibility.

And the board concludes that she hasn't.

Member after member cites her inconsistent stories and failure to fully acknowledge her actions.

The votes come in:

Deny.

Deny.

Deny.

Her request for clemency fails.

The Story Behind “Bag Dagger”

After the clemency hearing, Woody shares information he says was provided by people who had firsthand experience around Shanda while incarcerated.

This portion needs to remain exactly what Woody presents it as: prison allegations relayed to him by other people, not facts Woody independently witnessed.

Among those stories is the prison slang that ultimately gave the original episode its unusual title:

“Bag dagger.”

Woody explains the term and recounts what his sources alleged about Shanda's prison relationships, personality and behavior. He repeatedly makes clear that he wasn't there and has no direct knowledge of whether those allegations are true.

And that's how an episode about the brutal murder of two parents, a daughter's confession, decades of innocence claims and an extraordinary clemency hearing became known to longtime Real Life Real Crime listeners simply as:

“Bag Dagger.”

Real Life Real Crime, Real Life Real Crime podcast, Woody Overton, RLRC, Bag Dagger, Shanda Spears Crain, Shanda Crain, Lander Spears, Bobbie Jean Spears, Spears murders, Washington Parish, Washington Parish Louisiana, Louisiana murder, Louisiana true crime, daughter kills parents, parents murdered, double murder, family murder, video poker murders, gambling addiction, murder confession, recanted confession, clemency hearing, Louisiana clemency board, life without parole, Louisiana Correctional Institute for Women, true crime podcast, Southern true crime

• Shanda Spears Crain
• Murder of her parents
• Lander and Bobbie Spears
• Washington Parish, Louisiana
• Spears dairy farm
• Missing revolver
• Cut telephone lines
• Forged checks
• Video-poker gambling
• Shanda's confession
• Murder weapon recovered from oxidation pond
• Recanted confession
• Allegations against her husband
• First-degree murder convictions
• Death-penalty deliberations
• Two life sentences
• Claims of innocence
• Clemency petition
• Clemency hearing audio
• Shanda's admission
• Megan's defense of her mother
• Clemency denial
• Prison allegations
• Origin of the title “Bag Dagger”

The heart of this Real Life Real Crime episode isn't actually “Bag Dagger.” It is the evolution of Shanda Spears Crain's story—from confession, to recantation, to years of innocence claims, and finally to the clemency hearing where board members force her to confront those contradictions.

One of the strongest pieces of the original episode is that listeners don't have to rely solely on Woody's characterization of the hearing. They hear portions of it themselves—including Shanda acknowledging that she killed her parents and later telling the board that she regretted taking the lives of “two beautiful people.”

The episode also demonstrates why Woody has always distinguished Real Life Real Crime from a traditional true-crime recap. He opens the original episode by explaining that he doesn't simply pull case facts from television or the internet; the show's storytelling comes from his law-enforcement experiences and information from people directly connected to cases. 

Our Sponsors:
* Check out BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com
* Check out Progressive: https://www.progressive.com


Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/real-life-real-crime/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

On today’s episode of True Crime Time For, Woody celebrates one of his favorite weekends of the year: LSU football and the opening of dove season in Louisiana. But before heading to the field and getting ready to cheer on the Tigers, he begins the story of one of the most violent and relentlessly criminal figures in American history:

Carl Panzram.

And September 5 carries special significance in Panzram’s story. On September 5, 1930, Panzram was executed by hanging at the federal penitentiary in Leavenworth, Kansas.

But Woody isn’t starting at the gallows.

He’s starting at the beginning.

Carl Panzram: A Childhood Already Filled With Trouble

Carl Panzram was born June 28, 1891, near East Grand Forks, Minnesota, into a large family of East Prussian immigrants.

Panzram would later describe himself as a liar and thief from an extraordinarily young age and said that he became increasingly angry and violent as he grew older.

His father eventually abandoned the family. Panzram also suffered a serious childhood infection requiring surgery, although Woody notes that there is no way to know whether that illness or its treatment caused neurological damage.

What is clear is that Panzram began getting into serious trouble very young.

According to the historical account Woody follows, he had repeated contact with juvenile authorities, stole from people around him and eventually landed at a Minnesota reform school.

Panzram later alleged that he was brutally beaten and sexually abused while institutionalized.

He claimed that his treatment inside reform schools and prisons helped extinguish whatever humanity remained in him.

And at one reform school, Panzram later claimed responsibility for setting the institution on fire.

Running Away, Riding the Rails and Repeated Imprisonment

By his teenage years, Panzram was drinking heavily, stealing, burglarizing homes and repeatedly running away.

He traveled extensively by freight train, living the transient life common among young runaways and laborers of that era. Panzram later claimed that while riding the rails he was gang-raped by several men—another experience he would later cite when describing the development of his hatred toward humanity.

His criminal record continued growing.

Panzram was sent to reform institutions in Montana, escaped, committed additional burglaries and robberies and repeatedly moved under aliases.

And aliases became a major part of his life.

Among the names associated with him were Jeff Davis, Jefferson Baldwin, Jack Allen and John O’Leary, along with several other identities he used as he moved from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. San Diego State University’s Panzram archive independently confirms several of those aliases.

In an era without interconnected computerized criminal databases, a man could give authorities a different name in another state and make it significantly more difficult for police to reconstruct his history.

Panzram exploited that weakness repeatedly.

The Army Doesn't Straighten Him Out

In 1907, Panzram enlisted in the United States Army.

It did not last.

He repeatedly refused orders and was convicted of stealing military property. He was sentenced to hard labor at the United States Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth, where he remained from 1908 until 1910.

The official responsible for approving his sentence was William Howard Taft, who was Secretary of War before becoming the 27th president of the United States.

That connection becomes extremely important later.

Panzram claimed the brutality he experienced at Leavenworth destroyed whatever goodness had remained inside him.

After his release and dishonorable discharge, the criminal behavior resumed almost immediately.

Prison After Prison — And Escape After Escape

Woody follows Panzram across an extraordinary list of prisons, towns and aliases.

California.

Texas.

Oregon.

Idaho.

Montana.

New York.

Connecticut.

Washington, D.C.

Kansas.

Panzram committed robberies and burglaries, served sentences and repeatedly escaped custody.

He also became physically formidable from years of hard labor.

Panzram later openly claimed that sexual violence became part of his crimes and that he assaulted men he robbed.

Again, many of the most extreme crimes attributed to Panzram are known primarily through his own later statements, rather than convictions or independently established victims. His surviving archival papers show how extensively he boasted about murder, rape and robbery after his eventual capture.

Mexico, More Escapes and a Life in Constant Motion

Panzram crossed into Mexico, attempted to join military forces there, deserted, stole weapons and continued moving.

Back in the United States, he cycled through more arrests, aliases, prisons and escapes.

At one point he used Jefferson Davis as an alias.

Later it became Jack Allen, Jeff Davis, Jeff Rhodes, Jeff Baldwin, and eventually John O’Leary.

Woody marvels at how frequently Panzram appears to have escaped custody during a period when fingerprints, centralized records and modern communication between agencies were either primitive or nonexistent.

In 1915, Panzram was incarcerated at the Oregon State Penitentiary, where he continued defying authorities and endured long periods of punishment and solitary confinement.

He escaped again.

He was recaptured.

Then he escaped again.

By 1918, using the alias John O’Leary, Panzram left the Pacific Northwest behind.

Panzram Goes International

Panzram then moved into an entirely new phase.

Using maritime work, he traveled internationally.

He made his way through Panama and South America and later traveled to Europe, including Scotland, France and Germany.

Archival materials from San Diego State University likewise document Panzram’s extensive international travel and work aboard ships during this period.

But eventually he returned to the United States.

And in 1920, his story intersected again with William Howard Taft.

Panzram Robs William Howard Taft

In September 1920, Panzram burglarized the New Haven residence of former President William Howard Taft.

According to accounts of the burglary, Panzram stole jewelry, bonds, an inscribed watch and a Colt M1911 .45-caliber handgun belonging to Taft.

For Panzram, it was reportedly personal.

Years earlier, Taft had approved his sentence to Fort Leavenworth while serving as Secretary of War.

Now Panzram had stolen from him.

And according to Panzram’s later account, the stolen money helped finance what came next.

The Yacht Akista

Panzram purchased a small yacht called the Akista.

Then he began cruising around the New York area.

And this is where his own confession becomes especially horrifying.

Panzram claimed that he lured sailors from bars onto the yacht, got them intoxicated, sexually assaulted them and then murdered them with Taft’s stolen .45.

He claimed to have killed 10 men this way and disposed of their bodies around Execution Rocks in Long Island Sound.

There is an important distinction here:

The ten yacht murders are Panzram’s claim. They are not ten individually identified and judicially proven murder victims.

That distinction matters when telling his story.

His own writings are a major reason his alleged body count became so infamous, but Panzram frequently boasted about his crimes and investigators were never able to independently verify every murder he claimed.

According to the account, the yacht killings ended when the Akista ran aground near Atlantic City, New Jersey, allowing two potential victims to escape.

Panzram survived the wreck and was eventually rescued after exposure to the elements.

And that's where Woody stops.

For now.

Because what listeners have heard through 1920 is not remotely the end of Carl Panzram’s story.

Woody will pick it back up Monday as Panzram continues through the next chapter of his criminal life—eventually reaching the crime that finally put him in a prison he could not escape.

Panzram would ultimately claim responsibility for 23 murders and enormous numbers of robberies and sexual assaults. But his documented criminal record and his own self-reported atrocities are not always the same thing, which makes separating fact, confession and boast an important part of telling his story.

And exactly 96 years before this episode’s date, on September 5, 1930, Carl Panzram finally reached the end of the road.

He was hanged at Leavenworth.

Part 2 continues Monday.

True Crime Time For, Real Life Real Crime, Woody Overton, Carl Panzram, Carl Panzram serial killer, Carl Panzram crimes, Carl Panzram execution, September 5 1930, William Howard Taft, Fort Leavenworth, Leavenworth prison, Jeff Davis, Jefferson Baldwin, Jack Allen, John O'Leary, Akista yacht, Execution Rocks, Long Island Sound, Taft pistol, Colt M1911, prison escape, serial killer, American serial killer, criminal history, true crime history, murder confession, historical true crime, true crime podcast

• Carl Panzram
• September 5, 1930 execution
• Panzram's childhood
• Minnesota reform school
• Alleged institutional abuse
• Early burglaries and robberies
• Freight-train life
• Repeated prison escapes
• Carl Panzram aliases
• U.S. Army service
• Fort Leavenworth
• William Howard Taft
• Oregon State Penitentiary
• International travel
• John O’Leary alias
• Taft residence burglary
• Stolen Colt M1911
• Akista yacht
• Execution Rocks
• Panzram's claimed yacht murders
• Proven crimes versus Panzram's confessions
• Part 1 of Carl Panzram story
• September 5 is actually the anniversary of Carl Panzram’s execution. He was hanged at Leavenworth on September 5, 1930.
• Panzram’s story has to be told with a distinction between documented crimes and his own claims. He boasted of 23 murders and enormous numbers of robberies and sexual assaults, but not all of those crimes were independently verified.
• His numerous aliases and repeated escapes show how dramatically different interstate criminal investigation was before modern fingerprint databases, computerized records and instantaneous communication between jurisdictions.
• William Howard Taft really does intersect with the story twice: first through Panzram’s Leavenworth sentence and later when Panzram burglarized Taft’s home and stole a Colt .45 associated with the former president.
• Panzram later claimed he used that stolen pistol to murder 10 sailors aboard or associated with his yacht, the Akista, but that number should be presented as Panzram’s confession, not ten independently proven homicides.
• Woody intentionally stops the story around 1920. The transcript ends with him promising to continue Carl Panzram’s story on Monday, so Episode 269 should be treated as Part 1, not a complete biography.
• Woody also leaves the door open for a breaking update on Justice for Hailey or What Happened to Madison if developments happen before the prerecorded episode airs. 

Our Sponsors:
* Check out BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com
* Check out Progressive: https://www.progressive.com


Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/real-life-real-crime/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

On today’s episode of True Crime Time For, Cyndi takes over the microphone and begins with a message for the families who continue sending Real Life Real Crime information about unsolved cases.

There are more families asking for help than there are hours in the day. Cyndi explains that Woody is the investigator while she serves as the keeper and organizer of much of the information coming in. Every family deserves to have its case examined carefully, but meaningful investigative work cannot be rushed. She asks for patience, grace and understanding while Woody works through cases one at a time.

Then Cyndi gets into On This Day in Crime—and immediately discovers that something isn't right.

The September 4 entry says Wayne Nathan Nance, better known as the “Missoula Mauler,” died after attacking his boss and his boss’s wife, listed as Doug and Teresa Wells. But a few sentences later, it says Nance was attempting to sexually assault a woman named Chris.

Cyndi stops.

Who is Kris?

That question uncovers a much larger story.

The original account had accidentally combined two different couples. The couple who survived Wayne Nance’s final attack were Doug and Kris Wells. Teresa Shook was an entirely different woman who, along with her husband Michael “Mike” Shook, had been murdered months earlier.

And once Cyndi starts separating those two cases, the similarities become chilling.

Doug and Kris Wells Fight Back

The story begins on the night of September 3, 1986, in Missoula, Montana.

Doug and Kris Wells returned home and encountered 30-year-old Wayne Nance outside their property.

Nance wasn't a stranger. Kris knew him through work. She was a manager at a furniture store where Nance worked as a delivery driver.

Nance claimed he had noticed someone suspicious around the Wells home. He presented himself not as the threat—but as the person trying to warn them about one.

Then he attacked.

Nance struck Doug in the head. When Kris came to investigate, Nance produced a gun and forced her to tie up her husband. He restrained Kris as well and took her upstairs, where he tied her to the bed.

Nance then brought Doug into the basement, tied him to a support post, beat him and stabbed him in the chest with a large kitchen knife.

He apparently believed Doug was dying.

He was wrong.

Despite being beaten, bound and stabbed, Doug managed to free himself.

In the basement was a rifle Doug had been working on—and he had one round.

Instead of quietly escaping, Doug deliberately made enough noise to bring Nance back downstairs.

Nance came.

Doug fired.

Even after being shot, Nance continued fighting. During the struggle, Nance shot Doug in the leg. Kris fought back as well, and eventually Nance was overwhelmed.

Doug and Kris Wells survived.

Wayne Nance did not.

He was transported to the hospital and died from his injuries on September 4, 1986.

That could have been the end of the story.

Instead, it became the beginning of an investigation into whether the man Doug Wells had just killed was a serial murderer.

Donna Pounds — 1974

Investigators began looking backward.

One of the earliest cases associated with Nance was the April 1974 murder of Donna Pounds.

Pounds was attacked inside her Missoula home. She was restrained, sexually assaulted and shot, and an attempt was made to set the home on fire.

Nance knew the family and was investigated at the time. Authorities reportedly presented the case to a grand jury, but there was insufficient evidence to indict him.

Nance was only 18.

Cyndi points out several details worth remembering: a home invasion, restraint, sexual violence, murder and an attempt to use fire afterward.

Those behaviors would become important years later.

Devonna Louise Nelson — “Betty Beavertail”

In 1980, the remains of a teenage girl were discovered east of Missoula.

Investigators didn't know who she was.

For years, she was known by a name that wasn't hers: “Betty Beavertail.”

She was eventually identified as 15-year-old Devonna Louise Nelson.

Nance became a possible suspect in her death, but this is one place where Cyndi makes an important distinction: investigators have not definitively established that Wayne Nance murdered Devonna.

Her murder remains unsolved.

Marcella Cheri “Marci” Bachmann — “Debbie Deer Creek”

The connection becomes considerably stronger with Marcella Cheri “Marci” Bachmann, a 16-year-old runaway from Oregon.

Marci reportedly used the name Robin while away from home and crossed paths with Wayne Nance.

In December 1984, her remains were discovered in a shallow grave near Missoula. Investigators couldn't identify her, so she became another Jane Doe with a geographic nickname:

“Debbie Deer Creek.”

After Nance's death, investigators found evidence showing that Marci had actually known him—including photographs of the two together. Evidence recovered from Nance further strengthened the connection between them.

Marci was finally identified in 2006.

Janet Lee Lucas — “Christy Crystal Creek”

Then there was another unidentified woman.

In September 1985, skeletal remains were discovered near Crystal Creek outside Missoula. The woman had been shot twice in the head.

Again, investigators didn't know her name.

She became “Christy Crystal Creek.”

More than 35 years later, investigative genetic genealogy finally restored her identity:

Janet Lee Lucas, 23.

Janet had a five-year-old son when she disappeared. Her family spent decades without knowing what had happened to her.

Nance has been investigated as a possible suspect, particularly because Janet's remains were discovered in the same general area as Marci Bachmann's.

But again, Cyndi is careful not to turn suspicion into fact.

Authorities have not established that Nance murdered Janet Lucas. Her case remains a cold-case homicide investigation.

Michael and Teresa Shook

Then comes the case that explains why Teresa accidentally ended up attached to the Wells name in the original calendar entry.

Teresa was Teresa Shook.

She and her husband, Michael “Mike” Shook, were murdered in their home outside Missoula in December 1985.

The couple were restrained. Teresa was sexually assaulted. Both were killed, and the house was set on fire while their children were still inside.

The children survived.

And suddenly the similarities to Donna Pounds were impossible to ignore.

Donna had been attacked inside her home.

She had been restrained.

She had been sexually assaulted.

She had been shot.

Someone had attempted to use fire afterward.

Then Mike and Teresa Shook were attacked in their home, restrained and murdered before their killer set the house on fire.

Nine months later, Nance entered Doug and Kris Wells' home, restrained the couple, separated them and tried to kill Doug.

But this time, the husband survived.

And after Nance died, investigators discovered something far more concrete:

Property belonging to the murdered Shooks was found among Nance's possessions.

That evidence transformed the investigation.

This wasn't simply a crime that resembled something Wayne Nance might have done. Property belonging to murder victims had ended up in his possession.

Reconstructing the Life of a Dead Suspected Serial Killer

Investigators were now faced with an unusual problem.

Their suspect was dead.

They couldn't interrogate Nance.

They couldn't confront him with evidence.

They couldn't ask where he had been when these women disappeared.

And they could never put him before a jury and have his guilt or innocence determined in court.

Instead, detectives had to reconstruct his life backward.

What emerged was a disturbing collection of cases with very different levels of evidence.

Some had strong physical or circumstantial connections to Nance.

Others remained cases in which he was merely a suspect.

And that distinction matters.

Once someone earns the label “serial killer,” it can become tempting to attach every unsolved murder in the same area to that person. Cyndi deliberately avoids doing that.

What can be said with certainty is that on September 3, 1986, Wayne Nance entered the home of Doug and Kris Wells and attempted to kill them.

Doug Wells fought back.

And on September 4, 1986, Wayne Nathan Nance died.

Nance was never tried or convicted of the murders later associated with him. Yet evidence discovered after his death led investigators to believe the attack on the Wells family was not an isolated act and to examine him in connection with multiple killings around Missoula.

For the families of Donna Pounds, Devonna Nelson, Marci Bachmann, Janet Lucas, Michael Shook and Teresa Shook, many questions outlived Wayne Nance.

And the entire story started because Cyndi noticed one little inconsistency:

Who the hell is Chris?

True Crime Time For, Real Life Real Crime, Cyndi Overton, Woody Overton, Wayne Nance, Wayne Nathan Nance, Missoula Mauler, Missoula Montana, Doug Wells, Kris Wells, Donna Pounds, Devonna Louise Nelson, Betty Beavertail, Marcella Cheri Bachmann, Marci Bachmann, Debbie Deer Creek, Janet Lee Lucas, Christy Crystal Creek, Michael Shook, Mike Shook, Teresa Shook, Montana serial killer, suspected serial killer, cold case, unidentified victims, Jane Doe, investigative genetic genealogy, DNA identification, home invasion, true crime podcast

• Wayne Nathan Nance
• Missoula Mauler
• Doug and Kris Wells
• Wells home invasion
• Doug Wells fighting back
• Donna Pounds murder
• Devonna Louise Nelson
• “Betty Beavertail”
• Marcella “Marci” Bachmann
• “Debbie Deer Creek”
• Janet Lee Lucas
• “Christy Crystal Creek”
• Michael and Teresa Shook
• Shook family murders
• Evidence found in Nance's possession
• Unidentified murder victims
• DNA identification
• Investigative genetic genealogy
• Suspected versus confirmed victims
• Unsolved Montana murders
• The original September 4 calendar entry combined two different couples. Nance's surviving victims were Doug and Kris Wells; Teresa was Teresa Shook, who was murdered with her husband Michael months earlier.
• Doug Wells' actions stopped the attack. After being beaten, bound and stabbed, he freed himself, reached a rifle with one available round and confronted Nance. Doug and Kris survived; Nance died the following day.
• Not every murder associated with Wayne Nance should be described as a confirmed Nance murder. Devonna Nelson and Janet Lucas are among the cases in which authorities investigated him as a possible suspect without definitively establishing that he killed them.
• The Shook case provided a much stronger connection. Property belonging to Michael and Teresa Shook was discovered among Nance's possessions after his death.
• Modern DNA and genetic genealogy gave identities back to women who spent years known only as Betty Beavertail, Debbie Deer Creek and Christy Crystal Creek.
• And this episode demonstrates exactly why stopping when something doesn't make sense matters: one wrong first name was the clue that two completely different crimes had been blended together.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com
* Check out Progressive: https://www.progressive.com


Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/real-life-real-crime/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

On today’s episode of True Crime Time For, Woody opens by thanking the Lifers for listening and sharing and reminds everyone that tips can still be called into 313-RLRC-TIP on any case he has worked. He explains that when a specific tip comes in on an active investigation he cannot personally act on, he forwards it to the people currently working the case—and every credible lead has to be run down. Meanwhile, families and investigators continue waiting for answers and justice.

Larry Ralston and the Disappearance of Linda Kay Harmon

For On This Day in Crime, Woody goes back to September 3, 1975, when 17-year-old Linda Kay Harmon disappeared in Ohio while on her way to school.

Harmon failed to meet a friend and later missed a dental appointment, alarming her parents. About a month later, her skeletal remains were discovered scattered across an area along Braun Road. Her murder would eventually become part of a series connected to Larry Ralston, an Ohio serial killer and rapist.

Ralston’s known victims included Harmon as well as Nancy Grigsby, Mary Ruth Hopkins, Elaina Bear, and Diane Sue McCrobie. Historical court records confirm Ralston confessed to the strangulation murder of 15-year-old Elaina Bear, whose body was discovered in a creek bed after she disappeared in January 1977.

Woody walks through the disappearances and murders of the young women, including 22-year-old Nancy Grigsby, 15-year-old Elaina Bear and 16-year-old Diane Sue McCrobie.

The break in the investigation came after three teenage girls reported that a man had abducted and raped them in September 1977. Ralston was arrested later that year, and investigators began connecting him to the murders.

He was convicted of Elaina Bear’s murder in 1978 and initially sentenced to death. That sentence was later converted to life imprisonment following changes to Ohio’s death-penalty law. Additional murder convictions and rape sentences followed. He later pleaded guilty to the 1976 murder of Mary Ruth Hopkins.

Woody is particularly frustrated by the fact that Ralston eventually became eligible for parole despite multiple murder convictions. His bids for release have repeatedly been opposed by victims’ families and denied.

The larger question hanging over the story is whether Ralston may have been responsible for additional unsolved murders in the Cincinnati area during that period. Woody believes investigators knew of far fewer victims than Ralston actually had—but that remains speculation, not an established victim count.

F’d Up Professionals: A Nearly $24 Million Postal Check-Theft Scheme

Next, Woody heads to Houston for an F’d Up Professionals story involving people entrusted with something millions of Americans use every day: the U.S. mail.

Federal prosecutors have charged five Houston-area defendants in a conspiracy involving approximately $24 million in stolen checks.

The indictment names Tryston Tremaine Vaughn, Catherine Clauzelle Kilpatrick, Drakkor Jamar Alexander, Malcolm Tiree Joubert, and Alyssa Nadine Bryant. Kilpatrick, Alexander and Joubert worked as U.S. Postal Service mail carriers.

Prosecutors allege Vaughn recruited postal workers to remove checks from mail along their routes. Those stolen checks were then allegedly offered to buyers through Telegram and shipped to purchasers.

According to the Justice Department, the scheme involved approximately $24 million worth of checks. Individual stolen checks allegedly included amounts in the tens of thousands of dollars, while one was valued at approximately $1.5 million.

Woody talks about the unusual authority of U.S. Postal Inspectors and the federal nature of crimes involving the mail before marveling at the size of the alleged scheme.

He also makes the obvious point: a million-dollar check is one piece of mail you probably want to keep very close tabs on.

All five defendants are accused at this stage, and the charges have not been proven in court.

Two Women Suffer Broken Jaws During Argument Over a Dog

Then Woody stays in Ohio for an assault case involving Antoine James, 38.

According to court records, an argument began over James’ dog allegedly being sold without his permission. Prosecutors say James punched one woman repeatedly and then attacked a second woman when she attempted to intervene.

Both women reportedly suffered fractured jaws.

James faces charges including felonious assault, assault and aggravated menacing.

Woody uses the case to talk about something his own father taught him from childhood: anger does not justify putting your hands on a woman.

Worldwide Crime: Deadly Sword Attack at a Swedish School

For Worldwide Crime, Woody heads to Fagersta, Sweden, where a sword attack at Brinell School left a 17-year-old girl dead and three boys injured.

The alleged attacker has since been publicly identified as 18-year-old Liam Nebel. Current Swedish reporting says Nebel was a student at the school. He is accused of attacking students with a sword before police confronted and arrested him.

Two teenage boys suffered serious injuries, while another injured student was treated and released. Police were also investigating online material potentially connected to the attack.

Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson visited Fagersta following the attack and joined the country in mourning the victim and supporting the injured students, their families, and school staff.

Woody’s point is that horrific mass violence does not require a firearm. In this case, the accused attacker allegedly walked into a school armed with a sword.

F’d Up Professionals: Aiken High School Assistant Principal Arrested

Back in Cincinnati, Steven Barton, a 43-year-old assistant principal at Aiken New Tech High School, has been charged with felony sexual battery involving a 16-year-old student.

The criminal complaint alleges Barton sexually touched the student in a confined area of the school. Investigators say surveillance video and statements made during the investigation corroborated portions of the student’s account.

Police are also investigating whether there could be additional victims. Barton pleaded not guilty and received a $75,000 bond. Cincinnati Public Schools removed him from duty while the criminal and district investigations continue.

Woody focuses on the position of trust involved. Teachers, administrators, coaches, clergy, doctors, police officers and others who have authority over children have a heightened responsibility to protect them—not exploit that access.

Louisiana Sued Again Over Keeping People Locked Up Past Release Dates

The final story hits much closer to home.

A new federal lawsuit accuses the Louisiana Department of Public Safety and Corrections of continuing to hold people in custody after their lawful release dates.

The lawsuit, filed by attorneys with the Promise of Justice Initiative, names Louisiana corrections secretary Gary Westcott among the defendants and alleges that more than 1,200 people were unlawfully overdetained during the period covered by the complaint.

This is not a brand-new concern. Previous federal findings and litigation have documented Louisiana’s long-running problems calculating and implementing release dates.

And on this issue, Woody is unequivocal.

A person may have committed a crime. They may have deserved the sentence they received. But once that lawful sentence is finished, the government does not get to invent additional days in prison.

If a judge says a person’s sentence ends on a certain date, Woody says the state’s job should be to have that person ready to walk out on that date—not days, weeks or months later because of paperwork or administrative failures.

He closes by acknowledging that America’s justice system is imperfect while maintaining that accountability must apply in every direction—including to the government itself.

Woody signs off as host of True Crime Time For Thursday, September 3, 2026.

True Crime Time For, Real Life Real Crime, Woody Overton, Larry Ralston, Linda Kay Harmon, Nancy Grigsby, Mary Ruth Hopkins, Elaina Bear, Diane Sue McCrobie, Ohio serial killer, Cincinnati murders, Tryston Tremaine Vaughn, Catherine Clauzelle Kilpatrick, Drakkor Jamar Alexander, Malcolm Tiree Joubert, Alyssa Nadine Bryant, USPS, postal worker fraud, stolen checks, mail theft, Houston crime, Antoine James, Fagersta Sweden, Brinell School, Liam Nebel, Sweden sword attack, Steven Barton, Aiken High School, sexual battery, Gary Westcott, Louisiana Department of Corrections, Promise of Justice Initiative, overdetention, true crime podcast

• Larry Ralston
• Linda Kay Harmon
• Nancy Grigsby
• Mary Ruth Hopkins
• Elaina Bear
• Diane Sue McCrobie
• Ohio serial murders
• Parole for violent offenders
• Houston postal workers
• Nearly $24 million stolen-check scheme
• Tryston Tremaine Vaughn
• Catherine Clauzelle Kilpatrick
• Drakkor Jamar Alexander
• Malcolm Tiree Joubert
• Alyssa Nadine Bryant
• Antoine James
• Fagersta school attack
• Liam Nebel
• Brinell School
• Steven Barton
• Aiken New Tech High School
• Abuse of positions of trust
• Louisiana overdetention lawsuit
• Gary Westcott
• Prison release dates
• Larry Ralston was convicted in a series of murders and sexual assaults involving young women in Ohio, and families have continued fighting against his release decades later.
• The Houston mail case is even larger than the transcript’s shorthand suggests: the Justice Department says the indictment involves approximately $24 million in stolen checks, with three USPS carriers among the five defendants.
• The accused Swedish school attacker now has a publicly reported name: Liam Nebel. A 17-year-old girl was killed and three boys were wounded in the August 21 sword attack at Brinell School.
• Steven Barton is the correct name of the Aiken assistant principal charged with sexual battery involving a student; “Kyle Stephen Barton” in the transcript was a transcription error.
• Woody’s position on Louisiana’s overdetention problem cuts across the usual tough-on-crime debate: serve the sentence the court imposed—no less, but also no more.
• The episode begins and ends with the same principle that applies to RLRC’s own ongoing cases: credible information has to be investigated carefully, even when waiting for the result is frustrating. 

Our Sponsors:
* Check out BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com
* Check out Progressive: https://www.progressive.com


Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/real-life-real-crime/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

On today’s episode of True Crime Time For, Woody takes listeners through the disturbing story of Carl Eric “Charlie” Brandt, a killer whose known crimes began when he was only 13 years old—and whose true number of victims may never be known.

Woody opens by briefly mentioning the ongoing Lindsay Clancy trial before turning to Brandt, who was born in 1957. In January 1971, 13-year-old Brandt entered a bathroom in his family’s Fort Wayne, Indiana, home and shot his parents with his father’s handgun. His pregnant mother was killed, his father survived, and Brandt then attempted to shoot his older sister before the weapon malfunctioned.

Brandt underwent psychiatric evaluations and spent approximately a year in a psychiatric hospital. He was eventually released back to his family and was never criminally prosecuted for killing his mother. Even more remarkably, Woody explains that Brandt’s younger sisters grew up believing their mother had died in a car accident.

As an adult, Brandt eventually married Teri Helfrich Brandt and settled in Florida. But after his death, investigators would uncover an obsession with human anatomy, surgical imagery, violent material, and female mutilation—evidence that caused detectives to wonder how many women Brandt may actually have killed.

One murder became especially important: Sherry Perisho.

In July 1989, the 38-year-old woman was found near Big Pine Key, Florida. Her throat had been severely cut, her body mutilated, and her heart removed. Her remains were discovered less than 1,000 feet from Brandt’s home. According to the case history Woody discusses, Teri later recalled Brandt returning home around the time of Perisho’s murder with blood on his clothing, which he reportedly attributed to cleaning fish. Investigators eventually concluded that Brandt was responsible for Perisho’s murder.

Then came September 2004.

Brandt and Teri evacuated their Florida Keys home ahead of Hurricane Ivan and stayed with their niece, Michelle Lynn Jones, near Orlando. Days later, a friend checking on Jones discovered Brandt dead by suicide in the garage.

Inside the house, investigators found Teri and Michelle murdered. Teri had been stabbed repeatedly. Michelle had been decapitated and disemboweled, with her heart and other organs removed.

The nature of Michelle’s mutilation immediately raised a frightening question for investigators:

Was this really the first time Charlie Brandt had done something like this?

A search of Brandt’s home revealed extensive material involving anatomy, surgery, autopsies, and violent sexual imagery. Detectives began examining cold cases in areas where Brandt had lived or traveled.

Among the cases Woody discusses are Carol Sullivan, a 12-year-old who disappeared from a Florida school-bus stop in 1978 and whose skull was later recovered; Lisa Saunders, 20, who was murdered on Big Pine Key in 1988; and Darlene Toler, 38, whose mutilated body was found near Miami in 1995.

Investigators considered Brandt in connection with these and other murders, but lacked enough evidence to conclusively attribute them to him.

Brandt is tied to four known killings, but investigators have long suspected there could be considerably more.

Woody then expands the discussion to some of history’s most prolific serial killers.

Luis Garavito — “The Beast”

First is Colombian serial killer Luis Alfredo Garavito Cubillos, better known as Luis Garavito or La Bestia—“The Beast.”

Garavito preyed primarily upon vulnerable boys and young men in Colombia and neighboring countries during the 1990s. He was linked to at least 193 murders, although the true number may have been higher.

Woody discusses the staggering scale of Garavito’s crimes and his disbelief over how a killer responsible for so many children’s deaths could ever have faced the possibility of release.

Garavito died in prison in October 2023.

Mariam Soulakiotis — “Mother Rasputin”

Then Woody heads to Greece for the bizarre story of Mariam Soulakiotis, an abbess sometimes called “Mother Rasputin.”

Soulakiotis operated an abbey where wealthy women and others seeking religious or medical help allegedly surrendered money and property. She was ultimately convicted of murders and numerous other offenses, while authorities attributed many additional deaths to neglect and deprivation at the monastery.

The commonly cited figure of 177 victims includes deaths classified as negligent homicides rather than 177 individually proven intentional murders—an important distinction from the way the number comes across in the transcript. Soulakiotis died in prison in 1954.

Woody uses Brandt, Garavito, and Soulakiotis to discuss a central problem in serial-murder investigations: the number of victims investigators can prove is not necessarily the number of people a killer actually murdered.

But the episode ends on a far more hopeful note.

Modern DNA Is Reopening the Past

Woody celebrates the extraordinary advances in forensic DNA testing and investigative genetic genealogy, which are allowing law enforcement agencies to identify victims and suspects in cases that once appeared impossible to solve.

And one of his examples is breaking news.

The final unidentified victim of Keith Hunter Jesperson, the “Happy Face Killer,” has finally gotten her name back.

She is Lydia Jane Wade McWhorter, a 26-year-old Texas woman whose body was found along Highway 95 near Blythe, California, on August 30, 1992. For decades, investigators knew her only as “Claudia,” the name Jesperson used when discussing her murder.

The Riverside County District Attorney announced on August 27, 2026, that DNA testing had finally confirmed McWhorter’s identity after investigators located a maternal relative. Her sisters had spent decades not knowing what happened after she disappeared from Texas.

Jesperson had already confessed to killing her and pleaded guilty to her murder in 2010. What DNA finally accomplished was something equally important:

It gave Lydia her name back.

Woody also revisits the 45-year-old murder of Yolanda Herrera, whose case was recently solved through advanced DNA analysis and genetic genealogy. Authorities arrested Kelly Lee Brower Sr., 68, in Arizona after DNA linked him to evidence preserved from Herrera’s 1981 autopsy. Authorities say Brower subsequently confessed.

Woody gives additional examples of modern forensic science identifying victims and suspects decades after crimes occurred, emphasizing how much investigative technology has changed since the beginning of his own law-enforcement career.

He closes with one of RLRC’s enduring messages: Never give up. Never surrender.

For families who have waited years—or decades—for answers, advances in DNA mean a cold case does not necessarily have to remain cold forever. And Woody hints again that movement is coming in cases RLRC itself has been working.

True Crime Time For, Real Life Real Crime, Woody Overton, Charlie Brandt, Carl Eric Brandt, Teri Brandt, Teri Helfrich Brandt, Michelle Lynn Jones, Sherry Perisho, Carol Sullivan, Lisa Saunders, Darlene Toler, Florida serial killer, serial killer, Luis Garavito, Luis Alfredo Garavito Cubillos, La Bestia, The Beast, Mariam Soulakiotis, Mother Rasputin, Keith Hunter Jesperson, Happy Face Killer, Lydia Jane Wade McWhorter, Yolanda Herrera, Kelly Lee Brower Sr., investigative genetic genealogy, forensic genealogy, DNA cold case, cold case solved, unidentified victims, true crime podcast

• Carl Eric “Charlie” Brandt
• Murder of Brandt’s pregnant mother
• Teri Helfrich Brandt
• Michelle Lynn Jones
• Sherry Perisho
• Suspected additional Brandt victims
• Carol Sullivan
• Lisa Saunders
• Darlene Toler
• Serial-killer victim counts
• Luis Garavito / La Bestia
• Mariam Soulakiotis / Mother Rasputin
• Investigative genetic genealogy
• Keith Hunter Jesperson
• Happy Face Killer
• Lydia Jane Wade McWhorter identification
• Yolanda Herrera cold case
• Kelly Lee Brower Sr.
• Modern DNA technology
• Cold-case investigations
• Charlie Brandt almost certainly left investigators with unanswered questions. His known history began with the killing of his mother at 13, while the extreme mutilation in his later crimes led investigators to examine numerous unsolved murders.
• A serial killer’s confirmed victim count and actual victim count can be very different. That distinction is central to Woody’s discussion of Brandt and other prolific killers.
• Lydia Jane Wade McWhorter finally has her name back after 34 years. DNA confirmed the identity of the woman investigators had known only as “Claudia,” closing the final unidentified-victim case associated with Keith Hunter Jesperson’s convictions.
• Yolanda Herrera’s case reinforces the same lesson: evidence preserved in 1981 became powerful enough to identify a murder suspect decades later because forensic science finally caught up with the evidence.
• Woody ends on the hopeful side of true crime: technology keeps improving, evidence remains evidence, and families who have waited decades can still get answers.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com
* Check out Progressive: https://www.progressive.com


Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/real-life-real-crime/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

On today’s episode of True Crime Time For, Woody welcomes September and looks ahead to Labor Day weekend while hoping the holiday does not bring the violent crime and mass shootings that so often dominate the news. He reminds listeners that those stories will be covered as they develop before getting into the day’s true crime.

Khalil Wheeler-Weaver and the Murder of Robin West

For On This Day in Crime, Woody looks back to September 1, 2016, and the murder of 19-year-old Robin West, the first known victim of New Jersey serial killer Khalil Wheeler-Weaver.

West was seen getting into Wheeler-Weaver’s vehicle on the night of August 31. Prosecutors said Wheeler-Weaver strangled her, left her body inside an abandoned home in Orange, New Jersey, and set the building on fire. Her remains were so badly burned that identification took approximately two weeks.

Wheeler-Weaver went on to murder Joanne Brown and Sarah Butler and was convicted of kidnapping, sexual assault, and attempted murder in his attack on Tiffany Taylor, who survived. A jury convicted him in 2019, and in 2021 he was sentenced to 160 years in prison, with 145 years required before parole eligibility.

Woody plays audio from Wheeler-Weaver’s sentencing, where victims’ families pleaded with the judge to show the killer no mercy. Despite his convictions, Wheeler-Weaver continued to maintain his innocence.

Woody focuses on what that denial means to the families—and to Taylor, who survived his attack and testified against him.

Nearly 25 Years Later: Where Is Justice for 9/11?

As the anniversary of the September 11 attacks approaches, Woody turns to something he says remains personally difficult for him to discuss: 9/11.

The focus is Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the accused mastermind of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, and the extraordinary length of the military-commission proceedings at Guantánamo Bay.

Woody discusses why the case has dragged on for decades, the complications created by the military-commission system, disputes surrounding statements made during interrogations, previous attempts to reach plea agreements, and the enormous emotional toll the process continues to have on victims’ families.

His central question is simple: How can a case involving one of the deadliest terrorist attacks in American history remain unresolved nearly a quarter-century later?

Family Matters: Meeting His Biological Father Ends in Death

In Family Matters, Woody travels across the pond for the unusual case of Martin Greensmith, who is on trial for manslaughter after an encounter with Stephen Shevels, the man Greensmith had only recently learned was his biological father.

According to the account presented at trial, Greensmith was at a pub with family when his mother identified Shevels as his father. Greensmith said Shevels had never been part of his life and that he had no desire to establish a relationship with him.

The two later encountered one another in the pub’s beer garden. Greensmith testified that he felt intimidated when Shevels approached him and claimed he pushed him only to create distance. Shevels fell, struck his head, and later died from the injury.

Greensmith denies manslaughter and told jurors that he never intended to fight or kill his biological father. The trial was ongoing at the time covered in the episode.

Who Wanted Chicago Mail Carrier Octavia Redmond Dead?

Then Woody covers the disturbing murder of Octavia Redmond, a 48-year-old U.S. Postal Service letter carrier, wife, and mother who was gunned down while working her route on Chicago’s South Side in July 2024.

Redmond was shot multiple times at close range and later died at a hospital.

The investigation eventually expanded beyond the teenage shooter. Prosecutors allege the killing was planned in advance and that Redmond’s mail route had been watched before her murder. Woody discusses the allegations that the teenage gunman was threatened into carrying out the shooting and the still-lingering question at the center of the case:

Why was a mail carrier targeted for murder?

Livingston Parish: A Newborn Killed Minutes After Birth

Woody ends the episode close to home in Livingston Parish, Louisiana, with an extraordinarily difficult case involving a teenage mother and her newborn baby.

According to prosecutors, the girl was only 14 when she gave birth to a full-term, living infant inside her bedroom in 2025. Authorities alleged that she then used a sharp object to inflict fatal injuries to the newborn’s neck and concealed the baby’s body inside a tote in the bedroom.

The state attempted to have the juvenile prosecuted as an adult for first-degree murder, but the transfer was denied because of her age. The teenager was ultimately adjudicated in juvenile court and committed to the custody of Louisiana’s Office of Juvenile Justice until her 21st birthday.

Woody wrestles with whether that outcome constitutes justice for the newborn while also acknowledging that there may be circumstances involving the young mother’s age, development, or mental condition that are not apparent from the basic facts reported publicly.

He also focuses on another group profoundly affected by cases like this: the deputies, detectives, medical personnel, and forensic professionals who must recover and examine the body of a murdered newborn.

Woody closes by telling the Lifers that significant developments are coming in the cases RLRC has been working—particularly What Happened to Madison—and asks listeners for patience: “Just wait.”

True Crime Time For, Real Life Real Crime, Woody Overton, Khalil Wheeler-Weaver, Robin West, Joanne Brown, Sarah Butler, Tiffany Taylor, New Jersey serial killer, dating app killer, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, September 11, 9/11, Guantánamo Bay, military commission, Martin Greensmith, Stephen Shevels, Octavia Redmond, Chicago mail carrier, USPS, postal worker murder, Livingston Parish, Louisiana crime, juvenile murder, newborn murder, juvenile justice, What Happened to Madison, true crime podcast

• Khalil Wheeler-Weaver
• Robin West murder
• Joanne Brown
• Sarah Butler
• Tiffany Taylor
• Dating-app serial killer
• 160-year prison sentence
• September 11 attacks
• Khalid Sheikh Mohammed
• Guantánamo Bay
• Military commissions
• 9/11 victims’ families
• Martin Greensmith
• Stephen Shevels
• Manslaughter trial
• Octavia Redmond
• Chicago postal worker murder
• Planned murder allegations
• Livingston Parish newborn murder
• Juvenile first-degree murder
• Louisiana juvenile justice
• What Happened to Madison
• Khalil Wheeler-Weaver targeted women he believed were vulnerable, but the evidence—and the determination of victims and their loved ones—ultimately helped put him away for what effectively amounts to life.
• Robin West was a person, not simply the first name on a serial killer’s victim list. Her murder began a series of killings that eventually resulted in Wheeler-Weaver’s 160-year sentence.
• The 9/11 military-commission proceedings demonstrate how procedural and constitutional issues can make even an enormously consequential criminal case extraordinarily complicated and prolonged.
• Octavia Redmond’s murder raises an unanswered question: why was a postal worker allegedly surveilled and targeted in a planned killing?
• The Livingston Parish case presents an exceptionally difficult collision between the killing of a newborn and a defendant who was herself only 14 years old when the crime occurred.
• Woody ends September’s first episode with a message for everyone following RLRC’s ongoing investigations: developments are coming, and he will share them when he can.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com
* Check out Progressive: https://www.progressive.com


Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/real-life-real-crime/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

On today’s episode of True Crime Time For, Woody closes out August with one of the most notorious unsolved mass murders in American history: the Villisca Axe Murders of 1912.

Before getting into the case, Woody reminds listeners to continue calling in tips at 313-RLRC-TIP on the cases Real Life Real Crime is working. Because the episode was prerecorded, he also says he is still waiting for developments he hopes he may soon be able to share.

The story begins in Villisca, Iowa, where sometime during the night of June 9 into the early morning of June 10, 1912, eight people were murdered inside the Moore family home.

The victims were Josiah B. “Joe” Moore, 43; his wife, Sarah Montgomery Moore, 39; and their four children: Herman Moore, 11; Mary Katherine Moore, 10; Boyd Moore, 7; and Paul Moore, 5. Also killed were two sisters spending the night with the Moore children: Lena Gertrude Stillinger, 12, and Ina May Stillinger, 8.

The previous evening, the Moore family and the Stillinger girls attended a Children’s Day program at the local Presbyterian church. Sarah Moore helped coordinate the event, and the family returned home around 10 p.m. Sometime after midnight, someone entered the house and used an axe to bludgeon all eight victims to death.

The following morning, neighbor Mary Peckham became concerned when the family failed to begin its usual chores. She contacted Josiah’s brother Ross Moore, who entered the home and discovered the first bodies. Villisca Marshal Henry “Hank” Horton was summoned and found what he later described as someone murdered in every bed.

The crime scene was horrific and bizarre. Investigators believed the killer may have waited inside or near the house until everyone was asleep. An axe belonging to Josiah Moore was found inside the home. Mirrors were covered, victims’ faces were concealed, food and bloody water were reportedly found in the kitchen, and investigators believed at least one victim may have been awake during the attack.

But what happened after the bodies were discovered made an already difficult investigation even worse.

Word of the murders spread rapidly through Villisca, and townspeople began entering the house. Woody describes how the crime scene became hopelessly contaminated as people walked through the rooms, handled items, and even reportedly took pieces of Josiah Moore’s skull as souvenirs. The murder weapon itself was handled by numerous people before authorities gained control of the property.

The situation became so chaotic that the Iowa National Guard was eventually brought in to establish a perimeter around the Moore home. Historical accounts confirm that National Guard troops were used to secure the scene after crowds overwhelmed local authorities.

From there, Woody examines the long list of suspects and theories that developed over the following years.

One of the most prominent was Rev. Lyn George Jacklin Kelly, an English-born traveling minister who had been in Villisca for the Children’s Day services the night of the murders. Kelly drew suspicion because of his fascination with the crime and the detailed letters he later wrote about it. On August 31, 1917, he signed a confession after lengthy interrogation, but later recanted. His first murder trial ended in a hung jury, and he was acquitted at his second trial later that year.

Woody also explores Frank Fernando Jones, a prominent Villisca businessman and former Iowa state senator. Josiah Moore had once worked for Jones before leaving to establish a competing farm-equipment business. Rumors circulated that Jones may have had a motive to want Moore dead, although no evidence ever proved that theory.

Private detective James Wilkerson promoted another theory involving William Mansfield, sometimes referred to in historical accounts as “Blackie” Mansfield. Wilkerson alleged that Jones had hired Mansfield to carry out the killings. Mansfield was arrested, but payroll records placed him in Illinois at the time of the murders, and a grand jury declined to indict him. He was eventually released and later successfully sued Wilkerson.

Other names investigated or discussed over the years included Andrew Sawyer, Henry Lee Moore—a convicted axe murderer who was not related to the Villisca victims—and Samuel Elias Moyer, Josiah Moore’s brother-in-law. None was ever convicted in connection with the murders.

Woody also discusses a much broader serial-killer theory.

In the 2017 book The Man from the Train, authors Bill James and Rachel McCarthy James argued that the Villisca murders may have been part of a larger series of similar family axe murders across the United States. Their theory points toward a German immigrant known as Paul Mueller, or Müller, as a possible serial murderer responsible for multiple attacks. It remains a theory rather than a solved identification.

More than a century later, the Moore home still stands.

The property has been restored to resemble its 1912 condition and operates today as the Villisca Axe Murder House, offering tours and overnight stays. The current attraction openly embraces the home's reputation for alleged paranormal activity.

Woody also recounts stories associated with the house’s haunted reputation, including reports of occupants leaving after allegedly experiencing unexplained events and a 2014 incident in which a paranormal investigator suffered a self-inflicted stab wound while staying overnight at the property.

Ultimately, Woody comes back to the investigation itself.

Eight people—including six children—were murdered with an axe in a small Iowa town in 1912. The crime scene was overwhelmed by curious residents. Physical evidence was handled repeatedly. Modern forensic tools did not exist. Suspects came and went, confessions were made and withdrawn, and competing theories multiplied.

More than 114 years later, no one has ever been convicted of the Villisca Axe Murders.

Woody closes by reflecting on how violence, victim posing, and attempts by killers to conceal or psychologically distance themselves from their crimes are not modern phenomena. Cases from more than a century ago contain disturbing behaviors that investigators still encounter today.

True Crime Time For, Real Life Real Crime, Woody Overton, Villisca Axe Murders, Villisca Iowa, Josiah Moore, Sarah Moore, Herman Moore, Mary Katherine Moore, Boyd Moore, Paul Moore, Lena Stillinger, Ina Stillinger, Lyn George Jacklin Kelly, George Kelly, Frank Fernando Jones, William Mansfield, Henry Lee Moore, Andrew Sawyer, Samuel Elias Moyer, Paul Mueller, Bill James, Rachel McCarthy James, The Man from the Train, unsolved murder, axe murder, mass murder, cold case, haunted house, Villisca Axe Murder House, true crime podcast

• Villisca Axe Murders
• Moore family murders
• Stillinger sisters
• 1912 Iowa mass murder
• Contaminated crime scene
• National Guard securing the murder house
• Rev. Lyn George Jacklin Kelly
• 1917 confession
• Hung jury and acquittal
• Frank Fernando Jones
• William Mansfield
• James Wilkerson
• Henry Lee Moore
• Andrew Sawyer
• Samuel Elias Moyer
• Paul Mueller serial-killer theory
• The Man from the Train
• Villisca Axe Murder House
• Paranormal claims
• Unsolved historic crimes

• The Villisca investigation was compromised almost immediately. Townspeople flooded the home, evidence was handled, and the scene was so uncontrolled that the National Guard was eventually used to secure it.
• Rev. Lyn George Jacklin Kelly remains one of the case’s most famous suspects, largely because he confessed on August 31, 1917—but he recanted, his first trial ended with a hung jury, and his second ended in acquittal.
• There has never been a proven killer. Numerous suspects and serial-killer theories have emerged, but the murders officially remain unsolved.
• The case demonstrates how dramatically forensic investigation has changed. What investigators today would treat as a tightly controlled crime scene became a gathering place for townspeople in 1912.
• More than a century later, the murder house itself has become part of the story, operating as a historical and paranormal tourism destination.

Name verification completed for this episode: the correct place is Villisca, the victims are Josiah B. “Joe” Moore, Sarah Montgomery Moore, Herman Moore, Mary Katherine Moore, Boyd Moore, Paul Moore, Lena Gertrude Stillinger, and Ina May Stillinger, and the minister’s fuller name is Rev. Lyn George Jacklin Kelly. I also checked Frank Fernando Jones, William Mansfield, Andrew Sawyer, Henry Lee Moore, Samuel Elias Moyer, Bill James, Rachel McCarthy James, and Paul Mueller before using them here. 

Our Sponsors:
* Check out BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com
* Check out Progressive: https://www.progressive.com


Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/real-life-real-crime/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

On today’s episode of True Crime Time For, Woody opens with the 1994 murders of the Hodges family in Vinton, Virginia. William Blaine Hodges, Teresa Lynn Fulcher Hodges, 11-year-old Winter Ashley Hodges, and 3-year-old Anah Michelle Hodges were found dead inside their burning home. Teresa had been strangled, while Blaine, Winter, and Anah had been shot. Family friend Earl Conrad Bramblett was later convicted and executed for the murders.

Woody then heads to New Hampshire, where Nestor Roman II is accused of stealing a rescue truck while firefighters were battling a blaze at his own home. Authorities say Roman drove through the active emergency scene, nearly struck firefighters, ran over charged fire hoses, damaged vehicles and property, crashed the stolen rescue truck several miles away, and was later taken into custody.

In F’d Up Professionals, Woody covers the case of Green Bay Packers running back Josh Jacobs, who has been charged with misdemeanor battery and criminal damage to property stemming from an alleged domestic incident with his ex-girlfriend. Prosecutors say surveillance footage recovered from Jacobs’ garage corroborates key parts of her account, including allegations that he grabbed her, threw her to the ground, took her phone, and later damaged it. The Packers and NFL are monitoring the case.

The episode then turns to one of the most damaging kinds of misconduct in law enforcement: a dirty cop whose lies can unravel years of cases.

Woody discusses Byron Prophet, who spent nearly six years in prison after Houston narcotics officer Gerald Goines testified against him in a 2008 drug case. Prophet maintained that he had never entered the house where drugs were found and that Goines fabricated key details. Years later, scrutiny following the deadly 2019 Harding Street raid exposed Goines’ history of falsifying evidence and search-warrant information. Prophet’s convictions were vacated in 2024, and he has now filed a federal civil-rights lawsuit against Goines, other officers, and the City of Houston.

Woody uses the story to explain why police corruption damages far more than a single case. Once an officer is proven dishonest, every conviction tied to that officer can come under scrutiny, including cases where the defendant may actually have been guilty.

Then comes a bizarre F’d Up Professional story out of Albany, New York. Tim Walters, a longtime head custodian at Hackett Middle School, was discovered to have been living inside the school for more than six months. Walters had moved beds, a refrigerator, and other belongings into a storage area and even brought his four children there on weekends. School officials stumbled onto the arrangement while reviewing security footage during an investigation into overtime claims by other employees. Walters ultimately resigned.

Finally, Woody returns to Bryan Kohberger, who pleaded guilty to murdering Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin.

Kohberger is now attempting to withdraw that guilty plea, alleging ineffective assistance of counsel, coercion, and misinformation about the evidence and death-row conditions. Judge Steven Hippler has scheduled a status conference and potential evidentiary hearing for June 2027. Kohberger had waived his right to appeal as part of the plea agreement that spared him the death penalty.

Woody’s position is straightforward: if Kohberger truly wants the plea undone, then the entire case should reopen—including the possibility of the death penalty.

He closes by reminding listeners to stay patient with the RLRC cases currently being worked and promises to update the Lifers as soon as he can share new developments.

True Crime Time For, Real Life Real Crime, Woody Overton, Earl Conrad Bramblett, Blaine Hodges, Teresa Hodges, Winter Hodges, Anah Hodges, Nestor Roman II, Josh Jacobs, Green Bay Packers, domestic battery, Byron Prophet, Gerald Goines, Houston Police Department, wrongful conviction, police corruption, Harding Street raid, Tim Walters, Hackett Middle School, Bryan Kohberger, Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle, Ethan Chapin, Idaho murders, true crime podcast

• Hodges family murders
• Earl Conrad Bramblett
• Nestor Roman II
• Fire-rescue truck theft
• Josh Jacobs
• NFL Personal Conduct Policy
• Domestic battery allegations
• Garage surveillance footage
• Byron Prophet
• Gerald Goines
• Houston narcotics scandal
• Wrongful convictions
• Police fabrication of evidence
• Harding Street raid
• Tim Walters
• Custodian living inside school
• Bryan Kohberger
• Guilty-plea challenge
• Ineffective-assistance claim
• Possible renewed death-penalty exposure

• The Hodges case is another reminder that attempts to destroy evidence—such as setting a crime scene on fire—do not guarantee a killer will escape accountability.
• Surveillance footage can become decisive evidence, as seen in the Josh Jacobs case and in the discovery of the Albany custodian living inside a school.
• Police dishonesty can contaminate an enormous number of cases. Gerald Goines’ misconduct led to renewed scrutiny of convictions stretching back years and helped overturn Byron Prophet’s case.
• Kohberger’s attempt to withdraw his plea faces a significant legal hurdle because he entered the plea in open court and waived appellate rights as part of the agreement.
• Woody’s broader message remains consistent: whether the accused is a celebrity, a police officer, or an ordinary citizen, the evidence has to be followed and the job has to be done right.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com
* Check out Progressive: https://www.progressive.com


Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/real-life-real-crime/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

On today’s episode of True Crime Time For, Woody opens with updates on Justice for Hailey and What Happened to Madison. Hailey’s case remains under review, while Woody says the Madison investigation is still moving forward and asks listeners to continue sending information to 313-RLRC-TIP.

For On This Day in Crime, Woody remembers Emmett Till, the 14-year-old Black teenager who was brutally murdered in Mississippi in 1955. Roy Bryant and J. W. Milam were charged with the murder, acquitted by an all-white jury, and later publicly admitted killing Till. Woody reflects on the racism surrounding the case and the importance of remembering that history.

Woody then turns to convicted British murderer John Sweeney, known as the “Scalp Hunter”, who died in prison without ever answering whether he had additional victims. Sweeney was serving a whole-life sentence for the murders of former girlfriends Melissa Halstead and Paula Fields, whose dismembered remains were found years apart in canals in the Netherlands and England. Police also investigated him in connection with other missing women. His former girlfriend Delia Balmer survived a violent axe attack by Sweeney and later wrote about her experience.

Next, Woody covers the murder of Star-Michael Tucker and the life sentence imposed on Charles Carson-Dowdy. Prosecutors said Tucker tried to end their relationship, after which Carson-Dowdy traveled from Alabama to Pensacola, broke into her apartment, waited for her, shot her repeatedly, and then ran over her body multiple times with her own vehicle.

In Family Matters, Woody heads to Indiana, where Adriana Velasquez is accused of intentionally driving her Honda into her husband as he left a divorce hearing on a motorcycle. Police say she struck and dragged him, then got out of the vehicle with a knife and stabbed him in the arm. She now faces attempted murder and additional charges.

Then it’s F’d Up Professionals. A Nebraska police captain and her partner are accused of leaving their two-year-old daughter alone inside a locked minivan while they went fishing. Another couple heard the child crying and called 911. The toddler was reportedly left inside for at least 28 minutes but was not injured.

Woody also covers an Indiana case involving Amy Fuller, who is accused of repeatedly striking a child in the head in a church parking lot after the child asked her for water. Witnesses told police the child was hit several times, and doctors later documented a large lump on the back of the child’s head.

Then comes one of the most satisfying stories of the episode: a 45-year-old cold case finally gets an answer.

Twenty-three-year-old Yolanda Herrera disappeared after leaving a bar in Universal City, Texas, in April 1981. Two days later, children walking to school discovered her body. Investigators preserved DNA evidence, but for decades they had no suspect.

Advances in forensic genetic genealogy eventually led investigators to Kelly Lee Brower Sr. in Arizona. Authorities say Brower’s DNA matched evidence from Herrera’s autopsy and that he subsequently confessed to the murder. Woody celebrates the detectives who refused to give up on the case—even though some of the investigators working it today were not yet born when Yolanda was killed.

Woody also discusses the massive Feeding Our Future pandemic-fraud investigation. The scheme involved federal money that was supposed to provide meals for children during the pandemic but was instead allegedly diverted through fake meal sites, fabricated records, kickbacks, and personal purchases. Aimee Bock, the founder of Feeding Our Future, was identified in the episode as the central figure in the broader fraud scheme.

Finally, Woody turns to Bryan Kohberger, who pleaded guilty to murdering four University of Idaho students—Madison Mogen, Kaylee Goncalves, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin—and avoided the death penalty as part of his plea agreement.

Kohberger is now seeking post-conviction relief and has been granted new counsel. Woody discusses the extraordinarily high bar Kohberger faces after pleading guilty in open court and acknowledging that he understood the agreement. He also focuses on what renewed litigation means for the victims’ families, who are again forced to watch the case return to the spotlight.

Woody’s view is simple: if Kohberger wants the case reopened, then reopen all of it—including the possibility of the death penalty.

He closes by thanking everyone for listening, sharing, and supporting True Crime Time For, and wishes the Lifers a safe weekend.

True Crime Time For, Real Life Real Crime, Woody Overton, Justice for Hailey, What Happened to Madison, Emmett Till, Roy Bryant, J. W. Milam, John Sweeney, Scalp Hunter, Melissa Halstead, Paula Fields, Delia Balmer, Charles Carson-Dowdy, Star-Michael Tucker, Adriana Velasquez, Amy Fuller, Yolanda Herrera, Kelly Lee Brower Sr., forensic genetic genealogy, cold case, Feeding Our Future, Aimee Bock, Bryan Kohberger, Madison Mogen, Kaylee Goncalves, Xana Kernodle, Ethan Chapin, true crime podcast

• Justice for Hailey
• What Happened to Madison
• Emmett Till
• John Sweeney / Scalp Hunter
• Melissa Halstead
• Paula Fields
• Delia Balmer
• Charles Carson-Dowdy
• Star-Michael Tucker murder
• Domestic violence
• Adriana Velasquez
• Divorce-hearing attack
• Nebraska hot-car child neglect case
• Amy Fuller
• Child abuse allegations
• Yolanda Herrera cold case
• Kelly Lee Brower Sr.
• Forensic genetic genealogy
• Feeding Our Future
• Aimee Bock
• Bryan Kohberger
• University of Idaho murders
• Post-conviction relief

• John Sweeney died with unanswered questions, leaving open the possibility that other victims may never be identified.
• Domestic violence is a major theme throughout the episode, from Star-Michael Tucker’s murder to the alleged attack following an Indiana divorce hearing.
• Yolanda Herrera’s case proves cold does not mean unsolvable. Forty-five years later, forensic genetic genealogy provided investigators with the lead they needed.
• The Feeding Our Future case shows how programs created to help vulnerable children can themselves become targets for large-scale fraud.
• Bryan Kohberger’s latest legal move affects more than the defendant. Each new filing can force the victims’ families back into the case and the public spotlight.
• RLRC’s ongoing message remains the same: keep submitting information in What Happened to Madison and keep waiting for the review in Justice for Hailey. 

Our Sponsors:
* Check out BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com
* Check out Progressive: https://www.progressive.com


Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/real-life-real-crime/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

On today’s episode of True Crime Time For, Woody opens with another message for everyone following What Happened to Madison: hang on. Because the episode was recorded a day early, he still can’t reveal what he believes is coming, but promises the Lifers will hear about any break in the case as soon as he can share it.

For On This Day in Crime, Woody looks back at Edmund “Ed” Kemper, the infamous Co-Ed Killer, who committed his first murders in 1964 when he killed his grandparents, Edmund Emil Kemper Sr. and Maude Matilda Kemper. Kemper would later murder six more women, including his mother and her friend, before surrendering to authorities.

Then it’s F’d Up Professionals, and Woody turns to the arrest of San Francisco 49ers principal owner Jed York in East Palestine, Ohio. York was arrested after allegedly responding to an undercover prostitution advertisement. He later pleaded no contest to misdemeanor charges of disorderly conduct and possessing criminal tools. Court records show the original prostitution-related charge was amended, and York was fined $1,150.

The episode then moves into a case that hits several familiar RLRC themes at once. Jeremy Perrin, a Missouri fire chief, reserve deputy sheriff, and assistant coroner, has been charged in connection with the 2025 shooting death of his wife, Shelby Kessler Perrin. Her death was initially reported as a possible self-inflicted gunshot wound after Jeremy allegedly told investigators she pulled a gun from the center console and shot herself while he was driving on Interstate 55.

But investigators kept digging. According to the case described in the episode, they discovered video hidden on Shelby’s phone that allegedly showed Jeremy striking, choking, and threatening her. Investigators also recovered an earlier message in which Jeremy allegedly warned that his escalating rage could ultimately leave Shelby needing a “body bag.” Because of Jeremy’s positions within local public-safety agencies, the investigation was turned over to the Missouri State Highway Patrol. He now faces charges including second-degree murder, domestic assault, harassment, and tampering with physical evidence.

Next, Woody stays close to home with a domestic violence case in East Feliciana Parish, Louisiana involving two people connected to the local criminal justice system. Shelby Nelson, who works for the 20th Judicial District Attorney’s Office, and her husband, David Nelson, a Slaughter police officer and part-time Jackson marshal, were both arrested following a domestic dispute. Video recorded by their son allegedly captured part of the altercation, while Shelby told investigators that the video did not show the full context and alleged that her husband had also assaulted and choked her. Both were booked on misdemeanor domestic-abuse charges.

Then it’s Planes, Trains and Automobiles in San Antonio, where 25-year-old Brandon Christopher Figueroa allegedly fled a Texas Department of Public Safety traffic stop, led troopers on a high-speed pursuit, crashed through a gate, and ended up on a runway at San Antonio International Airport. Troopers took him into custody at gunpoint and allegedly discovered a firearm in the vehicle.

The final portion of the episode takes a much more serious turn as Woody examines the case of Tyrone Noling, who has spent roughly three decades on Ohio’s death row while maintaining that he did not murder elderly couple Bearnhardt and Cora Hartig in 1990.

Noling was convicted after other young men implicated him, but those witnesses later recanted. No physical evidence tied Noling to the murders, the murder weapon was never recovered, and evidence developed since his conviction has pointed toward other potential suspects. The Ohio Innocence Project has been assisting him, and former Portage County Sheriff Ken Howe has publicly said he now believes Noling is innocent. Noling appeared before the Ohio Parole Board on August 18 seeking a full pardon from Governor Mike DeWine.

The case sends Woody into a larger discussion about the death penalty and one of its most difficult questions: what happens when the justice system gets it wrong? He discusses wrongful death sentences, recanted testimony, DNA evidence, aging prisoners, failed executions, mental competency, and the reality that some people sentenced to death have later been exonerated.

Woody closes by reminding listeners why investigations—even frustratingly slow ones—have to be done correctly. Every new tip creates another lead that investigators may need to follow, and that takes time. His message remains the same: get it one time and get it right, because justice is justice.

True Crime Time For, Real Life Real Crime, Woody Overton, What Happened to Madison, Ed Kemper, Co-Ed Killer, Jed York, San Francisco 49ers, Jeremy Perrin, Shelby Kessler Perrin, Missouri murder, staged suicide, domestic violence, Shelby Nelson, David Nelson, East Feliciana Parish, Slaughter Louisiana, Brandon Christopher Figueroa, San Antonio International Airport, Tyrone Noling, Bearnhardt Hartig, Cora Hartig, Ohio Innocence Project, death row, wrongful conviction, death penalty, true crime podcast

• What Happened to Madison
• Ed Kemper and his first murders
• Jed York arrest
• NFL Personal Conduct Policy
• Jeremy Perrin
• Shelby Kessler Perrin
• Death initially reported as suicide
• Domestic violence evidence
• Hidden video evidence
• Missouri State Highway Patrol investigation
• Shelby and David Nelson
• East Feliciana Parish domestic violence arrests
• San Antonio airport pursuit
• Brandon Christopher Figueroa
• Tyrone Noling
• Bearnhardt and Cora Hartig murders
• Ohio Innocence Project
• Recanted witness testimony
• Death-row clemency
• Wrongful convictions
• Problems surrounding executions
• Importance of thoroughly investigating tips

This episode has a strong recurring theme: the first explanation for a death is not necessarily the correct one. In Shelby Kessler Perrin’s case, investigators continued working after her death was initially presented as possibly self-inflicted and uncovered evidence that ultimately led to her husband being charged.

The episode also reinforces that professional status does not place anyone above the law. Several of today’s stories involve people connected to professional sports, law enforcement, prosecution, fire service, or the coroner system.

Tyrone Noling’s case presents the opposite side of justice—the danger of convicting and potentially executing an innocent person. His effort for a full pardon is supported by recanted witness statements, the absence of physical evidence tying him to the murders, and concerns raised by a former county sheriff.

And Woody closes with an important point for everyone waiting impatiently for movement in RLRC’s cases: tips can make an investigation take longer because every credible lead has to be investigated—and that is exactly what should happen. Get it once. Get it right.

Name check completed: I verified Jed York, Jeremy Perrin, Shelby Kessler Perrin, Tyrone Noling, and Bearnhardt and Cora Hartig rather than carrying over the transcript’s phonetic/misspelled versions. 

Our Sponsors:
* Check out BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com
* Check out Progressive: https://www.progressive.com


Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/real-life-real-crime/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

On today’s episode of True Crime Time, Woody opens with anticipation that a major development may finally be breaking in one of the cases the Real Life Real Crime community has been fighting for. Because this episode was recorded two days early, he can’t say exactly what has happened yet—but he tells the Lifers he hopes they’ve already heard the news by the time this episode drops. Woody also continues the call for What Happened to Madison, Justice for Hailey, Justice for Barbara Blount, and justice for every family still searching for answers.

For On This Day in Crime, Woody goes back to August 26, 1980, and the incredible bombing of Harvey’s Resort Hotel, where men posing as delivery workers rolled what appeared to be a copy machine into the hotel. Inside was an elaborate bomb containing approximately 1,000 pounds of dynamite and a ransom demand for $3 million. Attempts to disarm the device triggered an explosion that destroyed five stories of the hotel.

Then Woody shares a reminder that law enforcement’s responsibility doesn’t end when a suspect runs. In Texas, deputies pursued a 53-year-old theft suspect who fled from a Walmart, crashed his vehicle, and became trapped as the car burst into flames. The same deputies he had just run from risked their own lives to pull him from the burning vehicle before it exploded.

Next, one of Tennessee’s Most Wanted fugitives is captured in Georgia. Kenneth Spruell, wanted in connection with an alleged violent home invasion and attempted murder, was taken into custody after cooperation among Tennessee authorities, Fulton County deputies, federal task forces, and other agencies.

Woody then turns to a controversial juvenile murder sentence out of Washington. Caleb Prince Tramble, who was 15 at the time of the crime, pleaded guilty to second-degree murder after video allegedly showed him and another teenager confronting Messiah Washington inside an apartment elevator. The other teen opened fire, and prosecutors say Tramble then pulled his own gun and pointed it at the already-wounded victim. Woody questions the decision to keep Tramble in the juvenile system until age 25 and whether the sentence adequately recognizes the young man who lost his life.

In Family Matters, a Connecticut father faces criminal charges after his one-year-old son died after being left inside a pickup truck at the family’s strawberry farm. The father told police the baby had fallen asleep, that he left the air conditioning running, and that he was working when he later returned to find his child blue and unresponsive. Woody discusses the tragedy while questioning the $1 million bond and distinguishing the circumstances from other hot-car deaths the show has covered.

Then comes a case Woody simply cannot understand. A Virginia man who was found not guilty by reason of insanity in a murder case was housed at a state mental-health facility—but was later permitted a 48-hour unsupervised community release. Instead of returning, authorities say he boarded an international flight and fled the United States. Woody walks through the decisions that allowed the man to obtain a passport, leave the facility unsupervised, and ultimately escape overseas.

Finally, Woody examines the death of 37-year-old Lindsay Barnett in Colorado. Her husband, Patrick Theodore “Ted” Barnett, reportedly called 911 and claimed he found Lindsay dead in the shower with her throat cut and a knife nearby, suggesting she had taken her own life.

But investigators say the physical evidence told a very different story.

Police reportedly found substantial blood in the bedroom, a trail of blood leading toward the bathroom, numerous injuries on Lindsay’s body, and what appeared to be a defensive wound. Investigators also learned Ted had been involved with another woman despite initially denying infidelity. During questioning, detectives documented inconsistencies in his account and blood on his face, neck, beard, and behind his ear that he allegedly could not explain.

Ted Barnett was arrested for first-degree murder and is being held without bond. The case leads Woody back to a theme that has become especially important to Justice for Hailey: when someone claims a death was suicide, investigators still have to follow the physical evidence. If the scene doesn’t fit the story, keep investigating.

True Crime Time, Real Life Real Crime, Woody Overton, What Happened to Madison, Justice for Hailey, Barbara Blount, Harvey’s Resort bombing, police pursuit, burning car rescue, Kenneth Spruell, Tennessee Most Wanted, Caleb Prince Tramble, Messiah Washington, juvenile murder, hot car death, child death, insanity defense, mental hospital escape, Lindsay Barnett, Ted Barnett, staged suicide, forensic evidence, Colorado murder, true crime podcast

• What Happened to Madison
• Justice for Hailey
• Justice for Barbara Blount
• Harvey’s Resort Hotel bombing
• Deputies rescue fleeing suspect
• Police pursuits and officer responsibility
• Tennessee Most Wanted capture
• Kenneth Spruell
• Caleb Prince Tramble
• Messiah Washington murder
• Juvenile sentencing
• Child left in vehicle
• Connecticut strawberry farm tragedy
• Not guilty by reason of insanity
• Unsupervised mental-health release
• International escape
• Lindsay Barnett homicide
• Alleged staged suicide
• Blood evidence and defensive injuries
• Inconsistent statements
• Infidelity uncovered during investigation
• Law enforcement’s responsibility changes instantly from pursuit to rescue when a suspect’s life is in danger. The Texas deputies went from chasing a fleeing theft suspect to risking their own safety to pull him from a burning vehicle.
• Juvenile sentencing requires balancing rehabilitation with accountability—and Woody questions whether the victim can become lost in that discussion.
• The Virginia case raises serious questions about how someone found not guilty of murder by reason of insanity, and still considered in need of inpatient hospitalization, was permitted an unsupervised release that allowed him to leave the country.
• Crime scenes have to speak louder than stories. Investigators in Lindsay Barnett’s death reportedly found physical evidence inconsistent with the claim that she took her own life.
• Woody begins this episode hoping the Lifers may finally be hearing the news they’ve been waiting for in one of RLRC’s Justice For cases: keep fighting, keep sharing information, and never give up.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com
* Check out Progressive: https://www.progressive.com


Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/real-life-real-crime/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

On today’s episode of True Crime Time, Woody opens with updates on What Happened to Madison, Justice for Barbara Blount, and Justice for Hailey, saying he knows movement is coming and hopes this is the week. He reminds listeners that the Georgia oversight review in Hailey’s case is still pending and promises to update the Lifers as soon as there is something he can share.

For On This Day in Crime, Woody looks back at several major historical cases, including the 1913 conviction of Leo Frank, the 1967 assassination of American Nazi Party founder George Lincoln Rockwell, the escalation of the St. Bartholomew’s Day Massacre, a deadly 1927 Florida law-enforcement shootout, and a landmark Canadian murder prosecution involving Inuit defendant Nulakock.

In F’d Up Professionals, Woody covers the arrest of Hollywood actor, director, and producer Shane Ryan Gledhill, also known professionally as Shane Ryan or Shane Ryan-Reed, who now faces 24 felony charges tied to allegations of child sexual abuse and exploitation. Investigators say he allegedly used casting calls and filmmaking projects to gain access to underage victims, and detectives believe his conduct may have spanned decades.

Then it’s Family Matters, where Woody tells the bizarre story of a Florida woman accused of biting off part of her husband’s ear during an argument while he was driving on the interstate with their two children in the car. The husband required surgery, and investigators ultimately identified the wife as the primary aggressor.

Woody also covers the guilty plea of former University of Kentucky cheerleader Laken Snelling, who admitted to manslaughter in the death of her newborn son after previously giving investigators multiple different explanations for what happened. Prosecutors are recommending a prison sentence that Woody says is far too lenient for the death of a baby who was born alive.

Another devastating case comes from Wisconsin, where a mother admitted that she turned music up louder to drown out the cries of her four-year-old son while her boyfriend allegedly beat him. The child later died, and investigators say the abuse was extensive.

In North Dakota, a 22-year-old mother faces murder and attempted murder charges after authorities say two of her young children died and a third was seriously injured. According to court documents, she allegedly threatened the children’s father before officers entered the home and found the children unresponsive.

Woody closes on a lighter note with a Tennessee middle-school football game where a 16-year-old girl ran out of the stands and leveled a player on the field, leading to her arrest and lifetime ban from the school system’s properties. That sends Woody into a side discussion about girls playing football, including the story of Hannah Mouton, a Louisiana high-school player who moved from kicker to wide receiver and even caught a touchdown pass.

Before signing off, Woody again tells the Lifers to hold on in the Madison case, saying he believes something is coming soon and that the community’s persistence has mattered.

True Crime Time, Real Life Real Crime, Woody Overton, What Happened to Madison, Justice for Hailey, Barbara Blount, Shane Ryan Gledhill, Shane Ryan Reed, Hollywood child abuse, casting call abuse, Florida domestic violence, ear biting, Laken Snelling, newborn death, child abuse, Wisconsin child murder, North Dakota family violence, middle school football, Hannah Mouton, true crime podcast

• What Happened to Madison update
• Justice for Barbara Blount
• Justice for Hailey
• Leo Frank
• George Lincoln Rockwell
• St. Bartholomew’s Day Massacre
• Shane Ryan Gledhill investigation
• Hollywood casting-call abuse allegations
• Child sexual exploitation
• Florida domestic violence incident
• Laken Snelling guilty plea
• Newborn manslaughter case
• Wisconsin child abuse death
• North Dakota child murders
• Middle-school football assault
• Girls playing football
• Woody again emphasizes that justice cases often move slowly, but persistence matters, especially in Madison, Hailey, and Barbara Blount’s cases.
• Positions of authority and access, including entertainment and casting environments, can be exploited by predators, which is why reporting and survivor testimony are so important.
• Family violence can escalate in shocking and unpredictable ways, and children are often the most vulnerable people caught in the middle.
• The Wisconsin and North Dakota cases underscore how devastating it can be when adults fail to protect children from abuse or become the source of that danger themselves.
• The final football story gives the episode a rare lighter ending, with Woody reflecting on how much girls’ participation in traditionally male sports has changed over time.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com
* Check out Progressive: https://www.progressive.com


Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/real-life-real-crime/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

On today’s episode of True Crime Time, Cyndi takes over the mic and begins with a thank-you to the Lifers—and a reminder of just how much the Real Life Real Crime community means to the people who trust Woody with their stories. After spending Saturday at Guardian Day at Firman Ranch, Cyndi talks about meeting listeners and seeing firsthand how many people approach Woody looking for help, hope, or simply a chance to say thank you.

Cyndi also shares the meaning behind Guardian Day, an annual fundraiser supporting first responders and their families throughout the greater Baton Rouge area. She recounts Cy Daquila’s emotional story of the first responders who entered his burning home in the middle of the night and woke his family, allowing Si, his wife Heather, their twins, and their older children to escape. At Saturday’s event, Si was able to publicly recognize and thank the first responders who helped save his family.

Then it’s time for true crime.

Cyndi starts locally with a story involving a Louisiana institution familiar to generations of Livingston Parish residents: Navarre’s Pastries in Springfield. Known throughout the area for its donuts and especially its famous king cakes, the Navarre family’s bakery history stretches back decades. Cyndi explains how the business grew from Ernie Navarre Jr.’s small donut shop into an operation whose king cakes have been shipped around the country and world, including orders from businesses, celebrities, politicians, and other high-profile customers.

But on August 12, authorities executed a search warrant at Navarre’s Pastries. According to the Livingston Parish Sheriff’s Office, investigators uncovered what Sheriff Jason Ard described as a distribution hub for various narcotics. Authorities reported seizing suspected cocaine, MDMA, Adderall, Vyvanse, Xanax, Valium, anabolic steroids, cash, and 52 firearms, including one reportedly stolen weapon.

Jules Navarre, one of Ernie Navarre’s sons, was arrested and reportedly faces 62 charges, including numerous firearm-related counts and possession-with-intent-to-distribute allegations. Cyndi also explains what remains unknown: publicly available information has not yet revealed what initially led investigators to the bakery or whether the case began with a tip, surveillance, another investigation, or some other source. She stresses that she found nothing indicating other members of the Navarre family were involved and reminds listeners that Jules Navarre is presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty.

Then Cyndi returns to the crime that happened on this day in 1985 and takes listeners inside the terrifying story of Richard Ramirez—the Night Stalker.

Beginning with Ramirez’s childhood in El Paso, Texas, Cyndi examines the violence, head injuries, drug use, and disturbing influences that surrounded his early years—including his older cousin Mike, a Vietnam veteran who reportedly showed the young Ramirez graphic photographs of violence and told him stories of rape, torture, and killing. At 13, Ramirez then witnessed Mike shoot and kill his wife directly in front of him. Cyndi is careful to make an important distinction: childhood trauma and brain injuries do not turn someone into a serial killer, and none of Ramirez’s experiences excuse the choices and horrific crimes that followed.

By the mid-1980s, California was terrified. Ramirez invaded homes, murdered, sexually assaulted, burglarized, and attacked victims with no easily identifiable pattern. Men, women, young people, elderly people, individuals and couples could all become targets. Even his methods varied, making the Night Stalker particularly difficult for investigators to profile.

Investigators Frank Salerno and Gil Carrillo began connecting seemingly unrelated attacks through ballistics, survivor descriptions, and distinctive shoe impressions. But a major break finally came after an observant 13-year-old boy named James Romero III noticed a suspicious man outside his family’s home on August 24, 1985. James woke his parents, remembered the orange Toyota station wagon the man was driving, and—critically—remembered identifying information from its license plate.

Police eventually located the abandoned vehicle and recovered a fingerprint. That print finally gave the Night Stalker a name: Richard Ramirez. Authorities released his photograph to the public, and when Ramirez returned to Los Angeles, something remarkable happened—the community recognized him. Residents chased him through East Los Angeles, tackled him, and held him until police arrived. The man who had spent months hunting other people suddenly found an entire neighborhood hunting him.

Ramirez was ultimately convicted of 13 murders, five attempted murders, 11 sexual assaults, and 14 burglaries and sentenced to death. He was never executed and died from complications associated with B-cell lymphoma in 2013.

But Cyndi ends the story where it began—with James Romero III.

He didn’t know he was looking at one of the most wanted serial killers in America. He simply knew something wasn’t right. He paid attention. He remembered the car. He remembered the license plate. He told his parents, and they listened.

That one observation helped investigators find the vehicle. The vehicle gave them the fingerprint. The fingerprint gave them Richard Ramirez.

It’s the perfect real-world example of why Woody says it every day:

TIP. TIP. TIP.

You may have no idea how important the small thing you noticed could ultimately become.

True Crime Time, Real Life Real Crime, Cyndi Overton, Woody Overton, Richard Ramirez, Night Stalker, James Romero III, Frank Salerno, Gil Carrillo, California serial killer, Navarre’s Pastries, Navarre’s Bakery, Jules Navarre, Livingston Parish, Springfield Louisiana, drug bust, narcotics investigation, king cake, Guardian Day, Furman Ranch, Cy Daquila, first responders, 313 RLRC TIP, true crime podcast

• Guardian Day at Furman Ranch
• Cy Daquila and first responders
• Navarre’s Pastries and its Louisiana history
• Navarre’s famous king cakes
• August 12 search warrant
• Jules Navarre arrest
• 62 reported charges
• Narcotics and firearms seized
• Unanswered questions surrounding the investigation
• Presumption of innocence
• Richard Ramirez
• The Night Stalker murders
• Ramirez’s childhood and early influences
• Frank Salerno and Gil Carrillo
• Night Stalker investigation
• Avia shoe-print evidence
• James Romero III
• Orange Toyota station wagon
• Fingerprint identification
• East Los Angeles community capture
• Importance of submitting tips
• The Navarre’s investigation is still developing. Cyndi makes an important distinction between what authorities have publicly alleged and the questions that remain unanswered, while also noting she found nothing connecting other members of the Navarre family to the alleged activity.
• Understanding Ramirez’s childhood provides context, not an excuse. Millions of people survive trauma, abuse, or head injuries without becoming violent offenders.
• The Night Stalker investigation shows how individual pieces of evidence that may seem small—survivor descriptions, ballistics, shoe impressions, a vehicle and finally a fingerprint—can combine to solve an enormous case.
• James Romero III’s actions are the heart of this episode. At only 13, he noticed something suspicious, remembered what he saw, told his parents, and his parents took him seriously. That information helped lead police to the vehicle containing the fingerprint that identified Ramirez.
• It perfectly reinforces one of Real Life Real Crime’s most important messages: never assume your information is too small to matter. Tip. Tip. Tip.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com
* Check out Progressive: https://www.progressive.com


Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/real-life-real-crime/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

On today’s episode of True Crime Time, Woody opens with a message the Lifers have been waiting to hear: justice is coming. While he cannot yet reveal which case or exactly what is happening, Woody says he has received confirmation that a major step forward is coming in one of the cases the Real Life Real Crime community has helped fight for. He asks listeners to continue calling 313-RLRC-TIP, reminding everyone that there is no such thing as too much information when pursuing justice.

Woody also celebrates the release of A Mother’s Fight for Justice, written by Stephanie Belgard, Courtney Coco’s mother. The book tells Courtney’s story and Stephanie’s decade-long fight for answers and accountability from her own perspective. Woody credits Stephanie’s refusal to give up as one of the reasons Real Life Real Crime continues taking on difficult Justice For cases today. Signed copies are available directly, while Kindle, paperback, and hardcover editions are available through Amazon.

For On This Day in Crime, Woody remembers 13-year-old Mary Catherine Olchuck, whose decomposed body was discovered beneath hay on a Maine property in 1970 after she had been missing for nearly two weeks. More than five decades later, no one has been charged with her murder—another reminder that every unsolved case represents a family still waiting for justice.

Woody then gives a personal shout-out to former special prosecutor Hugo Holland, who prosecuted David Anthony Burns for Courtney Coco’s murder. Woody reflects on their early differences during the case, Holland’s courtroom performance, and why he considers him one of the strongest prosecutors he has ever watched work. Holland is now running for district judge in Louisiana’s First Judicial District.

In F’d Up Professionals, a Tennessee pastor who spent years traveling the country through his ministry is convicted of multiple counts of aggravated rape of a child and aggravated sexual battery. His wife was also convicted of facilitating sexual abuse and child neglect. Investigators say the case began with allegations involving a five-year-old child and eventually expanded to additional victims. Woody discusses how positions of trust, religious authority, language barriers, and vulnerable communities can all be exploited by predators.

Next, Woody covers the case of 16-year-old Howl Rafael Hernandez Castro, whose death was initially reported as a suicide. Investigators became suspicious when the witness’s story repeatedly changed. Detectives later found evidence inconsistent with suicide—including the distance of the shot, trajectory, and lack of gunshot residue—and the victim’s 21-year-old roommate was ultimately charged with murder. Woody connects the case directly to Justice for Hailey, where scientific evidence has likewise challenged an original suicide narrative.

In Minneapolis, police are investigating three bodies discovered in three days, all found in or near bodies of water. Authorities have not publicly said the deaths are connected, but Woody discusses why the geographical clustering immediately catches his investigative attention and why victimology and forensic findings will be critical in determining whether the cases share a connection.

The episode also covers a disturbing Florida murder case involving 16-year-old Miranda Corsett, who prosecutors say was held captive, tortured, killed, and dismembered. Defendant Stephen Gress has pleaded guilty and has taken the unusual step of asking that the judge—not a jury—decide whether he receives the death penalty. Woody compares the situation to another defendant he encountered who voluntarily sought execution rather than spend decades appealing his sentence.

Woody closes with several announcements, including plans for Real Life Real Crime to potentially host and moderate a public candidate forum in his local community. Most importantly, he again tells listeners that a major development is coming in one of the Justice For cases and asks the Lifers to hold on just a little longer.

True Crime Time, Real Life Real Crime, Woody Overton, Justice for Hailey, What Happened to Madison, Courtney Coco, Stephanie Belgard, A Mother’s Fight for Justice, Hugo Holland, Tennessee pastor, child sexual abuse, Howl Rafael Hernandez Castro, staged suicide, homicide investigation, Minneapolis bodies, possible serial killer, Miranda Corsett, Stephen Gress, death penalty, true crime podcast

• Major Justice For case development
• 313-RLRC-TIP
• Stephanie Belgard’s A Mother’s Fight for Justice
• Courtney Coco
• Mary Catherine Olchuck cold case
• Hugo Holland
• Courtney Coco prosecution
• Tennessee pastor convicted of child rape
• Abuse of positions of trust
• Teen death staged as suicide
• Justice for Hailey comparison
• Three bodies found in Minneapolis
• Possible connection between deaths
• Miranda Corsett murder
• Stephen Gress guilty plea
• Defendant requesting death penalty
• Upcoming RLRC candidate forum
• Woody says he has confirmed information that a significant justice-related development is coming, though he cannot yet reveal the case or details.
• Stephanie Belgard’s book represents more than Courtney Coco’s case—it documents what a family endured while refusing to give up on justice.
• Positions of trust, including religious leadership, can make vulnerable victims easier for predators to access and harder for victims to report.
• A death initially presented as suicide should still be investigated against the physical evidence; when the evidence does not fit the story, investigators must keep digging.
• Three deaths in a tight geographical area and short time period do not automatically establish a serial offender, but the pattern warrants careful comparison of victimology, locations, timelines, and forensic evidence.
• The recurring message throughout the episode is simple: justice often takes time, but never giving up can change the outcome.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com
* Check out Progressive: https://www.progressive.com


Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/real-life-real-crime/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

On today’s episode of True Crime Time, Woody takes a deep dive into one of the most disturbing serial killer cases in American history: Robert Hansen, the so-called Butcher Baker of Alaska. Hansen abducted, raped, and murdered women in and around Anchorage, often flying victims into remote wilderness areas where he hunted them after releasing them into the open. He ultimately confessed to 17 murders and more than 30 rapes and was sentenced to 461 years in prison without parole.

Woody traces Hansen’s early life, criminal history, repeated brushes with the justice system, and the warning signs that were missed long before he became known as one of Alaska’s most notorious killers. Hansen had already been arrested for sexual violence and other crimes before the murder spree fully emerged, yet short sentences and plea deals repeatedly returned him to the community.

The episode also examines Hansen’s pattern of targeting vulnerable women, including sex workers and teenagers, and the terrifying methods he used to control, assault, and kill them. Woody recounts the escape of Cindy Paulson, a 17-year-old victim whose survival became a major turning point in the investigation. Paulson escaped from Hansen while he was preparing his airplane and later gave police critical information about her attacker.

From there, Woody explores how investigators connected Hansen to multiple bodies found across Alaska. Detective Glenn Flothe sought help from legendary FBI profiler John Douglas, whose offender profile closely matched Hansen. Armed with Paulson’s account and the profile, authorities secured search warrants and found jewelry belonging to missing women, firearms, and an aviation map marked with dozens of X’s corresponding to known and suspected burial sites.

Woody then walks listeners through the known and suspected victims, including Eklutna Annie, Cia Van Zanten, Megan Emrick, Mary Catherine Thill, Joanna Messina, Roxanne Easland, Lisa Futrell, Mali Larsen, Sherry Morrow, Andrea Mona, Sue Luna, Tammy Peterson, Angela Fetterin, DeLynn “Sugar” Frey, Teresa Watson, Paula Golding, Cindy Paulson, and Robin Pelkey. He highlights how many of the women disappeared without immediate public attention because they were considered high-risk victims, and how some remained unidentified for decades.

The episode closes with Hansen’s eventual plea agreement, his cooperation in identifying some burial sites, and the disturbing fact that several marks on his map remained unexplained. Authorities believe the true number of victims may have been higher than the murders he admitted to. Hansen died in prison in 2014 at age 75, but the questions surrounding every unknown victim have never fully disappeared.

True Crime Time, Real Life Real Crime, Woody Overton, Robert Hansen, Butcher Baker of Alaska, Alaska serial killer, Cindy Paulson, John Douglas, FBI profiler, Anchorage murders, Eklutna Annie, Sherry Morrow, Joanna Messina, Paula Golding, cold cases, missing women, serial murder, true crime podcast

• Robert Hansen
• Butcher Baker of Alaska
• Serial murder in Anchorage
• Victim hunting in the wilderness
• Hansen’s criminal history
• Repeated justice system failures
• Cindy Paulson escape
• FBI profiling
• John Douglas
• Glenn Flothe
• Aviation map with burial sites
• Confirmed and suspected victims
• High-risk victims
• Unidentified victims
• Plea agreement and sentencing
• Hansen’s case shows how repeated failures to take earlier violence seriously can allow offenders to escalate.
• Cindy Paulson’s survival and testimony were critical to exposing Hansen and connecting him to a much larger pattern of violence.
• FBI behavioral profiling helped investigators narrow their focus and obtain the search warrants that uncovered crucial evidence.
• Victims living high-risk lifestyles are still victims and deserve the same investigative urgency, attention, and dignity as anyone else.
• The marked map and unknown burial sites suggest that some of Hansen’s victims may still remain unidentified or undiscovered.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com
* Check out Progressive: https://www.progressive.com


Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/real-life-real-crime/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy