Welcome to &#34;The Convocation Unscripted,&#34; a free-wheeling conversation between Diana Butler Bass, Kristin Du Mez, Robert P. Jones, and Jemar Tisby. We are each scholars (three historians and one sociologist) who write about religion and its intersection with culture, history, and politics in America. We also each take our own Christian faith seriously and are deeply concerned about the future of both democracy and Christianity in the U.S. Most importantly, over the years, we’ve found ourselves to be not just fellow travelers but friends. This is the video/podcast component of our unique Substack magazine &#34;The Convocation,&#34; which you can subscribe to here: https://convocation.substack.com/

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/9/4/19/f205ac8d-a08c-4f2b-9236-037f13542bd3_tcu_vid_and_pod_fixed_94.mp3

This week, TCU came to you live across multiple platforms--via the Convocation Unscripted substack plus our own individual substack platforms. In this episode, we talk about a recent interview given by J.D. Vance in which he discusses his views of the Antichrist and th end times, echoing themes from his tech bro benefactor Peter Thiel. The actual theology is internally inconsistent and somewhat incoherent, but it does reveal a disturbing world of limitless power for the few chosen ones who literally image the possibility of escaping human finitude and even death through wealth and technology. By contrast, we talk about deep biblical stories that warn against such hubris and callous disregard for the impacts of such elite aspirations on the vast majority of the rest of us. We also discussed the new books coming out from Robby (BACKSLIDE) and Kristin (LIVE LAUGH LOVE). And we took questions from the hundreds of you who joined us live, on climate change and extreme weather, the midterm elections in the US, and what these times demand for all of us. Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b...https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky...https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb...https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

What Vance and Thiel's Talk of the Antichrist and End Times Really Reveals

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/8/14/16/29757423-20af-47e8-8dd0-d15d90543297_tcu_main_814_fin.mp3

In this TCU+LIVE episode, the Convocation Unscripted team talked about the challenges of finding rest amid the ongoing assaults on our democracy and American decency--from the $100 billion spent on the unjust and unnecessary war in Iran to $20 million for new &#34;shock gloves&#34; that will be issued to ICE agents across the country, which are exactly what they sound like. Diana reminded everyone of the power of beauty and poetry, even--and especially--when they feel dissonant against the destructive background noise. Thanks to all the live subscribers who joined us with insightful questions, which lead us to wrap the conversation about the importance of building local community and connections in these critical months ahead of the challenging midterm elections.

The Important of Strengthening Community Ahead of the Midterms

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/7/31/15/2874bc46-fb04-4590-82e0-c9852bf1dd68_tcu_main_73126_v_fin.mp3

Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b...https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky...https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb...https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

The Smithsonian, the State, and the Spirit of Freedom

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/7/24/14/31b88435-45e1-4bb1-a49d-b5f02b6a929e_tcu_724_v_pod.mp3

Did you miss Steven Miller’s chilling speech at a recent counter-terrorism conference with European officials in Washington, where he evokes Nazi tropes abt the deformed physical appearance of his political enemies? The Convocation Unscripted team unpacks the dehumanizing rhetoric and the Nazi echoes we’re hearing from Trump and the MAGA movement. This is not new--Kristin and Robby each point to this dangerous rhetoric in their forthcoming books (LIVE LAUGH LOVE and BACKSLIDE)--but this rhetoric is getting louder and becoming more central to MAGA messaging. Miller&#39;s speech should be a warning bell. It&#39;s time for all of us to get beyond denial, get involved, and project a more inclusive view of the good, the true, and the beautiful that is rooted in an ethic of love rather than demonization. Follow on BlueSky: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&q=https%3A%2F%2Fbsky.app%2Fprofile%2Fjemartisby.b..&redir_token=QUM4Zm9rUUtUSjdwWDlaakZBQXlCX3lNakh0SHxBR3JiS2FrYUVlZWhCWFg1dFB5dnVfclVFRFlxY1R4d082cTJBdkdQNlcyb0JUNmZ5UWUtcXZZRjZiVFluWTI5VHBaTnVibFJ2dnpPdXoyUUZhY3hyc0Y2VS1oSWxCbFFtaU80&v=4eA1hkHCQ3A" rel="nofollow">https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b..</a>.<a href="https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&q=https%3A%2F%2Fbsky.app%2Fprofile%2Fkkdumez.bsky..&redir_token=QUM4Zm9rUjRyMnRIejROa1EwbVFXY1NxeDRYU3xBR3JiS2FtM0NTQ25qQ2VWUy1UZFFQN2dYRjJCX0ZTX3I4U1pqZGl4d09FT1FabmxVOGJCd2RJM2tJdXRHQVFrWWRzM2pwX2x6WHRFSFpmTzlTdnJZc0JEanh2Mm96alM3UEo3&v=4eA1hkHCQ3A" rel="nofollow">https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky..</a>.<a href="https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&q=https%3A%2F%2Fbsky.app%2Fprofile%2Fdianabutlerb..&redir_token=QUM4Zm9rUXVQQUVQdkV5RktwdEMtUnlKcEhlYXxBR3JiS2FrcFNjZ1pPQ2dkSk41ZmpKc1M5T2xOcE5tZDhJekhIVl8tLTIzMTAxZU1GZnFnUUIxVnJfSHZtX001bWU0cmhoTjVDWm1uNWhrTFBxalRKLTF5ZTFnckx1OVhTLTFr&v=4eA1hkHCQ3A" rel="nofollow">https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb..</a>.<a href="https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&q=https%3A%2F%2Fbsky.app%2Fprofile%2Frobertpjones..&redir_token=QUM4Zm9rUlEyN1llMU54blo4bDRvcXBoUE8wenxBR3JiS2FrWjZqYzltT3I0dTVsVXNHNngyTHoxM0RHSHpuYVFuLV8zNDB2X0ZNSGxZVGhRRGQ5MHVlQTk0R2dCMGk1clhUNnU3SEVON3ZvS25LS0diQmEtczBfNjZwdmNHTkhC&v=4eA1hkHCQ3A" rel="nofollow">https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones..</a>. Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

Why Steven Miller's Chilling Speech Matters

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/7/17/16/3421975c-d495-4c7c-ba4f-9fca1a31a5cc_tcu_717_v_fin.mp3

ICE has killed two more innocent people in our streets. Despite public outcry, ICE continues to kill while wearing masks and not wearing body cams. We cannot be numb to this reality--that our own government is killing people with impunity. If we care about the rule of law, family values, and the integrity of law enforcement, we must recognize these acts as a direct assault on these principles and values. Instead of reassessing these outrages, President Trump has urged ICE on and Tom Homan has promised more bloodshed. We call these out as bright moral lines that have been crossed and emphasize the importance of not normalizing this violent behavior by our own government. We also look ahead to Trump&#39;s national address on the integrity of U.S. elections and talk about the head spinning fact that nearly two-thirds of Republicans continue to believe that the 2020 election was stolen from Trump (while simultaneously believing that the 2024 election was fine). We warn that the declaration of an imaginary emergency is the likely action that will set the table for undermining the integrity of the midterm elections.Follow on BlueSky: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&q=https%3A%2F%2Fbsky.app%2Fprofile%2Fjemartisby.b..&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbHo3NkZoSFk5dTBJWUlwQ0dPcEd4bEk4VU5Cd3xBQ3Jtc0tsWkxtMEZUNHFzYzFuTW16NHdGMV9SWHRISk1WUVFIM0hndXZGOTVuNm53cXdha3dvbVBSeVFKVmhEYmV5RnhzTjdPTi1pbFpqYTJUZll2NVFTVHplVlBvVVJUNG50eXZxRlg4eGpPSXM4dFprVmN5aw&v=4eA1hkHCQ3A" rel="nofollow">https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b..</a>.<a href="https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&q=https%3A%2F%2Fbsky.app%2Fprofile%2Fkkdumez.bsky..&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbFhYSk9yNnVQTmdVX3FGWVNaNzdpOVhsbTZmUXxBQ3Jtc0trbnppUmFqbUVkNzBqTU11cVVtUjY1TDIzaUtHRFZRNk1LTXRmSzdaT3p0Z2Rkbm0wTmdjOWNIX3hNTFRiSzBLRmpQNXM2UmVxZVc0dTE5Q1UyYTJoV2ZzVU9uS0x6Z01DMU1KZ19EUU9mWG95V2RxRQ&v=4eA1hkHCQ3A" rel="nofollow">https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky..</a>.<a href="https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&q=https%3A%2F%2Fbsky.app%2Fprofile%2Fdianabutlerb..&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbHBYdDVYbEJtN2VCTHpDX3UyeThnNWZEYm5Hd3xBQ3Jtc0tuZmNCX25xM2xnQWhYRHRqVWJQSkpmdVdkc0JGSkxDUmNQdW1qOTlxMXoyaTd3b3ZQeW9ZN1J6a0pscVdRTWpudi1nRXFubzEtV3NLRFhXVHdLcGRNSnlIS0drcnNCWjhCOEpsNXRaTExITmluVWxtWQ&v=4eA1hkHCQ3A" rel="nofollow">https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb..</a>.<a href="https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&q=https%3A%2F%2Fbsky.app%2Fprofile%2Frobertpjones..&redir_token=QUFFLUhqa1hHSVY4bWFvR3pYOEZURW1fNzFSamZNbGRaQXxBQ3Jtc0tuN3FzV1Q0OHFrbVhvemRZMnYxZ2FhZVdrQ2xYYUZLbkgzUE1tUWFtcVlTRHFFUnVjUTcxLUtFVXhKN3lyRjM5WWg1SVR1akoyUU5zenVIamg0MUo5TUpDaVhnQVIzdmVkVjFLQ3pXM2U0YVZuQ2REWQ&v=4eA1hkHCQ3A" rel="nofollow">https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones..</a>. Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

ICE is Killing Innocent People in Our Streets

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/7/10/14/e80f2651-5719-4bfd-a2ba-11f8117c1700_tcu_pod_71026.mp3

This week, we reflect on the anticlimactic America250 celebrations in Washington, DC, and around the country. We also talked about the tragic, suspicious death of African American 18-year-old Nolan Xavier Wells, whose body was found after he disappeared during a boat trip with a group of white friends on Horn Island over the Fourth of July weekend, and why so many Black Americans are reacting differently than white Americans to this story. Finally, we talk about the mainstreaming of Doug Wilson, an extremist self-described Christian nationalist who leads a small denomination of churches to which Pete Hegseth belongs. In the past year, he&#39;s landed high-profile interviews from CNN, New York Times, and most recently NPR. But his rising influence is mostly due to the failure of mainstream white evangelicalism to defend itself from incursions from the far right. Today, mainstream white evangelical leaders are not only failing to condemn his dangerous, illiberal views, they are inviting him into their circles and joining him on his own platforms. If we needed one more piece of evidence of the complete moral and theological collapse of the white evangelical world, the embrace of Wilson is it. Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b...https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky...https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb...https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

The Mainstreaming of Doug Wilson, Self-Described Christian Deceiver

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/7/3/20/2ae4e573-f9f2-4fdb-a055-635a992d270c_tcu_7326_v_pod.mp3

Independence Day EditionFollow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b...https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky...https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb...https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones...Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

TCU+Live: Your Questions on Religion and Politics Answered

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/6/26/21/16e6600e-4509-4c4d-b834-486887d367a7_tcu_pod_audio_v_626.mp3

This week, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld President Trump’s order to remove Temporary Protected Status from hundreds of thousands of Haitian and Syrian immigrants. The lead opinion, written by Justice Alito, declared that Trump’s derogatory language about these groups (“they’re eating the pets”) and their country of origin (“sh*thole countries”) was not “OVERTLY” racist and therefore not a factor in discerning his motivation for the order. Justice Sotomayor, in a blistering dissent, declared that “the references—of filth, disease, and primitiveness—are shot through with racial stereotypes.” Meanwhile, Trump is giving white South African refugees welcome bags with a PragerU children’s book on so-called reverse racism, and a document that defends the country’s founding on slavery. We talk about how these moves violate not only basic moral decency but Christian teaching about treating immigrants with hospitality and respect and, well, just not bearing false witness against your neighbor. We close by reminding listeners of the need to pay attention to the bright lines being crossed and to not cede the flag or patriotism to the Christian nationalists who distort their meaning. Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b...https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky...https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb...https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

SCOTUS Declares Trump Not "Overtly" Racist

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/6/19/20/7608de8e-0104-4687-a540-6d4ba4a19d4b_tcu_618_v_fin.mp3

This week, the Convocation Unscripted team talk about the implications of the silencing of women’s voices in the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) and the erasure of women’s voices in the New Testament. On the even of Juneteenth, we also discuss the importance of embracing Juneteenth as our newest federal holiday, and the power of commemorating that holiday alongside Independence Day, which falls just 15 days later. And we wrap by reflecting on the findings of the latest survey, which shows that the loud voices of Christian nationalism only represent about three in ten Americans. Two thirds of our fellow citizens still embrace the ideals of a racially and religiously pluralistic America. Follow on BlueSky: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&q=https%3A%2F%2Fbsky.app%2Fprofile%2Fjemartisby.b..&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbmpuaE5xYzhSVm9rbFFDNDlqV2Q4VW5OOV9pd3xBQ3Jtc0tuRUtFYVpXQktGUHJLSXhnYmlxQlRzQTUzOVpzdk42alJFbW5Pc2ZmTm12c0tnRnBGT2Y5dExJZmdIQlVlck5FYnM4bGVVWjF0bUxOcTF6ZHpjOFFhM3BzSk40cFFIeDFkQzdEUDM3am0xbmI4ZndBNA&v=L3-UQB-iGtc" rel="nofollow">https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b..</a>.<a href="https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&q=https%3A%2F%2Fbsky.app%2Fprofile%2Fkkdumez.bsky..&redir_token=QUFFLUhqa3RLZmhMNHlxUlh3dkNwVkpYUTFld3RWcUpKUXxBQ3Jtc0ttdHVFYkp2SXlwMTV1MTRvMFVSc290UUZONG5GSlUtUGtSU0NCV1RfSmhtR0hFWHVzX05ZVWt3cHdwVTNjeDdRTFJZRG5vbU1KU1JEWEtQNnlxNUR0UlBzQUhpUXVIamN1cGdmVkFKeVdnZkM5T21mVQ&v=L3-UQB-iGtc" rel="nofollow">https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky..</a>.<a href="https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&q=https%3A%2F%2Fbsky.app%2Fprofile%2Fdianabutlerb..&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbDVORlYyUEt6Z0Jnc1cxU0JHMDZhRFFzZHRnd3xBQ3Jtc0ttN3JNakdvb1VRT3ZMOUF4Yzh1UVRTcHoxaF8xRW91c3FlS2tESG1JU0dUMXV3bzNJR21XZzZsOUswTHVaVTA2Z04tZ0Y5WldxYzI1YjJ6ZnZaNk5mY0RGb2xMNUx5aEdGRTR2VzNoSElNUmhFQXJLMA&v=L3-UQB-iGtc" rel="nofollow">https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb..</a>.<a href="https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&q=https%3A%2F%2Fbsky.app%2Fprofile%2Frobertpjones..&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbS11WjJPV1BFVzc2U3NDNWRjQWZEbWpOeFpwUXxBQ3Jtc0ttQUhNWllaUjVjc05UNk1JSGpnMEw4c1M1Qms1TzRrMWIwbVJrMHFnWGc4WlN6b3ZQOHNjczNsTlJFSlB1QjZ3TjVDcEhlS0VfTGE4aUlDdmxwTzRPUTQtdm5RVXpmRzBCUHZuOWcyajV5MVlUYUF4MA&v=L3-UQB-iGtc" rel="nofollow">https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones..</a>. Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

Listening to the Testimony of Women and Black Americans in the Church and the Country

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/6/6/1/d32e4d1f-aa33-423d-9415-8ab995d2a87b_tcu_6526.mp3

Because it’s the first week of the month, this week’s Convocation Unscripted episode was live. We talked about the latest happenings in the world of religion and politics: the drastic narrowing of officially recognized religions within the Department of Defense, the further politicization of the civil service by the Trump administration, and moral bright lines being crossed that we must continue to see and resist. And we answered your questions for the second half of the show. Hope you’ll tune in if you missed it! It was lively as always. Thanks so much for reading, listening, and supporting our work. Subscribe: Convocation.Substack.com Follow on BlueSky:https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b...https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky...https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb...https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack:The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/5/29/19/1469d444-d8b3-47f0-be90-096e3994328a_tcu_529_v_pod.mp3

In this episode, we talk about the broad interdisciplinary research across the humanities and social sciences that has converged to establish the clear threat of Christian nationalism to pluralistic democracy, both here and across Europe. From the headlines, we also discuss the surprising victory by scandal-laden Ken Paxton over Sen. John Cornyn in the Republican primary race in Texas. The coming showdown between Paxton and Democratic nominee James Talarico promises not only to be the most expensive senate campaign in American history but also a clear contest between two visions of religion and the nation: Christian nationalism from Paxton and faith-infused support for pluralistic democracy by Talarico. In this race and so many others, we’ll be sure to see the Christian nationalist tactic of literally demonizing political opponents—a practice that destroys democratic ideals, short circuits moral thinking, and distorts Christian theology. Subscribe: Convocation.Substack.com Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b...https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky...https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb...https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com Subscribe: Convocation.Substack.com Follow on BlueSky:https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b...https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky...https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb...https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack:The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

Christian Nationalism, Demonization, and the End of Moral Politics

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/5/22/14/2e3322db-d08d-46d9-b936-2a559157fb89_tcu_522_v_pod.mp3

In this episode of The Convocation Unscripted, we wrestle in real time with two competing visions of America unfolding side-by-side. On one hand, we discuss the “Rededicate 250” event and the growing effort to frame the United States as a distinctly Christian nation rooted in white Christian nationalist mythology. On the other hand, we reflect on “All Roads Lead to the South,” a contemporary voting rights pilgrimage through Montgomery and Selma that reminds us democracy has always required organized resistance, moral courage, and collective action.We connect the current political moment to deeper historical currents: the dismantling of the Voting Rights Act, the myth of “Christian America,” the weaponization of religious liberty rhetoric, and the ways memory and public history shape our understanding of democracy itself. Along the way, we talk about political performance art in Washington, DC, the emotional and spiritual weight of visiting civil rights landmarks, and why this moment increasingly feels like the Civil Rights Movement of our generation.As always, this conversation is unscripted, historically grounded, and deeply engaged with the urgent questions shaping religion, culture, and politics in America today.<h3>In This Episode We Discuss:</h3><ul><li>The Supreme Court’s continued dismantling of voting rights protections</li><li>The significance of Selma, Montgomery, and “All Roads Lead to the South”</li><li>The “Rededicate 250” event and the resurgence of Christian nationalist rhetoric</li><li>The myth of “Christian America” and why it remains politically powerful</li><li>How public memory and historical storytelling shape democracy</li><li>Political performance art, protest, and creative resistance</li><li>The difference between patriotism and nationalism</li><li>Why this political moment echoes earlier struggles for civil rights and democratic participation</li></ul><h3>Books Referenced</h3><ul><li>The Search for Christian America by Mark Noll, Nathan Hatch, and George Marsden</li></ul>Subscribe to <a href="https://convocation.substack.com/?utm_source=chatgpt.com" rel="nofollow">The Convocation Unscripted on Substack</a> for weekly conversations at the intersection of faith, politics, history, and culture. You can also follow the individual work of <a href="http://redeemingdemocracy.net/" rel="nofollow">Robby Jones</a>, <a href="https://jemartisby.substack.com/?utm_source=chatgpt.com" rel="nofollow">Jemar Tisby</a>, <a href="https://kristindumez.substack.com/?utm_source=chatgpt.com" rel="nofollow">Kristin Du Mez</a>, and <a href="https://dianabutlerbass.substack.com/?utm_source=chatgpt.com" rel="nofollow">Diana Butler Bass</a>.

Rededicate 250, Selma, and the Future of American Democracy

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/5/15/15/097e3676-5f64-488a-b8e4-cef4e6c131ee_tcu_515_v_pod.mp3

This week, we talk about the dismay our friends in Canada and other nations are expressing about the decline of America as a good neighbor. We also talk about two events that are taking place this weekend: 1) Jemar is attending the “All Roads Lead to the South” event, a day of action in Selma in response to the dismantling of the voting rights act; and 2) Robby is attending the Trump administration’s Christian nationalist event called “Rededicate 250” that is taking place this Sunday on the National mall in Washington, DC. Diana gives some hopeful examples of how Virginia, home to the former capitol of the Confederacy, is honestly facing the troubling parts of its past while illuminating a new path forward. Subscribe: Convocation.Substack.com Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b...https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky...https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb...https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

The Decline of America as a Good Neighbor

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/5/8/19/3fbaf504-3a3e-4748-a42a-9bf188c7c46b_tcu_pod_v_fin.mp3

In this live episode, we talk about the hollowing out of the Voting Rights Act that the U.S. Supreme Court has accomplished with its recent LOUISIANA v. CALLAIS ET AL. ruling. The court’s conservative majority found that the Louisiana district represented by Democrat Cleo Fields relied too heavily on race. In its wake, a number of southern states with white Republican-dominated legislatures have raced to redraw their electoral maps to further dilute the power of African American voters. We talk about the perfect storm of the erasure of history, faulty logic, and gaslighting that is turning the clock back on voting rights for Black Americans and what we can do in response. And we took viewers questions on a wide range of topics in the last half of the show. Subscribe: Convocation.Substack.com Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b...https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky...https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb...https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

Gerrymandering Our Way Back to Jim Crow

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The White House released a report on so-called “anti-Christian bias.” But who counts as Christian in these claims?Diana, Kristin, and Jemar discuss how this regime is narrowing the definition of Christianity to a particular ideological and political express, while positioning that version as under threat.This is not about defending religious freedom, it’s about reframing power as persecution.Then we turn to the Voting Rights Act and how the latest decision from the conservative majority on the Supreme Court renders it all but a dead letter law.The justices’ claim to colorblindness actually ignores the historical conditions that made an intervention like the VRA necessary in the first place. The ruling is part of a pattern on the far-right to view structures built to address racial inequality as unfair while leaving the inequalities themselves in place.Subscribe: <a href="http://convocation.substack.com/" rel="nofollow">Convocation.Substack.com</a>   Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b...https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky...https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb...https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

“Anti-Christian Bias” and the War on Voting Rights

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/4/24/15/a81760e5-0f5a-47f9-aef6-17c4d81849f1_tcu_424_v_pod.mp3

In this week&#39;s episode of TCU, we talk about Trump&#39;s participation in a public reading of the Bible, sponsored by a white evangelical group, where he read II Chronicles 7:14, a favorite of Christian nationalists. We also talk about the continued platforming of self-described Christian nationalist, &#34;paleo-Confederate&#34; pastor Doug Wilson not only by the likes of Pete Hegseth but by more mainstream outlets in the evangelical world. But we also review his recent dressing down by Wajahat Ali on the Piers Morgan show. Finally, we talk about the ways local churches are banding together to advocate for and serve immigrants who have been wrongfully detained by ICE. Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b...https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky...https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb...https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

Trump Reads the Bible, Doug Wilson Falls Flat, and Churches Step Up

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/4/17/21/79584558-fccf-485c-84f2-49d353369e0b_tcu_417_v_pod.mp3

On parallel channels over the last two weeks, we’ve witnessed Hegseth’s dangerous holy war rants, Vance’s arrogant lecturing Pope Leo XIV on Catholic theology, and Trump’s direct attacks on the pope, followed by an unhinged promotion of an AI image of himself as Jesus. Just typical post-Easter weeks in the MAGA era. In this week&#39;s Convocation Unscripted, we were joined LIVE by nearly 300 in TCU community. Tune in to hear a rich conversation based on your questions. Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b...https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky...https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb...https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

Trump's Attacks on Pope Leo XIV, Posing as Jesus

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/3/27/20/57ba1b91-6d12-45c6-9d92-f2dc75c6131c_tcu_327_v_pod.mp3

On this episode, the Convocation team talks about the large new survey by that demonstrates that most Americans want a more humane approach to immigration policy and do not support indiscriminate mass deportation, the construction of concentration camps on U.S. soil, and the increasingly aggressive and violent tactics of ICE. Jemar gives a preview of his new short documentary, “Jesus Was a Migrant.” For the film, he traveled to the U.S.-Mexico border to examine the theological crisis at the heart of American Christianity — and what it means when a nation built on faith turns its back on the most vulnerable. We wrap with theological reflections about the abandonment of any pretense of trying to make government humane by this administration in both domestic and foreign policy. Follow on BlueSky:https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b...https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky...https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb...https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack:The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

Humanity vs. Brutality Amid Trump's Immigration Crackdown

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/3/20/19/44eeac1a-0620-4ccc-8422-6e7f608a4127_tcu_320_v_pod.mp3

On this episode we talk about the recent bombshell story from the New York Times, “Cesar Chavez, a Civil Rights Icon, Is Accused of Abusing Girls for Years.” We note that these stories of men abusing women and children cut across ideology and reflect a broader brokenness in our culture. But we note that one thing that matters always: how institutions react when these kinds of credible, corroborated allegations come to light. Do they take them seriously or protect the powerful men at the top. We also talk about the new Varieties of Democracy (full V-Dem report here) that shows the massive decline in the United States as a liberal democracy over the past year under the Trump administration, which has by these metrics wiped out 60 years of democratic progress. Finally, we talk about the Republican push to pass the so-called SAVE Act, whose draconian voter identification measures would dramatically restrict the ability especially of women to vote. Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b...https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky...https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb...https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

Cesar Chavez, Reckoning, and Democratic Backsliding

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/pod-public-media-files/2026/3/13/20/adbc5edf-0c72-4c46-b8f9-85ef26afff94_tcu_audio_pod_313_v_fin.mp3

This week, we open the conversation with reflections on the challenges of living daily life amid the onslaught of horrific news, so often these days instigated by our own government. We reflect on normalcy—focusing on daily tasks of caring for family, tending friendships, and connecting with local community—as a mode of resistance. We then turn to address the war in Iran, particularly how Pete Hegseth and the Trump administration are glorifying domination and violence itself through their rhetoric and recent propaganda videos officially released by the White House. And we discuss the administration&#39;s utter lack of moral justification for the war, including how Trump has failed virtually all criteria from the just war theory tradition in Christian ethics—as two prominent American Catholic cardinals pointed out this week. Follow on BlueSky:https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b...https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky...https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb...https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack:The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

Normalcy and Resistance Amid an Unjust War

Conversations on Faith, Culture, and Politics

Welcome to "The Convocation Unscripted," a free-wheeling conversation between Diana Butler Bass, Kristin Du Mez, Robert P. Jones, and Jemar Tisby. We are each scholars (three historians and one sociologist) who write about religion and its intersection with culture, history, and politics in America. We also each take our own Christian faith seriously and are deeply concerned about the future of both democracy and Christianity in the U.S. Most importantly, over the years, we’ve found ourselves to be not just fellow travelers but friends. This is the video/podcast component of our unique Substack magazine "The Convocation," which you can subscribe to here: https://convocation.substack.com/